The Rapture

The Pretribulation Rapture

While we cannot name the exact date of the Lord’s Return its nearness may be known by the character of the Times. As to this the New Testament gives no uncertain sound. In Dan. 12:4, Dan. 12:9-10, we read, “But thou, 0 Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the Book, even to the ‘TIME OF THE END’: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.. Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the ‘TIME OF THE END.’ Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand; but the WISE SHALL UNDERSTAND.”

 

These words declare that the prophecies of Daniel were to be “shut up” and “sealed” until the “TIME OF THE END.” This expression does not mean the “end of Time, ” but is the angelic messenger’s way of referring to the “Last Days” of the “Times of the Gentiles.” At which time he declares that the Book will be “unsealed, ” and “knowledge shall be increased.” What is here meant is “prophetic knowledge” of the things recorded in the Book of Daniel and other prophetic writings of the Scriptures.

This is made clear by the statement that only the “wise” shall understand. That is, those who are enlightened by the Holy Spirit, and not those who merely have intellectual knowledge, for the wicked SHALL NOT UNDERSTAND. How wonderfully this is true of these days. The Higher Critics have labored hard to discredit the Book of Daniel, but without avail, for the Book is more studied than ever, and is being “unsealed” by Holy Spirit enlightened students of the Word of God, who clearly see that we have reached the “Time of the End, ” and are living in the closing days of the “Times of the Gentiles.”

Click here to read our 7-part series on the Rapture and the Tribulation…

 

  • #1 written by Marcie
    about 3 years ago

    Reading Daniel one of the things that impresses me is the life of King Nebacuznezzer…he goes from a pagon king to a worshiper of the Living God due to what God does in his life.
    I like this diagram because it clearly shows the “Time of the Gentiles” in relation to the major governments. Also, showing the statue on the horizontal clearly shows the ages.
    Could you indicate on this chart the 7 feasts of God too?
    Jesus is seen in these feasts:
    First Coming:
    Passover, the Lamb of God~Crucifixion
    Feast of Unlevened Bread~Jesus Christ sinless death
    First Fruits~Jesus Christ the First Risen from the dead.
    Pentecost~Holy Spirit given to Believers in Christ
    Second Coming of the Messiah:
    Rosh Shananna~Gathering, Sounding of the Trumpet, Day of the Lord~Time of Jacob’s Trouble~but they will be saved out of it.
    Yom Kippur~Great Day of Attonement
    Tabernacles~God and man finally tabernacle together

  • #2 written by Dirk
    about 3 years ago

    ‎1Pe 3:15 But in your hearts set Christ apart as holy [and acknowledge Him] as Lord. Always be ready to give a logical defense to anyone who asks you to account for the hope that is in you, but do it courteously and respectfully. [Isa. 8:12, 13.]

    The bible does say some specific things and for a pre trib or mid trib rapture to be scriptural, there must be several things that are actually IN THE BIBLE.

    1. There must be another passage in the Bible that speaks of another gathering of the people of God to Jesus besides Matt 24 : 29-31 and that states it occurs before the END of the tribulation.

    2. There must be a passage that states either II Thes 2:1-4 is not true or does not apply to all Christians or there cannot be a pre trib rapture at all!

    3. There must be a passage that states there are more than 2 resurrections or that the first resurrection is dividied into at least 2 parts, because we are told in Matt 24:29-31 of the first resurrection and it is in agreement with the passage in Rev 20 about the first resurrection which happens AFTER the END of the trib.

    4. I Thes 4 is NOT a proof of a pre trib rapture. It does state there will
    be a gathering, but due to what it talks about, it is in absolute agreement with Matt 24:29-31 which says the gathering occurs after the END of the trib.

    Now, there are more, but no one can show any scriptural evidence for any of those questions.

    NO ONE.
    They cannot because they do not exist in the Bible.

    Many people may believe many things. I ran into someone last week that did not believe 2/3 of the New testament because he believed Paul disagree with his doctrines and rejected Paul (????? and not his doctrine, go figure)

    I just met another person online who does not believe the New testament is scripture.

    Just because these people believe these things, does not make those beliefs true! There MUST BE a scriptural basis for believing what we believe.

    The above 4 points must be in the Bible for a pre or mid trib rapture to be true because there are passages that state there is a gathering of God’s people to Jesus after the END of the Trib and it is a description of the Frist Resurrection.

    Therefore, there MUST be scriptural evidence for these doctrines if they are indeed TRUE. If there is no scriptural evidence that meets the above criteria, then the whole idea of a pre or mid trib rapture is FALSE. It is a LIE from satan.

    Now people will attempt to say many things, but if a pre trib or mid trib raptur is real, then the BIBLE will say so and the above passages will be in the Bible somewhere.

    Just because a person can explain or put together a bunch of verses and say the Bible teaches something, DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE!
    A true doctrine must agree with the FULL COUNSEL of God and that includes Matt 24:29-31; II Thes 2:1-4. I Cor 15 that speaks of the dead being resurrected prior to the living, etc.

    A true doctrine MUST AGREE WITH ALL OF THESE PASSAGES. Unfortunately, no one can seem to find a verse, even ONE, that says there is a gathering of God’s people before the end of the trib.

    So, it cannot be true. That means, an awful lot of people are believing and Preaching A LIE!

    If that is not important, I do not know what is. I care deeply for everyone and want to see them walking with the Lord in HIS TRUTH, not some man-made lie. So I have asked questions which no one wants to answer. I am not causing dissension, I am asking HONEST QUESTIONS.

    I know what the Pre Trib arguments are, I used to believe pre trib, but then I saw some discrepancies and asked God about it. WHen I became willing to be WRONG about what I believed, HE showed me His Truth.

    We cannot set out to PROVE a doctrine. We must go to the FULL COUNSEL of God and see what He teaches us through the WHOLE BIBLE. Once we know ALL the facts, then we ask Him what they mean and HE will tell us His Truth IF we are willing to lay down our ideas in humility and allow HIM to be God and King over what we believe.

    I can “prove” using scriptures that anyone should go commit suicide. This is done by IGNORING all the verses that contradict that act and using just a few that could be used to support it. This does NOT make suicide something that is desirable.

    In the same way, a pre trib rapture may sound like a nice idea, BUT IT MUST AGREE with the WHOLE BIBLE for it to be possible.

    I have places only 4 questions using verses from the Bible that speak SPECIFICALLY AGAINST a pre trib rapture.

    In order for there to be a pre trib rapture, YOU must provide the scriptural proofs those questions ask for.

    IF YOU CANNOT DO THIS, then there is NO PRE TRIB RAPTURE, no matter how you feel about it, no matter how many more verses you think support it.

    WHY? Because the WHOLE BIBLE is just as true as the rest. Matt 24:29-31 is just as true as any argunment you may use. THere fore, there MUST be another gathering of God’s people before the end of the trib, for this gathering in Matt 24 occurs AFTER THE END of the trib. And of course the other 3 questions must also be answered as well.

    I know what you say about II Thes 2:6-8. Yes, I know you say that is the Holy Spirit or the Church being removed. BUT THE BIBLE DOES NOT SAY THIS and that idea contradicts what is stated in II THES 2:1-4. So your idea about the later verses referring to the rapture is once again FALSE.

    The Bible does NOT contradict itself.

    Just because you cannot understand how this works, how all christians can go through the trib does not mean it is not true. You are not God. Neither am I. But God will NEVER contradict Himself.

    That means as I have stated above, YOU must provide scriptural answers for those 4 questions that do not contradict the Bible ANYWHERE!

    If you can do this fine, then I will conceed that you are correct and admit my error.

    If you cannot, will you do the same??????

  • #3 written by lula smith
    about 3 years ago

    Maranatha,come Lord Jesus.

  • #4 written by Dirk
    about 3 years ago

    Yes, Marantha, Come Lord Jesus.

    BUT He will NOT come until AFTER the END of the Tribulation!

  • #5 written by Charmaine Davis
    about 3 years ago

    I agree with Mr. Dirk. I used to believe in a “rapture.” It sounds easy and fun — to us Americans! Once I became aware of the serious tortures, torments, and killings of fellow believers in other countries even to this DAY, my heart was struck. THEY ARE HAVING THEIR TIME OF TESTING ALREADY! Many have lost houses, land, businesses, children and their very lives for Jesus. Many of them were turned in by their own mothers, sisters, and other family members for just being a Christ follower! Where is their rapture? Where is their rescue?

    God will save us (His people) from His wrath, but we will not escape the wrath of man. This will be a time of purifying and unifying and sanctifying of the church! Please follow the advice of Dirk! Put aside your cherished beliefs and let God speak. Examine the Scriptures and examine yourself. The rapture theory is a dangerous false doctrine. The church did not believe in this until some woman in the 18th century had a “vision” concerning the rapture of the church!

    This false doctrine has created lazy, carnal, selfish Christians! We are only concerned with our own safety and comfort. Our fervancy for witnessing to our relatives, neighbors and friends has dwindled over the last two hundred years. Why? I lay it all at the feet of the “rapture theory.” Our nation has become godless because we have favored the words of men over the words of God! We must repent, return to our first Love and follow Him!

    It is very important that we get this right! We must work for the Lord while it is day and while we have a little time left. The very ones we have neglected to show the truth of Jesus to, will be the very ones cutting our throats when the Great Tribulation hits the entire planet. We must prepare ourselves to endure until the end! We must submit to God, repent, pray constantly, memorize Scripture, obey the Scriptures, TEACH OUR CHILDREN God’s Word, and make disciples!
    We must start today! The time is at hand.

    Its time for a Christian revolution! The arms we take up will be folded in prayer, the government we humbly petition will be God Himself and our chant will be “Salvation belongs to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb!” Fight on brothers and sisters! We don’t need twitter and Facebook when we have the Holy Spirit groaning within us — then we can have Hope and Change that is everlasting! Amen!

  • #6 written by Andrew M
    about 3 years ago

    It’s interesting that the author brings up Dan 12:9 “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.”

    There is another place in the bible that we see similar phrasing. Rev 22:10 “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.” Why would God tell him not to seal them up, if there would be at least 2000 years before it was to take place, just the same as Daniel?

    Why was Daniel to seal away the words of his prophecy? Because they were for a future time, not his time. Why was John told NOT to seal up the words of prophecy revealed to him? Because they WERE for his time and were happening soon. “Behold, I am coming soon…” (Rev 22:12)

  • #7 written by Adrian
    about 3 years ago

    I have several friends that don’t believe in a pre-trib or mid-trib Rapture. But they also don’t believe in certain elements in Revelation such as The Beast, The False Prophet, The locusts, The Mark of The Beast etc. They say all of these things are “spiritual/figurative” & not literal. I believe they identify themselves as Amillennial?

    I don’t understand why they interpret everything in Revelation is “spiritualized” or figurative, yet they give a LITERAL interpretation to everything else in the history of The Bible (i.e., Noah’s Ark, Jonah & The Great Fish, etc.)

    Thoughts???

  • #8 written by Daniel Knezacek
    about 3 years ago

    Hello,

    I have answered all of your objections in my new book “The Spirit of Prophecy”, and more. I won’t repeat it all here, but I will say a couple of things: In the bible the word “heaven” has three meanings. It can mean the atmosphere, the space between the stars, and it can mean God’s home.

    The word heaven in Matt 24:31 does not refer to God’s home, nor to the stars, but to the atmosphere. These elect are picked up by angels and held aloft as Jesus brings destruction on all those with the mark of the Beast. This is also the time when the mountains will fall and those hiding in caves will be crushed. These are people in their natural bodies who will repopulate the planet at the end of the Tribulation period.

    These people are not the Church, because the true Church has the Holy Spirit indwelling them. When Jesus calls He will empower us to come to him in the clouds. We won’t need angels to get us there. There are lots of people who call themselves Christians who don’t have the Holy Spirit, and won’t be going when He calls.

    Something else: There will be a pseudo-tribulation period. This is the time Jesus referred to as “wars and rumors of wars”. This period will take several years and will include the wars of Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38 & 39. Rome will be destroyed during this period and the world will say this is fulfillment of Revelation 17 and 18. They will then be looking for a messiah to bring peace to the world, and that is the time the real Antichrist will sneak up from behind them! The real Antichrist is not from Europe but from somewhere much closer to Israel. The European Antichrist is a decoy, a patsy, meant to throw you off the scent.

    Remember Jesus said “when they are saying peace and safety, sudden destruction will come upon them and they shall not escape”? The reason they think it is time for peace and safety is because they think Armageddon is over, but really it hasn’t even begun!

    I have fleshed out these theories in my book “The Spirit of Prophecy”. If you want all the scriptural references you can buy that book. I have backed up every statement with several references, and challenge anyone opposed to prove me wrong by the scriptures, read in context…I dare you!

  • #9 written by Dirk
    about 3 years ago

    Daniel,

    I already have proven you wrong. I posted the scriptures that PROVE a pre trib rapture is IMPOSSIBLE and so is a mid trib rapture.

    I have asked everyone to show me in the Bible another gathering of God’s people to Himself that happens at some other time than when Jesus said it would happen in Matt 24:29-31.

    WHERE is that gathering in the Bible? You cannot provide it.

    What about II Thes 2:1-4 that says specifically that the Antichrist MUST be revealed and declare himself to be God in the temple of God BEFORE the church is gathered to the Lord?

    Where does the Bible contradict itself by saying we will be gathered to Jesus BEEFORE the Trib?

    Where is a second part to the First resurrection, For the Bible says there are ONLY 2. AND Paul clearly states that the dead in Christ will be gathered BEFORE those who are still alive on the earth. YET the 1st Resurrection occurs after the END of the Trib according to Jesus in Matt and John in Rev 20.

    You may be able to provide verses to twist the scriptures to make it appear there is this rapture before the trib, BUT, in order for this to actually happen the above verses MUST be in the Bible,

    AND THEY ARE NOT!

    Therefore, your book has no more authority than Grant Jeffrey’s who lied when he said the early church believed in a pre trib rapture. He had to have purposely misquote and leave out passages in the early christian books he used to “prove” his theory

    BUT IT WAS A LIE just as your book is a lie!

    I DARE YOU to post RIGHT HERE the passages that MUST be in the Bible for there to be anything besides a POST TRIB GATHERING of the Saints to Jesus.

    There are NONE! There is no second gathering of God’s people, there is no verse that says Paul was in error in II Thes 2:1-4, there is no thrid resurrection or the first resurrection divided into 2 or more parts.

    NONE of this is in the Bible. BUT IT MUST BE for there to be a pre trib or mid trib rapture.

    SO, where are THOSE verses, Daniel?

    If you cannot show everyone right here, then your book is WORTHLESS; and you are promoting a lie to make money off of.

  • #10 written by Exposing Lies
    about 3 years ago

    Mr Dirk,
    You know nothing about the truth!! You are right about one thing you stated . . . Jesus will not come back to earth until the final battle. But He will come one time before that, but it says He’ll come in the clouds and the “Saints” that are a sleep in the ground and all that are still living will meet Him in the air. I could provide plenty of Scripture to back that, but I wouldn’t waste my time. You will be one that will eventually be in front of Jesus . . . and you will say didn’t I cast out demons . . . didn’t we do this and that, and Jesus will say, “get away from me you evil doers, I never knew you. In James it states that if you cause one little one to fall, you’d be better off with a millstone around your neck and cast into the sea. The Bible, also said in that day 2 workers will be in the field, one will suddenly be gone and the other one left behind. It says we will not know the day or the hour in which this will happen . . . but always be on watch. He said you foolish people. You can tell the seasons as the buds on the trees start budding. You say tomorrow will be a nice day as the sun shines red as it sets, but woah to those that aren’t prepared. It say 2 will be sleeping in bed and all of a sudden, one will be gone and one will be left. Would any of this matter or why would there be such distinctions? Now, it says when He returns, all His saints will come back with Him riding white horses. Wait why would His word tell us that “ALL” His saints would return with Him? And if you know the Word so much, you can tell us differently Mr. Dirk. And also the Word says when He comes down to earth that final time and His feet touch the mountains around Jerusalem they will be flattened to the ground. Now wait, one time He’ll come back in the clouds whereas His feet never touch the earth and the last time His feet will touch the earth . . . THOSE ARE 2 DIFFERENT TIMES!! And if you know so much about the Word, then you would have to agree with this statement . . . the Bible says that when the antichrist come into his power, he will make an agreement with Israel for 7 years. NOT 7 YEARS AND A DAY!! NOT 6 YEARS AND 364 DAYS, BUT 7 YEARS EXACTLY!! So when that agreement tells everyone that we know when Jesus will return exactly to the day. So what we don’t know is that, not even Jesus Himself knows the day or the hour will be except our Father God knows. THOSE ARE JESUS’ WORDS!! He also said that the true saints were lucky because He will have the time shortened so His saints will not have to deal with all the trouble and terror. NOW YOU GO LOOK UP ALL THOSE PASSAGES, SINCE YOU ARE CAUSING MANY LITTLE ONES TO FALL!!(little ones are young Christians not little kids) I prayed for you, because you’re gonna need it!! I will not be posting here again . . . because I know the truth. Hopefully you’ll find the truth or you will continue to come as an Angel of light. And finally, if you really knew the truth . . . then you would know in the original scrolls written in the original language used back then, you would know that it does discuss the Rapture. The Greek word being Rapto or to be brought up to. So hopefully you will not cause many others to fall, so you too can be brought up into the clouds to be with Jesus, before the Rapture takes place. Or prove to me in the Word, why all these words are in the Bible.

  • #11 written by Dirk
    about 3 years ago

    Exposing lies,

    WHERE is the VERSE that speaks of this other gathering of the saints BEFORE the gathering after the end of the TRIB?

    If can’t show all of us, then it does NOT HAPPEN!

    You have not shown us in the BIble where there is another gathering of God’s people to Jesus besides the one in Matt 24:29-31

    SO, for all of your twisting of the Bible to suit your prupose, you are the one who is lying. because you have not 1 verse that speaks of the gathering you are talking about, NOR does the verse you do mention say anything about WHEN it will occur!

    You are blowing SMOKE!

    And working for satan.

  • #12 written by Dirk
    about 3 years ago

    Let me add this.

    You have NOT answered the questions I have asked. YOu have tried to confuse the issue with other lies.

    ANSWER THE QUESTIONS I HAVE ASKED WITH THE VERSE THAT MUST BE IN THE BIBLE FOR THERE TO BE A RAPTURE THAT OCCURS BEFORE THE END OF THE TRIB!

    You have not done this. ALL you have done is attempt to discredit what I have said so that you do not have to FACE those questions.

    BUT THE FACT REMAINS, you cannot answer those questions because the Bible does NOT teach anything except a post trib gathering of the saints to Jesus.

  • #13 written by rachel eason
    about 3 years ago

    dirk i have read your post and i must say it seems you have an anger issue. it seems that you want to believe in the rapture but cant. i am concerned for you because if you are a christian born again and with the holy spirit, then honey when you pick up your bible at night to read the word of god himself, pray first that the lord give you full understanding. the followers of christ whom wrote the scriptures were full of the holy spirit, therefor you need to have the holy spirit for understanding. your in my prayers. p.s not everything can be understood for we are human. i believe in the rapture of the church no doubt. but even if i am wrong, im not hurting anyone else for believing it, its just that when i read that is what i feel in my heart. and since jesus lives there now, that why i know it will happen. the 144 thousand that it speaks of in rev i believe are the people who were saved during trib and the lukewarm that were not watching. you should read that and put the puzzle together. you have to cross reference in the bible. to read it front to back will only cofuse u more but there are plenty of scrips as you were told above that proves it. again i will keep you in prayer and god bless you brother.

  • #14 written by Dirk
    about 3 years ago

    Rachel,

    Instead of trying to psychoanalyze me,

    Just answer the questions. If you cannot, then a pre trib rapture is impossible!

  • #15 written by Dirk
    about 3 years ago

    By the Way, rachel,

    I have no anger problem. Why do you find it necessary to avoid answering a simple question by trying to turn this on me?

    ALL I have done is ask a few questions that nobody here seems to want to answer, or even deal with. They want to talk about everything else including my character, but no one, including you, Rachel, is willing to answer those 4 questions. Just so we all know what they are, I shal ask them once more.

    The bible does say some specific things and for a pre trib or mid trib rapture to be scriptural, there must be several things that are actually IN THE BIBLE.

    1. There must be another passage in the Bible that speaks of another gathering of the people of God to Jesus besides Matt 24 : 29-31 and that states it occurs before the END of the tribulation. Where is it?

    2. There must be a passage that states either II Thes 2:1-4 is not true or does not apply to all Christians or there cannot be a pre trib rapture at all! Where is it?

    3. There must be a passage that states there are more than 2 resurrections or that the first resurrection is dividied into at least 2 parts, because we are told in Matt 24:29-31 of the first resurrection and it is in agreement with the passage in Rev 20 about the first resurrection which happens AFTER the END of the trib. Whereis it in the bible?

    4. I Thes 4 is NOT a proof of a pre trib rapture. It does state there will be a gathering, but due to what it talks about, it is in absolute agreement with Matt 24:29-31 which says the gathering occurs after the END of the trib. Where is PROOF, please post the verses.

    NOW, once more, I ask ALL OF YOU, where is your proof? If you cannot provide it, then you are promoting a lie!

  • #16 written by Ted
    about 3 years ago

    my goodness the arogance of the rapture theory is horrifing ….. i have searched and searched scripture for many years to figuer out how i can be part of this so called rapture that every preacher ive ever met believes in and ive come up empty … the fact is there is no rapture God will take up the already dead martyrd in his name and the 144,000 isreal tribal members … everyone else will have to fight on earth against the words of the devil and his son …. so instead of trying to spin your delusion of im safe from the wrath of God, how about trying to help fellow christians keep the faith during the worst times of being a christian that we are facing, tribulation is gonna suck for christians but we need to stay prepared and strong that it is all part of Gods plan, oh and to all those not paying attention our fellow christians are falling for the muslim faith … we need to make it our duty to let them know the koran is the anti-christs and his father satans bible… remember satans goal is to be better then God if you read the koran its the bible with words changed and parables changed to fit with satans agenda… destroy God and his followers… us as christians need to stop this from happening to our brothers and sisters! may God bless us all, Amen

  • #17 written by amazinggrace2true
    about 3 years ago

    I believed until recently that All would go through the Great Tribulation. However, after reading the Bible I cannot see this happening. One, because GOD waited until Lot and his Family were safely out of the way before he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Two, because GOD also waited for Noah and his family to be safely in the Ark before he released the Flood on the World. No where on the Bible does GOD release his wrath on his people. Thirdly, in Luke chapter 21 vs 25-28 parallells with Revelation chapter 6 vs 12-13. Then in Revelation Chapter 7 vs 9 highlights the “Rapture”. There is also a promise to those who keep the word of Patience: Revelation chapter 3 vs 10-11. The Bible also refers to the days of Noah in Matthew 24 vs 38-39… everything was normal to those on earth then, “eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage” Again in vs 40-41, It gives an image of normality not of wrath.. does it not? i cant see anyone marrying, eating or drinking as normal when the seals are broken and the other judgements are poured out on this earth. Their will be famines, no food, animals dying etc in those days. The bible also quotes that “One will be taken and the other one left” “In a twinkling of an eye” Another reason why I cant see True believers of Christ go through the Great Tribulation is because we would know the time frame of the Anti-christ.. we as readers of GOD’s Word will know the beginning of the 7 year peace treaty with Israel, then the breaking of it after three and a half years, then the events before and after this time. Jesus tells us we will not know when he is coming for us; Matthew 24 vs 42-45. i feel we are going through “The signs” that Jesus mentioned and he also said “Do not concern yourselves with these things as they must come to pass”. “Look up” Jesus said, watch for the signs in heaven. Read the Parable of the Ten Virgins and understand that 5 were taken because they were ready for the Bridegoom, the others were not! and they will go through GODs Wrath along with the non believers.. he warns them not to take the Mark of the Beast.

  • #18 written by amazinggrace2true
    about 3 years ago

    There is another reason why I see the Rapture happen before the seals are broken. In Revelation 4 vs 1 : After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. As like those “Saints” that are raptured they will know what is about to happen when the first seal is broken.

  • #19 written by amazinggrace2true
    about 3 years ago

    Ag II Thessalonians 2:3, 4. “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”
    The word ‘falling away’ is ‘departure’. It does not say ‘falling away (departure) from the faith’ as in Timothy, so we must see what departure he is talking about from the context. Then v1 you see it is the departure of the church from the earth in the rapture, then the antichrist will be revealed.
    The Greek word “apostasia” in 2 Thess. 2:3 also has the Greek article “the” in front of it, in the Greek text, which makes it, not a general “going away”, or “departure”, but “The Departure”, a special EVENT, that the reader is expected to already know about.

    In other words, the use of the article “the” with “apostasia” in 2 Thess. 2:3 indicates that Paul expects the Thessalonian Christians to already understand that this is the title of an event, and he expects them to already know what it means.

    Had the Apostle Paul already taught the Thessalonians about an “EVENT” that could be described as a “departure”, or “going away”? Absolutely, yes.

    Paul had already taught the Thessalonian Church about the EVENT, of the Catching Away and “Departure” of the Church in 1 Thess 4:13-18.

    In 2 Thess 2:5, Paul says don’t you remember? When I was with you I taught you about these things?

    I don’t see where Paul taught them at all about “a falling away from the truth” in his first letter, but he taught them about the Rapture of the church in at least five passages in 1st Thessalonians:

    1. 1 Thess 1:10 “And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead,[even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.”
    2. 1 Thess 2:19 “For what [is] our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? [Are] not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?”

    3. 1 Thess 3:13 “To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.”

    4. 1 Thess 4:13 – 5:10:

    Verse 13 “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

    14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    We can clearly see that it is not the time when Jesus comes back to reign a thousand years x

  • #20 written by amazinggrace2true
    about 3 years ago

    Totally agree with you, I have just written evidence to prove there is a pre rapture before GODs Wrath. Its great to see someone else that believes this x Many Blessings x

  • #21 written by Ted
    about 3 years ago

    amazinggrace2true, what bible are you reading my goodness people this is what im talking about you added that rapture line …. blasphemy this is total blasphemy … i can just imagine Jesus turning over all the tables in your church for selling such lies …. wow people challenge these things she or he just used revelations 4:1 and added to it … 4:1 SAYS then as i looked, i saw a door standing open in heaven and the same voice i had heard before spoke to me like a trumpet blast. the voice said “come up here and i will show you what must happen after this” 2. And instantly i was in the spirit and i saw a throne in heaven and someone sitting on it. the one sitting on the throne was a brilliant as gemstones- like jasper and carnelian. and the glow of an emerald circled his throne like a rainbow. twenty-four thrones surrounded him, and twenty-four elders sat on them…… this is about the elders that endlessly lead worship and lay their crowns at jesus’s feet not the rapture so i say to you amazinggrace2true BLASPHEMY!!!

  • #22 written by Dirk
    about 3 years ago

    amazinggrace2true

    As I have asked EVERYONE on this thread, I ask you. Please answer these questions FROM THE BIBLE.

    If you cannot answer them, then any rapture EXCEPT a post trib rapture is impossible>>>

    The bible does say some specific things and for a pre trib or mid trib rapture to be scriptural, there must be several things that are actually IN THE BIBLE.

    1. There must be another passage in the Bible that speaks of another gathering of the people of God to Jesus besides Matt 24 : 29-31 and that states it occurs before the END of the tribulation. Where is it?

    2. There must be a passage that states either II Thes 2:1-4 is not true or does not apply to all Christians or there cannot be a pre trib rapture at all! Where is it?

    3. There must be a passage that states there are more than 2 resurrections or that the first resurrection is dividied into at least 2 parts, because we are told in Matt 24:29-31 of the first resurrection and it is in agreement with the passage in Rev 20 about the first resurrection which happens AFTER the END of the trib. Whereis it in the bible?

    4. I Thes 4 is NOT a proof of a pre trib rapture. It does state there will be a gathering, but due to what it talks about, it is in absolute agreement with Matt 24:29-31 which says the gathering occurs after the END of the trib. Where is PROOF, please post the verses.

    NOW, once more, I ask ALL OF YOU, where is your proof? If you cannot provide it, then you are promoting a lie!

  • #23 written by amazinggrace2true
    about 3 years ago

    No where does GOD change. dirk I have clearly stated through Biblical passages that those who truely believe the Gospel of Christ are Raptured before the Wrath of the Lord. I have Posted the Proof. It is up to you whether you are one of those 5 virgins that are taken or one of the 5 that are left behind. You have not read my post properly or even given thought to it. It is up to you what you believe but do not ever put down a fellow believer…. And Ted, you have not even opened your eyes to my comments in what the Word of GOD does say. As with both you and Dirk, you clearly have a closed mind set when reading veryone elses comments. I once believed that we would all go through the rapture but I was lead to these verses.. through the guidence of the Holy Spirit … why?? Because No where ever does GOD Change and No where in his Word does he pour out wrath on “His People” another is when Jesus does come back on this Earth he comes back with “His Saints” how can he come back with his Saints when they are still sleeping in the Earth or they are still on this earth??? The answer is that the Rapture occurs before the Wrath of GOD. And Ted do not tell me im being Blasphemous, who are you to judge anyone? I do not judge you, and remember “you will be judge according to how you judge” READ what I have written, study it with an open mind not a closed heart in stubborness. i have raised some interesting points. GOD Bless and may the LORD be with us all x

  • #24 written by amazinggrace2true
    about 3 years ago

    what rapture line did I add? I clearly stated that when the Bible was translated the translators put “Falling away” but in the original text in Greek it is “THE Falling away” have you a problem with the Truth? I ask you to go and research this like i have and then come back to me x

  • #25 written by amazinggrace2true
    about 3 years ago

    I have copied you questions and i will answer them… Blessings x

  • #26 written by amazinggrace2true
    about 3 years ago

    1. 1 Thess 1:10 “And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead,[even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.”
    Is there going to be another Wrath to come?? The only Wrath I can clearly see is when Our LORD Jesus opens the seals which is the beginning of GODs Wrath.

  • #27 written by Ted
    about 3 years ago

    listen i think maybe dirk and i are coming off wrong here …. this arguement id the main reason we r stuck at spreading the good news the “fear tactic” i think what dirk and i are saying is stop using this tactic it doesnt help and its very unbiblical… no amazinggrace2true you know what you did and i called you out on it you added to revelations 4… it says in the bible it is our duty to do so to fellow brothers and sisters my own brother who is a minister did that to me today as well and he agreed with what dirk and i are saying there is no pre or mid rapture … we differ on the end of the world thing where i think God is going to not destroy the earth he does … but rapture we agree is false to be pre or mid… anyways my point is that we need to teach and tell others about the love Jesus has for everyone not the hate notion of killing everyone that goes against him … Jesus died for everyone … now we still have the will to deny that but so does a drunk deny they have a problem do we show them hate or do we help them find the path… amazinggrace2true i can bet that you wouldnt even speak to me in person because im covered in tats and peircings and wear black and a chained wallet but if you looked closer you’d see my tats consist of things promoting christianity one of which says Jesus in english greek and hebrew writing but you wouldnt see that would you …. my point is set the hate and fear mongering aside and look at the bigger picture

  • #28 written by amazinggrace2true
    about 3 years ago

    In Reference to Dirk’s questions om Matthew 24 vs 29-31 x
    1. It reads like the rapture. Even if this passage were strictly and only speaking of the supernatural gathering together of the Jews carried one by one by Angels to another location, that alone is certainly similar to various rapture events such as happened to Philip in Acts 8:39-40 who was transported from place to place, and to Elijah in 2 Kings 2:11-12

    2. The parallel passage from the gospel of Mark 13:27 says they are gathered “from… earth to… heaven.” The rapture is a gathering of people into the air, 1 Thess 4:17.

    3. It is “A great sound of A trumpet” in Matthew and not necessarily “the great trumpet” of Isaiah 27:13. Why is Matthew more vague, saying “a trumpet” instead of “the great trumpet”? Is it because two events are in view? The point is that a trumpet sounding blast is a key element of the rapture mentioned in 1 Thess 4:16 “the trump of God” and 1 Cor 15:52, “at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound.”

    4. It mentions the son of man “coming in the clouds”, as does 1 Thess 4:17. “…caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air…”

    5. Matthew 24 is filled with double references. These passages can easily be describing BOTH the pretribulation rapture, and the posttribulation gathering together of the Jews. I believe it is typical of the Lord to conceal things in prophecies like this. It hides things from unbelievers, and makes the study of his word glorious, bringing glory to God. (“It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.” –Prov 25:2)

    Furthermore, a third event might also be in view which is the posttribulation return from out of heaven of those who were previously raptured. The return of the saints from out of heaven following Jesus Christ is pictured in Revelation 19. The first reason for this idea is that Matthew writes they are gathered “from one end of heaven to the other” and not gathered from the earth as does Mark. The second reason is the “great trumpet”, because this is associated with the Day of Atonement, which should be fulfilled at the end of the tribulation with the defeat of Satan. The third reason might be that the two events, the gathering of the Jews from the earth, and the gathering of the saints from heaven, all together into Christ’s presence at his return, happens at the same time. If these two gatherings from the earth and heaven happen at once, it would make sense that these two events are blended together in scripture. Thus, the term “elect” can easily refer to both the Jews and to the previously raptured Christians.

    6. Matt 24:30 appears to be the rapture because of the mention of the sign, “the sign of the Son of man in heaven”. Those who deny the pretribulation rapture have challenged, “Where does the Bible ever describe two returns in one verse?”. Well, in Matt 24:30, the “son of man” is mentioned twice, first as a sign in heaven, and then, after the nations mourn, he is coming in the clouds. The pretribulation rapture would, indeed, be a sign for the nations.

    As an aside, if the rapture is “the sign of the Son of man in heaven”, then it supports the argument that Jesus remains in heaven at the rapture. This is an important point, because it refutes the argument from Acts 3:21 that Jesus cannot return before the “time of restitution of all things” which is supposed to be after the tribulation. This argument is refuted because Jesus remains in the sky, in heaven, at the rapture. (Sky and heaven are nearly interchangable terms in scripture.) Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    I wonder, if the sign of the son of man in heaven is not the rapture, then what else would it be? And there is no statement in Matt 24:30 that the three sequential events need happen simultaneously. There could easily be 7 years from the sign to the coming of Christ in glory. After all, there needs to be time for the nations to mourn, which would be the tribulation.

    Matthew 24:
    36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
    37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
    39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    This description in Matt 24:36-41 where people are living their lives as usual, is out of place with the description of how they will act after the beginning of the stellar signs and the Day of the Lord when the nations are mourning, as described in verses 29-31. The mourning in grief and lamenting seems most appropriate for the beginning of the tribulation, and anger is appropriate for the end.

    Thus, we have three descriptions of the emotional state of the nations, which represent three different times. Life as usual before the rapture at the start of the tribulation. Mourning after the rapture in the tribulation. And finally, anger at the end of the tribulation at Armageddon. This also shows that the description of Matt 24:29-31 is apt for the beginning of the great tribulation, at the start of the Day of the Lord.

    Isaiah 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
    7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man’s heart shall melt:
    8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

    Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
    16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    Isaiah 2:19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

    Amos 5:16 Therefore the LORD, the God of hosts, the LORD, saith thus; Wailing shall be in all streets; and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to wailing.

    Zephaniah 1:10 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD, that there shall be the noise of a cry from the fish gate, and an howling from the second, and a great crashing from the hills.
    11 Howl, ye inhabitants of Maktesh, for all the merchant people are cut down; all they that bear silver are cut off.

    Joel 1:13 Gird yourselves, and lament, ye priests: howl, ye ministers of the altar: come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God: for the meat offering and the drink offering is withholden from the house of your God.

    Thus, the emotional state of the nations may be a strong clue to what is being described here, which is the tribulation of the Day of the Lord.

    Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    The tribes of the earth mourning seems to most appropriately describe the start of the day of the Lord, just after the pretribulation rapture. This is long before the world has turned angry at Armageddon.

    9. They vs. You
    And there is another key word in this verse: THEY. It says “they shall see the Son of man”… Now, if seeing Christ return after the tribulation was the blessed hope of the believer, wouldn’t the appropriate word be YOU? Why the change, unless it signifes that faithful believers, YOU, are no longer there?

    Luke also contains the different words “they” and “you”, but also includes a phrase that might be a final warning to be especially ready, which suggests to be ready for the rapture.

    Luke 21:27 And then shall “they” see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
    28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up “your” heads; for “your” redemption draweth nigh.

    The question must be asked, why “didn’t” Jesus say in verse 27, “and then shall YOU see the Son of man coming”? The answer is that YOU would be behind Jesus, following after him as depicted in Rev 19. The armies that follow him out of heaven would include faithful believers such as YOU.

    The phrase “when these things begin to come to pass” indicates a pretribulation rapture before all these things come to pass. It does not say “after these things completely come to pass…” Nor does it say “when these things begin to come to pass, hide your heads, for you will have to endure tribulation for several years”. And a few verses later, Luke records one of the strongest pretribulation verses in the Bible:

    Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

    In order to escape the abomination of desolation, which is among “all these things that shall come to pass”, the rapture must be before the tribulation.

    God Bless x

  • #29 written by amazinggrace2true
    about 3 years ago

    Oh Ted x Please dont say I wouldnt even speak to you because of the way you look. ive had peircings, although no tattoos… but really freaky hair styles lol x i have a close friend, she is covered in tattoos and peircings… i grew up with Punk rockers and many diverse people and i loved them all. And No I “wouldnt see that” because I dont judge people by their appearence but how they treat me and whether they are of good heart and not heartless. It is you that seemed to have judged me. If i have offended you then I appoligise. GOD knows my heart…… even though we dont see eye to eye on the Rapture as with many, my intentions were to mearly put my thought and finding in comment. AS for the “Fear Factor” the only fear is for those without Christ for he is the Truth, the Life and the Way. For GOD does NOT change… as he said in the days of Noah and In the days of Sodom and Gamorrah….. Noah and Lot and their Families were saved. They did not go through GODs wrath… there is nowhere in the Bible that GOD faithful believers are subjected to GODs Wrath….. does it? Yes the World will judge believers… its happening now, and it will get more intense.. even in the West, this will test many.
    GOD bless x

  • #30 written by amazinggrace2true
    about 3 years ago

    to add, Ted you have not once quoted any scripture to back up that there is no rapture. i have taken all that I can out of GODs Word… as with Dirk at least he quoted scripture in evidence of his belief. Many Ministers believe like i do and many believe like you. why are you
    stuck at speading the Good News”? Why? if it is the Truth and the HolySpirit is with you then you just plant the seed of the Gospel it has nothing to do with the rapture… even if they ask, as they have asked me I would say it is not clear but there are many who believe differently and ask them to read the Word instead of being preached to and told what the end times mean… like you are doing to me, let them enjoy reading the Word or listening to the Bible and let the Holy Spirit Guide them not you or I x

  • #31 written by Ted
    about 3 years ago

    again i didnt judge you i called you out on you adding that rapture sentence to revelations 4 which speaks about a vital cornerstone of christian faith to be as the elders are towards Jesus lay our crowns at his feet and praise him eternaly … take off your back pack of woes and sorrows and tell him i can not do this please you do it and amazing thing is Jesus wants us to do that …. so you see by using revelations 4 for your pre trib rapture arguement you are taking away a vital teaching that God has for us … and to me thats blasphemy… and im pretty sure God doesnt like that since he says not to do that several times in the bible …. i did not say that to judge you but to make you aware of what you did but i must only tell you this twice and let God tell you the rest

  • #32 written by Wayde
    about 3 years ago

    Dirk… go online and type in 7 year tribulation and Ribera. You will see where this false doctrine originated and why.(Precepts of Men). How could people follow this doctrine when Paul tell us…
    1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    now pay attention to what is said in this scripture…
    1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    These verses clearly show that we will be standing here when Christ returns.
    Be Blessed

  • #33 written by Wayde
    about 3 years ago

    You really need to pay close attention to these verses…
    Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
    Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
    Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
    Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
    Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
    Now read this verse…
    Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
    Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
    Verse 30 clearly states Let them grow both together until the harvest. The harvest is the end of the world. How can you stand behind the pre-trib rapture when our Lord clearly defined this.
    People are listening to the doctrine of men.
    Jesus said…
    Lk 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
    Our spiritual leaders are taking Gods Word and twisting it so we can make Gods Word fit our lifestyle and not our lifestyle to fit Gods Word.
    May you Be Blessed in finding the truth!

  • #34 written by Ted
    about 3 years ago

    Amen, brother wayde i wish i was more knowledgable in verses and where they were but at least i can memorize the meaning of Jesus truths … that was beautifully written and very helpful for me … in this blog and speaking with my brother who is a minister ive come to the real truths 1. there is no pre-rapture 2. there is a gathering of us all who believes in Jesus on the day of great harvest 3. the world will end and a new one that is in harmony with Gods word will begin. 4. we need to be teaching of Gods love then his wrath on the non-believers. … question, how many of you say i am saved from Gods wrath of the end of the world because i was born again and will be raptured when the end of the world comes? now how many of those people recieve eyes rolling and umm ok’s from the non-believers? i started this way 2 years ago and recieved nothing but negative reactions … then i wised up and stopped talking this way to try and help save others until i had studied more … and today i now say you should come to know the lord Jesus love for you for no matter what you do or say or think he loves you times are ruff and satan has easy way outs but Jesus has so much more for you if you just wait for him … Today as i spoke to a procliamed wiccan she said you know ive never heard it put that way my freind invited me to her church i told her idk but i think im gonna go now …. those words were the sweetest words to hear because it was not hers but Gods words and we all know Gods words are sweeter then honey i about started to sing our God is an Awesome God he reigns from heaven above…. but i figured i better quit while i was ahead and let God take over lol… i joke but seriousely folks the point im making is that when i stopped talking about destruction and hate and hell and evil and … well quilt tripping on a non-believer … i noticed a positive responce and Jesus taking the reigns after you say yehaw giddy up … he lets you watch him turn a non-believer into a brother or sister that has a heart after God

  • #35 written by Wayde
    about 3 years ago

    Brother Ted…as I read your post I became very concerned when you said you thought you might attend this church of the proclaimed wiccan woman. You need to be very cautious here my brother… for if she is proclaiming herself to be a wiccan and a christian she truly is not a child of God and has an unfamiliar spirit. Remember what scripture says…
    2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
    IMHO if she is a true christian she would never refer to herself as being a wiccan and would denounce this belief of the devil. Sounds to me like she is straddling the fence.
    2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
    This is the problem with todays churches for they allow corruption to enter into the church therefore corrupting the whole lump. A good example is the pre-trib rapture.
    Be not deceived my brother in the Lord for scripture says…
    2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
    2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
    2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
    May Gods light shine upon you in this matter and reveal the truth unto you!!!
    Next I would like for you to have this beautiful program that was given unto me which helps me in reference and study in Gods Word. This has many translations for those using other bibles than the KJV which I am impartial to. And is a free download.
    http://www.e-sword.net/
    Be Blessed

  • #36 written by Ted
    about 3 years ago

    oh no no no wayde im saying she used to be a wiccan ive been talking with her about God and she has denounced wicca and believes in Jesus and im not going to the four square church with her 1. she is a child of 18 2. i am a married man …. so no i was saying God touched her heart and she is on the road to know Jesus …

  • #37 written by Wayde
    about 3 years ago

    Ted…sorry for the misunderstanding of your message. Even though you did not clarify that she had denounced wicca. Praise God she is now a child of God!!! Keep her close and let her not fall into the docrine of men, by using the Word of God to reveal the fallacies of what many churches and people are teaching today.
    I hope you take a look at the program e-sword for it is a blessed tool to have.
    May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Be Blessed my brother!

  • #38 written by Ted
    about 3 years ago

    the other good one is biblegateway

  • #39 written by Wayde
    about 3 years ago

    Biblegateway is good. But I believe e-sword is a better program that downloads Gods Word on your computer.
    It has a Strongs reference, bible search, dictionary, topic notes, study notes and many other uses you may find applicable. And you do not have to go online to use it. I have seen programs for sale for as much as $50-$100 that do not even come close to it. Best of all it is free.
    Be Blessed

  • #40 written by Wayde
    about 3 years ago

    I made a comment about e-sword in my post having many translations. What I meant to say is it has many versions of the Bible. This program allows you to compare many of these versions side by side.
    Sorry for this error in my post.
    Be Blessed

  • #41 written by Wayde
    about 3 years ago

    @EXPOSING LIES…you said..”(little ones are young Christians not little kids)”….you also said ” In James it states that if you cause one little one to fall, you’d be better off with a millstone around your neck and cast into the sea.”
    Scripture does not verify your interpertation of this and you are not even quoting the right scripture. For scripture says…
    Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
    Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
    Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
    Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
    Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

    and again,
    Mar 9:36 And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them,
    Mar 9:37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.
    Mar 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbade him, because he followeth not us.
    Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
    Mar 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
    Mar 9:41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
    Mar 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

    In both references a CHILD is refered to and NOT A YOUNG CHRISTIAN as you quoted.
    You are not exposing lies but promoting false doctrine.
    For scripture says…
    2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
    2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

    To brothers and sisters seeking the truth…
    Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
    Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
    BE BLESSED

  • #42 written by S. Knight
    about 3 years ago

    I don’t think Mr. Dirk has anger issues.
    I see him as a very passionate person for his beliefs (wich i agree with). He is trying to open God’s children eyes to the truth…
    Read this again:

    Mathew24:
    “3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
    4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all[a]these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences,[b] and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

    9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.

    10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.”

    Mathew24:9:“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. “…. not raptured away and missed all that.

  • #43 written by Kevin
    about 3 years ago

    I strongly suggest that any Christian wanting to decipher eschatology read E.W. Bulinger’s “Figures of Speech in the Bible,” or Milton Terry’s “Biblical Hermeneutics.” The “catching away” spoken of in 1 Thess has nothing to do with a bodily rise from the the earth into the heavens at all. And regardless of whether you buy into Scofield’s philosophy (really the 16 year old Scottish girl, Margaret McDonald’s , alleged vision of Rev: 4) of a future temporal Star Trek type lift off from the earth, it happened back in the first century! Daniel’s prophecy was unsealed by the John the revelator. The book of Revelation is about the revelation of Jesus Christ, not a yet future apocalyptic end of the earth and cosmos.

  • #44 written by Wayde
    about 3 years ago

    @Kevin…you said,” it happened back in the first century!”
    Would you care to explain this?

    and you said,” Daniel’s prophecy was unsealed by the John the revelator.”
    I would like to ask you how do you come to this conclusion? For scripture says..
    Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
    This verse clearly states” the time of the end.”
    John was banished to the Isle of Patmos by Emperor Domitian (A.D. 81 to 96). The time of the end was not in Johns time, but the Revelation of Jesus Christ was given unto him to write these things which he saw in a book and give it unto the churches which were in Asia.
    Please explain your statement.
    Be Blessed

  • #45 written by Allah's Dead, Jesus Isn't!
    about 3 years ago

    I’m confused! There’s going to be a Revival near the end of time yeah? Is this going to be worldwide or just in certain countries? Has it happened yet? Can anyone answer my questions? Thanks.

  • #46 written by Wayde
    about 3 years ago

    @Allah’s Dead, Jesus Isn’t…could you explain what you mean by”a Revival near the end of time”. For I do not know where in scripture it says this. If you are refering to a “gathering” then I suggest you read Gods Word in post #34. Or read Matthew 13:24-42 in your own bible.
    As far as a Revival I do not see in scripture this happening for scripture says…
    2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
    2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
    2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
    2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
    2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

    and again,
    2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    and again,
    2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
    2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

    We have taken Gods Word and fit it to our lifestyle instead of taking our lifestyle and being obedient
    to Gods Word.

    And if you are refering to a gathering (revival) worldwide or just in certain countries remember what scripture says…
    Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
    Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
    Remember again the parable of the wheat and tares.

    Be not confused my brother in the Lord, but search the scriptures for the truth in Gods Word. And may our Heavenly Father, through our Lord Jesus Christ, give you the understanding you seek.
    My prayers are with you.
    Be Blessed

  • #47 written by Allah's Dead, Jesus Isn't!
    about 3 years ago

    Thank you for that Wayde. I wasn’t trying to twist the scriptures to fit my own desires. I just thought…

    Thanks,
    God Bless.

  • #48 written by Wayde
    about 3 years ago

    @Allah’s Dead, Jesus Isn’t… Brother I do not think you are twisting Gods Word, just seeking the truth in His Word. As am I. The pre-trib rapture being taught in most churches cannot be backed by scripture. That is why I use Gods Word to prove this man made theory is not truth but false doctrine. To me, this is corruption. And if they are teaching this corruption, is it possible they are teaching more corruption? I pray that people who love Jesus with all their heart will search The Scriptures for the truth. For our Lord said…
    Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
    Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    May you continue in your search for the truth!
    Be Blessed

  • #49 written by Allah's Dead, Jesus Isn't!
    about 3 years ago

    @Wayde. It’s Sister, I’m not male! :) But thank you for your comment.

  • #50 written by Wayde
    about 3 years ago

    Sorry Sister for my assumption.
    Be Blessed

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