Obama Issues Creepy Order To Start Dividing Cities Into ‘Promise Zones’

President Obama will designate troubled neighborhoods in five cities and areas as "Promise Zones," eligible for tax breaks and other forms of assistance designed to create jobs and improve...

RELATED STORY: 13 Similarities Between Obama And Hitler

Continuing to use Hitler’s rise to power in pre-war Germany as his template, Obama today issued the order to begin creating ‘promise zones’ with the dangling carrot of free government entitlements to take control. History can be a wonderful teaching tool for those who wide awake and taking notes.

How’s your notebook doing?

USA Today: President Obama will designate troubled neighborhoods in five cities and areas as “Promise Zones,” eligible for tax breaks and other forms of assistance designed to create jobs and improve education, housing and public safety.

The first five Promise Zones will be located in San Antonio, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, southeastern Kentucky, and the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma, said a White House statement. Obama plans to make a formal announcement Thursday.


Under the proposed Promise Zones, the federal government plans to partner with local governments and businesses to provide tax incentives and grants to help combat poverty. The project is part of Obama’s effort to address income inequality.

In his State of the Union Address a year ago, Obama said his administration plans “to partner with 20 of the hardest-hit towns in America to get these communities back on their feet. We’ll work with local leaders to target resources at public safety, and education, and housing.”

One prominent Republican — Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky — praised the proposed Promise Zone for Eastern Kentucky, but also said Obama policies have contributed to the region’s problems.

“I wrote a letter last year supporting this designation because this region has suffered enormous economic hardship over the last several years,” McConnell said in a statement. “Thousands of jobs have been lost and economic opportunity is extremely limited, particularly because of this administration’s hostile policies toward the coal industry.” source – USA Today

NTEB is run by end times author and editor-in-chief Geoffrey Grider. Geoffrey runs a successful web design company, and is a full-time minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. In addition to running NOW THE END BEGINS, he has a dynamic street preaching outreach and tract ministry team in Saint Augustine, FL.
  • My question to Obama: What will happen with his idea of fixing the problems that he created in the first place?

    Then I believe will happen, out of the blue, the Stock Market will crashed again, then where is his ideas going then in his fixer upper plan?

  • I have a few questions for you if you don’t mind. Let’s just say pre trib rapture did happen. What next?
    Will there not be people left behind that need to hear the message that we preach, to be ready for the antichrist, and who are they? Aren’t they our loved ones and friends who will have to suffer if they want to be saved. Don’t they need our message? Do pretribbers ever think about this, not one I O da. Because they are the most selfish Christians I know. They consider only themselves, and their blessed hope. Most won’t even hit a lick at a snake, thinking they deserve more from life, but not all of them. And you think you are ready to be raptured? Your Heart is not right with God. What would it hurt to be preparing for your family and friends for that time, if you did get to be raptured?
    Have you considered what the rapture was for? Mostly it is for the resurrection of the dead. The dead don’t have to go through the tribulation. The consolation of their resurrection is that the ones that remain here, just get to go with them, when the Lord comes in the clouds. It’s not about you saving your flesh and not suffering, Christians have always suffered. You have just been blessed in a time leading up to the end, the silence before the storm. It has spoiled you!

    • That message is to all pretrib Christians, not to one.

      • TO EVERYONE!! This is how the Lord has lead me: Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
        The Church, IS NOT at that point as of yet, judging from just this little site alone!! Let alone what I see in the churches and all over the world! Therefore the Lord will send great tribulation. Well, let me tell you folks, at that point, we won’t be doing our silly and rude strife and everything else our carnal minds can think of, we will grow up fast! We will have to come together in Unity for once, and LOVE, and encourage each other, and hold on to each other!!! This is what will bring the church together in UNITY at last, and separate the sheep from the goats! Only those who TRULY love God and his son, and are truly washed in the blood of the Lamb, and filled with the Holy Spirit of God, will endure to the end! Zec 4:6 Then he answered and spoke unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. IT will be by his Spirit, we will get through, and only by his grace and His Spirit!! You better be praying for your loved ones, and your-self’s and all of Gods true children, that we be strengthened and that we filled, and walking in his Spirit and grace, to be able to stand! This is how I see it, if you see it differently, I respect your opinion, but please allow me to have mine, as this is how I have been lead in the scriptures. Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may BE ABLE to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to STAND. We are now living in THAT EVIL DAY, and it is just going to get more evil!! God would not have said to stand if he didn’t mean that we will have to stand!!!! 🙂 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. LAST trump folks, not the first!! 2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day SHALL NOT come, EXCEPT there come a falling away first, AND that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Read it slow and over and over again, and let it sink in! Paul said let NO man deceive you…what did he really mean? He meant deceive you in thinking you will be flying out of here before the anti-Christ is revealed, that is what he meant, for heavens sake he gives the answer in the very sentence,,,FOR THAT DAY,,,SHALL NOT come, EXCEPT there come a falling away first, AND THAT man of sin be REVEALED! READ IT AGAIN! I don’t see how it can be any plainer. But you have to open your eyes to the fact you may have been miss-lead all these years. I did! I had gotten sick of mens false teachings. I wanted the truth, even if I had to swallow my pride. I prayed for the Lord to take away my false belief’s and open my eyes to HIS truth. That is when I started seeing it. When we are ready to let go of OUR ideas and OUR belief’s, then God can give you truth. Not until. May we all grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, and pray to be lead into all HIS truth. Please don’t get angry at this, I tell you in love. If you can’t see it yet, fine. I still love you and pray for you. In Jesus Name!! Love in Christ, suez

        • Suez: Your allowed your opinion as anyone elses opinion, but us believer in this point in time, will not go into the Tribulation, because we are justified by Jesus blood and dieing on the Cross for us, so we would not need to suffer in the Great Tribulation or any part of the 7 year Tribulation, IS NOT GOD GREAT?

          And billions of children will not suffer in that horrible period of the 7 year Tribulation.

        • Great testimony, Sue. Amen to it all Sister! The truth might hurt a little but it will set you free! I love you!

          • @Ron, thanks Ron, back at cha! I just wish instead of people tossing it aside, would actually read it with prayful eyes and ears..It is sad people are so stuck on their little belief systems. They wouldn’t even consider praying for God to take away their opinions or false beliefs and giving God a chance to give them truth. That is what is very sad. I am so glad that I humbled myself to admitting what I had could be wrong, and praying for the Lord to take it, forgive me for it, and to ask him to reveal his truth to me. Do I have it all, of coarse not. But I have a lot more truth than I used to have, and I thank God for it. Peace Brother, and hi to Bren!! Did you really remove me from your email or was that your alter ego???? lol 🙂

          • No , Sister I’ was waiting on that apology, you are still welcome to send. Yes, Sue, it is sad, people blind themselves with what they want, instead of what God is saying. We must humble ourselves and let God lead us through His Holy Spirit. That’s the only way. People like us can help show the truth, but only God can open eyes. A stiff neck won’t get it done. We must lose ourselves and take on the love of God. To believe in a rapture before trib, is selfish, it won’t fly with God. And neither will they fly! 🙂

          • Hi Suez, I have only just read what you’ve written. I myself am a Pre Trib believer , but what you have written is interesting and I will consider it . It is funny though because I have never been afraid of going through the tribulation. So, it is no argument either way for me. I understand I would be missing out on the feast of the lamb , but if your right I get to experience both. Blessings

          • @Dan, thanks Dan for your open mind. I don’t force it on anyone. To each their own…:-) But just keep reading the word, and pray each time that the Lord open your eyes to his truth. If you do this, and mean it, he will, and you will be greatly surprised at what you may see that you didn’t before!! 🙂

        • I used to think pre-trib but then a pastor said something about how there are Christians being killed for their faith, do you think they believe it’s pre-trib? That sealed it for me. God isn’t just considering the Christians in the US, it’s been bad everywhere else for quite some time. Just my two cents worth : )

          • @Karen, God Bless you Karen!!

          • Karen, that is exactly it. The western culture has spoiled Christians here.

      • Jesus NEVER forced Himself on anyone. He went away if unwanted. He asks, not insists or forces. Why do PERSIST on FORCING your beliefs down our throats and telling us what we believe when you know nothing of what we believe. You just accuse us of believing this or that false assumption on your part. Jesus does not force Himself on anyone, but Satan does. That is his style. Who are you patterening yourself after here.
        YOu are like a little buzzing knat that just won’t go away. It is annoying and no one cares.

        • Number 10 for RON:

        • Your problem is it all about you. Are you the only one here? This is not a church building, it’s the web? Come back down to reality, get off your high horse. If you don’t God will knock you off. And if he doesn’t the antichrist will. I pray for you the antichrist does it will be very unpleasant to go through God’s Wrath. Tribulation will be a Breeze in comparison. I hope you get ready. I thought you was finished insulting me, I should of known better! As you say STL, this is war to you, whether you be Marie or Pastor or R. MURPHY.

          • Poor Ronny: Now you really lowered yourself to the point now, to physical threats against Marie.


            Now that could be considered a physical bodily THREATS from you, since you already threaten her in another post, IF I BE GOD; YOU WOULD BE IN GRAVE DANGER.

            Then you said, And if he doesn’t the ANTICHRIST WILL. Now are you sure about that, or do you know the ANTICHRIST PERSONALITY?




            I have emailed NTEB to check out these THREATS against MARIE, if they refused to act on them, then I will call a few friends of mine in the NSA to see what they can do?

          • No one ever threatened anyone, read it again, you’re so good at preaching from a book that the common man wrote and then begging people for money by handing a plate around, seriously, you some therapist!!!

        • @Marie, Hi Marie, whom are you talking to here? If it is me, I don’t force my beliefs on anyone. I always try and say, I can be wrong or each can believe what they want. I never force, but I am sure entitled to my own beliefs like anyone else. thanks, 🙂

      • Ron, why do you wait until the Tribualtion to suffer for Christ? Do it today.
        Go tell a bunch of Muslim men about Jesus. Ever done that. I have.
        Tell the Hindus. Ever done that. I have.
        Tell the Jews. Ever done that? I have.
        Tell the cult people, Ever done that. I have.
        Ever been physically hurt for sharing the Gospel. I have.
        Got a concussion, almost got arrested, got a book in the head, had my life threatened and the list goes on.
        Been Rejected because you believe in Jesus. I have.
        Ever lost your family? I have.
        Oh, that’s right, you are waiting until the Tribulation starts to suffer for Christ and all we pretribbers just want to escape suffering!
        Hypocrite. Please share your sufferings for Christ Ron.

        • @Marie, were you a street preacher also? 🙂

          • Why do you mock me Suez. You think it humorous to witness Jesus to the world?

          • I did not see that as mocking, but as a question, w the smily? ?? don’t know tho

          • Hi Suez, yes she is from what she has shared w me . She witnesses to many diff Ethnic groups as well as Citizens. It is only her who has been writing on here that I can see.

    • Ron Murphy: More insults again, how about letting us finish drinking our coffe, before you start yelling at us about your false beliefs?

      Now we are selfish Christians, at least you think we are still christians.

      There will be alot of information on the Internet, for the left behinder to search for the truth, many ministers are posting messages on their web sites for the lost ones to consider.

      Yes we believe in our blessed HOPE!

      If I was depending on my merits in life, then I’m wasting my time on this web site or ever considering I’m ever going to Heaven, Ron. I will always fall short, as everyone would fall short. If we are depending on ourselves, our hearts would never be right with God.

      Alot of Born Again Believers talk to their family members, about our Lord’s Salvation, but still its a Freedom of Choice, and if they refused then that’s their problem.



      How can this be? If as you say, the dead doesn’t need to go through the Tribulation, then your relizing that the dead rises first, then who are alive will also go up and meet Jesus in the atmosphere (air), from 1st Thess. 4:17.

      Then you say we are saving our flesh and not suffing! We know by 1st Cor. 15: 51-53 that our flesh will not be allowed in heaven that our fleshal bodies will be turned into glorified bodies to enter into God’s kingdom.

      As you say, we are spoiled, I rather be spoiled than left behind?

    • @Ron, I wish people could ask those over seas, that are being brutality tortured and murdered for Christ, if they believe in a rapture that is going to get them out before they suffer greatly…LOL No, they would say, they will be rapture d when the Lord says he is coming like a thief in the night! 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
      2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
      2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
      2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
      2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
      This is the Blessed HOPE!!! He is coming in THAT Day!!!

      • What is your hangup of suffering for Christ. WE ALL suffer for Christ. You and Ron get over yourselves and quit telling us we want to avoid suffering. That is really stupid. I have suffered everyday since I baecame a Christian and it was because of Christ. I HAVE BEEN ON THE FRONTLINE. So don’t give me this crap about how we don’t want to suffer for our Lord. That is a false accusation and you don’t know what you are talking about. Ever looked a Muslim man in the face and said there is NO Allah. Tried witnessing to Muslims at all. Have you been beaten up for telling people about Jesus. Get off your high horse and quit falsely accusing us and telling us our motives for anything. Go out and suffer for Christ.

        • We all want to avoid suffering. Only a fool would want to suffer or maybe a Catholic. Jesus dreaded the cross, but knew it was necessary for our sakes. Sue and I Don’t want to suffer no more than you do! But we know it’s coming and that can’t be changed. It’s you that is in denial. The word is written. The word is true. The word will be fulfilled! You can not change that fact. Where you are raptured or not before trib, it will happen. To say otherwise is calling God a liar. Don’t you fear him any at all, STL?

        • 🙄 You just don’t get it. Sorry. I never said all the things you are accusing me of. My, My, your temper is as bad as Steve’s, isn’t it. Sad. I love you in the Lord, still…:-)

          • Oh so now I am Marie again.

      • And people here in America Suez are Suffering for Christ. Why don’t you try it.

        • Sorry, Steve, but you know nothing about me, or of what I have been through in my life. So stop with your silly comments. 🙁 The fact that you think you know so much about what others have been through or not been through is really kind of a egotistical way of thinking isn’t it? Since you really don’t know anything about anyone here or what their life has been like…My, my!!

        • American suffer very little for Christ , Go to Pakistan and look what they do to Christians.

    • Ron:

      Get into the book of Revelation my friend.

      All of your questions will be answered in the Bible.

      It just requires a little work on your part.

    • Ron:

      The rapture is to remove us from the wrath of God he will give to the universe.

    • They are the 144,000 Jewish men that will evangelize the world.
      Several were raptured in their living bodies.
      Not ALL Christians have suffered. What about death bed conversions and our parents generation. Why are you so stuck on the suffering thing. Just because we will be raptured out BEFORE the trib was God’s idea and does not mean that any pretiber is not willing to suffer. You have attached a lot of bull to our beliefs. Those are your thoughts not ours. Wuit attacking us with your misunderstaqndings. If you want to go thru the Tribulation go right ahead.
      I don’t care what you believe but you misname, mislable, falsely accuse pretribbers of beliefs they don’t have. Why would you want to do that? ree you afraid of something? What are you afraid of here? You claim to know what pretribers believe think and feel. You are incorrect but you persist. Jesus never forced Himself on anyone, why do you?

    • Have you suffered for Jesus Ron?
      How have you suffered for Jesus Ron?
      When have you suffered for Jesus Ron?
      Tell us about ALL your sufferings for Jesus Ron.
      Has anyone ever threatened to murder you Ron because you believe in Jesus, have you been jailed, beaten, bombed, denied or abused for Jesus Ron?????
      Where is all of your sufferings for Jesus Ron? Where?
      Tell us. We are all ears.

      • Just from these two comments. I now am sure Marie is Steve LaRue!! Steve, why? This is just crazy. What a stupid and childish thing to do. Sad….

        • You are insulting Suez. I am Marie. You and Ron constantly accuse me of being someone else when you don’t like what I say. You two are the decievers. What else do you have in your bag of tricks. Maybe my husband and I should visit you in Iowa to prove who I am. It’s not a long drive for us. Would you like to meet me in person?

          • I’m shaking in my cowboy boots now!! I wasn’t insulting you, I was stating a fact! And by the way, is this how someone talks as a loving Christian? Making threats at people, threatening to come beat them up??? I know someone else that is good at making threats!! That is why I think you are not who you claim to be, and are really someone else! Two peas in a pod usually hang by one stem!!! Just saying.

      • @Marie, excuse me, but what would you know of what Ron has suffered or not? And Yes, I think I can think of one person who has threatened to kill him. that would be your friend and co-chairman of sarcasm, STL! I tell no lies. It is on a post a few months ago, if anyone cares to look it up. As far as accusing the brother n like me of scoffing, you sure can throw out the sarcasm marie. I think you should look back over the post, and see who was the one who started throwing rocks. It wasn’t me. I just stated my opinions, and even said, “I can be wrong, and everyone can believe what they want.” I tried very hard to be loving and kind, forcing no one to believe like me. So tell me how is that “forcing” anyone…Please do tell! 🙁

    • Pehaps Ron it is you who are spoiled and have never really suffered for Christ. You just sit safe at home and blame others for you lack of suffering for Christ. Go out in the battlefield and then comnplain to us. You haven’t suffered for Christ have you Ron. You are just a fearful coward accusing others of your own fears. Pathetic complainer.

      • Ouch EVERYONE!
        Isaiah 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
        Cmon the Bible isn’t easy and we are all trying to figure out how to survive as Christians and how to walk the right path , what to do , what not to do.

        • @Dawn, amen Dawn!! 🙂

  • Hundreds Sick in Japan From Pesticide-Contaminated Frozen Foods

    By News Desk | January 8, 2014

    Hundreds of people in Japan have been sickened by food contaminated with the pesticide malathion. Reports on the number of victims differ from at least 890 to more than 1,000.

    The mass poisoning has been traced to Maruha Nichiro Holdings, which is recalling about 6.4 million bags of frozen foods, including croquettes, frozen pizza and chicken nuggets, after 2.6 million times the permitted levels of pesticide were found in the products.

    While 1.2 million packages have been recovered, another 5.2 million are still unaccounted for.

    Police are now investigating the company’s plant in eastern Japan, and Japanese media report that police suspect the malathion was mixed into products there.

    “We test products several times a day for evidence of spoilage, based on the law, but we had no reason to believe pesticides would be present, so we didn’t test for that,” Ichiro Gohara, a spokesman for the company told Bloomberg News.

    Symptoms of the poisoning include vomiting and diarrhea, and customers complained of a strong odor from the foods. According to Maruha Nichiro, none of the contaminated products has been shipped to other countries.

    Malathion is registered with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency for use on crops and is also an ingredient in head lice treatments.

    © Food Safety News

    More Headlines from Foodborne Illness Investigations »

    • USDA-chicken-inspection-406
      USDA Orders Poultry Processing Suspended at Foster Farms Plant for Cockroaches

      in same article as above

  • Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

    What is the temptation coming on the world?

    Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
    Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast,
    saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

    What is the word of His patience?

    Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

    Knowing what Jesus told you is the patience of His word.

    • @Ron, amen! We must be patient for his coming. Hold fast to our faith, no matter what. I would rather take that easy bus they all talk about, but I think it is stuck in the traffic of the tribulation…:-)

  • “And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh” (Luke 21:8-11, 25-28).



    • @Teresa, Amen Teresa, if only people will look at these scriptures with open and prayerful eyes and ears. It is all right there if they will set aside their little belief systems. 🙁

      • It is so simple, it just require removing you blind folds.

    • Teresa B:

      Check out John Hagee’s book The Coming Blood Moons!

      Incredible evidence that this is the 7th year arriving. 2014/2015. See Deuteronomy 15:1-2 for starters.

      This is so exciting to see what is coming this April, again in October, then a total lunar eclipse, then 2 more blood moons, one in March 2015 and the last on Sept. 2015.

      The next tetrad will NOT HAPPEN for another 200 years!!

      WE ARE the generation that saw the rebirth of Israel.

      Jesus has warned us of things to come and wants us to desperately know HE is coming for us. We are to know the “season” of his appearing for the church.

      In my heart of hearts, WE are in the season.

      The signs could not be more clearer.

      When you see these things happen, lift up your head, for your redemption is near.

      Look up Acts, 2 read verses 19 thru 21.

      Come quickly Lord Jesus.

      • Ya, but watch out, since he teaches that the Jews can get saved another way besides Salvation in blood of Jesus Christ! It’s in one of his older books, just read it if you don’t believe me!!! 🙂 Just saying!!

      • Jesus said no man knows, does Hagee? and shall deceive many! Not just a few.

        • @Ron, no he doesn’t. He preaches falsely!!! At least about this topic anyway!!

  • Promise Zones huh?

    Well, didn’t he promise us affordable health care?

    HUH? HUH?

    He’s playing right into the plan of our Lord. I am sure glad I know who’s really in control.

    Our God, even has many surprises for Satan, It’s kind of exciting to see how things are coming together so super fast.

    Anyone seen the book the Four Blood Moons?

    This will get you to pay attention to the Shmittah year we’re coming into. After the Blood Moons in 2014/2015 there will not be another Tetra for 200 years.

    Folks, we are the generation who saw the re-birth of Israel. Jesus wants you and I to know the season of when he returns for the church!!

    • Amen Steve,…I’m watching !










      • Everyone: I’m really sorry I keep miss spelling words! OOPS! LOL

        • If only that could be the least of our problems…:-)

      • Pastor LaRue:

        Interesting things you spoke of concerning Kerry.
        I am about 99% convinced Kerry is not the anti-Christ,I personally believe he (anti-Christ) will be a Muslim and come out of Turkey, but no matter who he is (appointed) it really does not matter to me because for the believer we are not to be concerned for we have been removed. I am just so excited we are on the threshold of Jesus coming with a shout.

        It’ll be fun to meet you above friend!!

        God Bless YOU!!


  • Sounds like the abysmal failure of LBJ’s “War on Poverty” is about to be repeated. Ah, those 2014 elections are clearly on the horizon . . .

    • @Carol, well I’m sure it will be another “fixed” election!! 🙂

  • Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
    Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
    Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
    Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
    Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
    Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
    Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
    Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
    Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
    Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
    Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
    Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

    The Virgins had to make it through the night and the darkness to meet the bridegroom. That night is the time of trouble which should tempt the world. but the foolish was not prepared for the darkness, even though they brought the lamps. So because of their foolishness they had to ask the wise for help. You can’t buy the anointing and even if you could you would have to buy it from the Lord. No it was not the anointing that the foolish was short of. It was the provisions for the night, the time of darkness. So they when to buy the provisions and because they took the mark so they could but, they missed God. They were not known of Him. Would it hurt you to put things back for your loved ones or friends if you do get raptured. I don’t think God would mind, if you was that thoughtful. You might just be wise, if you do!

    • Great post Ron!

      Bless you brother!

    • @Ron 😉

    • TeresaB. Its amazing looking at those tunnels under many different cities. It reminds me of Rev. 6:15- Flee for the caves under the mountains in a vain attempt to hide themselves from God!

  • Ron Murphy: In the Old Testament God requested his believers to give 10% of their wages to the poor. I’m not boasting, as I’m tryimg to prove my point, I give at least double each mouth to the poor, and yes, it goes to the street poor, not to some church ministers to support his family. But still it does not matter if I gave 50% of my pension each month, I will still fall short to God, because my deeds, will not allow me into heaven, only by grace in accepting Jesus Christ as my Savior, and accepting He died on the Cross and shed His Blood for me, so I could be allowed to enter into His kingdom.

    I take complete care of my wife’s parents financial burdens, I do not do it because I like them, but I believe this is what God wants me to do for them. I do it because of God’s love to me, that i need to share it with other.

    When I first accept Jesus’ Salvation, it made me feel so wonderful inside of me, I just wanted to share it with everyone. So I continue to share this love inside of me, in helping others, I do not consider this love I share with others, as a required deed!

    Please again, I’m not boasting!

  • Ron, I am wondering about something. We are supposed to make JESUS our example, not looking at others. You haven’t told us what you are doing to warn others or make sure your loved ones who are lost have some sort of message left for them.
    It would seem that you need to focus on what you can do, for that is what you will receive or loose rewards for. Me? I witness, preach, pray, put out and hand out tracts, Bibles, books on the end times, etc., I am still an unprofitable servant who is trying to do my best for the LORD, and I still am wanting and can do more, GOD save and help us. Maranatha LORD JESUS

    • Bill L: It seems after 13 months posting here on this web site, this web site is Ron’s purpose in life, to spread his message, I’ve never heard of all these deeds he said, we need to do for others to prove we are worthy of our Lord Jesus Christ.

      In that, Ron does not express himself much, I wonder what good deeds he’s doing for others than spending long hours on this web site posting his messages?

      • Bill L: thank you expressing your feeling through your faith in Jesus Christ how your helping others in your good deeds for others.

    • May the Lord bless your ministry Bill L.
      and although you may never see all the
      fruits of your ministry, Jesus does, so
      God Bless you !

    • Thank you Bill L.
      Thank you for all of the good work that you do for the Lord. You will surely reap rewards and the many souls that you meet in Heaven will thank you for their salvation because you took the time to tell them about the great salvation of Christ. Praise be to God and thanks to Him that He allows us to work on His behalf. He is very generous to us. Thank you for sharing.

    • You people don’t know me, why do you all judge?

      • @Ron,
        No one is judging you; you’re entitled to believe what you want to believe. But you seem to think you know what pre-tribbers think, but you don’t. We’re no more afraid than you, nor do we think that we’re better than the Christians who have died for Christ already. That’s where you go way off-track, and that makes it appear as you’re judging.
        It’s just hard for me to understand why you are so consumed with the tribulation. We know that you want a martyrs crown, but there are four other crowns. I would love to be found worthy of any one of them.
        To me, it’s TODAY that we should be concerned about. Let tomorrow take care of tomorrow. In Matthew 6:25-34, didn’t Jesus say not to worry that He even takes care of the fowls of the air. I am much more concerned about the salvation of my family and friends, TODAY, than the future tribulation. In the history of man, there has never been anything like the Great Tribulation, there is absolutely nothing to compare it to. But, does God want us to be so consumed with thoughts of such a horrible time that it takes away the joy of TODAY. I don’t think so. Also, if the timing of the Rapture was written crystal clear in the Bible, then there wouldn’t be so much controversy about it . All of us know that Jesus IS coming back for us, but when–I can’t say for certain. But, He will be with us to the very end. That’s good enough for me.
        Let’s all just keep praying for strength and courage and Thy Will be done. Amen.

        • Thank you for speaking truth, Blessings to you

        • @Tracy, good note Tracy. I can’t answer for Ron, but as one who doesn’t hold to the pre-trib view anymore, I have to say…I for one am not consumed with the Tribulation, but I do want to know as much as I can, and try to prepare Spiritually for it. I know there is no way I could make it through without the power of the Holy Spirit of God! I for one am looking for NO martyrs crown!!!!…Jesus take me away is my song…LOL But, if I have to be here, I am fervently praying for strength, leading, wisdom, knowledge, discernment of spirits, and to be full of his Spirit, like never before! I also pray that for all of God’s people, and the people who will be his people! As far as what you said here… “We’re no more afraid than you” about pre-tribbers, I would have to differ with that. Maybe you aren’t yourself, but we can’t answer for all! I know people that are scared to death of being here, and they are most diffidently looking for the “rapture” escape to get out of here. And I certainly can’t blame them at all! I am not looking forward to being here myself. If Ron is, he is a much stronger person than me. I would be lying if I said I wasn’t scared! Even if I know God is with me, it will be a most horrible time, than we could ever imagine in our little minds… I can’t even comprehend it. Thank you for being you Tracy. I love you in the Lord, and pray God will Bless you in all ways. suez

          • I agree, Sue. but I’m not afraid to die. I know my works will follow me! I don’t want to ever die, but that is not for this world, but for the next. Death is going to come to most of us. It would be a great pleasure going out for my King. Afraid, no, my faith is solely in Him. Looking forward, only once it’s over! But also remember that God’s going to pour His Spirit upon us, that know Him. Wow! What a revival coming! I’m almost as excited as Marie looking for the rapture, LOL.

  • Suez: this stubborness that you can not simply believe that we can be raptured out before the tribulation, its call a lack in your faith in Jesus Christ. and maybe you’ll get your wish also, to suffer in the Tribulation to prove you are worthy to enter God’s kingdom. But by this thinking of your, then God died in vain for you, that He came here for you, died a horrible death on the cross and shedding His blood for just you. Which we could be justified by His blood ( Romans 5:9). Because not all the good deeds you have done in the entire life, can replace one bad thing you did to another person in your life, but by forgiveness of our sins, by accepting Jesus’ Salvation, we will be allow to have glorified bodies and enter into his kingdom.

    Your making statements about others in 3rd world country, that are suffering greatly, that they do not believe the rapture will saved them. Question, have you ever been to a 3rd world country, live among them, suffered along with them. So you really know what they are thinking?

    Sounds like more guessing?

  • Suez: Why do not you contact Levi Pattar, he lives in a 3rd world country, India, he lives on $ 10.00 dollars a day feeding his wife and his two children. See if he believes your way, that suffering greatly, he does not even have a A/C for the hot summers in India, but he believes in the Rapture before the Tribulation.

    And in his 3rd world country, there is only 1% of the population, that are christians and he sufferes greatly spreading the word of Salvation to his people.

    • STL, your a very different person. I love Brother Levi, but I certainly do not need for him to believe the way I do, nor do I expect him or anyone else to believe the way I do. NOR do I care, if they do or don’t. He and anyone is very welcome in their belief. YOU are also. I force nothing at no one, and say so in my comments. I believe if you would re-read the main comment I made, I say very plainly, I can be wrong. And we each have to be lead as we are lead. So why don’t you get off of your “high horse”, as you say, and stop putting words in other peoples mouths? I have NEVER said I wanted to suffer in the tribulation. I have NEVER said, I look forward to it. I have NEVER said, I need to prove myself to God in that way. NEVER NEVER, have I ever said those things. Please speak truth and stop spreading lies about people!!!!! I for one am sick to death of your big bragging strife filled mouth! A person can take just so much, and I have come to the end of my rope with you. You prove over and over in your comments, that you have no love, no wisdom or knowledge in the Lord. You condemn yourself with your vile words to others. I feel pity for you. Good bye Steve.

  • SUEZ: Now your spreading that pre-tribbers have their (little belief systems) so your picking up where Ron Murphy left off, insulting the believers in believing that the Rapture does not come before the Tribulation?

    • @STL LIES!!! And more Strife…

  • Suez: if you believe so strongly in the Post-Tribulation Theory, join a Post-Tribber web site, that spreading your false testamony on this Pre-Trib web site?

    • @STL, this is a KING James Bible site STL, so beings you love the NKJ so well, maybe you better go to a NKJ site??? LOL

  • michael5313

    Wow, Isaiah predicted there would come a time of such confusion, that we would call “good” evil.

    I’m going to warn you right now, you’re going to be tapped on the shoulder soon. You should have plenty of toilet paper handy.

    You who disguise utter contempt and faithlessness as love and faith. Show me where you find “accuser” in 1 Corinthians 13.

    You don’t use the word of God to heal, you use it as a vehicle to propel hate.

    Who are you?↓

    Isaiah 5:20 KJV

    Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

  • michael5313

    Reeling, spiritual drunkards

  • Warsaw Ghetto coming to a city and town near you.

  • For years I believed & even taught in a pre-trib rapture. Until one day I asked myself why do many believe in a pre-trib rapture & why do many believe we will go through the Tribulation period before the Bride is ruptured, & why exactly do I believe in the pre-trib rapture? I came to realize that I believed in a pre-trib rap because that was what was passed down to me, that is what I was taught to believe. So prayerfully I decided to search the Scriptures for myself, & see what the authority of Gods Holy Scriptures truly teach on the subject? When I listened to scriptures that were used by pre, trib rap teachers to validate thier doctrine, I almost felt as though they were taken scriptures out of context & “fishing” for analogies that fit thier view point. However, the scriptures that I found that validate the teaching that the Church will be here for the duration, were much more solid, & with deep conviction. One of the pre trib rap teachers favorite & greatest scripture they live to use to support thier view is when Paul says, “For it is not appointed unto us to suffer wrath,…” And this is true, the true believer will not ever experience the wrath of God, for Christ, our Sacrifice of atonement, drank every single drop of the cup of Gods wrath for us, that through faith in Him, righteousness would be imputed & imparted to us in Christ. They use analogies such as God delivered Noah from Judgement that came apon the earth. God delivered Lot & his family from Gods wrath poured out apon Sodom & Gomorrah. However these are examples where God delivered the righteous from experiencing “His” wrath. What about when the anger & the wrath if the enemy is poured out? God did not spare the 3 Hebrew young men from the fire if the King of Babylon, He delivered them “in” the fire. God did not deliver Daniel from the Den of Lions, but delivered him “in” the den. What about the martyrdom death of the apostles? What about the millions through the centuries who have been persecuted, tortured & ultimately killed for the Name of Christ? America has never experienced any kind of persecution or martyrdom in her typing 237 years since her birth. We have been blessed, protected & free from any religious persecution. However, as the Lord has shown me, it is coming. Right now as I type this, 60% of the Church around the world are experiencing intense persecution & horrible, brutal & violent deaths to men, women, children & even babies because of His Name. We don’t hear of this on mainstream media, but its happening. Before communism came to China, the Chinese Christians knew & could feel the coming tribulation. Yet the American missionaries promised them to not fear, that they would be translated & realities before persecution would come. They should have been preparing the hearts of the Chinese Christians with the promises of God to cling to in the must of suffering & persecution, for hundreds of thousands of our brothers & sisters in the Lord perished under the Communist. The same happened in Africa. Its happening now in India & Egypt. It will happen here too in due time, & we will be here. In Revelations 13 it says the anti-Christ was given power to come against the “saints” & to overcome them for a season. To those who will be taken captive, into captivity he will go. (Fema camps I believe) And those who will be killed by the sword, then by the sword they shall be killed. “This will call for patient endurance & faithfulness in the part of THE SAINTS.” Friends, that’s you & I. My endowment is to now prepare for the coming tribulation. Fill yourselves with the promises of Scripture that will strengthen you in the time of great suffering that is coming apon this earth. Pray now like never before, & be strengthened in your inner being with the power of His might. We will be here for the duration my precious brothers & sisters.

    • Ricky: I’m sorry you feel that way, but all I can say, enjoy those horrible days in the Tribulation!

      • Well said Ricky. Pay no attention to the one who calls himself Pastor, he will be right next to us while (like he said) ENJOY THE HORRIBLE DAYS OF TRIBULATION. 🙄 What a terrible thing to say Pastor 🙁
        Remember this, that it is impossible for even two like-minded souls to agree on everything.

        I SAY AGAIN, that it is impossible for even two like-minded souls to agree on everything.

        • Engr: Remember when you told me you were joining me in hell. And I said you go first, if I do not show, please do not wait for me, I’ll already be in heaven. LOL

          When your in hell and I’m in heaven, then will you pay attention?

        • You can say that again! Eng. Great testimony Ricky, God Bless you , Buddy!

    • @Ricky, Amen Ricky and Thank you for you words of wisdom. Thank the Lord for opening your eyes, just as he did mine, as I used to also be pre-trib. Some eyes will not see, because they are to set in their comfortable belief, and won’t even as much as ask God if they could be wrong? That takes humility! Why is it so hard for us as human beings to think that we could possibly be wrong?? It takes sitting in the pride chair to ask God to take out our beliefs that may be self imposed, man caused, or devil made, and give us his truth, even if it upsets the apple cart so to speak! I thank you again for your loving post. Now wait for the attacks!! LOL Yours in Christ, Suez

  • I’m sorry Marie but I think you have responded to me by mistake. My comment was to Suez

    • Hi Dan,
      I did not mean to respond to you, I forgot to put names as to whom I was addressing. Sorry about that.

  • . . . and they will show their true colors.

  • Ive spent 2 years visiting this sight, keeping up to date on current events that the lamestream media is not publishing. Each post I ever read people are arguing the tribulation…if there is a pre, mid, or post trib rapture etc. I see points from each side and just want to share what I believe with my whole heart. Read Matthew 24. Mark 13 and Luke 21 give the same account. To take a few verses out of 1 Thess is of great error! A few verses that say two will be in the field working and one will be taken and two will be in the mills working and one will be taken is a grave error in believeing that is the pre trib rapture. Matthew 24: 29-31 paint the picture and tell u exactly when Jesus is coming! “29 ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, Is. 13.10 · Ezek. 32.7 · Joel 2.31 · Rev. 6.12, 13 and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven Dan. 7.13 · Rev. 1.7 with power and great glory.

    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
    KEY WORDS: IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS….if there are NO BELIEVERS DURING THE TRIBULATION, WHO is going to be here to help our struggling friends and family. ? There will be persecution of Christians, there will be mass distress on this earth. Christians are not getting a free ticket out of here before it gets bad…prepare your houses now and stand FIRM…keep preaching the gospel of Jesus to everyone you meet. That is our mission.

    • That’s great sunshine, You are a ray to warm my heart.
      God bless you and see you in heaven!

      • Ron Murphy: I just love how your padding Sunshine 78 on the back but in Sunshine 78 post 97, he told you without salvation you would not be going to heaven, so that would be impossible to see him in heaven!

    • @Sunshine Praise God for your open eyes. Thank God for your wisdom and Love!! 🙂

  • Ron and Suez…
    Frankly I am sick of this whole thing. Why don’t the post tribbers just leave the pretribbers alone and everybody just believe whatever they want. What I really don’t like about Ron is he is falsely saying what pretribbers believe and trying to tie it in with what we believe about salvation. He is lying about what we believe and that makes me mad and it is false and that makes you a liar Ron as you always accuse us of being.
    I care more about salvation than when there is going to be a Rapture. Why don’t you just drop it Ron and believe whatever want. But don’t put words in my mouth or even pretend to know what I believe.

    • Practice what you preach!

    • @Marie, you mean, Kinda like STL does the 7th trumpet-ters??? LOL 🙂

  • Ron and Suez:
    Ron and Suez are trying to tell people what I and others as pretribbers believe. You don’t know what I believe and I never told you what I believe and I never voted you as my spokes person. So do not tell me or others what I believe. You do not correctly or lovingly or accurately or truthfully represent the beliefs of the pretrebbers. All you do is to make false accustaions of what you accuse us of believing. Why do you persist?

    • Marie, dear. I have never said you have to believe like me. I said, this is how the Lord leads me. I NEVER said you have to believe like me. NEVER! And I never asked for your vote!! LOL I would never tell someone they have to believe as I do. I am not the Holy Spirit!!! But like I did say, at least ask God if you could be wrong, and then ask him to show you HIS truth. That is all I said. Thank you, and may God Bless you richly!! 🙂

      • Don’t patronize me and call me dear. Stop calling me STL and thank you for mocking my experiences withnessing. If you want to call me a street preacher I am honored, but you mocked me. Shame on you. You and Ron know very well that I am Marie. Why don’t the both of you grow up. And you did put words into the mouth of pretribbers and you mocked any Christian who has suffered for Jesus. You are a mocker Suez, you certainly are not my sister.

      • Sometimes you address me as Marie and then when convenient you accuse me of being STL. Get you story straight.

      • Suez: I don’t like your spirit, I saw it from the beginning.

    • @Marie, I have NEVER tried to tell you what to believe marie. You are most welcome to believe anything your heart desires. No skin off my back. I don’t know anything about you other than what you post here, so why would I attempt to do what you are falsely accusing me of…And as far as our, as you put them “false accusations and beliefs” that is a untrue. As you, I’m sure, do not know all scripture 100% accurately! As no one does! We can all be wrong at times. So, I hope you will reconsider your comments. I wish you no ill, I love you in the Lord. I wish we could agree to disagree and still love and care for one another. In Christ, s

  • Gee,… what a coincidence, ! Post tribbers
    comming out of the woodwork !

    • Yes Mike,
      In droves! Seems they would rather persecute than add anything useful or porductive to this website. What a shame. I think the woodwork has termites.

      • Termites did you say Marie, perhaps the
        owners of the house should get a pest
        inspection !

        • That’s what I’ve been saying…

      • The wood work does have termites , the pre tribbers!

        • Don’t do jokes Ron, your not funny !
          your abnoxious.

      • That is sad to me, if you think people that have differences of opinions than you, are persecuting you…I thought it was stating our beliefs or our opinions, just as you do. I for one am persecuting no-one. But, I am very entitled to express my beliefs in the scriptures. Last I knew it was still a free country. I suppose if I don’t use your brand of Kleenex, that would be wrong also, would you consider that persecuting you??? LOL That is about how silly this is! 🙁 We as believers should love each other, and encourage each other, but still respect each other enough, to have our own beliefs on the scriptures. We all grow in grace and the knowledge of God, and his Word, or at least we should. Some deeper, some not as deep. But we must love each other. It is a sad thing if we can’t come together in the Unity of the Lord Jesus and his gospel.

        • To Suez, (if you are really Suez, maybe you are STL).
          You do persecute Suez and then you and Ron pretend to be victims. Clever game you got going. Why don’t you ride your horse over to my house and look me in the face and tell me that I am not Marie. You can tell that to my husband too.
          You and Ron are pompous, arrogant and prideful. You attack and then claim you are VICTIMS. You are trouble makers to the brethern. God HATES that. You muddy the subject to cover up your vicious attacks. Hypocrites both of you. You too Suez have insulted my person to the point you say I don’t exist. You mock others suffering for Christ. You are exactly what the Bible calls you, SCOFFERS and MOCKERS.

          • @M, I am no victim! Never claimed to be. Wouldn’t want to be. I not prideful, no more than you I guess. We all have to fight pride, ALL of us. Stating opinions is not making trouble. You see it that way only because we don’t agree with you. I am no robot. I don’t have to agree with everyone. I have a brain of my own, which the Lord teaches me with his Holy Spirit. I don’t muddy anything or cover anything. I am a wide open vessel. I mock nothing. And I would NEVER mock anyone who is suffering for Christ. That is a Asinine remark even for you. Your mean spirited person. And I feel sorry for you. I pray God help you to love people, even if they don’t believe as you do. Have a great weekend. 🙂

    • @Mike, Yes isn’t it wonderful, that God is opening eyes to truth!! 🙂

  • ‘Hand of God’ spotted by NASA space telescope

    Tanya Lewis, LiveScience



    3 hours ago

    ‘Hand of God’

    What appears to be the shape of a hand in this new X-ray image captured by NASA’s NuSTAR telescope is actually a cloud of material ejected from a star that exploded.

    Religion and astronomy may not overlap often, but a new NASA X-ray image captures a celestial object that resembles the “Hand of God.”

    The cosmic “hand of God” photo was produced when a star exploded and ejected an enormous cloud of material, which NASA’s Nuclear Spectroscopic Telescope Array, or NuSTAR, glimpsed in high-energy X-rays, shown in blue in the photo. NASA’s Chandra X-ray Observatory had imaged the green and red parts previously, using lower-energy X-rays.

    “NuSTAR’s unique viewpoint, in seeing the highest-energy X-rays, is showing us well-studied objects and regions in a whole new light,” NuSTAR telescope principal investigator Fiona Harrison, of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, said in a statement.

    The new image depicts a pulsar wind nebula, produced by the dense remnant of a star that exploded in a supernova. What’s left behind is a pulsar, called PSR B1509-58 (B1509 for short), which spins around 7 times per second blowing a wind of particles into material ejected during the star’s death throes.

    As these particles interact with nearby magnetic fields, they produce an X-ray glow in the shape of a hand. (The pulsar is located near the bright white spot in the image but cannot be seen itself, NASA officials said.)

    Scientists aren’t sure whether the ejected material actually assumes the shape of a hand, or whether its interaction with the pulsar’s particles is just making it appear that way.

    “We don’t know if the hand shape is an optical illusion,” Hongjun An, of McGill University in Montreal, said in a statement. “With NuSTAR, the hand looks more like a fist, which is giving us some clues.”

    The red cloud appearing at the fingertips is a separate structure called RCW 89. The pulsar’s wind may be heating the cloud to produce the low-energy X-ray glow, astronomers believe.

    The X-ray energies seen by NuSTAR range from 7 to 25 kiloelectron volts, or keV, whereas the energies seen by Chandra range from 0.5 to 2 keV.

    The Hand of God is an example of pareidolia, the psychological phenomenon of perceiving familiar shapes in random or vague images. Other common forms of pareidolia include seeing animals or faces in clouds, or the man in the moon. Despite its supernatural appearance, the Hand of God was produced by natural astrophysical phenomena.

    • I apologize, the hand comes up this way, which I should have done 1st.

  • Gump reloaded

    GREAT!!!!! SOMEBODY IS THINKING ABOUT THE middle class $$$$.00

  • sunshine78

    Not coming out of the woodwork…just spent two years studying and praying for Gods Truth…I was pretribe for many years. Pretribe doesn’t make sense.. the reality is this tho.. pray for the best and prepare for the worst. We will know Jesus when He comes. Live each day walking closely with Jesus and pra y always for His guidance. He is faithful and will open eyes and hearts to the truth in His timing.

    • These people know nothing but insults. But if you say, get ready for tribulation, you really insulted them to the worse degree! They are however great training for the real thing. Welcome to the military academy. Hope you brought your armor, Sunshine.

    • AMEN, Sunshine! I love it. “Pray for the best, and prepare for the worst”. that is it in a nutshell!!! Someone once told me, when someone comes, saying he is Jesus, Pinch yourself. If it hurts, you are still in your flesh body, and it isn’t Jesus!!! LOL 🙂 Tee Hee!!!

  • Maybe instead of arguing about the timing of the Rapture, people would like to share their salvation story. They are always very inspiring to hear and very encouraging to all. I would love to hear them.

    • Marie that’s a wonderful idea!

      • Teresa B. We already tried that suggestion, remember, but as Ron goes, he could not stop his insulting comments for just one day, as he continues as he kept posting, if you disagreed with him, the insults just rolled out of his mouth.

        Or the time he insulted D city, he was knowledgeable preacher of scriptures, but Ron insulted him, and he left the web site, never to return.

        Or the time he kept hammering Levi Pattar, as he finally gave up on posting on this web site.

        Ron Murphy wants control of this web site and he’ll do whatever nasty thing is possible to make others to make them leave this web site!

        • Teresa B: But Ron said, he does it out of love and he needs to teach us the truth before its to late, even if we need to insulted us, those was his words.

          • STL yes I know, if memory serves me here, early on I questioned the name calling and was met with: It doesn’t matter if its harsh or hurts feelings it has to be done as its the truth. Really?

        • @STL, on and on it goes!! Where it stops no body knows…:roll:

  • Does it matter???
    pre or post trib. We all have work to do!

    • Amen Marie, very true!!!

      • Oh so now I am Marie again. Who is childish Suez. I am Marie when it is convenient for you and I am someone else when you don’t like what I say? Who is being childish here Suez, the mocker of those who suffer for Jesus.

  • sunshine78

    All I know from comments that I’ve read from the same certain people are rude argumenative and not Christlike at all. I have not said one negative thing to any of you but now I’m a termite. What is the purpose? Seems anyone who doesn’t carry your view is worthy of name calling . Maybe check whos spirit is in you…

    • sunshine 78, not sure why you would be defensive about that comment it is true. Just because there are some termites does not in anyway meant everyone is. Some are just more aggressive

    • Amen Sunshine, I’ve battled these spirits for a while now. But people will only see what they want to see and most of them see what they don’t understand as a threat. They will join in the fight, trying to devour the prey. But what they don’t understand little David has a big God on his side!

      • @Ron,
        You’re right about little David; but what you don’t understand is that God is for ALL Christians!! Those who are saved by Grace.

        • God will not stand with you if you are lying. You must love His truth, not change it.

  • Gee… I wonder if people could state their position without attacking the other position. Isn’t that a novel idea. State opinion, don’t attack opposite opinion. What a novel idea. Think it would work?

    • @Marie,
      That exactly the way it should be; but don’t hold your breath.

    • We’re safe, Sister. Thank you for your concern. It was close and we were there today, but we are safe and away from it.

  • sunshine78

    Point to ponder Maria….this isn’t about politics or being “politicaly correct”. Truth wrapped in love will always go further than lies wrapped in anger…just sayin..

  • sunshine78

    The core truth is that every saved Christ believing Christian will go home no matter if its pre, mid or post trib. Be watchful and in prayer constantly.

    • Sunshine78: You think Pre-tribbers are name calling, why do not you check how much name calling our local resident, Ron Murphy, the greatest Post-tribber of all has posted his prideful insults and his ego flys higher than its possible to breath.

      He’s calls himself a Christian, but he’s know to state he’s similiar to God Almighty, when he said, IF I WAS GOD, YOU WOULD BE IN GRAVE DANGER. Does that sound like an insult which was posted to Marie, or the time he said we are Satan decievers and we act like CLOWNS, and other times we believe in FABLES and FAIRY TALES, he even stated WHEN THE HOLY SPIRIT ENTERED HIM HE BECAME SINLESS, its a document in NTEB POSTS!

      So when you want to post the blame on someone, please check your facts?

  • Sunshine78: So where is the love, from Ron Murphy?

    He also said, I DO NOT NEED FAITH, to believe in JESUS CHRIST!

  • sunshine, I don’t know any one on this site
    that is ” politically correct”. We don’t gleem
    the post tribbers for the truth, we search the
    Bible, the word of God. And don’t need post
    tribulation rammed down our throats, on almost
    every topic put forth by NTB. You believe in post
    trib, then good for you, God is generous, I’m
    sure he will make good on your belief.
    God bless.

    • Hi Mike,
      I have really enjoyed conversing with you. I will miss that. You are intelligent and funny. I just wish there were a place where conversations could be held without all the attack. I will no longer participate in this insanity. This most recent attack came after you, STL and I were sharing our joy and jokes about the Rapture. I think they just cannot tolerate to hear about our joy. It bothers them. They want to spoil it. I am saving my energy for witnessing and doing the Lord’s work. Nice to have interacted with you and I will see you in Heaven.
      Your sister in Christ, Marie

      • Marie, God bless you and your husband,

        I have enjoyed the interaction as well, and
        found you to be a truthful sister in Christ.
        I know you did your best to share the wealth
        of knowledge and experience you have in
        Christ with others, but was treated with
        contempt. May God bless your witnessing in
        Jesus name, I shall pray for you and your
        I am myself preparing to leave, I have a friend
        who is old, past his used by date as society
        would label him. He lives 720 km from me
        ( 420 mls) I’m going to see him, and thank the
        people who have visited him, praise Jesus their
        are still some who care, while I’m there I will
        also witness to some of the isolated old folk
        there, they live in the bush and don’t get many
        visitors. So it looks like Jesus has us doing his
        work on the opposite sides of the earth. Isn’t
        it a blessing and an honour.

        See you in heaven sister God Bless.

        • Mike, I may come on when I see you post so as to converse wtih you, otherwise I am done…
          Bless you for visiting your sick friend at the end of his earth days and bless you for you witnessing to the other elderly. Their time is close to eternity. I take it you live in Australia. There are Jewish believers there who are Sabras, born in Israel… Hope to talk with later… Marie

          • @Marie,
            You have too much Biblical knowledge to share on this site to allow someone who insults to cause you to leave.
            Why don’t you reconsider?

    • Well said, well said Mike. I love intelligent discerning people.

  • Woe woe woe!!! U people are sooo argumentative!! I popped in and shared some verses. I didn’t attack ANYONES beliefs and yet I was a termite. Marias comment was totally divisional, as is rampant in our society, with this political correctedness….it has attacked every level of morals and beliefs and yet “Christians” are partaking in it just as much. We are called to be salt and light…not vinegar!!!! Good luck on your journeys of truth..I already know what I believe!

  • And God’s Word has been my source on my quest..not tv, not the internet…prayer (listening more than speaking) and time in His Word so before u ASSUME the source of my beliefs, get the facts first!!!!

    • @Sunshine. Me too!! So glad to meet you Sunshine. I do hope you will stay. I need the fellowship of like minded believers. If your not staying, my email is: zipmegolden@yahoo.com I would love the fellowship good like-minded christian women. I thank the Lord for your testimony. It seems very close to my own! 🙂

  • PS YES U NEED FAITH IN Christ!!! Sorry Ron…that is a requirement for salvation!

    • Ron Murphy: A post-tribber put you down, can’t believed I read that right, he said, you need faith its a requirement for salvation, so without salvation you’ll be in line for Judgement Day?

      • STL, only because of all the UN-truths you were spewing about Ron! That is why she said it. 🙁

  • Ron Murphy: If you want judging I’ll see want can be done about that since in your post 12 that your Physically Threatening Marie,

    I have contacted NTEB and NSA to see what they consider as bodily threats against another person, I bet by morning they will be contacting NTEB .

    • @STL,
      Good grief!! Calm down.

  • sunshine78

    We ALL will stand at the white throne of judgement…pre, mid or post tribbers…

    • @Sunshine,
      I think you meant we will stand at the Judgment Seat of Christ. The Great White Throne judgment is for the wicked.

  • Faith does not save you, even the devils believe. But you must have faith to be saved. The blood alone is what saves you, nothing else!

    • Ron Murphy: You really need some mental help!

      Listen to your comments on post 106: FAITH DOES NOT SAVE YOU, EVEN THE DEVIL BELIEVES:


      • @STL, It is in the bible STL….Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. Do you tremble Steve? Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

  • Japan had a 6.0 earthquake today, at the region where the nuclear plant was leaking, news reports now, the nuclear plant in in full meltdown and their is no way to stop it, their goes all the fish and sea creatures in all our oceans.

  • Tracy: since Ron Murphy believes his good deeds will get him into God’s kingdom, and faith does not save you, do you like my new name Ron posted just for me, It was my late Christmas gift, Pastor STL Has No Balls, was that nice of him,?

  • Obama’s lips are moving again with no brains involved. his of course. You’d notice he has an awfully small head which typically means a small brain, like a pigeon would have. He says he is smarter than most people and he may be right, he got voted in twice as President.

  • Tracy: I’ll calm down, as soon Ron get a real life and gets saved!

  • sunshine78

    Thx for the correction @Tracy….

  • sunshine78

    Can I ask an honest question? Can I ask the pre tribbers why they believe what they believe? I accepted it and believed it because family held the beliefs. The Left Behind books and movie perhaps? Its safe to assume that anything out of hollyweird or any new yorks best seller books aren’t reliable or trust worthy so where in the bible are u getting your beliefs confirmed? Its plain as day in matt mark luke john revelations and daniel on our Lords coming
    And the last days..just curious. Not sending darts…just wanna know how u are backing your beliefs.

    • @Sunshine,
      Your right in that our Lord is coming back for us; however, I honestly DON’T know for sure if it going to pre, mid or post tribulation.
      It’s going to take someone who is much more prophecy-filled than me to explain the Rapture. However, the reason for the different views is because some see it as two separate events, the rapture, 1 Thess. 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54, taking place before the second coming Matthew 24.
      But, regardless, He is with us until the very end, and we can claim that because He says that He will be.

      • Tracy, at least you are honest with your beliefs, I highly respect that. I would appreciate if you would hear me out. When Jesus comes back in Matthew 24, the people did not know the wrath of God was upon them, until these signs took place. Rev. 6:12 verifies this because when they saw it, they ran and hid in the rocks. But at this time, they did know what was going on. Rev 6:17 verifies it. The wrath of God consists of a length of time, one plague lasting 5 month, Rev. 9:5. Tracy, Jesus is not coming back to earth until the very last plague, to fight the battle of Armageddon. How do I know this? Simple!

        Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
        This gathering was done at the 6th plague, when the river was dried up.

        Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
        This previous verse clearly tells us that the battle was that of the Lord’s, that these spirits gathered them for.

        Rev 19:11 describes the readiness for that battle as Jesus leaves heaven for that battle in Rev 19:14, His armies following Him. Rev 19:19 ties to the gathering of Rev 16:14. They are the same.

        Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
        ” It is done”, signifies the kingdom belongs to Jesus, He is reigning and that is verified in Rev 11:14 also, at the last plague.

        Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

        If you can see, Tracy, then you will see that Mat 24:29 is the beginning of God’s wrath, not the end of it. Draw the conclusions. God be with you.

        • Tracy, the nations gathered to fight Israel, the 144000 that were left out of the sacking of Jerusalem, That is when the Lord pleads for His people there in the fields of Megiddon, just north of Jerusalem. Please read Zech. 14:1-5

  • @ Suez,
    Post #4——-Very good Word, felt the Spirit. Thank you, Sue. God bless you and yours.

    • @Brenda…Hey Bren, how are you? So good to see you dear one. Thank you. I just spoke from my heart. Wasn’t trying to change anyone at all. 🙂 I’m so glad your here!!

      • Hi, Sue, hope you are staying warm and dry. We are good. I left because the Lord told me to leave. I am going to post one more time and then leave again, for good. This is what I have to say, or what God said about these last days that we are living in. You also know, for you are well scriptured in the KJV Holy Bible. Take care, and sorry for anything I might have said to you that offended you in any way. Love in Christ. 🙂

        2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
        2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
        2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
        2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
        2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
        2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
        2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
        2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
        2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
        2Ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
        2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
        2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
        2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
        2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
        2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
        2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
        2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

        God bless all the children in Christ Jesus.

        • @Brenda, Amen sister, and the same heart felt I’m sorry to you also. Great scriptures. I will probably end up leaving yet again also. Who needs the lies and strife? Some will never listen and they will just have to get the big…Surprise,,,, Your still here, and now so is anti-Christ before they will realize. But, yes may God help us all and keep us in his care. I pray we will all be strengthened in the Spirit man ,encouraged in our faith, and that God will fill us with great faith, love, joy and peace, comfort, and boldness, in these last days. I love all of Gods children, even thou at times,,,they can irritate me to the uttermost…and some plain know how to push our buttons!!! LOL Drop a note sometime Bren, would love to keep in touch. Love and prayers, sue

  • Suez, Ron, Ricky, Sunshine,….they don’t want to hear the truth about the rapture. Suez, you gave them the verses, but they don’t believe the bible. Even pastor la rue..you are tickling their ears every sunday pastor, lying to the hearers. You will be held accountable for your lies sir. You have no excuse, the verses have been shown to you, yet you refuse to believe them. Step out of your denominational box and listen to the verses, they’ve been pointed out. I know it will be hard to swallow your pride and have to tell your flock that you’ve been lying to them all these years, but would you rather have your works burn up like wood hay and stubble? Start building on the right foundation. Suez gave the verses to prove a pre-trib rapture would be impossible…The LAST TRUMP, those 3 words alone should tell you. How many times are we told that we are to endure to the end? We as Christians think we are so special that we are going to just be pulled on outta here before anything bad happens? What makes us believers any more special then say- the 12 apostles? How did they die? What about his other disciples? They all were martyred. Believe the verses, Suez put them in her posts above. How many times does the bible have to say something before you’ll believe it? One time!…THE LAST TRUMP…now go to revelation and see what happens before that last trump. Why do you think all these fema camps all have guillatines in them? Christians will be beheaded for not receiving the mark and not departing from the faith/enduring til the end. Marie and tracy, I suggest you studyto show yourself approved unto God (2Tim 2:15) because you will not have pastor la rue to stand before god with you…what this pre/mid/post trib stuff comes down to is believe the word. What’s going to happen is that the pre-tribbers aren’t going to be raptured out and their faith will be overcome. Strong delusion is coming and it’s going to be pretty hard to resist when you have already been let down by your pre-trib rapture theories.

    • @Cam, thank you fellow Christian!!! You have spoken the truth. Hopefully at least one person will listen. It probably will not be Steven….Sadly. But, so very glad you joined us. So good to see others out there the Lord has been preparing. God bless you. 🙂

  • I pray that you would look again at the verses.

  • sunshine78

    Thx @Cam. The last trump solidifies the time of Jesus’ s return. You can’t be any more clear on that. I am really surprised with the negativity shown to others that don’t share their same view. Jesus told us to test the spirits to see whom one is following. How can curious people find truth when they pop in and join a conversation and get called names and ridiculed? I doubt Jesus would approach anyoe in that manner. He calls us to be gentle when we speak His gospel and I def don’t see gentle people on here! If we want to help people on their journey gentlness and love no anger and harshness. Just a suggestion.

  • sunshine78

    @cam….that whole post wasn’t directed at you. Just to claify.

  • michael5313

    The story of Jonah is about the false rapture. Jonah waits outside the city on a high hill for the destruction of Nineveh.

    Nineveh repents and Jonah then gets angry and jealous saying he wasted his time.

    The lesson wasn’t for Nineveh. God used Nineveh to show Jonah his patience and Love.

    The church has zero faith in God. Zero faith that the character of God alone will draw all men to himself.

    You believe most will be lost right? This cannot = Faith in the power of God’s character.

    Your faith is in words on a page. You forget, there are two in the field. You choose destruction for the wicked? You fail the test.

  • NTEB: One hour ago, since your blocking me, my Lawyers just file a lawsuit against you, for disallowing me my Freedom of Rights to post on your web site, and my lawyers getting a court order against you, so we can find out everyone email addresses, so they can be subprea to court also, your just a bunch of liberals.

    • Not liberals….. NSA stooges, as I have said repeatedly.

    • Ron Murphy:

      I have a few questions for you if you don’t mind. Let’s just say pre trib rapture did happen. What next?
      Will there not be people left behind that need to hear the message that we preach, to be ready for the antichrist, and who are they? Aren’t they our loved ones and friends who will have to suffer if they want to be saved. Don’t they need our message? Do pretribbers ever think about this, not one I O da. Because they are the most selfish Christians I know. They consider only themselves, and their blessed hope. Most won’t even hit a lick at a snake, thinking they deserve more from life, but not all of them. And you think you are ready to be raptured? Your Heart is not right with God. What would it hurt to be preparing for your family and friends for that time, if you did get to be raptured?
      Have you considered what the rapture was for? Mostly it is for the resurrection of the dead. The dead don’t have to go through the tribulation. The consolation of their resurrection is that the ones that remain here, just get to go with them, when the Lord comes in the clouds. It’s not about you saving your flesh and not suffering, Christians have always suffered. You have just been blessed in a time leading up to the end, the silence before the storm. It has spoiled you!

  • Suez: I guess I’ll meet you in court, finally meet you in person, My Lawyers file a lawsuit this morning in D.C. against this liberal web site, I guess we all need to look for another web site to post our comments to each other, maybe Ron can start one.

  • This web site is addicting!

  • Marie: Don’t worry we all will be meeting in person soon!

    • I’m shaking in my boots. I’ll bring my cousin who is a high powered attorney from Chicago!! See Ya!!! LOL 🙂

      • Suez: Good bring him, but you need to pay his cost, sell your husband corvette, to pay for those lawyer fees!

  • Teresa B: Its Suez and Ron Murphy changing names on this web site, just to make their ego’s look good against Marie. I email her daily in personal email conversation, as I do with SUEZ/Sue, Post-tribber say they love everyone, but by their words of actions against Marie, prove their only words, but their is no proof of love from them. The act just like our USA government does to the Middle Class of people in the USA!

    • @STL, Steve please stop spreading lies. Saying things you know nothing about. I have NEVER changed my name. I wouldn’t even know how to do it, your really something aren’t you? Pro 17:4 A wicked doer giveth heed to false lips; and a liar giveth ear to a naughty tongue.

      • STL Since my name Is mentioned I will say this. People who write regularly have a pattern and it comes thru in the new person comments so very little is hidden. I am very sure some accused on here are NOT guilty of such. AND as I said, it is cruel to do these things, but then who gives a rip right? Satan is in control in those situations or people wouldn’t react the way they do

  • Mike: In the news from the heat there, alot of animals are dieing?

  • 150 scripture PROVING Pre-Tribulation

    Jesus, Paul, John & Daniel on Rapture!
    By Mike Taylor

    1st Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    I will start with the witness of our Lord and Savior’s apostle to the Gentiles and taught personally by revelation of Jesus Christ glorified. I had been reading in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians this weekend, and was just so swept away with Paul’s testimony towards this Church that he founded in the name of Jesus. There is much controversy about what Paul was speaking of and it’s timing. I will in this sermon address those controversies of factions of the religious community that read, what I feel, is not what Jesus, or Paul, John or Daniel was speaking of when it comes to these last days and the appearing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I get every now and then nay sayers to the concept of the church being removed out of the way, from receiving God’s Divine Wrath upon a sinful world that is in full rebellion to His Law, and the only substitution for redemption of the breaking of God’s Commandments, is in the blood sacrifice of His Only Son, Jesus Christ, which they reject.
    Let us first go to 1st Thessalonians and read what Paul instructed this early church on what was coming, and was not only for their ears, but was written down for our admonition in these last days. 1st Corinthians 10:11
    As is typical for Paul in his letters, he greets them in love in his opening lines to each of the brethren written to. But in reading on down we come to the first hint that Paul was speaking of a coming event that is yet to transpire. In verse 9, he begins his first nugget of a truth that I have always embraced:
    1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
    1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
    Paul is writing to the church members and Revelation had not even been written yet by John. He speaks of wrath?
    You can find many examples of God’s wrath to come, even starting in the Old Testament concerning what is coming: Psalms 110,
    110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
    110:5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
    110:6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
    Paul speaks of it in Hebrews (I believe Paul is the unmentioned author) concerning the wrath of God,
    12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
    12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
    12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
    12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
    Of course, we can get a feel of God’s wrath when we go to Revelation, but this book is not the only place that speaks of God’s wrath, but we get the intensity and fierceness of the idea:
    6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
    6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
    6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
    6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    Understand one thing my reader, the coming time of tribulation is divine judgment on a world devoid of love for one another, and committing untold sinful acts in complete rebellion to God’s Law and authority, and who have whole-hardheartedly rejected the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the only payment for their sinful condition. Do we not understand that God will destroy up to 2/3 of all mankind in natural environmental catastrophes and what only be assigned extraordinary Divine occurrences not known to man in modern times and can only be attributed to Almighty God? Let us guesstimate the carnage that will be inflicted on this world, if all of us were still on this planet and none of us were removed. Right now we are approaching or have eclipsed the 7 billion mark of humanity on this planet. If we somehow envision the destruction of 2/3 of all mankind, that would be 4.69 billion people dying a horrible death leaving a little more than 2 billion people left. God warned that He will punish the inhabitants of the earth.
    Isaiah 26:20
    26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
    26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
    26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. (A clear passage of divine intervention and removal of His people before He slays mankind on earth)
    Oh, I hear the naysayers who say that the last trump in the opening verses are the same trump that the 7th angel blows in Revelation, but fail to understand that Paul was speaking of a last trump associated with the Feast of Trumpets. For a detailed summary of my position on this gross error by some churches today, go to my website and read “Confusion over End-time Events”. In it the conflict over this trumpets will be explained.
    Paul steps it up a bit in the next chapter of 1st Thessalonians chapter 5:
    5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
    5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
    5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
    5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
    5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
    5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    How much more clear can Paul say it? Do you think that the coming of the Lord when He comes to rule on this planet for 1000 years will be proceeded in secret? Do you think He will come when they expect it not? Paul talks of sudden destruction, as woman in child labor will not escape the pain or the delivery of the baby. What fits this scenario, a sudden, without warning snatching away of children of light, to the horror of the children of darkness…OR would it be more plausible for them to be going about business as usual in the very run-up to the Glorious Appearing of Jesus Christ in the clouds of glory with great power (probably proceeded by a great appearance of fire and light, I hypothesize). With almost 5 billion people being consumed, dead bodies all around, animals eating the corpses of those slain, and the carnage of divine retribution, would it be business as usual? Let us examine the signs of His final appearing, shall we? Will it be business as usual? I think you know the answer!
    8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
    8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
    8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
    8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
    ON down,
    8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
    Reading on down the horror that is unleashed by this fourth angel till we get to the fifth angel:
    9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
    9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
    9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
    9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
    More pain and suffering/death when the sixth angel sounds his trumpet:
    9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
    9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
    9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
    Then to the end of the chapter 9, descriptions of a most detailed description of what will befall rebellious mankind. Until, the seventh angel sounds his trumpet to unleash the final assault upon earth to turn them to repentance, but God knows that they will not.
    Does this sound like Jesus coming back to this earth as a thief? Will not men know that they are under divine retribution? Will the world that is present be nearly extinguished of all life from what it was prior to the beginning of the opening of the 1st Seal, as found in Revelation 6:1? Will men be going about business as usual? Men’s hearts will be failing them from fear, over what is coming upon the earth. Luke 21:26.
    Sheer terror will reign supreme. Does this sound like business as usual? Naysayers, ask yourselves, does this sound like as in the time of day of Noah (Matthew 24:37), or does it sound like there is another time period prior to these events that addresses this more realistically and prophetically? Think on that a bit, as I return to Paul addressing the Thessalonians in 2nd Thessalonians.

    After these verses, if we believe that Jesus will forcefully remove His bride according to Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18.
    And if we believe in any other teachings beside the Pre-Trib removal of the church through the Rapture, then let me drop something on you to think about. If during the Great Tribulation all will be required to take the mark of the beast and all who do will be damned according to Scripture, right?
    If you refuse the mark, you will be killed either by ruling beast power, or the followers of this power. If the Post-Millennial view is correct, with all the environmental upheaval, the divine judgments, the loss of life of upward of 2/3 of the entire planet destroyed leaving either the damned or the saved, then when Jesus Christ breaks through the clouds and the saved are transformed into spirit beings and the ones with the mark of the beast are destroyed, my question is: Who will enter the Millennium in their mortal flesh?
    You see the problem? There will be no one left alive, or in mortal flesh that has not been changed to spirit to even populate the Kingdom of God and produce human beings of flesh as expressed in your Bible. The only teaching that makes sense is the coming of the Lord for His church prior to the Tribulation, then the Second Advent of Jesus Christ to set up His Kingdom for a thousand years in that order. God through the Holy Spirit has called a remnant that will believe unto salvation in this age of the dispensation of the church. When Jesus comes back He will come for one final battle of swift judgment and this verse caught my eye and further proves that when He comes back and it opened this sermon:
    Revelation 17:14 “These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.”
    Folks, that is: You and me of the dispensation of grace.

    Here the church at Thessalonica was troubled, as false prophets had entered into their midst and were preaching that the “Day of the Lord” had already happened. I call them “Ancient Preterist” who believed that all things had been fulfilled, and we were just waiting for Jesus to come back, except this church at Thessalonica understood the Day of the Lord, as judgment and wrath, not a sign of joy.
    Paul admonished them:
    1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
    1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
    1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
    1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
    1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
    Paul re-teaches them what he had already told them concerning the coming “Day of the Lord”.
    Why were they fearful? They believed that they had missed the coming of the Lord for His Church and were found wanting and not fit to be removed from the earth and were waiting for the judgment from God, which would mean they missed the greatest event in all of man-kind, next the crucifixion and resurrection of their Lord and ours, Jesus the Messiah. Paul explains:
    2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    Paul explains that this MUST happen first before the Great Day of the Lord, and His judgment upon earth. John reveals in Revelation that this man is revealed by a number:
    13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
    13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
    13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
    This is what Paul spoke of, and what John through the Revelation of Jesus Christ shared with us. He spoke again of this man. Going back to Paul, as he continues in chapter 2 of 2nd Thessalonians,
    2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
    2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
    2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
    2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
    No where in history after this time period has a man stood in the temple and claimed to be a god. Only once in the history of the nation of Israel had a man stood in the temple and claimed to be a god, and it was many centuries before this verse was penned by Paul. What he is telling us, is that prophecy has duality, or will repeat itself in our time, and remember, these verses were written for us in modern end times, not just of the church Paul and John wrote them to. Who was that man who stood in the temple and a fore runner of the modern Abomination who causeth Desolation, as Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15? His name was Antiochus Epiphanies, and he made a statue of Zeus, with his face and put it in the Holy of Holies in the Temple of Jerusalem and proclaimed all must worship it on pain of death. He also sacrificed pigs on the altars of God, which were considered unclean. So this man defiled the temple that led to the Maccabean War and the observance of Hanukkah, or cleansing of the temple. As Jesus prophesied, and as John and Paul revealed, it will happen again.
    Let’s look at verse 7 of this last passage. We, as watchmen on the wall, have hammered this home many, many times. Students, who is “only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.”? If you said the Holy Spirit, you receive an A+, as by interpretation in context, it is the only thing that is holding back Satan the devil, having full sway on this earth and attempting full destruction of mankind, along with receiving worship for himself.
    2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 King James Version (KJV)
    6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
    7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way
    For me, this is a strong argument that the church has been removed out of the way, BEFORE the man of perdition, whose name is 666, is revealed and stands in the temple of God, claiming to be god. Note that Jesus said that He would never leave us or forsake us, Hebrews 13:5, Matthew 28:20, hence He sent His Holy Spirit, as counselor, comforter, and guider of our walk with our Lord and Savior. If God’s Holy Spirit is removed, based on the clear Word of our Lord, who cannot lie, we will be removed as well.
    Daniel chapter 9, and the Abomination that Causeth Desolation
    KJV Daniel 9,
    9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
    9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
    I read where a national organized religion that split apart in the 80s, called the World Wide Church of God, interpreted that passage not to be the Anti-Christ, but the Messiah. Still in existence are pocket organizations who still adhere to this argument, in their attempt to discredit the concept that there will actually be an Anti-Christ, or argue against a 7 year tribulation. They are proponents of post-tribulation second coming and are anticipating, no relishing the idea of being slain in the Tribulation. When I read that explanation, I was aghast. I went to a website of theirs and pulled this text:
    “The most abused verse on the subject of the end times is Daniel 9:27, and it is a linchpin in the Pre-tribulation Rapture theory: ‘Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.’Unlike the Protestants, we believe that “he” in this verse refers to Messiah, not Antichrist, for the main subject of this section is Messiah. Richard Ritenbaugh, Prophecy Watch.

    True, the beginning of the passage deals with Jesus Christ, but He did not cease the sacrifices in the temple. It continue unabated until 70 AD when the Temple was leveled to the ground by Roman soldiers of Tiberius. Then they go onto to say that:
    In Isaiah 28:15, we protestants and “a covenant with death,” say that the Antichrist makes a peace treaty for one week—seven years—with the Jews. But this makes no sense! Why would the Beast “destroy the city [Jerusalem] and the sanctuary” (Daniel 9:26), and “then . . . confirm a covenant . . . for one week”
    In this analogy, they deny the clear implication of Daniel’s 70 week prophecy that was interrupted when Messiah was cut off in year 483 of the prophecy. That leaves the last 7 years that must be completed for Israel to be saved and receive their Messiah. Obviously, they don’t understand the time-line of history, or duality of prophecy. I think anyone, including this minister, is blinded by their ideology of a failed organization that proposed that the second return of Jesus Christ would be in 1972, hence many members of this denomination sold all they had, took no social security, or started living in caves. I recall the cry of “flee in 73” as their mantra. Did it happen? No, much like Harold Camping’s failed prophecy, false prophets are all within the camp of the religious and doomed to their predictions of when or how Jesus will return. Now is Mr. Ritenbaugh a false prophet? I am not singling him out, but it is a mindset of many post tribbers that this promise of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is suspect and that we all are all full of hogwash is rampant in this denomination and others just to be fair.
    Others in this camp, propose that when Jesus comes in the clouds of heaven to receive His church, that we will be changed. Yes, but then they propose that we turn right around or make a sharp U-turn and come right back down to do battle with the enemies of God. They site Zechariah chapter 14, when Jesus’ feet touch the Mount of Olives. I asked one minister I know, “are we going up to just saddle up?” coming with Jesus on horses, dressed in linen, white and clean as Revelation chapter 19 shows? He had no answer. And what about the Marriage Supper of the Lamb? He proposed it was poetic or an allegory….say what?
    Let’s examine scripturally what Daniel was referring to and that a vast majority of theologians that are scripturally sound embrace. I take this from an online website to organize the thought process of examining this passage, which I totally agree with:
    “Here are the Sixty nine (7 + 62) “WEEKS” that have already Happened
    Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be SEVEN WEEKS , and THREESCORE and TWO WEEKS: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

    Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (note the caps of Prince, and prince, my emphasis. Two different “princes”. Prince of Glory, and prince of this world)

    Here is the ONE “WEEK” that Remains
    Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for ONE WEEK : and in the MIDST of the WEEK he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Since God said he would deal with the Jews as a NATION for SEVENTY “WEEKS” and He promised to regather them nationally in the future in preparation for His Coming, then, God plans to deal with the NATION Israel in the future for ONE “WEEK” before He returns. To say that ONE WEEK of Daniel 9:27 has already happened (since God says He will regather Israel as a NATION) is to say there will be 71 WEEKS. To say that the week WILL NOT happen in the future is to say there are less than SEVENTY “WEEKS.”

    Since we already know (from the 69 weeks that HAVE happened) that a “WEEK” is SEVEN YEARS, then, God must have a future dealing with the NATION Israel for SEVEN years.”
    Spot on. Israel is the door to end time prophecy and Jerusalem is the key to that door. The Seventieth Week of Daniel’s prophecy is future and deals with ISRAEL solely for their unbelief and to finish transgressions. Israel will embrace, finally, their Messiah and proclaim, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord” Matthew 23:39. Our Father and our Lord and Savior will purify Israel as silver is refined in the fire. Malachi 3:2. When Jesus spoke in Matthew 24, concerning the Abomination that Causeth Desolation, His message was pointed straight at Israel. I envision that the only ones who will remain when Jesus returns for divine judgment and take possession of His creation by the sword of His mouth, by speaking only the Words. He will destroy all rebellion, which by my belief will be mostly Gentiles, because the only ones who will listen to the 144,000 Evangelist from the 12 tribes of Israel, will be of the nation of Israel proper, or those scattered over the earth. How many will be blinded to the truth and take the mark of the Beast is conjecture on my part, but is is prophesied that God will send them a lie, 2nd Thessalonians,
    2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
    2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
    Note that if you are still here, then God will send you a strong delusion, A LIE, that you will believe because you want to. Your mind will have no protection, as the Holy Spirit is GONE, VANISHED, right along with His Church. Satan will have full sway, full unimpeded powers to deceive the human mind. Each of those left will embrace the false god of this world, known as the Anti-Christ, no matter what another religion might feed you. So as a watchman on the wall, I have given you witness of four of the major figures in your bible, John, Paul, Daniel, and the Master, Jesus our Messiah. I report, you decide. Understand, that I am not preaching to scare you, but to warn you. There is coming a day when salvation will be mostly for the Jewish people, as the Church Age has suddenly ended for you, and you have been caught flat footed. You were not ready, and Jesus has come, as He said He would. Won’t you make yourself ready. Wanna know how? Email me after reading John 3:16 then all of the Gospel of John, just who this man Jesus was, and IS….the great I AM, that I AM…Jehovah God. Repent for today is the day of salvation.
    The Rapture and the Timing of the Two Witnesses
    By Paul Kocourek
    More proof that the Rapture is Pre-Trib is hidden in the timing of the Two Witnesses. The evidence for this becomes clear as we investigate the question of when the Two Witnesses’ ministry begins—during the first half of the Tribulation, or during the second.
    Students of Bible prophecy from the dispensational viewpoint understand there is a Tribulation period of 7 years prior to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. During this time, God and Satan vie for the souls of men. Satan introduces his infamous 666 mark that all men must accept to worship him, or die by beheading. God, on the other hand, extends a last-minute opportunity for men to receive forgiveness for their sins through faith in Jesus Christ. One of the things taught in Revelation is that God uses Two Witnesses to preach Jesus Christ. The question before us is: When will the time of the Two Witnesses’ ministry occur within the Trib period’s 7 years? The answer to this question also helps demonstrate why the Rapture is Pre-Trib.
    The 7-year Trib period comes from the prophecy of the 70 weeks in Daniel chapter 9, where each “week” is a time period of 7 years. The Tribulation period is the last, or 70th, “Week” of that prophecy. This prophetic week is divided into two halves, each 3½ years long. (Daniel 9:27) It needs further to be said that those years are not our familiar calendar years of 365¼ days each, but are actual Jewish lunar years of 360 days each, where each month is exactly 30 days each. That being said, each half of the Trib period is 1,260 days long, the same number of days as the ministry of the Two Witnesses:
    “And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” (Revelation 11:3)
    We are further taught just who these Two Witnesses are:
    “These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord.” (Revelation 11:4)
    This corresponds to an Old Testament prophecy given to Israel through an angel of the Lord in Zechariah chapter 4. First the prophet sees a vision in verses 3-4, and some verses later asks the angel to explain what he was seeing:
    “And I answered the second time and said to him, ‘What are the two olive branches which are beside the two golden pipes, which empty the golden oil from themselves?’ So he answered me, saying, ‘Do you not know what these are?’ And I said, ‘No, my lord.’ Then he said, ‘These are the two anointed ones who are standing by the Lord of the whole earth.'” (Zechariah 4:12-14)
    The verse in Revelation 11:4 ties the two Scripture passages together, so that when the Tribulation period is underway, the descendants of Israel who see the Two Witnesses will understand from the book of Revelation that the Two Witnesses are the anointed ones Zechariah foretold would be coming.
    Now concerning the number of 1,260 days, I do not believe the sameness of half the Trib period and the ministry time span of the Two Witnesses is a coincidence. Some students of Bible prophecy think the Two Witnesses’ 1,260 days of ministry is aligned with the first half of the Trib period, while others believe it aligns with the second half. This latter view is primarily due to Revelation 11:3-13 (which is the entire story of the Two Witnesses) being found between Revelation 9:13-21, which describes the “second woe” (i.e., the sixth angel trumpet judgment), and Revelation 11:14-19, which describes the “third woe” (i.e., the seventh angel trumpet judgment).
    However, some careful thought will show that the 1,260 days of the Two Witnesses’ ministry cannot be located, time-wise, in the second half of the Trib period.
    First, consider the nature of exactitude with God’s numbers. When He says 1,260 days, He doesn’t mean 1,261 days or 1,259 days. When dealing with these Tribulation time figures, we will find them expressed differently in Scripture, but all are exactly equivalent. There’s “a time, times and half a time” (Daniel 7:25), which is repeated in Revelation 12:14 and also defined for us in Revelation 12:6:
    “Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred sixty days.” (Revelation 12:6)
    “But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.” (Revelation 12:14)
    From this we know “a time, times and half a time” = 1,260 days. Likewise, the time of the reign of the Antichrist is given in Daniel 7:25 as “a time, times and half a time,” and is repeated in Revelation 13:5 as “42 months.”
    “He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times and half a time.” (Daniel 7:25)
    “There was given him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.” (Revelation 13:5)
    By this we know that the Antichrist’s reign in Revelation 13:5 (i.e., 42 months) is exactly 1,260 days, not a day more nor a day less. In Daniel 9:27, from which (as we have already seen) we derive the 7-year length of the Trib period, we find the Antichrist committing the Abomination of Desolation. The Abomination of Desolation is an act of sacrilege in which he enters the temple of God and puts a stop to Jewish worship sacrifices, and demands to be worshipped as God himself:
    “Who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.” (2 Thessalonians 2:4)
    We know from Daniel that this event occurs in the exact center of the Trib period’s 7 years:
    “…but in the middle of the week [i.e., 1 prophetic week = 7 Jewish lunar years] he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering, and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate…” (Daniel 9:27b)
    The Abomination of Desolation makes the temple of God “desolate.” Please carefully note that Antichrist will continue his reign until he is destroyed:
    “…even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.” (Daniel 9:27c)
    This can only mean that Antichrist, whom we have seen reigns for 42 months, is destroyed according to God’s decree, at the 1,260th day of his reign, not one day more or less. This destruction of the Antichrist is revealed in Revelation chapter 19 at the Second Coming. There, the Antichrist and his associate in evil, the False Prophet, are dealt with in finality:
    “…these two were thrown alive in the lake of fire…” (Revelation 19:20b)
    Now, you might say, “Okay, so the Antichrist is destroyed after reigning exactly 1,260 days. So what’s that got to do with the time of the ministry of the Two Witnesses?” I’m glad you asked. In Revelation 11, after revealing the effects and nature of the Two Witnesses’ ministry, it records for us:
    “When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.” (Revelation 11:7)
    We are further told the Two Witnesses’ bodies will lie in the streets of Jerusalem for “three and a half days.” (Revelation 11:9b) Revelation goes on to say:
    “But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them.” (Revelation 11:11)
    For argument’s sake, let’s assume the ministry of the Two Witnesses really is aligned with the second half of the Tribulation. Follow with me the following time sequence based on that assumption:
    At the Tribulation period’s midpoint, the Antichrist commits the Abomination of Desolation. (Daniel 9:27) That same day, the ministry of the Two Witnesses begins, and they minister for the ordained 1,260 days, which is also the length of the Antichrist’s reign. Then, on the final day of the Antichrist’s reign, he kills the Two Witnesses. But! Jesus comes back right then also and has the Antichrist and False Prophet thrown into the Lake of Fire. Despite this world-shaking event of the Second Coming, the world nonetheless watches the bodies of the Two Witnesses for 3½ more days, even while Jesus is judging the nations (Matthew 25:31-46) and setting up His kingdom. Still following that time sequence, after those 3½ extra days, the bodies rise to life again and there’s a great earthquake. (Revelation 11:13) Then the third woe occurs (Revelation 11:14), meaning the next angel, the one with the seventh trumpet, blows his horn. (Revelation 11:15-19) And that’s not even counting the seven Bowls of Wrath that additionally follow after the Seventh Trumpet.
    All this happening 3½ days AFTER the Second Coming?
    Does anybody besides me see a problem with this?
    It is simply a fact that the seven Seals, seven Trumpets and seven Bowls all are completed BEFORE the Second Coming. The time of the Two Witnesses’ ministry CANNOT be in the second half of the Trib period. Even if we allow that the Revelation passage of the Two Witnesses is isolated, time-wise, from the progression of the sixth and seventh Trumpets (which, in fact, it is), we still can’t have the time of their ministry in the second half. The world rejoices and gloats over the death of these two men of God and gives gifts to one another in a satanic celebration during those 3½ days (Revelation 11:9-10), something that would have to be happening while Jesus has already returned to Earth. Does anyone seriously expect that Jesus, then returned to Earth in His power and glory as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, would ALLOW that? I don’t think so!
    May I suggest a simpler explanation that does not cause impossible conflicts like those shown above?
    In Revelation 9, John is describing a time point in the progression of the 21 Judgments where those judgments are well past the middle point of the Trib’s 7 years. In the next chapter John is told, “You must prophesy again concerning peoples and nations and tongues and kings.” (Revelation 10:11b) This means that the “clock” of the Trib period is being reset back to the Trib period’s beginning to describe what follows next.
    John then describes in Revelation 11:1-2 the temple of God. This HAS to be in existence in the first half of the Trib period in order for the Antichrist to enter the temple to commit his Abomination of Desolation at the midpoint of the Trib. This is proof that the time sequence of Revelation 11:1-13 is in the first half, meaning both the temple and the Two Witnesses are present when the Trib starts. To me this also implies that the temple has to be already fully built when the Trib period starts, for the instruction in Revelation 11:1 says, “Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, ‘Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it.'” You can’t hand a measuring rod to someone to measure something that isn’t built yet. The instruction implies he is being ordered to measure a completed item, not something under construction.
    As Revelation 11 moves along, John signals that the Revelation 10:11 “reset” (back to the beginning of the Trib period) has ended, and the countdown of the 21 Judgments has resumed. He does this by saying:
    “The second woe is past; behold, the third woe is coming quickly.” (Revelation 11:14)
    When the first day of the 7-year Trib period (i.e., Daniel’s 70th week, Daniel 9:27) begins, it is then that the Two Witnesses appear; their ministry begins on Day 1 of the Trib period, and ends on Day 1,260, when the Antichrist commits the Abomination of Desolation and goes out to murder them.
    Now, when you see the impossibility of the time of the Two Witnesses’ ministry being in the second half, thus requiring that it be in the first half, you can see the evidence for the Rapture showing clearly as Pre-Trib. Think about it for a moment. The Church of Jesus Christ is commanded to be Jesus’ witnesses. (Acts 1:8) Why would God put into operation these two spectacular witnesses to bear witness of Jesus Christ, if the Church were still on Earth to do that job as it has for the past 2,000 years?
    However, with the Pre-Trib Rapture happening, billions of people will suddenly have no one to tell them about Jesus. The Christians will all be gone. However, with the time of the Two Witnesses’ ministry beginning on Day 1 of the Trib, people will be hearing about Jesus despite the disappearance of Christians in the Rapture. I believe it is the ministry of the Two Witnesses that brings to faith the 144,000 male Jews of Revelation 7:1-8. These Jewish men finally believe in Jesus, and realize that the time is short, and while the Two Witnesses minister to Israel, the 144,000 spread out over all the Gentile nations to share Jesus Christ. Someone has compared it to 144,000 Billy Grahams let loose on the world at once!
    This, too, is an evidence that the Rapture is Pre-Trib. As said earlier, Jesus gave to His Church the job of being witnesses to Him. (Acts 1:8) Why would God now use two Jewish witnesses doing the miracles of Moses and Elijah, and 144,000 Jewish men to share the gospel, unless it were necessary because the Church is no longer on Earth to do the job?
    The result of the ministry of the 144,000 is a great number of saved souls “…which no one can count out, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues…” (Revelation 7:9b) They cry out, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne and to the Lamb.” (Revelation 7:10b)
    In conclusion, the understanding that makes the best sense is that the ministry of the Two Witnesses begins on Day 1 of the Tribulation period. They win the 144,000 to Christ, who then go out in the world to win uncountable numbers of souls. The Two Witnesses continue their own ministry in Israel, performing the miracles of Moses and Elijah (i.e., turning water to blood, etc.). (Revelation 11:5-6)
    It is important to note that in doing the miracles of Moses and Elijah, the Two Witnesses represent the testimony of the two authorities acknowledged by the sons of Israel, the Law and the Prophets. When giving “The Golden Rule,” Jesus referenced that same authority the people knew when He said, “In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 7:12) When Jesus had taken Peter, James and John to the Mount of Transfiguration, they met Moses and Elijah, who epitomize the Law (Moses) and the Prophets (Elijah). (Luke 9:20) When Jesus rebuked the scoffing Pharisees, again He spoke of the Law and the Prophets. (Luke 16:14-16) Also, after His resurrection, Jesus appeared to two disciples on the road to Emmaus, and taught them about Himself out of the Law and the Prophets. (Luke 24:25-27)
    During the Tribulation, the sons of Israel will be seeing, with their own eyes, the Two Witnesses performing the miracles of Moses and Elijah, and will be hearing, with their own ears, the testimony of those two authorities, representing the Law and the Prophets, preaching Jesus Christ.
    At the end of their ministry, on Day 1,260, the Antichrist goes into the temple of God and commits the Abomination of Desolation. Then the words of Jesus become terribly clear:
    “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.” (Matthew 24:15-16)
    The Antichrist slays the Two Witnesses, and the Trib period now begins its second half. The Antichrist then goes after God’s people in a massive persecution that will permit no worship except to him. It says in Scripture of this time (i.e., the second half of the Trib):
    “I kept looking, and that horn [i.e., Antichrist] was waging war with the saints and overpowering them.” (Daniel 7:21)
    “…and they will be given into his hand for a time, times and half a time.” (Daniel 7:25b)
    “There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.” (Revelation 13:5)
    “It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.” (Revelation 13:7)
    His reign is supreme during the second half. With the committing of the Abomination of Desolation, he proceeds forth to force people to submit to him, via the infamous 666 mark, or be beheaded. (Revelation 13:15; Revelation 20:4)
    As a last thought, it is also this supreme reign of his during the second half that shows why all of the evangelism must take place in the Trib period’s first half, both that of the Two Witnesses and that of the 144,000 Israelites. Therefore, the time of the Two Witnesses can be none other than during the first half of the Tribulation period, with the Rapture preceding it.
    ****First of all, note that these twenty-four elders who represent the Church are seen by the Apostle John in heaven, not on the earth, sitting on thrones, wearing crowns on their heads, and clothed in white raiment, all of which is proof that they have been resurrected, translated and rewarded. It is completely incongruous to conceive of a disembodied spirit crowned and rewarded apart from the resurrection and the rapture. We conclude therefore that the rapture has already taken place.
    Secondly, note that in chapter five these elders watch with great interest as the Lamb of God takes the sealed book of divine judgment from the hand of the One who sits on the central throne. To close the chapter John sees them singing a song of their own redemption and adoring the Lamb as the One who alone has the right to hold the book.
    Thirdly, note that all of these events take place before a single seal of the book of Judgment is broken, before a single trumpet of judgment is sounded and before a single bowl of divine wrath is poured out on the earth. Hence chronologically chapters four and five of Revelation take place before any of the terrible Judgments described in chapters six to nineteen are poured out on the earth. Logically this is imperative. Chapters four and five constitute an introductory vision to the events which are about to happen. Chapter four concerns the setting up of a special throne of judgment for the tribulation and chapter five describes the little book and its seven seals. The breaking of the first seal ushers in the first Judgment. Logically then the events of these two chapters must precede the great tribulation and its scenes of judgment because it is from the things here pictured that these Judgments proceed.
    Now, regardless of what you do with chapters six through nineteen these arguments prove a pretribulational rapture. As McClain has so ably put it,
    Now regardless of the chronological interpretation you may make of the Judgments of Revelation 6 to19; whether you adopt some recapitulation or overlapping scheme; shuffle the seals and trumpets and vials as you will; you cannot push chapters 4 and 5 into the picture which follows in chapters 6 to19. There is no judgment until the first seal is broken; the first seal is not broken until the Lamb receives the Sealed Book; the Lamb does not take the Book until the 24 are in heaven, sitting on thrones and with crowns on their heads. If the scene in heaven described in chapters 4 and 5 does not precede the Judgments of 6 to19, then no man can make any sense whatever out of the order of things in the last book of the Bible. And we may as well complain with Martin Luther, “Even if it were a blessed thing to believe what is in it, no man knows what that is.”(18)
    And so we have in this beautiful symbol a clear reference to the Church which has been raptured prior to the tribulation. Whereas we are certain that this treatise will not convince everyone of the truths which we have presented, may this paper serve as a source of blessing to those who love this truth. “Even so, come Lord Jesus.”****

    • It proves you misinterpret the scriptures. These verses go with the other Bible verses that say and prove a post trib rapture. The belief is in your heart alone, not in scripture! Reality is in history, with the great multitude of martyrs for Jesus Christ.

  • Paul Kidd: watch out, here come the scoffers: Ron Murphy, Suez, Engr. to attack you!

  • “There is a common worldly kind of Christianity in this day, which
    many have, and think they have enough.
    “This cheap Christianity . . .
    offends nobody,
    requires no sacrifice,
    costs nothing,
    and is worth nothing!”
    – J.C Ryle

  • Mike: Here my email adddress: pastorsteventlarue@hotmail.com to send emails to Marie,

  • Scripture is not to be argued over.
    I came to know my Lord and Saviour Jesus by reading the bible and He taught me to love my brothers like He loved me, to put others first before myself, to do my best not to offend my brothers. Yet here many have been offended and I do not see apologies.
    Let us love not only in word but in deeds. How are you going to love your enemies if you cannot love your brothers in Christ?

  • By the way the 10% is not only an old testament teaching, Jesus supported it. 10% of your income goes to the church, not the poor, though we give to the poor also.

  • heather

    Why not help all who are suffering. Guess everyone who needs help will have to move to these places. Which is going to cause less jobs. Guess his dumb ass didn’t think of that!!

  • It’s quite sad for me to see how believers exalt themselves to a position of importance (Galatians 6:3), as if God really NEEDED them around to preach the Gospel to those who are left behind on earth after the Rapture takes place before the Great Tribulation. Trying to use too much human logic to understand God’s Power and Wisdom is just utter foolishness. Please remember that God DOESN’T NEED US to preach the Gospel, He Is Able To Raise Children out of stones to do His Will (Matthew 3:9). After the Bride Of Christ Is Taken up in the Rapture before The 7-year Tribulation starts, God Will Use a combination of miracles, signs, wonders, angels (Revelation 14:6-7), and 144,000 Jewish male virgins (Revelation 14:1-5) to reach the lost during the Tribulation. These 144,000 Jewish evangelists will be likened unto 144,000 Apostle Pauls, so imagine how many lost souls will hear The Gospel and be converted!

    To those who are advocating the Post-Tribulation Rapture heresy and trying to lead people astray from sound doctrine, please remember that your time would be better spent “proving yourself worthy” to The Lord by praying for all saints and reaching out to lost souls. God DOESN’T NEED YOU (this might be a hard one to swallow for you) to get His Work done, so stop trying so hard to prove that you’re worthy of whatever you think you’re worthy of, because no one is worthy but The Lord Jesus Christ! We’re all just a bunch of dirty, rotten, hell-deserving worms who The Lord Delights in using to bring Glory To His Name!

    • Your worm friend, ~Marie

      • Marie: We’ll be getting out of this worm cocoon very soon, anyhow, and be Conformed to the Image of Our Precious Bridegroom Jesus Christ! We’ll fly away like a butterfly~~

        • Dear Grandson Dickens,
          I elect you Preacher. When is the next service? Can we jump in our seats or do we have to wait unitl the Rapture? Your words delight my heart.
          Love, Grandma

  • Not to mention, the Post-Tribulation Rapture reeks of self-righteousness, whereas the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Glorifies and Exalts Jesus Christ As The Heroic Bridegroom Who Paid The Ultimate Price For His Bride-to-be. I also find that MOST Post-Tribulation Rapture advocates are judgmental, cynical, high-minded (about their intellectual grasp of Scriptures), argumentative, and without joy and peace (not the joy that they get from winning debates and arguments about their false doctrines). I’m not saying that all are like that, but MOST are, at least from what I’ve experienced. Most Pre-Tribulation Rapture believers are usually very hopeful, joyful, peaceful, patient, gentle, and always looking to edify and encourage those in the Body Of Christ, instead of trying to lay an intellectual smack-down on people who don’t believe as they do. Again, there are exceptions to that but that is the trend that I see in my experience.

    • Dickens I could kiss you and after that marry you if my husband will let me! ~Marie

      • Marie: Sorry I’m already one flesh with a beautiful woman that The Lord Has Blessed me with two and a half years ago!! Don’t think your husband would be too thrilled about that suggestion either hahaha~ All joking aside, love you too sister~

        • Dickens:
          No, my husband will not let me marry you either LOL!
          About Your Posts: You said it all so beautifully. And YES, Jesus is the One who suffered for us, not us for Him. He has done it all! I was trying to make a point by talking about suffering for Christ, but you put the whole thing in proper perspective and I feel foolish now. It is not about our suffering for Christ but that Jesus suffered for us, THAT is the point. Thank you thank you thank you for expressing my feeling so eloquently and so humbly and so astutely. I really appreciate your posts. And thank you for also pointing out their false doctrine in such an articulate way. ~Sister Marie

          • Marie: I’m sure that The Lord’s Holy Spirit Guided me in writing those posts, because He’s Constantly Telling us, Through His Word and His Creation, just how much He Loves us! I really don’t know what gets people hooked onto those heresies, such as Post-Tribulation Rapture, but my guess is that they just want to prove to themselves and to The Lord that they’re worth Saving. I’m all for suffering and laying my life down for The Lord and For His Will, but I think that if you take the suffering part a little too far, you start to lose that tenderness and intimacy in your relationship with The Lord. It kind of becomes a “if I don’t suffer then I won’t be worthy in His Eyes and He Won’t Love me anymore” kind of relationship, instead of just being content with whatever The Lord Puts on your plate. It kind of becomes “spiritual covetousness”, in the sense that you’re trying to be so holy, so dedicated, so SPIRITUAL in your own eyes that you have to bash other people who don’t have the same spiritual goals, aspirations, and beliefs as you do. I realize that everyone’s relationship with The Lord is unique and beautiful in its own way, but regardless of the dynamics of the relationship, The Lord’s Character NEVER CHANGES. Throughout The Bible, The Lord ALWAYS Delivers His Own before He Pours His Wrath and Judgment out on an unbelieving world or city (Noah’s Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, Egypt under Pharaoh in Exodus, etc.). These are all type pictures of The Lord’s Deliverance. He’s Perfectly Loving, yet Perfectly Just, and Perfectly Graceful, and Perfectly Longsuffering; what a Perfect Husband For Eternity!

            In contrast to that, the Post-Tribulation Rapture heresy makes The Lord look like a jerk, who requires His Bride to prove herself worthy by suffering for Him. It’s like “Yeah, well my Blood isn’t powerful enough to make you spotless, so you purify yourself through the fire ok? Don’t even think about coming to me until you’re clean ok? Oh, as for your wedding garments, get it yourself and clean it yourself! Don’t tell me you’re expecting me to give you a spotless, white wedding garment! PROVE TO ME THAT YOU’RE WORTH MY LOVE, OTHERWISE, GET OUT!” Sounds more like Satan than it does The Lord Jesus Christ!

          • Oh Dickens,
            You should preach. You are gifted. Your post elevated me and brought me to my senses. I got lost in trying to defend. Please keep posting and bless me with your Biblical wisdom and understanding. My heart is singing…
            ~Grandma Marie

          • Dickens:
            I really don’t know what gets people hooked on those heresies, such as Post-Tribulation Rapture or thinking that one can add to the salvation that Jesus provided us or have to be ‘worthy to recieve it’, but my guess is that they just want to prove to themselves and to The Lord that they are better than He and that He needs help in His provision of salvation. It is simply human ego and the opposite of humble. No one is worth salvation and there is absolutely NOTHING that anyone can do to save oneself other than believe and nothing to do to maintain salvation other than relying on Jesus, the author and finisher of our Faith.
            And that is exacty the point, we cannot save ourselves. The Bible declares us all unrighteous, every one of us. NO one is good no not one, for all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God, so how then being unrighteous worms, can we become good enough to warrant salvation? When does this transformation take place. It is because we, in the first place, are all helpless and hopeless that we need a Savior. If we had any righteousness of our own, we would not need a Savior. How can we worms prove anything except that we are worms. And how can we be anything but grateful that God has saved us through His own efforts. Why would Jesus die for us if we were worthy of salvation. That would be redendant wouldn’t it?
            Jesus spent so much time trying to prove to Israel that He was the Messiah and they would not believe him. (many did). So now, are we asked to prove we are worthy of salvation? It is the same unbelief that national Israel demonstrated but in a backwards mode. After hearing so much false doctrine on salvation for so many years, it was my realization that I was a sinful worm indeed, helpless and hopeless, and that it was impossible for me to save myself through anything other than what Jesus did on my behalf on the Cross. I knew my condition of utter helplessness and hopelessness. I still sinned even though a Believer. For many it is the Cross plus…plus baptism, plus being good, plus obeying the Law, plus the oxymoron of “being worthy to be saved”, plus attending church, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus! Any human effort is worthless. On the front side or backside, (trying to keep it or prove it), of salvation. We are only asked to humble ourselves and Believe…Praise God for His solution to our sin problem. I certainly had none of my own
            ~Grandma Marie

          • Proving to the Lord you’re worth saving would be a pretrib view. We post tribber do look to be saving the flesh from dying. But are willing to show we are worthy of death, even though our Savior wasn’t, but still died for our sins. It is the pretribbers that justify their righteousness and worthiness to be delivered from persecution. But Jesus the Author and finisher of our faith made it very clear:

            Luk_17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
            This wasn’t wrote in Luke 21 or Matt. 24. This was for all times. It’s amazing how people follow Paul but belittle our Saviors words, when He is the Word, when Paul himself said, follow me as I follow Christ.

          • Marie (and anyone else who is reading): As I was typing up my previous reply, The Lord Reminded me of the Parable Of The Prodigal Son. The younger brother (the prodigal in action), who wanders off and screws up, knows and realizes that he is unworthy and undeserving, and is relying totally on his Father’s Grace and Forgiveness. The elder brother (the prodigal at heart), who never wandered off physically, and kept up his “good works”, feels that he is “worthy” to be a son, but takes such an unmerciful attitude towards the younger brother, who he feels is “not worthy” to be a son because of all the sins that he committed. Sounds like a Pre-Tribulation Rapture believer (the younger brother) and a Post-Tribulation Rapture believer (the elder brother)!

          • How beautifully and knowledgably you articulate Dickens.

        • Dickens…and I am old enough, I imagine, to be your Grandmother anyway!

          • I am so thrilled about all the wonderful people that I am going to meet in Heaven. What a JOY!

          • I am jumping for joy and ready to Rapt (ure)!

          • Marie: Well I’m about to hit 30 very soon, and I guess that would be considered young from many brothers’ and sisters’ perspective! I know that Pastor STL is a retired war veteran (from his posts), so he can’t be in his 30’s unless he came back from Afghanistan or Iraq, but I think he was talking about Vietnam so he’s at least in his 70’s. But enough about age, yes let’s rejoice together my sister, and joyfully await and be looking for that Blessed Hope!

          • Grandson Dickens, I am an old woman who thinks she is young and can jump!

          • Pastor, I hope you feel better about yourself now, can we move on?

        • Dickens, my husband said that I am too old to marry you but that I could be your Grandmother.

  • There will be some people that will be offended when the Rapture that was falsely promised doesn’t happen. They will be very dangerous people.

    Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
    I guess they think this is for the Jews. It is and us, too. It’s called denial!

  • I do not believe in pre-mid-or post tribulation, what ever happens, happens!

    • Moonlit I agree even tho this Site is that, I enjoy posts/conversation and Scripture. But I think Salvation is more important. blessings to you

    • Moonlit That is wise, if you are not sure, don’t fight either one unless you’re sure!

  • I did some research today…always the best thing to do before we just accept something as truth. Jesus warned us not to complicate His teachings. With that said, do u think anyone who has never picked up a Bible would be able to read and understand the scriptures like scholars? Or a pastor to preach it to them? In countries where faith in Christ is punishable by death, the ability to read and be taught scripture is pretty difficult. So these people are reading their Bible on their own. Ok so it makes sense to me that Jesus wants us to know His Word, therefore it cant be at all possible for it to be so complicated. How are these people going to know that they gotta read thess, dan, luke, mark, matthew, john and rev and to piece it all together to understand around the time of Christ’s return??? Just to complicated for someone who can barely read. So with that said, I searched today. I did some digging and what u choose to do with what I have is up to you. After you check out the first link, research these people, research the religious movement mentioned. You gotta know how to tie things together and I have a clear picture of what is going on.
    Everything I will present goes hand in hand with the New World Order that all of you should be well aware of by visiting this site. And WHO is behind the new world order??? U know the answer!!!

  • You guys decide!! just remember… the pope is a jesuit!!!!!

    • @Sunshine, that he is girl, that he is!!!

  • This link should bring it ALL home for you!!!

  • I rest my case!!!!!!! We can decipher WHO the spirit is behind this pre trib rapture….Im sorry but I believe JESUS over a 15 year old girl or ANY jesuit popes!!!

    • Thank you for you contribution, Sunshine. God bless you.

    • Sunshine, sorry I didn’t scroll far enough! 🙂

  • May JESUS open blinded eyes!! Love you all in Christ…remember this isnt about being right. With humility I bring you the other side and pray for each of you.

    • Amen Sunshine. It’s a hard and humble job, but someone hast to do it,,,right!!! LOL 🙂

  • @suez….I got your email. I’ll stay in touch. If I get chased out of here, I’ll email you if you wanna stay in contact.

    • They try chasing me but I’m stubborn. The Lord’s got a work here, stick around. Sorry I don’t put much faith in seeing the pope and the new world order stuff. I see it as a decoy from satan to deceive the elect. I believe whole heartedly Jerusalem is the Mystery Babylon and the Beast kingdom is the Land of Canaan, Promised to the children of Israel, Dan. 7:18,22,27, Dan 9:24, Dan 11:21,2445. Take a look at Gen 15:18-21 for a description of the ten horns and look at Rev 17:16-17

      • Ron…Hang in there guy!! It’s a hard and selfless job, but someone has to do it!!! LOL It isn’t fun being attacked by angry wolfs, even if they are sheep, but have wolves teeth sometimes. I am seeing that for sure. I’m continuing to pray for more love and patience to endure the persecution that comes with trying to help people!! It ain’t easy for sure!!! LOL

    • @Sunshine, thanks, Ya, that is kinda what I am thinking. Good to have other like minded Christians to stay in contact with!! LOL 🙂 Thanks for the post trib address. I will be looking there a lot I’m sure!!! Hope you have a great weekend! s

  • How about 2 Corinthians 10:5?

    The only thing that matters is that we are ready.

    • 2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
      2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
      2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

      2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

      How many of you have fulfilled your obedieness? Rapture is a desire of the flesh, not the spirit. The spirit doesn’t die anyway. Few will be raptured when it does come!

      • Ron, I may differ with that point at the end. Doesn’t our spirit also long for the Coming of the Lord? I think mine does anyway!!! 🙂 Even the earth does according to scripture. Doesn’t it say somewhere, even the earth groans awaiting the coming of the Lord, or the day of the Lord or something like that. My computer is having problems, so I can’t look it up. Blessings, s

        • Their is a diference between the spirit of man an the Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit indwells in us when we are born of that Spirit. The spirit that our soul is partaken in is given of God. and it returns to God. At least that’s how I see it. Scripture!

          Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

          Heb_4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

          As you can see the Holy Spirit is always higher cased and the spirit of man always lower cased most of the time. Only in older text it is not so.

          Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
          As you already know, I believe the Bride is the New Jerusalem , not the church. But the one that heareth could be the church. I believe so.

        • Yes, Sue, even our spirit that God gave us, longs for the appearing of the Lord.

          • The body with out spirit is dead, the Spirit is the life that is in us. The soul is not the life in us, but rather the fillings of that life. They work together with the visible body that houses that life and soul. That’s why sometimes orals are see when someone dies, the spirit goes out of the person. If you are a martyr for Christ your soul goes to God also, at the time of death. Otherwise it remains within the pit, awaiting the judgment. Some believe because He gave special blessing to those that suffer for Him, that they to are entitled to those blessings. The old testament saints laid for a long time. And so have the saint of Jesus’ day that died a natural death, So what is a thousand years to God?
            Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
            This will be our new Spirits that give us life when you are raised from the dead or raptured. It will quicken the Spiritual body, our new bodies, free of pain and old age! Glorified bodies, forever more.

          • Typo, Brenda says: Orals= auras

  • RHud: thank you for that information!

  • Where is all the posting, it seem the Post-Tribulation guys ran everyone off?

    • Hey, Steven Larue, how ya’ doin? I see you haven’t left like you said you would, same ole, same ole Larue! LOL 🙂 🙁

  • Well, who wants to come in and have a discussion with all this stuff above? It makes it NOT a discussion but a meat grinder.

  • Who Steven Larue? LOL

    • LOL! Brenda just say you would say that! You’re a dead give-a-way. Others can go back and look where you taked to him.

  • Obviously there is history here among the posters. I don’t know any of you. But can I just say….
    The world sees this stuff.
    This is why the “one world religion” of the world looks so good to those on the outside. As in those that NEED Christ. The ones we are to be speaking the GOOD news to. God created us to want that unity (Eph 4). And when they don’t see in Christianity they will seek it elsewhere.
    We need to speak to each other in Love.

    • Amen to this thank you

    • Sorry, this Larue changes his name so much. You just sounded like him, lol.

  • @Ron and @suez….sorry haven’t been on here today. Was off researching some other stuff!! Thx for the postings and encouragement!!! Hope you guys have a great weekend!!!

  • T

    This is Agenda 21 people, look it up!

  • Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
    Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
    Mat 10:36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
    Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
    Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
    Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
    Mat 10:40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
    Mat 10:41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward.

    • I don’t know why you would use that verse because it does not have anything to do with what I personally was talking about. That is referring to the unsaved of the world. If I come from an unsaved family and I find redemption in Christ Jesus, I then have issue with my family and their unsaved life.

      The Body of Christ, “the brethren”, believers, are what I was referring to. The venom with which others have been speaking to each other with in all the comments here.

      How about 1 John 3:13-15 which refers to the brethren.

      Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

      Most people stop at verse 13 and justify themselves if they have issues with believers- the brethren. But that is NOT what those verses are talking about is it?

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