What The Bible Has To Say About Homosexuality And The LGBT Lifestyle

Homosexuality appears exactly 6 chapters after the fall of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, but it does not happen in the time in which God says that things were perfect and right. Homosexuality shows up after sin had entered into the world, and the world itself had been cursed. Christianity cannot be reconciled with homosexuality anymore than it can be with drunkenness, murder, fornication or gossip. You cannot have both as they are opposed to each other. You must choose.

All love is not love, not by a long shot

“And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; “ Genesis 19:1 (KJV)

We live in a day and age where God’s opinion no longer matters, and where man’s opinion and human relativism is the standard of the day. Sin is no longer sin, it’s a “disease”, and rehab has replaced true biblical repentance.

Gay rights and gay marriage have become the clarion issue of our day, and what gets decided on and what laws get passed will well determine our future as a nation. Every dispensation of man in the bible ends in failure. The awesome promise of a perfect creation mentioned in Genesis 1 ends with Joseph dead and buried in a coffin in Egypt. Both the Greek and Roman empires came to an abrupt end when they began to promote a national ordinance of homosexuality.

The Law Of First Mention In The Bible

“The law of first mention may be said to be the principle that requires one to go to that portion of the Scriptures where a doctrine is mentioned for the first time and to study the first occurrence of the same in order to get the fundamental inherent meaning of that doctrine. When we thus see the first appearance, which is usually in the simplest form, we can then examine the doctrine in other portions of the Word that were given later. We shall see that the fundamental concept in the first occurrence remains dominant as a rule, and colors all later additions to that doctrine. In view of this fact, it becomes imperative that we understand the law of first mention.” source – Biblical Research


LGBT Bible revisionists like Matthew Vines are working overtime trying desperately to convince you that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for any other reason but for the sin of homosexuality. Don’t you believe a word of it.

The law of first mention in the bible is important because it usually sets the tone for every other place in the bible where that doctrine will appear. The very first place that the mention of homosexuality shows up is in Genesis 9, where we see the misdeeds of Ham towards his father.

“And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness. And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.” Genesis 9:20-24 (KJV)

It is obvious from the passage that Ham’s sin was more than simply seeing his father naked. If all Ham had done was looked, then Noah would have had no idea that had happened in his drunken state. Are you aware of your wife “looking at you” while you sleep? No, you are not. But Noah awoke from his wine, and the memories came flooding back that his son, Ham, had taken advantage of him and engaged in sexual intercourse with him while he was passed out.

Because of what Ham did, he and his generations to come were cursed. So we see that the very first time homosexuality is mentioned in any context in the bible it is connected with a curse.

The Sin Of Sodom And Gomorrah

A few chapters later in Genesis, we read about the sins of a place known as Sodom and Gomorrah. The bible says that the people in those cities had commited grevious sin, and God called them all wicked:

“And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.” Genesis 18:20,21 (KJV)

Now, before we comment on Sodom and Gomorrah, please note the following:

The word “sodomy”, which is connected with a sexual act of anal intercourse between two men, comes from the biblical account of the city of Sodom being destroyed by God because of homosexual behaviour. The word “sodomite” is a slang term for a gay men who engages in homosexual acts with other men. The reason why Sodom is remembered this way is because the Biblical account tells us that the sin of Sodom was homosexuality; not pride, greed or inhospitality as some have so ridiculously suggested.


In Genesis 19, we see that two angels have come to pull Lot and his family out of Sodom. They lodge with Lot in his home for the evening, and as soon as this is noised abroad, there comes a crowd of men to Lot’s house, demanding that the two angels be handed over to them for sexual purposes. They mean to rape the angels.

“And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.” Genesis 19:5-7 (KJV)

This second mention of homosexuality in the bible, like the first mention, ends badly. We all know the story…the angels tell Lot that he must take his family and flee because God is planning on destroying both Sodom and Gomorrah for their wickedness.

“For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.” Genesis 19:13 (KJV)

Homosexuality In The New Testament

People very passionately debate over the two passages we have mentioned from Genesis, saying that neither passage is a direct indictment against homosexuality, only against violent behaviour. So, let’s go to the New Testament to see how God is dealing with the topic there.

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.” Romans 1:26,27 (KJV)

Here we see in Romans the acts of both male and female homosexuality mentioned. The Holy Spirit, writing though the Apostle Paul, minces no words about the topic. God here labels homosexual activity with the term ‘vile affections’ and says that the practice is ‘against nature’ and unnatural.

No where in the entire bible is homosexual activity ever mentioned in a good or positive way. Not even once. It is always connected with a curse, sin, judgment or destruction. The bible offers no stories of happy homosexual unions or gay “marriages”. In point of fact, gay marriage doesn’t even exist. Like the rainbow, it’s just another thing stolen from the Bible and appropriated for their own ends. Marriage in the bible, which was ordained by God, is always between a man and a woman. All love is not love.

So you have a choice.

You can agree with what God has written in the bible, or you can rebel against it and claim any one of a number of reasons why what is in the bible doesn’t apply to you. But understand one thing. Whether or not homosexuality is a choice is besides the point. God says that it is a sin that needs to be repented of. The bible does not say that people were created as homosexual anymore than it says that people were created to do any other sin of any kind. The “I was born this way” argument receives no support in the pages of scripture.

God created a man and woman, and He gave them the gift of sexuality. Homosexuality appears exactly 6 chapters after the fall of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, but it does not happen in the time in which God says that things were perfect and right. Homosexuality shows up after sin had entered into the world, and the world itself had been cursed.

Christianity cannot be reconciled with homosexuality anymore than it can be with drunkenness, murder, fornication or gossip. You cannot have both as they are opposed to each other.

You must choose.


NTEB is run by end times author and editor-in-chief Geoffrey Grider. Geoffrey runs a successful web design company, and is a full-time minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. In addition to running NOW THE END BEGINS, he has a dynamic street preaching outreach and tract ministry team in Saint Augustine, FL.

  • Amen Brother in Christ Jesus Geoffrey 😀

    Our True GOD who art in HEAVEN DOES not Condone homosexuality and Abortion PERIOD!!

    Our True GOD CREATED ADAM and EVE for each other!!

    The video above is disgusting and Anti-Christian AGENDA!!


    Am Yisrael Chai FOREVERMORE!! Happy Shavua Tov Everyone!!

    Love Always and Shalom,


    • Elliott

      I don’t believe Ham had sex with his dad. I think that part is complete crap mate

      • okay28

        I agree. I think the author is speculating and reading into what occurred. Looking at a naked person of the same sex is not homosexuality, lol. If that’s the case, then my doctor is guilty. Gawking at his fathers naked form is what he did that was wrong. It is related to respect or a lack thereof. The passage says absolutely NOTHING about the son being sexually attracted to his father’s nakedness, nor did it mention that he received sexual gratification from it. What occurred was a disrespectful son gawking at his drunk father’s nakedness, and instead of respecting him by covering him up, he shamed him further by bringing other’s to gawk at his nakedness. Forcing homosexuality in this situation is definitely reaching, and the author is merely assuming without evidence to back it up. If he saw his mother naked and did the same thing, it would be equally sinful.

      • Elliott. The bible NEVER said that Ham had sex with his dad! You failed to understand what; “uncovered your fathers nakedness, means” It meas to sleep with his wife”! That means Ham sleep with his mother! Go back and read the section again and, ask God for understanding if you don’t get the meaning. Any form of a homosexual ack is an abomonation in the eyes of God. Leviticus 18: 20, Leviticus 20: 13. And in Romans 1: 20-32. Go in peace and good-will

    • Sam Fox

      It’s very odd, to say the least, that the Supreme Court found in the favor of the homosexuals, inventing & giving them a ‘right’ to ‘marry’.

      It’s odd because of the dim view the US Founders took on homosexuality. Worth looking up it is.

      These perverted people need our prayers but not our compromise. Nor are we allowed the judgment of condemnation, though we can condemn the ‘lifestyle’.

      This is no doubt a vile & very sick ‘lifestyle’. Also note that when homosexual sin is mentioned in the NT it’s in a list of other sins, some sexual.


    • manuel govea

      the world is lost in her sin. it does not matter what the word of God says anymore. the lord will come sooner then we think every day imorality seems to be getting worse,and Jesus is comming like a thif in the night very soon.

  • Kerri

    Someone else wrote… ‘All of these sin merit death in the OT.
    Having homosexual intercourse between men (Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13)
    Commiting adultery between a man and a woman (Leviticus 20:10-12)
    Lying about virginity(Deuteronomy 22:20-21)[3]
    Being the daughter of a priest and practicing prostitution(Leviticus 21:9)[4]
    Raping an engaged female virgin (Deuteronomy 22:25)[5]
    If an engaged female virgin, being raped in a city (Deuteronomy 22:23-27)[6]
    Being male and practicing bestiality (Leviticus 20:15)[7]
    Being female and practicing bestiality (Leviticus 20:16)[7]
    Having sex with your father’s wife (Leviticus 20:20)[8]
    Having sex with your daughter-in-law (Leviticus 20:30)
    Having incestual sex (Leviticus 20:17)
    Marrying a woman and her daughter(Leviticus 20:14)[9]
    Having sex with a woman who is menstruating (Leviticus 20:18)’

    With that being said…we all have a choice. We can follow the law or accept God’s free gift of salvation of grace through faith in Jesus Christ that is available to everyone!!! This link is a great message of what the true gospel is and what our Lord Jesus Christ did for us on the cross. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UYWJNU_TUA God bless…

  • Lebeth

    Yes God is clear that homosexuality is an abomination but Hamm didn’t commit a homosexual act read Leviticus 20:11 for clarification of what his sin was.
    Even so come Lord Jesus,

    • Elliott

      Exactly. Whoever wrote this just made that part up

    • Richard Mann

      If Ham had done his mother, I think the Bible would have been more specific. As it reads, Ham had sex with Noah. Noah was fully aware of what happened. Don’t try to read in what is not there. Leviticus 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father’s wife hath uncovered his father’s nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

      No mention of his mother, Noah’s wife in the account.

      • Richard Mann

        After checking a few more items, it really is hard to say what Ham did. Noah knowing that “something” had happened while he was asleep, points to something physical was done to Noah by Ham. The Bible term “uncover his/her nakedness” has to be looked into. Digging around for that now.

      • Richard Mann

        Well, if you Google the phrase “uncover his nakedness” you find several different lines of thought about this. Guess it is one of those “fuzzy” areas that may make more sense if you understand what life was life at that time. Since the Law had not been given at the time, it had to been something to do with the society from which Noah and his family had just come from. Interesting study though.

      • Richard, YOU are reading into it what’s not there! All the other two sons had to do was walk backwards and throw a cover on him to not see their father’s nakedness. It was not a sexual encounter! Wow.

      • Richard: You are totally wrong. It does not read that Ham had sex with Noah. To uncovered his father’t nakedness IS to sleep with with his wife, ‘Ham’s mother’! You should ask God for an understanding of his words before forming your own decision on what is written. Go back and read the word again and ask God for an understanding. Go in peace and good-will

  • It is not really necessary to show the graphic pictures to get your point across I was offended by the pictur of the game pride event just give us the scriptures please.

    • Wendy

      I wasn’t “offended” per se…I did find them disturbing, tho’.
      I agree: please don’t include their raunchiness for me to have to deal with, Geoffrey.

      Thanks much, Brother~

    • fred


    • Sam Fox

      Donald, you should not have looked. There is a warning.

      It is important that this vile stuff be exposed. Fringe stream media covers for this stuff. If you did a search for past ‘gay’ ‘pride’ ‘parades’ you’d really be shocked.



  • Jim

    Amen.Amen. Heaven and Earth shall pass away. But my word shall endure forever. A day with the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day. Sodom and Gomorrah just happened in Gods eyes. These progressive’s are not listening to our Lord. Guess who they are listening to. The perverter of all Truth. Satan and his demons.

    • Shootit

      I am still waiting to hear God apologize for Sodom and Gomorrah and commend the 5 black robes for finally settling the issue of right and wrong.

      • Jim

        Dont hold your breath. Gods judgements are true and righteous

  • The bible is very clear about the whole LGBT movement being a sin. You cannot be a Christian and practice same sex whatever. There is no such thing as transgender. God made man and woman. You are kidding yourself when you declare yourself to be a gender you are not. God does nor make mistakes. Gender is decided at conception. The liberal, politically correct population is in for a rude awakening when Jesus comes for those that love Him.

    • Suez

      @Sandy Sandy, I must ask you this. What about those people who are born with both male and female sex organs? That does happen. I’m asking, as I am wondering how that comes to play myself. My heart goes out to them, I can’t imagine the horror of living with that condition. I do feel very sad for them…Just saying. No, God doesn’t make any mistakes, but what about that, what about birth defects in animals and people. I’m sure that man has a lot to do with it, poisoning us with all the chemicals and crap on every level. That too is a topic of discussion…:(

  • Paul

    The truth will set you free! What REALLY gets me going is the cheering and clapping of the crowd lining the street. Why do heterosexual people feel the need to ENCOURAGE these sickos? And why are there innocent children made to march? Women are their greatest supporters / enablers. Millstone anyone?

  • Amen brother,Amen. The truth is so refreshing.
    God bless you all abundantly.

  • To everyone in LGBT and everyone who supports it, you get a golden bowl! Revelation 15:5-7

  • Dr Bob Chapman

    Hi Geoffrey,

    It is interesting to note that the real sins of Sodom which preceded their sexual perversion and eventually brought about their destruction are the same that pervade the western culture and much of the modern church today. Here is what Ezekiel said:

    Eze 16:48 “As I live,” says the Lord GOD, “neither your sister Sodom nor her daughters have done as you and your daughters have done.
    Eze 16:49 Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
    Eze 16:50 And they were haughty and committed abomination before Me; therefore I took them away as I saw fit.


    mmmm: sounds familiar.


    • Pride and Homosexuality go hand in hand. Job says that Satan is the “king over the children of pride”, and it’s the LGBT PRIDE movement….case closed. God did not destroy two whole cities for “gluttony and neglect of others”, He wiped them out for rampant homosexual perversion.

      • Dr Bob Chapman

        Hi Geoffrey,

        Ezekiel was saying to Israel they were worse than Sodom because they had not learned from history. He was pointing out to them that all he mentioned, including pride etc, was present in Israel at his time and that such activities mentioned by him were actions that led to sexual perversion. This is exactly what has happened in the USA since WWII.


        • Pride is worse than sexual perversion, either one will leave you forever screaming and burning in the lake of fire. Either one needs to be repented from, along with every other sin that you haven’t repented from and laid at the feet of a merciful Savior who died to set you free and who sits at the right hand of the Father, ever living to make intercession for you. Glory to God forevermore! Hallelujah!

        • Don

          I heard Chuck Missler speak out about this and he believed that God did not destroy Sodom because of the sin of homosexuality but more so that the city/people accepted the behavior and did not speak out about it. Interesting view….

          • Dr Bob Chapman

            Hi Don,

            Depravity seems to always creep in through all the stages Ezekiel mentions and eventually the message of the watchmen gets dampened and the listeners fail to stand for anything and fall for everything.

            Ezekiel was charged by God to sound the alarm and if he didn’t the blood of those who he was charged to warn would be on his head, Ezekiel 3. He spoke up as led by God and without qualification or softening of the message.

            I noticed in Brian Houston’s response that he spoke of welcoming sinners, including gays, but he said nothing about bringing them to repentance and conversion as the primary objective of their ministry. All sinners must be converted and fully embrace the godly lifestyle depicted in the Bible. Liars must stop lying, thieves must stop thieving, the envious must stop envying, etc etc. No body is excluded from a changed lifestyle if they become disciples of Christ.

            Such teaching offends people, but that is the nature of the gospel. It offends! Jesus preached the good news that offends, John 6:61. He was so in love with mankind that He told them the truth and offended them in order to snatch them from the fire He knew they were destined for. Luke 13:3&5, “I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

            Preaching is about the love of God for all of us because we all have sinned and need the Savior. If preaching the good news about God loving all who receive His word, believe it, repent of their sins, bury those sins away in immersion and are CONVERTED to walk in the narrow way that leads to life, then so be it. No one is excluded from the need for such salvation and change; including practicing gays. God indeed loves us all; but on His terms, not ours!


          • I would take anything C. Missler says, with a grain of salt sir. ..just saying..He does a lot of false teachings. 🙁

      • Exactly.

    • Ron

      Your comments which are backed up with VERY CLEAR SCRIPTURE are in complete disagreement with this article which states WITHOUT ANY BIBLICAL BACKING that: “The reason why Sodom is remembered this way is because the Biblical account tells us that the sin of Sodom was homosexuality; not pride, greed or inhospitality as some have so ridiculously suggested.” (I guess that makes Ezekiel ridiculous).

      It was standard practice to rape outsiders in order that they stayed away from their city where the people were well off.

      I guess that’s why the writer of this article had to put up disgusting photos of immoral perverts to try to mislead people into thinking that all gays are that way. The author is like the pharisees and will be judged one day for leading away so many people from Christianity with biblical misinterpretation. And no I am not gay.

      • YOU are the one with Biblical misinterpretation if you add to the word with ‘standard practice’ about anything! It says what it says! The men of Sodom were homosexuals – all of them! Why? Because a little leaven leavenith the whole lump and so homosexuality spreads like a cancer. Why do you think they were there at the door to rape the angels they thought were men?! Why do you think Lot’s married daughters had no children?! Why do you think the LGBT movement is called ‘gay pride’?! Pride always seeks to vaunt itself above God and man, who was made in His image!

        • ron

          The men of Sodom where not primarily homosexual, although there were some who abused young boys according to historians. Why would Lot offer his daughters to them and not his son in laws if they were gay? Because Lot knew that they were sexually aroused by woman and only wanted to rape the angels as a form of intimidation.
          As far as pride is concerned it’s a problem for all humans not just gays. We need to spend more time examining our own lives and less time judging others.

      • Susan Johnson

        “had to put up disgusting photos (video) of immoral perverts
        to try to mislead people into thinking that all gays are that

        What way? Flamboyant? Disrobed in public? Engaging in “dirty

        All Homosexuals engage in immoral behavior….wickedness…vile
        perversion…whether they are displaying it in public at a Gay
        Pride Parade, or are engaging in Sodomy and oral sex with each
        other behind closed doors, in the privacy of their home.

        On stage or off, there really is no distinction.

        Male or female, public or private…if you are a practicing
        Homosexual, you are engaging in vile perversion and wickedness,
        and you will be Judged for it.

        HELL will be HOT.
        REPENT or PERISH.

  • Walter Mintz

    I had always thought that Ham’s sin was that he slept with his mother. Lev. 20:11 says,
    “And the man that lieth with his father’s wife hath uncovered his father’s nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
    Which was why scripture emphasized the fact that HAM was the father of Canaan instead of Noah. Either way, it was more than Ham just seeing his father naked. Could this be the case?

  • Larry / vietnamvet1971

    what the Sodomites call love is actually Immoral Sinful Sexual LUST and if they continue living / practicing this Abomination against GOD there is nothing more but to look fearfully for the Judgement of GOD on them.

    Genesis 13 : 13 Now the men of Sodom were wicked exceedingly and sinners against the LORD. This verse sort of sticks out to explain how GOD fells about them.

  • Joey

    I have refused to use the word Gay! Let’s call it for what it is Homosexuality! The Homosexuals have hijacked Gods Rainbow, his very covenant with man, as well as the word Gay. So I will not mince the words, call it for what it is Homosexuality!

    • Larry / vietnamvet1971

      Exactly, do not sugar coat SIN, Evilness, Wickedness for that is a slap in GODS face, SODOMITES, HOMOSEXUALS they have never been Normal and will never be NORMAL, according to Genesis 13 : 13 they are Wicked Exceedingly & Sinful. Should we feel different or call them some thing from GOD?.

  • I guess there is an exception to every rule. Guess I was thinking about Bruce Jenner. As for birth defects my heart bleeds for them and only God knows what happened. Homosexuality is close to my heart too. I do believe they are born with the desire. I ask how to you reconcile homosexuality and a love for God? I don’t know the answer. I do know we are asked to love all God’s children.

    • Shootit

      You choose every time. You chose your partner. It is always a choice.

    • Larry / vietnamvet1971

      who are GODS children?

      How do we get to be GODS children?

      IF people have GODS Holy Spirit BUT still practice Homosexuality do they really have the HS would that not grieve the HS and we are not to grieve the HS by continuing to war fight against the convicting Power of the Holy Spirit.

      Maybe ALL are not the children of GOD for Satan has his Children also on this earth.

      I do love my brothers & sisters in Christ for what has Righteousness have in common with Unrighteousness? can you mix it together?

      The answer to your question how to reconcile the Sodomites to GOD is simple really. REPENT / Turn from that Wicked, Sinful Luststyle.

      • carson

        yeah john 8:42-44, rev 13:8 (names in the book), rev 20:15, john 10:10, came that they might have life (they do not have life unless they receive Christ) epehsians 2, dead in sins, galations 3:22, all are under sin that the promise of Jesus Christ might be given=to those that believe, john 3:16, but 2 short verse later 3:18, unbelief=condemnation..there are many more, in adam all die in Christ they shall live, the verses on God adopting those who receive Christ-He wouldn’t need to adopt any if they were already His, verse on born again and why, His name Redeemer/Saviour etc, if all were automatically God’s children, the ‘we’re all children of God’ lie, why would any needs be saved/redeemed..their already God’s own?..no. Those who have Christ have life those who do not have Christ do not have life 1st john 5, the verse in 1st john about walking in darkness/practicing sin, romans 8 and on the flesh, and others on walking in the Spirit but one can’t walk in the Spirit unless they have the Spirit…and all is why a person MUST be born again, 1st peter 1, john 3, john 1:12-13.

        beware the jew haters will use john 8:44 only to say He was talking only to the jews, but john 8:42 shows that any who do not love Christ do not have God as their Father, and none of us did, until God shed His grace and through faith in Christ, we love Him because He first loved us, and while we were yet His enemies..and etc. ephesians 2 is a great chapter, 2nd timothy 2:24 through 3:5, titus 1:16. Yes all should repent and be born again receive power to become children of God, power to overcome the world the flesh and the devil the power/Spirit to then walk in and no longer walk by the flesh, most fail here as they don’t want to let go of self lordship, they may ‘ask Christ’ but they hold themselves back from ‘going to far’ and being one of those ‘born again bible believing..’..well you’ve heard what some say. It’s the flesh nature saying-no don’t, I want to live/reign and be one with the world..since even the flesh knows in Christ it’s crucified/mortified and is to no longer rule but Jesus Christ is Lord and calls any OUT from being one with the world (john 15:19, 1st john 2:15-17, james 4..), is why the world has all this ‘form of godliness’ going on, church folks/religionists who’ve denied the power. with some it’s a club or group thing, popular and trendy but is also why they say their christians yet call what God say’s is evil-good.

        the sinner in luke 18, couldn’t even look upwards to heaven, broken and shame beat on his chest and called out with all he had..didn’t hold back. a broken and contrite spirit God will not despise. Perhaps as the world waxes downhill and the ‘gods’ of the world are shaken and busted on the floor for some and some peoples hearts will be broken along side their false hopes/gods they too will be broken and wake up to Christ and the call of God, hope so.

    • Larry / vietnamvet1971

      The Bible is clear that while all people are God’s creation (Colossians 1:16), and that God loves the entire world (John 3:16), only those who are born again are children of God (John 1:12; 11:52; Romans 8:16; 1 John 3:1-10).

  • Shootit

    What was the tree of good and evil? Satan? Eat or partake of the tree of Good and Evil and Adam did likewise. There may be your first description of homosexuality. Cain was Abel’s twin half brother? Who was Cain’s father? Nephilim?

  • Julie Putzier

    “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me”‘
    (Psalms 51:5)

    Note: To believe and say that “I am born this way; therefore I will continue to do (whatever) the things I do”, will not hold up at the day of judgement.

    The truth of the matter is that we all are born in the same “way” in that all are born with the natural and uncontrollable desires to satisfy the flesh in an unlimited number of ways.

    But God did not create any one to sin in any fashion. Every sin we do, and every “life choice” we make is a matter of “…the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16)

    “Let no man say when he is tempted that he is tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

    But every man is tempted, when he drawn away of his own lusts, and enticed.

    Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death”

    (James 1;13-15)

    We are all born sinners; How you manifest your sin nature is your “choice”.

    The list of choices is extensive, (And you may choose as many as you desire)

    See: Galatians 5:19-21/Romans 1:28-32/Ephesians 4:19 ..and other.

    You will be judged! Repent and trust Jesus Christ.


    • Larry / vietnamvet1971

      AMEN Julie, ALL these EXCUSES for not obeying the WORD and all their Opinions does not matter, the FINAL WORD / OPINION is what GOD says about Homosexuals and their REJECTION / REFUSAL to REPENT.

  • mike watchinski

    Julie did not write the previous comment.

  • Collin

    Hi Geoffrey,

    I couldn’t agree more on Homosexuality or sexual perversions being the main reason Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed.

    Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
    Jude 1:7 (KJV)

    However, your assumption on Ham having intercourse with Noah is exactly that, an assumption. And this is not backed by Scripture at all. I don’t get how you assume this. I think it’s safer to assume, Noah knew what happened because His other sons told Him. Some more common english translations say, “when Noah found out what happened, or when He learned what happened”. Please explain your reasoning.

    • ron

      Jude 1:7 DOES condemn sexual immorality in general but DOES NOT single out homosexuality. “and going after strange flesh” refers to either the angels or outsiders in general and not homosexuals because the Greek translation of “strange” is HETRO, and not HOMO. Your preachers have mislead you. Study the bible for yourself and stop following the crowd and relying on other peoples misinterpretations.

      • Collin

        Hi Ron,

        You said,
        “and going after strange flesh” refers to either the angels or outsiders in general and not homosexuals because the Greek translation of “strange” is HETRO, and not HOMO.

        This is false. The Greek word for strange is “atopos”. Definition is (lit: out of place, unusual, unbecoming), improper, unrighteous, perverse. If this doesn’t explain it clearly I don’t know what will. Improper, unrighteous and perverse seems to fit the bill for explaining Homosexuality.

        You said,
        Your preachers have mislead you. Study the bible for yourself and stop following the crowd and relying on other peoples misinterpretations.

        What crowds are you referring to? This passage clearly condemns the act of going after flesh that is “out of place” as the definition states. Your information is false, as well as your “high and mighty” attitude towards anyone who disagrees with the Great Ron! What a joke! You have been mislead. Praying for you bro!

        • ron

          Hi Bro,

          Well I just went on a website that you may be familiar with; biblehub.com. If you go to Jude 1:7 the translation for strange flesh is “sarkos heteras”. So this is why the passage is probably not a reference to sarkos homos as you interpret. All of your definitions by the way also “fit the bill” for going after the angels or strangers in general. If you want to throw in homosexuals as well go ahead, but it is not likely indicated in this passage. I am just trying to get this right for the sake of those that have to deal with this.

          • Collin

            Hi Ron,

            You said,
            Well I just went on a website that you may be familiar with; biblehub.com. If you go to Jude 1:7 the translation for strange flesh is “sarkos heteras”

            Here is a copy/paste paragraph from the same site you just quoted, Biblehub. Taken from a section called pulpit commentary.

            And going after strange flesh; or “other flesh”; meaning not other women besides their own wives, but men; and designs that detestable and unnatural sin, which, from these people, is called sodomy to this day; and which is an exceeding great sin, contrary to the light of nature and law of God.

  • Marc

    According to Lev. 18:2 Homosexuality is an ABOMINATION:

    “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” (Lev 18:22)

    Now, with that increasing LGBT “PRIDE”, has come the time when we can see that abomination being forced into the church. The church is more and more forced to accept homosexual marriages.

    We are now seeing coming the time when the “abomination” (homosexuality) “stand in the holy place” (the church)…
    (whoso readeth, let him understand:)…

    Now has come the time that we leave our wordly “house” and dirty “clothes” to “flee into the mountains” of salvation, to avoid being left in a “great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be”…

  • Shane

    The problem with this whole gay rights / gay marriage thing is that people think that love and romance are synonymous and they are not. There is absolutely nothing wrong with men who truly love other men. We’re supposed to do this. After all I can love my father, my sons, and my fellow man. What I will never do however is to engage in romance with another man. If homosexuals truly loved one another, they would stop the sexual acts and actually care for one another. Instead men who practice homosexuality are simply abusing one another to fulfill their own selfish sexual gratifications. After the supreme court ruling, I saw a sign on someone’s lawn that states “Love is the law”. He’s wrong. Romance is now the law of the land.

    This whole denigration of the moral fiber of America is the result of people thinking that there will be no repercussions for their actions. The preaching on the doctrine of hell is largely absent in today’s churches. This really needs to change and soon. It seems that the whole concept of hell has been relegated to Hollywood horror films. I would suspect however that just as scripture states: “But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him (1 Cor 2:9 KJV)”, it has also not entered into the heart of man what God has prepared for those who don’t. People really don’t have a clue, and Hollywood film makers can’t even begin to scratch the surface of the real terror that unrepentant sinners will face.

    • Tusitala

      I never thought of the antithesis of what has been prepared for those who love God… it is a completely logical progression, but I simply never considered that there has been an equally fitting reward for those who do not love Him. Quite a thought…dear Jesus, help us to endure…

    • Wendy

      I agree with you wholeheartedly, Shane!
      Except I think the law of the Land is more
      “Sex for Self!”

  • Romans 1:28. When’s the last time you heard of a homosexual surrendering his or her life to Yeshua during a gay pride parade? You haven’t and you never will either. What kind of reaction do you think you would receive from a homosexual if they knew you were praying for them? I don’t think they would consider sending you a bouquet of roses, do you? Can one change the spots on a leopard? Do you think prayer can prevent a homosexual from having lustful or filthy thoughts about your children or yourself? I doubt it.

    • Yes. A person can be delivered from a spirit of homosexuality. I personally know a man who didn’t even know he had a spirit of homosexuality that was imparted to him during an incident of sexual abuse from when he was a child. He said that during the deliverance he had a sudden disgusting, overpowering compulsion to ‘kiss a man’ when it came to the surface as it was on its way out.

  • 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

    30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

    31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

    32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

    33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

  • Yes. A person can be delivered from a spirit of homosexuality. I personally know a man who didn’t even know he had a spirit of homosexuality that was imparted to him during an incident of sexual abuse from when he was a child. He said that during the deliverance he had a sudden disgusting, overpowering compulsion to ‘kiss a man’ when it came to the surface as it was on its way out.

  • YOU are reading into it what’s not there! All the other two sons had to do was walk backwards and throw a cover on him to not see their father’s nakedness. It was not a sexual encounter! Wow.

  • S.

    The gay rights movement is only being used by the government. They may think its great now, but they will be used and discarded like a old shoe, and they won’t even see it coming.

  • Everyone, please forgive me, I’m not replying to the right comments! The emails are confusing as to where a comment originated.

  • I was taught that the bloodlines were not tainted when man was created so there was no issue with incest. It is the only plausible truth if you believe in strict creationism.

    • Sandy, I can get you in deeper than that: there were other people here! God made men and women on the sixth day! Adam wasn’t made until AFTER the seventh day, AFTER God rested on the sabbath, because there was no one to ’till the ground’. Adam was a farmer! God breathed the breath of life into him; He took a rib from him to make Eve. How about that for ‘strict creationism’?!
      Furthermore incest and homosexuality are not the same thing.

      • Suez

        @Patricia Marie Mitchell Ah, someone of my own mind and spirit!! Preach on girl!!! 🙂 Patricia, have you ever happened onto this teaching. I just found it. It answered some questions I had been close to answering, but just needed a little more. Of coarse he is just a man, and I may not agree with it all, but all in all, very interesting to say the least!! 🙂 STUDIES IN GENESIS – ISRAEL ELECT
        israelect.com/…/ConradGaard/Studies in Genesis.htm

        STUDIES IN GENESIS. Conrad Gaard. Was Adam The First Man. … A careful study of the use of the term shows us that it is often used to designate beings of a very high … God bless you dear sister!!! I am so happy you posted this. We are few and far between, are we not???

        • Thank you, Suez. It is not always easy to find people who take the word of God for what it actually says. I saw it one day and realized that God made men and women before the seventh day in which He rested and He made Adam after the seventh day. People tend to like to think that chapter 1 Genesis and chapter 2 are talking about the same thing but that can’t be true because the two events are separated by the day in which God rested from all His work. 🙂

          • Suez

            @Patricia Marie Mitchell So very true! I think we would have much to fellowship about!!! LOL

      • Collin

        Hi Patricia Marie Mitchell,

        You said,
        God made men and women on the sixth day! Adam wasn’t made until AFTER the seventh day, AFTER God rested on the sabbath, because there was no one to ’till the ground’.

        The concept of a pre-Adamic race is the idea that God created a race of humans who lived on the Earth before He created Adam, the first man. This hypothesis has been promoted by various scholars at various times throughout history. Roman Emperor Julian the Apostate (circa A.D. 331–363) and Calvinist theologian Isaac de La Peyrère (1596-1676) are two notable examples.

        Let’s look at two popular facets of the Preadamite Hypothesis: the hypothesis as it was proposed by Isaac de La Peyrère and the form which it takes in the “Gap Theory” (also known as the Ruin-Reconstruction interpretation). According to La Peyrère, God created the Gentiles on the sixth day when He said, “Let us make man in our image” (Genesis 1:26). He did not create the Jews until after the seventh day, His day of rest. At some point after the seventh day, God created Adam, the father of the Jews.

        First, Adam is called the “first man” (1 Corinthians 15:45). This is inconsistent with the idea that God created men before Adam. Second, according to La Peyrère, the Gentiles were to live outside of the Garden of Eden while Adam enjoyed paradise (a privilege which came with the responsibility of obeying the Law of Paradise—not eating the forbidden fruit). Genesis 2:5-8, however, says quite plainly that before God created “the man whom He had formed,” the very same man which He placed in the garden, there were no men upon the earth to cultivate the ground. Third, God created Eve for Adam because he was alone, there was no one else like him around (“It is not good for the man to be alone… but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him” Genesis 2:18, 20). Fourth, Adam named his wife “Eve” “because she was the mother of all the living” (Genesis 3:20). The list goes on, but these passages should suffice to refute your misinterpretation.

        • Thank you, Collin. I don’t believe in the gap theory or that there was another civilization here before ‘In the beginning’. I have no desire to argue the point. I would like to only point out that after God rested on the seventh day he saw that there was no man to ’till the ground’; that doesn’t mean there were no other men and women on earth because he created them on the 6th day! Adam was created after the seventh day; he was a farmer – the first farmer! He is the first man to us. God breathed the breath of life into him and he became a living soul! And yes, none of these women were suitable for him. After he was evicted from the garden some of them might have lived up to his son’s standards, I don’t know, but some of his descendants survived the flood: not just the Jews, they are descended from Jacob who God named Israel; and if you notice, Israel also accepted strange women on occasion, which would fit the picture of Adam’s sons acceptance of strange women from the earth.
          Where the first Adam failed in the garden to obey, Jesus the second Adam, overcame, in the garden, as he said, “Not my will, but Thine be done.”
          He became my Savior and the lifter up of my head, and that is the only point I will argue. Glory be to God forevermore! 🙂

        • Suez

          @Collin You said, In theory,,”He did not create the Jews until after the seventh day, His day of rest. At some point after the seventh day, God created Adam, the father of the Jews.” With all due respect Collin, to my knowledge, which can be wrong, the Jews didn’t come along until the son of Jacob, called Judah, or from the town of Judaha. To my limited knowledge, the tribe of Judah, were the Jews. Until then they were called just Israelite’s, or earlier Hebrews. Abraham wasn’t called a Jew to my knowledge but a Hebrew. I may stand corrected in this, as I am but a mere human and can be wrong. Meaning of Jew according to the Strong’s Concordance: yehûdı̂y
          Patronymic from H3063; a Jehudite (that is, Judaite or Jew), or descendant of Jehudah (that is, Judah): – Jew.
          Total KJV occurrences: 75

          • Collin

            Hi Suez,

            I never stated that God didn’t create the Jews until the Seventh day. This is a theory called the “Preadimite Hypothesis” as proposed by Issac de La Peyrere. La Peyrere is the one who said this, please read my comment clearly. Adam was the first man. There was no other humans before Adam and Eve. You do not have to try and convince me of your point. I was trying to show Patricia why this theory is false and doesn’t hold up Biblically.

          • Suez

            Collin. Sorry, but I did say you said “in theory” 🙂

  • While I know that God does not condone homosexuality, that remark about homosexuals having lustful thoughts about you or your children is ridiculous. Homosexuals are not pedophiles and they only feel attraction as a chemical reaction like we do. They are not crazy people running around trying to screw any and all people. That is why they are so offended by Christians. Crazy beliefs like that.

    • Larry / vietnamvet1971

      You are the one talking about Lustful thoughts Do YOU know their thoughts aren’t you ASSUMING a LOT of What they are thinking.

      Also does 2 wrongs make a Right?

      You sure seem to know a LOT about homosexuals and how they are Offended, since you are talking about being offended I am Offended by their shoving their Perversion on Christians (Marriage) when any little baby Christian knows and can read in between your lines and see where you are.

      You said a lot BUT still you said NOTHING.

    • Sandy, so what’s to stop the homosexual from feeling a ‘chemical reaction’ to a child since they have thrown off all restraints? Wasn’t it someone in California lobbying for rights for men to have sexual relations with children who are agreeable to it – like a child knows any better!
      Why are the nations in an uproar and the peoples devising a vain thing? The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
      “Let us tear their fetters apart and cast away their cords from us!” Psalm 2:1-3
      And what will the Lord do? He will laugh!
      He who sits in the heavens laughs, the Lord scoffs at them.
      Then He will speak to them in His anger and terrify them in His fury, saying, “But as for Me, I have installed My King upon Zion, My holy mountain.” Psalm 2:4-6

    • Sylvia

      Is that why: 28% of homosexual men had more than 1000 partners: “Bell and Weinberg reported evidence of widespread sexual compulsion among homosexual men. 83% of the homosexual men surveyed estimated they had had sex with 50 or more partners in their lifetime, 43% estimated they had sex with 500 or more partners; 28% with 1,000 or more partners. Bell and Weinberg p 308.” (exodusglobalalliance.org/ishomosexualityhealthyp60.php)
      79% of homosexual men say over half of sex partners are strangers: “The survey showed 79% of the respondents saying that over half of their sexual partners were strangers. Seventy percent said that over half of their sexual partners were people with whom they had sex only once. Bell and Weinberg pp.308-309.” (exodusglobalalliance.org/ishomosexualityhealthyp60.php)
      Modal range for homosexual sex partners 101-500: “In their study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in Journal of Sex Research, Paul Van de Ven et al. found that “the modal range for number of sexual partners ever [of homosexuals] was 101–500.” In addition, 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent had between 501 and 1000 partners. A further 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent reported having had more than 1000 lifetime sexual partners. Paul Van de Ven et al., “A Comparative Demographic and Sexual Profile of Older Homosexually Active Men,” Journal of Sex Research 34 (1997): 354.” (exodusglobalalliance.org/ishomosexualityhealthyp60.php)
      1978 study, 78% of gay men had more than 100 partners, 28% more than 1000: “A far-ranging study of homosexual men published in 1978 revealed that 75 percent of self-identified, white, gay men admitted to having sex with more than 100 different males in their lifetime: 15 percent claimed 100-249 sex partners; 17 percent claimed 250-499; 15 percent claimed 500-999; and 28 percent claimed more than 1,000 lifetime male sex partners. By 1984, after the AIDS epidemic had taken hold, homosexual men were reportedly curtailing promiscuity, but not by much. Instead of more than 6 partners per month in 1982, the average non-monogamous respondent in San Francisco reported having about 4 partners per month in 1984.” (catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html)
      There is an extremely low rate of sexual fidelity among homosexual men as compared to married heterosexuals. Among married females 85% reported sexual fidelity. Among married men, 75.5% reported sexual fidelity. Among homosexual males in their current relationship, 4.5% reported sexual fidelity. (Sources:Laumann, The Social Organization of Sexuality, 216; McWhirter and Mattison, The Male Couple: How Relationships Develop (1984): 252-253; Wiederman, “Extramarital Sex,” 170. This is extracted from http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS04C02)

      • Sylvia

        And: Baldwin says his research not only “confirms that homosexuals molest children at a rate vastly higher than heterosexuals,” but it found that “the mainstream homosexual culture” even “commonly promotes sex with children.”

        “The editorial board of the leading pedophile academic journal, Paidika, is dominated by prominent homosexual scholars such as San Francisco State University professor John DeCecco, who happens to edit the Journal of Homosexuality,” Baldwin wrote.

        During his research, he also found:

        The Journal of Homosexuality recently published a special double-issue entitled, “Male Intergenerational Intimacy,” containing many articles portraying sex between men and minor boys as loving relationships. One article said parents should look upon the pedophile who loves their son “not as a rival or competitor, not as a theft of their property, but as a partner in the boy’s upbringing, someone to be welcomed into their home.”
        In 1995 the homosexual magazine “Guide” said, “We can be proud that the gay movement has been home to the few voices who have had the courage to say out loud that children are naturally sexual” and “deserve the right to sexual expression with whoever they choose. …” The article went on to say: “Instead of fearing being labeled pedophiles, we must proudly proclaim that sex is good, including children’s sexuality … we must do it for the children’s sake.”
        Larry Kramer, the founder of ACT-UP, a noted homosexual activist group, wrote in his book, “Report from the Holocaust: The Making of an AIDS Activist”: “In those instances where children do have sex with their homosexual elders, be they teachers or anyone else, I submit that often, very often, the child desires the activity, and perhaps even solicits it.”

        • Thank you Sylvia for sharing that report! Then they lobby for the legislation to consider it ‘hate speech’ so that there is no one to teach the children the difference between right and wrong! And that, dear friends, is how an entire city, or society can turn to sodomy and embrace it.
          You sodomites might be interested in what comes next; it’s really hot baby, oh yeah – fire and brimstone! Because if you think you can be gay and humble you are sadly mistaken! Pride, even gay pride, exalts itself against the knowledge of God. All sin exalts itself against the knowledge of God.
          It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 10:31

  • SRB

    I’ve searched and read the scriptures about Ham and Noah. The viewpoint that you present of Ham having sex with his father I see nowhere in the Bible. The scripture says what it says and is pretty simple. Back when they were around, family was very important…not like it is today at all. The only extra interpretation that I can see without blowing the whole scripture into something it doesn’t mean is that what Ham did was very DISRESPECTFUL to Noah. He should have just covered him up and kept his mouth shut about it. Then he goes to tell his brothers about it instead…so he left his dad naked and goes to blab to his brothers…which could mean that he MAY have made fun of his dad’s predicament to his brothers. I also see nowhere that Ham had sex with his mother either. That’s it…straight forward.

  • Larry, you are self-righteous and full of crap. Who appointed you judge and jury?

    • Larry / vietnamvet1971

      @ harold, thanks for the comment even if you think I am self righteous, judge & jury. I was replying to sandy, are you sandy? I did not pull your chain so save your Baloney for another time or comment.

  • Patricia, you come off as radical as the atheist crew. Of course there are exceptions, heterosexual people lust after children too. Homosexuals are no more likely to do that than a perverted heterosexual. I might ask, how many homosexuals do you know well enough to ask questions? You might find out it is not a choice

    • Sylvia

      I wrote a research paper on the subject of homosexuals incidence of child molestation. Homosexuals are 3 times more likely to molest a child as a heterosexual. Yes, heterosexuals do molest children too, but homosexuals have a higher percentage rate in relationship to their numbers. Homosexuality is a sexual perversion. Perversion always breeds even deeper perversion.

      • ron

        Once homosexual relationships become accepted by society gays will no longer need to feel ashamed and forced to have casual sex with strangers as their only outlet. Over time their behavior with respect to promiscuity and sexual behavior will probably become similar to the opposite sex couples in the societies where they abide. The studies that you site merely show how human beings behave when they are treated as outcasts. That is not the way that Jesus treated outcasts. Once gays become accepted by Christians for who they are they will no longer be forced to accept “the world” as their only option and will then be able to adapt Christian values. You should not shut the door on them.

        • suez

          Oh, where is that rolling my eyes button when you need it???

    • Jim

      Usually Catholic priests. You reprobate Hal. perversion is perversion. How dare you try and candy coat it

  • Ha! Harold Lindsey! I can choose to be a bank robber because it feels good and I was born that way! I can choose to turn my back and let you all go ignorantly on your merry way to hell fire! If I do that then your blood will be on my hands. So I make my own choice to plead with you to turn from your wicked way before it is too late and I find myself guilty of failing to love my neighbor as myself enough to tell them the truth! There is always a choice. Did Eve have a choice? Did Adam? They might not have seen it that way at the time, but when those very flames of hell are sucking you in to a horrifying hell forever to burn, you may see things a little differently. And if there is no choice then why did God say, ‘Choose life that you and your seed may live’! Deuteronomy 30:19

    • Wendy

      Patricia, I LOVE IT when a family member speaks with such truth and zeal!!
      “You go,Girl” indeed!!!

  • Sylvia

    I think it is dangerous when you add an interpretation to what is simply written in God’s Word. There is no insinuation that Ham had sex with his father. The sin wasn’t even that he “saw” Noah, but that he came out and shared it with his brothers in a way that brought shame and humiliation on him. Noah knew about it because his other sons came in backwards so they wouldn’t see him and covered him. At that time you weren’t supposed to look upon another’s nakedness because it demeaned him. Except in the case of a husband and wife of course.

  • Richard
  • Stlvia, most of the statics you quoted were 30 years old. The experts you quote, well I have never heard of them. Why do you study all that crap anyway? Have you ever taken the time to talk to or learn from a gay man or lesbian?

    • I’ve talked to them. They’re just as confused as you are Sandy. And if anything the statistics are continually getting worse, not better. Who do you have to root for your species? – to lift you up in prayer? – to keep you out of the deep end?
      THE AGE OF GRACE IS ALMOST OVER WITH! And the only prayer we can pray is that you will learn the error of your ways and repent! The saddest thing we have to deal with is knowing the heart of our Savior, how it is grieved and saddened to know that there will be no place found for you in heaven, Revelation 12:8, after what Jesus went through to wipe out your sins and you ignore his great sacrifice and plod merrily on your way to the lake of fire, holding onto your sin as if it is some kind of a prize or your just desserts.
      Why do you hold onto it? Why do you cling to it? There is life abundant for you on the other side of your repentance! Father, help us! Give us courage to repent from all known sin and let our names not be blotted out of the book of life, dear Lord, let us cleave only to you, Lord God, now and always in Jesus name! Amen.

  • “The Forgotten Last Days Warning About Homosexuality in the Bible” at defendthefamily dot com explains in detail why Ham’s sin was believed by the ancient Hebrews to be homosexual in nature and offers a much more thorough discussion of homosexuality in the Bible

  • Good article. “The Forgotten Last Days Warning About Homosexuality in the Bible” at defendthefamily dot com explains in detail why Ham’s sin was believed by the ancient Hebrews to be homosexual in nature and offers a much more thorough discussion of homosexuality in the Bible. The site also offers a professionally-designed tri-fold brochure titled “NOT Just Another Sin” which summarizes the Biblical condemnation of homosexuality from Genesis to Revelation in bullet-points to distribute to pastors and other Christian leaders.

    I have no idea why my first attempt to post this was done in the name of Harold Lindsey.

  • Suez

    @ Harold or anyone. That is just one of the things in the Bible we really can’t prove one way or the other. So, there is no need to argue about it. Everyone has their theories…some may be right, or they may not be. Who really knows. I had read uncovering your Fathers nakedness, meant to lay with your Fathers wife. That is hard to believe, except, it doesn’t say if Noah’s wife was Ham’s mother. Who knows, his mother may have been dead, and ole Noah had a younger wife at that time??? That may make better sense. But like I said, we can’t prove it one way or the other….One thing we do know, is Noah knew Ham did it, no matter what it was, that alone raises a question to me,,,how did Noah know? Did his wife tell him? Hmmm

    • All that proves it that there is more than one way to uncover someone’s nakedness. I don’t care how many websites people find, I’m telling you now, it had nothing to do with sex! It was like what the one brother said. It was his uncovering his honor by going out and telling what he saw which was his father drunken and naked. sheesh.

      • Suez

        @Patrica. I never said I believed it or thought it to be true. I just said it as someone else s theory…:( I think they got it from a deeper study of the Hebrew, or Masoratic (Sp) text, or something. I can’t remember…

  • Larry / vietnamvet1971

    @ Suez, about the rolling eyes thing, YEP where do these people get this garbage.?

  • Ron, I have some Bible for you: The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

    For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

    Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

    Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

    Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. Romans chapter 1 New Testament! Ooooooooo…..

    • ron

      “For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him”

      And that’s where the trouble starts.

      They key is not whether they are gay or not but whether they believe in God or not. This passage says nothing about believers whether they are gay or not, it is only about non-believers. It does not say that ALL hetrosexuals and homosexuals turn out this way, but only the ones that turn their backs on God.

  • Suez

    About the strange flesh thing… G4561 From the Strong’s Concordance.
    Probably from the base of G4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), that is, (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred, or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specifically) (a human being) (as such): – carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh ([-ly]).
    Total KJV occurrences: 151
    STRANGE: ἕτερος
    Of uncertain affinity; (an-, the) (other or different)
    : – altered, else, next (day), one, (an-) other, some, strange.
    Total KJV occurrences: 99

    • ron

      Exactly, STRANGE is heteros meaning different. Hardly the word you would choose to convey homo. Makes more sense to me
      that its about the angels specifically or strangers in general.

  • Honestly folks, I think we have about worn out this topic out. There is nothing more to say. At this point people are just nitpicking each other.

  • That’s a destiny of male and female.
    That’s a destiny of humanity.

    Genesis 1.28

    28. And God blessed them and said to them, “Multiply and increase, and fill the earth and its environments, and have authority over the fish in the sea and the birds of the sky and the four-legged animals and all the creatures that crawl over the earth.”*


    • Dear Marek, what a wonderful and noteworthy quote! I would like to use that one myself if you don’t mind! 🙂

  • Suez, I think it was another case of me replying to the wrong person. I was talking to one of the guys, I think. Sorry for the confusion. I’m going to use names for sure.

  • Suez, very interesting word study! And it doesn’t get more ‘strange’ than a man looking for a place to put his reproductive organ in another man. Sorry, I have to say it like it is! Bless God! And damn perversion!

  • Collin, awesome quote from Bible Hub! Oorah!

  • Ron, hardly words YOU would use to describe homo! Because you twist everything which is from the word wicker because you are wicked! The reason heterosexuals are ‘different’ is because they are different from one another! Why? Because a man is different from a woman! Why? To be fruitful and multiply! What have you got?!

  • To everyone! Ham didn’t have sex with anyone! There is more than one way to uncover someone’s nakedness. Sheese!

  • Davina

    Actually I am Hassidic Jewish. This is the truth. The midrash on this parsha of the Torah is that Ham was cursed AND HIS DESCENDANTS FOREVER because of his rape of Noah. And that they would be slaves to the other nations as long as the curse holds.
    Just to show when a righteous man places a curse on a man and his DESCENDANTS, Hashem honors it.

    • Davina, there is more than one way to rape someone. There is an emotional rape; there is what they call a mind rape, and then there is that incidence when your character has been raped. Rape is a crime of violence, not always sexual. This is a well known fact. You will never convince me that Noah’s son had sex with him or his mother because that’s not what the Bible says. Noah felt that his character was attacked because his son did not cover his sin. He who seeks love covers a transgression. Proverbs 17:9. And love covers a multitude of sin. 1Peter 4:8 The lineage of Jesus would have to be marked with obedience, righteousness, and love and since there is no other way out of the curse but through him anyway, he is still the answer to Canaan’s dilemma. 🙂

  • Davina

    Also it is a step past sin, this thing they do. It is an abomination. What level of holiness are you operating at? Justifying this behavior? When Hashem and the Torah say a thing is evil, America says it’s good. When Hashem and the Torah say a thing is good, America says “Ah-that is an old mitzvah, Let’s not do it!”
    So how far from the attitude of Sodom and Amorrah is this?
    Elevation of the soul is the goal. Keep it holy.

    • Davina, about America calling good evil and evil good it is a sign that the end of the age is at the door. And might I add that you do have a way with words! 🙂

  • Dr Bob Chapman

    Michael Brown is the author of 25 books, including Can You Be Gay and Christian? He is also president of FIRE School of Ministry and director of the Coalition of Conscience.

    You know the hour is late when God uses a gay atheist to bring a sobering wake-up call to the church, but that’s exactly what happened after Ireland, traditionally a bastion of Catholicism, voted to redefine marriage. The gay atheist was Matthew Parris, and the Spectator posted his article entitled “As a gay atheist, I want to see the church oppose same-sex marriage.” Parris was grieved over the Catholic Church’s response to Ireland’s vote, feeling that it was weak and almost apologetic, like someone arriving late to a major cultural revolution and saying, “Oh my. I guess times have changed. We’ll have to do better with social media in the future.”

    He also stated his opinion that, for some years now, the Catholic Church in Ireland had not offered a robust moral argument against redefining marriage, also making reference to the “rantings” of evangelicals. He wrote, “Even as a gay atheist, I wince to see the philosophical mess that religious conservatives are making of their case. Is there nobody of any intellectual stature left in our English church, or the Roman church, to frame the argument against Christianity’s slide into just going with the flow of social and cultural change?” With brilliant sarcasm, Parris rewrites Exodus 32, when Moses came down from Mt. Sinai to find his people worshipping idols and engaging in immorality, prompting him to smash the tablets in anger and shaming the people with their sin.

    In the new Parris version, the events go like this: “And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the Irish referendum’s huge majority for gay marriage, and the dancing: and Moses’ alarm was palpable.

    And he took a copy of the Pink Paper and, flourishing it, said, “We have to stop and have a reality check, not move into denial of the realities. I appreciate how these naked revellers feel on this day. That they feel this is something that is enriching the way they live. I think it is a social revolution. We need to find a new language to connect with a whole generation of young people, the prophet concluded; then, casting off his garments, Moses said, ‘Hey, lead me to the coolest gay bar in the camp.'”

    Parris has hit the bull’s-eye, demonstrating more prophetic perception than many church leaders in the West, both in Europe and America. Since when does a popular vote determine morality? Since when does the majority determine the will of God? Since when do the shifting tides of culture determine what the Bible actually says? And since when have spiritual leaders been called to follow the crowd? I thought we were called to lead the crowd. Parris states: “The conservative Catholic’s only proper response to news such as that from Dublin is that 62 percent in a referendum does not cause a sin in the eyes of God to cease to be a sin.”

    Yes, a gay atheist is calling Christians to have moral backbone, and he is doing it with a clarity sorely lacking among many leaders today. And what do human opinions have to do with the truth of God anyway? How utterly perverse that some leaders make their decisions based on what is trending on Twitter or on what teens are doing on Instagram rather than basing everything on what God has clearly spoken in His Word, with sensitivity, compassion and cultural wisdom. Parris asks, “Can’t these Christians see that the moral basis of their faith cannot be sought in the pollsters’ arithmetic?” He also questions: “Can a preponderance of public opinion reverse the polarity between virtue and vice?

    Would it have occurred for a moment to Moses (let alone God) that he’d better defer to Moloch worship because that’s what most of the Israelites wanted to do?” I would love for these sentences to be circulated to every church, and then after everyone has said their hearty “Amen!” to tell them it was a gay atheist who penned these piercing words. And Parris is right to point out that Christians, of all people, should recognize that the majority is often wrong, stating that believers “need only consider the fate of their Messiah, and the persecution of adherents to the early church.”

    Enough with our gospel of cultural accommodation.
    Enough with our man-pleasing, spineless, non-confrontational message.

    Enough with trying to save our lives rather than losing our lives for Jesus and His cause.
    Enough with catering to the crowds instead of swimming against the tide and proclaiming the cross boldly and without compromise.

    It is a shameful day when a gay atheist has more spiritual insight and moral backbone than many church leaders in the West.

    Source: by Michael Brown

    • Dr. Chapman, oh wow!

    • Wendy

      Dr Bob:
      Amen, Amen and a big fat Amen!!!

      Thank you for taking the time to relay this.

      Come on, Family of God, BE BOLD WITH THE TRUTH!! LIVES–eternal ones– ARE AT STAKE!

  • Davina

    In Torah-speak, do any of you REALLY know what it means where it say Ruth ‘uncovered Boaz’ feet’ and lay down there? Why he was so compelled to marry her then? Or what ‘the water of the legs’ is? Nicer ways to say things

    • The Bible has never had a problem saying what it means! Boaz liked Ruth from the first minute he saw her! Jacob cried when he saw Rachel, what are you gonna read into that one?! It was joy to him to work for her father for years to be able to marry her! When I was younger, men stood in line for my hand in marriage – men I wasn’t sleeping with – you came too late to tell me you have to have sexual relations with someone because you uncover their feet or to get them to propose!

      • Don

        It is not reading into. We wrote the Tanach remember? Half of the meaning you have, only half.
        There is more precise meaning when you comprehend it in Hebrew, And know the midrash and mishnah that goes with each parsha.
        Also we learn Torah from Rabbis, who have years of seminary, compared to someone reading in English, making up bad translations as they go along.
        And study partners to debate every tiny point over.

        • Don, that is sad but true. And I’m sorry that it’s funny, but it is. Oh my!

        • Don, I put that comment in the wrong place. What I wanted to say on this comment of yours is that the scripture is spirit and must be spiritualy discerned. You have studied to show yourself approved, now you can take it to the next level and get for yourself the mind of Christ with understanding of all things. How awesome would that be, to know God that intimately – to get understanding along with wisdom is the principal thing. God loves you and so do I 🙂

  • Jesus was not a jew

    All you jewdeo-Christians and Esau/Edom-Edomite worshippers are going to enjoy this one.The Edomites truly are nations wreckers!

    How Nations Die!

    • You are right, Jesus was not a Jew! He was God in the flesh! Born to a Jewish father, laid in a manger, circumcised on the eigth day according to custom; he healed the sick, cast out demons, gave sight to the blind, forgave sins and set captives free. He was rejected by his own people, crucified as an insurrectionist, buried in a rich man’s tomb, raised on the third day, ascended into heaven where he sits at the right hand of the Father, everliving to make intercession for you. Why? Because he loves you just the way you are. Would you like to know why? He died to set sinners free. That would be an awful lot of trouble to go to for someone he doesn’t care about! Why don’t you trust him with your life? He trusted you with his! He knew what you would do to him, that you would literally beat him to death, and he came anyway, to save you from a firey forever grave of destruction; he planned to give you life and that more abundantly. Can you be man enough to receive it? Belly up to the table and take your portion from the bread of life! If you’re gonna spit in someone’s face, spit in the devil’s face – he didn’t die for you! He didn’t suffer for you! He certainly doesn’t want you to get born again! Spit in his face! Yeah, cut him off a knock of ‘don’t give a damn!’ The Spirit of God is calling you to repentance now, right here and right now: this is your chance, maybe your last chance for the Spirit of God will not always tarry. I would like to personally invite you to become a child of God and throw off your shackles of fear and torrment because, yes, sin hath torrment. You don’t sleep at night as well as you say you do, and you’re not as sure about your life as you would have people think you are. Go ahead, be brave, dive into the deep end where you will die or God himself will catch you. Do you really have that much to lose? I am here to tell you it will be the very best experience of your life to finally throw off the shackles of the flesh and dive into freedom! And if it doesn’t work, what have you lost? You can always go back to what you have now because you’re already dead for if you live through the lust of the flesh you are dead while you live. Say it: Jesus! I’m lost! Come and find me! And Jesus, the Son of God will come and he will find you. Amen.

      • Jesus was not a jew

        Patrici,I sleep very well at night.You really don’t know who you are dealing with.

        • A liar!

          • Jesus was not a jew

            I thought maybe you were a little wiser but I was wrong you have fallen for the lies also.

            Titus 1:13-16

            13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

            14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

            15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

            16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate

      • Jesus was not a jew

        You might want to watch the video,it is very illuminating.

        • The land of Israel belongs to Israel, but God has a lake for you!

          • Jesus was not a jew

            Patrici,just so you know, the jews running aroud are imposters and are Esau/Edom.
            The Jewish Encyclopedia, 1925 Edition, Volume 5, Page 4; states this very fact: “Edom is modern Jewry.” Since Esau is Edom, then Esau is modern Jewry.

            The 1984 Jewish Almanac says: “Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a ‘Jew’ or to call a contemporary Jew an ‘Israelite’ or a ‘Hebrew.’” It is incorrect and blasphemous for Canaanite/Edomite/Jews to call themselves Israelites. Jacob remained racially pure while Esau mixed his seed with alien wives. Jews are not part of the White Caucasian race.

            Edom/Esau has been led back to be destroyed!

            Malachi 1:1-4
            “The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi. I have loved you [Israel], saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother, saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, and I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, they shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them the border of wickedness, and the people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever”.

            Here are two more quotes for you.

            Rabbi Ben Zion Bokser wrote, “This is not an uncommon impression and one finds it sometimes among Jews as well as Christians – that Judaism is the religion of the Hebrew Bible. It is, of course, a fallacious impression. . . Judaism is not the religion of the Bible” (Judaism and the Christian Predicament, New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1967, p. 59).

            Rabbi Moshe M. Maggal, President, National Jewish Information Service wrote: “. . . you will notice the great difference between the Jewish and Christian religions. But these are not all. We consider the two religions so different that one excludes the other. . . we emphasized that there is no such thing as a Judeo-Christian religion. . . . There is not any similarity between the two concepts” (Letter of August 21, 1961).

          • Jesus was not a jew

            Patrici this is for you and all jewdeo-Christians…you had better think twice before you say that I will land in hell!
            You are well aware of these verses,but do you understand them?

            Matthew 7:21-23
            21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

            22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

            23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    • Suez

      OK, I watched the video, while much of it is a truth, I wouldn’t have used one with David Duke at the end of it…LOL That was a turn off, even for me. 😉 And to my limited knowledge Walt Disney, wasn’t a Christan, but a pedophile! 🙁 You may want to check into that one a bit…

      • Jesus was not a jew

        Suez,thanks for watching. David Duke is not all that bad as the people have been told he is.I am sure you know how propaganda works against people who are telling the truth. I have never really looked into Walt Disney but have read a couple of things here and there.He was probably a freemason, which of course was started by the Edomites(jews).

        • suez

          I agree with that. Propaganda everywhere now, and has been for centuries. I have to remember that. I’m just learning all about so many things we been taught that are lies. But boy oh boy, it’s hard to get yourself freed from it. I am continuing to pray for the Lord to help me be free of all falseness. And lead me into ALL TRUTH. No matter if I have to put away my pride!!! That is the hard part for some folks, having to realize they could be or are wrong….lol Thankfully, that is getting easier, because I rather know the truth, than be stuck in error. Praise God!!

  • Jesus was not a jew
    • God killed Christ: he is the pure and spotless Lamb that was slain from before the foundation of the world. His blood was shed for the forgiveness of sins. His body was broken for the healing of the nations. Anyone who believes let them receive now in Jesus’ name: receive your healing now. The Spirit of God is here to save, heal and deliver from demonic oppression of every kind. Reach out and receive your healing now. God will meet you here and now; he comes with healing in his wings. He is no respector of persons: anyone who will may come and drink from the water of life freely! Be healed and whole now in the mighty name above all other names – Jesus Christ of Nazareth! Glory to God! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!

      • Jesus was not a jew

        Patrici..it was jewish soldiers who arrested Jesus,it was jews who put Him on trial and it was jewish soldiers who crucified Him!!!!

        • It was God’s plan! But the Lord was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; if He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
          He will see His offspring,
          He will prolong His days,
          And the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hand. Isaiah 53:10

          • Jesus was not a jew

            Patrici,do you agree with my post above.You didn’t say that I was wrong.You do know about the enmity between Jacob and Esau and the blessing that Esau recieved. That blessing has come to pass and Esau(jews)is ruling over Jacob…but only for a little season.

          • Jesus was not a jew

            Esau’s descendants would eventually REDEEM their birthright. Esau [actually his descendants = the Edomites], would acquire lofty positions upon the earth, which would give them control over Jacob’s riches – the fatness of his brother’s richness, and the ‘dew’ [bounty] from such riches. In this manner, Esau wields control over his brother, Jacob, [which includes England, the British Isles, Canada, America, Denmark, France, Australia, and several other western countries], while he [Esau] sits in exalted positions of great power over Jacob’s descendants riches. Add to this the fact that scriptures state that Esau would be wise, proud, self confident, strong, cruel of heart, vindictive, idolatrous, superstitious, a cunning hunter, and the particular talent of extensive trade and commerce.

            “Behold, thy dwelling [SEAT OF HABITATION] shall be of the fatness [RICHNESS] of the earth, and of the dew [BOUNTY] of heaven [LOFTY PLACES] from above [EXALTED HEIGHTS]; And by thy sword [MILITARY] shalt thou live, and thou shalt serve thy brother [Jacob and the TEN TRIBES OF ISRAEL]; and it shall come to pass that when thou shalt have the dominion [over Jacob’s descendants in some way], that thou shalt break [REDEEM] the yoke from off thy neck.”

      • Suez

        Well brother and sister, actually, this is the truth of that matter: Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
        Joh 10:18 NO MAN taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. So, although some may have driven the nails, they didn’t kill him, as he gave it himself! 🙂 Just saying..:)

  • Davina

    That’s like how the blacks in America blame every white they see for slavery. I am no more guilty of murder than you are of racism and slavery. And it is Perushim, the term for Hassidic Jews, ‘Pharisee’ is like calling someone a bigger,
    Also, I have my G-d, The G-d of Ya’akov, Yitzhak, and Abraham, If you do not please Hashem by doing what he wants, instead of what man wants, that is SIN,

    • Davina

      Not a ‘bigger’, it is like calling someone a bigger, Perushim have the knowledge of why we do things the way we do, and how to do them properly.
      Avraham was Perushim.

    • Wendy

      Even the Jews need Jesus as their Saviour.
      Peace be with you, Davina~

  • Don

    Back to the sodomy, notice WHERE in the context of what Hashem is telling them it appears. In the verse directly before he addresses having sex with animals. Makes you wonder if this is the next law for sexually depraved to attack. People will be marrying their pets.

    • Jesus was not a jew

      Don, we live in a jew world..that is why everything is upside down.The next step… legalize pedophile.

  • For Jesusis not a Jew…..I feel evil, evil, evil. Patricia you are wasting your words.

  • Sandy, don’t worry, someone will see it and take it to heart. I pray that God will draw the one it is meant for and let them be saved now in Jesus’ name. 🙂

  • Just so YOU know, Jew is a name that has traditionally been applied to the Israelites of the house of Judah. God gave the land of Canaan to 12 tribes. He never recinded that order. The boundaries are clearly marked and he is not a man that he should lie. He is the same today, yesterday and forever. But if you want to get technical about it, then you would say he is a Nazerite. We here in America have a tendency to refer to God’s chosen people as the Jews even though he has actually said, All Israel will be saved. Romans 11:26. Hope that helps.

    • Jesus was not a jew

      Patrici,do you know when the word jew was invented?

      • Do you have a name, a real name? Tell me, when THAT was invented and I will tell you when the tag for Ju-dah began to be spelled J-e-w!

        • Jesus was not a jew

          Patrici,are you afraid of what you will find? Go ahead put it in your search engine. You and everybody else have been lied to by false prophets.

        • Jesus was not a jew

          Patrici,if you google in Jesus was not a jew you would be in for a big shock!

          • The only thing I’m shocked about is how demonic and gullible you are! Do you think we don’t know that if you can find a way to show that Jesus wasn’t Judean that according to scripture he wouldn’t have all the credentials of Messiah? How evil you are! You were right about one thing, I didn’t know who I was dealing with. But now that the light has shined on your wicked scheming ugliness, it is time to put you in your place. Shut up and be still! You have no idea how short of a time you really have!

  • Suez

    It just amazes me how people think they know all there is to know, and aren’t even open to think there is more to learn, or why they don’t question anything….:( I pray all the time for God to show me truth, and that if I am believing any lies, to please show me. I’m so thankful he has, as I submit my every thought, and all that I think I know unto him…Because I have found out, much of what I thought I knew, was nothing but lies. Did you women even try opening what he gave you to open??? You may be surprised at what it is. It is a picture of Israel today, and a second picture of Israel as designated by God. Oh, and it has a scripture with it: I will gather all the nations and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat. Then I will enter into judgment with them there on behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations; and they have divided up My land. Joel 3:2 That’s it!!! Now that is REALLY something to feel evil about isn’t it????? No wonder the God said, his people perish for lack of knowledge, it’s because they think they already have ALL the answers, when much of those can be lies, told by man…:( Very sad indeed!

    • Suez

      OK, humble apologies…I’m tired. I got my sites mixed up. The maps I was talking about were from Patrica’s site post. My humble apologies! But, just to add I have looked a some of his postings, and they are not really evil. Just different that you have been told….but information to look at, and pray about. Because, like I said, we have been so lied to, and we don’t know it all, and we all have much we can learn…from each other, if we but give it a try…pray-fully, and seek God for HIS truth 🙂

    • Suez, that was my post to my blog: http://2012beprepared@blogspot.com

  • Suez

    I believe I just said that in my apology above…LOL 😉

  • Solomon was the richest king; before him and after him there was no one richer. During his righteous reign there was so much gold in Jerusalem that people put their silver out like we put out our aluminum cans. People from all over the world brought him wealth to ask him questions and listen to the great wisdom that God gave him. It is recorded in the book of Ecclesiastes that he tried everything from being a workaholic to an alcoholic and every high he could think of, along with a thousand women; immense public works, slaves born in his house, singers and dancers, and all the pleasures that wealth can bring.
    His final conclusion, “When all has been heard, is: fear God and keep his commandments, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden whether it be good or evil.” Ecclesiastes 12:13-14.

  • Take the brackets out and see what it says.

  • Jesus is coming soon, why don’t you ask him if you’re so worried about it?http://youtu.be/8zX9WpfOUNI

  • Sorry to keep changing the subject, although I am not the one who changed it, This is for anyone who might still be wondering about whether or not Jesus was a Jew:

    Details Category: Jesus Last Updated on March 27, 2015

    It is important to begin by saying that for one who has already made up his or her mind that Jesus is not the Messiah, no amount of evidence will be convincing. But for those who are honest in asking, the evidence speaks for itself.

    When sincerely asked, this question is a good one. After all, there have been false Messiahs in Jewish history. Among the most prominent were Bar Kochba and Shabbetai Zevi. Bar Kochba led a revolt against Rome in the years 132-135 C.E.

    During this revolt, one of the most famous figures in Jewish history, Rabbi Akiva, proclaimed him to be “King Messiah.” Unfortunately, Bar Kochba, Akiva and thousands of Jews were killed in 135 C.E. when the Romans stormed the stronghold of Betar. Shabbetai Zevi, on the other hand, was a self-proclaimed Messiah. Flourishing in 17th-century Europe, the Shabbatean movement spread among both the common people and the rabbis. But when Shabbetai Zevi was arrested in 1666 by the Sultan of Turkey, he converted to Islam rather than face death. We have been tragically wrong before, so it is not surprising that hard evidence should be sought for believing in Jesus.

    The idea of a Messiah is one that is found throughout the Hebrew Bible.

    There, the Messiah’s “I.D.” is given to us. Imagine looking up a friend by first locating his country. That would not be enough information, so you would need to ascertain his city, street, and specific number on that street. It would also help if you had a phone number and knew the time at which he would be home.

    Similarly, the Bible tells us the “I.D.” of the Messiah. His ethnic background, place of birth, time frame of his arrival and other identifying characteristics are given. These “credentials” enable us to identify the Messiah, and to recognize imposters.

    Of course it might be objected that if these “credentials” are so clear, why didn’t most Jewish people believe in Jesus, and why were they so taken in by false Messiahs like Bar Kochba and Shabbetai Zevi?

    To understand this, one must realize that by the time of Jesus, the Messianic hope had become greatly politicized in the minds of the people. They were seeking deliverance from the tyranny of Rome. Although the Scripture spoke both of the sufferings and of the victories of the Messiah, the victorious aspect had become uppermost in the minds of the common people because of the Roman domination. This “lopsided” view of the Messiah has stuck with Jewish people, and the politicization of the Messianic hope has continued. Thus the hope of a political rather than a spiritual Messiah contributes to both the acceptance of people such as Bar Kochba, and the rejection of Jesus in his role as a Messiah.

    This is not to say that all Jewish people rejected the claims of Jesus. Far from that being the case, all the first followers of Jesus were Jews. In fact, the rabbis of that time period and afterwards were well aware of the many Messianic prophecies which Christians claimed were fulfilled in Jesus. So for instance, although the Talmudic rabbis concurred that Isaiah 53 was a prediction of the Messiah, by medieval times the pressure from those who applied this prophecy to Jesus was so great that Rashi, that greatest medieval Biblical scholar, reinterpreted the chapter and said it referred to the nation of Israel. This interpretation is maintained today by many Jewish scholars, though it only dates back to the Middle Ages.

    What, then, are some of the credentials of the Messiah?

    Only a few can be listed below; there are many others. All of these passages were recognized by the early rabbis as referring to the Messiah:

    Messiah was to be born at Bethlehem: Micah 5:2 (Micah 5:1 in Hebrew Bible)
    Messiah would be from the tribe of Judah: Genesis 49:10
    Messiah would present himself by riding on an ass: Zechariah 9:9
    Messiah would be tortured to death: Psalm 22:1-31
    Messiah would arrive before the destruction of the Second Temple: Daniel 9:24-27
    Messiah’s life would match a particular description, including suffering, silence at his arrest and trial, death and burial in a rich man’s tomb, and resurrection: Isaiah 52:13-53:12
    In detail as to lineage, birthplace, time, and lifestyle, Jesus matched the Messianic expectations of the Hebrew Scriptures.

    The record of this fulfillment is to be found in the pages of the New Testament. But several other factors combine to further substantiate the Messiahship of Jesus.

    In the first place, he claimed to be the Messiah! When a woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming.” he replied, “I who speak to you am he” (John 4:25-26). Naturally, that doesn’t prove anything one way or the other. But if Jesus had never made the claim to be the Messiah, why would we bother to try and prove that he was? His own claim lays the groundwork for the rest of the evidence.

    Jesus’ life is in sharp contrast to that of the false Messiahs, and it is a positive demonstration of what we would expect the Messiah to do.

    Thus, Jesus worked many miracles of healing, bringing wholeness into people’s lives, forgiving sin and restoring relationships. In contrast with Shabbetai Zevi, for instance, Jesus carried out the Law of Moses as a devout Jew. And in contrast with Bar Kochba, although Jesus also died, he was resurrected!

    The resurrection is a third piece of additional evidence, and it is perhaps the most convincing vindication of Jesus’ claims. It is interesting that an Israeli scholar, Pinchas Lapide, has written a book which has attracted no small amount of attention in the Jewish community. The reason is that Lapide has said that the resurrection of Jesus is well within the realm of possibility. After all, he reasoned, the Hebrew Scriptures give a number of accounts of people coming back to life. Why not Jesus as well? Regrettably, Lapide fails to note that the resurrection of Jesus is described in terms that go far beyond the resucitations of the other stories; and, he fails to come to grips with the fact that Jesus predicted his own resurrection, which vindicated his claims to Messiahship.

    An assortment of explanations has been offered throughout history to explain away the resurrection as either non-historical (“It never happened.”) or as non-supernatural (“Here’s how it happened.”).

    But these explanations have not been successful. Run down the possibilities for yourself and see which makes the best sense. Did the Roman authorities steal the body of Jesus from the tomb? Then why didn’t they produce it when the word started being spread that Jesus was risen? Or maybe the disciples stole it. But could such a fabrication on their part account for the change in their attitude? Three days earlier they were disillusioned, defeated idealists who had hoped that Jesus would bring in a new world order; could a lie which they knew to be a lie, now account for their hope, their boldness in the face of official persecution, and for the high ethical standards they set?

    Perhaps Jesus never died: he just fainted on the cross and revived in the tomb.

    This idea was popularized in the book The Passover Plot by Hugh Schonfield. Unfortunately the author overlooked the fact that the Romans pierced Jesus’ side, which would have most certainly killed him. Also, there was a contingent of Roman soldiers guarding the tomb as well as a huge stone that blocked its entrance. There was no way that a resuscitated Jesus could have escaped and then convinced hundreds of skeptical eyewitnesses that he had conquered death forever! Or was it all a mass hallucination? It must have been quite a hallucination to be seen by vastly different kinds of people at different times of day in many different places. You might be able to fool one person, but can you fool five hundred who saw him at one time? And unlike the pattern of hallucinations, these appearances of the resurrected Jesus stopped as suddenly as they started, forty days after the resurrection took place.

    The only satisfactory explanation is that the resurrection actually occurred, just as the record says. And if that’s the case, it’s a solid reason for accepting the Messiahship of Jesus.

    Jesus transforms people’s lives.

    Because he provides atonement for sin and reconciliation with God, Jesus brings peace, joy, and purpose into people’s lives. Apart from faith in him, there is no basis for true peace or direction, for as the psalmist says, “Man is estranged from the womb.” That this estrangement is healed by the reconciling ministry of Jesus is the common experience of those who believe in him.

    Between the objective evidence of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament, and the subjective verification in our own lives–we think there’s ample evidence that Jesus was who he claimed to be!

    • ron

      I am very impressed with your knowledge on this most important subject, too bad we can’t see eye to eye on the homosexual issue which I do not believe is as black and white as you claim it is. Some heterosexuals engage in immoral activities however that does not mean that they are all condemned. Whatever our sexual orientation, some control their desires in an acceptable manner(celibacy or marriage) and some do not. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

  • You are interested in knowledge, but you can go deeper than that. You can experience Jesus Christ of Nazareth as Savior and Lord. There’s nothing wrong with any of us that he can’t fix if you will be willing to trust him. Some things take a little longer until anything that displeases God is removed from our lives, till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. Ephesians 4:13.
    When we are first born again, all we want is God, we reach out for him, we draw from him the sincere milk of the word like newborn babes. 1Peter 2:2.
    To follow Christ, to be his disciple, is to offer yourself as a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your “reasonable service”.
    One time I wrote down all my hopes and desires on a piece of paper and I held that paper up to God and I said, Not my will but Thine be done. And with tears in my eyes, I lit it on fire and I burned it in the fireplace. It was my offering by fire unto the Lord. I’ve gone through many sorrows and trials and tribulations since that day, but I’ve never been sorry I did that. Maybe you will have to do something like that, or recommend it to someone else before this is over: freedom is what we’re after.
    Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

    A Father’s Discipline
    You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin; and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,

    “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
    Nor faint when you are reproved by Him;
    For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines,
    And He scourges every son whom He receives.”
    It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness. All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.

    Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble, and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.

    Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled; that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.

    Contrast of Sinai and Zion
    For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind, and to the blast of a trumpet and the sound of words which sound was such that those who heard begged that no further word be spoken to them. For they could not bear the command, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it will be stoned.” And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, “I am full of fear and trembling.” But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

    The Unshaken Kingdom
    See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape who turn away from Him who warns from heaven. And His voice shook the earth then, but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth, but also the heaven.” This expression, “Yet once more,” denotes the removing of those things which can be shaken, as of created things, so that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe; for our God is a consuming fire. Hebrews chapter 12.

  • Really interesting stuff

  • Pingback: Leonard Cohen; Jewish Insider or Jewish Prophet?()

  • Steve

    Didnt God curse Ham with dark or black skin because of his sin. I’ve heard that stated before


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