THE WISE SHALL UNDERSTAND

Obamacare Is Adolf Hitler’s ‘T-4 Program’ Revived

| May 31, 2013

This article was written while Obamacare was still a proposal, and not yet passed into law. Hitler was very smart, he knew that before he could get Germans to accept the concentration camps, he had to first get them to think of themselves as gods deciding who would live and who would die through the control of a national healthcare system. The creation of the T-4 Program, or the German Universal Healthcare System – did just that.

Obamacare is the revived version of the T-4 Program. Hitler would be very proud.

From EIR: In July of 1939, a conference of medical professionals was held in Berlin, Germany. Participating were the professors and chairmen of the departments of psychiatry of the leading universities and medical schools of Germany, many of them, the most respected professionals in their fields. The subject? What would be the criteria for determining what patients would be considered to have “lives unworthy to be lived,” and what was the most “practical and cheap” manner of removing them from being burdens on the health-care system—by death.

hitler-t-4-obamacare-nazi-socialist-barack-hussein-obama

Thus, the bureaucratic machine began to be cranked up for what is known as Adolf Hitler’s program of genocide through “euthanasia,” a program which killed hundreds of thousands of non-Jewish Germans, and eventually, millions of Jews and non-Germans as well.

That program, which had already begun years before, against concentration camp inmates and handicapped children, was officially put into effect in October 1939, when Hitler penned his own personal, and secret, authorization for the program, under the title, “The Destruction of Lives Unworthy of Life”:

Reichsleiter Bouhler and Dr. Brandt are charged with the responsibility for expanding the authority of physicians, to be designated by name, to the end that patients considered incurable according to the best available human judgment of their state of health, can be accorded a mercy death.

To carry out this program, Hitler and his fiendish Nazi associates would fully utilize the “professional” apparatus which had been put in place, as well as the popular, British-eugenics-spawned ideology which had been increasingly dominant in Germany since Hitler seized power with the aid of powerful British-Wall Street financiers. The killing would proceed with the utmost “cost-effectiveness” and professionalism, in order to save funds for the Nazi state’s preferred projects, and not waste them on “ineffective” medical treatments.

If that sounds familiar, it should. For the proposals which the Obama Administration has currently put on the table, follow them in virtual lockstep. First, the “experts” decide what is “effective” care, with “cost-effectiveness” foremost in mind, ruling out “inappropriate” treatments. These standards become the law, in terms of what medical care will be paid for. Then other experts efficiently implement those decisions, through the existing hospital apparatus.

The result, as in Nazi Germany, is that millions are, with the stroke of a pen, consigned to death.

The T4 Program

The T4 program, which was established following Hitler’s secret order, took its name from its Berlin office address, Tiergarten 4, which address housed the coordinating organization for the program, the Reich Work Group of Sanatoriums and Nursing Homes. In charge were Philip Bouhler, chief of the Chancellory, and Dr. Karl Brandt, Hitler’s personal physician and chief medical officer of the land.

Their first task was to devise the questionnaires which would be used to categorize the targetted institutionalized populations. Four categories were specified:

  1. Patients suffering from specified diseases who are not employable, or are employable only in simple mechanical work. These included schizophrenia, epilepsy, senile diseases, therapy-resistant paralysis, feeble-mindedness, and the like.
  2. Patients who have been continually institutionalized for at least five years.
  3. Patients who are criminally insane.
  4. Non-German patients.

While including these categorizations, the questionnaire overall gave the impression of a rather neutral statistical survey, which also delved into the patients’ biographies, their financial situations, and the like (Figure 1). It was accompanied by a questionnaire for the institution in which the patient was housed, which asked about staffing, beds available, and budgetary questions. A significant stress was also put on detailing the patients’ abilities to work.

The first questionnaires went out in October 1939, the month Hitler signed his order, to state hospitals and other public and private institutions where mental patients, epileptics, the mentally retarded, and other handicapped persons resided. The responsibility for filling them out, often in a very short period of time, fell on the physicians at those institutions.

The questionnaires were then sent to panels of three or four psychiatric experts, who indicated their opinion about whether the patient (whom they had never seen, much less examined, and whose medical history they were unfamiliar with) was to live or die. Each “expert” made his or her decision independently, and passed on the questionnaire to the next. The choice for the experts was effectively only one of two options: a plus sign in red, which meant death; or a dash in blue, which meant life. Occasionally, a psychiatrist would put a question mark in the space provided.

The questionnaires were then sent to a chief expert, who passed the final judgment. At this “higher” level, there was no alternative other than life or death. In fact, the “senior expert” was not bound by the recommended decisions. From his judgment, there was no appeal. From that point on, it was merely a matter of sending back the decision to the relevant institution, where the final dispensation of the patient was carried out, and, if so ordered, sending him or her to one of the designated “killing centers.”

These centers were supervised by medical personnel, who oversaw the killing, and were responsible for devising the fraudulent death certificates which were sent to the families of those who had been determined to have lives “not worthy to be lived.”

Councils of Experts

Shift now to today, where we are in the first phases of the Nazi euthanasia program (called “reform”) being promoted by the Obama Administration and its behavioral psychologist “experts.” It starts with the dictum that there are insufficient resources to provide medical care for all, especially those at the “end of life,” or not able to be “effectively” rehabilitated. In other words, the Nazi assumption that there are lives “not worthy to be lived.” At least according to the priorities for spending which the Administration has set—i.e., the banks must be saved first.

The second step is for the Administration to set up those “panels of experts” who will determine the criteria for who will get medical care, and who won’t. Already, the so-called Obama stimulus package has created one such panel, the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research. This 15-member council is comprised of highly credentialed “experts,” many of them medical doctors, who are tasked with “coordinating research” on the relative values of treatments. While explicitly claiming that the Council will not directly pronounce judgments on treatments and payments, it is clear that the research that they are supervising is intended to do precisely that.

Particularly ominous is the fact that one of the Council’s members, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, is trained in “bioethics,” a discipline dedicated precisely to determining criteria for deciding who should live, and who should die. Crucially significant as well, is that Obama’s head of the Office of Management and Budget, Peter Orszag, has already set out his genocidal judgment that around 30% of current health-care services and procedures are unnecessary.

The model for their work, as reflected in statements by many of the relevant officials, is the British National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE), the Orwellian-named agency which has central control over what medical care will be provided to British subjects within the British National Health Service. As the following article explains, NICE’s directives have systematically denied Britons quality care, on the basis of its being “too expensive,” and have singled out, especially, the elderly, for being undeserving of intensive medical care.

The Comparative Effectiveness Council is clearly only the beginning of the genocide—if this Nazi plan is not stopped cold. source – EIR

 

 

About the Author:

NTEB is run by end times author and editor-in-chief Geoffrey Grider. Geoffrey runs a successful web design company, and is a full-time minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. In addition to running NOW THE END BEGINS, he hosts a twice-weekly bible study and prophecy radio show on BlogTalk Radio, and oversees a dynamic street preaching outreach and tract ministry team in Saint Augustine, FL.
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298 Comments on "Obamacare Is Adolf Hitler’s ‘T-4 Program’ Revived"

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  1. Mckay says:

    Whatever do you mean, very good?

  2. BRAINS says:

    In absolute tyrrany and persecution we (the church) will contend and rise up as the Body of Christ and reign as we are ordained to. Let this articl be a call to intercession and labor. As written in the book of Acts, we must live to please God rather than man. The word of God says that they shall overcome by the BLOOD of the Lamb and the word of their testimony and they shall love not their lives UNTIL DEATH> rev 12:11 will the Son of man find such faith unto His second coming?! God is soverign

  3. very good information. Things we need to know

  4. suez says:

    this is another good site, just incase you didn’t know about it!!!

    Earth Changes Media

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  5. All Hitler an his henchmen did was follow up and improve on the Eugenics Program that founded and funded by the Rockefeller Foundation in 1913. In 1932 the British led Eugenics movement designated the Rockefeller’s Dr. Robin as the President of the World Wide Eugenics Federation. The movement called for the killing or sterilization of people whose heredity made them a public burden. Like being Jewish, Gipsy, physically handicapped, mentally handicapped, or disagreed with the Nazi policies. Check it out, It makes for some real interesting reading. The Rockefeller’s were of
    German decent. Standard Oil through one of its subsidiaries, Mobile Oil sold diesel fuel and oil to the Germans during WW-2.

  6. Think I’ll just take the “pain pill” now and get it over with.

  7. arthur durio says:

    There are a lot of people that do believe that this is in the last days, but if you read the book of revelations are the book of Daniel you will understand that there is not much time left.
    I do not know if Obama is the anti-Christ if he isn’t he is preparing his coming and soon.

    • I agree… look at all the mindless zombies that worship him, regardless of what is known. At this rate, it’ll be a snap for the AntiChrist to take over this lost world.

    • Book of revelations? What book is that?

      I’ve read the Book of Revelation, but this Book of Revelations is new to me.

    • Mark says:

      I do think he is the chosen one, but his true form is not yet revealed. And nor will it until the ‘abomination of desolation’ is placed in the coming third temple. And that’s also when the tribulation begins.

      P.S. We don’t yet know what that evil thing is, but I’ll bet my bottom dollar it relates to the Illuminati and NWO game. I’m guessing it will be the pyramid of doom, imaged on the back of the US $1 bill. For once the capstone connects onto the base, the NWO commences, and the Antichrist rises onto the dark throne.

      See my Youtube channel for enlightenment…
      http://www.youtube.com/user/sPIRIToFmYSTERY

      See playlist – Consp…

      • Joseph says:

        You do think Obama is the antichrist?

        • Mark says:

          Absolutely, the signs declare it ;-) You don’t think he is?

          And Pope Francis I.. the false prophet! NTEB even declares it all, notice their main page graphics.

          Anyway, see the links and videos I posted below ;-)

  8. Tracy says:

    Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

    Is controlling (we the people) the main goal of these elitist? Even though there have been evil people throughout the history of the world, what do these power-hungry, greedy, selfish, money-hungry elitist think they are going to gain? Common sense tells all of us that we won’t live forever. Do these people think they are going to out-smart God? Honestly, I think money and power corrupts SOME people to where their brain doesn’t even function in a normal way. And, Washington, DC is full of them.
    I feel better now.

    • Mark says:

      You need to deeply understand whom the elite order are. And once you do, you will understand their wicked game plan. I’ll tell you one thing though, and it’s that they are not whom they appear to be at all, not even in the slightest ;-)

      See my Youtube channel for enlightenment…
      http://www.youtube.com/user/sPIRIToFmYSTERY
      See playlist – Consp…

      • Tracy says:

        Mark,
        I do understand that they have always had a plan, but the older elitist have died already; and if this plan is just handed down from generation to generation, what did the older ones gain? Just a place in hell. My point, what’s the big plan of these people? Like the Rockerfellow’s, Rothchild’s, Bush’s,Clinton’s, Kissinger, Soros, etc., or no matter what part of the world they reside in, God has still scheduled a day for each one of them to take their LAST breath. So, what if they gain the whole world; THEY, just like US won’t live forever. Makes no sense to me.

        • Mark says:

          Tracy – this isn’t a matter of whom the elite are (people-wise), it’s rather whom is controlling them, which is Satan and his fallen angels. They rule from high invisible thrones. The elite are of the occult and worship Lucifer.

          Although God still controls things, Satan has dominion in the world, as has from the beginning. In any case it’s not a simple story, and a global takeover is coming. The elite have zero interest in the populace, other than to make us all NWO slaves, and kill the majority (Rev 13).

          Anyway, if you watch my fairly small video playlist below, you will far better understand things ;-)

        • Mark says:

          Tip: Watch it on Youtube though (too truncated here), just click first video title link at top ;-)

  9. Wily says:

    Re: Hagmann & H., Rick will say somethings about some evangelist, I believe this to be so but the Lord had other plans. Satan too has been knitting a tapestry based on who what he is! Many things we may of thought (societies, Darwinism from A to Z) was woven by people who’ll bend over backwards to appease their god only to be rewarded by the wrath of God! We have to be discerning and use the tools the Lord has provided! I’m not trying to start nothing, it’s time Christian’s be wise to our foe’s ways!

    *note; Just because the Hagmanns believe the church may be preserved threw Daniel’s week, here on earth, but it does not make them our enemies! I strongly believe we have to be taken up by our Savior Jesus prior the 7 yr wrath period! I also don’t think we can lump all the charismatic together as it may come across, just be mindful of the whole message! I believe Paul of Tarsus prayed often in the Heavenly tongue, the Lord has shown be things that a person raised in the Baptist church were told was hogwash! If it’s Biblical, the Lord is in no way in a box that the denominations may have it! We’re all brothers and sisters (except for 1 or 2) here, this squabbling just divides us, just what the enemy wants! I’m not talking about this one world religion (Harlot) movement, that’s straight from Hell and Christian’s need to expose it!
    Support NTEB’s anyway you can and pray for Jeff (or is it Geoff) that the Lord will reinforce the hedging around him and ministry! The Church is in a serious hour, pray the Lord will keep us bold or bolder!

    • suez says:

      Are you talking about Hagmanns, the preacher that had the homosexual affair??? I wouldn’t believe anything that tard said!!!! Or are you talking about someone else? And who is H. Rick? LOL

  10. Vern says:

    I have got to the point in my life that I don’t care what our Govt, President does we do not have any say so as well freedom, so I say do what ever but leave me out of it and I just set in my chair and wait on God to return were then he will take me out of here and then I know for a fact I want have to worry. The word of God as already said what is to take place in the times that we are living now so why worry? And if you do then you folks might need to seek Gods face and ask for to be giving of your sins. Then he will give you that peace until he comes just like he did for me.

  11. clinging to my bible and my guns.

  12. You are right. I do hope you feel better after writing that comment. I feel better after reading it.

  13. Stacey says:

    just a question, can God give people dreams? For the past couple of years I been having dreams about the Great Tribulation. I don’t know if he is giving me these dreams to keep me in check or I just like to study stuff out the bible that is causing those dreams. I never before longed for Christ to return as I do now. The way the world is going I fear for my one year.old daughter. I don’t want her to see how cruel this world is and I will do anything to shield her from that. Just everything seems to scary now.

    • suez says:

      Stacey, Yes God still can give dreams. But they have to line up with the word, or at least come to pass, as you have dreamed it. I have had many dreams. Not all have come to pass yet, but some have been coming to pass. Most of them, I had clear back in the 80′s. But now they are coming to pass. I would of never dreamed they would, because then they didn’t make sense. Now they confirm them-selfs, by whats happening in the earth! I wrote them, and just sat them on the shelf. Little did I know they would come to pass in the last few years!! Praise God, he prepares us. Write your dreams and date them. Then just put them away. If they come to pass, great, if not, don’t eat pizza before bedtime…LOL Na, just kidding. Just hold on to them, the Lord will let you know what to do with them!! God Bless! s

    • Mark says:

      God does give visions and dreams, but Satan also can do the same. And as well they could simply be imagination. Btw I’ve had many freaky dreams, but none amounted to anything. I guess visions and dreams are not my niche?

      Regarding this strange world and all…

      See my Youtube channel for enlightenment…
      http://www.youtube.com/user/sPIRIToFmYSTERY
      See playlist – Consp…

  14. Sherry says:

    Stacey, other people I have talked to have had dreams like you are having. Things have changed rapidly in the U.S.A. and the world. The End Times are being set up. Know who you belong to and fasten your seatbelt! Stay steadfast in your faith. We’ve got to trust Him even though this change happening brings anxiety.

    • Mark says:

      Sherry, the end times (last days) began at Pentecost, nearly (or more than?) two millenniums ago.

      Act 2:17 KJV – And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
      2Ti 3:1 KJV – This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
      Hbr 1:2 KJV – Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
      Jam 5:3 KJV – Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
      2Pe 3:3 KJV – Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

      Anyway, we are not yet there, but getting very close to the time of the end; prophets, Jesus, Paul, John. Their; dreams, visions, words.

      See my Youtube channel for enlightenment…
      http://www.youtube.com/user/sPIRIToFmYSTERY
      See playlist – Consp…

  15. News Outlet: Hagar is cutting the retirement benefits for mem and women retiring from the military!

  16. Mark says:

    As a believer you’ve nothing much to fear besides fear itself. Anyway, Hitler had his day, and the Antichrist will soon have his day.. the tribulation. As for living escape, it will be absolutely impossible for the remaining populace :-(

    In any case, the whole Muslim thing is an evil front, to distract the populace from the real issues at hand.

    See my Youtube channel for enlightenment…
    http://www.youtube.com/user/sPIRIToFmYSTERY
    See playlist – Consp…

  17. Stacey says:

    my last recent I had was about 2 weeks ago…..I couldn’t forget it if I tried….. it was during the tribulation. I remember every detail of it. the freaky part of it Is I remember I was face to face with the beast. I told him no I dont want it, my faith was in Jesus. Then he forcefuly made me take the mark and then it ended. As the bible states if you reject it then you will more then likely facr death. So I am not sure on the meaning of it, but it really hit home. I tried to get my bf to understand God is real….. I feel like he needs to know the truth. I showed him Isiah 17 then showed him an article about Damascus… He just made the excuse that jkv bible isn’t right and that it was rewritten to the way the author wanted it to be. I feel he is so blinded. I really do hope all of who doesn’t know Gods love will…. We really are living in bad times. I pray Jesus comes soon.

    • Mark says:

      Stacy, as Christian believer, you need to understand that the great tribulation is not reserved for us, but for the wicked world. Anyway, it sounds to me that Satan or your vivid imagination is involved in your nightmare?

      As for when the end will be, it occurs after the NWO begins. The end time things are already present. Please watch my below video stuff to better understand ;-)

      Anyway, we are not yet there, but getting very close to the time of the end; prophets, Jesus, Paul, John. Their; dreams, visions, words.

      See my Youtube channel for enlightenment…
      http://www.youtube.com/user/sPIRIToFmYSTERY
      See playlist – Consp…

    • suez says:

      Stacy, I am a dream interpreter, but you have to judge it by scripture. No where that I know of in the Bible, does it say he can force you to take the mark. And besides that, he cannot mark what already belongs to God. So I would caution you that this one isn’t of God for that reason! This is just my opinion. God Bless, suez

      • suez says:

        Whoops so very sorry…I just noticed a typo!!! I meant to say,,,I am NOT a dream interpreter!!! Yikes, for heavens sake…Forgive me, I usually pre-read these before I post them…So sorry.

  18. I will be right there with you herman, hope you got plenty of ammo brother, NEVER GIVE UP, DIE FIGHTING

  19. Ron Murphy says:

    How do we know Jews will live as they do today in the Kingdom age, The millennium?

    Joe 3:19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.
    Joe 3:20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.

  20. I don’t know why they keep calling it Hitlers T4 program. Lets get it right, its the Rockefeller’s Eugenics Federation. Founded, an funded in 1913 by the Rockefeller Foundation. Focus: to promote the well being of Mankind through out the World. In 1932 the British led Eugenics movement designated the Rockefeller’s Dr. Rubin as the President of the World Wide Eugenics federation. The movement called for the killing or sterilization of People whose heredity make them a Public Burden. It seems one of Dr Rubin best friends was Joseph Mengele. He was the one who helped carry out the Eugenic programs for Hitler. You all can sit around on your asses waiting for God to save you, but until he shows up I will try to protect my self and my loved ones, any one else I can help.

  21. engineer says:

    I always knew there was a hidden message in those Google images they show you from time to time. Here is more info on hidden messages on US Currency.

    His Name is Jonathon Kleck and he has a lot to show you on what hidden messages are being shown on current US money from a prophetic final days viewpoint. It’s time to educate yourselves people. God Bless.

    Hidden Occult Images on US Currency.
    http://www.tribulation-now.org/jonathan-kleck/

    • Mark says:

      Be careful of him, as not all his stuff is right :-( So far he has failed on the 11/11/11 Hover Dam bursting event, and his so called prophecy utterances are seeming bogus. However the currency imagery is mostly accurate I think, though not absolutely certain.

      P.S. He claims to be of the elite lineage, so he could be a false prophet. He also never responded to my messages. In any case, I trusted him at first, but no more after the 11/11/11 failure.

    • suez says:

      If someone claims to be a prophet, and they are not 100% right. THEY ARE NOT!!!! If he failed on the 11/11/11 then he is not of God. Please have some common sense Brother.

  22. Ron Murphy says:

    The book of the 7 seals are from beginning of the last days until the completion of the last days. The time afterward are for the reign in the kingdom age.

    Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
    Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

    The 7th trumpet is the closing of that book.

    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    So when did this take over of the kingdom accure?

    Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
    Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
    Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
    Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    This is the take over of the kingdom the book of the 7 seals just got fulfilled. So you see Rev. can not be in chronological order. The 7th trumpet ended the story and events of the book.

  23. Ron Murphy says:

    So that being said, Is not this also the end of the book of the 7 seals, the 7 trumpets and the closing of the book.

    Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

    What does” It is done”, mean? Didn’t we just see the gathering of the nations at the battle of Armageddon.
    I don’t need to compare the vials & trumpets to see this. It is evident, even without comparing them.

  24. engineer says:

    Mark, I did more research on the 11-11-11 post from another watchmans point of view
    on the subject. The numbers seem to be more symbolic as in trying to tell the public (sheeple, myself included) on the meaning of the number 11, as having to do with some dark occult message, like disorder in the world. Here’s more info. God Bless.

    http://watchman33.com/2011/09/09/11-11-11-opening-of-the-portals/

    • Mark says:

      I just checked out link, twill take some time to explore it ;-)

      P.S. The END is right around the corner, and the world at large is still fast asleep :-(

  25. engineer says:

    You’re right about being careful. One must learn to discern certain messages with the help of the Holy Spirit. Gob Bless.

    • Mark says:

      False prophets can be very devious…

      2Cr 11:13 KJV – For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
      2Cr 11:14 KJV – And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
      2Cr 11:15 KJV – Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

      Regarding Jonathan Kleck, he completely denies the Jewish third temple plan, which is a red flag in my book. He also claims that the abomination of desolation is an alien entity inside our heads.

      In my opinion, he is whacky, probably working for the NWO. And his bio is very strange I thought, claiming angelic visitation. Although he’s got some interesting stuff, it’s too hard to discern things, so I unsubbed him.

  26. Mark says:

    Yeah I knew all about that ‘portal’ stuff back in 2011, but I’ll check out link anyway ;-)

    And check this link out, really opens things up ;-)

    http://www.mt.net/~watcher/

    P.S. As for America and 911, it’s all in the bible, various prophecies.. see below videos..

  27. Mark says:

    Argh!.. went to start of playlist.. not what I wanted!
    I’ll have to segregate things for you…

  28. engineer says:

    Small world. I just got done reading essay #8 from Tom Horn’s new coming book. He mentions David Flynn and the whole watcher Mount Hermon, aliens & fallen angels, freemason symbolism, sacred geometry disscusion.

    http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/zenith-8.htm

    Will take time to see some of your videos.
    Keep up the good work in preaching God’s message.

    • Mark says:

      Trust me, the videos are most inspiring ;-)

      P.S. Although the book of Enoch is not included in the bible, several excerpts from it are quoted by bible writers.

      Thanks, I believe we should be both witnesses of Christ and of Satan’s numerous deceptions ;-)

      The Lord in recent times showed me the truth behind the abomination of desolation, and image of the beast. They are the same exact thing, and regard the pyramid of doom and the NWO. The idol of the Antichrist.

      Stuff I never would have even considered 10 years ago. But I’m still perplexed regarding whom the two witnesses are. However that prophecy is symbolic, like all of Revelation.

  29. engineer says:

    Interesting to note on one of the videos as portraying BO as the posible antichrist. We must also keep in mind that with this satanic NWO coming, there must also be a New World Religion. So… quite posibly, we may see the antichrist rise out of the Vatican church. Here is a sequal of Roman numerals depicting the Pope of Rome, the next possible antichrist. Let me know what you think.

    VICARIUS FILII DEI (Latin)
    (Which means Vicar of the son of god)
    V = 5
    I = 1
    C = 100
    A=0
    R=0
    I=1
    U (V) = 5
    S = 0
    ——–
    Total added in numbers = 112

    F = 0
    I = 1
    L = 50
    I = 1
    I = 1
    ——–
    Total added in numbers = 53

    D = 500
    E = 0
    I = 1
    ——–
    Total added in numbers = 501

    ADD ALL THREE = 666 THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST

  30. Mark says:

    Except for one crucial point, the Antichrist* is a king, NOT a religious figure per se. As for the latter, the false prophet is now on his throne.. Pope Francis I.. Peter The Roman ;-)

    What is ironic is that he was elected on 3/13/2013
    Just a coincidence, or was it planned that way?
    Also did former Pope quit, or was he dethroned?

    *The term antichrist simply means Christ opposer. It has absolutely nothing to do whether one is religious or not. Too much confusion is causing the term to have religious connotations, just like the term ‘faith’. Which simply means ‘trust in the unknown’.

    Also, the term ‘beast’ often implies kings or kingdoms. Plus Revelation is symbolic. As for 666, it ties into the monetary system. It is hidden in the RFID chip, and as well as bar codes (I think).

    I don’t understand it’s significance, other than that it is satanic. In any case, supposedly there is a giant computer in Utah (the beast) which is tied into things, but haven’t researched.

  31. Mark says:

    As for Obama being the ONE, check out my below link, and I do believe we will come an agreement on idea ;-)

    http://aeroventure.com/BABYLON/BABYLON_home.htm#Daniel_8th_king

  32. engineer says:

    I would’nt pay too much attention to the RFID chips being implanted into everyone anytime soon. If power is what they want, new technology coming out like Iris scans, thumb print, and even voice recognition will all be the power of the NWO beast to control the masses. What you eat, how much money you spend, where you travel etc. I just read an alert about a bank with new Iris scans and thumb print technology which has not gone into use yet. Check it out. http://www.stevequayle.com/index.php?s=33&d=401

    As far as the mark of the beast goes, It does’nt have to be an RFID chip.(although it’s a good tracking tool) The Bible clearly states that it is symbolic. (What’s in your Heart) Here is an example of what I want to explain. Mark on your forehead or on your hand.

    Question:
    How do most of us earn a living?
    Answer:
    We use our hands to work.
    (God gives you a symbolic mark of the beast on your hands because you agreed with the NWO beast system and are conforming with their satanic mandates.)

    Question:
    In what other way can you survive if you can’t use your hands to earn a living?
    Answer:
    You agree in principal to do as you are told by the NWO elite just to stay alive.
    (Symbolic mark of the beast on your forehead for agreeing to do what you are told.)

    Will check out the the link you posted above. Did I mention that I don’t believe in the Rapture. I believe it’s a deception satan will use in the final days.

    • Joseph says:

      Engineer I agree with the rapture theory. Many will lose faith and courage when it does not occur. I already know a family who are questioning why they are still here.

    • Mark says:

      Watch below video, it explains the NWO plan…

      Regarding rapture, it will occur right before tribulation. And the tribulation not 7, but 3.5 years long. Daniel is very clear on these aspects. The first half of the week is peace, and we may be getting close to that hour…

  33. Joseph says:

    I have always strongly suspected Obama as the antichrist. Based on feelings and observation. However these videos and information are pivotal. Thank you Mark for your efforts.

    • Mark says:

      YW ;-) Ever since 911, I’ve been in deep research mode ;-)

      And I’ll be adding new video stuff as it arrives my way.

      P.S. The rapture is indeed for real, both Daniel and Paul declare it. Also they both declare it’s timing in regards to the tribulation.. at the same time, or in close proximity. The keys are in Daniel 12:1, and 2 Thess 2:5-8

      Dan 12:1 KJV – And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

      2Th 2:5-8 KJV – Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

      Make sense now about the rapture? The term ‘he’ infers the ‘holy spirit’. The church is the temple of God. We hold back Satan’s full wrath. How? Because God gives us that power.

      When the church departs, so does the holy spirit. What remains behind will be devoid of God. But the heathen will awaken then, as they will have no choice. The wrath will be upon them to the uttermost, and their only escape will be through the trial of death.

      Anyway, scripture clearly declares that the tribulation is not for the believers, but for unbelievers. Not only in the NT, but also OT. Research ‘day of the Lord’. ;-)

      • suez says:

        Really, Gods people have no tribulation??? I will have to differ with you on that one Mark!! ”Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.” Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Rom 12:12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer; 2Co 1:4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God. 2Co 7:4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our 1Th 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know “ev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days; be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.” I don’t know what Bible you read out of, but my Bible, talks alot about BELIEVERS BEING IN TRIBULATION!! :) I can give you more if you want!

        • Mark says:

          Sue, I never said Gods people don’t have tribulation. In fact everyone suffers tribulation in this world, from the day we were born. Some have less troubles than others though. And I pray daily that God will keep my little happy realm safe and sound. But every time a new calamity arises in the world, I get anxiety syndrome. Whether it be; wars, disasters, storms, floods, plagues, etc. In fact I went through total panic over the recent Russia meteor strike.

          And years back a rare tornado funnel cloud came over my workplace, scared the living hell out of me too. At the time I didn’t know what was happening, but suspected a tornado, as bad weather that day.

          Anyway, I was preparing to depart home (I was alone in office), when I heard the rain suddenly cease, followed by a loud crash and growing rumble. In abject terror I prayed it would end, and it did (Thank God). But when I tried to open the door, it wouldn’t budge.. strange. So I waited awhile, and it eventually opened, but it was literally freezing outside.. wasn’t earlier in day.

          Anyway, the next day I learned that the funnel cloud had flattened the backyard vegetation, and had sucked up the recycle bin contents. Then later I learned that a tornado had indeed touched down in a nearby city, which was along my path. SCARY EXPERIENCE!

          Anyway, tornado’s are very rare in my land (Calif), and I’ll take earthquakes over tornado’s and hurricanes any day. I could not handle the latter, I’d be in eternal fear.

          P.S. Makes one really realize how vulnerable we are in this turbulent world, doesn’t it? :-(

        • Mark says:

          The Greek word for tribulation is ‘thlipsis’

          1) a pressing, pressing together, pressure
          2) metaph. oppression, affliction, tribulation, distress, straits

          P.S. Along with earthly tribulation (calamities), we believers suffer continual worldly tribulation (persecution). So far America isn’t a death trap, but I fear it will be such in the future, during the dark hour. :-(

          • Mark says:

            Not to mention the survival struggle in a world polluted with toxins.. tribulation?

            Anyway, I just don’t normally use the word ‘tribulation’ in my vocabulary. It’s an older term, fairly obsolete in today’s English language. Rather I might say; trouble, anguish, distress, stress, torment, persecution, etc. Do you follow my drift?

  34. engineer says:

    This is what I’d like to convey when I say I don’t believe in the Rapture. I just can’t picture Our Heavenly father taking some of us now and then some of us latter.
    Those who are sleeping (dead) and those who remain alive during tribulation. Here’s why.

    And yes, many will lose thier faith and courage when it does occur, but by that time, Your name is either in the Book of Life or it is not. It is done. The Holy Sprit will have been taken away and there will not be a second chance. Accept Yeshua (Jesus Christ) now while you have time, as your personal saviour. Here are my thoughts on my beliefs of the Rapture.

    http://www.worldslastchance.com/videos#play882

    • Mark says:

      See above post for the absolute answer regarding rapture and tribulation. And I’m 100% confident in my declare! ;-)

    • engineer says:

      TypeO, I meant to say when the Rapture “does not occur” We are either going to be alive or are going to be sleeping (dead). As in being a one time event.

      • Mark says:

        Brother, let me ask you a crucial question: “Are you a Christian (believer)? If so, then you are sealed by God unto salvation and redemption. Nothing can take that from you, NOT; God, Satan, world, yourself, death.

        P.S. As Jesus was resurrected, so shall the entire church be ressurected…

        1Cr 15:22 KJV – For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. – Note: ‘all’
        1Cr 15:23 KJV – But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. – Note: Christians (not heathen)

        So hold your head up high brother from now onward, as our salvation is now, and future redemption event ‘the rapture’ awaits in the wings :-)

      • Mark says:

        Further adding to things…

        Rom 8:35 KJV – Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
        Rom 8:36 KJV – As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
        Rom 8:37 KJV – Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
        Rom 8:38 KJV – For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
        Rom 8:39 KJV – Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

        • suez says:

          Amen on those Scriptures Mark~~~! :)

          • Mark says:

            Well I’m glad we finally agree on something Sue :-)

            Like Paul states, I believe that our salvation is permanent. And scripture proves it in the church letters many places.

            1Th 5:10 KJV – Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

            1Cr 3:15 KJV – If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

            1Cr 5:5 KJV – To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

            Rev 21:24 KJV – And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

            P.S. Hold your head high girl, as this world ain’t our final home, Rev 21 is ;-)

    • suez says:

      If the Holy Spirit is taken away, which he will not be, and no-one will be able to be saved, ???? then why will God send::::Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,” If the Holy Spirit isn’t here to draw them to the Gospel, and there can not be anyone saved, then why would he bother sending this Angel Preaching??? Hmmm,, interesting huh!!! Please Stop believing the words of men, and start reading the Word for yourself. Man is so mixed up and confused concerning the Bible, it is amazing. Preachers think they have it all figured out, but they don’t!!! Sad.

      • Mark says:

        Ye don’t understand because you’re all so wrapped up in the book of Revelation which ye also don’t understand like ye think ye do :-(

        Why don’t ye instead focus on the clearer message in the church epistles, which state that the church is spared from any kind of wrath to come?

        Read the below verses closely…

        1Th 1:10 KJV – And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
        Rom 5:9 KJV – Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

        Wrath is wrath girl, there is no difference whether it be Gods or Satan’s. We are not to endure wrath!

        Regarding the ‘flying angel’ element…

        Mat 24:9 KJV – Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
        Mat 24:10 KJV – And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
        Mat 24:11 KJV – And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
        Mat 24:12 KJV – And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
        Mat 24:13 KJV – But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
        Mat 24:14 KJV – And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

        Hint: Rev 14:6 compare things with above bold text ;-)

        Tip: There will never be any visible angels concerning the book of Revelation. It is a book filled with symbolism, it can’t be interpreted literally!

        In contrast, Jesus’ prophetic declare above is fully literal, easy to understand. Likewise with Paul’s prophecies.

        • suez says:

          Mark, did it ever occur to you, that the wrath in that scripture is talking about Hell??? Just think about that please! And you quoted this yourself. “Mat 24:13 KJV – But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” Just think about that for a while also. The end of what?? To me the end is the end. Just saying! :) And by the way, I rather focus on God’s word that all the stuff your getting from man!! :)

          • Mark says:

            Sue, there are three wrath’s noted in scripture. The wrath of; God, Satan, and man. There is no mention of hell being wrath, so that is only your opinion. And opinions can’t be biblicly justified! Agreed?

            Mat 24:13 KJV – But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

            My interpretation: We have until the end to get saved. Whether that be our end (death), or the worlds end (doom).

            Regarding the stuff from man, I don’t buy it all, just parts. However it can’t be justified, as it is of opinion. Still some of the stuff is mind blowing. And I strongly believe that we should connect the bible with the real world. As after all, prophecy is in both places ;-)

        • suez says:

          Hi, Little Bird how are you?? Sorry this is late, I haven’t been reading these for a few days. Hope you are well!! :)

      • Ron Murphy says:

        Mark is a junk food addict. He will never be nourished, as long as he stays on the stuff he feeds his face with.

        Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

  35. Mark says:

    Anyway, I did a short coparative study on the ‘day of the Lord’ concept today, to further try to show that the time of tribulation and wrath are not meant for believers, but rather for unbelievers. I hope you comprende what I’ve put together?

    Isa 13:9-13 KJV – Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. – Note: The words; sinners, world, wicked. The Lords anger is coming for the world order ;-)

    Joe 2:1-3 KJV – Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.- Note: The words; garden, wilderness, escape.. (see below for comparison aspect)

    Amo 5:18-20 KJV – Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him. Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it? – Hint: That final world hour will be woeful indeed!

    Oba 1:15,16 KJV – For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head. For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been. – Note: Phrase segment; ‘upon all the heathen’.. no mention of Jews?

    Zep 1:14-18 KJV – The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD’S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land. – Note: The words; wrath, trouble, distress, wasteness, desolation, darkness, gloominess ;-) Hint: Are not trouble and distress the same meaning as tribulation? Think about it ;-)

    1Th 5:2-4 KJV – For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. – Note: The words; peace, destruction. Hint: The tribulation will have zero peace within it ;-(

    Hint: Compare ‘highlighted portion’ of 1Th 5:2-4 KJV with Joe 2:1-3 KJV phrases above ;-) Clues; the land is as the garden of Eden before them (For when they shall say, Peace and safety), and behind them a desolate wilderness (then sudden destruction cometh upon them), and nothing shall escape them (and they shall not escape). – Do you not see the obvious parallels? It’s the same things ;-)

    Hint: The church is not in darkness, as the day of the Lord begins the tribulation and wrath segments ;-) And I swear unto that fact by the holy bible declare!

    P.S. Yes I do believe that the great tribulation and wrath of God are in the same end time segment (the proof is presented above). Only that the tribulation element preceds the wrath elements. The tribulation is confusing though, because descriptions of it are too vague. But according to Daniel and Jesus, the tribulation follows the abomination of desolation. And the latter can’t occur until the third temple rises into full operation. In any case, careful scriptural study is needed to understand things ;-)

    Mark

  36. engineer says:

    I’ve seen that interview with Aaron Russo a while back. He tells it like it is. Try telling people this and they’ll call you crazy. Here’s another story that backs up what he says.

    http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/03/illuminati-and-word-war-iii-plan-revieled-2595468.html

    As far as the Rapture goes, I guess we’ll agree to disagree. One thing thing I’d like to say is we are so close to the end of times. Let’s try to wake the masses up by telling them Jesus Christ is the only hope for those who are willing to accept him as our personal saviour. God Bless.

    http://www.worldslastchance.com/videos#play882

    • Mark says:

      Brother, the rapture/resurrection will occur.. it is in the bible! However exactly when is unknown, as it is also when Christ first returns, of which exact details are yet mystery.

      The main thing is to be assured of our salvation, and also to be faithful witnesses unto the lost world! Agreed?

      Talk later on things, as got stuff to do ;-)

  37. Some people wake up each morning and try to figure out how to serve God and make the world a better place.

    Other people wake up each morning and try to figure out how they are going to get laid.

    Go figure.

    • suez says:

      Well I would say of the later of your post, those people better wake up and stop thinking that way. They better get right with God, before it is to late. :)

  38. Obamacare is adolf hitler’s ‘T-4 program’ rivived…?

    what an appetizer, main course soon to be served…sizzling! ENJOY!

    dark chocolate treat for dessert included.

  39. Lets put the blame where it belongs. The Rockefeller Foundation funded in 1913 the Eugenics Program. Focus-smart globalization. Mission- to promote the well being of mankind through out the world. In 1932, the British led Eugenics Movement designated the Rockefeller’s Dr. Rubin as the President of the world wide Eugenics Federation. The movement called for the killing or sterilization of people whose heredity make them a public burden. Dr. Rubin had a good friend at that time with the last name of Mengele. The Eugenics program was practiced here in this Country also. A lot of the programs here were run under the Eugenics Psychiatric Genetics. So, what Hitler did was started by the Rockefeller’s clear back in 1913. Hitler just expanded it to include Jew’s,Gipsy’s, Communists and political opponents.

  40. Bo says:

    Hello

    Haven’t been on this site for awhile. I see a few are now promoting their beliefs by encouraging bloggers to check out their site. I don’t think I’ve been gone that long to miss out on what the new rave is.
    What this site attracted me to was the inter-connection of true believers with those (myself included) who are new to the faith.

    Now people are promoting their websites.

    Engineer- The rapture is for real. I unfortunately do not have bible scripture to prove my statement. But I have faith. You commented that you didn’t believe that God would take some now and some later. The rapture is for the Gentiles and believing Jews. We not of Jewish decent are Gentiles. And that is who Paul preached to. That is who Paul targeted. The rapture is not for God’s chosen people ( Israel). The rapture is for us who have heard the Word of God, heard the Gospel (1 Corinthians 15:3-5.) and have taken it to heart. Taken to heart what Jesus did on the cross for us!!! And have believed in it. Engineer – There WILL be a rapture. Believe in the scripture above , above all else and smile because you know you will be apart of Jesus’ Bride. A bride He is close to calling on.

    God Bless.

    • Mark says:

      Unfortunately a good few believers on here deny the rapture, and I’ve posted plenty of proof regarding it :-(

  41. I don’t deny that there will be a’ gathering together.’
    But it will be after the great tribulation, as states Christ, in Matthew 24.
    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    • Mark says:

      Brenda, this may agree with you?

      • Ron Murphy says:

        This is Brenda, and no, I don’t agree with this, either. It is not during the tribulation that we will be raptured, it is immediately after, as Christ said in Mat. 24:29-31.
        Paul didn’t say it would happen immediately after the antichrist was revealed. He said that the antichrist had to be revealed first…it could be 7 years, before the rapture occurs.

        • suez says:

          Yes, Amen, that is what the Bible says. How do people miss that? It is so very clear!!! :(

          • Why do they twist Jesus’ words around to suit themselves? I don’t understand, Suez.

          • suez says:

            I don’t know Brenda. To make it tie in with what they want to believe I guess. Somethings in the word are still hidden, but somethings are so very clearly stated, it is quite clear, if you want to see it. When I read the Bible, I pray that the Holy Spirit would clear my mind of anything I believe that is wrong. I pray first that every preconceived idea that has been placed there by man, myself or the devil, be taken away, and that it be replaced by the Holy Spirit of God, in the truth that HE met it to be. I read with a open mind, that God can reveal HIS truth to me. I do not try to read to grab onto scriptures that may back up things I may think. I read and ask God to show me what his truth is, not mans, nor mine, nor the devils. I just want HIS truth. It has worked because I have seen a lot that I missed due to my mind being clouded with mans ideas in the past!!! Praise God!!

          • The Holy Spirit will guide you…..always trust in Him. Amen!!!

            Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

        • Mark says:

          Nor do I agree with video Brenda, only in part.

          Has it ever occurred to you that the tribulation beginning may well be the 6th trumpet blast… coming WWIII? As at the 7th trumpet blast, the world game is over for us believers? Think about it girl ;-)

          Btw Paul never said we will not face Satan’s tribulations, only not Gods wrath. Also, the gathering together is not necessarily the rapture. As the gathering event comes at the end of the tribulations (WWIII?). Therefore, the church must depart before before being gathered together?

          Also tribulation continues into the wrath period. As for now, we can only watch and wonder. But I do believe that the Antichrist is on the visible stage, and we all should know him by his dark colors? If you don’t know whom he is now, I can guarantee you will know things in due time ;-)

          Hint: The mark of the beast occurs after the tribulation of our times is over (Lords return) ;-) After rapture, the beast will gain full control, as all holy opposition removed. Then the NWO will be born, followed by Gods wrath. Anyway, it’s actually all quite simple, if you would only open your heart and mind ;-)

          P.S. I learn as I receive, I have not all knowledge!

          • Mark,
            I have studied the Bible for more years than you’ve probably been alive, with the leading of the Holy Spirit.
            I don’t take Christ’s words and twist them around to suit what I want to happen….it has to happen as He says.

          • Mark says:

            Brenda,

            Prophecy happens in the real world, not just in the holy book ;-)

            And speculating is not twisting anything around. I’m merely stating my interpretations, what I believe is happening in our world, in relation to scripture.

            So I’m not doing anything different than you do, except that we do have different understandings on things. And until the Lord returns, that will remain the sad case I’m afraid :-(

          • suez says:

            Mark you seem to not understand. There is a difference between Tribulation, and God’s wrath. God’s people will not be under Gods wrath. If we are here, God forbid, we will be protected! Just like the Children in the wilderness, at the Red Sea, and Noah in the ark, Lot in Sodom and G. They were not taken out of the earth, but protected in it!! :) Gods wrath will NOT be upon his people. He may take us out just before his wrath starts. Just my humble opinion. :)

          • Yes, I believe He will catch us up, after the tribulation, and right before He pours out His wrath.

          • suez says:

            At this point in my life, that is my understanding also Brenda. God Bless you and Ron!! :)

          • God bless you, Suez, and your family, also.
            Like Ron said, everyone wants to make a big mystery novel out of the Bible……..but God wants us to know His truth…that’s why Jesus said,
            Mat 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
            God bless all that are in Christ, and help them to have ears to hear. Pray for us, also, the time is short. Thanks.

          • suez says:

            Amen Brenda. I have had some leading lately in concentrating on reading, and studying out the first few chapters of Revelation. The letters to the Churches. For some reason, I am getting that there is much importance in them that people have been missing. Notice after ever letter, it says “Rev 2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.”” I am thinking we are missing some important things there that needs to have the Light of the Holy Spirit shed his light upon them for us. I think there is some great depth there, that has not been seen for some reason!! Maybe it is just me, but I don’t think so. :)

          • Yes, I think you are right on that. I believe, in my own opinion, take it or leave it, that He was not finished with the church, in general, what He said to the early church there, goes for today’s also.
            He was warning us of the false doctrines and lies of satan, that would run rampant in the last days.
            The devil knows when his time is up. That is why,

            1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
            1Pe 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
            1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
            1Pe 5:11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

          • Mark says:

            Sue, the seven church letters are spiritual messages to the seven churches in Asia during Johns time. They are not intended directly for us, though we can apply their principles to degrees. Btw the ruins of some of these ancient churches remain today ;-)

            Rev 1:1 KJV – The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

            Rev 1:4 KJV – John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

            Rev 1:19 KJV – Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

            Rev 1:20 KJV – The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

            Rev 2:1 KJV – Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus.. Smyrna.. Pergamos.. Thyatira.. Sardis.. Philadelphia.. Laodiceans

            Hint: History records the aspects of these seven root churches, of which later morphed into the Roman Catholic Church. The latter of which remains today, now headed by Pope Francis I.. Peter The Roman ;-)

          • suez says:

            Mark, I believe it was you that was so adamant that Revelation was so symbolic!!! If so, then these are symbolic for us today also!!! :) And besides that, I don’t think I asked for your opinion! I was talking to Brenda…

          • Mark says:

            Sue, I know post was for Brenda, but I couldn’t resist. Forgive me for butting in :-(

            Regarding Revelation, yes it is symbolic for the most part. However those church messages are specifically addressed to those seven churches in Asia. The messages concern things in those churches, not churches of our times.. eg. Jezebel, Satan’s seat, Nicolations, etc. These have no direct meaning today. In other words they were not written to us symbolically or literally.

            As I said, history records things ;-)

          • Mark says:

            Brenda, the only tribulation we believers today will face, is that which we are facing today.. common troubles.. LIFE! We are not spared of; wars, disasters, famine, plagues, etc. We are mortal still!

            Btw there is absolutely no mention in the church epistles stating that we believers must avoid; the beast, his number, or his mark. In fact there is no mention of those three things period there.

            P.S. If you think there is, then I wholeheartedly challenge you to find even but a trace mention ;-)

          • Mark says:

            On the contrary Sue, the tribulation and wrath are the same thing. See my below study on post to Ron ;-) I believe we will be removed prior to rise of Antichrist. Which I do believe begins Daniels 70th week? After we depart, a new church is formed out of those left behind, the tribulation saints.

            P.S. Take it or leave it girl, but that’s how things read to me at this time ;-)

          • suez says:

            Well Mark, we all have our opinions. But the day of the Lord is not the whole of the Tribulation Period. That is how I take it. :) 2Ti 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.” Notice AT that day, not to me only but them also that love his appearing. “2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” 1Co 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Blameless in the day of our Lord??? Why would he say that if we were not going to be here?? Just some thoughts…:)

          • Mark says:

            Well Sue, I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what future transpires? ;-)

            P.S. Don’t forget, we are judged by our works at his coming. And that judgment will be in heaven, not on earth…

            2Cr 5:10 KJV – For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

            1Cr 3:11 KJV – For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
            1Cr 3:12 KJV – Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
            1Cr 3:13 KJV – Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
            1Cr 3:14 KJV – If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
            1Cr 3:15 KJV – If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

            P.S. Once saved always saved ;-)

          • suez says:

            Yes Mark, I am fully aware of that!! I don’t judge you because you believe in Pre-trib. It has nothing to do with our salvation or our living for the Lord Mark. So if your wanting to try and condemn everyone that doesn’t go along with your way of thinking, that is very sad. Are these considered works Mark???? I think not. What a sad and sorry way to think and try to judge a person’s walk with God. I feel sorry for you if that is what you think. For what will that mean for you, if you are wrong?? I suppose you would have to say the same scriptures for yourself, if you are wrong!!! think about that, before you cast your judgement on someone else!! I for one don’t know when the Lord is coming. I have my opinion, but mans opinion means nothing to God. All we can do is wait for his appearing and be standing in the faith that he IS coming!! When the Father tells him to come, he will come for his Church. When will that be, the Bible says NO MAN knows, not even you Mark. So you go ahead and judge all you want. Your judgement means nothing to me. God is my judge, and it is him that I place my faith!!! Not man’s opinion. :(

          • Mark says:

            Good grief Sue! I merely drop in some relevant scripture, and you break into tears? Anyway, did I say anything directly judging you? If so, I don’t see it listed above. For certain nothing intended.

            Sue, our works are our actions in life. How we treat; others, ourselves, etc. Our fellowship status with God. We are rewarded for doing good works, and our bad works are burned. God is very forgiving ;-)

            P.S. None but God knows of the return hour ;-)

          • suez says:

            Oh for Pete’s sake Mark….It would take more than you to bring me to tears!!! :) But it was you addressing all those scriptures to me after all…LOL :)

          • Mark says:

            Sue, there was absolutely nothing in those scriptures directly attacking you. You read that into things yourself. The scripture concerns general judgment of believers. I was merely pointing out that we all will be judged by our lives.

          • suez says:

            Ok, no worries…We are good!! :)

          • Mark says:

            Sue, I don’t attack like a shark, simply not my style. :-(
            However I will express what I believe on people ;-)

            P.S. It’s called being a faithful witness :-)

          • suez says:

            Maybe not like a shark, but kinda like a serpent, more sneaky. Like with all your little Hints, and P.S’s… Sometimes that can show some arrogance!! Quoting certain scriptures to people about certain things, not relating to the subject…things like that. Then topping it off with things like “P.S. It’s called being a faithful witness :-)”” Just saying, that gets under peoples skin. That provokes people…just saying…:)

          • He gives us hints like we don’t know our Bible, Suez………..how funny is that?
            I definitely don’t need any of his hints, as they are not helpful, to say the least.
            He seems to think that I do not live in reality of what is going on in the world……..I do know…..we are very aware of the devil’s devices.
            As for the challenge, Mark, I could take you up on that, but you would just try to prove it all wrong, anyway, so what would be the point?

  42. engineer says:

    My brothers in Christ, I love you all, We are all children of Yahweh. Not to offend anyone! THERE WILL BE NO RAPTURE! My belief. Your either going to be alive, when SHTF, or your going to be dead. Death is like being asleep. When you wake up…. You won’t have knowledge of the time that has passed. It’s written. Pray for those who are still ignorant and need our love in helping bringing them to our saviour Jesus Christ. Many years ago, when my wife was alive, I mocked her for her beliefs in Prophecy. May God have mercy on my soul. I always rebelled when she’d preach to me. One night, when she was away on travel, I had a vision (dream). An angel of light appeard to me. The angel was Beutiful in light and appearance. In clouds of glory. Wanted to shake my hand and tell me I was his friend in humanity. I shook the angel’s hand and he told me he was my irate friend Lucifer. I instantly woke up from that dream. I could not sleep for awile after that. I had many encounters with demonic entities after that vision. Evil angels holding me down…. mocking me as I cursed them. Long story short, I Chose JESUS CHRIST over lucifer and will die knowing my heavenly father sent his only begotten son to save me and humanity for our sins.. Bottom line, IT IS WRITTEN (DONE). There will be no RAPTURE. Chose TODAY WHO YOU WILL FOLLOW. I choose Jesus Christ. Yahweh Bless. (Please pray for me.) God Bless. Engineer Out.

    • suez says:

      With all due respect Engineer, how do you interrupt this scripture then? ”1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
      1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” Or: Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:” ”Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”” I don’t think this shows that everyone is dead!! :)

      • Mark says:

        Sue, see my recent posts ;-)

        P.S. Why do you ignore me? Are we all not Christians?

        • Ron Murphy says:

          She ignores you Mark for the same reasons that I do. It’s all that junk food, you’re on. You trust in man more than the word of God. That my brother is a very dangerous thing to do. The Bible did not say to live by the word of Man, yet that is what you do. Turn back to God, trust in Him only. To do otherwise, you curse yourself. And even more so getting others to follow you.

          • suez says:

            LOL Ron…:)

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Sorry, Sue, to be so direct, but I feel he could be in grave danger leading others astray. I would not tell him if I didn’t care.

          • suez says:

            No, no, I just meant I got a chuckle out of what you said. That’s all. :O)

          • Mark says:

            Ron, read this and we may talk later ;-)

            I did a short comparative study on the ‘day of the Lord’ concept today, to further try to show that the time of tribulation and wrath are not meant for believers, but rather for unbelievers. I hope you comprehend what I’ve put together?

            Isa 13:9-13 KJV – Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. – Note: The words; sinners, world, wicked. The Lords anger is coming for the world order ;-)

            Joe 2:1-3 KJV – Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.- Note: The words; garden, wilderness, escape.. (see below for comparison aspect)

            Amo 5:18-20 KJV – Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him. Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it? – Hint: That final world hour will be woeful indeed!

            Oba 1:15,16 KJV – For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head. For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been. – Note: Phrase segment; ‘upon all the heathen’.. no mention of Jews?

            Zep 1:14-18 KJV – The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD’S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land. – Note: The words; wrath, trouble, distress, wasteness, desolation, darkness, gloominess ;-) Hint: Are not trouble and distress the same meaning as tribulation? Think about it ;-)

            1Th 5:2-4 KJV – For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. – Note: The words; peace, destruction. Hint: The tribulation will have zero peace within it ;-(

            Hint: Compare ‘highlighted portion’ of 1Th 5:2-4 KJV with Joe 2:1-3 KJV phrases above ;-) Clues; the land is as the garden of Eden before them (For when they shall say, Peace and safety), and behind them a desolate wilderness (then sudden destruction cometh upon them), and nothing shall escape them (and they shall not escape). – Do you not see the obvious parallels? It’s the same things ;-)

            Hint: The church is not in darkness, as the day of the Lord begins the tribulation and wrath segments ;-) And I swear unto that fact by the holy bible declare!

            P.S. Yes I do believe that the great tribulation and wrath of God are in the same end time segment (the proof is presented above). Only that the tribulation element preceds the wrath elements. The tribulation is confusing though, because descriptions of it are too vague. But according to Daniel and Jesus, the tribulation follows the abomination of desolation. And the latter can’t occur until the third temple rises into full operation. In any case, careful scriptural study is needed to understand things ;-)

            Mark

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Okay , Mark I read the first of your study, Now What Isaiah said was very clear to me. The day the sun turns dark, is according to Matt. 24:29 is when the rapture occurs. That is when the wrath of God starts, That is when he will punish the sinners. And a Man more Precious than Gold, because all that is left are a few and they with be mostly the 144000 of the tribes to repopulate the nation or kingdom. There will not be any other but the Lords at that day, Mark. I don’t believe in the term world order, that is man made. The world will be in total chaos.

          • Mark says:

            Ron, do you fear for your salvation?

            Anyway, the bible does not explain the end times clearly enough to determine things. For if it did, there would be common understanding. I gave you what my interpretation yield, how I read things. Then you give my your opinion on things. Sorry brother, but in this matter we will have to agree to disagree I’m afraid :-(

            Yes the New World Order is man-made, but that doesn’t make it nil. Yes the world will be in chaos then.

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Why should I, I talk to God continually. If I falter He let’s me know. I fear Him , not my salvation. That why I obey Him .

          • Mark says:

            Ron, let me ask you a simple question?

            If for whatever reason you committed a simple sin, and then suddenly however died, do you think your soul would be; hell bound, heaven bound?

            And please just give me your honest answer, no flood of scripture. I know more about scripture than you think I know ;-)

          • suez says:

            What a dumb question, for someone who claims to be so wise!!!

          • Mark says:

            Sue, butting into my chat with Ron?

            Anyway, I give you the same challenge, only I ask you to cast the first stone, if you legally can?

            Jhn 8:7 KJV – So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

            So cast your stones at me girl, if you can claim that you are sinless as Jesus was?

            If you think you can prove this, then let me be stoned to death by you in Gods presence.

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Mark that is a question only God can answer, He however did say the one that breaks the lest of these commandments shall be the least in heaven. I personally would not want to test the theory. But I do know He is Righteous, just and merciful. I would hope when I die it will be with a clean conscience.

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Joel is referring to the armies of saints that come to avenge their blood upon the earth at Armageddon. Obadiah, prophesied The gathering of the Nations, as the heathens. Most of the Jews where slain in the city siege of Jerusalem, that the Heathens destroyed, The only Jew to amount to anything are the 144000. that is why it said all of Israel shall be saved in that day.

          • Mark says:

            Ron, I don’t believe that the 144,000 are a literal group of Jews. The number is symbolic, not literal. I don’t know the exact numerology, but it is a multiplier of 12. But if I’m wrong don’t shoot me :-(

          • Ron Murphy says:

            I’ll line you up in a firing squad and shot you with a Holy Ghost Cannon. Don’t worry it won’t hurt, to much.

          • Mark says:

            Honestly Ron, do you really think that the book of Revelation is a literal book? If you do, then you are living in a religious daydream brother.

            And have you no clue that even common conversation has elements of figures of speech at times? Heck, not only did Jesus speak in parables to the masses, but Paul also speaks figuratively to the church quite often!

            P.S. Brother, awaken to reality, before it eats you alive! :-(

          • So…Mark, you don’t think that Jesus is coming back, literally?
            Is it all symbolism, then? Is the rapture symbolism, also. You mean there won’t really be one, and there won’t be a great tribulation? It’s all just symbolic? Give me a break!

          • Mark says:

            Brenda, symbolism doesn’t mean nothing is literal. Of course Jesus is physically returning, though his spirit is here now with and in us of the flock.

            Don’t laugh girl, but I believe that the rapture is nothing more nor less than a mass holy UFO abduction event! We (dead, living) will be physically altered (as Jesus was), so that we can’t die.

            Then we both of us will rise quickly up into the holy vessels that will be positioned around the globe. How else can’t we safely leave the planet? Scripture clearly states..

            1Cr 15:50 KJV – Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
            1Cr 15:51 KJV – Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
            1Cr 15:52 KJV – In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
            1Cr 15:53 KJV – For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
            1Cr 15:54 KJV – So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

            Comprehend?

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Mark,
            You told me not to laugh….but….UFO’s……..seriously? WHY would you think that God would need UFO’s to take us out of here? Wow! I think somebody is lost in the Twilight Zone…………lololol

            Seriously, you need the power of the Holy Ghost, to guide you into all truth:

            Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
            Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
            (Brenda)

          • Mark says:

            Brenda, why do we; drive in cars, fly in planes, float in boats? Do you honestly think that the angels just flit about aimlessly in heaven flapping their wings? Do you honestly think that God has no technology? If you do brother, then you are living in a daydream :-(

            Anyway, just something to ponder.. KJV scriptures ;-)

            http://www.bibleufo.com/index.htm

            P.S. You guys need an auto switcher for user names sake.. :-)

          • suez says:

            When Jesus ascended into Heaven, did they say a saucer picked him up??? Maybe it was Captain Kirk and the star-ship fleet!!! LOL You crack me up!!! :)

          • Mark says:

            All it said was that a cloud received him out of sight, we know nothing more at this time girl.

          • Ron Murphy says:

            And the Lord said unto Scotty,” Beam me up Scotty!” Mark 17:2 :)

          • Ron Murphy says:

            So mark do you believe Jesus is coming back in His Cadillac or His Mercedes?

          • Mark says:

            Ron, very funny NOT. As I said to Sue, we will find out when event transpires ;-)

          • suez says:

            Oh, my goodness it just gets better and better!!! Sighing, shaking my head, rolling my eyes, big time!!!! He said he is coming back on a White Horse,not in a flying saucer Mark!! God is not a man that he would lie!!!

          • Mark says:

            Yeah you sure are out to lunch girl :-( Since when do horses fly, especially in outer space? Get real!

            Anyway, the scripture is symbolic as I’ve repeatedly tried to explain. But we won’t know the score till the arrival time. However I guarantee you when he does come, there will be no denying it ;-)

          • Ron Murphy says:

            I absolutely do Mark every single word of it. Even the symbolic part will be played out in a literal way. Example the 7 trumpet will be blown by 7 angels, at the same time 7 vial will be poured upon the earth, all in a symbolic fashion, but just for representation. God said His word was true. I believe it is. He said it will not pass away. I believe it won’t. My trust is in Him only. I have found Him to be trustworthy. He will not lie. Yes, very literal indeed, Mark.

          • Mark says:

            Ron, everything you’ve stated here is only your opinion, your private interpretation of scripture :-(

            2Pe 1:20 KJV – Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

            As for symbolic factor, yes things are of literal essence, but not necessarily always as stated. Example…

            Eph 2:6 KJV – And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

            Are we literally seated in heaven?

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
            Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

          • Mark says:

            Ron, interpreting scripture is NOT adding or taking away from the words within. Changing text and publishing it is, like with varied bible versions. But since the original texts are long gone, all we have are translations, which may or may not be accurate.

            Anyway, if the prophecies are happening as I believe they are, then speculating on things is of mere opinion. It’s up to the reader to decid what they want to believe. Comprende?

            Btw you speculate in what you believe just as much as I do brother ;-) When the Lord returns we will know the real score. And you know that as much as I do! What does Daniel say…

            Dan 12:4 KJV – But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

            P.S. We are still trying to learn the mysteries ;-)

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Zeph. No Wrath is not Tribulation, Tribulation is a time of trial not punishment. Wrath is punishment. Tribulation is for the children of God, wrath is for the sinners, didn’t Isaiah 13 tell you that? Think about it. Sinners don’t go through tribulation, Show me if I’m wrong, but every where I see it is Christians that endure tribulation.

            Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
            Luk 21:26 Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

          • Mark says:

            Ron, those dark events are happening today. But that isn’t the great tribulation. That happens after the abomination of desolation event. Midpoint of Daniels 70th week. The rapture of the church clearly occurs at the 7th trumpet, and the event which precedes it is the 6th trumpet (war). Therefore that last war must be the great tribulation period? But then who’s to say that the 7th trumpet doesn’t continue the tribulation?

            Anyway, too many mysteries to decipher for my poor head to handle tonight. The scripture is simply too vague about things. However as we get closer unto the end, I suspect much new understanding will prevail?

          • suez says:

            Yes Mark, we go in the 7th and last Trump!! 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. Ron may disagree with me, but that is what the word says…This is what I believe anyway!! Personally I believe the seals may have already started to be opened….just my opinion. :)

          • Mark says:

            Sue, I believe that not only have the seals been opened, but also that most of the trumpets are blowing. And quite logical, as not only does history declare it all, but also the rapture occurs at the 7th trumpet. Therefore, the other trumpets must have blown by then? Logical thought? ;-)

            Well I tell you in all truth that 1-5 have blown, and some are still blowing. Anyway, go here and decide for yourself… (my page) Check with KJV if you like ;-)

            http://aeroventure.com/END-TIMES/Rev-7-trumpets.htm

            As for the seals, all have been opened ages ago. Else how could the next trumpet saga begin? Anyway, again decide for yourself…

            http://aeroventure.com/END-TIMES/Rev-4-horses.htm

            P.S. We are on the edge of Daniels 70th week. And war is on the horizon, as well peace talks in Israel. So which can we expect next, war or peace?

            It will be most interesting what transpires, and may also give clues to future prophetic issues? ;-)

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Sue I also feel that the seal are either being opened now or that they are just about to be opened. Perhaps in the hand of the God, at least.
            Please take the time to look at the study I did, see if it makes sense to you. I value your input. Let the Holy Spirit lead you.

          • suez says:

            Where do I find it Ron? Thanks

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Okay, I don’t agree with you or Sue, So I’m just going to try give my view, take it or leave it, up to you.

            1. First are the 1st and 2nd seals. They are the first half of the week of Daniel for 31/2 years. White and Red Horse. Obtain the kingdom flattery and by peace and then wars with the other horns in the kingdom.

            2. Second the 3rd, 4th, and 5th seals. This is the tribulation period the last half of the week of Daniel, 3 1/2 years. the black horse is the antichrist, wounded to the head, coming back to life, the beast that was and is not and yet is. this is the start of persecution, of God’s people and the great deception, and tribulation. The pale horse are those that die through tribulation at the hand of the antichrist. The number will be many despite what many believe. More killed at the latter part are those of the 5th seal, until their fellow brethren is killed as they were.
            3. The 6th seal is the rapture of the dead and the living saints that remain. The 14000 will be sealed at around the same time as the rapture. We go to heaven with Christ, at this point to prepare for the battle of the day of the Lord, at Armageddon. all saint are in heaven at this point. Only the 144000 remain of God’s people, on the earth being sealed of God, for the protection from God’s wrath, Rev. 7:1-3. Note this is just after the rapture that just occurred in Rev. 6:12.

            But, no mention of rapture you say? But then look what Luke said.

            Luk 21:25 And there shall be<b. signs in the sun,and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
            Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
            Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

            Now these things in verse 28 are referring to the signs given in Luke 21: 25.

            4. The 7th seal. With the rapture out of the way and the 144000 sealed, and the multitude seen in heaven from the rapture, Rev.7:9-14, then comes the wrath of God, the 7th seal to close the story in completion. The 7th seal is the chapter of God’s wrath upon the world of sinners and only the Jews are spared as they was in Pass Over, in Egypt. This is signified in Rev. 9:4, during the 5th trumpet of the 7th seal( God’s wrath ). The seven trumpets complete the end time events of Revelation and closing of the book of 7 seals. All that follows in the book of Revelation are explanations of these events, expounding these events in greater detail with each passing vision. It is as simple as that. Chapter 10 and 11 down to Rev. 11:12 are such of the expounding laid in to expound before the final end in the 7th trumpet. the 7th trumpet signifies the end of time. The kingdom of God is here on earth to begin anew.

            Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
            Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

            This Mystery is not the church, but the Mystery of all things written, the church was not declared to the prophets.

          • suez says:

            I guess it makes a difference how fast you think the trumps can go. If the 6th trump blows, and we may be taken up right at the end of the 6th, when the 7th sounds. LIKE minutes. That would make a difference. I think they will go quite fast, and it won’t take long to pour out the vials, since they are in big wide containers. They will pour fast!!! LOL :)

          • Mark says:

            Sue, the seals and trumpets don’t occur instantly, they can involve varied time, as with all prophesies.

            In fact as Jesus proved, prophecy is not timely. One part may be of the remote past, yet another part of the distant future.

            Luk 4:18 KJV – The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
            Luk 4:19 KJV – To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
            Luk 4:20 KJV – And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

            Isa 61:1 KJV – The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
            Isa 61:2 KJV – To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

            P.S. The later part is

          • Mark says:

            Sorry, posted too quick.. late.. sleepy.

            I meant to say that latter part is yet future.. the great tribulation ;-)

            Anyway, regarding prophecy, it’s not cut and dried. There are varied variables involved, as seen above.

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Only one truth , Mark. It will happen only one way , not your way , not mine, but God’s way.

          • Mark says:

            Correct Ron :-) But Gods way is reality brother ;-)

            Look around you, prophecy is indeed happening. And you can deny it all you want, but we are very close to the end now. Possibly mere years or even months away.. no one knows.

            All of the end times signs Jesus proclaimed are in full swing now. If you can’t see this brother, you are indeed in deep slumber :-(

          • Ron Murphy says:

            The fifth trumpet:
            Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
            Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

            Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
            Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

            Perhaps they will be fast sounding, but they will be long lasting never the less.

            Now the only way it will work if the last trump of the 7 trumps of wrath are the rapture, is if Christ comes back to earth gathers His saints in the air and comes straight on down to earth at that very instant to do battle, because the 7th trumpet and 7th vial is the battle of Armageddon. That is when He takes the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever.

            Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

          • suez says:

            I don’t have it figured out. Don’t claim to. But I don’t think anyone knows for sure. People are just guessing. I know what the Lord showed me in: 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. And no man, will change my mind. God literately jolted me with it, and until he tells me different, that is what I will believe. Sorry.

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Zec_14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

            Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
            The Bible also said, we are not appointed to wrath so we will have to be gone, before hand. Also the Fifth trumpet will be on everyone but the 144000. So the saints will have to be gone because they were not mentioned.

          • Ron Murphy says:

            1 Thess no peace through trib because the antichrist will come against the children of God to scatter their power, But before the 3 1/2 year tribulation they will say peace, peace, because the false messiah promised them peace, as their protector.
            1 Thess and Joel is the Armies of the Lord again in the wrath of God. We will follow Christ on our horses coming to avenge. As in the days of Noah, Mark , as in the day of Noah, the rain came as a thief.

          • Mark says:

            Ron, which scriptures? I can’t abide by your notes alone.

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Your verses, Mark. 1 Thess. 5:2-4, and Joel 2:1-3, now if you would just ask a couple questions at a time, it would be much easier for both of us to keep up with.

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Tribulation is not with darkness that is the wrath that is in darkness. The Tribulation is First. It last as you said, last half of Daniel last week of indignation. Half of the 7 year period. At least we can agree on that one. Mark, if you would trust me on the lay out of Revelation I could show you many things. But you would have to be willing to go with me each step of it. You would have to get rid of all that garbage you have learned and start over. You pray about it and do what God leads you to do. To learn more of tribulation period Rev 13 & 14 pretty well somes it up. But note that so does the 3rd, 4th, and 5th seals of Rev. 6. The 6th seal in chapter 6 is the rapture, as described by Matt 24: 29-31. This is also the sealing of the 14400, so that they are protected from the wrath, which is being prepared to be poured out, so shortly there after.

          • Mark says:

            So then according to your post tribulation rapture theory, we believers are all gonna die as martyrs, or starve to death as wilderness refugees?

            Rev 13:15 KJV – And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
            Rev 13:17 KJV – And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

            Either that or accept the mark and perish? I guess so much for grace salvation hope lost brother :-(

            But then how can you explain…?

            1Th 4:17 KJV – Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

            P.S. The mark of the beast will be enforced, it will not be an option during the tribulation period. And those whom refuse it will be killed. That means the majority of the population will die, leaving only those whom are marked left over.

            Brother your post tribulation theory simply doesn’t fit with scripture declare. It wipes out the hope for living believers, at time of rapture.

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Mar_9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

            He did not say many, but some.So some will not die in tribulation, but they will suffer great suffering, never the less. And that power at the end of that verse, Reckon that could be the same as:

            Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
            For surely this is after the tribulation, Matt 24 says the same.

          • Mark says:


            Ron Murphy:

            Mar_9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
            He did not say many, but some.So some will not die in tribulation, but they will suffer great suffering, never the less. And that power at the end of that verse, Reckon that could be the same as:
            Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
            For surely this is after the tribulation, Matt 24 says the same.

            You just don’t get it do you Ron? The wrath will be upon unbelievers, those marked and condemned. The mark is given prior during tribulation part. All born believers then will die by resistance to the beast. Only the wicked will witness the second coming from earth, and they will mourn.

            Rev 16:1 KJV – And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
            Rev 16:2 KJV – And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

            Btw that first verse Mar 9:1 has nothing to do with the 2nd coming. It’s Jesus’ saying in regards to the coming Pentecost. And sure enough, there were some in that group that witnessed the kingdom come to power on the day of Pentecost. Please don’t take scripture out of context, it only confuses issues :-(

            We believers constitute the kingdom, or did you not know that?

            Act 1:6 KJV – When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
            Act 1:7 KJV – And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
            Act 1:8 KJV – But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

            Act 19:8 KJV – And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
            Act 28:31 KJV – Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
            1Cr 4:20 KJV – For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
            1Cr 15:24 KJV – Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

            Ron, go back to sleep, before you fill this blog with more nonsense bible interpretations, and lead other lost souls further astray :-)

          • Ron Murphy says:

            On your PS You are thinking in pretrib views. I try to think in both views if I want to see clearly. Now look at it in the Post trib view. Many will not die until after tribulation, The wrath of God hasn’t happened yet. Quit being so narrow minded. Look at all opinions. Your Hope is for life here , that is flawed to begin with. You seek to save your life. You shall loose it, eternally. We are willing to give our life to live eternally. Big difference. Our hope is in Jesus Christ as it should be for all man kind since the being of time. Your hope is in escaping death by rapture, you seek to save you life, by rapture. Who would be more justified in God’s eyes?

          • suez says:

            Oh, Great points Ron, and a big Amen!!!! Mark you should never read the Bible to try and gather facts to prove you point. You should read it with a open mind, asking God to reveal HIS truth to you, not as you would want, but as he would want!!! Big difference in reading the word!!! :)

          • Mark says:

            Ron WAKE UP! The tribulation will be a death sentence for all but the wicked. Scripture clearly states it, and the end time elite plans show it. The beginning of tribulation will be the ending of new believers on earth.

            The elite plan to destroy all but their own kind. They are the small group that will witness from earth the second coming. All believers will witness things from heaven after rapture.

          • Mark says:

            On the contrary brother, the tribulation will be very dark indeed, the wrath even more so. Unless you think that being mercilessly slaughtered for refusal unto the beast system is joyful? As I prior stated, the tribulation will be terrible in all points. The only escape from it will be by death. I hardly consider that joyful :-)

        • suez says:

          Half true Ron…LOL No, really Mark, I haven’t been here for a few days. And if I was here, I have only read a few. And I have been deleting a lot, even before I read them. Too many lately, I can’t take that much time just reading all these. Didn’t mean to ignore you Sir.

          • Mark says:

            No problem Sue, I know the feeling.. my box is full now {ugh!}. I wish NTEB would separate things, send only replies to my posts, not everyone’s post. But I guess technically not possible?

        • suez says:

          Oh, but I have to say. You said, ” Are we all not Christians?” I have no idea? I don’t know what is anyone’s heart here. God only knows. I know no one on here personally. I would hope all are, but that is truly beyond my knowledge!! Only God knows that one!! :)

          • Mark says:

            True, as there are atheists here too. Anyway, my comment was only concerning us believers. And I will only have to assume things by the comments they give. Only God knows whom is his own ;-)

  43. Mark says:

    Engineer, for your eyes.. explaining rapture ;-)

    • engineer says:

      OK Mark I saw your video, now here is my belief on the Rapture.
      http://www.worldslastchance.com/videos#play882

      • suez says:

        Awesome video engineer. I would of liked it better if they would have used the King James version, and called Jesus, Jesus instead of the other names. But other than those things, it was great. That is how I believe at this point anyhow!!

      • Mark says:

        Brother, the problem with your video is that only the wicked will witness the second coming.

        Rev 12:11 KJV – And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

        Rev 13:15 KJV – And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

        Killed means KILLED.. it’s not a metaphor. And the tribulation group will be huge. No believers will remain behind, all will be martyrd or starve to death.

        And then how can you explain…?

        1Th 4:17 KJV – Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

        P.S. The mark of the beast will be enforced, it will not be an option during the tribulation period. And those whom refuse it will be killed. That means the majority of the population will die, leaving only those whom are marked left over.

        Brother your post tribulation theory simply doesn’t fit with scripture declare. It wipes out the hope for living believers, at time of rapture.

        Plus you fail to see the gravity of the end time situation developing in the world now. The elite plan to kill all but themselves and their friends. And the Antichrist will be their NWO king.

        • suez says:

          Mark are you blind? did you look at the scriptures given on that video??? I pray God opens your eyes to the truth.

          • Mark says:

            Yes I know those scriptures Sue ;-) But the whole post trib thing contradicts the promises of God to the living believer, and as well much of the stuff Paul wrote concerning grace salvation.

            Also do not forget that the tribulation will yield zero live believers, ALL will be either martyrs or starve to death. The Antichrist will be more ruthless than Hitler was!

            Rev 20:4 KJV – And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

            If the Christian church must go through the tribulation, then it can only emerge as a ghost, as will be the case with the tribulation church. The latter no longer under grace, but again under law. That law being to resist the beast or perish with it. It will not be a forgiving hour.

            Do you honestly believe that there will be any living believers come out of the GT? If you do, then your in la la land. The great tribulation crowd are all dead. They were beheaded by the beast.

            Maybe you’re the one whom needs to awaken girl? ;-)

          • suez says:

            God has always, and will always have a remnant Mark!! Did God not protect Noah in the flood?? Did not God take the children of Israel through the Red Sea? Plus the countless other miracles in the Old Testament, let alone the New Testament!! Don’t you think God is able to protect his Children? If not, Then you have a very weak precept of who, and what Almighty God is. And the fact that you don’t believe that the Book of Revelation is relevant, speaks volumes to me about your Biblical knowledge! Yikes. I can see why you have to believe in Pre-trib, if a wind of a small Tornado that got close to you, drives you into a panic attack! Where is your faith in God? I have have been through two Tornadoes, at my place Mark. The first was coming right for my place. I watched it until it got to about 150′ from my horse lot. I sat down, and started saying, “I trust you Jesus, I trust you Jesus” I knew no matter what happened, whether I died, I would be with Christ, Whether I lived, Christ was with me! I wasn’t scared at all. When it was over, I looked out, and it was like God had cupped his hand at my property, and it had literately turned 90% at the last minute and went 100′ ft. to the So. into a empty pasture that was beside my house. Pretty amazing when you consider it was going no. east!!! Then it went across the street and destroyed my neighbor’s house. She later died from her injuries. :( I had damage, but all my 18 horses, and myself was not touched!!! I give him all the glory for it! It was a true miracle!! I don’t know why he didn’t protect her. I wrestled with that for a while. I felt guilt, but had to give that to the Lord too!! That was in 2000. I trusted my Savior!!! No matter what! In 2008 same thing happened. God turned it at the last minute, and it missed us by just a bit. Again some damage, but we were fine! Then 2 weeks later, a horrible flood. 4′ of water all over our 10 acres of property!!! Again I trusted God through it. How would your faith stand up to these things Mark..You said you were scared to death at your smaller experience. Where is your FAITH in the one who created you? I sure can see why your looking for a escape!! Your faith wouldn’t hold up. You better start praying for more faith in him, and that you can stand strong, no matter what!!!

          • Mark says:


            suez:

            God has always, and will always have a remnant Mark!! Did God not protect Noah in the flood?? Did not God take the children of Israel through the Red Sea? Plus the countless other miracles in the Old Testament, let alone the New Testament!! Don’t you think God is able to protect his Children? If not, Then you have a very weak precept of who, and what Almighty God is. And the fact that you don’t believe that the Book of Revelation is relevant, speaks volumes to me about your Biblical knowledge! Yikes. I can see why you have to believe in Pre-trib, if a wind of a small Tornado that got close to you, drives you into a panic attack! Where is your faith in God? I have have been through two Tornadoes, at my place Mark. The first was coming right for my place. I watched it until it got to about 150′ from my horse lot. I sat down, and started saying, “I trust you Jesus, I trust you Jesus” I knew no matter what happened, whether I died, I would be with Christ, Whether I lived, Christ was with me! I wasn’t scared at all. When it was over, I looked out, and it was like God had cupped his hand at my property, and it had literately turned 90% at the last minute and went 100′ ft. to the So. into a empty pasture that was beside my house. Pretty amazing when you consider it was going no. east!!! Then it went across the street and destroyed my neighbor’s house. She later died from her injuries. I had damage, but all my 18 horses, and myself was not touched!!! I give him all the glory for it! It was a true miracle!! I don’t know why he didn’t protect her. I wrestled with that for a while. I felt guilt, but had to give that to the Lord too!! That was in 2000. I trusted my Savior!!! No matter what! In 2008 same thing happened. God turned it at the last minute, and it missed us by just a bit. Again some damage, but we were fine! Then 2 weeks later, a horrible flood. 4′ of water all over our 10 acres of property!!! Again I trusted God through it. How would your faith stand up to these things Mark..You said you were scared to death at your smaller experience. Where is your FAITH in the one who created you? I sure can see why your looking for a escape!! Your faith wouldn’t hold up. You better start praying for more faith in him, and that you can stand strong, no matter what!!!

            Sue, I have had and will always have a morbid fear of death :-( Correct in that my faith is weak in disaster matters, but it’s strong otherwise. We obviously don’t view life the same girl ;-)

            As for pre-trib belief, it’s because the bible declares it so :-) However the resurrection timing is not easily found in scripture. But there are clues. One is in 2 Thess 2:7. Another is in 1 Cor 15:23-24. Another is in the 7th trumpet. And yet another is in Daniel 12:1.. among others ;-)

            Btw I used to have a page which clearly detailed things, but seems page is now gone :-(

            Anyway, since the 7th trumpet is the rapture, which trumpet is the tribulation in? The only possibility is the 6th trumpet war? But then that complicates Daniels 70th week? Plus the 6th trumpet states nothing regarding the temple and abomination of desolation, just another Mideast or world war. The army will be huge 200,000,000 soldiers, and the death toll huge as well. For certain a tribulation, and also called a woe. WWIII

            Rev 9:12 KJV – One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
            Rev 9:13 KJV – And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
            Rev 9:14 KJV – Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
            Rev 9:15 KJV – And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
            Rev 9:16 KJV – And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
            Rev 9:17 KJV – And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
            Rev 9:18 KJV – By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
            Rev 9:19 KJV – For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
            Rev 9:20 KJV – And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
            Rev 9:21 KJV – Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

            Therefore the tribulation must be hidden within the 7th trumpet period? Also called a woe. And makes total sense too, in numbers aspect; 70th week, 7 years, 7th trumpet.

            1Cr 15:51 KJV – Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
            Rev 10:7 KJV – But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

            What mystery? The rapture/resurrection ;-)

            And if so, then the rapture must precede the revealing of Antichrist, which will be the decree to build the third temple. The church will not be present on earth to witness things, but I’m sure that Jesus will provide us the imagery somehow.

            So now do you see why I can’t buy the post-trib fable? ;-)

          • Mark says:

            Sue, you are aware that martial law voids the constitution, leaving us with zero freedom? In fact the Boston Marathon had a temporary episode of just that. Can you even imagine what a national martial law call would be? Or even worse, global martial law!

            Whether you believe it or not, government controls us 100%. And if government decides to drop the hammer, then we are all screwed. If you can’t see the logic girl, then you are living in a daydream.

            THE TRIBULATION WILL YIELD NO HUMAN SURVIVORS!

            And as Paul declares quite clearly…

            1Th 5:3 KJV – For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

            Do you have any clue what Paul means? It means that there will be no living escape during the tribulation. And if there is no living escape, then whom witness the second coming? Scripture declares…

            Mat 24:30 KJV – And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

            Why do they mourn, and whom are they? They weep in anguish knowing that wrath awaits them. They are the kingdom of the beasts subjects (the elite faction). The last believers slaughtered long ago at their wicked blade.. or however they kill them.

          • suez says:

            Mark, I really wish you would realize that people like Ron, Brenda, and other people here, and I do know things also. Not just you! You act like you are the only one in the “KNOW”…Sorry to inform you, your not!!! Yes I knew all of that! May I ask and have you answer honestly something? How old are you? And how many years have you been Born Again? Do you attend a church? What kind of a church. Just wondered. Thanks

          • Mark says:

            Well Sue, if you know all this stuff, why do you keep insisting that there will be believers alive on earth during the tribulation terror? As I recall, the Jews are warned to flee to the mountains, where their deliverance awaits?

            As for your curiosities ;-)…

            I’m 52, long time Christian. No more church games, too corrupt. But once belonged to a
            Christian fellowship called The Way International. Learned much more there than in churches. :-)

          • suez says:

            I got news for you Mark, true Christians, don’t dabble in New Age things…Just saying You are walking on dangerous ground. I warn you in love. Your site you quoted to Herman is totally New AGE!! You may fool some of the more New Born Babes, or those with little Scriptural knowledge, but you not fooling this ole gal!!! :) And for you to have said what you did about the book of Revelation borders on Blaspheme!!!! God is not pleased with that comment, trust me!!

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Amen sue, The devil has his orgs out there, too. The foolish will fall for it. Those not with strong roots in the word of God, because they mixed it with bad fruit, and molded bread.

          • Mark says:

            Sue, do you have anything but accusations to offer me? Also I do believe making false accusation is a sin?

            As for the New Age site, there is still good bible scripture references in it. Stuff that I would have to search hard for otherwise. As for Herman, I was only responding to his comment.. no harm done.

            What blasphemous things did I say regarding Revelation?

      • suez says:

        Engineer, I liked the Rapture one, but started watching another one, and I discern your may be Seven Day Adventist? True??? :) If so, I do not go along with the Sabbath belief. Thanks anyway!! :( But I still like the Rapture video!! :)

      • Mark says:

        Also, why is there no mention of any ‘Great Tribulation’ in the church letters? I would think that Paul would have warned us about it? Plus what comfort is there in the GT, it would totally void Paul’s statements of ‘comfort’, and as well grace ‘salvation’ hope.

        Also please explain this…

        2Th 2:7 KJV – For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
        2Th 2:8 KJV – And then shall that Wicked be revealed
        , whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

        • Ron Murphy says:

          Paul had enough knowledge to know that the Lord was his comfort even in death, Steven also seen comfort in his death. Many Christians do, on their death bed. It is those that fear death that take no comfort in it.

          Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

          • Mark says:

            Paul indeed had strong faith, but not all Christians do :-(

            Steven?

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Act 6:8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

            Act 6:10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.

            Act 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
            Act 7:58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man’s feet, whose name was Saul.
            Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
            Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

          • Mark says:

            As I suspected, but his name wasn’t Steven.. just sayin’

  44. Gotta go, be back this evening.
    I love the Word of God! It is life! Amen!!

  45. engineer says:

    Hello Suez, You Quoted,
    With all due respect Engineer, how do you interrupt this scripture then? ”1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” Or: Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:” ”Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”” I don’t think this shows that everyone is dead!!

    Yes, there will be those left alive to see the second coming of Jesus Christ. (very few though). The dead will be resurected and joined with those who remain alive.
    This is all one event. To me..the Rapture doesn’t make sense because it tells people that God will take a few now and then come back again during the second coming for the rest of the saints.

    This is how I see the Rapture. Example: Let’s say your home watching television, listening to the radio or doing whatever choir you do at home. Suddenly an EAS (emergency alert sytem) message comes thru the airwaves. You must seek shelter they say because of some natural disaster or an attack has happened. You have minutes, maybe seconds to react. You don’t make it and you die. Death is like sleeping because when you wake up, it will seem like you took a short nap. (remember when Jesus told the disciples that Lazarus was sleeping and the brought him back to life). Jesus compared death to sleep, Thereby the Bible verse states “in the twinkling of an eye” The dead will rise. That is how I interpret the Rapture to be. You are either going to be sleeping (dead) or alive when Jesus comes back for the second time, for all eyes to see. So the dead will be reunited with those who are left alive. So..it doesn’t make sense to me why God would take some saints during a so called Rature and then come back and take some latter. That’s my understanding on the subject. God Bless.
    All one glorius event.

    • suez says:

      So I think you are saying, the gathering together, or the catching away is at the end, at the last Trump? If so, then we would be in agreement Brother!!! LOL :)

  46. I think we could simplify things. There is only one hell, an that is not being in Heaven. This whole bit about hell fire and brimstone was put in the bible to control the masses. Who is to say that the Rockefeller’s Eugenics program is wrong. Take the animal kingdom, even the mothers kill some of their offspring. Why I am not sure, but I have seen it. Do the mothers detect some thing wrong in one of her offspring or what. You all are sounding like a bunch of Nostradamus theorists.

    • suez says:

      Obviously Herman, you have never spent any quality time in Gods word, The Holy Bible. Because then, you would never make such a idiotic statement!! :-(

    • Ron Murphy says:

      It a funny thing to me, just why did the Son of God say more about Hell than anyone I know? Evidently you deny Him.

  47. I really don’t know why any one would laugh at the UFO scenario. I have personally seen one with a friend of mine who saw it also. I wasn’t high or drunk when we saw it, an I have to say it was not of this world. We had nothing flying in the late 50′s that was that big, or that quiet. Didn’t Ezekiel leave in a flaming chariot? Just about every religion has descriptions of a war fought in the heavens. Who’s to say that it wasn’t a battle between real space ships, that they described.

    • Mark says:

      Here ya go Herman, the bible truth in UFO matters. ;-)

      http://www.bibleufo.com/index.htm

      • suez says:

        Herman, for the Love of God, don’t go there! It is totally a New Age sight!!! I warn you in love brother. Unless you are fully versed in scripture and have the Gift of Discerning of Spirits, stay away, or you will be opening yourself up to demon spirits of the New Age. Mark, now I totally see you for what you are! If you go along with this site, you are a New Ager!!! They even advertise the Psychic Directory on their, plus they are promoting this woman: Barbara is now a Reiki Master!! A REIKI Master??? Big time NEW AGE!!! And the sign there was also a New Age sign. Mark and I thought you knew so much?? Now I know you have no discernment what so ever. I was there less than 30 seconds and could discern it is New Age! What is wrong with YOU???? I will now never listen to anything you have to say. Sir, you need deliverance if this is what you are into!!! And I have my sincere doubts you have been Born Again by Jesus Christ!!!!!! :( How very sad….

        • Mark says:

          Sue, I don’t endorse the whole site. I only have it for the biblical references and compares. For learning only. :-)

          And I am NOT a New Age goon. So drop that false accusation immediately! :-(

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Just why are you learning from such people then Mark? Can you not see the err of your ways? And then if that isn’t enough, you come back teaching of that way. Do you not see the err of your way? You trust not in the Lord for your ways. You follow man, and you offend God in doing so. Do you not see the err of your ways, Mark?

          • Mark says:

            Ron, the bible isn’t the only knowledge source ;-)

            Plus site link wasn’t for you, it was for Herman!

          • Ron Murphy says:

            You are totally and completely wrong on that one mark and you are foolish to think that way. No wonder you can’t see truth when it stares you in the eye.

            Pro 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

            Deu 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
            Deu 4:30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;

            Lev 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

            Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

          • Mark says:

            Only in your opinion Ron, only in your opinion ;-)

          • suez says:

            Oh, so now we go to the devil for Biblical references??? Come on Mark, don’t you know better than that? I would hope so. Please stay away from that evil trash. If you need Biblical reference go to the Bible its’ self our get on a Christian sight. Light House Trails is a great site if you need understanding. And by the way if you are not a New Ager, then why hang out at a New Age sight??? Can’t have it both ways Mark. :( Can set on the fence, their guy!!!

          • Mark says:

            Did you explore site Sue? I’m guessing NOT?

            P.S. Christian sites are speculation too ;-)

          • suez says:

            Mark, yes, it took me 15 seconds to see it was a New Age site. I looked for about a min. more because I was so shocked that you would go there…let alone send someone who has no Biblical insight. Why would I want to spend time at a Occult sight? Like you said, and I quote…”New Age is of the occult sir, NOT recommended! :-(” then I have to ask,,why do you go there. What has darkness to offer a child of God? Your way out there Mark…I am so sorry for that, I truly am. You are walking in deception and don’t even realize it, even though you may be sincere. But being sincere, won’t be a excuse at the judgement! :-( For God will ask, why??? And you will have no excuse then. God is not pleased with those who choose to draw from Satan and his crowd!!

      • suez says:

        Mark, this continues to bother me. You say you just go their for some reference and comparisons. But yet you told Herman to go there to get Bible Truth??? I think you are hiding a bit there. Your talking out of both sides of you mouth there guy. And the truth is in your postings!!!

        • Mark says:

          Sue, if you check the site links at top, you will see it has scripture, with authors notes. I’m not saying they are right, but still the scriptures I found interesting.

          The Lord Yhovah of the Old Testament, who became the Lord Jesus of the New Testament, is described as flying in thick clouds, swift clouds, bright clouds, dark clouds, white clouds, low clouds, great clouds, and fiery clouds. There are platforms, vessels, whirling chariots of fire, sky thrones, fiery horses, cherubims, thick darkness, great fire, whirlwinds, fiery wheels, pavilions, dark waters, storms, sky dwellings, rolls, and sanctuaries. Whether, or not, one believes these objects are actually flying vehicles that the God of the Bible lives in, appears with, travels in, and is considered the seat of his power is a matter of opinion. The fact that they do not appear without him or his ambassadors, and that, in most major appearances, he and other beings are clearly described as directly associated with these flying objects, is undeniable.
          http://www.bibleufo.com/subjects.htm

          P.S. There are yet mysteries in the heavens undisclosed ;-)

          • suez says:

            Are you truly nuts??? don’t you know that Satan knows and uses scripture all the time to deceive people!!! He used them on Jesus and Jesus rebuked him. My gosh man are you that stupid???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? I’ve tried to tell you and show you in a loving and concerned way. If you choose to ignore, and stay with your seducing web sites. The fine have a good trip. I am done trying to help you. You can’t be helped because your not teachable. :( I now shake the dust off my feet!! :(

          • Mark says:

            Sue, you can’t teach me, only God can :-)

          • Ron Murphy says:

            God can’t teach you either, Mark. You are looking away from God. Got you eyes on the waves, you are sinking fast.

          • Mark says:

            Oh your very wrong Ron, God can and does teach me things, many things. You just close your ears because you are blind. Anyway, in due time I’m gonna prove once and for all that your post tribulation claim is total nonsense. Watch and see ;-)

            P.S. All the proof is right there in Revelation itself :-)

          • Mark says:

            Sorry I meant to say eyes :-(

    • Ron Murphy says:

      Well for one thing how would a bird eat a space ship, but then if you believe it was space ships then, maybe you believe the bird were space ships , I mean where does all this foolishness end. It ends with the Word of God. What He said is true, He promised that it was True, any other that says it’s not, is a liar.

      Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

      • It seems to me that he was using the word fowls when he was talking about UFO’s. He could have used that word, so man would know that it was flying or could fly. The bible was written by man who was influenced by God. Who’s to say that Satan didn’t slip in an change some of the words or wording. Because from what I was taught, he still has his rein over mankind. What was it, 2,000 years? I understand it will be up shortly. Am I correct?

        • Ron Murphy says:

          It will be up shortly, But do know and understand God is greater than satan, many times over. He can protect his word and deliver it to His People. He had it written for us to read and understand. It was guarded through the ages, just for us today. He is an able God. I take the Bible very literal, and I understand it very well. The people that can not see it literal, are the ones that don’t understand it. He said He was not the author of confusion, When we get to see Him face to face, we will wonder why we didn’t see it so plainly, it was right before our eyes. If you will throw everything you’ve learned out the door and take everything in His word to be literal and trust in Him to show you, you will begin to get wisdom to make all understanding become clear. Man has greatly corrupted the word of God on his own, he didn’t need satans help. Jesus warned of this to the Pharisees. It is true today as well.

        • suez says:

          Psa 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path” “sa 119:114 Thou art my hiding place and my shield: I hope in thy word. ” “Isa 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.” Eze 12:28 Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; There shall none of my words be prolonged any more, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord GOD.” “Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. ” “Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.” “Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” God’s word is the only truth we have in this life. To not believe it is not perfect, leaves us with nothing! I choose God Word!!!

    • suez says:

      I for one, do not deny your and most people’s experiences seeing these things. I had a weird experience when I was a kid myself, with my cousin, and he seen it too. Do I have the answers, NO! But God does, and until he wants to tell us or open to us what or who it is, I will just trust him. Of coarse I have a strong curiosity, that is my nature, I want everything explained and I want to know all things. But there is just some things we don’t know, and may never know, until Jesus come back. And I don’t think he will need space ships to do that with. He is God, he can do anything, even walk through walls and time, and d-mentions!!! :)

  48. Does it not say in the Bible, seek and ye shall find. I find nothing wrong with some of the New Age stuff. I am seeking why some people are gifted with powers that most men do not seem to have an if they do they can’t use it. Like Arigo, the surgeon with a rusty knife, Edgar Cayce and so on. Don’t give me that crap about Satan being behind it. If there is such a character, I am sure he would never do anything to help mankind. Like if there is such a kind and loving God, why does he ever let there be such misery, pain and suffering to go one in this World. I don’t need to be born again. I am fine the way I am, an will continue to seek the truth.

    • Ron Murphy says:

      Yes it does, Seek and ye shall find, seek the devils work and ye shall surely find. But do you not know that God is greater than all/ Why would you want to seek anything other than the greatest, when He instructed you to seek Him for the answers?

      Jer 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
      Jer 17:6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.
      Jer 17:7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.
      Jer 17:8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.

      • Who says that I am seeking the devils work. Look at all the comments you religious fanatics write, very rarely do any of you agree on anything. It seems that you all read a quote from the bible and each come up with your interpretations. Who’s to say which one of you is right.

        • suez says:

          Only Jesus Christ is right Herman. We as Christians try our hardest to put our point of view on the Bible! But for some of it, mainly Prophecy, we have our own ideas. Many times that are not correct. But God’s word is truth, but we fall short as mere humans trying to figure out prophecy!!! :) Someday it will all be made clear, when Jesus comes, or when things transpire, then we will know for sure what he was saying!!! Gods people are not perfect, but we are forgiven! :)

    • Mark says:

      New Age is of the occult sir, NOT recommended! :-(

      So are you NOT a Christian (believer)?

      • suez says:

        Mark, then why in the world would you suggest a New Age sight to him??? That is my big question!!!!

        • Mark says:

          For the UFO scriptures only Sue ;-)

          • suez says:

            But Mark, use your head. You send someone that isn’t even Born Again to a devil site, so he can get off in yet another evil thing. Think about how dumb that was…

          • Mark says:

            Sue, I didn’t realize he wasn’t a Christian :-(

          • suez says:

            Mark, if you are truly a Born Again Christian, you need to pray for the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. Then maybe the Lord would give you the gift of the Discernment of Spirits if you asked him for it!!! You really need it in this day and age!!! :)

          • Mark says:

            Already done Sue, long ago :-)

          • Just who says that I am not a Christian? Do you have to be born again to be a Christian? I like Mark, at least he doesn’t have blinders on. Like the ones they use to put on horses, where they can only see straight ahead. It seems to me that a lot of you have tunnel vision.

          • Mark says:

            Sorry if I offended Herman :-( But yes you have to be born again to be a true Christian. However salvation is not as complicated as it is commonly taught. Anyway, to see where I firmly stand in matter, I highly suggest the following NETB study link…

            http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/pages/doctrine/the-eternal-security-of-the-believer.htm

            P.S. Just by your defensive action here, I’m now fairly certain that you are a true Christian believer? An atheist would not be defensive, as they have no faith whatsoever. And all other religions would call out their faith immediately.

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
            Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
            Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
            Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
            Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
            Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
            Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

          • suez says:

            Whoops Ron, sorry, I didn’t see think till after I wrote mine…LOL Great minds!!!! :)

          • Ron Murphy says:

            That fine Sue, Brenda said that was Fine, too. After all it was her posting. :)

          • suez says:

            Yes, Herman, You do have to be Born-Again to be a real Christian…the Bible says: “Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
            Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
            Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
            Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
            Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
            Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
            Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
            Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
            Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
            Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
            Joh 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
            Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?”
            Herman, we better not look to the left or to the right, but stay on the straight and narrow path!! Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
            Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
            Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
            Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
            Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
            Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
            Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
            Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
            Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
            Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
            Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
            You say you like Mark because he doesn’t have blinders on…Well maybe you like him, because he doesn’t stay on the narrow path, but crosses over to the broad path! That is walking on dangerous ground sir!! Get on the narrow path, that is Jesus Christ and his word, or perish on the broad road to destruction!! And that sir is the God honest truth!!! :)

          • suez says:

            I’m not trying to teach you, but to warn you of danger Mark. There is a difference. I for one would be happy if someone warned me, if I was getting into something in occultism. So go ahead, have fun!! And I would have to say also,,,what god are you hearing from? Because the God of the Bible would never, ever, ever, direct you to something in the occult!! So who are you hearing from Mark??? And I’m sure most on here would agree with me on that, if they would be brave enough to say so!! ;)

          • Mark says:

            What danger Sue? I’m not stupid you know. I can discern things good and bad imo. Plus the site has relevant scripture unto UFO theories. ;-)

          • suez says:

            What danger Mark?? I’m not even going to answer that, because it is such a dumb thing to say. Really? I doubt if you can discern. Beings your promoting New Age sites to folks with little understand about the Bible. For Pete’s sake, that is a absolute no brainier. Like I have said repeated times Mark. We don’t go to the devils territory looking for “relevant scripture”. That is such a idiotic thing to think and do, that I am truly out of words for you. I can’t imaging anybody that claims to be a Christian, even considering doing something that stupid!!! :(

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Mark you sound like the Hebrew children, saying to the priest, what danger are there in serving other gods? Done you now, you offend God by going to other avenues other than Him? That is why, I tell you God can’t teach you, you curse yourself from seeing the truth.

          • Ron Murphy says:

            Num_15:39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

            Psa_119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

            Pro_2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

            Pro_3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

    • suez says:

      I can tell you exactly how they have powers Herman. They are demonic powers. And if you don’t think Satan and his imps are real and have powers, then your a fool! Everything they do is all for a deception. The purpose is to deceive people into wanting more. “Exo 7:10 And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.
      Exo 7:11 Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.
      Exo 7:12 For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron’s rod swallowed up their rods.” You see the sorcerers have powers also, but theirs do not come from God! So beings there are only two powers in the Universe, God and Satan, who do you think gave Pharaoh’s sorcerers the power??? Man? Do we have power in ourselves? NO! Their power came from the devil. It is the same today. It is either powers of light (GOD) or darkness (devil). You have a choice, but I would suggest you choose wisely!! Because no mater how it is packaged, if it isn’t Godly, it is from the devil. :)

      • You say that Satan is using his demonic powers to deceive people into wanting more. How is that any different than you wanting more from God? Could you please enlighten me about the difference. Any good done out here that I see, I believe God is responsible for it. What good would Satan get if any of the good he does, God get the credit for it?

    • suez says:

      You need to read the book…The Beautiful Side of Evil, by Johanna Michaelsen! You should be able to get it on Amazon. She was a one time involved with a surgeon with a rusty knife. You may find it a interesting read!!! :) It is now out of print. But I got two from Amazon. I will write down what is says on the back cover::: “This is a true account of a young woman who, while in search spiritual truth, became a personal assistant to a psychic surgeon in Mexico for 14 months. Then, in answer to her prayers, God revealed the true source behind the miraculous healing’s she witnessed. Lifting the veil of deception, He allowed her to see the evil behind the outward appearance of beauty and holiness. Johanna reveals how this deadly deception is not isolated to her unusual experience but rather is invading our everyday lives and even our churches.” I just checked, Amazon has some available. You won’t be able to put it down!!!

      • I am talking about a mine foreman in Brazil. They even sent a team of doctors from New York to prove he was a Quack. He did just about any type of surgery, with no pain, no sutures, and only had one patient bleed, and he asked Jesus to stop the bleeding and it stopped. He could take no kind of payment for what he did. The AMA had him jailed for practicing medicine with out a license. He helped thousands, if not tens of thousands of people, an I bet you are going to tell me Satan was behind it. The doctors from New York, did publish the facts that he was for real until after his death. They were afraid that people from every where would travel down there to be healed. I also had two engineering friends that was healed by witch doctors in the Philippines. I will suggest that you read ” Worlds in Collision” by Immanuel Velikovsy, and his other book Earth in Up-heavel. The other book was “Arigo surgeon of the rusty knife” not by the same author.

        • suez says:

          Same type of thing in the book up above Herman. Same thing…same thing, same thing, same thing….she worked on thousand also!!! Only in Mexico.

          • There are always copy cats out there. When was this book published? I am pretty busy right now, so if I don’t hear from you about the published date, I will check it out some time in the future.

          • suez says:

            Maybe he is the copy cat… It was published by Harvest House Publishers in 1982~~! :) I already looked on Amazon, and their are some available. I think if you read it, it may be a real eye opener and a real help to you. Hopefully it would answer a lot of your questions. Let me know if you order it!! :)

  49. In a way, I hope he doesn’t come back in a flying saucer, or UFO, because some religious nut will kill him the minute he steps out.

    • Mark says:

      We will know when the hour arrives ;-) And no, as he can’t be killed anymore. The crucifixion was his death call.

      • suez says:

        He wasn’t killed Mark! Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
        Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
        down his life freely!!!

        • Mark says:

          True, but he did die on the cross? Therefore he can’t be killed when he returns, as the resurrected can’t die anymore.

          P.S. Was a slip up in wordage prior.. quick jot down :-(

  50. Can any of you tell me how many times Jesus has been on this Earth?

    • suez says:

      I wouldn’t dare to say Herman, as I have no idea. There are things in the old testament that could point to Christ being here now and then, but that is beyond my knowledge to give a count. We will know someday!! :)

    • Ron Murphy says:

      Impossible, He walked in the garden of Eden Daily.

  51. You all believe in God, because you have to have a reason for life. You believe he always was and always will be. You accept this because there has to be a starting point. You can’t accept the fact that God was not always there, or that he has family out there in the Universe some place. A thousand earth years might be like a minute of his time. Or the fact we might be his science experiment in his biology class in school. Or the fact there might be hundreds if not thousands of different races out there in the Universe. Or the fact our little solar system might be an atom in some thing else.

  52. Ron Murphy says:

    Well this logic might be alright , but we have just one little problem, “evidence.” But that isn’t just the end of the matter as you assume. you see once you really know God there is no more doubt, if He is real or not. He has the ability to prove Himself to an individual, to make all doubt disappear. In ways that can not be understood by man. It’s something each must experience for themselves. You should give Him a try. You would be amazed what would happen. Of coarse you could just write us off as loony, but then again you just might be missing out on the best thing that ever happened in you life??? He said try me, see if I’m good. That challenge is to you. Only you can experience it for yourself.

  53. Ron Murphy says:

    Psa 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.
    Psa 34:9 O fear the LORD, ye his saints: for there is no want to them that fear him.

  54. So far, I can only say the Bible is a history book about a certain area and time. When you don’t have a written language, you have legends. What I like about Worlds in Collisions, Velikovsky takes the legends, written stories and the bible and peaces them all together. They all fit like a glove. Manna, or ambrosia that came down from the heavens to feed the Israelis in the desert came down all over the earth. For most of my life i was taught that it just came down to the Israeli’s in the desert.

    • Mark says:

      Yes Herman, the bible is a history book, but also a prophecy book. The latter much misunderstood :-(

      P.S. Bible prophecies span the ages, even unto our times and beyond. Think of them as mysterious windows into the; past, present, and future. ;-)

  55. Couldn’t it be, with out blinders on one could see which path he has taken. An be able to see and follow the right path.

  56. Ron Murphy says:

    Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
    Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
    Pro 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

  57. Suez, I believe I found the copy cat. Arigo surgeon of the rusty knife. Was published in 1975, author was John Grant Fuller. A while later, Readers Digest did a story about him. I watched some fake magicians do what looked like reaching into a human body an remove some object, like a piece of flesh or something. I know a woman who was suppose to have surgery to remove some ulcers. Her husband was to make a trip to the Philippines, so she cancelled her surgery. To make a long story short, a witch doctor reached into her stomach and took some thing out. After wards she felt fine. When she got back home she called her doctor to tell him that she didn’t need the surgery, because she felt fine. He asked her to come into his office and he would take some X-rays and prove to her that she still needed the surgery. The x-rays proved that she was cured.

    • suez says:

      Well this was no copy cat that I gave you. It was the real deal!! But it is all the same thing, really. It’s demonic spirits. They may be in different people or different boxes with a different bow, but the inside is the same thing. You would benefit reading that book. And I know you would find it fascinating!! For no more than the cost of it, you would be happy you got it, I guarantee it!! :) The Bible says there is nothing new under the sun. This kind of stuff has been going on for 1,000′s of years. The witch doctors and the shamans have done stuff like this for centuries! Like I said, different bow, but the same thing in the box!!

  58. So what you are saying, most if not all the good (except what Jesus did) that is done in Gods name, is done by Demonic spirits. Maybe Satan has convinced you that God can not be working through witch doctors and shamans, and Man to help cure some of the suffering in this World? We only use a tiny portion of our brain. Have you ever wondered what you could do if you could use the full power of your brain? For example if you lost a limb, or an eye, you could grow a new one. You would never be sick and if you were you could heal your self. the possibilities are endless.

  59. wtf says:

    You all are freaking crazy. Hilarious.

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