Vatican Announces Today Pope Francis Will Attend 500th Anniv Of Protestant Reformation Ceremony

Pope Francis will celebrate the 500th anniversary of the Reformation by attending an ecumenical service in Sweden as a guest of the Lutheran church, the Vatican said Monday. In a gesture that would even recently have been unthinkable for a Catholic pontiff, Francis will visit the Swedish city of Lund on October 31 for a commemoration jointly organised by his own inter-faith agency and the Lutheran World Federation.

500 years after the Protestant Reformation, Pope Francis knocks on Lutherans’ door looking for converts

“And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” Revelation 18:4 (KJV)

Let me just start of  by saying that I am not a Protestant. I am a Bible believing Christian who attends a Baptist church. The original Protestants were Catholics who objected to some but not all of the teachings of the Catholic Church. I do not agree with any of the teachings of the Catholic church because they do not line up with the Bible. For example, a Catholic will say to me “we both believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation”. I agree that Jesus is the only way to salvation and Heaven. But the Catholic church then tells me that in order to “have Jesus”, I must perform various Catholic sacramental rituals (not found in the Bible), pray the Rosary (not found in the Bible), confess my sins to a priest (not found in the Bible), and ask Mary to “make intercession with her son” for me (also not found in the Bible). The Bible and the Catholic church have never been in harmony, and they will never be in harmony.

So it is with great fascination that we see Pope Francis making his move to bring Protestant back into the Catholic church:

Pope Francis will celebrate the 500th anniversary of the Reformation by attending an ecumenical service in Sweden as a guest of the Lutheran church, the Vatican said Monday. In a gesture that would even recently have been unthinkable for a Catholic pontiff, Francis will visit the Swedish city of Lund on October 31 for a commemoration jointly organised by his own inter-faith agency and the Lutheran World Federation (LWF). source

For the past few years, Pope Francis has been working overtime to bring God’s “wandering children” back under the tent of Mother Rome. He has been surprisingly successful with the televangelists and the Charismatics who, having no Bible to stand on, fall quite easily under the seductive charm of the Vatican spokesperson. See this video below for more on that:


Pope Francis is building his One World Church, and the gates of Hell are helping him to create it. We have long said that before it’s all over, an enormous cross-section of Laodicean Christianity will either join the Pope’s unholy end times church or will be supporters of it. We present the following links as evidence:

Francis is going after the low-hanging fruit in the Lutheran church, they have long since lost any sense of Biblical direction they once had. The same goes for the apostate Presbyterian Church USA as well with their lesbians priests and same-sex marriage ceremonies. The sad part is that millions of Protestants gave their lives to throw off the demonic shackles of Rome and the Vatican. The King James Bible would not have been possible without the Protestant Reformation.

“And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.” Revelation 17:5-7 (KJV)

And the idea that Pope Francis could one day woo them back is tragic, but it is also part of end times prophecy. The Vatican is the Whore of Babylon mentioned in Revelation 17 & 18, and the office of Pope has long been associated with the office of the Antichrist.


NTEB is run by end times author and editor-in-chief Geoffrey Grider. Geoffrey runs a successful web design company, and is a full-time minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. In addition to running NOW THE END BEGINS, he has a dynamic street preaching outreach and tract ministry team in Saint Augustine, FL.

  • jkittyc

    Who is that Toni guy in the beginning of Kenneth Copeland’s video? He looks like the LUCIFER character in the new TV series that begins tonight. Ugh!

    • Geoffrey Grider

      He was a major pitbull for the Vatican who suddenly died in a bizarre motorcycle crash….

      • jkittyc

        That Tony guy is sorry he listened to the wrong teachings!

      • Edwitness

        I’m sorry Geoffrey,
        That reply about binding and loosing was meant for George.

    • CC

      I don’t remember his name but I read a few years back that he died.

    • Casey

      Kitty, you can actually bring it up on YouTube. His name is Tony Palmer. You should witness how many evangelical preachers actually gave him a standing ovation. NONE of them said no. None of them backed the Word of God. It made me sick to my stomach to see just how many have fallen away and embraced the pope and his henchman Tony Palmer.

  • jkittyc

    Oh. Well, I suppose he got where he was going a little earlier than he expected. He’ll have plenty of time to attempt to repay in purgatory. Maybe he’ll figure out that he’ll never get out of it, maybe he’ll figure out there’s no purgatory after all.

    • Geoffrey Grider

      Nope, no purgatory at all!

      • George

        Hmm… 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

        When will this test happen? How long will it take? What is it called? What if you gave it a name? Is that against God? Hasn’t the church given names to many things not in bible? What about the “Trinity”? That is not found in the bible yet we talk about it all the time. People are being unnecessarily critical when they to realize they are doing the same things. Does that make Christ less than Christ? No. Who cares if they call that test purgatory?

        • The Judgment Seat of Christ is not a test, it is a REVIEW of what you did or did not do for Jesus after you got saved. Now I know that Catholics have no idea what the Judgment Seat of Christ is, they were never taught it. Never met a priest, monsignor or bishop who knew what it was. Start by reading this then we can chat further:

          • George

            I am well aware of what the Judgment seat of Christ is. You should read that whole chapter (1 Corinthians 3) as it has a lot of wise advice for those who claim to know it all. 2 Corinthians 5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Bēma is the Greek word for the Judgement Seat. The word used in reference to the Judgement of Christ is only mentioned twice and referred to one other time. However, that said, nowhere, including in your reference, is the event described as in exactly what takes place or how long it takes. We only know the purpose and results of it. Do I believe in purgatory? Well, the first answer is no because I cannot find any reference to it in the bible. Do I believe in the “Trinity”? Yes, but it also in not mentioned in the bible. It is simply a word to define what some believe will occur at the Judgement Seat. I am very confident that if I went in any of the protestant churches I have attended and tested them on what the Judgement Seat is, I would also get a lot of blank stares or incorrect responses. I taught bible study in the Methodist church, so I know this. Does this make “their” church bad? No. So don’t go judging the whole because of the few. I also teach Catholicism and I encourage everyone to read their bible. If any have questions, I answer them using the bible. Here is a good question for you, do you have to read and know the bible in order to be saved? And what of all the people who have lived and died before bibles were massed produced and had no access to the Word other than bits and pieces they heard in church… did their lack of knowing what the Judgement Seat of Christ was cause them to suffer? Highly unlikely. If someone told them purgatory was that time of testing would that matter? Does it change anything? No. They still know they will go through a time of testing and examination. We call it the Judgement Seat of Christ, the Greek call it Bēma. Don’t be so nit-picky.

            For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings?

            Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight.

          • Edwitness

            Thank you for that Geoffrey,
            I appreciate the info on binding and loosing. It does help to have the Hebrew understanding when trying to interpret what Jesus taught. Not In the direction ‘Hebrew Roots’ takes it though.
            The reason I keep binding and loosing in the context of forgiveness is that when Jesus gave them the authority to bind and loose, He expounded on it in response to Peter’s question, by teaching a parable dealing with forgiveness. But, I can definitely see that given the Jewish context, their understanding would have to do with authority. And the apostles definitely needed authority to do what they were commissioned to do by Jesus. Thanks again,

          • Edwitness

            Thank you George,
            I appreciate the info on binding and loosing. It does help to have the Hebrew understanding when trying to interpret what Jesus taught His disciples. Just not in the direction the ‘Hebrew Roots’ takes it though.
            The reason I keep binding and loosing in the context of forgiveness, is that when Jesus gave them this authority, He expounded on it in response to Peter’s question by teaching a parable dealing with forgiveness. But, I can definitely see that given a Jewish context, their understanding would have to do with authority. And the apostles definitely needed authority to do what they were commissioned to do by Jesus. Thanks again.

        • Edwitness

          What does the length of time the bema judgment takes to conclude have to do with what it is? Purgatory is suffering for your sins Jesus’ sacrifice didn’t cover. The bema judgment is losing something (or gaining something, rewards) that no amount of suffering will be able to get back for you. The suffering spoken of in the passage refers only to the experiencing of loss. Not suffering in order to gain it back, the way Catholic doctrine says it does. The Catholic religion is an abomination. That is why she is referred to in scripture as the whore.

          • George

            That is not official teaching of what Purgatory is. The church uses the same scripture you do and only describes the Judgement seat by the name Purgatory and distinguishes it from the final judgement others will suffer. I find no reference of punishment in purgatory or praying for those that might be there as you suggested. Please site your references.

        • Edwitness

          To say those things that Garret said about Catholicism is not anti-Catholic. But isn’t it interesting that when a person is pro-Bible, to a catholic it can sound like they are anti-Catholic?

          • George

            Edwitness… it is if they are not factual or true.

        • Edwitness

          Here are some references for the catholic view on purgatory from the Catholic answers website.

          “The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a “purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven,” which is experienced by those “who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified” (CCC 1030). It notes that “this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned” (CCC 1031).

          The purification is necessary because, as Scripture teaches, nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven (Rev. 21:27) and, while we may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us, specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven. ”

          And they also had this to say. Interestingly enough, it was the next statement made in defense of the doctrine of purgatory.

          “One argument anti-Catholics often use to attack purgatory is the idea that the Catholic Church makes money from promulgating the doctrine. Without purgatory, the claim asserts, the Church would go broke. Any number of anti-Catholic books claim the Church owes the majority of its wealth to this doctrine. But the numbers just don’t add up.

          When a Catholic requests a memorial Mass for the dead—that is, a Mass said for the benefit of someone in purgatory—it is customary to give the parish priest a stipend, on the principles that the laborer is worth his hire (Luke 10:7) and that those who preside at the altar share the altar’s offerings (1 Cor. 9:13–14). In the United States, a stipend is commonly around five dollars; but the indigent do not have to pay anything. A few people, of course, freely offer more. This money goes to the parish priest, and priests are only allowed to receive one such stipend per day. No one gets rich on five dollars a day, and certainly not the Church, which does not receive the money anyway. ”

          And then there is this:
          In Luther’s time, the pope delegated the privilege of dispensing indulgences. The Castle Church in Luther’s Wittenberg, for example, was delegated the rare privilege granting full remission of all sins. Frederick the Wise, elector for the region of the Holy Roman Empire that included Wittenberg, took pride in a large collection of relics (over 19,000 holy bones and 5,000 other items*) of saints that supposedly provided the basis for granting indulgences that could reduce stays in purgatory by over 1.9 million years. These treasures were made available to believers on All Saints Day, November 1. By viewing the relics and making the stipulated contribution, the believer could reduce a stay and purgatory while providing much needed financial support for Castle Church and the University of Wittenberg.

          Leo X, the pope in 1517, needed funds to complete the building of St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome. Leo entered into an arrangement that essentially sold indulgence franchises that allowed the franchisee to retain about half the funds raised by selling indulgences in return for sending to Rome the other half for Leo’s construction project. To encourage indulgence sales, Albert of Brandenburg, one winner of the privilege of selling indulgences, advertised that his indulgences (issued by the pope) came with a complete remission of sins, allowing escape from all of the pains of purgatory. Moreover, Albert claimed, purchasers of indulgences could use them to free a loved one already dead from the pains of purgatory that he or she might presently be experiencing. The going rate for an indulgence depended on one’s station, and ranged from 25 gold florins for Kings and queens and archbishops down to three florins for merchants and just one quarter florin for the poorest of believers.
          In proclaiming the special indulgence offered by Albert of Brandenburg, indulgence vendor John Tetzel promoted it with a sermon that included a jingle of his own creation: “As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory springs.” Tetzel made his way through Germany, entering towns as part of a procession that included local dignitaries, a cross bearing the papal arms, and the papal bull of indulgence carried on a velvet cushion. In the marketplace of each town, Tetzel would offer this sermon:

          Listen now, God and Peter call you. Consider the salvation of your souls and those of your loved ones departed. You priest, you noble, you merchant, you virgin, you matron, you youth, you old man, enter now into your church, which is the Church of St. Peter. Visit the most holy cross erected before you and ever imploring you. Have you considered that you are lashed in a furious tempest amid the temptations and dangers of the world, and that you do not know whether you can reach the haven, not of your mortal body, but of your immortal soul? Consider that those who are contrite and have confessed and made contribution will receive complete remission of all their sins. Listen to the voices of your dear dead relatives and friends beseeching you and saying, “Pity us, pity us. We are in dire torment from which you can redeem us for a pittance.” Do you not wish to? Open your ears. Hear the father saying to his son, the mother to her daughter, “We bore you, nourished you, brought you up, left you our fortunes, and you are so cruel and hard that now you are not willing for so little to set us free. Will you let us lie here in the flames? Will you delay the promised glory?” Remember that you are able to release them, for as soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory springs. Will you not then for a quarter of a florin receive these letters of indulgence through which you are able to lead a divine and mortal soul into the fatherland of paradise? [Bainton, pp. 60-61]

          The sale of indulgences and the purchase called the ‘memorial mass’ is evidence enough for any objective observer to conclude that a Catholic is taught to believe that one can ‘buy’ his or his deceased loved one’s way out of purgatory. And that the purpose of purgatory to the Catholic is to suffer for sins not yet forgiven.
          Who you trying to kid?

          • Skywatcher

            WOW!!! ED, you really did your homework there, Brother! To sum it all up, Christ’s death on the cross was a waste of time, according to that mess of rubbish! Um, UMM, UMMM! The unnecessary guilt that was harnessed onto the children of the deceased. Despicable and shameful beyond measure!

            This statement really got me: “Open your ears. Hear the father saying to his son, the mother to her daughter, “We bore you, nourished you, brought you up, left you our fortunes, and you are so cruel and hard that now you are not willing for so little to set us free. Will you let us lie here in the flames?”

            What rot! What a thing to say to a child who so recently laid their beloved parent to “rest”!!! Nothing like playing on their raw emotions to make a buck! Right from the pit of Hell! Imagine! If a person’s sins had been forgiven, what were they doing in Hell in the first place! That’s what happens when dear people do not do their homework and read the Scriptures for themselves. They’ll swallow anything, when it comes from someone they hold up in such high esteem and unworthy reverence!

            I wonder why George felt he had to hide this obvious truth? Even more so, I wonder how genuinely born again Roman Catholics can disobey Christ’s command, and not “come out of her”?! I just got the answer. They’re bound by ignorance of the Word, fear, and manipulations.

            Do you mind if I save this for future reference? That is powerful medicine to dole out to the liar or denier! Thank God, that Jesus paid it all, and all to Him we owe! We are made free through the work of Christ on the cruel cross. Praise His name!

            Thank you, Ed, for sharing those precious little nuggets of truth and insight!

          • George

            Edwitness… 2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. What bad things? What could that possibly mean?

            As for any memorial Mass for the dead, one it’s nothing obligatory nor have I ever seen it done. Second, it is no different than making a memorial contribution to any protestant church that takes care of a funeral for one it’s members which I have seen many times. You are really digging deep here to prove nothing.

            In Luther’s time? In Luther’s time?? Seriously? Let’s talk about the Crusades while we are digging up old useless information that has not one meaningful aspect to today’s church. Shall we also go digging up protestant wars and murders that have occurred as well? Let’s at least keep this dialog current.

            Catholic Answers is not what I teach from and is not produced by the Catholic church. It is a lay-run apostolate of Catholic apologetics and evangelization based in El Cajon, California. It doesn’t get everything right.

            Back to the original statement: 2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. What bad things? What could that possibly mean? It says, each of us may RECEIVE what is due us for the BAD things we have done. Those are the sins the Catholic church refers to as venial. You can call them whatever you want but the bible is clear about it. It doesn’t say “so you may receive less reward” does it? What does that leave? Once again, we can all interpret the way that makes us happy, but God/Jesus will have the last say. Amen!

        • Edwitness

          And neither is purgatory or the suffering and purchase out of it, a Biblical doctrine. It is made up of the common practice among Roman Catholics that is to “wrest as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” 2nd Peter3:16

        • Edwitness

          Jesus explained ‘binding and loosing’ when He spoke again to the disciples in Mt.18. He told them that what they are ‘binding and loosing’ was themselves. It goes like this.
          Jesus is telling them in Mt.16 and Mt.18 the same thing. Only in Mt.18 He gives a more complete answer because Peter asked Him further, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Till seven times?” In Jesus’ answer we find what this ‘binding and loosing’ thing is about. He says “until seventy times seven”.
          In the 27th verse Jesus uses the word He used when saying that the disciples had the power to bind and loose in 18:18. He said “Then the Lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.” As the message continues we learn that the servant who was freely forgiven, would not do the same for his fellow servant. And at the end we see that he is once more brought before his Lord.
          Jesus then makes it clear what ‘bind and loose’ means. He says “And his Lord was wroth, and delivered him up to the tormentors; till he should pay all that was due unto him.”
          Remember, Jesus is telling the disciples about forgiveness as a debt we owe one another. So when we choose not to forgive, we are bound in a prison of unforgiveness “till” we loose (forgive) our brother.
          All binding and loosing in scripture is related to forgiveness. Even when Ananaias and Saphira were found to be lying to the Holy Spirit. Their sins were bound to them by Peter. The reason for their deaths was that God needed the new believers to know He was not to be trifled with. I don’t know of any other instance since then where God manifested Himself in such a way.

          And the rock Jesus referred to in Mt.16 is the revelation that Peter received from the Father that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. Everyone who receives salvation must have that revelation first in order to receive anything else from God.
          And it’s definitely not the Peter was the first pope. How ridiculous.

          • George

            Once again you have missed an important key of understanding. As I said before, if it was easy to interpret, we’d all agree but yet we don’t. Here is a non-Catholic commentary of that binding and loosing. Jesus was a Jew and he fully understood Jewish customs and the Law. So you need to have some understanding of how Rabbis of the time used those words. Hebrew and Greek words have many meanings so one has to understand the context in which they are being used to understand what is being conveyed. One of those for bind (deō), is: to put under obligation, of the law, duty, etc. Forgiving or not forgiving is well establish is other books of the bible and are addressed to the congregation where this binding and loosing was for Peter and the apostles ONLY. That is why Jesus did this privately. You surely must agree that Jesus spoke to them privately on other occasions to discuss important business that was just between them and Jesus, not the public at large.
            Here is the commentary I spoke of with resource at the end:

            And whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven: The power for binding and loosing is something that the Jewish rabbis of that day used. They bound or loosed an individual in the application of a particular point of the law. Jesus promises that Peter – and the other apostles – would be able to set the boundaries authoritatively for the New Covenant community. This was the authority given to the apostles and prophets to build a foundation(Ephesians 2:20).

            i. We should understand this as Jesus giving both the permission and the authority to the first generation apostles to MAKE THE RULES FOR THE EARLY CHURCH – and indirectly, the inspired writings that would guide all generations of Christians. The authority that Peter carries is “not an authority which he alone carries, as may be seen from the repetition of the latter part of the verse in Matthew 18:18 with reference to the disciple group as a whole.” (France)

            ii. “Binding” and “loosing” were administrative terms in daily Jewish life; whenever a Jew came up against the Law of Moses, that Jewish person was either “bound” or “loosed” in regard to that law. To loose was to permit; to bind was to prohibit. To loose was to free from the law, to bind was to put under the law. “Their regular sense, which any Jew would recognize was to allow and to forbid. To bind something was to declare it forbidden; to loose was to declare it allowed. These were the regular phrases for taking decisions in regard to the law.” (Barclay)

            iii. In daily Jewish life, this could be rather complicated. Here is one example from ancient rabbinical writings, cited by teacher Mike Russ:

            If your dog dies in your house is your house clean or unclean?Unclean.
            If your dog dies outside your house, is your house clean or unclean?Clean.
            If your dog dies on the doorstep, is your house clean or unclean? Ancient rabbinical writings took the issue on and decided that if the dog died with his nose pointing into the house the house was unclean; if the dog died with his nose pointing away from the house, the house was clean.

            iv. As their rabbi, Jesus did this binding and loosing for His own disciples. Without using the same words, this is what Jesus did when He allowed them to take the grains of wheat in the field (Matthew 12:1-8).

            v. Significantly, when it came time to understand the dietary laws of the Old Covenant in light of the new work of Jesus, God spoke to Peter first. He and the other apostles, guided by the Spirit of God, would bind and loose Christians regarding such parts of the Old Covenant.

            vi. In a lesser, secondary sense this power is with the Church today. “Today the Lord continues to back up the teaching and acts of his sent servants, those Peters who are pieces of the one Rock. The judgments of his Church, when rightly administered, have his sanction so as to make them valid. The words of his sent servants, spoken in his name, shall be confirmed of the Lord, and shall not be, either as to promise or threatening, a mere piece of rhetoric.” (Spurgeon)

            From Blue letter bible . com
            David Guzik :: Study Guide for Matthew 16

            My words now: Is the Catholic church wrong for continuing this binding and loosing? That is up to God and they will surely pay their dues, just as you and I will, come the Judgement seat of Christ. Where most people fail in reading the Gospels is recognizing that Jesus was still alive and explaining Jewish Law and failings of the Rabbis/teachers of the time in understanding it themselves. And now here we are doing the exact same thing. I am not attempting to change you but to open your mind to other possibilities. Peace.

          • George


            Correction to that reference:
            Blue letter bible dot org
            Not dot com…. sorry about that.

        • Edwitness

          That is my point. If we are pro-Bible, meaning we have interpreted it correctly, instead of being pro-anything else, we will be telling the truth. Because there is no error, not one single contradiction, in the KJV of the Bible. But, the Catholic religion is full of error. It is the woman that rides the beast in Rev.17.
          I say that to encourage you to flee from her to faith in the Jesus that saves to the uttermost.

          • George

            Edwitness… Again, if we all interpreted it correctly we would not be having this conversation. I agree there is no contradictions in the original writings. The Catholic church (it is not a religion) if full of itself, that much I agree, but so are all protestant churches. Those things you call errors are it’s teachings that are not set in stone and do change. They are no different than what all churches and denominations do, such a the Church of Christ that will not allow a musical instrument to be played in it sanctuary or Seventh Day that insists the Sabbath is on Saturday or the many other quirky rules all churches make. Not one church today does what the first ‘church’ did as described in Acts.

            As for the woman that rides the beast, the harlot rides the same beast (seven heads and ten horns) that was previously seen in Revelation 13:1 – the Antichrist and his dictatorship. On this much we agree. Her association with blasphemy and the dragon’s beast are clearly seen from God’s perspective. However, to the people of the earth she will look quite religious, and have the “faith” everybody wants. Well, that certainly is not the Catholic church of today. Will it be tomorrow? Or will it be some strange combination or concoction of other religions? Time will tell. Many people have been guessing for generations of how this will play out and there are as many guesses as there are stars. Let me just say, God knows each persons heart and destiny. I know without a shadow of a doubt of mine because he showed me and promised me I would be in the Kingdom of Heaven based on my unwavering belief and worshiping of Jesus as my Savior. No matter where this Antichrist comes from, I am saved.

          • David Kaus

            Well spoken and right on target Edwitness.

        • Edwitness

          Yes, we can interpret it the way that makes us happy. But, I prefer to interpret it the way the context of the scripture says it is to be interpreted. So when we look at the way the believer’s works are judged, we have to include 1stCor.3 for an accurate picture of what actually takes place. In your interpretation there would be no one who would go to Heaven without suffering in purgatory first. Well, almost no one:

          (“Anyone who dies in sin, but not Mortal Sin, goes to Purgatory. This would include Priests and Bishops (the Pope is the Bishop of Rome).
          There are specific cases that the Church says the person will go straight to heaven. We say Mary was assumed into heaven; she did not go to Purgatory. Martyrs are also said to go straight to heaven according to religion facts.: If a person is martyred for the faith, miracles are not necessary to be declared a saint. As mentioned above, the purpose of canonization is to verify that the person is now in heaven, and all those who die as martyrs are believed to go straight to heaven.”)

          Because vs.13-15 says “Every man’s work…shall be revealed by fire….” All of it, good and bad. To the Catholic the fire that purges bad works is purgatory. And since all of the works, good and bad, are revealed by fire, then everyone must go to purgatory for this trial. See how this contradicts what is in parentheses above?

          But, to the Christian the fire is God Himself. He judges the works and burns up those that would fall into the category of wood, hay, or stubble. And He gives rewards for those that are gold, silver, and precious stones. No place where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth for the Christian. We go straight into heaven.

          You see, the real problem here is the inability for Catholicism to correctly interpret this scripture, caused by your understanding being tainted by believing in a salvation that is by works and faith combined. Works always play the greater role in this kind of thinking. Because there is no way to get past the thinking that you can never quite do enough. “All have sinned and fallen short”, right? This perversion of the gospel is your downfall. And will ultimately disqualify the Catholic from the kingdom of God. Eph.2:8,9

          And you are correct in saying that Jesus will have the last say. AMEN.

          • George

            Edwitness… we’ve kicked this horse enough, BUT let me stop you right here and now with what you just said: “You see, the real problem here is the inability for Catholicism to correctly interpret this scripture, caused by your understanding being tainted by believing in a salvation that is by works and faith combined.”

            Not sure where you are getting this from, but Salvation does not come by works, but by faith alone! I never said or claimed anything about Salvation based on works! That is crazy talk. Again, you are making assumptions based you YOUR skewed perspective of the Catholic church. Lastly, show me a person on earth that claims to interpret the whole bible correctly and I will show you a liar. You have already shown me that you, yourself have made mistakes whether you will admit to it or not. By God, will you say you can fully interpret the bible without fail?

        • Edwitness

          In answer to your question at the end of your reply about binding and loosing and Catholic’s continuing with that authority.
          The Catholic religion is not Christian and therefore can have no such authority. It is a pagan religion.
          The only ‘church’ that has any authority that Jesus gave is the ‘church’ that trusts solely in the redemption that Christ alone brings. His body. Any works or pagan practices for salvation and worship are a disqualification from any and all authority handed down from Jesus.
          Roman Catholicism has long ago proven where she gets her authority. And that is from the edge of the sword. By this means she has made herself “drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus”. Just as she is described as being in Rev.17:6.
          My question to you is, how can you make yourself a part of such a group of people who have a history that makes them guilty of so much innocent blood?
          The really sad thing is the world has yet to have seen the half of it.
          I truly hope you can see your way clear of her deceptions.
          I’m not trying to change you either. I’m praying that God does.

          • George

            Edwitness… “The Catholic religion is not Christian and therefore can have no such authority. It is a pagan religion.”

            Wow… As I said, I have failed to find a single church/denomination that isn’t doing something wrong, but the last time I checked, Jesus said if you believe in me you will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. If the Catholic church is pagan, then so are all the others. All protestant churches practice pagan rituals by dragging in a Christmas tree and celebrating Easter with eggs. I do neither. Does that make me more Christian? No. Every protestant church I ever attended had their own rules and regulations based on how they believe and they are not all the same. Baptist, Methodist, Church of Christ… the list is endless and every single one has their own “laws”. Those things have nothing to do with our Salvation. In the Old Testament non Jews had their belief and worship of God counted as their righteousness. Today, our righteousness is believing in Christ Jesus and worshiping God through him. What part of that don’t you get? Our Salvation is NOT based on where we go to church or even if we go to church for that matter. What is the Church? It is not a building or denomination, it is the congregation of all the Saints who have received Salvation through Jesus. Have I missed something here? The day is coming when the sheep will be separated from the goats and it won’t be based on the church they attend. Your buddy Skywatcher doesn’t get that and I am not sure you do either.

            And trust me, if you only knew how God directs and uses me you would be more understanding. But that is a longer story for another day. Did you ever think that maybe he has me exactly where he wants me for His reasons? I did not choose to go back to the Catholic Church.

        • Edwitness

          The Vatican is meeting with those who represent almost every religion on the planet with the expressed desire to bring all of them under one umbrella. And just what would that one umbrella be? Hmm. I wonder?
          recognizes Palestinian state
          Facebook policy agrees with pope’s position on ‘refugees’
          Meets with head of Google
          Meets with Christine Lagarde, head of IMF
          Signs agreement with rabbis over Jerusalem
          Meets with Iranian head
          Meets with Obama
          Meets with congress of US
          Speaks at UN
          When the pope travels to countries around the world he is greeted by tens of thousands.
          Pope Francis is building his One World Church, * RICK WARREN SAYS POPE FRANCIS IS THE POPE OF ALL CHRISTIANS WORLDWIDE
          This pope has said that Islam worships the same God as catholics do. He has met and prayed with imams and even will celebrate the 500th anniversary of the Reformation by attending an ecumenical service in Sweden as a guest of the Lutheran church. “In a gesture that would even recently have been unthinkable for a Catholic pontiff, Francis will visit the Swedish city of Lund on October 31 for a commemoration jointly organised by his own inter-faith agency and the Lutheran World Federation (LWF).”
          This pope and the doctrines of the Catholic religion are the perfect match for the woman that rides the beast. In her catechism she states that Muslims are already saved.
          841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

          The world is not one day soon to follow Catholicism into a world religion. It is happening right now. I don’t see anyone else that is able to bring all of these religions together the way this pope and his Vatican workers are. She is the harlot of Rev.17

          • George

            Edwitness… much of what you just posted is filled with bits and pieces of conjecture and half truths. You really don’t know WHAT goes on behind closed doors. But I will show you where you fail and why you continue to fail. You don’t research. You don’t confirm the things you read. You absorb what your itching ears what to hear. Why do I say this? The Pope NEVER said Christians and Islam worship the same God. That came from a fake news article!


            Although I don’t always use Snopes, in this case I make an exception because it is quick and easy to get my point across. Don’t believe everything you read. Abraham Lincoln was once quoted as saying, “You can’t believe everything you read on the Internet”.

        • Edwitness

          Then in regard to the doctrine of salvation by works mixed with faith you are not Roman Catholic.
          1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us “the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ” and through Baptism

          1999 The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of his own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. It is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism. It is in us the source of the work of sanctification

          After belief, the person must be baptized(works), which is necessary for salvation (CCC 1257). This baptism erases original sin (CCC 405), unites the person with Christ (CCC 977), infuses grace into the person (CCC 1999), and grants justification (CCC 1992, 2020). After baptism, he is saved. But, to maintain his salvation, it is necessary for him to perform good works (CCC 2010, 2068, 2080) and participate in the sacraments (CCC 1129) which provide grace that is “proper to each sacrament” (CCC 1129, 2003). This is necessary in order to maintain infused grace (CCC 987, 1468).

          However, grace can be lessened by venial sins or completely lost by mortal sins. Venial sins (CCC 1862) remove part of the infused grace but not the saving grace known as sanctifying grace (CCC 1863). To remedy the problem of venial sins, the Catholic is to take the Eucharist which the Church teaches forgives venial sins (CCC 1416). He must also perform various penance which must be done in concert with perfect contrition (CCC 1452)

          These indulgences draw upon the “good works of the Blessed Virgin Mary” (CCC 1477) and “of Christ and the saints” so as to obtain “the remission of the temporal punishment due for their sins” (CCC 1478). Furthermore, the indulgences can be applied to themselves or the dead (CCC 1471) who are in purgatory (CCC 1498). Now, in case the Catholic has committed a mortal sin, then all his infused grace is lost. To regain this grace, he must partake of special penance (CCC 980) since it helps restore grace that was lost (CCC 1468, 1496). To conclude, the Roman Catholic must have faith, participate in the sacraments, take the Eucharist, keep the commandments, perform penance, and do indulgences in order to attain, maintain, and regain his salvation as well as reduce the punishment due to him for the sins of which he has already forgiven.

          Maybe you will say that these are the opinion of someone. But, when you look at the catechism that is represented in these enumerated you can come to no other conclusion than to know that Catholicism believes in salvation by works. Both in it’s initial step and thereafter. Shame on you for calling yourself a Catholic if you do not believe the Catechism. And if you do believe the Catechism, shame on you for trying to deceive in saying you don’t believe in salvation by works and staying saved by works.

          • George

            You said, “1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us “the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ” and through Baptism”

            What is baptism? According to the Greek word, it is or means to immerse. John baptized with water, but Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit. But the Greek word is used for both instances. How do you tell which one is implied? So, if you’ve never prayed for Jesus to come into your heart, you’ve probably not been baptized by fire. John baptized with water for repentance, but with Salvation comes another baptizing with the Holy Spirit.

            Here is the thing about baptism and Salvation. Even some Protestant churches teach this based on certain scripture that says “He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes AND IS BAPTIZED will be saved…” (Mark 16:15-16) Jesus was baptized and the dove came down. And “I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ (John 1:33) Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.(Acts 2:38) Wait… what did he say? Repent and be baptized, AND THEN you will receive the Holy Spirit. Wasn’t it John who baptized with water for repentance? This is why some churches (not just Catholic) insist upon a water baptism.

            But here is the most important part: Jesus said believe in me and you will be saved. Did he say believe in me but don’t get baptized with water? No. So what difference does it make as long as the person saved did the one thing Jesus said to do, believe in him? Many Protestant churches demand full immersion verses sprinkling. Do you think that matters to Jesus? Or do you think the only thing Jesus will expect from you is your belief in him? You, like others want to take away that gift simply because you “think” their Salvation was connected to a work. You are splitting hairs my friend.

            As for losing grace. Did you know that those in the Protestant denomination, the Church of Christ, think their church members will be the only ones to get into the Kingdom of God? Will that sort of thinking keep them out? No. Will the Catholic thinking you can lose your grace by committing a mortal sin keep you out? No. What will keep you out is your heart. If you can commit sin, not caring what God thinks, you probably should reevaluate your Salvation. If you do care by showing remorse and a contrite heart, begging for forgiveness, will you get it? Yes. But as Paul says, that is not permission to sin. And that is exactly what CCC 1861 says: “It [mortal sin] results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. IF IT IS NOT REDEEMED by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom…” How can anyone commit such a sin and not show remorse be considered a seriously saved Christian? Again, you are reading just what you want and incorrectly interpreting it.

            Here is what you claim CCC 1257 says: After belief, the person must be baptized(works), which is necessary for salvation

            Here is what my official book say: 1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

            That’s a pretty big difference. But again you are splitting hairs because the church also believes in Baptism by desire. What is that? The thief on the cross is the prime example of this. The thief asked Christ to remember him and Jesus said, “Today you will be with me in paradise.” But wait, he wasn’t baptized was he? The church recognizes this. Conflict? Or further explanation overlooked by others?

            I can’t spend all day explaining all these things to you. If you want to judge the church and do Jesus’ job, you go right ahead, that will be on your head, not mine.

        • Edwitness

          You are wrong though. Even if the way Skywatcher expressed the truth about Catholicism bothered you. And what is worse is I believe you know it’s wrong.
          Catholicism is not a nice club. It is an abomination. A harlot. Playing around with it because you have grown accustomed to it’s ceremony is really playing with fire. LITERALLY!

          • George

            I appreciate your advice, but I am following God’s cue. I don’t expect you to understand that, but that is okay. Trust me, I am not a novice here, nor am I ignorant of the world we live in. Should the Catholic church turn away from God in a way that “some” people think will happen, it won’t effect my Salvation. Perhaps God has me in place to minister to others he knows will follow him. Why else would, within one year of attending this Catholic church, would he put me in a position to teach others? And trust me, I don’t hold back. I know my bible very well and that is where my meat comes from when I teach. I go where God leads me and he hasn’t let me down in 40 years. Perhaps from your point of view, he put me in the fire to pull others out. Who knows? God knows. But I will say, you and the others need to be a little more godly and respectful of others that don’t see things your way. You will never win them over by chastising and belittling them. The central command that Jesus taught was Love. Love your neighbors as you love yourself. He said, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22:36-40)

        • Edwitness

          #1. ‘Believing’ in Jesus does not necessarily save us. “The Devils believe and tremble,” right?
          #2. The practices you spoke of are not dogma as are those that I refer to when speaking of Catholicism. The Catholic catechism has many heresies, that if believed on for salvation, will cause that person to miss the salvation Jesus died to procure for us.
          #3. You said “…I did not choose to go back to the Catholic church.” But, the desire to defend Catholicism you have expressed in our earlier communications betrays what you seem to be implying in your words now. Are you saying that you really do not prescribe to Catholic dogma, and are really there at God’s request in order to win those people who are there to the true gospel and the Jesus of the Bible?
          A thing that is hard for me to believe given what you have written here before in defense of Catholicism.

          • George

            Edwitness… Point by point.
            #1. ‘Believing’ in Jesus does not necessarily save us. “The Devils believe and tremble,” right?

            Oh, come now, I think you know me well enough by now to know what I mean when it comes to “believing”, certainly not as demons do, but for Salvation.

            #2. The practices you spoke of are not dogma as are those that I refer to when speaking of Catholicism. The Catholic catechism has many heresies, that if believed on for salvation, will cause that person to miss the salvation Jesus died to procure for us.

            Show me one so-called heresy that does not include accepting Jesus in their heart for Salvation. I’ve already address many of them. Some protestant churches claim if you don’t say the words just right, you won’t be saved. OMG… splitting hairs again. If you believe and accept Jesus in your heart with all you soul, you are saved. Only God knows if you are just going through the motions or really mean it. That is what the church teaches: Salvation must include that belief and acceptance for worshiping reasons.Why do you want to make it harder than that?

            #3. You said “…I did not choose to go back to the Catholic church.” But, the desire to defend Catholicism you have expressed in our earlier communications betrays what you seem to be implying in your words now.

            That is wrong. I would defend YOU if someone said something about you I didn’t think was true. It doesn’t mean I want to marry you. I am not a Catholic any more than I am a Methodist (although I am a member of their churches) Going to a church doesn’t make you that denomination any more than going to McDonald’s makes you a hamburger. I was baptized in a baptist church, does that make me a baptist? No. I am a Christian. I follow and worship Jesus Christ, the One and only Son of God.

            Are you saying that you really do not prescribe to Catholic dogma, and are really there at God’s request in order to win those people who are there to the true gospel and the Jesus of the Bible? A thing that is hard for me to believe given what you have written here before in defense of Catholicism.
            I am saying I am where I go and do God’s work which is to preach the Gospel of the Good News. You take it however you want to. I’ve told the priest there the same thing. He knows I won’t call him “Father”. He doesn’t have any issue with that. I am not defending Catholicism, I am simply defending them against false accusations when I see them arise. They are not perfect and neither is the church you go to. By the way, what church do you attend?

        • Edwitness

          The pope, even though I know he did say more than once that Muslims worship the same God that Catholics do, did not have to say it for it to be Catholic dogma. Because the catechism of the Catholic religion says it. Here it is;
          841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, AND TOGETHER WITH US they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
          So you spout on about how he didn’t say this and that if you want to. But, the words in the catechism make it so no other confirmation is necessary.

          • George

            Edwitness… Okay… so I am not accused of twisting words: First of all, anything the Pope says that is NOT part of the teachings is nothing more than a man’s comment or opinion and doesn’t mean squat. The Pope is not God, nor does he speak for God when he talks. You MUST recognizance this much (yes, the world puts WAY too much authority on his position that he does not have).

            Now, as for the teaching you posted, 841. One, it is not the bible and the bible supersedes it and they cannot contradict. Two, on the surface it can look to appear as you say, however (this is where I would be accused of twisting), the Catholic church is very clear on the path of Salvation being based on the acceptance of Christ as Savoir, so based on your view, this would be contradicting so you must be interpreting it wrong. It says, “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator”. Who is the Creator? God. If you accept the Trinity as the church does, in it’s definition, then Jesus is also considered the Creator, yes? Therefore the Muslim must acknowledge that. Do they? No. But if they did, Salvation could include them. If they don’t then the rest doesn’t matter, if they do it does. Many Muslims have converted as have many Jews. Jews still consider themselves Jewish even though by our definition they are Christians by faith. I don’t know if converted Muslims would still consider themselves Muslim.

            Last of all, the Pope doesn’t make the rules, he along with others have councils to decide what direction to take. He just has the last word. Are they perfect? Of course not. Can they word something poorly? Of course they can. Can they make mistakes? Of course, just like every single Christian church does. Many Christian churches make rules that, to me, do not conform to the bible, does that make them a cult? If so, a great portion of the Protestant churches are cults then. The have woman as priests, they promote homosexuality, the list goes on and on. You still haven’t told me what church you attend.

          • skywatcher

            Edwitness, even the pope is so far deluded that he doesn’t know how to tell the truth nor does he know much about IslamE (“E” intended)! They do NOT worship the God of Abraham as he deceptively declares! They worship Allah, the moon god = Ba’al, and he KNOWS IT! One of a mere 360 gods that they had to choose from! Like us, who sometimes get the days of the week mixed up, from one day to the next, some of them couldn’t remember which god they were supposed to worship, as there was one for EVERY day! Man! I’d be mighty heated under the collar if I was the right God, and they didn’t choose me! He is.

            The head clerics got together to decide which god they should impose upon the people as the “right” one! Oh my! I’m so glad that our Father told Abraham that He is the one and only true God! Less confusing that way, and far more easier to please one, than 360! In fact, some of us even have trouble in our attempts to please Him, with Christ in our lives and much less without!

            God so lovingly and willingly stepped out of His way to make Himself known to us, so we could know for sure whom we are worshipping and serving! Awesome! Time to find a living horse to ride, Ed, this one’s been dead in sins and trespasses for quite some time, from the sounds of it. He’s toying with you…you’re not making any distance with him. He just wants to argue and to waste your time. I couldn’t care less as to what he has to say to that comment. God has his number, and I’m anxiously awaiting the day I stand before the Reward Seat (Bema) of Christ! He cleared the way for me, that I might go free…justified, just as though I had never sinned! My blessed Lord paid my penalty in full!

        • Edwitness

          Wow! You said all that and all it takes to refute it is to say what ‘works’ are. We know works are something WE DO, and NOT GOD.
          In baptism God does have a part. But, WE DO THE ACTION, NOT GOD. We walk into the water. We go under the water. We come up out of the water. In short, WE DO THE WORK.
          Not to mention that baptism is NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION. Eph.2:8,9 Rom.4:1-6
          In faith GOD DOES THE ACTION, NOT US. He gifts to us the faith for believing. He gifts to us the salvation. In short, GOD DOES THE WORK.

          Anyone that believes that baptism is necessary for salvation believes that salvation is by works.

        • Edwitness

          The over 100 anathemas Catholic’s use to condemn true Christians to hell, that embody the cause of all of those executions, have never been rescinded.

        • Edwitness

          I have not disrespected you in any way, unless you have so connected yourself to Catholicism, that there is no difference between you and it. It is true I have nothing but contempt for Catholicism. But, I never see the person in the same way I see the doctrine. Jesus died for the person. But, He hates idols. I agree with Jesus. I hate idols too.

        • Edwitness

          That is my point. Any conversation regarding salvation and it’s requirements always “include accepting Jesus in their hearts for salvation” for Catholic’s. But for Christians salvation is based solely on faith in Jesus “including” nothing.

        • Edwitness

          When a man converts to Christianity he is no longer known by whatever religion he professed before. He is a Christian. And you left out (very conveniently) the most damning part of the catechism. It says, “…these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
          ‘These’ who? ‘These’ Muslims that’s who.
          ‘Together with’ who? ‘Together with’ Catholic’s that’s who.
          ‘They’ who? Muslims that’s who ‘they’ are.
          ‘Adore’ who? The God that Catholic’s ‘adore’ that’s who.

          And of course Catholic dogma contradicts itself. All liars eventually do that. That’s how they always get caught.
          I am not calling you a liar. I do know however by our discussion that you have been deceived. If you really believe in faith alone for salvation then you are unequally yoking yourself together with unbelievers when you take a position in that abomination. Light has no fellowship with darkness.

        • Edwitness

          It is true that we can misinterpret the scripture. But, not necassarily because it is difficult to understand. It is most often because we inject into the scripture our pre-conceived ideas. Things we might have been told by someone we thought should know what he is talking about. In doing this, we break the rules of interpretation we know as hermeneutics. Context,context,context. This holds in any area of study, but should be especially adhered to in theology, because of it’s greater importance as it concerns an individuals eternal future.

          The other, and more important ingredient, is the leading of the Holy Spirit. This will insure our right understanding and interpretation. The case in point being the idea that when the scripture says he rules over all kindreds, tongues, and nations, and that he thought it was referring to Jerusalem alone, is not difficult to shoot down from the context alone. So in this instance at least, he was parroting what he had been told. And not reading and interpreting for himself what the scripture plainly says.

          And if you have read what Geoffrey wrote in his recent article about “the queen of heaven”, you would see that Catholic’s are guilty of the same error. They believe what they are told by some man instead of studying it for themselves and trusting the Holy Spirit to reveal it to them.

          • George

            I totally agree with the context comment. I am and have always been a studious worker when it comes to context. As I have said, I have been in many churches and I don’t worship any of them. I go where the HS sends me and do the work he has me do. It doesn’t matter if the RCC is evil as I believe all “churches” i.e. denominations are evil as well in their own ways. What matters is I do and teach what the bible says. I have not been questioned with my methods and in fact have just been ask to teach teens confirmation! All this within a year and a half of being in this particular church! I know when the HS is leading me and I do what the HS tells me to do. What do you think I will be teaching them? That they better learn what it means to have Jesus in their heart and fully dedicated to worshiping him as the Son of God and highly recommending they read the bible and be studious little workers.

        • Edwitness

          I did not say he wasn’t saved because he believed in the preterist view. I just said he was obviously wrong. And that what I presented to him was not Catholic, it was Bible.

          But you know as well as I do, that Catholic’s worship Mary, pray to the dead, bow to idols, teach doctrines of Devils, buy forgiveness, work for salvation,…….All of which are disqualifications from heaven.

          • George

            I never said you judged anyone’s Salvation, especially because of their view. In your opinion he is wrong. In my opinion he is wrong. However, they are only OUR opinions. Catholic’s do NOT worship Mary. I have not seen one person worship Mary and I have found zero teachings in their teachings of worshiping Mary. I understand that is your opinion based on what you have read. It is my opinion that what you claim is not true. What do you define as worship? One definition of worship is “the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.” No one I know of thinks Mary is a deity. No one thinks she can do anything for them like God/Jesus can. Just praying to someone, anyone is not the same thing as recognizing them as a deity. Is it a waste of their time to pray to the Saints and to Mary? Perhaps, but I’ve not seen anything in the bible that says you CAN’T pray to them. I personally don’t. I pray to God through Jesus and that is what I teach. Do I teach it is wrong? I teach that she is not God nor is she a deity. As for your claims that what they do disqualifies them from going to heaven is way off base and NOT biblical at all. Jesus said all but blasphemy is forgivable or other wise rejecting Jesus. Blasphemy signifies the speaking evil of God, not doing something stupid or even wrong.

        • Edwitness

          It is great that you would tell them to read their Bibles and to worship Jesus. But, will you also be warning them of the fact that they are in the harlot church? And that they will go to hell if they believe her doctrines of Devils for salvation? That the Eucharist is an idol that is demonic? That there is no purgatory where you can accomplish the suffering that Jesus fell short of?

          If not, you are as big a hypocrite and heretic as the rest of those who teach in the Catholic religion.

          • George

            Do I warn them that the RCC has problems? Should I warn every church goer that there is something wrong with their church? I’ve found not one church/denomination worthy, not one. A harlot? That is your opinion based on how YOU interpret the bible. Not everyone feels the same way and I am talking about non RCs. I respect your right to think that. And again, your claims of who will go to hell are way off base. It is not your place to judge that aspect of their walk and based on your statement, I am beginning to doubt your ability to interpret even easy concepts of Salvation. Your opinion that the Eucharist is an idol is your opinion and I could not disagree more. Why would Jesus and the early church in Acts put so much emphasis on it? I was highly critical when I saw many Protestant churches drop the practice to almost once a month. That to me is even worse. And I’ve already discussed purgatory so you will have to go back and read what I said.

      • Ben

        Any Surprise that Kenneth Copeland ministries in BC Canada told my sibling sister it was OK for her keep her catholic statues and pictures of jesus & mary, her house is loaded with them, and Rosary beads, and prays to dead relatives.

        And her dead relatives visit her and talk to her. Copeland Ministries is clueless, the Pastors could not spot a familliar spirit, from the nose on their face.

        It must be the Rhema training program or the Jerry Savelle one, that is giving out the honorary Bible school certificates.

  • Pingback: Vatican Announces Today Pope Francis Will Attend 500th Anniv Of Protestant Reformation Ceremony |()

  • Skywatcher

    This is what we can expect from pastors and teachers who are self-taught and have formal training in Church History, Ecclesiology, or Eschatology! If they don’t know their Church History, which they obviously don’t then they have no idea what they have really done! They have no idea that they have just undone all that the martyrs of times past died to accomplish: the break away from the Hellish heresies of Rome!

    This is bittersweet, in that people who profess to be “Spirit-filled Christians” have been so easily duped by the Kundalini and other spirits! The sweet part is that it is heralding in the soon-coming Messiah, who will be the only One to clean up this mess!


    • Edwitness

      You are very welcome Skywatcher. And thank you for the kind words and most of all, your fellowship.

    • Edwitness

      What an awesome thing to say! I also can’t wait to see my family in heaven. You sure do know how to turn a phrase. St. Paul crtainly would be the first one to demolish their tombs full of dead men’s bones.
      And did you know that Mother Theresa actually believed those she lived with in India were better off that way. She believed that they were paving their way into heaven by their suffering here on earth. I suppose she lived with them for the same reason. She also said that they did not need Jesus because they were sincere in their own beliefs. Blasphemy!
      How sad. All of the money that abominable religion has and they are unwilling to help those people out of their squalor. She truly is the woman who has made herself drunken with the blood of the saints and the martyrs.

      • Skywatcher

        Good morning, Brother Edwitness and all!

        Thank you, for the compliment! God gives me the words and I type them. Having said that, I owe Him and the readership a HUGE apology! The comment that you are responding to at present is missing a VERY IMPORTANT key word!

        I said, “This is what we can expect from pastors and teachers who are self-taught and have formal training in Church History, Ecclesiology, or Eschatology!” It should’ve read, “…have NO formal training in…”

        I’ll be mighty glad when Geoffrey gets an “Edit” button in from China or Pakistan soon! 🙂

        There’s no doubt that Mother Theresa was a wonderful person, by the world’s standards. Without Christ as her own personal Savior and Lord, according to God’s Word, that’s all she was. I guess that’s why Jesus said,

        “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” Mt. 7: 13, 14.

        Look at the works she did without Jesus; IMAGINE what more she could’ve done with Him! In that same chapter, vs. 21-23 Christ specifically addresses people such as this highly revered woman:

        “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in they name have cast out devils? and in they name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

        I truly hope this is not the case for this woman, but I’m afraid it may be, seeing she said people can basically get to heaven on their own merits, which is in direct opposition to the Word, in Ephesians 2: 8,9:

        “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

        2 Tim. 1: 9, further addresses this false belief, “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.”

        Again, Paul addresses this when writing to Titus, 3: 5-7, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour, That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”

        Then, we see so many people who stand up in defence of their misplaced faith… strong, staunch, and stubborn to acknowledge God’s requirements… a simple faith in and an acceptance of Christ, and the supreme sacrifice He made upon that old cruel rugged cross. “wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction”.

        It really burdens me, Ed, to see how quickly these people read “hatred”, “malice”, and “intolerance” into our words that come from truly concerned and compassionate hearts FOR THEM. Satan has a tremendous grip and he won’t let them go, and they give him the blessing to tighten the stranglehold every time they ignore God’s Words of encouragement and admonition.

        “Whoso is wise, and will observe these things, even they shall understand the loving-kindness of the LORD.” Psa. 107: 43. That whole Psalm is a tremendous blessing!

        We certainly have many to pray for, don’t we! I believe we have lots to do before Jesus comes to call us home!

        Keep up the great work, my brother and all! “Through God we shall do valiantly: for he it is that shall tread down our enemies.”

    • Edwitness

      Yes Skywatcher,
      There are many similarities today to the message in your comment. Many pastors, ‘protestant’ and otherwise, get their instructions directly from Rome. The other thing I noticed was what Wycliffe did to aid in the proclaiming of the gospel. He would be greatly disappointed with those who have taken up his banner today, however.
      Wycliffe Bible Translators is the world’s largest Bible translation organization. Wycliffe has been involved in the translation of more than 740 New Testaments and Bibles. Currently Wycliffe is involved in more than 1,000 translation projects.
      But, they have gone too far in this. Wycliffe is doing translations for the Muslim world that instead of referring to Jesus as the Son of God, refer to him as God’s ‘uniquely intimate beloved Chosen one.’ This imposes a cultural interpretation that obscures and even denies the Bible’s clear teaching of the deity of Jesus Christ, and His position as the Second Person of the Trinity.
      Geoffrey also has done a post concerning this issue back in Jan. 2012.
      We really are in days much like those you shared with us. Thank you Skywatcher for the reminder.
      Come quickly Lord Jesus.

    • Edwitness

      I think where Catholics get the idea that Muslims worship the same God as Catholic’s do is from Islam’s “veneration” of Mary. Catholic dogma puts Mary on the same level, some would say higher, as Jesus.
      They pray to her.
      They believe that she answers their prayers.
      They call her advocate in their prayers to her.
      They say she is their salvation.
      They call her name great. Etc…
      So it would naturally follow that if Mary is held in a similar regard in Islam as she is in Catholicism, that they would be connecting with the same God. How twisted is that!

  • dean

    The Protestant denominations have become just as apostate as the Roman Catholic Church and even worse in some aspects including performing same sex marriages and ordaining homosexuals. I’ve seen some funny things going on even in Southern Baptist churches including teaching to give up something for Lent and had a pastor say he wanted to be our “father” in the faith. I suspect the Southern Baptist Convention is already in the hands of Rome what with the SBC coming out in favor of illegal amnesty and Saddleback Church still included among its rolls. Former Bible believing churches are becoming increasingly nothing more than rock concerts with colored smoke and merchandise counters. I’ve been to church services that consisted of little more than parishioners walking down the aisles with Christmas decorations to hang on the walls and trees. I think most church growth is not coming from conversions but people leaving other churches for more biblically sound ones or tares looking for something more flashy and entertaining to attend.

  • paulCF

    The pope is putting the silly back in reconciliation.

  • Johannes

    Dear Geoffrey,

    If you keep sunday and celebrate christmas and easter, you’re still a Catholic. Catholic simply means commen. And you are a Baptist Protesting Catholic. But you still adhere to the foundations of the Catholic Church and religion. Want to really challenge yourself and your faith? Research where sunday or these feasts come from. I wish you an open mind for this.

    Peace brother.

    • Tonni

      Hello G.Grider thanks to your articles but you beware because your oppositiong to the world.the satanic so target to murder you.i love you in christ as my saviour and my lord, a litle from believer from indonesia.

    • dean

      Let me guess, another cult member of the Church of Our Lady of the False Prophecies, Ellen White?

    • Skywatcher

      Johannes, I’m afraid you’re absolutely correct, no matter how we try to mask it. The Resurrection proves it! The serious time marker that we have is when Mary went to the tomb on the “first day of the week” (Sunday, as we call it), and found the tomb empty. Christ could not have been buried on “Good Friday” and raised Sunday morning. That would not make it three days or three nights, as was equated to Jonah’s being in the belly of the whale.

      In Jesus’ day, a day was from dawn to sunset. So, if He was buried at late afternoon or early evening on Good Friday, He would still be in the grave on Sunday evening which would NOT get Him to the three day mark… He would have had to have been buried on Maundi Thursday, the day before. Sometimes, we Christians are too quick to swallow “truths” that really aren’t that true at all.

      • Edwitness

        I agree with that Skywatcher. Thanks for the refresher.

  • Heather

    The people in the picture above worshipping, (as Skywatcher calls him) the sock puppet. I almost can’t tell if this picture was photo shopped or not, since in the US people were discustingly falling all over him in a frenzy the same way. He’s not going to dissappear from the scene. He’s seems to be picking up strength as he goes along, urgently bringing the harlots together under the great Mother of Harlots and the abominations of the earth!

  • David Kaus

    Martin Luther is turning over in his grave, along with Melancthon, Zwingli, Fredrick the Wise, French Huguenots, Calvin, Wycliffe, Tyndale, and about 50 million martyrs who gave their lives in taking a stand for Jesus Christ, and the Gospel against popery, and all of Rome’s heresies, corrupt immoral practices, and ruthless, murderous tyranny.

    • Skywatcher

      David, you said a healthy heapin’ mouthful of truth there! It’s a good thing they cannot see what’s going on down here, or they’d be fighting with God to come back to clear up the mess themselves!

      • David Kaus

        Hello Skywatcher. It is simply another spirit working in them, deciding what is right and wrong by an intrepretation of Scripture according to their flawed doctrines.

        To say that Luther and the Reformation has no relavance to a discussion about Roman Catholicism is an absolute absurity. We are seeing a living apostasy being revealed here that has gone out from among us because they were never of us.

        • Skywatcher

          David, you’re so right! It is sad to see George defending so vehemently and courageously, that which he knows is not of God. Very sad. Wrong interpretations come as a result of NOT having God’s Holy Spirit from within, as I stated to George already. It’s just that simple.

  • George

    Wow, I teach Catholicism and I don’t teach what this article implies. Believing in God and accepting Jesus as your Savoir is it. No where do I see you have to do anything else special. Yes, they have their rituals that they do, not unlike any protestant church does. I have been a Baptist, Methodist, been to almost every single denominational church and many non-doms and have yet to find one single church that isn’t doing something that is not in the bible. Look at the church in Acts and you won’t find a single church that is doing what they were doing. Not one. As for the other accusations, I used to feel the same way until I came full circle over 40 years (I left the Catholic church when I was 15). After having thoroughly studied the bible and other religions, teaching bible classes in protestant churches and then coming back to the Catholic church through my wife, I discovered that I was looking at the teachings from “my” point of view rather than examining why they do what they do. Using a rosary is nothing but a tool to help someone pray but certainly is not a requirement. Confessing sins to each other IS in the bible, so confessing to a priest isn’t out of the question, but confessing to God is done many times at each Mass and is part of preparing oneself to receive communion. Communion, there is something protestant churches have all but stop doing all together. Many churches on do what Christ said to do in his memory once per month and you if miss church that day, oh well. I could go on, but I think this whole thing is rather hypocritical.

  • Tonni

    Hallo Em
    Hello G.Grider thanks to your articles but you beware because your oppositiong to the world.the satanic so target to murder you.i love you in christ as my saviour and my lord, a litle from believer from indonesia.

  • Garrett

    What does the bible say about calling someone father? Jesus says don’t for our Father is in heaven. The pope is called the holy father and does not rebuke them for doing so. Why do you pray to Mary, saints and angels? In the book of revelation what does the angel say to John after John bows down to him? Why does the Catholic Church say you can pray people out of purgatory and in the past they said you could buy people out of purgatory, just give them your money.

    What does Jesus say? Love The Lord your God with all your soul, heart and might. Love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus is the way the truth and the life. Break away from religion and focus, obey and trust in Jesus

    • Skywatcher

      Garrett, you preach it, brother! If a dear Catholic soul asks his priest to show them those things in the Bible, he declares them a “Protestant” (heretic) and walks away from them! Not much of God’s love in that! It’s a them against us at that point! The Protestant Reformation is ringing in for part 2.

    • George

      I agree with that and I personally won’t call a priest Father, but I understand why they do that. They see the priest as an extension of God that when they address him they are addressing God. Meh, I don’t buy it myself, but I see just as much wrong doing in protestant churches. I had a Baptist preacher rail against homosexuality and at the end pat his large glutton belly and talk about the luncheon after service and “You know how I like fried chicken! You better get some before I get it!” Show me a church that is perfect and I will show you heaven because you sure are not going to find it here on Earth. Since you mention Revelation, what does it say in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of “golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.”? Where did those prayers come from? On the other side of the coin, where does the bible say that praying to the saints or even Mary to intersede for us prohibited? Since the practice of asking others to pray for us is so highly recommended in Scripture, it cannot be regarded as superfluous on the grounds that one can go directly to Jesus.

      • Heather

        1 Timothy 2:5 (All verses KJV)

        5 For there is one God, and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

        Deuteronomy 18:10-12

        10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth
        divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
        11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
        12 For all that do these things are an ABOMINATION unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

        1 Chronicles 10:13-14

        13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;
        14 And enquired NOT of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.

        Isaiah 8:19

        19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

        John 14:6

        6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

        • George

          In Matthew 16 Jesus tells Peter “And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

          Again while addressing the apostles He says, “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Just before that He explains the importance of their responsibility of what they do and the decisions they make and how it will come back on them if they harm or cause to stumble any of those who are coming to the Lord.

          All of this Jesus was instructing the apostles, not the people or the crowds, but the apostles alone. So, what does it mean when he gives them permission to bind and loose on earth? It means whatever righteous decision they make, heaven is backing them up.

          Again, if the bible was easy to interpret, we would all be agreeing with the same thing, but we aren’t. God knows what is in our hearts. There is but ONE mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus! But now explain to me what YOU can bind and loose on earth that will be agreed upon in heaven.

      • Edwitness

        It is prohibited in Deut.18:11-13. Necromancy, talking to someone who is no longer alive on earth, is an abomination to God.

        • George

          Edwitness… one, I am not head or bound to Jewish Law as I have a High Priest I can go to in Jesus. Two, your Old Testament quote is out of context to the conversation. Sorry.

          Matthew 18:10 See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

          What does that mean? What is the purpose of this that God designed? This is often taken as a reference to “guardian angels.” We certainly do have angels watching over us and ministering to us (Hebrews 1:14) Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? So angels can and do have contact with us. I could on, but to what point, you are set in your ways.

    • George

      Most of this is not true and the rest is out of context. But that is to be expected from anti-Catholic persons.

    • George

      My reply “Most of this is not true and the rest is out of context. But that is to be expected from anti-Catholic persons.” was to Garrett.

    • Pope Pious

      Garrett, don’t bother wasting your time on George! He twists every Scripture that has been presented to him. He has a rebellious spirit and an agenda. He’s probably one of the Rick Warren or Kenneth Copeland clan…deceived and lost. No matter what God’s Word says, he thinks he cleverly sidesteps it, but God is still waiting for him on the other end. He erroneously believes we hate R. Catholics, but we don’t. We despise the unholy and evil institution they have been deceived by.

      Garrett, your points were ALL valid and indisputable! You stick to your guns and stay the course! You won’t be sorry you did!

      • George

        Pious… I don’t twist anything. Who died and left you in charge of interpretation? You are another one of those who say evil things and lay false accusations. I follow no one but Jesus. Certainly no humans claiming to be of God. I know nothing of Warren or Copeland as I’ve never see them other than in news clips. They mean nothing to me. I only use scripture to back up what I say. Same scripture you use. I never said anything about you hating anyone and I hope you don’t. I do think you are very good at being disrespectful. You can despise whatever institution you like, but stop judging me and others while you heap your ashes on them. And likewise, your day of judgement is on the schedule, as well.

  • George

    Not sure where you are getting this punishment or suffering idea from, but this is what I teach from the book of Catechism [comments in brackets are mine]:

    “All who die in grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation, but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. [This in in reference to the Judgement Seat of Christ]

    The church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned [the final judgement Christian will not see]. The Church formulated this doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent…”

    If you have some official documentation that says different (not what you read from some website against the church) I’d love to see it. Please give me your references of this purgatory punishment.

    Nothing in there about anyone getting punished except for those who don’t go to the Judgement Seat of Christ. Obviously, you will have to go back and look at the historical writings about the Councils of Florence (1439) and Trent (1545) to learn more.

    • Edwitness

      Here is another one. The last ones came from the website, Catholic answers, a Catholic website.
      This also comes from Catholic Answers. What is in the box at the top of the page is

      IN THE COMPLETE IDIOT’S GUIDE TO: The Lives of the Saints, written by Paul L. Williams, who has a Ph.D. in historical theology for Drew University. He served as professor of Catholic theology and patristics at the University of Scranton and Wilkes University. In Chapter 3 (Where the Rest of the Poor Souls Go: Purgatory, Limbo, and Hell, he writes in the first paragraph on page 21 that:
      “Being sent to the middle realm is not so bad. After all, you know that someday-usually after thousands of years-you will be allowed to Heaven, to see God, and to live among the saints in everlasting happiness. The sure and certain hope of Heaven is before you.

      But purgatory is a place of unspeakable suffering. It is a place where you will be punished for your sins until you are purified. How do you purify a soul? How do you cleanse it of all impurities? That’s simple. You put it in the purifying fire until it is sterilized.”

      Then, on the “Hagar the Hagiographer” box, it said “St. Bonaventure said that the punishment of souls in purgatory is much more severe than any punishment that can be given to someone on earth.”

      I don’t know about you George, but I would say that these quotes, along with those I gave you from the catechism, make the fact that you will be punished and suffer in purgatory, an absolute surety. That is if you believe in the fictitious place Catholics call purgatory.

      • George

        Edwitness… here you go again, quoting someone’s opinion of what they think. You will not find the word Purgatory in the bible but you will find that those who are saved will suffer for their “bad” at the Judgement Seat of Christ as I showed you before. So whatever anyone else claims of it is their own opinion, especially if they are not using the bible as reference, which I do. I told you before the official teachings do not say any of this.

        As for praying for the dead, there are Jewish Rabbinical writings that refer to this. It existed. We know that praying for the unsaved is a waste of time, so why bother praying for those who die? Good question. Did Paul do it? Some say yes. Here is the example:

        In 2 Timothy 1:16 , there is a form of prayer on behalf of the family of Onesiphorus. Subsequently, in verse 18, the apostle prays for Onesiphorus himself. He petitions the Lord that this brother might “find mercy” in “that day,” which obviously is the day of Judgment.

        Because the verbs regarding the brother are all in the past tense, and since only his family is alluded to later in 4:19, some have assumed that Onesiphorus was dead. The latter argues that this reflects a New Testament example of prayer on behalf of the dead. It is also contended that the apocryphal 2 Maccabees (12:44-45) would allow an orthodox Jew to pray for the dead. I realize that most do not recognize Maccabees as a Conical text (even though it was for many centuries), it is nonetheless recognized as authentic and can be used to present proof that the Jews did indeed pray for the dead. You don’t have to accept that, but because Jesus never taught against it, nor does the New Testament, you cannot say it is against God, but I am fine with anyone who decides for themselves that it is a waste of time. There is also a great question of how long it takes for a person to be considered dead “and gone” based on personal testimonies of those who “died on the operating table” and were brought back, and their various testimonies of having been in heaven. Even Paul and Timothy relates to this in 2 Corinthians 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.

        Therefore, since we can and do pray for those obviously alive, can we not also pray for those who just left us? I see no harm in this and certainly do not see it being prohibited.

        • Edwitness

          Please read Geoffrey’s article about “the queen of heaven”. If you still believe that Catholic’s do not worship Mary then you are deceived. And probably lost!

          • George

            Concerning the Queen of Heaven, the first mistake Geoffrey makes is in citing Jeremiah 7:18. From Matthew Henry: “Their idolatrous respects are paid to the queen of heaven, the moon, either in an image or in the original, or both. They worshiped it probably under the name of Ashtaroth, or some other of their goddesses, being in love with the brightness in which they saw the moon walk, and thinking themselves indebted to her for her benign influences or fearing her malignant ones. The worshiping of the moon was much in use among the heathen nations.” This has zero to do with Mary. It was a sermon from God about their idolatrous living at the time.

            First off, this is “worshiping” because they considered Ashtaroth to be a god. No one thinks Mary is a god. There is only one place in the teachings (Catechism of the Catholic Church) that calls Mary the “Queen over everything”:

            966 “Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed [comply with rules, standards, or laws] to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death.” [My words in brackets]

            “Queen over all things” was simply a way of honoring her for what she did. It is like calling John the Baptist, the Baptist. It goes on to describe her place being born Immaculate, which means “free from sin” which no other full human (except maybe Adam and Eve) ever was or was thereafter. That makes her pretty special if you ask me. Surely you must agree that Mary was a special human, and played a large part in the events, yes? Finally, it describes her as “…the Virgin Mary is the Church’s model of faith and charity.” Not a god, not a deity, just a “MODEL” of faith and charity. No where in the teachings does the RCC make her out to be anything more than that.

            Geoffrey goes on to say, he “…had been taught to to pray to [Mary] and to seek salvation from all my life”. That’s BS and in his mind. No where is the teachings does anything state that one should pray to Mary for Salvation. That’s crap. He was either mistaken or is lying. Note, he also said, “to pray to [Mary] and to seek Salvation”. That does not say, pray to Mary FOR Salvation, BIG DIFFERENCE. Geoffrey goes on to say he was trained to tell scoffers that they only venerate her out of respect, “But for those of us on the “inside”, we knew different.” More BS. That was his opinion and it doesn’t jive with those I know. From reading this piece it is obvious that Geoffrey is a great spin doctor, and those like you lap it up without question.

            His little prayer of perpetual help? Never saw or heard it before. It is not in the Catechism of the Catholic Church that I have. It originated over a painting from 1495. The church approves of a lot of silly little prayers that amount to nothing. It is not taught today and I certainly won’t be teaching it to the teens in confirmation classes I teach. Geoffrey was obviously confirmed back in the 60’s, probably before Vatican II by a bunch of hard cased nuns with wooden rulers, lol. You have an obscured, if not absurd, perspective of the RCC tainted by what you read.

            Lastly, Geoffrey uses the opinionated base of Babylon to be the RCC. That is simply one of many interpretations. Go do some research and you will find many different takes on it. There are Preterist interpretations, Historicist and idealistic interpretations, Reformation views, and more. Some think it is a city, some think it is America, some the RCC, some think it is the Middle East rising up again (many Christians are getting out due to ISIS), some think it’s the port city of Dubai. The list is endless and they certainly don’t all agree. Here are some non Catholic examples of the trouble in interpreting Babylon:

            **Revelation 17 and 18 are two of the most intriguing chapters of the Bible, yet two of the most difficult and disputed. … these are two of the most difficult chapters of Revelation to interpret and expositors vary widely in their understanding of this section of the book.

            **She likely symbolizes Sin and also represents an empire in the real world of the time, with similarities to the Roman or Egyptian empires of the past, including having great MILITARY strength and the use of slavery in the construction of the empire.

            **It is the contention of the futuristic school of interpretation that in context the fall of Babylon is directly related to an eschatological setting. Certain passages relate the fall of Babylon to the Day of the Lord and to the Millennial Kingdom.

            So what makes Geoffrey the expert? Could those who claim it is the RCC be correct? Maybe and maybe not, we really don’t know. At best, after reading this, if you don’t agree that we are only guessing and assuming who or what future Babylon is, you are delusional or hard headed.

          • George

            Geoffrey is only one person and he already loss credibility on other claims he has made with his interpretations of Scripture. What you are taught and what is truth is two different things. I have already shown how that occurs in other denominations as well. Church of Christ is a prime example. I have already established that ALL churches/denominations are lacking, not just the RCC. To date, you have refused to state what church/denomination you attend. Why? Are you ashamed or are you sure I will post the same sort of failings it has? You are not dealing with someone who is just blindly walking along in life. I do have the Holy Spirit leading me and I am confident in Jesus showing me the way I need to go. In the end, we are responsible for ourselves first, and then to others in our beliefs.

            ““Silly prayers that amount to nothing.”? WOW! When is the last time you prayed a silly prayer that amounted to nothing? For me the answer is NEVER!”

            Don’t take my words out of context. Children say silly little prayers, but God will hear them. He will hear those who pray for forgiveness and he will understand what is in their hearts, even if they have been mislead. Our God is a merciful God, not one of damning.

            I already told you that that prayer of “Our lady…” is not one that is taught. In fact, I don’t teach any other prayer other than the “Our Father…” that Jesus said to pray. But you want to come back to Our lady prayers…, why? Because it is what you have been told to do.

            Explain to me Acts 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” Your household? What does that mean? How can you possibly help your household if Mary cannot help? What does “thy name is the help of the living and the salvation of the dying” even mean? They are praying for those who are not dead. They are people who are showing care for others. That is called charity. Do you not pray for others? Does God not hear your prayers? God DOES see that and he does take that into consideration. He’s God. He can do that.

            “The way that Catholic’s are taught to repeat over and over again the same prayers…” Are you not familiar with monks and prayers? Are you not familiar with those who dedicate their entire existence to God? You are woefully ignorant of the history of Christian worship. What is silly to you is not silly to God. Or are you better at understanding than Him?

            You may believe you are right in what you do, but that does not make you correct, it only makes you arrogant like the Pharisee. I do not make the same claim. I am but a fallible human bean who loves and worships the one true God, Lord Jesus Christ. I have showed you how your beliefs are on man’s word and not the Word of God and yet you refuse to back down. That is on you. I am not a liar, nor am I deceived by God’s Word. You are deceived by man’s word (Geoffrey). But before I go, will you tell me what church you attend? I will keep asking until you tell me.

          • George

            When I pray, like you, I pray to God and only God. Our salvation is not based on works, but on faith, and God hears our prayers. He loves a contrite heart, not one made by boasting. (Remember I said that) Is it wrong to think you can pray to someone in heaven to give assistance? It may not be proper, but God still hears it as he knows what you need before the words even leave your lips. Be careful what you do because we never know when we might be entertaining an angel (Hebrews 13). (Hmmm). He also hears the prayers they make directly to him. I mean, if they were taught that praying to Mary was the only way to God that would be totally wrong, but that is not taught at all. Like all Christian churches, they base their beliefs on how they interpret the bible (just like you and your church, whatever that is). You continue to refuse to tell me what church you attend. I find that very suspicious. If I told myself that I would not go to a church that did anything off color, I would not go to ANY church and in fact, that is exactly what I did for many years. I could not stand the hypocrisy anymore. But the HS has other plans for me.

            Now you continually argue with me against the things the RCC does. And I keep telling you I don’t believe in church, I believe in God. I live by faith and pray for the HS to lead me. Your arguments are not with me. You consider prayers to Mary as idolatrous and I respect your right to think that. I don’t agree with it because idol worship is not the same thing. I base this on the biblical definition of idol worship. I am not alone in this, so it’s simply is your opinion against others and doesn’t amount to anything. The repetitive prayers…

            As for repetitive prayer, or babbling (battalogeō as it is written in the Greek), you again are preaching to the choir, but also splitting hairs. Is it evil? No. It is a sin? No. Is it a waste of time? Perhaps. But again, you are complaining about a practice that has little meaning, good or bad. They still pray the Our Father. They still get on their knees alone in their hearts and pray just like you do. Does their repeating hail Marys discount or eliminate their earnest prayers? Of course not. Now the verses you point out say, “But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen…” Vain is key, and the word heathen is ethnikos which described Gentiles pagans of the day. Vain would describe meaningless words or chatter, not intelligible words with meaning. So once again, another case of interpretation, yours verses someone else. No, I don’t do it, but I don’t seen the harm as Jesus never commanded against it, nor does the bible label it as a sin.

            You claim I expose my Catholic beliefs. I find that so funny. I don’t have ANY Catholic beliefs. I told you, I believe in Jesus, not in a denomination. My faith is in God. I read his Word and do my best to understand it. And yet over and over you make the same accusation against me. Either you are not reading what I write, or you are one dense person. I cannot spell it out any clearer to you. Are you going to continue to avoid telling me what church you attend?

            As for Acts 16:31 I am not arguing with you as I also believe that one must come to Jesus on their own, BUT… not everyone in my house hold is going to be saved just because I am because quite frankly, one of them walked away from their faith they thought they had. So, the verse would be a waste of time to say according to your interpretations. A better logical explanation: “You and your household” seems to be a specific promise for that Philippian jailer. Paul was, under inspiration by the Holy Spirit, telling the keeper of the prison that his household would trust Jesus just as he did. That makes better sense, and proves my point which was even YOU failed to see that. And that exposes YOUR lack of understanding scripture in order to explain it plainly. So, don’t be so quick to remove planks from my eye.

            You boast, “Without question I believe I am right.” Paul warns against those who boast such things.

      • Skywatcher

        Brother EdWitness, you’re certainly slaying the vampires with silver bullets of their own making! I’ve been “quietly” reading the posts between yourself and George, and musing… “If that’s the best that the R.C. cult has to offer me,(Hellish states in inbetweenship), I guess I’ll just simply stick with Jesus Christ! He gets the job of purification done once and for all!

        Like the Mormons, they use the Bible as a smokescreen, but in practice, they use the tools of Satan. Imagine! Bones of dead people as talisman to aid in their great escape from these “cunningly devised fables”, as Apostle Paul would call them! It always comes back to the almighty dollar/mammon!

        Imagine once again! They hold St. Paul up with such veneration, naming their churches, etc. after HIM, and yet, he’d be the first to demolish these “tombs filled with dead men’s bones”, if he were permitted to rise from the grave and do a walkabout!

        I’ve come to the conclusion that if anybody professes to be a born again Christian who chooses to stay in this vile mess of rites, rituals, sacrifices, praying to the dead, bowing down to idols, making up doctrine as they go, etc., then they are only fooling themselves! God is not mocked! Gal. 6: 7. They will not be going to Heaven as they believe.

        One CAN NOT possess the Holy Spirit and feel comfortable staying in such an abominable and sinful place as that to worship! If He’s not convicting them of this, then they DON’T have Him or the Christ of the Bible! If they do not feel the urge to flee from that, then there is something seriously wrong!

        George says he has gone full circle and then come back to this filthy roost. If I were him, and truly born again, I’d prefer to stay at home and worship by myself, than to partake in that which is contrary to God’s Word.

        I also got to thinking, if this is the best that cult can offer, what is the point of having the virgin Mary and a host of other deadlings pray for ya? It appears to me, unless a person stinks of cash, they don’t have a hope in this religion! Speaking of cash…if that whorehouse (Ratican) had a real burden for souls, if would empty it’s trillions of dollars worth of treasures, sell it off, and give the money to the poor, JUST AS CHRIST SAID TO DO! If only more of those dear Catholic people would take a Selah (pause), and read the Bible for themselves! In no time at all, the Whore would be on her face, begging for mercy, and paying THEM to come back! She’ll be richer than ever with the Protestant peons that just crossed over to the dark side!

        You’re doing a great job, Edwitness! I praise the Lord, for allowing me to have brothers like you, Ron, Larry, Mike Au, Thomas,Jimmy, Geoffrey, David K, etc., and the sisters too! One of these glorious days, we’re going to have a meetin’, and I look forward to seeing you there! 😉 This whole mess of who’s right and who’s wrong will be dealt with once and for all…just like our sins! Praise His holy name!

        • George

          Skywatcher… aren’t you a ray of sunshine. Not. Crass is more like it and definitely not very Christ like. I am not vampire but a child of God and brother of Jesus. What am I since I am also a member of a protestant church? What am I since I have Jesus as my Salvation of whom I believe in with all my mind and strength? Who are you to judge me? Everything you have just posted is about as opposite as you can get when it comes to what Jesus taught and how the bible teaches Christians to treat others especially other Christians. I can assure you that the pews in your church have plenty of souls that will be surprised come their turn to stand before the Lord. I won’t judge you, but as a Christian I will tell you that your line of thinking about me and others like me is wrong. Your remarks comparing Mormons to Catholics is evidence you don’t know very much about either. I do. As a Christian, I have studied many religions in my walk so I would know how to do what Jesus commanded me to do, lead them to Christ. You seem only concerned with sending them to hell. Where does the bible teach you to do that? I’m not going to bother addressing the rest of your evil filled post, instead I am going to pray for you and hope you take some time to pray yourself for the Lord to teach you how to win souls for him instead of running them into the ground.

          • Skywatcher

            George, according to the Word of God, you’re NO brother of mine, as long as you’re hanging out in that pit of vipers, bowing down to idols (idolatry), praying to Mary (idolatry +), teaching heresy, etc.! Pal, I don’t judge you! The Word does: What part of Eph. 5: 5-11,16 do you not understand?

            “For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who IS AN IDOLATER, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6. Let NO man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8. For ye WERE sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9. (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10. Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11. And HAVE NO FELLOWSHIP with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 15. See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16. Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.”

            George, you need to get out of there while you still can! You’re in the midst of a bunch of very lovely people, no doubt. Very deceived and manipulated people, and I say that because I care for these and many more like them. I have concerns because your conscience isn’t pricked for staying there or for teaching the heresies of this cult. Until you leave that congregation, you’re a “partaker” and NOT a biblical Christian or child of God.

            I’m not a spring chicken, and I’ve studied all these faiths I speak of. Does that make me a know-it-all? Hardly, but what I do know, I know for sure! Apparently, you don’t, as you’re probably blending in a lot of world religion heresy in, helping the pope to fulfill his antichrist agenda.

            I have no trouble leading souls to Christ, and you needn’t worry about that! You need to get your heart right with God, obey Him, and wash the smell of smoke off yourself with the precious blood of Jesus Christ!

            You said, ” instead I am going to pray for you…” Don’t waste your time, Smokey! The truth hurts! If you don’t feel convicted by anything from the Word that Edwitness shared with you, and what I’ve stated, you’re half toast already! God loves you, I love you, and that’s the way it should be! Because I love you, I’m compelled to SCREAM, “Bridge out ahead, George!

            You said, “…the Lord to teach you how to win souls for him instead of running them into the ground.”

            George, I would never run you into the ground, but let’s get something straight…that evil entity headed by the Vatican is beneath the ground! The people are beautiful people as I have stated repeatedly, but they are STUPID! Did you get that? S-T-U-P-I-D! Because they do NOT read God’s Word on their own, and blindly follow after the blind leaders…falling into hell together! That is NOT God’s will, plan, or purpose for these people! You should be taking a stand for Jesus, just as vehemently as you are for the Ratican, by warning these people you teach, and leading them out of there and into the ark of safety, which is Christ!

          • Skywatcher

            George, did you see the note I wrote to Carlos, with the excerpts from Foxe’s Book of Martyrs? If so, did that sound like God’s love was truly being exhibited in those acts? That seems like the polar opposite of Christ’s statement in Jn. 15: 12, wouldn’t you say? The R.C. clergy did this to God’s faithful sons and daughters purely out of contempt and hatred for Christ, who convicted them of their sins. Christ said that would happen, “He that hateth me hateth my Father also.” Jn. 15: 23. That’s a pretty sad commentary for a global group of people who call themselves “christians”, wouldn’t you say?

          • George

            Sorry Skywatcher, I don’t read a lot of what you say. You spend too much time digging up other’s sins rather than dealing with what is happening today. You mustn’t forget that ALL churches have both saved and non saved, both evil and good, but most of all, they are solely inhabited by human beings. Many good people have been led astray by bad ideas, lies and conjecture. Time also changes many things and as mankind pushes forward, more and more bad things are brought into the light to be shown for what they are or were. The Catholic church is no different and neither are many Protestant churches that also committed grave sins. But when sin is brought in to the light there is no excuse that can hide it. Here you are pointing out the failings of others and ignoring your own to me. What did Jesus say about removing splinters from others? But I guess in your eyes I’m just a vampire to be shot with a silver bullet, right? As I said, I don’t read a lot of what you say. Perhaps if your comments weren’t so cold, off base and full of hate. Yea, hate. It’s not good for the soul.

          • Edwitness

            You may well believe what you are saying. But, Geoffrey was a Catholic for 30 years and believes that what he said is the truth about the Catholic worship of Mary. And as you have seen there are others here who were Catholics many years who were taught to believe the exact same thing.

            “Silly prayers that amount to nothing.”? WOW! When is the last time you prayed a silly prayer that amounted to nothing? For me the answer is NEVER!

            One of the prayers that Catholic’s are given to pray says that Mary IS “the salvation of the dying.” * Prayer to Our Lady of Perpetual Help: “O Mother of Perpetual Help, grant me ever to be able to call upon thy powerful name, since thy name is the help of the living and the salvation of the dying…..”
            The way that Catholic’s are taught to repeat over and over again the same prayers I can see why you would think they could be “silly little prayers that don’t mean nothing.” But, true Christians never think that way about talking with our Father. It always means a great deal to us.
            But, I guess since you all are praying to the dead it could be considered silly to you. I know it is to me.

            And I absolutely believe that the Roman religion is the harlot. The evidence is in Rev.17 & 18. The colors are Catholic. The bloody nature is her’s. And John’s statement about her being the one that was ruling over kings of the earth in 17:18. “And the woman which you saw IS that great city, which reigns(present tense) over the kings of the earth.”
            Unmistakeably the Roman harlot.

            That you would say that Geoffrey is lying is ridiculous. Everything he has related on the subject can be confirmed in the scriptures.

            I’m sorry George. But, you are either deceived or a liar. Or both.

          • Edwitness

            When I pray for someone, I am praying to God. Not to the person I am praying for. Prayer is always a form of worship. ALWAYS. Catholic’s pray to Mary. And definitely more often than Jesus. They worship Mary.

            The reason I refer to the prayers to Mary is they are the prayers that are idolatrous. ‘Our Father who art in heaven’ is not. Although, as Geoffrey said, Jesus was telling us how to pray. Not what to pray. Repetative prayers are unbiblical. It is a heathen practice and Jesus said so. So I could care less what the monks thought was the right way to pray. If their prayers are repetative they are praying as do the heathens. Mt.6:7,8
            You expose your Catholic beliefs by placing more emphasis on tradition than what scripture, and in this case, what Jesus says.

            Acts 16:31 is not saying that it was only necessary for him to believe and by that his household would also be saved. That would be a contradiction of the rest of the scriptures that teach that it must be a personal choice. We are each one of us responsible for our own sin. The passage is saying that believing on the Lord will save him and if the rest of them will believe it will also save his household. They would have to believe for themselves. God doesn’t have any grandkids.

            You have shown me no such thing. In fact, in your comment I am replying to now, you have exposed yourself as a Catholic who does what all Catholic’s do. You believe more in the Catholic traditions than in the word of God.

            Without question I believe I am right. I am also just a fallible man. But, I trust in the infallible word of God. Not the fallible traditions of men. How do I know it is infallible? Because it interprets itself and never, not even once, has it contradicted itself. Religious and unreligious alike have for centuries tried to prove it’s fallibility without ever finding even one thing that would confirm that for them.

          • Edwitness

            “If they were taught that praying to Mary was the only way to God that would be totally wrong.” See? This is exactly what I am talking about. You have actually accepted the fact that praying to Mary is ok. As long as she is not the only one you pray to. But, the Bible strongly disagrees with you. We read in scripture that Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. Mary or those that have died are not to be thought of as mediators. There is only one. 1stTim.2:5.

            Their prayers are not heard by God, not because they pray repetitively, but because they admit by their own doctrines, that they do not know the Lord. Praying to anyone but Jesus is an admission of this. Worship of Mary is another. And your interpretation is proven false by the very words Jesus said regarding why they say them repetitively. He said they do it that way because they think by saying it over and over again, that will make sure their prayers are heard. The fact that they were vain is because of their repetative nature.

            You must have misunderstood what I was saying then. He was not told that all of his house would be saved because he got saved. He was told that believing Would save him and it (believing) would also save his household.

            I would not tell you that what I say is true unless I believed I was right. If I did not think I was right I would not say it. You must be very prideful, because you keep trying to project that on me.

            Twice now you have shown me your Catholic thinking. Once in your statement I quoted at the start of this comment. And again where you said the monks praying repetitively was Godly. Are you sure you are not Catholic?

            PS I home fellowship.

          • George

            Are you a professional troll or just a part-timer? I say that because you like to put words in my mouth. You accuse me of accepting that praying to Mary is okay when I never said that at all and in fact said I do NOT do that. So, either you are trolling me or you’re ignorant. It boils down to your opinion because I have shown you that Jews did similar things and I attempted to educate you on what idol worshiping is (according to others, NOT the RCC). Yet you keep repeating the same things over and over. Wait… perhaps that is because you are home fellowshipping, basing your uneducated biased beliefs (and that of others) with some idea that you are smarter than scholars and highly biblically/religious educated people.

            How much have you studied of Jewish religious customs? I am willing to bet about zero. It shows in what you say. Your lack of clarity with simple scripture (as I proved with the Acts verse) shows you only THINK you know it all. Just reading the bible does not educate you to properly interpret it. Oh, you get the just of it, and get the main points, but you are still sucking milk my friend and have not eaten of the meat. You prove this by repeating the same accusations on each post as if being repetitive is going to win you some sort of prize.

            Just because you ‘think’ you are right does not make you right. That was silly to say. You claim I said, “… monks praying repetitively was Godly…” Please point that out for me. Show me the quote. YOU said, “So I could care less what the monks thought was the right way to pray”… yet you boast that what you are doing is the right way. That’s a bit hypocritical if you ask me. By the way, Prophet Elijah and John the Baptist, who both lived alone in the desert, were both inspirations to the early Christian monasticism movement.

            As for home churches, I can show you many cases where they go against what Paul described of how churches should be conducted (and I am not talking or defending the RCC). In many cases, they are no stronger than the usually uneducated leader and have a high risk of failure. Many will argue that home churches were common in the beginning. They were for several reasons. First, they hadn’t built a main church until they had enough resources and government permission to build them. Archaeologists have uncovered many 1st century Christian churches as proof. Next, because of having to hide from the authorities at the beginning, it was better to meet in homes in secret, much like the Christians in China do today. But Paul was clear is his letters of how churches were to be conducted, and they were not home churches. Now I am beginning to understand you better and why to say the things you do.

          • Skywatcher

            George, you’d lose your bets about me! I’m not wasting anymore of my valuable time with you; it’s a sin that Edwitness is doing that. The Wheel of Fortune is coming on! Of course, I’m being facetious in that “Wheel” comment! You get my point. I’m not going to bother dickering on you any more re: false doctrines, etc. You’re obviously “given over”, as Rom. 1 would say.

          • George

            Skywatcher… I wasn’t addressing you. It is sad to think your time is so valuable, but truly, I never asked you for your time. And now you accused Edwitness of sinning. Wow. I don’t get your points because you are not very good at presenting them. Paul says in Romans 1, “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.” I am not the one “…professing to be wise…”. Just you posting Romans 1 shows how you have judged me wrongly and misuse the Word of God to justify yourself. Jesus will judge me for he is righteous and just. Now that you are done wasting your valuable time with me, I say, go in peace.

          • Skywatcher

            George, you’re lying! You did address me! It came with my name in the first part of your comment, unless you did it by mistake. “Skywatcher… aren’t you a ray of sunshine. Not. Crass is more like it and definitely not very Christ like. I am not vampire but a child of God and brother of Jesus…”

            I didn’t accuse Edwitness of anything, as you’ve alleged. I would not do that.

            You said, “Wow. I don’t get your points because you are not very good at presenting them.”

            My my! Aren’t we the arrogant one! I will admit, I said, “Rom. 1” and then I got called away from my desk. When I came back, I forgot to finish the rest of the reference! My humble apologies! The verse I was referring to was v. 24. “…God gave them up…” I’m sorry if this caused you confusion and grief.
            I have “the peace of God which passes all human understanding” (Phil. 4: 7), whether you wish it upon me or not. Thanks anyway.

          • George

            Skywatcher… My most humble apology as well. Now it was my fault for not being clear. What I meant was, because of the way this site has us posting, Edwitness and I have been conversing back and forth under my first comment “Skywatcher… aren’t you a ray of sunshine.”

            If you will take note, under each name/post, there is not a “reply” icon to click on but only on the original post I made to you. Edwitness began posting to me under the same original post. I understand, and hope you do as well, of how that can be confusing. But in truth, I was addressing Edwitness previously, so I am sorry for the confusion. However, you did say and I quote, “I’m not wasting anymore of my valuable time with you; it’s a sin that Edwitness is doing that.” If that is not accusing Edwitness of sinning, I don’t know what it is.

            At any rate, now that we are clear (I hope), I bid you good day.

          • George

            As an added note, in the future I will be sure to head each post with the person’s name. Again, sorry for the confusion.

          • Skywatcher

            George, all is clear on this end! I see now, what was happening. Apology accepted! 🙂 I bid you a good day also. Carry on and pretend you’re normal; I do! 🙂

  • Carlos

    Protestants have a rebel spirit inveded in them, and I saw a third of the stars being wiped out by the tail of the dragon, the Stars aré the christians and a third of them left te true church. Till now protestants are a third of the christian world.

    • Edwitness

      The dragon is Satan and the child is Jesus. The third part of the stars that his tail “drew” and were “cast to the earth” is an event that happened before Jesus was born. That is why it’s only afterward that Satan “stood before the woman(Israel) which was ready to be delivered, for to devour the child (Jesus) as soon as it was born.” (Mt. 2:13-16) There were no “Protestants” in existence before Jesus was born. There weren’t even any Catholics.
      The “third part of the stars” are the Angels that went in the rebellion with Satan, Rev.12:4,7,9, before there was a woman or a child. Let alone “Protestants” that resulted from rejecting the harlot Catholic religion.
      You Catholics are a mess when it comes to understanding the scripture. You think everything, even things that happened before Jesus came, refers to Catholicism.
      But, Catholicism is depicted as a woman in the Bible. You can find her in Rev.17:3-6 & vs.16-18.

    • Skywatcher

      Carlos, it greatly saddens me to hear you say that we have a rebel spirit in us! As a born again, blood-bought, Christian, I’m very proud to possess that “rebel spirit”! He’s known as the Holy Spirit! He stirs His people up for action when the times and occasions warrant it. If it were not for Protestants of long ago, we wouldn’t have the beautiful Bible that we treasure so much today, nor the blessings that accompany it! You probably wouldn’t be alive right now!

      Many of these “rebels”, as you call us, have been mercilessly slaughtered, raped, pillaged, plundered, burned to the stake, eyes gouged out with hot burning pokers, children raped and brutalized in front of their parents and peers, tarred and feathered, pulled apart by two horses, etc. etc. Does this sound like something that you believe God Almighty, the God of Love, would want to do to you or your children? Does that sound like the God of the Holy Bible, particularly in the New Testament?

      The R. Catholic cult has inflicted horrors and tragedies upon the real children of God, because they were standing up for Jesus Christ! The people pulled away from this thing called “The Church” because they were sick and tired of the cunning, conniving, and controlling this evil entity was inflicting upon them! They were sick of the abuse! Just like today! The Vatican had to get them out of the way because they were “letting the cat out of the bag”! They were informing others about the evils of the Vatican.

      Buddy, if you’re a Roman Catholic, I plead with you…get away from that evil mess as fast as you can! You can see by the information that Edwitness has been sharing with George that this entity is NOT of God! It is anything but holy, and it has been financially raping its people for millennia! I don’t know where you get your percentages from as to the stars/Christians, but it’s not biblical or accurate. Be obedient to God’s Word and “Come out of her”! God says, “Be ye holy, for I, the Lord your God, am holy”! One cannot be holy and be involved in that den of iniquity! Lev. 20: 7; Eph. 1: 4; 5: 27.

      Carlos, you might want to study some early history on your “church” from sources (other than Catholic, because they hide the real “juicy parts” that would expose and condemn them). If you don’t have one now, do yourself a huge favor, go online to Amazon or and find a copy of Foxe’s Book of Martyrs. It is very affordable, and extremely enlightening! It goes back into history around the 1000-1500 mark, and tells what the R.C. cult did to the real Christians. I’m reading my copy again, and let me tell you, it is NOT anything that I would want to be associated with! In fact, in my next post, I’m going to put in an excerpt from it. It sounds just like what’s happening today! The persecution of Christians by the R.C. cult has NEVER stopped! It’s still on-going today, and your pope is currently laying the ground work for it on a global scale! “Come out of her”, Carlos! We don’t say these bad things about your object of faith Carlos, just to be mean-spirited, know-it-alls, etc. We share with you with such passion and conviction because we have done our research. We were taught history in school, and we don’t want to see your soul go to Hell and ultimately into an eternity without Christ!

      The Bible makes it very clear, there is NO such thing as “purgatory”! Read Hebrews 9: 27, and see for yourself! You die and then comes the judgment. You will either be on Christ’s team or you’ll be in the other camp…the choice is yours! Do NOT allow yourself to be pinned to this entity because you were “baptized Catholic” when you were a baby! That NEVER should have been done! That’s making a religious hostage out of a baby, who grows up under bondage to a commitment that s/he had no part to say in it! That in itself is against the Word of God!
      We share because we care!

    • TheGreatTroy


      You need to study scripture.

    • Edwitness

      In answer to your question, “is there any thing about catholicism that you like or approve?”, I would have to say no. Please, let me explain?
      Since Catholicism mixes a little bit of truth with a whole lot of lies, to say I like or approve of anything about Catholicism, would be the same as saying I like or approve of some things about Satan. Seeing how that is the preferred way he does things. You see, he also mixes a little bit of truth with a whole lot of lies.
      And the truth mixed with a lie, makes the whole thing a lie.

  • Carlos

    Jesus was an obidient son not only to God his father, but also to his mother, remember the wedding at Canna, he did what his motear toldo him to eventhough he didin’t want to perform the miracke. He also obeided his church all the time. In order to become a saint we have to be obedient and humble. Things that I’m not.

  • Carlos

    Please stop attacking the church that I love so much, it has done so much for me and billions more, I love her like I love my mom And feels bad knowing that good people like you insult her so much. We as christians have more serius enemies like the masons that are trying to destroy the RC even from within other enemies are dificult to identify but poeerful, like charismatics that try to push the faith trough watching miracles or watching possesions or try to live the faith trough emotions that are not love. Or the progressive movement that atack the family And the faith it self.

    • Skywatcher

      Carlos, what is it that you “love so much”? You say it is “the church”. What is the church? It’s the born again, blood-bought body of Christ, not a temple made with hands! Do you love the people who make it up this “church” or the institution?

      To be able to deal with your concern, one needs to know exactly what it is you’re so in love with. May I lovingly encourage you to shift your love off the institution, and to place it and your devotion on Jesus Christ, the Head of the Church instead? That’s where it ought to be because He died for you, the “church” of Satan didn’t! If you read your Bible, you’ll see in Corinthians and Ephesians and elsewhere, that the real church of Christ has a very special place in His heart.

      First of all, you need to realize and understand…WE LOVE THE ROMAN CATHOLIC PEOPLE! I don’t hate you! However, we despise the unholy institution, what it has done, and is doing to its own people and others! I don’t know how you could love a church that not only condones pedophilia, but practices it within the “holy” walls of the Vatican on a daily basis, and believe this is godly! It promotes and hides it within the local churches, moving the priests from place to place when they get caught! Does this not sound a little anti-Christ to you? If not, it should! God’s Word commands that a priest be the husband of one wife: Lev. 21: 13, 14; I Tim. 3: 2. If they were allowed by the Vatican to marry, these abuses would not be nearly so plentiful! Your much venerated Apostle Paul taught that in the last days, there would be those who forbid marriage, I Tim. 4: 1-3. These wolves in sheep’s clothing are fulfilling Scripture by disobeying it! That’s just a little bit for you to think about!

      I don’t know how you can love an entity that has trillions of dollars worth of wealth that it has pillaged and plundered to get throughout the ages from the real genuine Bible-believing/practicing Christians, while so many people around the world are cold, naked, and starving!

      What has your “church” REALLY done for you? I’ll be waiting for your reply, but in the meantime, let me share with you a little something from history, revealing what your church has done TO others who do not belong to their unbiblical flavor of “Christianity”. Fasten your seat belt! Here’s what your “church” does to IT’S OWN, when they believe they aren’t following their man-made rules:

      This is about a brother in Christ, many years ago, in England, named Romanus. A little background: “The Christians were at that time congregated together, to whom one Romanus hastily ran, declaring that the wolves (R.C. clergy) were at hand which would devour the Christian flock…Brought was it to pass, by the great grace of God working in Romanus, that old men and matrons, fathers and mothers, young men and maidens, were all of one will and mind, most ready to shed their blood in defence of their Christian profession.

      Word was brought unto the prefect, that the band of armed soldiers was not able to wrest the staff of faith out of the hand of the armed congregaton, and all by reason that Romanus so mightily did encourage them, that they stuck not to offer their naked throats, wishing gloriously to die for the name of their Christ.”

      As you have done, Carlos, this man of God was called a “rebel” for standing up for Jesus Christ, in direct opposition to the church you love. Here’s what he said when he was told he would be in “great pain” for this: “‘Thy sentence O prefect, I joyfully embrace; I refuse not to be sacrificed for my brethren, and that by as cruel means as thou mayest invent: and whereas thy soldiers were repelled from the Christian congregation, that so happened, because it lay not in idolaters and worshippers of devils, to enter into the holy house of God, and to pollute the place of true prayer.’

      Then Asclepiades, wholly inflamed with this stout answer, commanded him to be trussed up, and his bowels drawn out. The executioners themselves more pitiful at heart than the prefect, said, ‘Not so, sir, this man is of noble parentage; unlawful it is to put a nobleman to so unnoble a death.’ ‘Scourge him then with whips,’ quoth the prefect, ‘with knaps (shards) of lead at the ends.’ Instead of tears, sighs, and groans, Romanus sang psalms all the time of his whipping, requiring them not to favour him for nobility’s sake. ‘Not the blood of my progenitors’, said he, ‘but Christian profession maketh me noble.’ The wholesome words of the martyr were as oil to the fire of the prefect’s fury. The more the martyr spake, the madder was he, insomuch that he commanded the martyr’s sides to be lanced with knives, until the bones appeared white again. (That’s some kind of love, eh, Carlos?)

      The second time Romanus preached the living God, the Lord Jesus Christ, His well-beloved Son, and eternal life through faith in His blood, Asclepeiades commanded the tormentors to strike Romanus on the mouth, that his teeth being stricken out, his pronunciation at leastwise might be impaired. The commandment was obeyed, his face buffeted, (beaten), his eyelids torn with their nails, his cheeks scotched (sliced) with knives; the skin of his beard was plucked by little and little from the flesh; finally, his seemly face was wholly defaced. The meek martyr said, ‘I thank thee, O prefect, that thou hast opened unto me many mouths, whereby I may preach my Lord and Savior Christ. Look; how many wounds I have, so many mouths I have lauding and praising God.'”

      At this point, Romanus requested a seven year old child to be brought to the forefront. Imagine, being that little boy, Carlos, having to look upon a hideously carved up man, that the “church” you “love” had made this way! Romanus asked the lad, “‘Tell me, my babe…whether thou think it reason that we should worship one Christ, and in Christ one Father, or else that we worship many gods?'”

      The innocent lad agreed with him, we worship one God. See what your church did to this little seven year old for speaking the truth:

      His mother was called forth, the child was scalped in front of her, he was hung up and beaten. His loving tearful mother encouraged him to be strong and to receive the stripes with “smiling countenance”. “The prefect perceiving the child invincible, and himself vanquished, committeth the blessed babe to the stinking prison, commanding the torments of Romanus to be renewed and increased, as chief author of this evil.” While the wounded man was being whipped all over again, the prefect came up to him and sneered, “Is it painful to thee, to tarry so long alive? A flaming fire, doubt thou not, shall be prepared for thee by and by, wherein thou and that boy, thy fellow in rebellion, shall be consumed into ashes.’ Romanus and the babe were led to execution. When they were come to the place, the tormentors required the child of the mother, for she had taken it up in her arms; and she, only kissing it, delivered the babe. ‘Farewell,’ she said, ‘my sweet child; and when thou hast entered the kingdom of Christ, there in thy blest estate remember thy mother.’ And as the hangman applied his sword to the babe’s neck, she sang on…

      The innocent’s head being cut off, the mother wrapped it up in her garment, and laid it on her breast. On the other side a mighty fire was made, whereinto Romanus was cast, whereupon a great storm arose and quenched the fire.” Romanus was strangled to death. Foxe’s Book of Martyrs, prepared by W. Grinton Berry, pp. 34-38.

      Quickly, here’s what they did to another brother, Lawrence: “Away with him, away with him: whip him with scourges, jerk him with rods, buffet him with fists, brain him with clubs…Pinch him with fiery tongs, gird him with burning plates, bring out the strongest chains, and the fire-forks, and the grated bed of iron: on the fire with it; bind the rebel hand and foot; and when the bed is fire-hot, on with him: roast him, broil him, toss him, turn him: on pain of our high displeasure do every man his office, O ye tormentors. The word was no sooner spoken, but all was done.” Ibid, pg. 30 Yep! That’s some kind of loving church I DON’T want to be a part of!

      This, Carlos, was one of the less gruesome executions the “church” that you love, did and is still doing to the saints of God all around the world, cleverly keeping it out of the media! Does this sound like something that you believe God would be pleased with? With loads of money, they can afford this kind of media secrecy. You really should, get yourself a copy of this book, as I suggested to you in my last post! There are hundreds of these stories, each one worse than the one before it! Tortures brought straight out by demons in mens’ bodies, mistakenly called a “Church” or “Christianity”.

      See now, Carlos, why we speak out against your “church”? This is ACTUAL HISTORY, and in my next post, I’m going to prove to you, that we are ripe and ready to see this happen all over again! Wake up, my friend!

  • Carlos

    Helo skywatcher, let me ask you a question, is there anything about catholicism that you like or aprove?

    • Skywatcher

      Carlos, it doesn’t matter what I like or approve of! Let me ask you a question. Is there anything about the R. C. “church” that God likes or approves of? NO! But He sure LOVES THE PEOPLE, and longs to have a personal relationship with them through Jesus Christ, His Son! I love the Catholic people. In fact, I have neighbors across the street who used to be R.C. and when they became born again, they immediately left that place, because the Holy Spirit alerted them to the dangers of staying there.

      Let me give you a hint: If you bow down or cross yourself to any idols or statues, you have the smell of smoke on you! How can I know that for sure? I’m so glad you asked me!

      In Exodus 20: 3, it says, “Thou shalt not have no other gods before me. 4. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above (Mary or the saints), or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5. Thous shalt NOT bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me…”

      “…them that hate me…” Those are pretty strong words, but God says we cannot have two masters because we will love one and hate the other. To have another god/idol ahead of God is to declare one’s hate for Him. Christ repeatedly said, “If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.” John 15: 10;14, and elsewhere in the N.T..

      Read Eph. 5: 5-16, it says the wrath of God abides on YOU, because of your disobedience! What disobedience, you ask? God said, “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15. And what concord hath Christ with Belial: or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16. And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17. Wherefore COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM, AND BE YE SEPARATE, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18. And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.”

      Right there, Carlos, that last sentence tells YOU and I that we cannot be God’s sons or daughters until we obey Him and come out of that dark place/religion. That’s not me saying that Carlos, that is God’s Word. I’m sure He knows what is best for us.

      God’s word says in Eph. 5: 11 that we are to have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.”

      To continue to stay in that “church” is in direct violation of this command! This is not a suggestion; it is a command from God.

      That, my friend, is just what I’m doing! Reproving, trying to steer you out of the fire and into the everlasting arms of the Lord Jesus Christ. Can you be angry with me for that? I speak these words to you, Carlos, out of a heart filled with love and concern, not with malice, judgment, or ignorance as some dare to wrongfully accuse.

      If you saw your little child running headlong towards the campfire, wouldn’t you yell or do something quickly to divert them from danger, or would you just let them continue on their way into the fire? The Lake of Fire is for all eternity; there is no coming out of it! Heb. 9: 27 emphatically says it; Jesus said it in Luke 16: 19-31.

      • Edwitness

        Great answer Skywatcher,
        To both Carlos and George. Keep speaking the truth in love.

  • Skywatcher

    Folks, I’m going to prove to you, that we are ripe and ready to see the unholy global church, headed by the pope, do these atrocities all over again! How can I be sure about that? Glad you asked!

    “In these days the whole state of religion was depraved and corrupted: the name only of Christ remained amongst Christians, but His true and lively doctrine was as far unknown to the most part as His name was common to all men. As touching faith, consolation, the end and use of the law, the office of Christ, our impotency and weakness, the Holy Ghost, the greatness and strength of sin, true works, brace and free justification by faith, the liberty of a Christian man, there was almost no mention.

    The world, forsaking the lively power of God’s spiritual Word, was altogether led and blinded with outward ceremonies and human traditions; in these was all the hope of obtaining salvation fully fixed; insomuch that scarcely any other thing was seen in the temples or churches, taught or spoken of in sermons, or finally intended or gone about in their whole life, but only heaping up of certain shadowy ceremonies upon ceremonies; neither was there any end of this their heaping.

    The Church did fall into all kind of extreme tyranny; whereas the poverty and simplicity of Christ were changed into cruelty and abomination of life. With how many bonds and snares of ceremonies were the consciences of men, redeemed by Christ to liberty, ensnared and snarled! The Christian people were wholly carried away as it were by the nose, with mere decrees and constitutions of men, even whither it pleased the bishops to lead them, and not as Christ’s will did direct them. the simple and unlearned people, being far from all knowledge of the holy Scripture, thought it quite enough for them to know only those things which were delivered them by their pastors; and they, on the other part, taught in a manner nothing else but such things as came forth of the court of Rome (Vatican); whereof the most part tended to the profit of their order, more than to the glory of Christ.”

    Doesn’t that sound just like the condition of the Church today? THAT WAS BACK IN A.D. 1371! This was excerpted from Foxe’s Book of Martyrs, prepared by W. Grinton Berry, p. 50.

    This was the spiritual climate at the time of that very notable, John Wycliffe, known as “Wickliff” in the book. John was the public reader of divinity in the University of Oxford. For such evil times, he was famously reputed as a great clerk, a very learned scholar, and an expert in all kinds of philosophy.

    “Through God’s providence stepped forth into the arena the valiant champion of the truth, John Wickliff, our countryman, whom the Lord raised up here in England, to detect more fully and amply the poison of the Pope’s doctrine and false religion.” Ibid., p. 49.

    Dear Ones, that’s exactly where we are today, wouldn’t you agree?

    • George

      You are really good at cutting a pasting and never telling anyone where you got your information from. Abraham Lincoln was quoted as saying, “You can’t believe everything you read on the Internet.”

      You copied piece is from John Wickliffe on the state of the church A.D. 1371. A real timely piece. But it’s not the bible.

      • Skywatcher

        George, I didn’t cut or paste! I said it was “an excerpt from “Foxe’s Book of Martyrs”, which I have on my desk beside me. It didn’t come from the internet as you wrongly assume. You really should bet that book, George! It’s worth its weight in platinum! It talks of the various emperors, kings, popes, and their disdain for Bible Christians, just as they do today.

        As for the piece on the state of the church in A.D. 1371, I NEVER said it was from the Bible or I would have stated as such, if warranted. It’s a piece of history, and we are allowed to use history in our study of God’s Word. I cited that passage to show that history actually repeats itself, especially when it has been engineered to do so, or the people forget their history and make the same mistakes all over again.

        • George

          Skywatcher… As I said, you spend too much time in the past and hanging on to the opinions of others. Yes, studying history is important, but you use those writings to try and convict others like me. That is so wrong and nothing Jesus would recommend. My comment about it not coming from the bible was my point that I am not concern with what others thought of people several centuries ago. I let God deal with them. I am only concern with my own self and that of bringing others to Christ in today’s world. If I were to preach about the hatred of others, I would have to include almost every denomination in the world. Instead, I choose to preach the Good News of Jesus Christ.

        • David Kaus

          Hello Skywatcher. Ask the Catholics you are posting to if they approve of what is going on in the pope’s pagan assembly of religions in the video below. His attempt to justify this pagan assembly was that he claimed that they all worship the same God.

          • George

            David… why don’t you ask me yourself? First, this is rather dated and jam packed with conjecture, statements taken out of context and great editing not to mention was produce by those who view the Catholic church in a bad light. So you really have to consider the purpose behind the production which is hate. No one bothers to dissect it or point out it’s own lies and conjecture. Gee, I wonder why they won’t allow comments on it? They make the same sort of videos about George Bush, Obama and anyone else that is hated by another group. It’s pure propaganda and those who made it know that. Oh, well… God will sort it all out in the end.

          • skywatcher

            Hi there, Bro. David! I’m going to watch that clip you so graciously provided in a moment. In the meantime, I can say, their gods are no more alike than a McDonald’s Big Mac is the same as a Subway sandwich!

            The Catholics would obviously approve of what’s going on in the video because they obviously approve of all the sexual indiscretions that go on, from the Vatican to the local assembly! They’re continuing to go there to worship a holy God is asinine, in light of the daily goings on, and it says, “I’M IN FAVOR of your deviant practices!”

            When the congregation doesn’t read the Word, they have no idea of what is right or wrong in God’s eyes. They are so steeped in liberalism and corruption, that they have no way to know the difference. If anybody love and care for them as a people, enough to try to show them the wrongs of the institution, their defenses go up and Satan scores another victory. It’s one of the BIGGEST indicators that we are truly in the last days! If my pastor who led me to Christ as a seven year old, could resurrect and see what’s going on today, he’d be right in saying, “I told you so”, because he did! Many times throughout the 50’s and right up until a year ago, when Christ called him home, he was declaring the godlessness of the R.C. cult.

            Blessings, Bro!

  • Carlos

    Let me ask you again, si there any thing about catholicism that you like or aprove?

  • Carlos

    Hello George I think I rememeber a little of why we call father a priest, Saint Paul said I am your father because I delivered you to Jesus or something like that. Jesus our lord talked to the desd, remember in mount Tabor he speaked to Moses and Elijah. About the purgatory the bible says, when on the road beware to be in peace with others because if you leave owing something the police will come and take you to the judge And he will make you pay to the last cent, or something like that. Maybe a good protestant reading bible could help me with the right quotes.

  • David Kaus

    George do you really think any one with any sense buys your psycho babble ?

    These pagan assemblies with the pope as it head have been well reported by many news agencies, and not just put on youtube to spread hate, they spread the facts about the head of the Whore church of which you are a part.

    So what “lies” and “conjecture” in the video are you referring to ? Some more of your vague statements to try to obscure the facts ?

    Now here is some of the same information from a Catholic web site. Fortunately even some Catholics have come to realise that this Catholic unity with pagan religions, spear headed by the “anti popes,” as they describe them, are totally heretical.

    Why they even list all the pagan religions that attended this meeting at Assisi, Italy, imagine that ?

    The pictures posted on this Catholic web site even show a statue of Buddha on the altar and being prayed to.

    But there is much more George. You’ll have to check it out and bring yourself up to speed on Catholicism.

  • David Kaus

    Hello Skywatcher, how’s the weather up there ?

    I was brought up in Catholicism and thankfully got out of it by the grace of God. I wonder if the apostate George still prays to Mary ? And has he ever given the Scriptural admonition to mark them that cause division to the doctrine you have learned, and avoid them, any consideration ? Or the Scripture that says that they went out from among us because they were not of us ? A profession of faith means nothing without a real conversion to the faith of Jesus Christ.

    I’ve talked to many Catholics about what Scripture says and what Catholicism professes. Some are open to the truth, and some are highly defensive. The defensive ones simply brush aside any thing that rocks their boat. They are set in a mind set of “catholic before anything.” They are catholic before Scripture, catholic before truth, catholic before a saturated homosexual priesthood, and catholic before bowing to Jesus Christ as the only head of the church and not some delusional pope.

    Here is a catholic web site that condemns the present “anti popes” as they call them, that does a much better job of showing what the pope’s Catholic pagan unity is all about. It’s straight from the horses mouth, and George will not like eating this hay.

    God bless, David

    • Skywatcher

      Hi there, Bro. David! Visibility is poor tonight; the angels are dropping white “feathers” all over the place! The weather is nasty up here…it’s hard to see beyond “the fields that are white unto harvest”, for all the snow that is coming down right now! We’re in the middle of a Nor’ Easter! The snow is just like shoveling ice cream…very soggy and heavy. I will dread moving it around tomorrow. The trees are bowed down as much as possible from the weight of this heavy sticky stuff. I hope we don’t lose power.

      WOW!!! That was a mighty interesting article! I read it somewhere else today too. That’s a website I’m going to HAVE to spend some time on! Thankfully, you have an inside track on this, and YOU know what you’re talking about! This gives you special insight as to the strength of the bondage they are under. I guess George will have nothing to hide behind once this link makes its rounds. So sad. It breaks my heart to think of the innumerable billions who’ve followed after these sock puppets that ended up in a Christless eternity, because they denied the Truth (Christ, John 14: 6).

      Back around 1997-98, as a newspaper editor, a R.C. newspaper came across my desk, and usually, I ignored them, but not this one. I felt drawn to open its pages, and I was horrified at a headline I saw! It read, “The Pope Blesses Massacre of Evangelical Protestants”! I kid you not! I wish I had kept that paper, or at least made a copy of the article. I believe it was in Rwanda or Zimbabwe, or one of those countries we don’t hear so much about. I read it and just shook my head, and this is what most of the world believes is Christianity! No wonder we true Christians have such a difficult time sharing Christ with others; they focus on what the “Christian” R.C. cult has done throughout the years, and is currently doing in its sexual escapades and other corruptions. Satan is using this evil entity in a mighty powerful way. I would NOT want to be any of those Christ-denying clergy on Judgment Day. So sad!

      David, on a personal note, did the rest of your family defect from the Catholic cesspool when you did? Or, did you have much opposition and persecution?

      You’re quite good at slinging the vernacular in a particular pattern too, I see: “It’s straight from the horses mouth, and George will not like eating this hay.” I really like that one! I’m not sure he’s going to eat it though, because after following he and EdWitness, I believe George is the other end of the horse! One can’t even suck up water from that end! 🙂 Hard to see the truth right in front of one, when you’re at the opposite end pulling the other way!

      I would really like to meet George in person; he’s probably a very amiable guy, just like you and I!

      I for one, sure do appreciate your input! That’s why God has made the Body of Christ up of so many different members…we each bring a little something special to the table! Praise the Lord! Continue to keep us intrigued, informed, and edified!

      God bless you, too!


  • David Kaus

    We got a bit of the white stuff today also Skywatcher, but nothing compared to what you are getting on the northeastern coast.

    Several of the family are sill in Catholicism, and very worldly, and are taking a stand on their Roman Catholic beliefs. But what popery, and the vatican are promoting today has to make them wonder.

    At times I like to go around and visit churches to get a snap shot of what is going on locally. That at times leads to extended visits, and even bible study with some. Several of these churches who have a constitution that says they uphold the KJV only, have deacons who use corrupt translations. Others, have deacons, and members that want to change the constitution to allow the revisions in. Some allow guest preachers to preach from a revised bible. And some pastors who state that they absolutely know how corrupt the revisions are still allow the congregation to vote other bibles in because ” they don’t want to take sides.” How’s that for leadership ? That’s they way churches are going today.

    There is a Baptist pastor not to far away that was teaching that “God dwells with sin.” When I first heard him say that I was waiting for the punch line. This happened at a prayer/teaching meeting. Well there was no punch line. He asked for a show of hands of those who acknowledged his statement. All hands went up except mine. He then asked who didn’t believe that (I guess he didn’t notice that I hadn’t raised my hand. Many people were in the church at that meeting), well my hand went up. His face hit the floor. His total indoctrination plan hit a snag.

    His face hit the floor several times in my brief visit there, especially when I started conversations with the deacons about the KJV, and Roman Catholicism. It got to the point where he wouldn’t shake my hand when leaving a Sunday’s service. It didn’t take long for many people to start leaving that church, even a retired pastor. The visit list goes on, and its not painting an encouraging sign for the church nor America.

    One bible class I attended on an Indian reservation (I still have my scalp, but barely) had people there that accepted Catholicism. One guy kept giving testimonies of monks, and Catholic authors. Well we got into it a little, and it turned out that he knew very little about transubstantiation, or anything else on Catholicism. I wasn’t very welcome there after a few of these discussions.

    That newspaper article you mentioned you got in 1997 doesn’t surprise me. There have been many reports of Roman Catholicism showing its inquisitional face in South America, and Mexico. We are not far away from those days here in America.

    If George is that far removed from the hay end of the horse, he is having a serious pollution problem. Edwitness, and you have given him some real meat to chew on, but you can take a horse to water, but you can make him eat hay.

    Keep contending for the Faith brother, and God Bless.

    • Skywatcher

      David K, thank you, for sharing that with me (us)! I asked the question because some people get alienated from their families when they defect from cults.

      You said, “At times I like to go around and visit churches to get a snap shot of what is going on locally.”

      So do I, and like you, I see much that our Lord would be desirous of cleaning out “of the temple”, overturning many tables, I believe!

      You said, “There is a Baptist pastor not to far away that was teaching that “God dwells with sin.” When I first heard him say that I was waiting for the punch line. This happened at a prayer/teaching meeting. Well there was no punch line. He asked for a show of hands of those who acknowledged his statement. All hands went up except mine. He then asked who didn’t believe that (I guess he didn’t notice that I hadn’t raised my hand. Many people were in the church at that meeting), well my hand went up. His face hit the floor. His total indoctrination plan hit a snag.”

      I could envision that whole scenario! I wonder whom these pastors are really serving? One cannot be serving Almighty God and making these ludicrous statements and expect to get away with it, surely not! His deacons should be praying for God’s mighty conviction to rest upon his soul and if that fails, praying for a new pastor!

      You said, “It got to the point where he wouldn’t shake my hand when leaving a Sunday’s service.” By our love, they will know we are Christians. “The tree is known by the fruit it produces”. I wonder what the people standing around were thinking when they saw that display of ungodliness? Hmmm… I’m glad to hear that many have left that place, but at the same time, I hope they found another place of worship where the truth is boldly declared, w/out compromise and with Biblical integrity!

      I’m deeply disturbed when I see pastors allowing counterfeit bibles into the sanctuaries. “A little leaven, leaventh the whole lump.” I strongly believe a person who is Spirit-filled could NOT allow that to be happening. By that, I mean the REAL Holy Spirit! Hence, we have many preachers, deacons, and sheep who are deceived and when confronted with the truth, they recoil and strike out like spitting cobras.

      We have a senior Baptist pastor in my locale, who uses both the KJV “for the older saints” and the phonies for the younger adults. I told him the latter were contradictory to the KJV, but compromise was the diet for the day. Rom. 12: 2 meant absolutely nothing to him; numbers and money are his master…

      Keep the banner flying high, my brother! Maranatha!

      • David Kaus

        Hello Skywatcher, the temperatures have gone up to the mid 40’s here, with plenty of sunshine. Yahooooooooo !

        You’re welcome about my testimony, when you take a stand for Scripture and Jesus Christ you find that most Catholics think you have landed from Mars. They are indoctrinated from their youth with every thing but Jesus Christ . He is on a far away back burner with only a flicker of a pilot light on. When you speak of His Blood Atonement for sin they look at you like you’ve just presented some strange doctrine.

        I believe that Baptist pastor was a “Purpose Driven” infiltrator. His doctrine of “God dwells with sin” would fit right in with Roman Catholicism. Since Catholics have no assurance of Salvation and a works Salvation then to still believe that God is with them they would have to believe that God dwells with sin. The Baptist Church he took over had some fine pastors before he came. But, the condition of the Church could never have been that good. How else could some one come in with their own “sin and God” doctrine and have every one agree to it.

        I visited another Baptist Church today. This one takes a stand on the KJV. During the sermon the pastor spoke on the verse in Scripture that tells of God’s house in heaven having many mansions. He then said but if you have a modern bible it says that God’s house has many “room.” Then he emphatically, with emotional conviction stated, “I’m not going to a hotel in heaven, I’m going to a mansion.” I got a good chuckle out of that one.

        I was invited to a small fellowship dinner after church and decided to accept the invitation. I had some great conversations with several people. Then there was a teaching service after that which I attended. I was about to leave when it ended when a lady came up and spoke with me. She was very hospitable, and so easy to engage in conversation. She asked if I would like to stay and attend the singing practice they were having in preparation for Resurrection Sunday. How could I turn such a person down ?

        I was given their song book and invited to join in the singing. Realising that this could bring an early end to the practice session I kept a low profile with the vocals, especially since some of the songs were in a rendition that I was not totally familiar with. Well it came to a song where the pastors wife had a solo. Mr. Skywatcher, she sang like a song bird, and the tears started flowing. My what a blessing, and I’m so glad that personable lady had taken the time to ask me to stay.

        That pastor you spoke of is bringing those young kids up to accept the corrupt revisions, with his stamp of approval whether he realises it or not. Then if he has any integrity whatsoever he will one day have to explain to them that they are corrupt and that the KJV is a faithful translation of the preserved Word of God. Can you imagine the confusion that will bring to them ? They are going to look at him like he was a crazy loon to have ever led then into believing that using those revisions were totally acceptable. Unbelievable !!!

        Keep the Faith once delivered to the Saints brother, and God Bless.

        • Skywatcher

          Hey, Bro. David, it’s a balmy -6 C up here! Toss me a blanket, would ya! 😉

          I’m glad you had such a wonderful experience at that church today! I enjoyed much the same this evening. Just got in, and we had a time of fellowship after the service and it was awesome!

          I’m fairly new at this church, but have known a number of the people for much of my life. The pastor (50) preached the Word with such a powerful anointing tonight like I’ve never seen! The congregation sang this morning and tonight as though it could be our last time. You and I have both had a wonderful day in the Lord’s House! I would love to hear that pastor’s “song bird” sing; sounds like quite an experience! That’s the difference the anointing of the Holy Spirit makes! He just brings the best right out!

          That pastor I spoke about, won’t have to explain anything to the young people about the Bibles; he’s committed so many sins against myself and others, that his health is now starting to fail him quite badly. I sometimes hear him on the radio, and I can immediately detect the weakness in his voice. He was warned several years ago, that if he didn’t repent and crucify self and pride, that he could anticipate the Lord would deal with him. HE is.

          I trust our Lord will find a project to set us to in this coming week! “Had it not been for a hill called Mount Calvary…” God bless you!


          • David Kaus

            What a blessing to hear about your Sunday Skywatcher, it was so similar to mine.

            What a sad case that pastor you mentioned is in.

            Several members of the congregation who’s Church I visited had the meek spirit of Jesus Christ and His love. You can’t miss it when it is manifested. I remember when President Reagan died. At his church service Protestant ministers spoke, and some Catholic priest. There couldn’t have been a more dramatic contrast. Catholicism was all dead letter, nothing there but words. But not so with the Protestant ministers there with The Word of God.

            I’m on the fourth volume of Henri Merle D’Aubigni’s History of the Reformation. What a work. It took him fifteen years of research to produce it. What testimonies to Faith in God’s Word, and Jesus Christ in those times are recorded. So many Christians gave Glory to God with their strand unto death defending the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It was indeed a revival of the early Church days.

            Truly A Mighty Fortress Is Our God.

            Jesus Christ Hallelujah !!! Amen.

            God Bless, David..

      • David Kaus
  • Carlos

    Yes sure David we the catholics will go to hunt you down over there, je je je.

  • tiptopsaidhe

    The angel in Rev 17:18 refers to the woman (harlot) as that “great city”:

    Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

    If we search elsewhere in John’s Revelation, we find the same phrase here:

    Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

    “where also our Lord was crucified”….Where was our Lord crucified? Jerusalem. 1st century apostate Jerusalem is Mystery, Babylon the Great.

    The pharisetical Jews of 1st century Jerusalem that killed Christ and Stephen, and the apostles, and many of the followers of Christ are the “dead bodies” John is referring to here:

    Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

    He is talking about the High Priest family that hated Jesus. Jesus didn’t fulfill the picture of the Messiah they were awaiting…one that would establish Jewish rule over the nations, and rid them of Roman rulership forever.

    Catholicism is simply a continuation of “works” religion…Pharisee-ism. Claiming Messiah as savior, but then adding “help” from ourselves through our own religious ceremony and “works” sacrifices is the ultimate sin against God’s doctrine of redemption. It is the spirit of anti-christ. Baptism, communion, etc are beautiful ways to express our appreciation for Messiah’s work on the cross, but have no bearing on our redemption. God, Himself, circumcises our hearts when He calls us to believe upon the sacrifice of Messiah to redeem mankind back to Himself, alone.

    As to the pope, of course the pope is willing to celebrate the reformers. The original reformers are turning over in their graves at this announcement. But, they would also turn over in their graves at the site of Protestant-ism having bought into the scam the RCC used to move Daniel’s 70th week out into the future. Our protestant faith ministries can continue to be played by the RCC, or we can pray that pride will be set aside as evidence is provided that can help us change course. I’d like to see this site disregard the RCC rapture nonsense and lead the way out of the dark shadow of the RCC.

    “The “Futurist School” interprets the language of the Apocalypse “literally,” except such symbols as are named as such and hold that the whole of the Book, from the end of the third chapter, is yet “future” and unfulfilled, and that the greater part of the Book, from the beginning of chapter six to the end of chapter nineteen, describes what shall come to pass during the last week of “Daniel’s Seventy Weeks.” . . . In its present form it may be said to have originated at the end of the Sixteenth Century, with the Jesuit Ribera, who actuated by the same motive as the Jesuit Alcazar, sought to rid the Papacy of the stigma of being called the “Antichrist,” and so referred the prophecies of the Apocalypse to the distant future. This view was accepted by the Roman Catholic Church and was for a long time confined to it, but, strange to say, it has wonderfully revived since the beginning of the Nineteenth Century, and among Protestants. . . ., The “Futurist” interpretation of scripture is the one employed in this book. Clarence Larkin~Dispensational Truth” (that book title is ironic, and hypocritical, considering he just exposed the lie in his own comment)

    Clarence Larkin, the king of dispensationalism, says how wonderful it is that the protestants have embraced the heresy to protect the pope. No doubt the pope is grateful to party among the protestants. We’ve taken over the burden of teaching the nonsense for him. “Late great planet earth” and “Left Behind” have donned the papal crown and spread the message.

    • Edwitness

      Tell me then tiptopsaidhe,
      When did everyone, “ALL”, small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, receive in their right hands or foreheads the 666 mark? That without it they could not buy or sell?

      • tiptopsaidhe

        The mark of the beast on the forehead is whether one has the mind of Christ or a mind against Christ…and anti-christ spirit that acts, and works (with hands), in rebellion to the notion that Jesus is the Messiah. Annas, the High Priest who killed Christ, and who died in the 6th month of the year 66 (666) was the man who had set himself in the temple as being above God. He rejected Jesus as Messiah, and worked throughout his life, through his many sons, son-in-law, and grandsons to persecute the Way and the believers of Messiah. They hired henchmen to steal the tithes that were to go to pay the priests in the temple, they hired them to kill and persecute the believers. It was Annas who was organizing the persecution of the apostles throughout the book of Acts.

        “without it they could not buy or sell” refers to the those who followed and believed in Messiah were taken off the roles of the govt and no longer received financial help. That is why James sent out Paul and the apostles to collect offerings from the churches to bring them back to Jerusalem to distribute among the messianic Jews who were being starved and killed for their belief. Those Jews who remained apostate (had the mark, didn’t believe Messiah had arrived) continued to receive financial help from the Jerusalem govt.

        Rom 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
        Rom 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

        • Edwitness

          That has to be one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever seen! You are actually saying you believe that these events are limited to Jerusalem and nowhere else?! And that they took place 2000 years ago? And that it doesn’t mean a literal mark? Where does the scripture say it is not a literal mark? And Paul never refers to those in Jerusalem as having anything to do with a mark. Or anywhere else for that matter. Certainly Paul would have mentioned it if that was why he was getting a collection for them, right?

          In Revelation 13:15 we begin to read “And he had power to give life unto the beast, that the image of the beast should both move and speak(when did this happen?), and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. (Again when did this happen?)

          And he causes ALL, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or forehead.” When he says all he means all. The whole world. The final world gov’t will reign over the whole earth. Not just Jerusalem. He will therefore cause everyone in the whole world to take the mark. Rev.13:7,8; “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints and to overcome them: And power was given him over all kindreds, tongues, and nations. And All that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” This should seal it for any objective reader. The final A C kingdom will reign over the whole earth over all mankind.

          You could not be more wrong in your ‘interpretation’.

          • Skywatcher

            Edwitness, I’m with ya, silently reading along and shaking my head. I wish commentators like tiptopsaidhe would give their sources for their wild revelations! At least, one would have something to “work with”, to prove or to discredit it. They could really be onto something…by times!

            Blessings! -:)

          • George

            Edwitness… And this is why I said if interpretation was easy or if God wanted us to know the exact plans he would have made it so we all would be on the same page. I agree with you that tiptopsaidhe’s interpretation is a bit of a stretch (and I don’t agree with it at all), but there are hundreds of other interpretations out there just as different from yours. Every time I read about some grand catastrophe in the world I think, yup it comes only to be let down again. Just as they thought WW1 and WW2 was it. Frankly, I’m not sure what all the brouhaha is about as the end will surely come in it’s time and the whole world will be in upheaval when it does (we are nowhere near that at the moment). I also believe it is out of our hands and or realm to do anything about it. Everyone (Christians) arguing with each other over who is right and who is wrong with any interpretation is not biblical at all and in fact, the bible warns us about this, doesn’t it? Just my two cents. People need to stop quarterbacking and get into recruiting instead.

          • tiptopsaidhe

            Rev 13:15 happened all the time to the Jews who followed Christ in the first century. James, the brother of John, is a famous example. Many of the priests who attended to the temple were starved and killed by govt of the High Priest for their belief in Christ. Josephus writes of it. I will put a link to the writings of Josephus here. It’s worth your time to read.


            Your interpretation is completely and wholly based upon Roman Catholic doctrine…upon a commentary written on the Revelation in the 1500s, none of which was based upon scripture, none of which was believed outside the catholic leadership until the 19th century, and was extrapolated upon by the very men that Geoffrey discredits on this site for being word of faith and prosperity false preachers. You are perpetuating Catholic heresy and adhering to a dispensationalism that doesn’t exist. You’ve bought the lie, hook, line and sinker. You won’t be able to see any other way until you embrace that fact.

            As with Skywatcher’s contempt comment below…I have given an abundance of scripture you can easily follow, and the dates are written down in history, which you can also easily follow. The confusion for you comes because it contradicts the RCC and Hal Lindsey version of things you follow, which it should.

            It’s hypocritical for you to comment in other places how the pope and the vatican is the anti-christ, all the while supporting their false doctrines and teachings. A break is going to have to be made someplace along the way…either from Ribera’s false teaching or from the Holy Bible to follow the RCC.

          • tiptopsaidhe

            George, to which method of recruiting, then, would you prefer we adhere? Should we continue to utilize a roman catholic false teaching which makes Jesus out to be a false prophet?

            Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

            Do we think that Jesus didn’t know what a generation was? But, we know now that he meant “sometime throughout the ages of history”? How dumb should we make him out to be?

            Mat 26:62 And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
            Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
            Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

            Jesus was talking to Annas. Joh 18:13 And led him away to Annas first; for he was father in law to Caiaphas, which was the high priest that same year.
            Joh 18:14 Now Caiaphas was he, which gave counsel to the Jews, that it was expedient that one man should die for the people.

            So, if Annas didn’t see Jesus coming in the clouds, and if Jesus didn’t bring judgment on apostate Jerusalem during that generation, then what else should we not believe?

            Now, which method should we teach?

            Should we teach that Jesus was anointed the Most Holy as mentioned in Daniel 9:24? Or should we teach that a messiah will be anointed someday out in the future? Are we still awaiting Messiah as those who practice Judaism? Or do we believe that God has anointed Jesus as Messiah?

            Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath “anointed” me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
            Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
            Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
            Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

          • George

            tiptopsaidhe… “to which method of recruiting, then, would you prefer we adhere? Should we continue to utilize a roman catholic false teaching which makes Jesus out to be a false prophet?”

            Are you on an ego trip? I don’t believe in any “denominational” doctrine. I believe in what Jesus taught. Jesus IS the Good News. All this speculation of when this happened or when that happens is meaningless chatter. Can people still be saved? Of course they can be. That is all I am concerned about. It is all YOU should be concerned about. All this arguing only turns others away. Some follow Apollos some follow Paul, as for myself, I’m following Jesus. Last time I checked, all the denominationals (including the RCC) and non-doms taught the same thing, that Jesus is the Son of God and died on the cross for our sins, was buried and resurrected. He said if you believe in me you will be accepted into the Kingdom of God. I don’t recall him ever saying it was important to know the exact date or details of how the end will come. He barely touched on it in Matthew when asked about it.

        • Edwitness

          What part of “And power was given him over ALL kindreds, tongues, and nations.” don’t you understand? That would be the whole earth. Not just Jews as you say.
          That is not Catholic. IT IS BIBLE!

        • Edwitness

          Jesus was speaking in answer to the disciples of what would be the signs of the end. That was the subject, right? The signs of the end of the age? Mt.24:3. He told them that this generation that sees these signs would be the last generation.

          Jesus told them that only the Father knew when that time would be, right? So that would indicate that, at least at the time He said it, Jesus did not know the timing of the end. Mt.24:36.

  • More than 40,000 men and women browse our internet site every single
    month to uncover the very best surveys obtainable out there.

  • Trober

    Throw Revelation 17:10 into your scripture references supporting this article:

    “They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.” Rev 17:10

    …which is the 7 kings joining with 10 heads-of-states:

    ” It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name” Rev 13:1

    At the time of writing Revelation, Judaism had then “fallen”. The “is”, Christianity. It evolved into Catholicism and Protestanism. Thus, the “not yet”, Protestantism. And, it “must remain for only a little while” – 500 years is very short compared to the other world religions.

    Scroll down to “Capitol Hill” here:

    • Edwitness

      Daniel did not tell King Nebuchadnezer that his religion was the head of gold. He told him his kingdom was the head of gold. That is the template for the rest of the statue. Therefore the shoulders, waist, legs, and feet are kingdoms as well. And these are the 5 that had fallen at the time of the writing of Revelation. The 6th being the Roman kingdom which was reigning over the kings of the earth when John wrote it. And the Roman kingdom (10 regions, the 8th kingdom) under the Vatican is rising to it’s final place to introduce the world to the A C. The 10 kings will rule with the beast, with the harlot (Catholicism) riding it, over the whole earth again. Rev.17

    • Edwitness

      I’m sorry Trober. My spellcheck changed it to Grover.

    • Skywatcher

      Trober, I’m afraid you’ve got “kingdoms” confused with religions. That’s not what the Scriptures say. Protestants have never had any kind of “kingdom”, but the Vatican has its own little country, palace (Vatican), etc. When you have this misunderstanding right at the foundation of Daniel, the rest is not in alignment with Scripture.


Join Our FREE Subscription Service!

End times Bible prophecy news happens fast, add your email now to get our latest articles sent to your inbox in real-time.

Join 12,400 other subscribers


24 hours a day, seven days per week, Now The End Begins keeps you informed of what's happening around the world as it relates to the end times and Bible prophecy. Your generous non-tax deductible contribution helps us to do that. Thank you in advance for your much-needed support.