Why There Will Never Be Reconciliation Between The Roman Catholic System And The Christian Church

No, there cannot be any 'reconciliation' between Roman Catholic system and the true Christian Church, the Body of Christ, because Rome was never a part of it. It started out as a pagan organization in 325 AD, and though they have adopted many of the Christian buzzwords like talking about "being born again' and 'salvation by grace through faith alone', they are like the wolf in the hen house wearing a chicken mask, pecking at corn and trying to blend in.

Rome was always the enemy of the Christians, and spent over 3 centuries putting them to death by various forms of executions and torture.

“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.” 1 Timothy 4:1-3 (KJV)

Everywhere you turn today, religious leaders of all stripes, persuasions and genders are talking about Christians ‘reconciling’ with the Roman Catholic Church. Pope Francis and the Catholic Church, for their part, are lying in wait to receive them with open arms. Parties on both sides are claiming that ‘in the spirit of love and tolerance’ that there ‘must be unity’ within the Body of Christ. Now, I agree that there should be harmony within the Body of Christ as much as possible. But I also agree that the Catholic Church is a false system masquerading as Christianity, not part of the Body of Christ, and therefore there is nothing to be reconciled to.

They are called the Roman Catholic Church

The first point I want to bring up is the fact that they are not a Christian organization. When I was a kid growing up Catholic, whenever we met someone new we would ask them “are you Catholic or Christian?”. The Catholic Church used to teach and focus on that difference back in the 1960’s and ’70’s. Those of you who are Catholics know exactly what I’m talking about. We were not primarily Christian, we were Catholics. The Bible was not our guide, the Pope was. His ‘holy utterances’ like the divinity of Mary were received as infallible. We didn’t confess our sins to God, we confessed them to a priest. As Catholics, when we needed spiritual help we didn’t go straight to Jesus, we went to His earthly mother, Mary. We did these things because we were Roman Catholics first and foremost.

Pope Francis’ Message to Kenneth Copeland Ministries, Calling for Unity in the Body of Christ:

With his soft mumbling and thick accent, Pope Francis comes across as a loving, old grandfather who just wants to cuddle you. But don’t be fooled, Francis is a false prophet, a false teacher, looking to perform another takeover of Christianity ala 325 AD.

Thier very name, the Roman Catholic Church, tells you that they are not Christian. Rome was always the enemy of the Christians, and spent over 3 centuries putting them to death by various forms of executions and torture. They tell you that the word ‘catholic’ means ‘universal’, and that’s a total lie. ‘Catholic’, like ‘workaholic’, ‘chocoholic’ and ‘alcoholic’, is a compound word that looks like this: cat/holic. A quick trip to dictionary.com for a definition of ‘holic’ tells you that it is ‘indicating a person having an abnormal desire for or dependence on’ whatever the first part of the word is. So a ‘Catholic’ is someone who is dependent on or given over to cats. Sounds funny I know, but when you realize that the roots of the Catholic Church run deep in ancient Egypt and Babylon, where cats were worshipped, then things start to make a lot of sense. For more on the truth of the origins of the Catholic Church, click here.

Pagan Rome created the Catholic Church as a hostile takeover of Christianity

It was in the year 325 AD that the Emperor Constantine created what became known as the Catholic Church. For the first 280 years of Christian history, Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine provided religious toleration with the Edict of Milan in AD 313, effectively lifting the ban on Christianity. Later, in AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire, which at that time was beginning to fragment and divide. While this may have seemed to be a positive development for the Christian church, the results were anything but positive. Just as Constantine refused to fully embrace the Christian faith, but continued many of his pagan beliefs and practices, so the Christian church that Constantine promoted was a mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism.

Tony Palmer preaching that ‘we are all Catholics now’ at Kenneth Copeland’s church:

Watch this one all the way through if you have the stomach for it. Highlights include Kenneth Copeland channeling Satan after pledging his church to Rome.

The origin of the Catholic Church is the tragic compromise of Christianity with the pagan religions that surrounded it. Instead of proclaiming the gospel and converting the pagans, the Catholic Church “Christianized” the pagan religions, and “paganized” Christianity. By blurring the differences and erasing the distinctions, yes, the Catholic Church made itself attractive to the people of the Roman Empire. One result was the Catholic Church becoming the supreme religion in the Roman world for centuries. However, another result was the most dominant form of Christianity apostatizing from the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the true proclamation of God’s Word.

Chrislam founder Rick Warren calls Francis ‘our Pope’ in interview with Catholic news agency:

Rick Warren, the ultimate wolf in Christian sheep’s clothing, is a spokesman for the Vatican helping them to unite Christians and Muslims under the banner of the Vatican.

It was shortly after this point in history that what used to be called in school as the Dark Ages began. Rome stopped being a political empire and became a pagan papal empire. Biblical Christianity would not be seen again until the Protestant Reformation broke free of the pagan shackles of Rome and stepped out into the light. Rome’s answer to this was three centuries of violence and bloodshed in the Spanish Inquisition. In 2016, they are again taking another stab at enveloping the current Laodicean Church into the arms of Mother Rome.

The Roman Catholic system has always been and will always be a pagan form of religion

In conclusion, no, there cannot be any ‘reconciliation’ between Roman Catholic system and the true Christian Church, the Body of Christ, because Rome was never a part of it. It started out as a pagan organization in 325 AD, and though they have adopted many of the Christian buzzwords like talking about “being born again’ and ‘salvation by grace through faith alone’, they are like the wolf in the hen house wearing a chicken mask, pecking at corn and trying to blend in.

“So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” Revelation 17:3-5 (KJV)

Charismatics, Pentecostals and the Emergent Church are running full speed towards uniting with the Roman harlot. They do this because they have no grounding in doctrinal Bible teachings which were written to prevent this. Revelation 17 and 18 clearly show you the true Satanic nature of the Roman Catholic Church, and what her soon coming end will be.

I was a Catholic, and the Lord saved me back in 1990 when through the pages of an open King James Bible I made the ‘great transaction‘ and became born again. I am sure there are many saved Catholics despite the false, pagan teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, but the Roman church was never Christian, and never will be. Instead of reconciliation, we invite you Catholics to come on out of the woman who rides the beast.

Let’s let the Bible have the last word on this subject:

“And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” Revelation 18:4 (KJV)


NTEB is run by end times author and editor-in-chief Geoffrey Grider. Geoffrey runs a successful web design company, and is a full-time minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. In addition to running NOW THE END BEGINS, he has a dynamic street preaching outreach and tract ministry team in Saint Augustine, FL.

  • FrancesEve Drake

    Baptized and confirmed an RC. Ran like a bat out of He and two hockey sticks long time before I was born again. Frauds, liars, deceivers. Have nothing to do with this pope. I hate it that he shares the same name that I do!

    • Tony

      Did you know that, as Catholics, we believe that we are born again at Baptism just as outlined in the Sacred Scriptures?

      • Ron

        Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

        Don’t see any Baptism here and based on what you are saying it would be before Salvation happens and it does not.

  • I was raised Catholic. Baptized, Confirmed,Altar Boy in the Latin Mass, spent 9 years in Catholic Schools. At age 18, in The Navy, I quit going to Catholic Church…I wandered in Sin, and at the age of 44 years, I went to a Revival Service, and felt conviction fall upon my heart, and surrendered under The leading of The Holy Ghost, that was 29 years ago, this October.
    During that span, I spent 3 years living in the Philippines and witnessed to hundreds of Catholics and others, and many came unto Jesus.I stayed there 3 years before coming back to the Church in Florida where I met Jesus. God has used me, and placed in my heart a desire to serve only him, and live with him forever someday with Brothers and Sisters of like precious faith.

    I am the only one in my Family God called out..The Rest are still in The Catholic Church, and although they are a “Family” the real family are those who Repent, getting Water Baptism by total submersion, and are dedicated to our dearest Jesus..

    • Larry/vietnamvet1971

      Praise GOD….good to hear your testimony and seeing the Light……..for JESUS & GOD the Father has called us out of Spiritual darkness into the Glorious Light of His Dear Son.


    • Tony

      Did you know that we meet Jesus when we receive Him in the Blessed Sacrament? That is far better than any sermon or any revival song.
      Where, in Scripture, does it say that Baptism has to be by total submersion?

      • Ron

        Know we don’t. We meet Jesus The moment we repent of our sins, Believe He died on the cross for our sins ask Him to forgive us of our sins, and ask him into our life.

        Just remember The door to our Heart Has the handle on the Inside and we must invite Him in by the above, after that He lives in us who have believed.

        1 Corinthians 11:24-30 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

        After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood:

        this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup,

        ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord,

        unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself,

        and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth

        and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

        For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

        Jesus gave this to do in remembrance of Him.

    • joe

      I’m happy for you.Thank God you saw the light, renounciation of sin and acceptance of Jesus christ as Lord and personal saviour is what makes one a child of God.Please remain free from sin and consistently live a life of holiness to meet with the Lord in the air when He comes to rapture the saints.

  • averagjo

    http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/John-1-3/ I think this particular passage speaks very clearly of where the disconnect is.

  • Pop

    Mr. Grider, You are An Uneducated opinionated ASSm of Major Proportions.

    • Maybe so, but the Roman Catholic Church is still the Whore of Babylon, and God will destroy her one day.

      • Ole Ingvar

        And God’s ppl will say “Amen” to this 😀 .

      • terri Hoop

        I agree. I was never RC but my grandfather was and I went an average of 2 x a month from 2nd grade until 1984 and you know one thing I noticed is that the RC church NEVER gives the invitation to accept Christ and before I found the church I go to now I would use that as a standard if they are a true Christian church or not. There are other differences that I questioned as I got older maybe not dragged down the RC church as I became a Christian thru Good News club in Oregon and I always wondered cause what I saw and heard did not conform with the Bible and that is how we are to decide if a church believes truly by comparing what they say and do to the Bible

      • Tony

        What is your proof that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon?

  • Pingback: Why There Will Never Be Reconciliation Between The Roman Catholic System And The Christian Church – Conspiracy Realism()

    • Jared

      The catholics are pagan? How many “real christians” celebrate christmas and easter? Turns out those are pagan holidays too originally.

  • Ron

    They are just dying to get their One World Religion in place.

  • Ellen

    Christianity may not have been “seen” in the mainstream, but there have always been pockets of true Christians throughout the centuries. They just had to remain more hidden. Part of my family descends from the waldensians, who you probably know, were some of the most persecuted Christians ever. Most of the rest of my family were Italian Catholics who after coming to America got saved and started a Church in St Louis for mostly Italian immigrants that were coming out of the Catholic system. They were surrounded by Catholics and were very persecuted by them even here in American.

    • Sola Scriptura

      The Waldendians were very brave and were frequently martyred for hidung the Antioch manuscripts ( aka the Textus Receptus, which Erasmus, Tyndale, Coverdale, Luther, Matthews, The puritans and the 47 Kjv committee members all used to translate the bible into English or German) in the mountains of Europe…from the Catholics of course. The Catholics hated them for not joining the church and for preserving the unaltered word of God. Their legacy remains strong. I bet you have some good family stories.

      • Tony

        Did you also know that the Waldendians rejected Marriage and thought that it was evil? Is that what “true” Christians believe?

        • Ron

          No I believe that at all Tony. I believe a marriage has been given to Us by God and no one has any right to redefine what God said.

          They have the free will to change the definition of marriage, but the consequences of doing such will be dire if they don’t repent….

          Here is what God said and ALL True Christians believe it to be so…..

          Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
          Man and Woman.

          • Corni

            It feels right to say that the RC has edit SO much of the bible, they sure has edit it to their liking. And to form their twist cult, they have remove the most sacred piece of information. Marriage: love between soul mates where only God marries us. King Solomon is a reference to that divine love.

          • Ron

            Amen Corni Amen!

    • Elaine

      I look forward to reading more about you and your descendants. I’ve read about the Waldensian s, very brave Christians. It’s a pleasure to meet you.

      God Bless!

  • I have thought for a long time that it is a false church for many of the same reasons you stated. I have been taught that there is not anything wrong with wanting to be water baptized but it is not a part of salvation which is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you will be saved. Acts 1:4 speaking to the apostles, do no leave Jerusaem, but wait for what the Father promised. Verse 5 states John baptized with water, Bunin a few days you will be baptized with the Holt Spirit. That happened on the day of Pentecost a Chapter 2. So after Pentecost every person who believes in Jesus for salvation is baptized with the Holy Spirit. When we add anything to the salvation work of Christ we are not doing what He says. After salvation 1John1:8-10 tells us we sin & will until we die & when we sin we loose the Filling of the Holy Spirit, but v.9 says if we confess our sins He is faithful & just (because He has already paid for our sin) to forgive our sin & cleanse us of all unrighteousness (those sins we have forgotten or not known they were sin). We will have to use that verse until we die if we want to be in fellowship with the Father, Son& Holy Spirit. Really enjoy all of your messages.

    • Have to disagree with you regarding Water Baptism, Jesus commanded us to be Water Baptized.

      First, read Where Jesus himself, as our example was Water Baptized by John The Baptist, in the river.

      Next, Jesus told Nicodemus in John Chapter 3, to be Baptized in WATER AND SPIRIT. The Very same thing he himself did in The River as our example.

      In Acts 8 verses 36-38 Apostle Philip Water Baptizes the Ethiopian Eunich down into the Water….In Acts 10 verses 43-48 they were commanded by Apostle Peter to be Water Baptized.

      Total Immersion in Water, is Symbolic of The Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Jesus himself at Calvary:

      (1) We Repent, and our old sin nature “DIES” (2) WE are “Buried” in Water Baptism and our sins are washed away,
      (3) We “Resurrect” to a New Life in Christ.

      • GRACE

        Faith in Christ alone is what is required, a person on their death bed that turns to Christ is no less saved than the one who lived his or her entire life saved and has been baptised. I felt led to be baptised two weeks after accepting Christ but baptism didn’t save me, only my faith in Christ did, baptism was an outward declaration to the church I attended at that time that I had become a believer in Christ and He alone. The blood of Jesus cleanses one from sin.

        • Tony

          If Baptism does not save you then are we do reject 1 Pet. 3:20-21?

          • Ron

            1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

            I am not going to explain it, it speaks for itself and…..

            1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

      • Ron

        Bro Rick Why don’t people like you write the complete scripture and then you say:
        Bro Rick Quote: Next, Jesus told Nicodemus in John Chapter 3, to be Baptized in WATER AND SPIRIT. The Very same thing he himself did in The River as our example.:End Quote
        John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
        This might stir up a hornet’s nest but I read it for what it is:
        A man is encased in water in the womb so we are born of water. Notice the order as well if it were water Baptism then that order above would be reversed.
        You don’t get baptized in water to bring Jesus Christ’s Spirit into you. what does the Scripture say on that…
        Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
        Where is The Baptism in That Scripture right there that tells us we must be Baptised as well
        IT DOES NOT.
        Now I can’t say specifically the reason Jesus Said that about the water part but it was to show it was for man only but I also believe it has to do with the fact that Salvation cannot come to the angels who have fallen or may have to do with The Nephillum in Genesis 6. The Nephillim were spirit beings and anything they procreated down here was an abomination to God this is why there were only 8 people saved in the flood because they were the only ones not contaminated in their Human DNA.

        Baptism is a Public Confession of already being saved and being willingly proud to Identify with Him.
        It is a Picture of Us burying our old self crucified with Christ and then Being Resurrected with Him in His likeness having our sins being buried.
        Your (1) We Repent, and our old sin nature “DIES” after Romans 10:9 and 10:10
        (2) WE are “Buried” in Water Baptism and our sins are washed away is Symbolic in Baptism
        and again “our sins are washed away” happens at Romans 10:9 and 10:10
        (3) We “Resurrect” to a New Life in Christ. is Symbolic in Baptism

        Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

        When I got saved I didn’t get Baptized until 1 year after the fact and I had this guy at work keep telling me ( sadly I still smoked cigarettes ) you have to be baptized to be saved I told him that is not true. Then he tried to point out to me that I couldn’t be because I smoked and I said anyone who is saved is a work in progress until he gets to Heaven. Then he kept bugging me to come to his “cult” church the whole church fled a city in SC to go to Charleston and they were on the news because of it. Naturally patting themselves on the back because of it because they were being persecuted.
        Finally I had it with this Guy at work and said do you believe the whole Bible he said yes. I said how about this..
        I was Saved before I ever got Baptized and it is just a public confession of Christ and then I said word for word
        1 John 4:1-3 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
        After I quoted I John chapter 4:1 to 3
        I then said word for word: “I confess that Jesus Christ is come in the Flesh!”
        Now let me hear your confession about Jesus Christ.
        His face turned beat red with embarassment and he could not say a word
        and then I said that’s what I thought you false prophet.
        He never spoke to me again God had shut his mouth and he quit where I worked a day or two later.

        • RON
          I paraphrased what Jesus told Nicodemus, Jesus did tell Nicodemus, a Man Must BE BORN OF WATER and OF The Spirit…I did Insert the Word BE Baptized because That is what Jesus was telling Nicodemus he had to do.

          I have heard this doctrine about A Woman’s Water in her Womb etc.

          I think of you read the entire discussion between Jesus had with Nicodemus it becomes Crystal Clear, it had nothing to do with a woman giving birth and her water in the Womb…Cornelius even asked Jesus, “Can a Man Enter into his Mother’s Womb, again” ( Paraphrase)

          • carson

            there’s an ingredient in water baptism that’s mostly overlooked but you’d note it if you’d study and it’s ‘calling upon the Lord’, or similar during water baptism, then, what is this ‘calling upon the Lord’ and why and what’s it mean?
            So is it the water, or the blood and faith put into action in the calling out to the Lord for a clear conscience before God…makes for a good study.
            Yes be baptised but many get water dunked and never called out to the Lord, never had faith and water dunking is just that then water dunking same as with babies they cannot call upon the Lord can they etc.

            so if a person by faith gets baptised..a person by faith…
            so back up a minute, faith had come for them to then go and do, and if faith had come what’s that mean about water baptism, and again is it the water itself or grace granted faith and the blood of Christ and His resurrection and..

            but yes get baptised but it’s not the crux of salvation and without FAITH nobody gets baptised in reality anyway huh

          • Edwitness

            Wrong Bro Rick,
            Jesus told Nicodemus what He meant in the very next verse. Vs.6. The water birth (vs.5) is the flesh birth (vs.6). And the Spirit birth (vs.5) is the spirit birth (vs.6). John3:5,6 There is not a single mention of water baptism in the entire context of His conversation with Nicodemus. That means you inserted it into the passage because of your own preconceived idea. Water baptism is not necassary for salvation.

            Also, Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles. That’s me. He said in Rom.10:9,10 after he explained how we are made righteous (vs6-8) “That if thou shalt confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God has raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved”. Then he explains why this is all you need to do. “For (or because) with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation“. That is it. Nothing more, nothing less. Anything more is salvation by works.

      • Jimmy

        If the Lord Jesus Christ commanded the body of Christ to be water baptized for salvation, the Apostle Paul was the BIGGEST blasphemous, lying, back-sliding Apostle that ever lived:

        1 Cor 1:17 KJV For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

        In John 3, the Lord was specifically referring to the PHYSICAL birth:

        John 3:6 KJV That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

        John 19:34 KJV But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

        In Acts 8, the gospel of the grace of God wasn’t even fully known to the Apostle Phillip.

        IF water baptism is mandatory for salvation, why didn’t Jesus command the thief on the cross to get water baptized before granting him paradise??

        • Ron

          Brother Jimmy Thank You so much for reminding me of that! I normally point that out but I forgot it this time.
          Yes The Thief on The Cross I am sure He got Baptized, Not!
          But people who get caught with that one say “Well He’s God and can do whatever He wants to!” Well yeah except Lie so if He said you needed water Baptism.
          He would have taken that thief just like Lazarus and floated him on his cross to nearest body of water for a dunking.
          Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
          God Bless You Brother Jimmy!

          • The Thief on the cross, died in the OT, The New Birth did not begin until The Apostles started preaching the NT Salvation plan in The Book of Acts Chapter two..Abraham, Moses, David etc etc were saved in the OT, this does not apply in The NT, the Lord gave the Apostles the NT doctrine

          • Ron

            You are grasping at straws Rick, Jesus said: “IT IS FINISHED” You are just trying to put a new twist on an old excuse! Before I used to hear God can do what he wants sounds to me like someone adjusted their doctrine to fit that which was revealed by others JW’s are good for this.
            Baptism is not necessary to be saved!

            It is a Public Confession of Christ.

          • Donna

            How do you know the thief hadn’t been baptized? You know almost nothing about him.

        • Salt + Light

          Amen, Jimmy!!!

          • Ron

            Double Amen Jimmy and Salt + Light!!

            Donna you’re grabbing at straws too.

            Anything to justify a false Doctrine!

            I going to make this so easy! If Baptism is necessary to be saved, then the Holy Spirit cannot come upon

            someone “until After they recieve” “their Baptism in the water.”

            Let us look at the order….

            Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

            Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

            Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

            Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

            Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

            So tell me did the Holy Spirit come on them after the Water Baptism or was it when they words and before the Water Baptism.

            I know this is extremely difficult read even my autistic son knows which happened first!

          • Ron

            I left out “Heard The” in the sentence…

            So tell me did the Holy Spirit come on them after the Water Baptism or was it when they “Heard The” words and before the Water Baptism.

            God Bless You Jimmy and Salt + Light hopefully they might understand it but I am not holding my breath.

          • Donna


            Even our Lord was baptized, and we are supposed to be imitating him. You have it backwards: Jesus was baptized first with water, then the Holy spirit descended on Him in the form of a dove. That is the picture of Baptism.

          • Ron

            Donna, Donna, Donna, Jesus Christ already had the Holy Spirit this was done in this fashion at Christ’s Baptism to show those present that The Godhead is a Trinity and the Person being Baptised was Jesus Christ The Messiah.

            Now these Scripture are in Order Donna which happened first the Holy Spirit came on them when they believed or after the water Baptism….

            And I will Give you a hint when Peter gave them the Gospel and they believed the Holy Spirit came on them aand they were not wet!
            Let us look at the order….

            Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

            Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

            Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

            Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

            Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

            So tell me did the Holy Spirit come on them after the Water Baptism or was it when they words and before the Water Baptism.

        • Tony

          St. Augustine argued that the good thief may have been baptized but then he fell away. Is that possible? Yes. Did it happen? Maybe…maybe not.
          Regardless if that happened or not are we to reject everything that Our Lord taught, Sts. Peter and Paul taught regarding Baptism based on this one single incident in Scripture?

          • Ron

            No one is rejecting anything we are merely pointing out Baptism IS NOT necessary for Salvation.

          • Tony,
            When Jesus told the criminal on the Cross “Today, you will be with me in Paradise” it was still in the old Testament, until Jesus dieD, this ended the OT, and ushered in The NT.
            In the OT, pick and chose those who loved him, Water Baptism was not introduced for salvation until Jesus died..

          • I have tried to explain this over and over, people want to argue if they want, about Water Baptism can’t save anyone, etc. Let us,read this and see how important it is to be Water baptized..

            I PETER 3 verses 20-21:

            “Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the Ark was preparing, wherein few, that is EIGHT SOULS WERE SAVED BY WATER.


            SO if anyone wants to go against Apostle Peter’s words, they are simply going against God’s Word. I never wrote one word in the KJV, but God is precise on this word..Amen

        • Ron

          Brother Jimmy do you ever notice how when someone like you ( or myself depending on the issue )

          when you quote what you did TO REFUTE THE ISSUE,

          and you have Scripture to back it up they will hang on to their doctrinal Stance and appear totally blind to what you

          post inspite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I Love You Brother Jimmy and God Bless You!

      • Baptism is supposed to be a full immersion underwater, but it is not a requirement for salvation. We are following Christ’s example that he set for us. “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
        ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

        • In itself, Water Baptism alone will not save anyone, true.
          Only if a Person fully Repents, then they are commanded to be Baptized as Peter Commanded The Italian Gentile Family they must do…Read Acts 10 verses 43-48.

          • Ron

            Where is the Scripture where the Lord commands us???

            This was Peter telling them to be Baptized

            Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

            Acts 10:48 And he (Peter) commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

          • Donna


            These are Jesus’ words recorded in the Gospel of Mark 16:15: “He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”

            Jesus was baptized first with water, then the Holy spirit descended on Him in the form of a dove. That is the picture of Baptism.

            Peter gives the correct order: “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

            Do you see? Be baptized – then you will receive the Holy Spirit.

          • Ron

            Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

            What does that say in the second half of that sentence DONNA????????????

            It doesn’t say he that is not baptised shall be damned only those who do not believe.

            The is the last I will say on this matter, Baptism is works and Jesus said there is only 1 Works

            that a person must do to enter in to Heaven…

            John 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

          • Ron

            Bro Rick

            Ask Pastor Skywatcher ( who is very humble and didn’t reveal that on this forum ) what the story is about

            Losing one’s Salvation ( Yes you can lose it, but just like you have to make a conscious decision to invite Christ in. you have to make a conscious decision to kick him out )

            He will also tell you on Baptism. If you insist on not allowing anyone to reply to you we will just post under the ones who already have on this issue.

            I hope Pastor Skywatcher will see this post. Skywatcher use the force ( Holy Spirit )

        • Tony

          So are we to reject what Our Lord said and what St. Peter said regarding Baptism?
          How do you get that sanctifying grace? This is where Baptism and the rest of the Sacraments come into play. A Sacrament is an outward sign of an inner grace.

          • Corni

            Double WOW, all that fuss just to see if you should be dip in water. So that makes me wonder, I belong to no church, but I am born again… Should I run to the nearest church? Nope just joking, MY FAITH IS STRONG, THAT THE ONLY BAPTISM I NEEDED WAS THE HOLY SPIRIT. And if God needs me to be dip into water to show the world that I belong to Him, then so be it. But there is much important way to show you belong to Jesus, Son of God we all waiting to meet.

            P.S. When the end of the world is happening you not gonna be running FOR water to be saved…

          • Ron

            Amen Corni, I wasn’t baptized for some time but I was just like you are now and if you don’t get baptized I will see you Heaven if You Know Jesus Christ in Your Heart God Bless You Corni!

        • RON

          You stated: “Baptism is NOT a requirement for Salvation”

          I Peter 3 verses 20-21 KJV.

          Peter stated: ” Which were sometimes disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah,while the Ark was preparing, wherein few, that eight souls WERE SAVED BY WATER, THE LIKE FIGURE WHEREUNTO EVEN BAPTISM DOTH NOW SAVE US (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good consCienega toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ”

          You just read it right there Water Baptism in Jesus’Name is part of the only salvation message preached in Acts 2 verse 38, at the first Christian Service in Jerusalem.

          In Matthew 16 verse 19, here is what Jesus told Peter: “And I will give you THE KEYS OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, AND WHATSOEVER THOU SHALT BIND OF EARTH, SHALL BE BOUND IN HEAVEN.And whatsoever thou shalt be loose on earth, shall be loosed in heaven”

          God gave him the Holy Ghost to preach his Gospel to all the sinners and unsaved.

          In Acts 10 verses 43-48 Peter COMMANDED the people in Cornelius’ house, to be Water baptized..

          There is no strange doctrine here, you just read it yourself. No debate, or What is, etc.Amen

        • Disagree Scott;

          If you read the story in Acts 8 verses 30-38. We read where Apostle Philip is witnessing to an Ethiopian Eunich…We read where the Eunich asked Philip, “What doth hinder me to be Baptized”?

          Philip tells him: ” If thou beleives with all thine heart, thou mayest”

          The Eunich says: “I beleive Jesus Christ is the Son of God”

          Then, Philip took him DOWN INTO THE WATER, AND BAPTIZED HIM”

          He received the same Baptismal formula Jesus himself by John The Baptist…IN THE RIVER.

          Water Baptism is essential in the total conversion formula, Peter told those gathered in Acts 2 verse 38..

  • Sola Scriptura

    To join with the Catholic Church would be treasonous against our God:

    • Tony

      It would be treasonous against God not to join His Catholic Church. I would rather belong to the Church that Christ the Lord founded and be nourished by His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity rather than belong to a “church” found by a mortal man and listen to a lecture and a sing along every week.

      • Tony
        Could you kindly tell us when did the Catholic Church begin? The only Church Jesus Started began at Pentecost, 40 days after Jesus ascended back to heaven, in Jerusalem where Jesus commanded the Apostles to start HIS CHURCH
        read Luke 24 verses 46-49.Then go to Book of Acts Chapters 1 & 2, read what took place. God Bless.

  • JA

    Great article!!

  • Amalia

    The pagan Roman Empire was divided and dying. Rome attempted a few ways to revitalize and maintain their stronghold and the RCC & invention of ‘pope’ was the only one that met success. That’s the main reason for the invention of the Roman Catholic church but also it was a big push to ‘christianize’ this ungodly empire (or at least trick the people into thinking that). I am Eastern Orthodox and throughout my life, I heard this teaching about the origin of the Roman Catholic church (otherwise called Romanism).

    • Tony

      Amalia, when the Roman Empire died, for many reasons, the Bishop of Rome was seen as a stable force in a world that was turned upside down. Also, the Evangelicals on this board, believe that you are not a Christian since you are Orthodox.

  • tim

    Ok. Whoever hasn’t realized that Geoffrey is seriously mentally challenged sure will at this…or you need to.

    Geoffrey says, “So a ‘Catholic’ is someone who is dependent on or given over to cats.”

    He has such a livid desire to deceive you. Please don’t repeat the above statement to any educated person – you will be laughed at and rightly so.

    The word ‘catholic’ means ‘pertaining to the whole’ and is use in Acts 9:31 as a contraction of the Greek words ‘kata’ and ‘holos’ meaning ‘through the whole’. We say ‘universal’ church today.

    Don’t believe me? Type the words entomology and catholic in your browser and see what comes up.

    Geoffrey’s statement is one of the most ignorant I have ever heard. Seriously people! How can you believe such kindergarten tales?

    I pray that Geoffrey will try harder not to deceive people and that he will educate himself before he writes such silly things. And I pray for everyone who may need discernment to see through it.

    In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit

    • Tim,
      Can you tell us what The Name of The Father, The Son, and Holy Ghost is?

      • tim

        Bro Rick,

        No. Nobody can. But this is close…


        • David Douglass

          The “name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit” is the same individual that is mentioned in the OT when God said he would make a “people for His Name”. And the answer to who those many passages are speaking of, is in fact not the Jewish religious authorities policy-idea of not using vowels so that no one could say the name, because they weren’t worthy, but instead the one who would come as Messiah in the flesh of mankind, so therefore the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit, is “Jesus of Nazareth” who would work as a man in the profession of ‘manufacturing the vessels, furniture and items of worship within the temple in Jerusalem–the raw resources and thus the craftsman, lived in Nazareth. Jesus’s profession was supplying the items of worship in the temple of His Father, which He as Jehovah God of the OT had given the laws for those very items to be designed and built. Jesus of Nazareth worked with his physical father’s profession to make it His own profession which in turn was His House, His Father’s House, and The House of the Holy Spirit.
          Jesus of Nazareth is the NAME OF GOD.

  • tim

    Ok. Whoever hasn’t realized that Geoffrey is seriously mentally challenged sure will at this…or you need to.
    Geoffrey says, “So a ‘Catholic’ is someone who is dependent on or given over to cats.”

    He has such a livid desire to deceive you. Please don’t repeat the above statement to any educated person – you will be laughed at and rightly so.

    The word ‘catholic’ means ‘pertaining to the whole’ and is use in Acts 9:31 as a contraction of the Greek words ‘kata’ and ‘holos’ meaning ‘through the whole’. We say ‘universal’ church today.

    Don’t believe me? Type the word entomology and catholic in your browser and see what comes up.

    Geoffrey’s statement is one of the most ignorant I have ever heard. Seriously people! How can you believe such kindergarten tales?

    I pray that Geoffrey will try harder not to deceive people and that he will educate himself before he writes such silly things. And I pray for everyone who may need discernment to see through it.

    • GRACE

      That is the first time I have ever heard that about cats, not sure what to make of that. I once knew a minister who said he hated cats, claimed he would shoot them as to look at them which I found very strange for a claimed minister to say, very disturbing and I hope he was joking although I didn’t find it funny. I have had a cat or two my entire life and have one now, he tends to be a little crazy at times and hates when I sing praises to God or pray so have to lock him out of room I am in, not sure why that is, maybe he thinks my singing is awful or maybe he senses things going on in the spiritual realm, I don’t know, all I know is that it’s creepy so have to lock him out and he howls incessantly outside of my prayer room the entire time. My dog is so peaceful as I pray and sing to God, he will sleep right through it so why the difference I don’t know. I know it sounds funny, has anyone else noticed anything like this with their cat?

    • I am sorry if you are unable to understand the meaning of words. The word “Catholic” does not mean “universal”, never did and never will.

      • tim


        It means according to whole literally. Same thing.

        This kind of story is why NTEB is listed as a fake news site.

        I pray that you get some integrity.

  • Trober



    to Bro Rick;

    The Apostle to the Gentiles, Paul, wrote this concerning N.T.baptism:

    “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel…” (1 Corinthians 1:17)

    Water baptism has nothing to do do with salvation. True salvation is brought about by a repentant heart (called “godly sorrow” 2 Corinthians 7:10) and faith in the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Paul,(the apostle to the Gentiles); “Testifying both to the Jews and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.” (Acts 20:21)

    Baptism does not save you.


    • Mike,

      Yes, Paul did say what you wrote, but if you read Acts 19 verses 1-7 you read where Paul Water Baptized the former disciples of John The Baptist..John’s Repentance Baptism was a forerunner to the Baptism Jesus himself showed by example, and the Symbolic Dove being the Holy Ghost came down upon Jesus, again as OUR EXAMPLE. If Water Baptism is not a necessary part of Salvation, why then did Apostle Peter COMMAND the family of Cornelius, an Italian Gentile to be Baptized in Acts 10 verses 43-48?

      Paul, was telling us God did not call him to Water Baptize as his primary concern, but to Evangelize Christianity as his primary mission.

      I just proved the point when you read Acts 19 verses 1-7.

      Can you show us anywhere in the New Testament, where any Man or Woman Ever was Water Baptized in “Father, Son, and Holy Ghost”? Yet, 90+% of Christian Churches use this wrong formula..

      • Ron

        Bro Rick
        Lets take a look at those verse again, what happened first
        Acts 10:44-47 44:While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

        They are already saved at this point before their water Baptism which is a Public confession of that Salvation and symbolic as well.

        45:And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

        46:For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

        47: Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

        Baptized with water after the fact and they were saved the moment they believed.

        • Ron

          Acts 19 verse 1-7 Paul asks the former disciples of John The Baptist: ” Have you received, the Holy Ghost since you Beleived”?.

          They replied: “We have not heard of any Holy Ghost”?

          So, what we see here is They beleived but had not received The Holy Ghost, because John The Baptist only taught Repentance only Baptism, his Baptism would no longer work. Then notice, Paul RE BAPTIZED THEM, then they got it…Repentance, Water Baptism.

          You stated by claiming your a Beleiver only you can receive and keep the Holy Spirit and never be baptized. Ron, that is false teaching according to what the KJV States.

          Read Acts 8 verses 36-38 The Eunich asked Apostle Philip, “See, here is Water, WHAT doth hinder me to be baptized”? Philip told him “If thou beleivestate with almost thine heart, thou mayest. Then the Eunich said “I Beleive Jesus Christ is the Son of God” Then Philip took him down into the Water and baptized him.

          Some people receive The Holy Ghost as soon as they come up out of the Water, some get it later on, it goes both ways, it is God’s free gift to whom he alone chooses to give now or later, his choice. If you claim you have it, but never got baptized, I strongly urge you to do so, because your only half-born.

        • Ron,
          I disagree. Simply because of a person disobeys the Word of God, they are fooling themselves into thinking they can cherry pick what they like or don’t like and expect Jesus to tolerate disobediedience….Example: When God told Moses to SPEAK TO THE ROCK and water would come forth, so the Children of Israel could have water, Moses struck the Rock , and Water came forth, but for his disobedience, God would not let Moses to the Promised Land, he died on this side of the River, for his disobedience bro.

          And you can best beleive nobody is going to the promised land either, if they disobey God’s Holy Word..Amen

          • Ron

            Wrong answer thief on the Cross entered into Paradise with Jesus no baptism!
            I was filled with the Holy Spirit the day I got saved and did not get Baptised till over a Year Later. I Cannot deny an event that transpired the moment I accepted Jesus Christ into my Heart that I confirmed what I found in the bible later.

  • Terik Ororke

    Was Luther more interested in Katherine than the church? How about the Holy man called Henry VIII? What about power hungry Calvin…?wake up Christians.

  • The real impact of the R.C. religion on God’s true religion through Jesus of Nazareth, the Creator of all things, was and continues to be, the reordering of the O.T. and N.T Christian writings. Constantine commissioned the Jewish scribe Augustine to work on restructuring the O.T. writings for the purpose of having remote control on ‘how the religious people read the writings’. He wanted to end the current practice of learning God-ordered truths of the writings favoring instead Constantine’s scholarly hermeneutics over the one God provided over Jewish history.
    After Augustine finished the O.T. he begged Constantine to relieve him of his commission siting ‘spiritual concerns of God’s judgment for tampering with God’s revelation’. Constantine let him have his request and appointed Jerome, to finish the task.
    The end result was the Bible, ordered as we have it today, except for chapter and verse markers which were added over 700 years later when scholars had the freedom to tamper with Constantine’s contribution to God’s revelation to Jews and Believers in Jesus as the Anointed One. The reason for the addition of chapter and verse was to provide a more usable form of the writings to aid in teaching and comprehension.
    So the precursor to the Catholic Bible was in fact, our current ordered Bible. It’s stunning to know that you’ve been learning God’s Word via Constantine’s Order of God’s Revelation.
    However the Holy Spirit is not hindered by such interference. God will among mankind has still be accomplished, demonstrating indeed the power of God’s word to unhindered by sin — ‘disorder’.
    Now, as I learned the Word of God, I especially gravitated to the ‘science of interpretation’ or Hermeneutics. And applying strict rules of the science I became clear to me that everything I needed to understand what the ‘original order’ of God’s revelation was, was included in each of the biblical writer’s writings.
    After a few years of careful reading of the books using the KJV and using the original languages to determine exact meanings within the context of each biblical writer’s chairs–so to speak, I clearly understood which of the books of the Bible came first, second, etc.—God’s Revelatory Chronological Order. (not to be confused with chronological order of events)
    It took me another year to reorganize my KJV book order, carefully using each writer’s information regarding context, culture, customs, and physical info regarding people, places and events.
    The main premise was: God at a point in time, saw that man advanced one of their languages to the point where ‘eternal truths’ would and could not be lost in time, in that the language was able to accurately project the truth God intended all future peoples to learn–a stable language capable of conveying truth for eternity.
    It makes perfect sense that God, (The TEACHER of teachers) would provide an ordered teaching platform that the people of the day, could learn and remember WITH EASE–first things first, second things second, etc.
    I have been reading the KJV of the Bible in this order now for 12 years and it has solved many ‘diverse religious interpretation conflicts and challenges’ and made simple to understand, the truths of God’s Word. The process is far more natural, and commonsense, than my theological training in institutions of theology.
    For instance, when a new believer or a potential believer comes to me with advise as to where to start reading in the Bible, I never advise to start with any writings of John, for that is like starting a 7 year old with a college level teaching. And when reading the O.T. I never advice the reader to start with Genesis for this sets a ‘biblical context’ that is NOT what God provided and the result is people tend to desire a false ideal of ‘utopia’.
    If you would like to know more, I invite you to contact me, and I will provide freely what I have learned by paying attention to the exact science of interpretation, where ‘the writer’s chair’ is clearly understood and what future writer’s chairs, he points to next, etc.

    • Great Post Bro. I learned something on your post. Let me add also another thing that took place during the 325AD, Council of NICEA, headed by Roman Emperor Constantine. (1) Constantine carried the Latin title of “Summus Pontifex” ( The Pope) for the first time in history. So, people need to know the title of “Pope” was first bestowed on a heathen pagan, not some “Annointed” Church leader in Rome.

      (2) The Gnostics of Egypt were chosen by this council of Pagans and Heathens, to explain “Father, Son, Holy Ghost”…The Gnostics in their Carnal not Spirit led minds, decided the following.

      (1) Egyptians, such as the Gnostics worshipped The Sun God, like most pagan cultures did. The Sun God in Egypt consisted of 3 “Isis” “Horus” and “Seb”…Sun God Trinity. And they convinced the Nicea council that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are a “Trinity” of 3, as well!!, these heathens beleived this and thus.The Trinity Doctrine is rooted in most Christian Churches even today.

    • Ron

      Brother David I like the fact you pointed out all this info but all my Born Again friends and myself just love new info all the time from our other Brothers and Sisters out there because we learn from each other and when you post something like…

      Quote:For instance, when a new believer or a potential believer comes to me with advise as to where to start reading in the Bible, I never advise to start with any writings of John, for that is like starting a 7 year old with a college level teaching. And when reading the O.T. I never advice the reader to start with Genesis for this sets a ‘biblical context’ that is NOT what God provided and the result is people tend to desire a false ideal of ‘utopia’.:End Quote
      I would to know for my own info what it is where you would have someone start in the OT and NT who is just starting out.
      God Bless You David!

      • Ron, after reading the OT and the NT simultaneously I would recommend starting in Matthew with the first of the gospels about the life, death, and resurrection of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. If not Matthew, then Romans as that book clearly shows the road to grace and has within it the way to help to lead one that is unsaved to salvation and the assurance of their salvation

        • Ron

          I already look at it with that approach SCott, I just wanted to hear what David himself had to say, but Thank You for Your input Brother it good to see someone else that takes the approach the same as myself pretty much.
          But this is just opinional on my part I would tell them to go and start reading the OT simultaneously After they read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
          God Bless You SCott!

      • Ron

        I myself study like this..I start at Genesis 1 verse 1 read 10 complete chapters per day time permitting. Read 10 per day, or whatever you feel you can concentrate and absorb. Go through rhetoric entire 66 books, then start back at Genesis 1 verse 1, etc. I do this because you may miss an important fact the first 50 times you read it, and missed the point, then suddenly you see it, and now better understand it, and what it Means.

      • Ron for the purpose of brevity, please refer to the reply I provided Scott. It’s a little lengthy, but the subject takes a little effort to grasp since we’ve been automatically using the Bible in the current construction–as if it is part of ‘Inspiration’ which it is not anymore than chapter and verses being added around the time of 1000-1200 AD. However none of God’s revelation was lost through this ‘interference’, the Holy Spirit is not hindered to those who have ears to hear.

        • Ron

          Will Do.

      • Ron,
        In an earlier post you asked this question: “Where is the Scripture where the Lord COMMANDED US to be Baptized”?

        Here it is Ron:


        What sayest thou?

    • David, I would be interested in reading the bible in the way that it was originally written and getting a more clear understanding of it and what it says-especially if the books of it should all be read in a certain order

      • Thanks for your reply Scott. I want to be clear, God as the Holy Spirit is able to overcome the rearrangement Constantine imposed on the Jewish OT from Jehovah and the NT of Jesus of Nazareth—both the same being, which is God.
        So you can today, read any book of the Bible in any order you desire, the Holy Spirit will sort it out in ways no one can define or understand.
        With that said, the premise I present is, God did at a particular time in history, start to ‘preserve His revelation in a language advanced enough to 100% represent His truths for mankind totally separated from Him by their own disorder (evil), which they agree to accept as order (sin).
        At this starting point in time, God caused his first revelation to be written and in that day the writer sat in time, in culture, in society, within a nation of people, that in all likelihood, had a similar human-base to us today, but without a doubt a very different culture, language and set of ‘word pictures’ they communicated with.
        So God designed the human brain to naturally gravitate to Him, able to engage in a relationship, person to person within a setting, basis, and order. (I believe this human position is a King to a subject/citizen of a kingdom and not a person to person relationship as we view it).
        Thus it stands to basic reasoning that God would start to preserve revelations of His, that would enable to people to “Begin” to learn God’s viewpoint on human existence. Once the first intro revelation was provided and preserved, then a second revelation was provided “only when humans could responsibly handle the next revelation, which expands on the first one.
        So the revelation-to-revelation process started along a timeline in which God waits on man to read, learn, and choose citizenship or not. Once the comprehension is achieve by man, God provides the next revelation to meet man’s needs to comprehend further truths. (It stands to human reasoning that some revelation is more difficult to comprehend than other revelations so if we could read in His Ordered Revelation, this would not be a problem.)

        The ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION: Let’s start with our point of view–we do not know how to get to God on our own, we have no ability to accomplish it. SO God starts the process for us, one step of understanding on another step, in a deliberate process of learning, which the brain was designed to accept naturally.

        For this reason God provided the writing of Job first of all His revelations. This revelation answers the main question of all sinners when wondering in ignorance what God’s thinking is on man’s actions and beliefs–Can I be good enough for God the Creator to please Him? Secondly, how does God judge me–good or evil, or ordered or disordered. Thirdly, God speaks in correction mode for 3 of 4 of Job’s visitors, which all present human philosophy prevalent at that time–and remains so down through history. Fourthly the relationship with God occurs for the most righteous man on earth, after he is completely broken by the opposition. Fifthly, God’s victory over Lucifer is by His relationship with a created lesser being which He provides mercy and grace in judgment as a King would implement. God does all the saving work, man simply complies with it by his own freewill.
        In the New Testament, we have a similar starting point again, but this time the identity of the King is understood as God created Himself in human form, named Jesus of Nazareth. For this reason, the first of the 27 NT writings started with Peter’s gospel–Mark which explains Jesus as human, a man, the son of man, which is where all people start in their thinking–by the way the same premise as Job.
        Then along the same human understanding level, almost at the same time frame, Jesus had His half brother write to the religious Jew (Jehovah God’s people for His Name) in the book of James–which also addresses the base understanding of a commitment to a King in His Kingdom to come.
        From this point in the timeline of the NT writings, there is a period of a ‘Jewish generation’ and Saul is called to become Paul. Galatians and Thessalonians is sent to the churches.
        Now going back to the OT revelatory timeline, the second book is given by Jehovah God in the context of Exodus 1-4 when God provided the 10 chapters of Genesis, (which by the way means “Head” or “Starting Point” in Hebrew) that addresses ‘a people for God’s name becoming a nation of people, being born from above over a process of birth time, as they are freed from the tyranny of disorder accepted apart from the truth of the Creator. Egypt is presented with a ‘war document’ from their slave nation, which asserts Egypt is a fraud, and the people who wear skins, are the true people for the Creator’s Name. I say ten chapter, which can be identified with this introductory phrase, “Now the generation …” –are the original chapter markers.
        I can continue, but I think this should suffice as to wet your appetite on this subject.
        God as the ‘true teacher’ provides a base level intelligence at the beginning, and slowly gradually increases that level of intelligence, which He designed the human brain to automatically understand–did not say believe–so that man has the responsibility to choose to be truthful about themselves as GOD see them–their King IF they chose to accept/believe–within His coming Kingdom on earth.
        Time for more coffee. May God direct your understanding of His Revelation.

    • David
      Amen Bro! You Nailed it..God Bless you.

  • Mike

    I totally disagree with this article, this is in fact Satan dividing the Christian Church and conquering. Jesus said “You will be judged the same as you judge others”…. How can you judge other people on their belief in Jesus as their savior. As a Catholic, I never judge anyone since this is not my place, but to be the light at the top of the hill to guide people to Jesus. We all have to not just read the bible but to live what the bible says and let it permeate within our souls, this is being the light that God is living within our life as a Christian.

    The Catholic Church’s first pope was Peter the apostle, I will admit that not all Popes in the Church have been the great including the present Pope (my opinion), but the Catholic church preaches every day the New and Old testament, in which other Christian Churches also proclaim daily. If we are going to have a Christian Church, we need to stop saying your not a believer becaurse Your Catholic, Baptist, Evangelical, etc. Jesus asks us to unify and to love one another and to be ONE BODY of Christ, not separate.

    • Jimmy


      Do you live what the Bible says perfectly without sin?? If not, how do you plan on getting to Heaven?

      • Jimmy

        Nobody on this forum is sinless, before they got in Church or even after.

        The difference is being covered in The Blood of Jesus, and his sacrifice for us worthless humans.

        Book of James?….” My little Children we should SIN NOT; BUT IF WE SIN, WE HAVE AN ADVOCATE WITH THE FATHER, JESUS CHRIST THE RIGHTEOUS”.

        The blood of Jesus covers us if we mess up. That does not mean we willfully sin and transgress continually.

        The Bible clearly, if we willfully sin, there remains no more sacrifice for our sin..

        • Ron

          Here we go again taking Scripture out of context RICK

          Quote:The blood of Jesus covers us if we mess up. That does not mean we willfully sin and transgress continually.

          The Bible clearly, if we willfully sin, there remains no more sacrifice for our sin.:Unquote

          Christ died for ALL OUR SINS not just some of them.

          Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

          These Scriptures are talking about a person who is being convicted by God’s Holy Spirit and being offered the Free gift of Salvation ( because NO ONE COMES TO GOD EXCEPT THE HOLY SPIRIT DRAWS THEM FIRST ) then they are the ones who must make the choice to accept or reject it.
          Well if they reject it, it comes down to this …..
          If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
          I smoked for 9 years after I was saved, but God did not give up on that sin ( I had smoked for 33 years ) and finally gave me the strength and direction to be free of that habit and some other sins too.
          People do not lose Salvation in the Church age ever, All that have come to Jesus He Will Keep
          John 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
          I don’t see any throwbacks in that statement.

          • Ron

            I simply quoted this scripture.

            What is that saying? Your going to tell me, we can sin everyday, every year hour after God forgave and forgot every sin we ever committed prior to we coming to him, repenting, then you see it as we can start over sinning again, and God will still forgive us, over and over, and over? Get Drunk, take drugs, whatever you feel like, your forgiven anyway?


          • Ron

            I notice you don’t leave a reply when you say something.

            Let me tell you this since you mocked me

            The Lord Jesus Christ Severely Rebuke You Bro Rick and your False Doctrines!

          • Ron
            Your stating the same thing I stated bro. If you Sin willfully there remains no more sacrifice for sins..But..But if we do sin, we have an Advocate, with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous…and Ron, one other thing take special notice of in that verse..”THE FATHER, JESUS CHRIST, THE RIGHTEOUS, And then John 10 verse 30 Jesus said: “I, and MY FATHER ARE ONE”..they even share the exact same name!!

            And Mr. Ron, also read John 5 verse 43: Jesus ( The Son) stated: “I come in MY FATHER’S NAME, and you beleive me not….”

            SO, in the future, if you will be so kind, to share verses on your point to see if both our verses line up with the actual word and situation, it will be greatly appreciated…Thanks!!

    • “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.”
      ‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭6:14-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬
      http://bible.com/1/2co.6.14-18.kjv. This is why Catholics and Christians disagree and can’t worship one with another. The RCC teaches a salvation that is obtained differently than the one that we believe and know to be truth based on what the bible says as the word of God. They have added to and/or taken away from God’s word as wherever did purgatory come from? And how is it that one supposedly prays for those in purgatory in order to help them get to heaven? “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
      ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

      • Amen!

      • tim


        You do not understand what the RCC teaches about purgatory. It has nothing to do with salvation. Those in purgatory ARE saved.

        [CCC 1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.]

        Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: [Heb. 12:14]

        How holy must we be?

        Jesus said, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” [Matt. 5:48]

        When asked by the rich young man what he must do for eternal life (and claiming to have perfectly followed the commandments, Jesus says again, “If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.” [Matt. 19:21]

        So it is clear that perfection is required to be saved.

        Scott, are you perfect yet? Neither am I. But we both will be if we are to enter into the glory of heaven. Between the time of your death and entrance into heaven, you will go through a final purification unless you accomplish this while you are living, and few people do. We don’t get to take our junk with us to heaven. It must get burned up. Yes, we are forgiven, but not purged.

        “If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” [1 Cor. 3:15]

        We don’t become perfect just through physical death.

        The Catholic belief that we can pray for souls being purged comes partly from 2 Maccabees 12:45 (a book that was in all Bibles for 1200 years).

        “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” [Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬]

        Yes, Catholics believe that too!

        [CCC1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification or immediately, — or immediate and everlasting damnation.]

        I hope this is helpful.

        • Tim,
          No place in the New Testament, does Jesus, or his Apostles tell us, you get a “Second Chance” by going to Hell, but people here, still can “Pray you out”, or give money to Mother Church and This also will help them chop off a few thousand years off their sentance…

          Tim, let me show you what really takes,place after a person dies.

          Revelation 20 verses 12-15

          “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God: and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: and another book was opened,WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE: And the dead were JUDGED, out of those things which were written in the books according to their works.

          And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and he’ll delivered the dead which were in them,,and they were JUDGED ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS.

          And death and hell were cast into THE LAKE OF FIRE, THUS IS,THE SECOND DEATH.


          No “Second Chance” No plea,
          Bargains. No purgatory, no Limbo.

          You either die “RIGHT” or you die “WRONG” AMEN!!

          • tim

            Bro Rick,

            I am glad that you recognize this:

            “No place in the New Testament, does Jesus, or his Apostles tell us, you get a “Second Chance” by going to Hell, but people here, still can “Pray you out”, or give money to Mother Church and This also will help them chop off a few thousand years off their sentance…”

            I totally agree with you, and so does the Catholic Church. If that is what you thought the Catholic Church believes, then you were totally mistaken. I am glad that is cleared up.

            The rest of what you said…mostly scripture quotes. That is good.

            But if you happen to die before you are perfect, God will perfect you by His grace.

          • Ron

            Bro Rick you are right what I think they did was twist the place of Paradise into purgatory.

            Paradise was for the Old Testament Saints ( where the rich man could see Lazarus )

            who had to await Christ’s Sacrifice on the cross. With that said Paradise is now empty since then and forever will be.
            Hell is no escape and eventually even Hell will be empty because it will be dumped into The Lake of Fire. Where the worm dieth not, the fire is not quenched, one is bound hand and foot, it is so dark it can be felt ( with the darkness and fire, many say how can it be dark without light when there is fire, it can be Just look at a Black Hole, so God sometimes give us physical proofs of Spiritual things ) and the only thing they will have was the memory of how simple it would have been to accept Christ and avoid it. They will be tormented by all those things as well as the screams of the others will be torment to them.

            And Thank You Lord Jesus Christ That You Washed Me In Your Lord and Put My Heart and Destiny in Heaven.

        • Edwitness

          In your response to Bro Rick you lied outright. From Catholic answers;

          “Catholic teaching regarding prayers for the dead is bound up inseparably with the doctrine of Purgatory (q.v.) and the more general doctrine of the Communion of Saints (q.v.), which is an article of the Apostles’ Creed. The definition of the Council of Trent (Sess. XXV), “that purgatory exists, and that the souls detained therein are helped by the suffrages of the faithful, but especially by the acceptable sacrifice of the altar“, is merely a restatement in brief of the traditional teaching which had already been embodied in more than one authoritative formula—as in the creed prescribed for converted Waldenses by Innocent III in 1210 (Den-zinger, Enchiridion, n. 373) and more fully in the profession of faith accepted for the Greeks by Michael Palaeologus at the Second Ecumenical Council of Lyons in 1274 (ibid., n. 387). The words of this profession are reproduced in the decree of union subscribed by the Greeks and Latins at the Council of Florence in 1439: “[We define] likewise, that if the truly penitent die in the love of God, before they have made satisfaction by worthy fruits of penance for their sins of commission and omission, their souls are purified by purgatorial pains after death; and that for relief from those pains they are benefited by the suffrages of the faithful in this life, that is, by Masses, prayers and almsgiving, and by the other offices of piety usually performed by the faithful for one another according to the practice [instituta] of the Church” (ibid., n. 588).”

          Pergatory is a lie and so was your statement that Catholic’s do not believe that prayer and almsgiving bring relief for the dead. Don’t listen to this heretic liar Bro Nick. He is here to deceive those who would be. Sound familiar?

          • tim


            Sorry. I did not lie, and I don’t appreciate the accusation. My comment was particularly about the “Second Chance” myth.

            We can help those in purgatory through our prayers and sufferings. But we can’t buy their way out.

            Purgatory is not a lie. It is a process we all, who do not die in a perfect state of holiness, will go through before we see heaven. No time or place is necessarily involved. But we will be perfected or we won’t see God.

        • Edwitness

          Just more lies Tim. We can tell your lying because your Catholic lips are moving.

          • tim

            No Edwitness,

            You can tell someone is lying when you prove them wrong and prove that they know they are wrong.

            You haven’t even come close.

    • Mike
      Disagree Bro…The Bible does tell us to not judge others according to APPEARANCE, BUT TO JUDGE RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT.

      Example: Let say for example a man rings a doorbell, a woman opens the door, let’s the man in. The neighbor across the Street sees this, and after 2 hours the man, comes out gets in his vehicle and drives away…Right away the Devil starts whispering in the neighbors ear: “Did you see that? he came out with a smile on his face, you know what I think, she is cheating on her husband who is out of town on buisness!!” Devil continues: ” Ain’t no telling what those two were up to”

      So the tale bearing, and Gossip begins. And the neighbor tells this one and that one what THEY SAW, AND THEIR OPINION”.

      Before a day goes by the entire story has the woman meeting him in a nightgown, and blah blah..This is called “Judge Not, lest you be judged”

      Then later the woman being accused meets everyone at a neighborhood get together, and tells everyone the good news,how her Rich uncle in such and such state left her and Husband, and children 1 million dollars, and a Lawyer representing the law firm, came by to have papers signed before they mail her the check, and went over free advice how to handle this kind of Windfall, etc

      This is where this verse now comes into play: Judge not by APPEARANCE,but Judge righteous judgement”

      Another words, you call it righteously for what it is, wait for Scripture to verify if it is, what it is.

    • Mike

      I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, if I was, I could not call myself a Christian, and be truthful. I love everybody, especially those who are teachable, and want to be told the truth, and verify it in Scripture.

      Sadly, many don’T want to know the exact truth it vexes their Spirit.

      Apostle Paul stated this to those who were persecuting him, because he told them what they needed to do:


    • carson

      are catholics christians?
      or are catholics inter-faithers among other things?

      also to say that the church is failing because…all that is written is being fulfilled (think about and study that) is wrong. All that is written will be fulfilled luke 21, such a thing as rev 12:12 will happen as example, you I the church or God himself is not going to stop that event but instead it’s part of God’s overall plan along with all the other events/prophesies.
      This is where plenty of people fail, they may even read the prophesies yet they don’t heed or apply them, we’re to both read them and all the word and apply it, apply prophesy just as the daily walk word.
      The devil and his own will have their short time, it’s a done deal, nowhere does that mean the church had failed because the devil ended up having his short time.
      But the catholics along with wayward christians seem to have this idea that all together they can stop what is written from occurring, that somehow them being all together as one borg hive have the power to stop God’s prophetic word and plans from coming to be…which is just silly and wayward, or perhaps actually fits into the plans of the devil..?!

      So what is the inter-faith along with ecumenicalism and this ‘oneness’ under what ‘god’, if the inter-faither faux christian say’s he worships the same ‘god’ as the sikh and the muslim and the voodoo priests etc is the ‘god’ the inter-faither faux christians have the real and true God Almighty anymore or have they left Him and run off with the idols of the worlds religions?
      Serious questions, please look into today’s actions of these.
      Remember anyone can read straight out of the bible but then close the book and do otherwise, what are the ‘oneness’ folks doing that’s NOT biblical and why is that direly important.

    • Mike,
      Disagree, Peter was not the first Pope, that is a figment of somebody’s imagination. Matter of Fact, according to the Bible, Peter was the Apostle to The Jews in Jerusalem. Paul was the Apostle to The Gentiles. Paul wrote the “Book of Romans” in the NT. If Peter was the Pope, in Rome, why did’NT Peter write it?

  • The baptism that is performed by water immersion is symbolic of the baptism by the Holy Spirit and our sins being washed away and this occurs at the moment that we are born again

  • Ron

    You asked where Peter Commanded them to be Baptized From?

    Read Matthew 16, Jesus gave Peter “The Keys” He told all of his Apostles,
    “Whatsoever you bind on earth, is bound in HEAVEN…….”

  • John c

    That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Roman’s 10:9

    • John c

      Romans 10:9. I don’t like autocorrect

    • John
      There is more to it then just John 10 verse 9. That verse tells us simply, you must beleive in Jesus, which includes his Holy Word.

      If you don’t agree to that it would be like someone saying; ” Yes I firmly, totally beleive Jesus is God, etc, but not really sure on his or Apostles’ teachings”….That will not cut it.

  • We have covered Water Baptism being an
    Essential part of being saved, If any other questions please ask, or let’s move on to the next subject…Thanks everyone!

    • Ron

      Why because you are the official expert on Baptism, NOT!

      • Ron

        When you stand before the Very one who wrote the rules, explain to him how wrong I was..Thx

      • Ron

        Like Paul Said: “AM I therfore become your enemy, because I tell you the TRUTH”??

        • Ron

          No BRO RICK you are not except with the issue of Baptism and how Salvation can be lost which many have reproved to you and it’s as though you plug your ears and close your eyes to it IMO.

          Most of what you have posted seems to be good doctrine like what I have as well.

          I don’t know for sure if you are saved, I will assume you are based on the other responses you have given.

          Did the apostles attend that church you went so great in detail about, NO THEY DID NOT!

          But I put my my Faith in The Lord Jesus Christ, not in man’s religion and from I see now a days it is for the most

          part a joke and an abomination anymore. I walk, I falter, I fall down, I repent and ask for his forgiveness, and He

          picks me up and cleans me up. Just as Gold is figurative of God’s Holiness which does not tarnish. Silver is

          figurative of Our Salvation because the Silver tarnishes and needs to cleaned and polished. Just like those items in

          the Tabernacle. I may sin but where else can I go but to the Lord my friend I so earnestly look to the day I either

          take a dirt nap ( But it is needful for me to be here for autistic sons ) or go in The Pre Trib Rapture and see My

          Lord and Savior Face To Face and leave this marble garbage dump behind. All I ask is don’t mix works with Grace,

          aside from that trust me I know The Lord. I don’t make that statement to either fool myself or impress others, just

          as He hasn’t denied me, I will never deny Him. I would not be alive this day if it were not for Him, if you knew all

          I had been thru. Blessings!

  • To me, the Catholic church (Vatican/Pope) is the ultimate anti-Christ irony. When did Jesus ever put on ermine and have hand-made Italian slippers and robes? What is difficult to discern is that we are repeatedly told that all this is “Christian”, when it is not. It took me a long time to understand that the Catholic church has basically slapped paganism on top of actual Christianity, including even changing the day on which we worship from the Sabbath (Saturday) to Sun (as in Sun-god) day.

    Malachi Martin wrote an interesting novel about the Catholic Church in the days of Pope John Paul II, that shows a considerable amount of insight and discernment, especially for someone who was said to be a Vatican insider until their untimely death.

    • Pamela,

      Thank you for your input on this subject, very interesting I agree.

  • Victoria

    Most of “Christianity” teaches pagan ideas, such as the immortality of the soul. And of course the RCC is the abominable and bloodthirsty Mother Harlot of her Protestant daughters. God does not change and neither does the papacy. Let’s get that straight.

    The churches don’t need to reconcile totally. All they need is to agree on a few key points and then focus on LOVE and THE ENVIRONMENT, which is exactly what P.Francis is going around hawking. And, after decades of bleeding-heart liberal attitudes and climate-change brainwashing, most of the world will fall for it.

    P.Francis is on almost all social media and the news outlets love him. The beast is making his final moves. It won’t be long. And we are in the middle of the Extraordinary Jubilee Year of Mercy, a year dedicated to bringing wayward believers back to their dear old loving mother Jezebel.

    Remember the witch in Hänsel and Gretel? Replace “witch” with “papacy”. Or “wolf in sheep’s clothing”, either one works. Take note and prepare accordingly.

  • Karen

    First of all, I’m a Pentecostal. For you to say that the Pentecostals are joining with the Catholic church is a false statement. There may be a group that calls themselves Pentecostal that are doing so, but do not generically say the “Pentecostals” are joining them. There are millions of us; and since I’m almost 65 years old and know many of our members across the world, I know for a fact that the Oneness Apostolic Pentecostals are not. Number one, we have NEVER accepted the Catholic church’s formula of baptism, which was created in 325 AD at the time of Constantine. We will never accept it because it is not how the apostles baptized.

    (Quoting from the NEW CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA):
    The Council opened at Nicaea in Bithynia (modern Iznik, northwestern Turkey in Asia), in Constantine’s palace, with an address by the Emperor. About 300 bishops were present…..In the beginning at least, Constantine was honorary president and even intervened to ensure peaceful discussion. The doctrine of the Trinity was formulated by the fathers of the church at this council in the year 325.

    Jesus told the apostles to baptize in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. What is the NAME? We know the name of the son is Jesus. Luke 1:30-31: Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call HIS NAME JESUS. What’s the name of the father? John 5:43: I have come in MY
    FATHER’S NAME, and you do not receive me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. If the son’s name is Jesus and he comes in his father’s name, then the father’s name is Jesus as well. Many fathers give their first son their name. Well, this is what God did. Okay, what’s the Holy’s Ghost’s name? John 14:26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send IN MY NAME, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. So the name of the Holy Ghost is Jesus as well.
    Now, let’s go to where Jesus gives us more information regarding salvation in Luke 24:44-49: And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved CHRIST to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that REPENTANCE AND REMISSION OF SINS should be preached IN HIS NAME among all nations, BEGINNING AT JERUSALEM. And ye are witnesses of these things. And, behold, I send the promise of my father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. Here Jesus tells the apostles to preach repentance and baptism in HIS NAME.

    Let’s go to the upper room where the Holy Ghost is first poured out, which by the way is in JERUSALEM (beginning at Jerusalem). This is where the gospel is preached for the first time. Please note that the Bible said that Peter STANDING UP WITH THE ELEVEN… (Acts 2:14). Nowhere does it say that any of the other eleven apostles told Peter that he made a mistake because he didn’t. Acts 2:38-39 says: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. Let’s put this in Jesus’ words from Luke: Repent and, FOR THE REMISSION OF YOUR SINS, you must be baptized in the NAME OF JESUS.

    The apostles were trained by Jesus and were told to preach the gospel. The Bible said that Jesus prayed for his disciples so that, when they preached the gospel as well as future individuals, those hearing them would believe them. If you don’t trust the apostles, then you don’t trust Jesus because he trained them and sent them into the world to preach. You can find nowhere in the Bible where anyone was baptized in Jesus’ TITLES; they were ALL baptized in his NAME (Acts 2:37-42, I Pet 30-31, Acts 22:16, Acts 4:10-12, Col 3:17, Col 2:3-12, Acts 8:5-24, Acts 35-40, Acts 1-6 and 33-48, Acts 18:24-28 and Acts 19:1-6).

    When you baptize in the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, all you are doing is repeating Jesus’ words. The apostles didn’t just repeat his words; they did what he said. They baptized in the NAME, which is JESUS. If you tell someone to go turn off the light; and all they do is repeat your words, Go turn out the light, that light is still on. However, if they actually go and turn off the light, then they are DOING what you said. Today, instead of a couple getting married and the wife taking on her husband’s name, they just live together. It doesn’t matter if they think it’s okay; it isn’t. They are living in sin because they are committing fornication. Why do you think it’s called “pre-marital sex”? Likewise, we become Christ’s bride when we take on his name through baptism. If you do not take on his name, you are not his bride. When a couple is first married, the preacher announces the couple as Mr. and Mrs. xxxx right after he says, “I pronounce you man and wife.” When you are baptized, the name of Jesus is pronounced before you are immersed so that you take on that name when you go into the water. If you truly love Jesus, you must be willing to take on his name just like a woman must be willing to take on her husband’s name when married. Otherwise, it is not legal.

    Over and over again I hear people say, “I’d rather do what Jesus said instead of what Peter said.” What they don’t realize is that they are saying they don’t trust Jesus. Jesus personally trained his apostles. They all taught the very same thing. Then came Paul who also was taught the same thing and preached the same thing. If you think Peter was a idiot and preached the wrong gospel, then why is it that GOD told Cornelius to send for Peter to tell him how to be saved (Acts 10:1-6, 33-48)? GOD then told Peter that some men were coming for him and he was to go with them because HE sent them. Peter preached the same gospel he preached on the day of Pentecost. Acts 10:43-48: To him give all the prophets witness, that THROUGH HIS NAME whosoever believeth in him shall receive REMISSION OF SINS. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the NAME of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. What is the name of the Lord? Is it not JESUS? If you still insist that Peter was an idiot, then that means that GOD was an idiot too. I don’t know about you, but I’m certainly not prepared to call God an idiot. Are you? If God trusted Peter, shouldn’t you?

    • Larry/vietnamvet1971

      First of all…I am a Believer in Jesus Christ…because it is a Relationship & NOT a religion………I will not label myself…..so it is up to each person to follow a religion or follow & Believe on what JESUS did….”It is Finished” for Believers.

      • Ron

        Amen Larry!

      • Larry

        All I can say is PREACH IT BROTHER!!

    • Karen

      Preach it Sister, I beleive exactly as you do. Jesus and his Apostles only formed one Church..I am Oneness Pentecostal also here in Northwest Florida..

  • SebaStian

    One Holy Catholic Apostolic church
    United in truth

    • If you really beleive The Catholic Church is The ONE Holy Apostolic Church…I have some Waterfront Property in Death Valley, California..How many Acres do you need?

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  • Richard

    “Number one, we have NEVER accepted the Catholic church’s formula of baptism, which was created in 325 AD at the time of Constantine. We will never accept it because it is not how the apostles baptized”.

    The Didache is dated to have been written in the first century, with some folks dating it around 80 – 90 AD. The document was referred to by Eusebius (c. 324), Athanasius (367) and Rufinus (c. 380) among others, so the early Christians definitely would be familiar with it.

    The Didache gives us a snapshot of what the early Church both practiced and taught, which is invaluable when you want to look at the development of Christian doctrine. I won’t post the whole thing, but here’s a portion regarding Baptism:

    “But concerning baptism, thus shall ye baptize. Having first recited all these things, baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in living (running) water. But if thou hast not living water, then baptize in other water; and if thou art not able in cold, then in warm. But if thou hast neither, then pour water on the head thrice in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let him that baptizeth and him that is baptized fast, and any others also who are able; and thou shalt order him that is baptized to fast a day or two before”

    Baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
    The use of water.

    This is a couple of hundred years before the date you provided.

    • Peter had the “Keys” given to him by Jesus…Matthew 16, Jesus told him and other Apostles. Peter was the First Preacher, at The First Christian Conversion service, in Jerusalem.
      Acts Chapter two….When the Potential converts heard the message given by Peter, they asked ( verse 37) “Men, and Brethren, WHAT MUST WE DO”?



      Notice please: Peter DID NOT tell them, to come forth, say the sinner’s prayer, shake my hand and your saved.
      Peter never told them to be Baptized, in The Name of the Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost. Because THE NAME of The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost…IS JESUS CHRIST..

    • Preach it Richard, Amen!!

  • Corni

    Organized religion suck, no matter how you look at it. Most of us are brought into it by our earthly parents, some stayed with, some change their minds and move to another, or whatever way it maybe.

    Jesus said NOT to collect our earthly riches, coz it will rust. He said instead we should collect for the humanly invisible Kingdom of God. Which we will received once we believe and TRUST in Him.

    Jesus also said that we don’t need man made churches because our bodies is the Church of Christ. Because its a Host for The Holy Spirit. As long as we follow him, we will meet Him one day, soon I Believe.

    So The End Is Near…
    We all are fighting a common enemy.
    We are going to have to learn how to “WORK” together.
    Or are we going to stand on the side lines, fighting which church is the RIGHT church? Or Who is living in or with what sin? OR worst you don’t see the bible this way or that way, so it the highway to hell with you?
    With the human eye can we see what the relationship another have with God, His Son or The Holy Ghost?

    It pains my heart to see Believers focusing on the small things, instead of preparing for the Big Things coming.

    Peace be with you


    • Dianne

      Hello Corni,
      If you are going to state what Jesus says then you need to quote HIS WORDS and not your own. The King James Bible is full of exact quotes from Jesus. Also using the word “suck”?does not help others to take what you have to say seriously.
      Peace and Blessings, Dianne

  • Apostle Paul stated this; in I Corinthians 9 verse 27: “But I keep my body, and bring it into subjection: lest by any means, when I preach to others, I MYSELF SHOULD BE A CASTAWAY”

    IF there was such thing as “Once Saved, Always Saved” ask yourself why Paul himself stated, he did’not want to wind up a Castaway rather then going to heaven when he died?

    Answer: There is no such thing as “Once Saved/ Always saved”..Amen!

  • Edwitness

    Thank you Geoffrey for your continued and loving stand for the truth. With your perspective in being a former catholic, I would think it would speak volumes to those who are held in her lying grip. And that they would run for their lives from the harlot. Some will. Some won’t. But, it is worth it if there was only one who came to faith as a result of your posts here revealing the truth about the Catholic religion. But, let’s hope for more anyway. 🙂

    Blessings brother:-}

    • Ron

      Amen Edwitness and God Bless!

  • The repentant thief may well have died before Jesus gave up the ghost and said “It is finished.”

    • This is why “The Thief” Was Saved…
      When Jesus died on Calvary, it was still the Law or The Old Testament.

      In The OT, God saved many people like Moses, Abraham, etc, etc. They were saved by their Faith, and devotion. IN the NT, which started when Jesus died, The NT Salvation came into play…read what Apostle told all of them they had to do, to be saved..Acts 2 verses 37-42.

      The Bible says “We are Saved, by Grace” Which is so true…but you must obey the rest of what it says, and obey a of it..Amen

    • Ron

      Amen Sgt Prepper!
      So that doesn’t hold water, because no one knows for sure but I do agree with You!
      God Bless You!

  • Pierre

    Again: lies, perverted Christianity, hate, condemnation, hypocricy, stupidity (cats?), and other blasphemy…. all in the name of Christ. This is the true satanic nature, not the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. And you want us to convert to this religion?  Without repentance and humility and love, fearful judgment awaits and already in the horizon.

    Lastly misunderstanding  misquoting and misinterpreting Bible verses and prophesies as usual. Apocalypse Chap18 Babylon the Great (different from religious babylon chap. 17), is a city representing a country, the last superpower, world political and financial center, corrupt, arrogant, corrupted world leaders, has become the habitation of unclean and hateful spirit (like yours), and all nations have drunk of the wine of her sexual immorality.

  • There is no Hope, with The Pope..Amen

    • Edwitness

      Amen to that Bro Rick 🙂

    • Ron

      With that I will agree.

  • In John 5 verse 39: Jesus tells us to
    “Search the scriptures daily”…This is the key to our understanding of what The Lord expects us ALL to do, to learn, and obey, and put it all in context and have a full understanding especially how to be saved, and living a good Holy Life, being prepared to meet him at any time.No person is promised a long life, so we must concentrate ourselves to read daily, learn, in simply obey what God asks of us.


    • Ron

      No person is promised a long life, but if you get a long life
      Bro Rick if you are under 40 years old, pray you get the Extended Warranty! Mine ran out at 40, do you think I would get to croak early, of course not! ( Sarcasm )

      • Ron,
        I will be 73 in July, still working, still serving the Lord, still in fairly good health.. I want to go in the Rapture. The way our world is going, I think it will happen in the near future!

        • Ron

          Bro Rick I am very glad to hear you are 73 with few health problems! Truly I wouldn’t wish what I have been thru on anyone, but one thing is for sure If they had to go thru I would hope they know the Lord.
          and no truer words could be said by anyone….
          I want to go in the Rapture. The way our world is going, I think it will happen in the near future!
          God Bless! The Rapture is going to happen extremely soon my Brother extremely soon! As Skywatcher said to me we are almost home!

  • David P Douglass

    After reading all the posts on this subject, it is again, very clear that the ‘order of the Bible books’ as we have had them since Constantine reordered them in the 4th century has had the ‘confusing effect’ on the masses since that time.

    Remember, Constantine was failing as a leader to unite the world under Roman Rule, and the ‘Believers in Jesus of Nazareth’ were becoming the only unified religion in the land–Jewish factions sprang up after AD 70 and continued to grow across the region until Mohammad forcefully hijacked the Jewish faith in its weakened state.

    So, any order of the Bible, both OT NT writings, other than Constantine’s was illegal and punishment by death was imposed. Thus the people used the Bible in this order. This order was designed to ‘promote a personal contextual usage’ of the biblical writings–which Constantine despised, viewed as a threat to the Roman Empire.

    This ‘personal contextual usage’ or understanding grew quickly and produced exactly what I see here among Bible readers, as I do everywhere else, as well as down through history.

    Bible Readers, have for the most part, not understood that the order of their Bible is not part of inspiration from God–just the opposite they believe it is and use it as such.

    It’s an addicting drug to have what a reader perceives as “God Word to Them Personally” when in fact it is NOT a personal letter just to you. In fact it is a revelation from God through His select writers to the Jews first–who could and did offer it to non-Jews down through their history–and then secondly to the non-Jews and Jews when the Author Himself created Himself as a human man by virgin birth–no female or male genetics whatsoever.

    It doesn’t occur to most Bible Readers that God did in fact, provide one writing at a time, in a specific order, designed to meet the need of people who could not know their Creator through their own efforts. This means one writing is built on the one preceding it and lays the “CONTEXTUAL FOUNDATION” for the one after it–with the first and last writings being the exception obviously.

    The many meanings and interpretations of the Bible as the result of ‘subjective reasoning as one’s setting and life and times, dictated to them–in essence through their natural philosophy proved by their upbringing.

    God’s Revelation came in an exact order. Genesis was not the first writing God inspired to be written. Constantine is the ‘Father of String Theology’ where a reader at any time in the history of mankind can view, read, learn, the biblical writings IN HIS OWN WAY, stringing one verse that ‘sounds reasonable within their own language and understanding of their own language, any way that seems reasonable TO THEM.

    The end result is “A Total Breakdown in God’s Hermeneutics, which He made simple and easy for anyone who is adhering strictly to the ‘Biblical Writer’s Chair Order’.
    Ask yourself, should a Bible reader start anywhere in the Bible to begin reading? (Watch all the advise be so diverse it causes a headache for all who attempt to give the right advice). Is there a better place to start than another? Are they all OK and this doesn’t really matter because we all have the Holy Spirit guiding us? —Let the Bible Passage Posters Begin NOW.

    Fact is, God is a strictly ordered being and thus, provides only ONE ordered set of revelations down through time, say about 2000 BC to 110 AD using 40 people to write 67 writings in two to three languages depending on geographical locations of the readers.

    Fact: Bible Readers will become misguided by and through their own error as devised by Constantine–the little devil genius that he was. And that error compounds over time spent reading the Bible.

    UNLESS the Bible Reader perhaps tries this:

    READ Job first, for God used this man and his writing to answer every person’s main concern–How does the Creator and Evil work as God’s sees it, and how is mankind responsible to God within this realm of life that we have. Human Philosophy is addressed fully in Job, and so are many other concerns of life that impede a person’s ability to understand God, God’s WAY.

    Once you read Job, you’re ready for “Constitution and Declaration of a People for God’s Name” or Genesis as you used to understanding it–Hebrew means “Head or Beginning of a Nation”, and really has no purpose in enlightening us as to Creation per se, but instead, for the purpose of creating a people NATION for God’s Name on earth.

    Thus the Context for Genesis is Job, and once we see Job who was the king of his nation at that time before there was a People for God’s Name (Israel)the context for the Genesis writing was explained by Moses in Exodus 1-4, where Moses reveals when he received the 10 chapters of Genesis (each chapter starts with, “Now the generations….”) to be used as ‘The Authority’ of Moses by the Creator over Egypt and it’s gods and religion. It was a constitution of Israel and served therefore as a declaration of war against Egypt–Pharaoh after reading Genesis had to go to war against Moses and his people, for Genesis challenged all of Egypt’s constitutional laws.

    From there through the remainder of the OT writings, the hermeneutical proofs are plainly provided to the careful objective reader.

    The NT writings started with a similar type author as Job was, human based writers who presented simple basic human reasoning with little non-human truths to digest. Peter had Mark write of Jesus the Messiah as a MAN, a simple man. And after Mark, James the human brother of Jesus wrote as a simple Jewish man, steeped in Jewish Religious Heretical Usage of the OT who finally came to believe his human brother was indeed God in the flesh.

    From there, the writings of Paul start to grow and mature the group of believers with Galatians and soon after Thessalonians, etc.

    Note that Romans, came only when there was enough educational support within the body of Christ to have it easily understood–Romans is the worst place for a baby believers to start. And Hebrews is not given until after Paul is dead–Paul’s disciples penned or finished the writings of Paul after his death.
    And then John is allowed to write after he responsibly took care of Jesus’ human mother-vehicle Mary in Ephesus under the goddess Diana where she would not be noticed nor sought after.

    John who understood Jesus better than all the disciples, thus was not needed to write for the restoration of elemental truths of Jesus of Nazareth being four generations ago, Jehovah God of the OT, come as a self created human being while still being the ONE GOD.

    It is a mistake everyone makes, to guide young Bible Readers to start with the most mature of God’s revelations, John’s writings. There is a reason God had John write last, and it’s because it’s Post Graduate Revelation, meant for the Old Men to teach the younger etc.
    “Super Spiritualization” is the direct result of Constantine’s evil genius, which by the way, was the same exact psychological warfare technique that Lucifer used on Eve in the Garden–signature is exactly the same, and most of you that post here are tricked by it to this day, for you all say, “Has God said…..” and then you all oppose, attack, defend, act defiant, and maintain your own subjective ordered understanding, which was mostly complete invented by your emotions ‘as you read the Bible you looked within and judge what you thought was truth, by a FEELING YOU FELT AT THE TIME.

    Simply use strict Hermeneutics, that does not change from passage to passage or book to book, keep it consistent no matter how much it doesn’t support your feelings as you read.

    God does NOT USE YOUR FEELINGS TO CREATE HIS TRUTHS. Constantine did that, not God.

    • David P Douglas

      There has always been scoffers, and unbeleivers in God’s Word. The Devil’s,job, is to make possible beleivers into non beleivers.

      Genesis 3 verse 1: Satan asked Eve the following: “Yea, HATH GOD Said”??

  • David P Douglas

    Constantine was an unrepentant Pagan. He claimed he became a Christian, but he never followed anything the Original Apostles taught straight from Jesus, who taught them.

    Apostle Paul warned us about people like him, and thousands of others coming in the future back in the First Century to right now.let’s read what Paul warned the Church, the first and last Church Jesus founded.

    Acts 20 verses 27-31; “For I have not shunned to declare unto you ALL THE COUNSEL OF GOD.

    Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the Church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

    For I know this, that after my departing shall GRACIOUS WOLVES ENTER IN AMONG YOU, NOT SPARING THE FLOCK.

    Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES AFTER THEM.

    Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of 3 years I ceased not to warn EVERY NIGHT AND DAY WITH TEARS”.

  • The most important information you people need to know is that Jesus Christ is our ONLY means of escape from the coming Tribulation, judgment & lake of fire. Kenyan-born Obama IS The Antichrist & Jesuit Pope Francis is his False Prophet. Together with Allah/Satan they form the unholy trinity of these last days. Martial-law and The Rapture will both occur on Obama’s watch when he heads the UN next year.

    • I can envision all this taking place. But we have a ways to go yet to see the actual players in place. Pope Francis fits the MO of the”False Prophet” 85% certain Obama will be in the mix for “The Beast” role.

      • Ron

        Bro Rick I am totally agree, but thankfully neither you nor I will be here for when they take their final roles.

        We really can’t say it with 100% certainty, it is for the left behinds to figure out. But God certainly allows us the

        discernment to be see who can and might fit the bill.

        • Ron
          I agree with this. Obama and Pope Francis are going around pandering to The Muslim leaders. That said, maybe the “Beast” is not revealed to us yet..

          Notice, Pope Francis was elected, after they forced the Pope before him to retire, first time that is ever happned that I know of.

          The Jesuits are clandestine like our Navy Seals, Delta Force, etc. They don’T dress or carry weapons, but they have assassins on the Vatican payroll I beleive.

          One last thing nobody speaks about is,the fact The Vatican has two things going on

          (1) Running The World Wide Church. (2) The Vatican is,a full voting member of The UN. Do we know of any Church claiming Christianity, that has a Representative at the UN which is not called an “Ambassador”, rather a “Papal Nuncio”. This is the Political hidden side of the Vatican. They are without a doubt Religious Politicians. They hide behind the innocence of a Church, while making deals with World leaders.

          Jesus told us, Apostles included,not to indulge in any sort of thing like the Vatican does everyday.

    • Amen!

  • Bobby

    Man many protestan really have gotten away from the teachings of christ just by reading all these comments. All I can say is. Imputed righteousness & imparted righteousness

    Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?
    Psalms 77:13 KJV

    • Bobby.

      Can you give us an example who is,actually gotton away from the teachings of God?


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