Sorry Pastor Hagee, But The Jewish People Need Jesus For Salvation Too

Have you ever stopped to wonder why we never hear stories of Jews coming to salvation to Jesus Christi through Hagee's efforts? The sad truth is, they don't because...
“Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” John 14:6

To add anything to the work that Christ did for salvation is to negate God’s grace. We are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, not by returning to the Law.

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 9:6 (KJV)

EDITOR’S NOTE: Texas mega-church pastor John Hagee loves Israel, as his multi-million dollar organization Christians United For Israel will attest to. And ostensibly, that love is returned to him by the Jewish people. But have you ever stopped to wonder why we never hear stories of Jews coming to salvation to Jesus Christi through Hagee’s efforts? The sad truth is, they don’t because he doesn’t preach Jesus to them. John Hagee teaches the damnable heresy of Dual Covenant Salvation, which purports that Jews don’t need Jesus because God made a covenant with Abraham. For more on that, click here. ***And before you swamp me with email, I have been told by Jews who live in Israel, that John Hagee personally told them that “they don’t need Jesus” because of the “covenant that God made with Abraham”. 

After my article on Rabbi Eckstein and his International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, I received a few emails which prompted me to write this article. Most of the responses to the piece were positive, though many were very remorseful for the amount of money they have given to IFCJ over the years.

One lady said that her family even gave up the summer vacation and sent the money which it would have cost to Rabbi Eckstein. Another lady said that when she went to search for “Christians for Israel” online, it took her to Rabbi Eckstein’s website. The real “Christians for Israel” was further down. The Rabbi had used an alias for his site. It read “Christians for Israel – IFCJ.” That is deceitful.

But the most disturbing emails were from people who think that Jews don’t need Jesus! That is a lie from the pit of hell, and I can just hear the evil one whispering it to Christians. The Jewish people need Jesus just as much as anyone else. He is the only way to heaven!


“Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” John 14:6

The Scripture says “all” and that means that all people must repent and trust Jesus for Salvation. No exceptions. No special arrangements with the Jewish people.

The Hebrew Roots cult is demonically inspired, and will cause untold number of people to remain unsaved. Some people think that it’s fine to give to Rabbi Eckstein, because he is furnishing food and clothes to needy Jewish people. I had one person say that I should not judge the Rabbi. Really? I should not tell people that he has become a millionaire from their donations? I should not tell people that Rabbi Eckstein does not believe in Jesus as Messiah, and hates people like me – Jewish believers? I strongly disagree.

These same Hebrew Roots people are making the Blood of our Savior to no avail. That means that He hung on the Cross, and suffered and died for nothing! They believe that keeping the feasts, and keeping kosher, and learning Hebrew is the key to salvation. Why would the Father send His only begotten Son to pay the sin debt for us, if it was not enough? This is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Somehow, the Hebrew Roots people were told by someone that they must become like Jews to really be saved. They are modern day Judaizers!

Question: “Who were the Judaizers?”

Answer: There have always been those who balk at the idea of God’s salvation being offered freely to those who believe. They reason that such a grand gift as forgiveness from such a holy God must require some kind of payment from us. We thank God for His grace, but we understand that He expects us to somehow earn that grace—in other words, there must be something that we can do to pay off the debt we owe to God.

In the early church, those who taught a combination of God’s grace and human effort were called “Judaizers.” The word Judaizer comes from a Greek verb meaning “to live according to Jewish customs.” The word appears in Galatians 2:14 where Paul describes how he confronted Peter for forcing Gentile Christians to “Judaize.”

JOHN HAGEE QUOTE: “The Jewish people have a relationship to God through the law of God as given through Moses,” Hagee said. “I believe that every Gentile person can only come to God through the cross of Christ. I believe that every Jewish person who lives in the light of the Torah, which is the word of God, has a relationship with God and will come to redemption. “The law of Moses is sufficient enough to bring a person into the knowledge of God until God gives him a greater revelation. And God has not,” said Hagee

A Judaizer taught that, in order for a Christian to truly be right with God, he must conform to the Mosaic Law. Circumcision, especially, was promoted as necessary for salvation. Gentiles had to become Jewish proselytes first, and then they could come to Christ. The doctrine of the Judiazers was a mixture of grace (through Christ) and works (through the keeping of the Law). This false doctrine was dealt with in Acts 15 and strongly condemned in the book of Galatians.

At the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15, a group of Judaizers opposed Paul and Barnabas. Some men who belonged to the party of the Pharisees insisted that Gentiles could not be saved unless they were first circumcised and obeyed the Law of Moses. Paul made the case that, in Christ, there was no longer any distinction between Jew and Gentile, for God had purified the hearts of the Gentiles by faith (Acts 15:8–9). He said it plainly in Galatians 2:16: “A man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.”

To add anything to the work that Christ did for salvation is to negate God’s grace. We are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, not by returning to the Law. “I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing” (Galatians 2:21).

There are many groups today with beliefs/practices very similar to the Judaizers of the New Testament. The two most prominent would be the Hebrew Roots Movement and the Roman Catholic Church. The teachings of the Hebrew Roots Movement are virtually identical to those of the Judaizers whom Paul rebuked in Galatians. A primary focus of the Hebrew Roots Movement is to put followers of Christ back under the bondage of the Old Testament Law.

The Roman Catholic Church teaches a doctrine similar to that of the Judiazers of the New Testament in this way: its doctrine is a mixture of law and grace. At the Council of Trent in the 16th century, the Catholic Church explicitly denied the idea of salvation by faith alone. Catholics have always held that certain sacraments are necessary for salvation. The issues for the 1st-century Judiazers were circumcision and Sabbath-keeping. The issues for modern-day Catholics are baptism, confession, etc. The works considered necessary may have changed, but both Judiazers and Catholics attempt to merit God’s grace through the performance of ritualistic acts.

First Timothy 4:3 says that, in later times, false teachers will “forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.” This sounds suspiciously close to some of the teachings of Roman Catholicism, which requires priests to be celibate (“forbidding to marry”) and proclaims some food to be off-limits during Lent (“abstaining from certain foods”).The Judiazers upheld the Mosaic Law as necessary for salvation; Catholics uphold man-made tradition as necessary; both view Christ’s death as being insufficient without the active and continued cooperation of the one being saved.

The Bible is clear that the attempt to add human works to God’s grace overlooks the very meaning of grace, which is “undeserved blessing.” As Paul says, “If by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace” (Romans 11:6). Praise the Lord, “Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.” Galatians 5:1 (KJV). [1] – source

Brethren, what did John the Baptist say when he saw Jesus approaching him?

“The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29 (KJV)

He didn’t say “Behold, here is One who will help to take away the sin of the world.” His sacrifice on that Cross was payment for all sin, and He offered this to “Whosoever” would believe.

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.” John 3:16-17 (KJV)

I have noticed that most people I meet who are part of the Hebrew Roots cult, seem so mean spirited. This is not a mystery! They have no joy, because they have not really come into relationship with Jesus Christ. He brings us joy. We can rest in Him.

He alone is our Shalom.

“Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.” Matthew 11:28-29 (KJV)

Shalom b’Yeshua


Born into a Jewish family in Maryland, I was always searching for the truth about Jesus. I knew that He had to be someone so very special. My dad would say "He was a good man, but not who he said he was." So a good man would lie? At the age of 31, I finally met Yeshua, and He became my Lord and Savior. I am a Jew who has been made complete in Him. I am now anxiously awaiting His Glorious return to rapture His church! Maranatha!
    • Ricky Harding

      Amen. I have been paving this for over a year now and you won’t believe the slander that I gave each and every day.

      • Geri Ungurean

        They can be very mean spirited for sure. Keep preaching truth!

    • Genevieve

      you are so wrong. Sorry.. But Hagee has been to Israel more than two dozen times and has met with every Prime Minister of Israel since Menachem Begin. John Hagee Ministries has given several million dollars to bring Soviet Jews from the former Soviet Union to Israel, as well as millions to support Jewish orphanages and other worthy causes for the Jewish people in Israel and around the globe. Hagee is the Founder and Executive Director of “A Night to Honor Israel”, an event that expresses solidarity between Christians and Jews on behalf of Jerusalem, the State of Israel, and the United States.[27]

      On February 7, 2006, Hagee and 400 leaders from the Christian and Jewish communities formed a new national organization called Christians United for Israel (CUFI).[28] This organization addresses members of the United States Congress, professing a Biblical justification for the defense of Israel. Around this time he received death threats for supporting Israel, and has since had bodyguards standing by while preaching at his church or at speaking engagements.[6] he loves and supports the jewish people 100%

      Hagee was the primary early funding source for the Israeli Zionist group Im Tirtzu,[29] which has pressured Israeli academics it accuses of being anti-Zionist and lobbied to have their funding cut for their political views.[30]

      • So can you show me where he preaches about salvation in Jesus Christ to the Jews? Show me ONE example of Hagee preaching salvation through Jesus Christ alone to the Jews and I will issue an IMMEDIATE retraction and apology.

        • michele

          YouTube Mr.Hagee’s name. Its sad. Nothing but denial of Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Mr. Hagee himself is not saved and leads others to damnation. God have mercy on his soul.

        • Artemis

          I think I’ve just about had enough of this superior attitude coming from so-called Christians. How about you show me some examples of Rabbi’s preaching Judaic teachings and converting Christians!
          I’m sick of all of these folks on here that think everyone else if going to Hell if they agree with them.
          I’m done here. Have nice life Pontificating your days away.

          • Artemis

            NTEB is speaking the truth. See You Tube John Hagee “Keeping Judaism Jewish”. There are many more. I used to admire him for his helping the Jewish people, until my eyes were opened to the truth. He’s more for prosperity just like the many other prosperity false prophets. There is a picture that one could see online where John Hagee was pictured with Pope Francis along with Kenneth Copeland and others. Why would John Hagee go to visit the Pope? Hum?

            I used to enjoy listening to Dr David Jeremiah. Then one day when I was watching a video of him teaching in his Church, I happen to see something in the Church’s glass stained window. I zoomed in on it and to my horror, it was a huge eye of horus! Believe me, the Mason’s know the Bible very well. Jesus warned us that there would be MANY false phrophets in the end times.

            • Heather

              Sorry Artemis, it was me who posted the above. I did not realize your name and email was was showing in my post a comment section. Lol.

            • Heather

              Well now I have read your post above accusing Christians of having superoir attitudes, I guess accidently posting under your name was meant to be lol.

            • Richard Mann

              I was wondering about David Jeremiah. I use to listen to him daily when I was delivering news papers. I think it was last Sunday, March 29, 2015 that I caught his service on TV. Just for a moment, I saw that “eye” on the stained glass window behind him. I was not sure that I saw what I saw, simply because of what he has taught over the years. Another lesson from the Holy Ghost. Sooner or later, a person will show their true self. I have not been to his church or met anyone from there, but I now bet that many in his congregation wear the ring of the Mansions. I know enough about them to know that they are just one of the many Mystery religions which started as far back as Egypt, and do not promote Jesus as the only way of salvation. All religions are welcome to worship at their alter. It’s getting really hard to find a pastor you can trust.

            • GWA


              You have to remember that many will “take offense” at the truth. It does not make ME any better then anyone else. At the end of the day I am a FILTHY, DIRTY SINNER… Paul said “the chief of all sinners”.
              (pretty much bottom of the barrel here)
              BUT, I do know what the bible says and I can only pray that Artemis finds the New Testament TRUTHS! Jesus didn’t say “it is finished…………but”. IT IS FINISHED and He truly is the WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIGHT for all nations and all tongues. Yes, even the Jewish people. The good/bad news is God will DEAL with His chosen people soon and they will find out that Jesus Christ WAS IT….the Messiah.
              I am truly sorry Artemis was offended by Biblical truth but don’t kill the messenger. Just look it up.
              Have a blessed Easter Weekend (thank you Jesus!)

          • Richard Mann

            Hagee is condemning the Jews to hell by not preaching Jesus and Him crucified for their sins. And he is walking on the Bible to do so. I would say that this is demonically motivated and that Hagee is acting under the lie that his actions will either ensure his salvation, or a better reward in heaven. To the Jewish people out there, your Messiah died for your salvation and that of us gentiles. If you do not believe that Jesus died in your place and put all your hope and faith in what He did on that cross and then his resurrection, then you will find yourself sharing in the same Hell as all those who have tried to destroy the Jewish people all these years. And time is running out.

            • Heather


            • Geri Ungurean

              Amen, Richard!! If those dear Christians had not shared Salvation with me that night in 1983, I would be still lost and going to hell!!!

              PLEASE tell Jewish people that they need Jesus!!

          • derek

            hows this for a biblical truth…can u except it…… man can come to the father,except through through Jesus …….

        • Jerry

          Amen, Geoffry.

        • Larry

          Hi Geoffery,
          Couldn’t help but notice your pic and your comment. Your comment seems to be stating that the picture of the quote you are holding refers to Jesus…it does not but rather to God almighty himself. The quote you are displaying is from Romans I’m sure. But it is not the complete quote as Joel the prophet of God stated but such is Pauline Christianity, as he himself stated he will be whatever it takes to convert anyone. He was a chameleon and his teachings have many faces. But let’s get back to your quote…not Paul’s shortened version but the complete quote from Joel, Gods prophet. You can find it in Joel chapter 2 verse 32 .

          “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.”

          The LORD spoken of is God (Yahovah) not Jesus.

          To all I say, stop the ignorance of “blind faith” and search well in the scriptures and do not rely on anyones opinion. Paul was the most opiniated writer in the entire 66 books of the bible.

      • Geri Ungurean

        So, Hagee has done so many things for Israel. As a Christian Jew, I cannot think of anything more important than sharing the Gospel of Christ, so that Jewish souls might be saved.

      • joe

        It doesn’t matter how many times anyone has been to Israel or how much money they have raised. The only way to salvation is through Jesus Christ, period. That applies to any race or religion. All roads don’t lead to Heaven. Why does Paul say in the Bible to the Jews that since they didn’t deem themselves worthy of salvation through Christ that he turned to the Gentiles with the gospel of Jesus?

      • Ed

        satan does lots of good, so should you pray to satan? look at all the good, people think, that the secret organizations that are forming the “one world government” are doing. Wake up people, get back into the Bible, the “King James Bible.” Study to know the truth or what is going on with this planet.. Come to Jesus and believe what He did for you.

      • Obi

        Yes my friend, he’s done all this and it’s laudable. I am a great follower of Pastor Hague and up until now, I have viewed his theology as being on point and unimpeachable. However, if he truly holds the view that the Jews can be saved by observing the laws of Moses, then that is a doctrinal error of truly dangerous proportions. Someone should warn him before he falls in any deeper. I love and respect the man but he IS WRONG on this, regardless of how much he loves the state of Israel and the Jews

      • I agree – speaking to the leaders does nothing for the people of Israel. The leaders are the problems as they are the Zionists!

        • Geri Ungurean

          No, the leaders are not the problem…….SIN is the problem and Yeshua came to deal with that problem. The Jewish people need to know that Jesus IS their Messiah!

          And did you know that God Himself is a Zionist? It’s true!

      • Linda Jensen

        Do Gooders! Self Righteous! Jesus is the ONLY WAY. You must be BORN AGAIN. Who is a Jew? One circumcised by the heart. By the Holy Spirit!

        I have friends who are Born Again Jews! They LOVE JESUS CHRIST!

    • el oso

      re: Editor’s note Pastor Hage is in San Antonio not Houston and we are glad to have him!!!

    • Every knee shall bow & every tongue will confess
      that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God
      the Father. Philippians 2:10
      I have a John Hagee Bible & that is what it reads.

      • Geri Ungurean

        So, Hagee wrote your Bible?

        • No, Geri, you misunderstood…Jack Houts was referring to his King James Bible given to him by John Hagee….

          • Geri Ungurean

            That is nice that he is giving Bibles away. But is he TELLING the Jewish people that they need Jesus (Yeshua) in order to be saved??

        • Geri.
          Actually it is a New King James Bible filled with
          John Hagee ( commentary type writings ). I got it at
          the John Hagee church in San Antonio in about 1997. I
          think John Hagee is doing a great ministry with the Jews.
          However Philippians 2:10 does read as follows:
          that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the earth verse 11
          and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. page 1453 published as prophesy study
          Bible. 1997 by Thomas Nelson, inc New King James Version
          Jack Houts.
          Thank you for your ministry as a Completed Jew. I used to follow
          Zola Levetz (sp) & his ministry to the Jews.
          In reading the following comment. I visited his church & I purchased the Bible.I believe Jews & all must accept Jesus Christ
          as Savior. I cannot answer for John Hagee.

    • Margaret Murray

      I sincerely hope you’ve done all your research on Pastor Hagee because he’s not a Houston Texas mega pastor at all! His church is in San Antonio and he teaches biblically sound verses on the homesexual life style.

      • I have been told by Jews who live in Israel, that John Hagee personally told them that “they don’t need Jesus” because of the “covenant that God made with Abraham”.

        • Linda Jensen

          John Hagee doesn’t know the Word of God. He probably tells the Jews that because he is trying to gain their favor.

        • Larry

          Hi Geoffrey,
          Let’s look at what God says about the subject.
          Jeremiah 31:31-34;
          “Behold, the days come, sainthood the LORD (Yahvah) that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant THEY brake, although I was an husband to them, smith the LORD: BUT THIS SHALL BE THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL;AFTER THOSE DAYS smith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, sainthood the LORD : for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
          Now add this: Zechariah. 8:23;
          “Thus saith the LORD of hosts; in those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.”

          But then 6 million Christians can be wrong, right?
          I choose to believe God rather than the Jewish apostate, self appointed apostle, be whatever you want me to be Paul.

    • michele


    • johnjim

      Thank you,Sister Geri. This is a great article. Being a former Catholic I understand exactly what you are saying. To them “Mary worship” is also part of the mix. I got saved at the age of 39 after 22 years of drunkenness and drug addiction that I believe God used to separate me from my strict Catholic upbringing. Thank you,Jesus! As far as Rabbi Eckstein goes, I will no longer support IFCJ. I already give to groups that definitely share the Gospel with the Jewish people. So the IFCJ is expendable.

      • Elizabeth Daviaux

        The Joshua Fund, by Joel Rosenberg is a great organization that supports the Jewish people.

      • Geri Ungurean

        Bless you, brother 🙂

    • michele

      People? Open your eyes. You’ve been blinded from the truth.
      John Hagee is a heretical, false prophet.
      He is all about the money and not salvation, even for himself he denies Jesus Christ as our salvation. Do some research for yourself and see. YouTube his name and you’ll hear in his own words his denial of Christ as the Messiah.

      • You are right! There is a large difference between the people of Israel who need our help Jewish or not – it is the Zionists creating all the problems – will the world ever pay attention?

        • Geri Ungurean

          For crying out loud…….GOD HIMSELF is a Zionist!!!!

          • Did you really mean to say that? God is of no nationality to my knowledge no can I find any reference to it in the Bible.

            The Jews I am referring to are the Ashkenazic Jews who are the Jews of France, Germany, and Eastern Europe and their descendants. These are the Zionists of which the Rothschild family basically created. For the most part they are NON practicing Jews as far as religion and most are today involved in banking, mortgage companies, loan businesses or anything that has to do with money. A good share of Congress are Ashkenazic Jews, non-practicing and they say so in their bios.

            Soros, Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Rahm Emanuel’s family, I can go on and on.

            It sounded as if you put God on the same parallel as us. He is our Father and above us.

            • Geri Ungurean

              I am an Ashkenazi Jew. My people on both sides of the family were from Kiev, Ukraine. They came over to America in 1903 through Ellis Island.

              I have NO relatives who are big bankers like the Rothchilds.

              Why don’t you stop beating around the bush about hating Zionists, and just cut to the chase – you’re a Jew hater.

            • Geri,

              Nothing could be further from the truth, but the same implications I have mentioned have been in articles posted by others on your news service. My point exactly when that line of Jews descended from and you affirmed it. From the Rothchilds down it is the bankers and those dealing with money (not the little everyday Jew who keep Israel going) are the cause of the many wars and the numerous bankruptcies put upon this country. Where and whom do you supposed the start of the New World Order came from – long before we were born.

              And sometimes when you write an article, if you see information you have not heard before – research is a great tool. I have many Jewish friends and have all my life – being a Jew or not a Jew does not determine the kind of person they are. The Jews I am referring to have interbred for centuries and are cold and selfish as with the Rothschilds, Soros and Rockefeller’s.

              Your responses come off as extremely angry rather than being willing to learn. Sad, I think you are a very intelligent girl.

            • God is a Jew! He traces his family tree right back to King David of Jerusalem!

              He is bringing His people back to the land where He will deal with them through the Tribulation. And yes, they are still in unbelief, but that is His plan. They are the “Nation not desired”;

              1 Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired; 2 Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD’S anger come upon you. 3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD’S anger. Zephaniah 2:1-3

              The Church, both Jews and Gentiles, are the “meek of the earth” and they will be hidden in their chambers in Heaven during the day of the Lord’s anger.

              Thank you Geri, for such an excellent article.

    • Tuck Burger

      His mega church is in San Antonio.

    • Lorraine Jakins

      If keeping the law and believing the scriptures was enough for salvation, Jesus, after His death, wouldnt have had to go down into the prison to preach to those who had previously died and were in Abrahams bosom. ALL must recognise and receive the Messiah to be saved.

    • Bruce Wayne

      I think n is simply bringing Christians and Jews together. You will never convince a Jew that he may need Christ until God does via the New Testament and Christians support of Israel.

      Historically Whole branches of supposed christian churches such as catholics have persecuted Jews simply because they are Jewish……..What Hagee is doing is very important because right now, many Jews are becoming Messianic Jews.

      I have Hagee’s books and video on the Four Blood moons and I think he’s a great voice for support of Israel in a time when so many are abandoning them.

      Why are so many people who call themselves christians always standing in front of Yahweh accusing the brethren day and night.

      I have not yet heard Hagee actually tell anyone that they don’t need Jesus Christ….what he does say is that the Hebrew way can bring a Jew to CHrist, after all, it’s the same God

      • Geri Ungurean

        You say that one can never convince a Jew that they need Christ? When the Christian couple shared Yeshua with me in 1983, it was so clear that He was the truth and the way to God. I am a full blooded Jew, and I responded to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    • You are absolutely right! Hagee has for years pulled all this money in for ‘Israel’ and I would like to see how much goes to the little people of Israel or to the Zionists Hagee has always supported.

    • frank burns

      Another great article on John Hagee. Keep up the good work as most christians dont read the Bible and want to donate to these morons in disguise. Hagee has a yearly salary of over 1,000,000 dollars per year plus an unlimited tax free expense account. If you are not saved you cannot enter heaven, period !The only one I see on tv that is any good is Hal Lindsey !

    • sola scriptura

      It makes no sense why Hagee doesn’t care about their eternal souls, because Jesus is the only name under heaven by which we can be saved. Thanks for contending mightily for our great faith.

      Below is some scriptures on why we cannot compromise the gospel message with jews or muslims. If we do because we want them to like us…they will perish, sadly.

    • Pingback: Sorry Pastor Hagee, But The Jewish People Need Jesus For Salvation Too | Walker Ministries | Virginia Beach, VA()

    • Geri Ungurean

      I just saw that John Hagee is worth $5 million. Preachers of the Gospel of Christ should not get rich from preaching!!!!

      And please read this from

    • pd

      The Jews will know Jesus. They have been temporarily blinded till the non Jewish people , the church, are all saved.

      • Geri Ungurean

        But we still should share the Gospel with them!

    • mountain saint

      Forget the mainline churches (they are already spiritually-dead), how come you so-called evangelical churches and born-again christians are losing 99.5% of your young people to the world? Your preaching the Replacement Theology and Marxism (Social Gospel) isn’t winning many souls for the Lord, is it? I think that you guys better clean house first before picking on Hagee.

      • Geri Ungurean

        Don’t try to place guilt on us. Satan is on the warpath to get our children. The college campuses are filled with liberal Christian-hating professors. Satan’s demons abound.

        Don’t try to place condenmation on us. We know where condemnation comes from, and it’s not God.

        • mountain saint

          Geri, you are losing it once again. You must feel quilty about the way you raised your kids…Our young people are “lost” today because their parents and grandparents didn’t teach or practice Christianity at home (2 Timothy 3;1-5,13)…The Bible says that we are to “train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it” (Proverbs 22;6)…The Bible trumps your stupid arguments every time.

          • Geri Ungurean

            Our three children repented and asked the Lord Jesus to come into their lives and be their Lord and Savior in their teens.

            Children come of age when they make a decision to walk with the Lord or not. Parents can oly raise up their children the way they should go (the Bible) and then they are on their own.

            You called me stupid. You said I was a bad parent. Condemnation does not come from God. It comes from the evil one. So therefore I know where your comments originate. I don’t accept them.

            • mountain saint

              Geri, what’s this with you and STL. Can’t you guys comprehend English?. Didn’t you take English comprehension in college?..I didn’t call you stupid. I wrote that some of your “comments” were stupid…I didn’t write that you were a bad parent. You were acting guilty. etc etc For your information, before you can have only one-half of one percent of our young people with a biblical world view, their parents and grandparents must not have not taught them or practiced Christianity at home. We were losing 85% of them every generation until now it’s less than one percent…You never have apologized for blaming the colleges and not the parents for this problem. In fact, you must apologize for anything.

      • Mary E.

        Mountain Saint,
        Do you even know what Replacement Theology is? It is the teaching that excludes Israel and the Jewish people, replacing it with the Church. In other words, according to this erroneous teaching, God is finished with the Jews. Do the research. That’s the last thing NTEB teaches or supports. I won’t even touch the Marxist remark because it’s just too ridiculous.

        • mountain saint

          Mary E, You certainly don’t know the Bible… God will never be through with Israel and the last forty-two months of the the Terminal Generation are determined onto them (Daniel 9:24-27)…You are teaching lies straight from the pit of hell and your other Seventh Day Adventist beliefs won’t save you either.

          • Mary E.

            Mountain Saint,
            I was responding to your comment on April 3 @9:42. They way I read it, I assumed you were accusing Geri and NTEB of teaching Replacement Theology, as well as being Marxist. I questioned your knowledge of Replacement Theology. Just so you know,I am a born again, spirit-filled believer who happens to love Israel and always have. I DO NOT believe in Replacement Theology and am not a SDA.

          • Geri Ungurean

            Mountain saint,

            You are a mean spirited person. I don’t know what happened in your life to make you hide behind your computer screen, and act ignorant to others. You use your words as weapons. You operate just like the Devil. I’m going to talk to Geoff about banning you from our board.

            We need your comdemnation like a hole in the head.

    • Albert

      Whereas those who have accepted Jesus shall be reckoned righteousness; Jews & Christians are on parallel tracks, but we end up in the same place. Geometrically impossible, but we do. Jews have looked to the Messiah for melinea, and when Jesus ‘comes back’ , those Jews who have looked for him will accept him; but the Messianic Jews (like Geri) have already done so. John Hagee’s ministry has done more than any other to unify Jews & Christians. A very important ministry. We know that God’s blessing is upon millions of Jews who will not confess Jesus until he returns on his white steed & then their knee shall bow.

      • mountain saint

        Albert, unfortunately, 2/3rds of the Jews in Israel will have to die before they will accept Yeshua as the Messiah (Zechariah 13:8-9)…As for riding white horses, you also will be riding one at the Second Coming (Revelation 19:14).

    • Doyle Duckworth

      Geri and Gregg, bless you both….I love you.

    • pastoe peter

      Let this be known to the Gentiles that salvation is individual to them but to the Jews God saves them as a nation ,blindness impact was to them so that the Gentiles can come in ,and note you can’t preach 3 gods to the Jews they know that Messiah is their God in flesh,watch Zechariah 12 is process of being fulfilled,when this happen ,the two olive trees (Moses and Elijah) will appear to preach gospel to the Jews,then you Gentiles your days are over

      • Geri Ungurean

        I AM a Jew, and I was educated in the synagogue. I sing the Sh’ma. But the power of God came over me the night that Jesus Christ saved me. I’m not some enigma, I’m just a Jewish lady who believed the Gospel because it was shared with me!! PLEASE don’t pass by your Jewish friends and neighbors. They need to know the truth!

    • Steve T

      Wow some are real steeped in nomsense….there are tbree wags to be saved..1… follow the law ALL the days of your life and NEVER sin.. completed by 1 person EVER..Jesus… 2 Having never heard the name Jesus, you repent of your sin before God and place your faith in Him for His mercy and Grace… see the old testament for proofs on this… remember they had no Jesus and the sacrifices were revealed to be a method of displaying obedience NOT a means to salvation.. 3 repent and put ones faith in the matchless name of Jesus… the new covenant… John 3… the way I was saved… NO OTHER WAYS EXIST…

    • Yve Clark

      Sadly, the writer of this article does not understand the diversity that is Hebrew Roots! Yes, it does CONTAIN cults that are just as he describes but so does”Christianity”contain replacement theology, emergent church, Word of Faith… You’ll find them all in Hebrew Roots. The Movement is part of the church and subject to the same ills. Blanket statements like these are divisive and unhelpful.

      He is right about the Rabbi and John Hagee but thankfully they are not representative!

      • Yve Clark

        sorry for the typo im on a mobike phone I meant “she”. No offence meant, Geri.

    • I agree with you but what about this other belief that the church replaces Israel?
      I don’t believe that to be true either

    • mountain saint

      I understand that there is a Great Awakening in Israel right now, thanks to a prominent rabbi revealing a year after his death that Yeshua is the Messiah…You Protestants have so b**tardized the Gospel now that no self-respecting Jew will want to hear your message…There are atill a few “true Christians” around and Geoffrey Grider is one.

      • Geri Ungurean

        So, I am not a true Christian. Would you like to explain to everyone here exactly why you have come to this conclusion about me?

        • mountain saint

          Geri, here you go again. Reading more into a posting than was written.

    • So…..what about the covenant God made with the people of Israel? To suggest Jews must accept Jesus is to suggest the covenant does not exist. I don’t think God makes mistakes.

      • Lorraine Jakins

        You are correct Joe, but the covenant of the sacrificial lamb has now been replaced with the Lamb of God who was sacrificed for the whole world. The old Testament Scriptures pointed to the cross from afar off.
        God has not forgotten His covenant people but He has made a new and better covenant and if Jewish people were and are really following Him and obeying His Word they would have recognized Him and now still must recognize their Messiah.
        The Scriptures havent changed.
        Jews must recognize and accept that their True Messiah has come in the flesh, just like Peter, Paul, John and all the other Jewish followers of the law did. They couldn t reject Jesus and still be saved under the old law, nor can any Jew today.
        God in the Flesh died for the whole world and no one is off the hook.

      • mountain saint

        Joe Folsom, you have to remember that Geri has only recently discovered the complete Word of God, and it shows…I think that you and Hagee are onto something. The Bible does say that knowledge will increase in these Last Days (Daniel 13:4)…I will have to study this topic more thorughly, especially the passage about the “sacrifice and oblation” of Daniel 9;27. Posters here can’t answer my questions.

      • tommy c

        Read Romans and Hebrews again.

    • Anna

      Im amazed at people pointing fingers so severely! You seem to forget you have four pointing back at you!! Dont waste your time trying to convince me cause I wasnt born to be a judge! I was born tp love, forgive, pray and worship. If you are so concerned then close yourTRAP and pray! Blessings-

      • So when someone teaches FALSE DOCTRINE to people, thats OK with you? We don’t ever talk about people’s personal faults and failings, that’s between them and the Lord. But when it comes to people teaching false doctrine, then something needs to be said.

    • 1 John 2:22   Who is a liar but he that denieth that 
      Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth 
      the Father and the Son. 

      1 John 2:23   Whosoever denieth the Son, the same 
      hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the 
      Son hath the Father also. 

      It’s salvation through Jesus Christ, or it’s nothing.
      It’s not negotiable !

    • mountain saint

      Anna, don’t forget that even Paul admonnished Peter and they were lot more spiritual Christians that we are today…As for myself, I am getting tired of self-righteous christians always trying to cut off debate because they don’t know the Bible themselves and don’t want to see Christians argue….As born-again Christians, we have the perfect right to examine the fruit or lack of fruit on another person’s tree. The Bible says, that “by their fruit we shall know them” (Matthew 7:20…I bet that Hagee has a lot more good fruit than most of the posters at this site.

    • mountain saint

      Geoffrey Grider, do you think that the sacrifice and oblation in the third temple would provide salvation to the 21st Century Jews (Daniel 9:27)? How about the Jews under the Old Covenant? Just wondering.

    • Geri Ungurean

      How many here think it is okay for a preacher of the Gospel to get rich – I mean “millionaire” rich?

      • I remember Creflo Dollar $ asking his congregation for
        65 million for a new jet. I don’t remember Jesus riding
        around in the latest chariot with v twin Arab horses ?
        Yes, I understand that we are to preach the Word, but
        some of these people are in it for the ca$h, the Word
        of God is a means to the opulent lifestyle they lead.

        Have they heard of the word “economy”, the money
        they make is ridiculous.

        • mountain saint

          Hi Mike, it seems that Ceflo Dollar is pastoring two church’s, one on the east coast and one on the west coast. He preches in each church on Sundays. After his sermon on the east coast he fly’s to the west coast to preach there. Why have two churches that require him to be at each with only a few hours between and the need for a plane to get him there in time. Well I have the same question but if that is what he does and his congregations accept that then I don’t see having a fast plane a luxery but rather a necessity.

      • John

        How much $$$ did Jesus Accept when He Preached His Gospel? Unfortunately few Christians today pattern their lives after The Christ. They live for money and fame.

    • Maureen Moss

      I went on a tour to Israel several years ago with the Canadian arm of CUFI.

      We spent one afternoon listening to a Jewish woman who had formerly been in Canada expound on Judaism.

      One afternoon, as I was walking beside our tour leader from Toronto, I asked him if we were going to meet with any Messianic believers while we were in Israel. He looked at me like I had two heads, and said and, “No!” – as though I had asked a totally irrelevant question!

      Needless to say, I wish I had toured with a different group!

      • Andreas

        We can warn John Hagee. He needs to quit preaching the gospel with political overtones. I will also warn him in due time if he will listen. I last heard him live at Canada Christian College. Shalom!

    • mountain saint

      Geri, I think you are jealous of Hagee’s success…The Bible says that it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye than for a rich man to enter heaven (Matthew 19:24)…Look at what happened to Oral Roberts, Benny Hinn, Morris Cerrulo, Pat Robinson, the Paul Crough family when they got rich. Sometimes it’s nicer being Middle Class.

      • Geri Ungurean

        Jealous of Hagee’s success?? I don’t even know how to respond to this. Well, I’ll try…..

        I grew up in a very rich Jewish home. It was a very unhappy home. My parents traveled the world without us. A maid brought me up. Money does NOT make for happiness.

        Jesus gives me JOY, which unlike happiness, never leaves. I did not marry rich. I have a wonderful Christian husband who loves me. I have a Savior who adores me. Why in the world would I be jealous of Hagee?

        Geoff and I are simply trying to tell the truth about this man!

    • Lorraine Jakins

      1. I dont think Geri is jealous of Hagee’s success. What is success after all?
      2. I dont think any pastor should get rich on money coming in to his church.
      Debts should be paid, like rentals, salaries (a labourer is worthy of his hire)
      After accounts are paid then money should be used on buying Bibles, literature and transport. Feeding the poor. Sending workers into the mission field to preach the gospel. Get rich personally from money intended for the Lords work? NO. !!!!!

      • Geri Ungurean

        Amen, sis.

        • mountain saint

          Geri is why someone said that women should be silent in the church…You will notice that Geri is critical of Hagee not because he is a Zionist but because he is rich… There is a lot of truth to Hagee’s ministry that you spiritually-deaf christians who have been in the “way” for too long can’t comprehend and that violates your denominational dogma from the early 20th Century…Instead of discussing the message, you are attacking the messenger…A lot of the truth of the ages has been sealed until now (Daniel 12;0-10).

          • Andreas

            Mountain Saint. There is a lot of truth mixed with trash. John Hagee indeed has many truths based on the Bible. However his ministry is completely false on the topic of Jews being saved without the believing the Messiah. He is preaching a gospel that will not offend his political connections in Israel. Period. We pray he gets this back on track. Do you agree?

    • Robert F.

      I pray that no new believers or weak brothers or sisters read some of these comments.

    • mountain saint

      Robert F., so you are against discussion or debate, too… You’re right. There is a lot of anti-Semitism and doctrinal nonsense being expressed here, especially from the spiritually-dead denominations like the Seventh Day Adventists… Don’t worry new Christians won’t visit this site. These stuck in the mud Protestants won’t win anybody to the Lord and there will be nobody new to visit this site (2 Timothey 3:1-5, 13). They like attacking others, like Hagee.

    • Arley Steinhour

      Who were the souls/people that Jesus took to the Father, after He left Mary Madelyn?? The Bible doesn’t say who they were, or where they went, but does say they their graves were opened, when the quake occurred at Jesus’ death on the Cross, but didn’t come out of the graves until He left the Tomb, sometime Saturday night, prior to sunrise, Easter Sunday (paraphrase mine). I, for one presume, from the fact that they were resurrected from the grave, Jesus took them Home. Now, were they newly dead believers in Him, or perhaps Old Testament Saints, He had just rescued from Hell?? Just a thought associated with the crucifixion that no one seems to ever take into consideration.

    • Eddie Estrada

      Have you not read the scripture that says, “they will see Him whom they have pierced and weep as one weeps for a long lost brother”? Are you aware of the type and shadow of Joseph revealing himself to his brothers the third time they came into Egypt? Yes indeed everybody needs JESUS but can anybody hear tell me of one ministry that is the most successful in doing this with the Jewish people? Pastor Hagee’s program is seen throughout the world including Israel and none of his gospel message is sensored to the Jewish people. They know who Pastor Hagee is and what he preaches! There are many messianic Jews who attend Cornerstone as well. The Jewish people and the nation of Israel have befriended Hagee like no other Christian pastor before. The Jews have a dark history of how (alleged) Christianity has treated them. As I said at the beginning, name me one successful ministry who has converted the Jews? Read your scripture carefully, the Jews will come to know Yeshua is their Messiah once the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. If Jews come to Christ now, then what a celebration just as it is with a Gentile. The time of the end is near when God Himself will deal with the Nation of Israel and the Jewish people. Do not forget that He will be their protector, not our denominations. There will be two witnesses and 144,000 Jews who will reveal this once we’re gone from here.

    • mountain saint

      Have you guys and gals ever wondered why God is going to allow the Russians to annihilate this wicked nation in a few years (Ezekiel 25:32-33)? It’s because the number of “true” Christians and spiritually “live” churches are so small in number and the magnitude of sin so great that God has to destroy America or apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah for lesser abominations (Luke 17:28-30)… Only 3 or 4 escaped from Sodom and Gomorrah. How many Americans in the rapture?…Mary E, it’s true that the Evangelical churches have abandoned the true Gospel and are now preaching another gospel, Marxism (1 Timothy 4:1-2)…If you want to support the 30,000,000 to 50,000,000 illegal aliens, fine, but do it with your money not my tax money… And when you give our few jobs to the illegal aliens and put their families on our welfare, don’t forget our 103,000,000 unemployed of all races and our 18 to 57 trillion dollar debt.

    • Mark H.

      Having the New Testament through entirely, ten times KJV and one time each NIV and God’s Living Word, too. Nothing in God’s word therefore exempts the Jewish people from the need of salvation alone through God’s Unique Son, Jesus Christ. The Abrahamic promise was a political one, not replacement for salvation through God’s Unique Son, Jesus Christ alone.

      My Support for Israel is based upon the fact that Christians and Jews are one through Jesus Christ, GOD’S UNIQUE SON, alone. I therefore see it as my Christian duty to back the free existence of the Jewish state.

    • frankburns

      Attention christian morons, Isalm is killing christians and raping woman all over the world and you fools debate about millionaire false teachers who are ripping off the people because of their own ignorance. The christian church is dead and it has been infilterated by Liberals, homosexuals,effeminate men, adulterers, fornicaters, liars, ect.I cannto believe the jackasses on this site !

      ps- Judgement is just around the corner !
      ps- I see more reason and compassion from the un-saved

      • mountain saint

        Frankburns, you make a very good point,,,Yes, the Church in America is spiritually-dead and very “few” Americans will be in the rapture (Matthew 7:13-14)…Yes, judgment is just around the corner and Russia is going to annihilate this wicked nation once and for all (Ezekiel 39:6 and Jeremiah 25:32-33). America will not be a superpower, if even a nation, during the Great Tribulation (no mention in scriptures)…YES, You can blame the so-called American Christians who abandoned their families for pleasure and bought into the garbage of their spiritually dead churches.

    • Debra

      And He said to them ” Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
      Mark 16:15
      Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I Am with you always, even to the end of the age
      Matthew 28:20
      True Christians do what Jesus has commanded. To share the gospel to everyone no exceptions. So those you call morons so be it but the true Christian abides in Christ. And share the gospel to Jew and gentile not to do so would be to disobey Christ’s command. There will always a true church where Jesus is the head. The gates of hell shall not prevail against the His Church. There will always be remnant to His Glory Alone.

    • Lorraine Jakins

      Its a good thing that we as believers know who is preaching false doctrine and its good to debate, thats how we grow and learn. Calling people morons is so not great as well as many other mean comments.
      The Word says if you call someone an idiot you are in danger of hell fire. (So question your salvation if you feel this bitter). This little chat/debate/learning site is actually a little mud slinging, mean spirited, nasty litte site, which I dont think it was supposed to be. I suggest that the ones who bring shame to the name of Jesus be banned. The world will recognise Christians by their love one for another. I’m out of here.

      • mountain saint

        Lorraine Jakins, I am tired of you self-righteous Protestants for you are the scribes and Phariseses of today. Even Jesus called you guys fools, vipers and serpents (Matthew 23;19 and 33)….And the true Christians of today are not exactly noted for being smart, like a moron you might say (Luke 16:8)

    • Larry

      It’s a good thing for you that you post Isaiah 9 from the KJV because the Hebrew bible doesn’t translate the same as the KJV does and has an entirely different meaning. But then the Hebrew doesn’t support the Christian meaning or the interpretation. The Christian bible interpretations all are biased toward the Christian beliefs, but that’s no secret. The entire bible, even the OT, has been given a Christian slant. So modern Christians only get what the Christians interpreters want them to see/hear.. That is unfortunate indeed. 2000 years ago, before Christianity, the Jews were the only religion which was true. Now the Christians say the Jews are false and the Christians are the only ones with the truth. When the Jews were the only true religions Christianity was still in the pagan stages! Now christianity, true Christianity, has been lost in time. I it disappeared with the last of the deciles and was replaced with Pauline Christianity which is what modern Christianity is all about. The early Christians were Jews that believed that Jesus was the Messiah! That Christianity has evolved, with the help of Paul, Constantine, the early church fathers, Catholicism and others to the 3000 different sects of today.

    • larry

      After reading a lot of the comments it seems that most believe the Jews are going to hell if they don’t believe in Jesus. Maybe we would do well to read outside the NT once in a while. After all the OT was and is Gods word to his people. Zech. 8:23 “Thus saith the Lord of Hosts; in those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all the nations, even shall take hold of him that says he is a Jew, saying, we will go with you; for we have heard that God is with you.” These are not Jews that have been converted to Christianity, these are the Jews of Judaism!

    • larry

      Zechariah 8:23

    • mountain saint

      Larry, Amen, amen…So much of the dogma taught by the spiritually-dead denominations today is not biblically correct, even in the King James version. You can only find the truth in the Bibles written in the original Hebrew or Greek…Organized religion kills and can lead you to hell (ie Catholics, SDA and mainline churches)…It took less than one hundred years for the evangelical churches to spiritually die and now they, too, are spiritually dead and preaching another gospel, Marxism or the Social Gospel (Revelation 3:14-19)…God would have spared Sodom and Gormorrah if there were only a handful of righteous people but there were only four. God would spare the United States if there were only a certain number of righteous people but there are only a “few” and so He is being forced to annihilate this wicked nation (Ezekiel 39:6 and Jeremiah 25:32-33).

    • Debra

      If there is another way to God then Jesus would not have had to die but there was no other way. The old covenant could not atone for sin for those who believed God waited for the messiah to completely atone for sin. It was accredited too them righteousness. Isaiah 53 speaks of the suffering Messiah who came to redeem men.

    • larry

      Debra, you are only looking at Isiah from the christian perspective. That perspective was invented by Christianity to make Jesus appear as THE Messiah. That scripture was written for and to the Jews and they know to whom it refers…’s not referring to Jesus. Christianity is always looking for something in the Old Testament that they can equate with Jesus to try and substantiate their claims. Like Jesus was in the furnace in Daniel, he was the rock that gave water in the wilderness, he was Melkizedec, he was the other god that created mankind, the list goes on.

    • Debra

      I researched what you said but many rabbis believe this refers to king messiah and it is not a christain interpretation only

      • Debra

        But Debra, the Rabbis do not believe that Jesus is their end time Messiah! Actually the Jews believe in many messiahs. All kings were messiahs. Any person ‘annointed’ were messiahs. That is the meaning of the Hebrew word messiah (annointed). Kings, Priests and others were ‘messiahs’ in the strict sense. The bible speaks of many messiahs. Research why the Jews don’t believe Jesus is “THE” Messiah.

        • larry

          The preceding comment was not Debra’s…it was mine. Seems there is a default that the post is from rather than to the person the reply is being made to.

    • larry

      When replying to a person their name AND their email address show by default. If one doesn’t change that default but simply replies to the comment the reply will state that is was posted by the one the reply was for not from. There is a problem here. It is stated that ones email would not be shared but it is!

    • Lorraine Jakins

      Hi Larry Of course the Rabbis do not believe that Jesus is their Messiah because they do not know the scriptures AND The Lord has blinded their eyes. When the time of the gentiles is up, which is about now, the veil will be lifted.
      Larry who do you say He is?

      • Larry

        Hi Lorainne, the Jewish Rabbis don’t know Jewish scripture but Christians do? Come on, the Jews have studied scripture from every angle immaginable! From counting each letter, word line etc. to …we’ll you name it. I have been a student of the bible for over 50 years and have attended a Christian Bible College. I have studied religions of the world and extensively studied Christianity and Judaism. I even went so far as to achieve an advanced level of Kabbalah.
        Does that make me a scholar? Of course not! Does that mean that I am always right? Again, a resounding no! But I do believe what I state is true. I will, when replying, include documentation as to my belief.
        Who do I think the Jewish Messiah is? I will simply say I don’t know at this point. I believe that he has yet to appear. THE Messiahs coming is a future event. I do believe that Jesus was not/is not that Messiah. I will post some comments and documentation as to why I believe that to be true. But, as I’m sure you are aware, that is a lengthy endeavor and a debate that is still ongoing after 2000 years.
        FYI, I am neither an Atheist, nor Christian (in the modern sense) nor a Jew or have any other religious affiliation. If I were to compare myself to any one type I suppose it would be the Berians ( those that searched the scripture to find if what is stated is true).
        While I may disagree with a religions dogma I will not attack anyone for their belief.
        I welcome any comment or rebuttal, it is a learnt of the learning process.

        • Lorraine Jakins

          Thank you Larry, I believe that all who search the scriptures will find the truth. You know I am a christian because Jesus is alive. Christianity would not exist without the resurrection. Death could not hold Him because He was sinless.
          There are so many ways and philosophies and so many teachers that man tries to reach God thru, but if you were on a road which had a fork in it and you didnt know which one to take; and if there were two men laying in the road there, one dead and one alive, which manwould you ask? The one who is alive or the one who was dead?! The salvation road is an interesting journey and when we realise that we no longer have to try and find ways to reach God because He is already reaching down to us, He has made that way. He will never deceive or fool us, He is the God of truth. If we are unsure of the way, we can ask Him to lead us into truth and reveal Himself to us. He sure will. He wont lie to you. Test Him. Read Psalm 2 also.
          enjoy the rest of you journey, its worth every step.

        • evod777

          Just as it was in Jesus’ day. It was the Pharisees and Scribes that didn’t recognize Jesus for Who He was BECAUSE of their devotion to the letter (form) of the law. When the Spirit of the law was right it front of them, they didn’t recognize it, which Jesus promptly scolded them for.

          I read your lower comments first, but now that I’ve read this background of yours, I completely understand your POV.

    • mountain saint

      Larry, I can understand why people are leaving this site in droves…Yes, you’re right that these people don’t understand Jewiaism (even if they are Jewish) and true Christianity for that matter…I only discovered three or four years ago that I was Jewish and I still have much to learn…They don’t know God the Father has a different track for us and the Gentiles have to tap into our Jewish root and not the other way around…Keep searching.

      • Lorraine Jakins

        Yip Everyone must keep searching. Obviously once you have found the answer then you can stop searching and continue learning. The gentiles (the wild olive branches)have been grafted in to the natural olive tree.(Jews)
        Same God, Same Messiah, some know Him, some don’t. All can. Just ask Him to reveal Himself to you. Simple.

    • John

      Here is a new video from a Watchman who truly understands this topic.

    • larry

      Thanks for the link John. But to be honest I think I have an understanding of the subject. The problem I see with people stating as you have ” here is someone that truly understands” what is really meant is here is someone that agrees with me. I hope you understand that I’ m not trying to be sarcastic or rude, just trying to make a point. If I gave you a link to a pagan site and stated, here is someone that really knows what they are talking about, what would you think? I understand that it is all in the individuals perception. That perception is influenced by many things, the foremost, I believe is biblical translations. I’m busy right now but later today I will post some examples.

    • John

      What this Watchman’s video contains is Hagee’s own words. Next time might I suggest you actually listen to what is shared, before making comments that make you look silly 🙂 Goodbye.

    • Larry

      Hi John, actually I did view the video…several times. I repeat You say this guy knows what the Hagee ministry is all about. That’s fine but I repeat…you state that because he has the same perception as you.
      He states that Hagee claims the Jews do not need Jesus as Their Messiah and that he (Hagee) will not try to convert them to christianity. If I understood the “watchman” in the video he claims that by so doing Hagee and his supporters are being enemies of the Jews and allowing them to go to hell. It is his belief that by not trying to convert the Jew Hagees supporters are as guilty as Hagee for being enemies of the Jews. This is simply his perception and therefore he is trying to convince the Hagee supporters to stop their support. Now I don’t accept what he says because 1. I nor that watchman knows for a fact that the Jews need Jesus as a savior. 2. No one is required to convert or even believe that they need to the Jew to be a friend and supporter. You see there are some of us that provide monetary support to assist the Jews to return to their homeland without any mention of conversion. So since I don’t have all the facts I will not judge.
      As I thought I made clear in my comment, I don’t say someone knows what the truth is just because he perceives a certain thing as I do. If I recall correctly I believe the “watchman” stated that Hagee had changed his belief on the subject of the Jewish Messiah so if that is true, what is the point?
      bTW, I perceive that your watchman is a Jehovah Witness…would that be correct?
      The real issue is the difference between who and what the Jewish Messiah is and who and what the Christian Messiah is! They are not one and the same.
      I suggest you ‘bone up’ on what the Jews claim their Messiahs role is and compare that to the Christians Messiah role.
      One last thought for you…Christianity actually admits that Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah. Surprised? That is supported by the belief in Christianity that Jesus did not fulfill the Messianic prophecies of the Jewish Messiah but will RETURN to finish the role. That is no where supported in Jewish scripture.
      I could fill this site with scripture that supports the Jewish belief that Jesus is not their Messiah and then using the same scripture support the Christian claim that He is their Messiah. It is all in translation and perspective.
      I believe there is a sixth sense but I can’t prove it…..and spirituality is something you feel with that sense and remains unprovable.

    • Debra

      I can not believe what I am reading. Your comments are so off. Jesus was the Jewish messiah but they did not accept Him. Even John the Baptist was not sure. But Jesus fulfilled the OT scriptures. The Jewish people will recognize the one they pierced when He comes back again. They will mourn and proclaim blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. He is the Christ to all people who believe. Malachi 4:5,6 speaks of His kingdom rule. That is what the leaders were expecting, the messiah King not the suffering sacrificial Lamb of God. But the scriptures pointed to it. The sacrifices and the temple pointed to it. All shadows of what was to come and what will come when Jesus Christ comes back to set up His 1000 year Kingdom reign.

    • larry

      I have another comment for the evening.

      Below is a quote from the Christian KJV bible. It is a statement made by Jesus as recorded in Matthew. I will translate the word “Christ” rather than transliterate it as it is in the KJV.

      Mat 24:5

      “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Messiah; and shall deceive many.”

      Who will come in Jesus’ name? Christians of course.
      What will they claim? That he is THE Messiah.
      What will they do? Deceive many.

      • evod777

        Clearly a gross misinterpretation of Scripture.
        1) Pay attention to the punctuation. Even your attempt at forgery leaves the telltale comma behind (saying, I am the Messiah) even though you’ve removed the quotation marks.
        2) Scripture supports Scripture. He said He was the Bread come down from heaven. He was born (of a virgin) in Bethlehem, the house of bread. He read from Isaiah 61??? and said it was fulfilled that very day.
        3) Context. The situation was that the disciples were asking him about the LAST DAYS. What were the signs and what to lookout for? Christianity has been around from DAY 1, 00AD!!! Hardly the last days.

        Your forged interpretation has got to rank up there on the list of “most ridiculous”.

        • larry

          Hi evod, that was no forged interpretation that was a copy and paste directly from the Blue Letter Bible KJV except for the translation of the word Christ instead of the convenient transliteration. I move no puntuactions. You state that Christianity has been around since day 1. There was no 00 AD. And if you are trying to say that time influences truth Christianity I’d but a toddler compared to Judaism. Most all religions are thousands of years older than Christianity. You must know that most of Christianity was an incorporation of many pagan religions. Ever hear of the festival of Ishtar? Well most Christians just observed that festival. Mithraism? Many others as well. With your comment you have just taken issue with your own Christian NT.If what I posted is incorrect then it is the KJV that is incorrect.

    • mountain saint

      Larry, Praise God, the Age of the Gentiles and Protestantism is almost over…Hagee is right and the aging empty-nester wrong, as usual…The God of Jacob is putting His spirit into us Jews (Ezekiel 37:17) and all of Israel will be saved (Romans 11:26)…These religious fossils couldn’t even save their own children and are responsivle for the nuclear annihilation of this once Christian nation in a few years (Ezekiel 39:5 and Jeremiah 25:32-33).

    • larry

      Hmmmm. I posted some links to a Jewish site that explained the Jewish thought on the Messiah and why 2 million Christians are wrong. It was deleted.

      So for those that want to hear what an actual Rabbi has to say about this subject google Rabbi Skorbac on YouTube.
      It appears that the moderator doesn’t want people to see the other side of the coin. That’s unfortunant but typical of Christianity, suppress any contradiction to your belief.

      Good evening.

    • evod777

      Everyone must go through Jesus to get to the Father, including the Jews. Hagee is either wrong or misquoted/misinterpreted.

      The Jews will not accept Jesus until AFTER HIS SECOND COMING. These are the ones who will be hunted down during the great tribulation. They will then see Jesus as the Messiah as they’ve always expected, coming in with great glory and power, trampling on her enemies. (I mean, if they, or anyone for that matter STILL does not believe Jesus is teh Messiah or some kind of King then, then they have to be a sepcial kind of crazy atheist).

      I fully appreciate the different schools of thought, pretrib vs posttrib and the down-right preposterous…

    • Holy Warrior

      Your 101 Protestant denominations have killed the truth that was in the Gospel, resulting in your gospel having little resemblance to the truths found in the original Greek and Hebrew Bibles…You Protestants can’t even agreee on who your Jesus is…For your information, you will find that, yes, some of us Jews have been “broken off,” but there are others who remained on the tree and can partake of the tree through our God the Father (Romans 11:16)…Some of you at this site have become so highminded that you are in danger of being rejected yourself (Hebrews 11:26)

    • Larry

      I. Was accused of changing the structure of a sentence to prove a point yet I had not changed the structure only the translation of one word from its transliteration. The real problem is that the bible was changed so long ago to give it a Christian POV that Christians kno w little or nothing about those changes. most Christians (90%) have never read the bible cover to cover.

      I will show a couple of places that Christian translators and red actors have either changed scripture or have inserted personal commentary to give the false impression that the bible is really favoring Christianity.

      Let’s look first at a Christian translation that is foundational in the Christian view that Isaih proves that Jesus is the Messiah.

      First the Christian translation.
      Isaiah 9:6;
      “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
      This, the Christian, states is referring to Jesus..

      Now let’s look at the Hebrew (Jewish) translation from the Jewish Publication Society bible..
      Isaiah 9:5;
      “For a child is born unto us, A son is given unto us; And the government is upon his shoulder; And his name is caled Wonderful in council is God the Mighty, the everlasting Father, the Ruler of peace.”
      Do you see the difference? I don’t see need for further comment here.

      Another is a direct insertion of a red actors comment into the bible of his personal belief. It was done around the third century. It is prolly not know to most Christins because if they knew then that would pose a doubt to their belief in the trinity. It is known as the Johanine comma.

      The modern KJV translation;
      1 John 5:7-8
      “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”

      Now for the original;
      “for there are three that bear record, the Spirit, and the water and the blood: and these three agree in one.”

      Now, in the original, do you see any indication of a trinity ( one God three persons) ?
      Of course not. It was not until the trinitarian inserted his belief that the verse takes on an entirely different meaning. Now Christians only see the trinity here. And their preacher/pastor doesn’t inform them of the change because it would shed light on the true and contradict the trinity belief.

      There are many places where the “Christian” translator changed the bible to adhere to their belief rather than the truth.

      Another is in Daniel where the Hebrews were in the furnace. The King supposedly stated that the forth person in the furnace looked like THE SON OF GOD ( Jesus by the Christian account ). Just how did the king know what Jesus looked like? Jesus wasn’t born for several hundred years after this event. Even after his resurrection his own followers didn’t recognize him. But this king did? And if this is to be taken in the Christian view, Jesus was the son of God BEFORE his birth on earth.

    • larry

      I apologize for some of the typos in my comments. It is my fault for not rereading my comment and çhecking spell check for errors. It appears that spell check needs to upgrade to a higher level. The correct word in the last post is REDACTORS not red actors. Also ‘probably’ not prolly…seems spell check is better with slang than with proper grammar.

      • Truth Seeker

        Larry, I swaer that the machinery at NTEB changes some of the letters and makes us look stupid…I know that NTEB can’t keep our e-mail addresses confidential and that might be their downfall…Sir, what do you think about the Hebrew letter Bible? Can we find the truth with this Bible?

    • Lorraine Jakins

      Hi Larry, re your “unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given,” quote, who is the child here? And who is the Son here? Also Jesus said many shall come in my name saying I am the Christ means many shall come in His name saying I am the Christ. Many claim to be the Annointed one. You see Larry without the Holy Spirit the scriptures are words which the intellect cant really understand, but with the Holy Spirit the words become life. It will all make sense then. The Holy Spirit for you and I, is Jesus’s other self. He said the Holy Spirit could not come until He (Jesus) left the earth. Now This Holy Spitit indwells the believer and His eyes become open to the Word of God. “The Lord your God is one”is the plural(oneness) actually. The are 3 parts to you, spirit, soul and body, but we are one. We are made in Gods image. He also said to Himself “, Let Us make man in our image” … whose He talking to?And it wasnt an angel, because angels didnt create.

    • Truth Seeker

      Lorraine Jakins, I see that you are still trying to make Larry into a Protestant… You Protestants can’t even agree on who your Jesus is…As for the spirit led Christians, I have never met a more sorrier group. They prophesied on Sundays and live like the devil the rest of the week… Whose spirit is possessing them?..Didn’t Yeshua say that He never never knew you guys and to go to hell (Matthew 7:21-23)?..Larry is better off reading the Bible written in the original languages that going to your spiritually-dead Evangelical churches.

    • larry

      Hi Truth Seeker,
      I have no problem with people trying to convert me. They say nothing I haven’t heard before BUT I can state things they probably never heard. A friendly debate is a good learning tool. The problem I see is that there are many Christians that will not even consider what I say is the truth because it goes against what they have been taught and it might remove their safety net that faith alone saves them. I am not saying all have that attitude but many do. Some people simply doesn’t have a firm enough foundation in their religious beliefs to step out of that by faith alone box and consider any other beliefs. They remain in fear…they have been taught that if they don’t accept what they have been taught they will go to hell.
      Someone once said “a little knowledge is dangerous” and someone else stated “how much knowledge is required to be free from danger?”
      I could rebuttal most of what the Christians state and document my rebuttals but I don’t have the time and this site probably doesn’t have the space to do so. It would be nice if the questions required only a yes or no reply.

    • Lorraine Jakins

      Hello Truth Seeker,

      I do know who my Jesus is, He was the Messiah whom the Father sent to redeem the world . The Lamb Of God, who was sacrificed for sins of the world. Now gentiles are included. Before it was only Jews, the lambs were slaughtered for their sins. The lamb sacrifice is no more and there is no more temple. (One to be rebuilt?)
      Jesus Christ (the annointed) Messiah, is the Son of God. He is my Redeemer and He lives.
      When He rose from the dead, graves opened and many came out of the graves. Please check this in your translations.
      Death could not hold Him, because He was the Sinless, Spotless Lamb of God.
      On the cross He cried out IT IS FINISHED. The old covenant has been replaced by the new. God still remembers those who are in covenant with Him, but He has now made a better covenant, permanent. No more sacrifices.
      The work has been completed for our salvation. No need to keep on looking for another way. Job done! And I am not a protestant, I was never a roman catholic.

    • Truth Seeker

      Lorraine Jakins, you are obviously from the “Quiet Generation”, the last Christian generation, and after that followed my generation of Baby boomers and we rejected both God and family until now there is less than one-half of one percent (1%) of our young people with a biblical worldview… Both yours and my generation are dying off, resulting in one of the wickest nations in the history of man…I am sorry but your Protestant Jesus is not my Yeshua, the Jewish Messiah… I am a Messanic Jew myself and I refuse to attend your spiritually-dead churches like the Assemblies of God and other evangelical churches. These churches (sic) are no longer preaching the Gospel but Marxism and secular humanism… Accordingly, America is doomed and is to be annihilated by the Russians in a few years (Ezekiel 39:6 and Jeremiah 25:32-33).

    • Lorraine Jakins

      Hello truth seeker, If your Messiah doesnt fit this description, then I am sad to say you have found a false christ, or you have a false idea of the Christ, nevertheless you will recognise Him when He returns to rule by the nail marks in His hands.
      If you were a messianic jew you would have recognised Him already.
      You tube Jacob Prasch, maybe you will find the truth you are looking for. He maybe a bit too jewish for you though.
      I truly pray that you will find the truth.
      love from me in Christ Jesus,

    • Truth Seeker

      It’s our Jewish Messiah who is going to be ruling the world for a thousand years, not any of you Gentiles (Ezekiel 37)…If you want to make it to heaven, you are going to have to be grafted onto our tree, not any other tree (Romans 11)…The last forty-two months of the Terminal Generation are determined onto us Jews, and the nations will be judged by the way they have treated us (Genesis 12:3)…Our sons will be the preachers during the last forty-two months, not any of you Gentiles (Revelation 7)…Thank God, your Church age is almost over and the “few” true Christians are going to be taken out of here… Israel is going to become the paramount nation on earth.

    • Richard Mann

      You also understand that during the 7 tribulation, which is punishment of both the Jews and gentiles who have refused Jesus as Lord, God, Messiah. Israel still has that one week of 7 which was put on hold when the Jews first came back to Israel from the Babylon, Persian captivity. Only a remnant of Jews will be left by time the Antichrist declares himself as god, and starts all out war on the Jews. It is true that Jesus will rule from Jerusalem, but all that have come to saving grace, and have been born again of the Spirit during this age of grace, will rule with Christ Jesus. Don’t get to caught up in your Jewishness to the point that you think you will have a special place in the Kingdom. During this age of grace, Jew and gentile alike are lost and have to be saved by grace through Christ Jesus. And if you find yourself still here after the rapture of the “true Christians” you are not going to be a happy camper. Death will rule during those last seven years. Both Jews and Gentiles will die in mass.

    • mountain saint

      Richard Mann, before you become so highminded and think that you Gentiles have replaced us Jews, you will have to remember that, if you want to be saved, you have to be grafted into “our” olive tree (Romans 11:20-24) and you can’t be anti-Semitic (Genesis 12:3)…There are no seven years of Tribulation anywhere in the Bible. Yeshua, our Jewish God, completed the first half of the 70th week of Daniel 9:24-27 in the First Century and our two Jewish witnesses will be completing the second half in the 21st Century (Revelation 11:3)…The bride of our Jewish Messiah will be taken from the earth before the trouble begins (Isaiah 57:1)…For your information, the last 42 months of the Terminal Generation belong to us Jews. Consider: (1.) 144,000 of our sons will be doing most the preaching to the world (Revelation 7) (2.) our two Jewish witnesses will be doing the preaching to the lost sheep of Israel (Revelation 11:3) (3.) the God of Jacob will be protecting our Messanic Jews in the wilderness (Revelation 12:6) And (4.) our Jewish anti-christ (Genesis 49:16) will be ruling the world for 42 months from Jerusalem (Revelation 13:5).

    • frankburns

      Could someone explain to me these two verses. Romans 10:1 Brethren, my hearts desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

      Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is power of God unto salvation to every one thatbelieveth; to the jew first, and also to the Greek.

    • larry

      Hi Frank,
      What must first be understood is that Pauline Christianity (modern Christianity) preaches a ‘gospel’ about A man (Jesus) and not the ‘gospel’ of the man (Jesus). Pauline gospel was a ‘ saved by grace’ (faith alone) rather than a gospel of the ‘kingdom of heaven’. The good news Jesus taught was that there is life after death in Gods kingdom. In this kingdom of God or heaven the Jews will be the rulers! That seems to slip through the cracks of Christianity. What Paul taught was, for the most part, different from the early church that was headed by Jesus’ brother James and Peter.The twelve were observant Jews who followed the Torah in laws, holy days, kosher food etc. Look at Acts chapter 11 and you will find that Peter, about 10 years after the death of Jesus, made the statement that he had never in his entire life eaten anything non kosher. That included the years spent as a deciple of Jesus. I do know that God was referring to the Gentiles here but the fact remains that Peter declared that he was an observant Jew all his life. It was Paul that changed the early church beliefs into a religion (Christinity) he invented. Many times we see Pauls teaching conflicting with the teaching of Peter and James. Paul was nothing more than an a self appointed Apostle and an àpostate Jew creating his own religion which was at odds with Judaism and that religion (Christianity) remains at odds with Judaism today. Ever wonder why almost all of the Christian bible was written by Paul?

    • Richard Mann

      Larry sounds like a “Jesus only” Jew first, follower. You are totally off you teaching there. Paul taught the same Jesus and Him crucified as Peter and all the other apostles taught. To teach differently is pure garbage and should not be listened to.

    • larry

      You have no clue as to what I believe nor do you have a clue to the origin of Christianity or church nor biblical history.

      Have you never read Galatians 2 where Paul declares “I opposed Peter to his face because he was wrong”?

      Read Acts chapter 21.

      While there are many conflicts between Paul and the early church I won’t pose any other comment except one. That one is, Paul’s closest friend and companion Barnabas deserted Paul in the disputes. Remember, the early church AND the deciples were observant Jews!

      After Peter and Paul had their confrontation they had no further amicable relations.

      Acts, which was written by Paul’s friend Luke, tries to show that Paul was always on good terms with the original deciples and that Paul brought Peter and James around to his view…not so.

      Who would YOU think correct, Peter and James who were deciples of Jesus or Paul who never knew Jesus personally but claimed to have been visited by Jesus? BTW, Paul’s two accounts of his ” vision” of Jesus have conflicting accounts. Nothing new for someone that claims he will be whatever he has to be in an effort to convert.

      I’m sure I would better spend my time talking to a wall than here. They have eyes but cannot see, ears but cannot hear!

      A little more searching scripture and less perusing would serve you well!

    • Lorraine Jakins

      Hi Larry, I would recommend that you pray for understanding before you read the Word of God. Your understanding is way out and way off. Your teachings are not from the Holy Spirit of our Almighty God. Sorry.

    • larry

      Hi Lorraine,
      I’m not teaching, I’m stating my POV. I think what you intend to say is that my POV does not agree with yours. Actually you are making the statement that what you state is the truth and what I state is false, in other words if I don’t agree with you I am wrong. If you read my comments they are ALL documented by writings in the bible. Sorry. 🙂

    • larry

      The problem with most Christians is, as I see it, cognative dissonance.

      Cognitive dissonance is a theory of human motivation that asserts that it is psychologically uncomfortable to hold contradictory cognitions. The theory is that dissonance, being unpleasant, motivates a person to change his cognition, attitude, or behavior. This theory was first explored in detail by social psychologist Leon Festinger, who described it this way:

      Dissonance and consonance are relations among cognitions that is, among opinions, beliefs, knowledge of the environment, and knowledge of one’s own actions and feelings. Two opinions, or beliefs, or items of knowledge are dissonant with each other if they do not fit together; that is, if they are inconsistent, or if, considering only the particular two items, one does not follow from the other (Festinger 1956: 25).

      He argued that there are three ways to deal with cognitive dissonance. He did not consider these mutually exclusive.

      1.One may try to change one or more of the beliefs, opinions, or behaviors involved in the dissonance;
      2.One may try to acquire new information or beliefs that will increase the existing consonance and thus cause the total dissonance to be reduced; or,
      3.One may try to forget or reduce the importance of those cognitions that are in a dissonant relationship (Festinger 1956: 25-26).

      Cognitive dissonance has been called “the mind controller’s best friend” (Levine 2003: 202). Yet, a cursory examination of cognitive dissonance reveals that it is not the dissonance, but how people deal with it, that would be of interest to someone trying to control others when the evidence seems against them.

      For example, Marian Keech (real name: Dorothy Martin) was the leader of a UFO cult in the 1950s. She claimed to get messages from extraterrestrials, known as The Guardians, through automatic writing. Like the Heaven’s Gate folks forty years later, Keech and her followers, known as The Seekers or The Brotherhood of the Seven Rays, were waiting to be picked up by flying saucers. In Keech’s prophecy, her group of eleven was to be saved just before the earth was to be destroyed by a massive flood on December 21, 1954. When it became evident that there would be no flood and the Guardians weren’t stopping by to pick them up, Keech

      became elated. She said she’d just received a telepathic message from the Guardians saying that her group of believers had spread so much light with their unflagging faith that God had spared the world from the cataclysm (Levine 2003: 206).

      More important, the Seekers didn’t abandon her. Most became more devoted after the failed prophecy. (Only two left the cult when the world didn’t end.) “Most disciples not only stayed but, having made that decision, were now even more convinced than before that Keech had been right all along….Being wrong turned them into true believers (ibid.).” Some people will go to bizarre lengths to avoid inconsistency between their cherished beliefs and the facts.

      Robert T. Carroll

      There was a group study in which four lines of different lengths were drawn on a board. The majority of the subjects were told beforehand to state that line 2 was the shortest when actually line 4 was the shortest. The group was asked to state, individually, which line was the shortest. The majority stated line 2 was the shortest. The rest stated line 4 was the shortest. After hearing the responses by the majority that line 2 was the shortest most of the other participants who stated that line 2 was the shortest changed their opinion to agree with the majority knowing that they knew that line 4 was actually shorter. Christians, when presented with facts that contradict their religions tenants, will go along with their particular denominationl teaching knowing that it is in error but agree. It is whitewashed as “acceptance by faith”. Blind faith is surely a fitting description! Oftentimes the Christian finds it uncomfortable to agree with fact and actually advocate a spurious doctrine.

      Next…the evolution (morphing) of Judaism into modern Christianity.

    • lary

      Several millinnia in our past there were civilizations that worshipped many diverse gods. Among them were the gods of the

      Gentiles, heathen as our comtemporaries would call them. Long before Judaism and Christianity there were many religions

      based on polytheism, or the worship of many dieties. Among those cultures were, but not limited to, the Egyptians,

      Canaanites and Phlistians. Being polytheistic there were many dieties including Baal, El, Elohim, Asherah, Astarte,

      celestral bodies, even humans such as Egyptian Pharoahs, Chinese Emperors and kings.

      During the bronze age a man named Abram began teaching a monothestic religion even though his father, Terach, was a

      polytheist that made his living selling idols of various gods. Abram, Abraham as he was later named, is considered the

      Patriarch of the Jewish people. Judaism got it’s spark from Abraham and in time became the religion of the Jews.

      Abraham also became a significant figure in Islam and Christianity as well as Judaism. Judaism is the parent religion of

      Christianity. Abrahams son Ishmael was the father of the Arabs and Islam while Judaism and Christianity sprang from Isaac,

      Abrahams other son. Thus Islam and Judaism became monotheistic religions.

      Fast forward a few millinnia to the first century C.E.

      Here we find a man called Jesus (Yeshua or Joshua), a Jew and probably of the Pharisee sect. Jesus was often called Rabbi

      that meaning he was a Jewish teacher and in the truest sense, one that specializes in Jewish law (Halacha). As I stated, I

      believe Jesus was a Pharisee because of his teaching style. A lot of the stories he told, the metaphors and his actions

      were indicative of the Pharisees. John the baptiser, Jesus’ cousin, was also a strict Jew, a descendant of a Jewish priest.

      He came “baptising” which was actually a Jewish ritual known as a mikvah or mikveh. The mikvah is instramental in the

      conversion process of Jews. It appears that Christianity adopted this practice with a modification in meaning.

      Jesus and his deciples were Jews in every sense of the word. Jesus’ gospel was the gospel of the kingdom of God, the King

      and His domain. The good news of Jesus’ teaching was that there is life after death in Gods kingdom. All seemed to be going

      well until Jesus got involved with politics. He and his deciples were convinced that he was THE Messiah. The temple priests

      saw this as Jesus claiming to be an earthly king of the Jews and convinced the Romans that he was to be the leader of an

      insurrection. The Priests therefore believed that it was better that one should die to save many. If Jesus was killed it

      would be the end of the revolt before it cost the lives of many Jews. Jesus was cruxified and his deciples formed what some

      call the “Jerusalem Church”, a group of halacha observant Jews that believed Jesus was the Messiah.
      The Jewish leader of the time Gamaleal saw no threat in them and actually thought of them as just another group of heretics

      that followed a self proclaimed messiah and would eventually come to an end. We see in Acts chapter 5, Gamaleal’s reaction

      to the deciples teaching when they were brought before him.

      Acts 5:35-39 “And (Gamaleal) said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching

      these men. For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; (Messiah) to whom a number of men, about

      four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
      After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished;

      and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed. And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone:

      for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply

      ye be found even to fight against God.”

      Just as Gamaleal had thought their leader was killed and they were dispersed and were also killed. The Jerusalem church,

      the Jews that believed Jesus was THE Messiah, came to naught.
      There arose another group, a group of Gentiles, lead by a Jewish heretic named Saul (Paul) that would become the “church”

      that believed that Jesus was the Messiah. This group as first called Christians in Antioch (Acts 11:26), a result of one of

      Pauls missionary trips.

      We have a division between Christianity and Judaism and a conflict as to which is the true religion from God.
      Throughout history we have seen a rise and fall of the relationship between God and man and each time we see God coming to

      mans rescue. Adam and Eve fell away and was cast from the garden but with a covenant from God was given the role of being

      the ancestors of THE Messiah. Mankind remained evil until God brought the flood and saved only Noah and his family and

      mankind was, once again, given a fresh start with a covenant from God. Again, with mankind on the downside of God, they

      were given another chance of salvation through a covenant from God to Abraham. Mankind has, once again, became evil and God

      has promised salvation. This salvation will come through Judaism not Christianity (Jer. 31:31ff). In the last days the

      gentiles (Christianity) will finally see that the Jews are right as God has said.

      Zec 8:23
      “Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of

      the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that

      God is with you.”

    • truth seeker

      Larry, you never did answer the question of “does the Jews have a separate path to salvation,” the Old Covenant way?…Yes, you are right Yeshua was a preacher to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:24) and, yes, the Gentiles are right that by His death on the cross and resurrection three days later, salvation was made available to everyone…This same Yeshua (word) is the third part of “us” of Genesis 1:26, has always existed, created the earth, died on the cross for us, and is soon coming back to judge the world and to rule and reign from Jerusalem forever (first chapter of John)…The question remains- does the Jews have a separate path to salvation?

    • truth seeker

      Larry, how can the Jews obtain forgiveness when we don’t even have a Temple where we can do our sacrifices and oblations? Maybe, in the near future, when we do have our third temple (Daniel 9:27)..How about all those millions who died before us?…I am new at this. I only discovered recently that I was 100% Jewish (Ezekiel 37).

    • larry

      Hi truth seeker,

      I’ll answer your last two question with this one comment.
      First, does Jews have a separate path to salvation?
      It is my belief that there is only one path to salvation.
      Matthew 7:14 states: “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”

      That scripture states “way” not ways. My question, since Christianity has a majority of believers why then, if their ‘way’ is correct, will there be so few that enter in?
      The way to salvation is through repentance and faith But fait alone does not save.. 1 John 1:9 state; “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
      So why is faith necessary? We are told in Hebrews 11:6 “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that COMETH TO GOD MUST BELIEVE THAT HE IS, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
      Also Eph 2:8;
      “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
      So faith is the first step toward salvation because one must first believe that there is a God and that He will forgive their sins. This ‘faith’ is an act of righteousness and is one of the fruits of the spirit. Galatians 5:22-23;
      “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”
      As to the animal sacrifices…there can be no sacrifices if there is no temple so sacrifices are no longer required.

      1Sa 15:22; “And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.”
      Let’s look at a verse that might shed ore light on e subject. In Hosea6:6 we find God speaking and he states “For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.”
      Mercy means to have compassion and forgiveness toward someone that it is I one power to punish.

      I tend to think in terms of cycles.
      The cycle of sin;
      1.Sin: The transgression of Gods law.
      2.Oppression: The chastisement of that sin.
      3.Repentance: A cycle in itself, see below.
      4.Deliverance : Forgiven.

      Cycle of Repentance;
      1. Regret: True sorrow for sins.
      2. Confession: Confess sins to God.
      3. Abandonment: Put aside the old sinful ways.
      4. Resolved: God has forgiven the sin.

      We achieve the above through the prayer cycle.
      Cycle of prayer:
      1.Praise: first we praise God.
      2.Requests: It is this re we ask the forgiveness.
      3.Thanks:Here we thank God for his goodness and forgiveness.

      Jesus teaches us how to pray. In Matthew chapter 6 he tells us who to pray to and who forgives us.

      “After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.”

      In Mat 6:14 we find:
      “For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:”

      In nutshell: God will forgive us if we repent and ask HIM for forgiveness. That is the way for all!

    • larry

      Sorry for all the typos in the above post. I was in a hurry and did not proof read before I posted. My keyboard has some keys that sometime doesn’t enter the letter or number and sometimes spell check inserts the wrong letter and causes an entire word to be meaningless in context. I’m sure you can read through the blanks and misspelling. If there is a problem with the quotes I have given where they are found so you can read them from your bible. I posted them as a C&P from blue letter bible KJV and that sometimes leaves a lot to be desired because one sometimes had to edit the C%P. If you still have a problem let me know.
      Hopefully you understand, and see the documents, that I believe there is only one way to salvation for ALL. That being repentance and asking God (Yahvah) for forgiveness. That is it, nothing more is required.

    • Debra

      Jesus said repent and believe, do not marvel that you must be born again. Most of what you wrote can only be done by a believer in Christ. It is those who repent of their sins and believe onto Christ who are born again and receive the Helper, comforte, the Holy Spirit. It is only those who are born again who worship in Spirit and in truth. This is the only way to The Father in heaven. We have a High Priest interceding for us, we have an advocate in Christ who knows our weakness. For He lived as a man. He declared that He was the Son of Man which is the title of the Messiah. It was this that they wanted to kill Him. Even the High Priest that year prophesied “better one man die for the people than they all die” so it was as Jesus said that the Son of Man would suffer and die and on the third day arise from the dead making the atonement for man’s sin. The temple curtain was ripped in two separating man from God. It was Jesus who entered the Holy of holies with His blood which was accept by God for all those who would believe on Him. This was the beginning of the new covenant no more sacrifice to be made for men both Jew and gentile. Jesus paid it all. It was finished

    • Lorraine Jakins

      Hi Larry, I agree that one has to ask God for forgiveness, but dont forget the scriptures. There is no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood. Old covenant lambs slaughtered each year for forgiveness of sins. (No more temple now)
      New covenant Lamb of God. Whichever way still shedding of Blood for forgiveness of sin. Gods Word said it, that settles it.

    • Larry

      Hi Lorraine,
      It was my intention to dismiss the debate on blood redemption but I just couldn’t resist. So bear with me a minute.

      In the OT we find diverse kinds of sin. One is the “intentional” sin. For that the penalty was casting the offender out from among the people with no forgiveness. I think you might find that is the same as the “unpardonable” sin in the NT.
      Another is the “unintentional” sin. It is at toned in different ways, one was with a blood sacrifice but not always.
      If you would, begin reading with Lev. 5:6 and read through verse 13. For the sake of space and time I will only post verses 11-12.
      “But if he be not able to bring two turtle doves, or two young pigeons, then he that sinned shall bring for his offering the tenth part of an emphasis of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil upon it, neither shall he put any frankincense therein; it is a sin offering. Then shall he bring it to the priest, and the priest shall take his handful of it, even a memorial thereof, and burn it on the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: it is a sin offering.”
      So we see that an offering for sin is not always a blood offering. A blood offering is not demanded of God!
      Now about the Christian view that there was only one “innocent” blood of Jesus as the final redemption.
      Actually human sacrifice was considered, by God, as a grave sin. Only certain animals was acceptable in blood sacrifices.
      It was the pagans that began human sacrifices. It was their belief that the “innocent” blood of their children that would save them.
      We read of the pagans offering their children as burnt offerings in Deut. 12:31 and a warning from God to not follow the practice of human sacrifice.
      “Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hat etch, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.”
      Here we find that the children were considered, by God, as innocent blood.
      Psalms 106:37-38;
      “Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils, and she’d innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.”
      God states that human sacrifice had never entered his heart. So did he designate Jesus as the human sacrifice from the beginning as Christianity teaches? I think not.
      Jeremiah 7:31:
      “And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.”

      God also states that no man can redeem another, there is no “one man dies for all”!
      Ez. 18:20:
      “The soul that sin neath, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son…..”
      Another point, the offering MUST be placed on the altar that is why there are no offering in Judaism today. They have no temple with the altar. A cross won’t suffice, only the altar.

      I realize that Lev. 17:11 is a critical verse for Christianity.
      ” for the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.”

      Notice that, in context, God is talking about kosher eating here and is referring to the blood of all, mankind and animals alike, as being the life of the flesh and not to be eaten but used for sacrifice. But we have seen where blood sacrifice is not the only sacrifice accepted by God. What does God say about sacrifice being demanded?
      Hosea 6:6; “for I desired mercy, not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.”
      Psalms 40:6 KJV “Sacrifice and offerings thou didn’t not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offerings and sin offerings hast thou not required.”

      Why not have your ear and eyes opened as David’s was?
      Ears to hear and eyes to see!

      Points to ponder.
      If everyone is born in sin as Christianity then Jesus was as we’ll. He was born of an offspring of Adam and Eve as we’ll.

      Where did Cain and Abel learn about sacrificing? As I stated earlier, the punishment for intentional sin was being cast out. Those that sinned in the garden were cast out because they committed an intentional sin!

      Come on do some biblical research and stop taking the “blind faith” approach and listening to preachers that have all been taught the same mistruth at some bible cemetery.

    • Larry

      The word above in Lev 11 should be EPHAH, a grain. Thanks to spell check they inserted emphasis.

    • larry

      I meant that an ephah is a measure of grain here not the actual grain. Long night with no coffee.

    • What’s up, after reading this awesome post i am too glad
      to share my familiarity here with friends.

    • Larry

      The Isaiah 9:6 quote at the beginning of this blog is strictly a KJV Christin translation that intentionally reads as though it refers to Jesus. It is not the strict Hebrew to english translation and does not refer to Jesus!

    • Richard Mann

      Who then, does it refer to?

    • Larry

      Ley me first give the Hebrew to English translation, not from a Christian translator but from an actual Hebrew (Jewish) translator.
      The original states:
      And his name IS called Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom;

      That is translated: “Wonderful in council is God the mighty, the everlasting Father, the Ruler of peace.”

      The Christian conveniently leaves out a few word to make it appear that a man, Jesus, would be God by translating as written in the opening of the blog.

      The Christian places commas where they should not occur thus rendering : Wonderful, counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of peace to describe a man they call Jesus.

      That is a long stretch from the original that states that GOD is a wonderful councilor, he’s mighty, he’s the everlasting father and the ruler of peace.

      That is the NAME the man spoken of in Isaiah is to be called not who he is. There are differences of opinions as to just whom this refers to but it is clear it is not referring to Jesus. And is certainly not claiming that Jesus is God!

    • larry

      BTW Richard notice the next verse which states that “the government shall be upon his shoulder.” The government was never on Jesus’ shoulder. He was never a governor nor king. He was a Jewish Rabbi!

    • larry

      As I stated, Jesus was only a Jewish Rabbi and prophet but he truly thought himself as THE Jewish Messiah. He was not the Messiah but in an effort to convince other that he was the Messiah, Ashe himself believed, he went about purposely doing acts that was predicted of the Messiah. We often see, in the NT, where he would state that he is doing a certain thing so that what a prophet had prophecies of the Messiah would come to pass. He intentionally committed these deeds to cause it to appear that he was THE Messiah. He was so convinced that he thought God would intervene in his life in every way to install him as the Messiah. One such event took place in the garden when he told the deciples to take swords to fight against the Romans. They stated that they had only two, I believe, and Jesus said that would be enough because he was sure that God would intervene. That is more but I will skip ahead to the cross. While upon the cross Jesus finally realized that he was not going to be THE Messiah and thought that God had forsaken him in that God had not intervened and unstapled him as THE Messiah. Thus we find Jesus questioning God “my God why hath thou forsaken me?” Remember, Jesus said in the last days many Christians will come claiming that Jesus is THE Messiah and will deceive many! Yup, it is there in the KJV bible!

      • Lorraine Jakins

        Larry, Jesus said that in that in the last days (thats about now) many will say , theres the Messiah (the Christ) or heres the Messiah (the Christ) . He said that there will be deceivers saying this. HE did not say they were christians. There are deceivers out there Larry telling people of false messiahs, but in fact when Jesus said to Peter, “who do you say that I AM?
        Peter answered, You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God” Jesus answered him and said “flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father in Heaven. ”

        You see only the Father can reveal this mystery to you Larry. Ask Him to. He will! I love you Larry with he love of the Lord Jesus Christ and hope to see you at His coming.

    • larry

      I won’t apologize for the actions of spell check and auto correct. They have a vocabulary of a grammer school child and spelling to match.
      There are several words above that make no sense in the context and was not my original word but was deemed the appropriate word by auto correct etc. One such word is “unstapled” which replaced my word “installed”. There are more but I will not try to correct every one. I hope you can do that as you read my post. You’re grammar and comprehension far exceeds spell check and auto correct I’m sure.

    • In your post that states Jesus was born of the seed of Adam and Eve is sadly mistaken. Mary was a virgin and the spirit of the Lord came upon her and she became with child. God incarnate in a human body. Blameless and blemishless of any sin in his whole entire life. The temple of God resides inside of everyone who has received the holy spirit of God inside of them. You cannot sacrifice or earn as a reward your entrance to Heaven. The shedding of the Jewish Messiah(Jesus or Yeshua) The Sacrificial Lamb of God-In human form, Blood, atones everyones sin who believes 1. Jesus is God 2. Confesses their sins to God through the holy spirit inside of us 3. And walks in Grace through their Faith in Jesus. Over 500 people witnessed Jesus alive after his resurrection and became Messianic Jews and Gentiles Christians. If you post you are a true Messianic Jew then you believe Jesus is your Messiah and your future King that will rule on this planet for 1000 yrs, and that Jesus is the visible image of our invisible God. Otherwise you will be deceived by the anti-Christ who will claim he is the Jewish Messiah and he will try to rule the world with money,power and influence that you believe your Jewish Messiah will possess. He will require a mark either on your right hand or forehead that declares you believe he is God and once you receive this mark it will provide you with the ability to aquire food,shelter,clothes etc. If you receive this Mark on your body it is irrevocable and dams your soul to hell for all of eternity. If you notice people are missing around you and on the news ,for without any reasonable explaination than UFO’s-this will have been when Jesus has raptured his Bride-church and then 7yrs of tribulation will follow with great wrath and destruction and plagues inflicted by God. Then after the fullment of scripture is complete Jesus-Yeshua will set up his kingdom and his throne will be in Jerusalem and he will rule from there.Believe what you want Larry or Truth Seeker-Mountain King or whatever- I will be praying for both of you to come to faith and truth in God’s Holy Word.

    • larry

      Hi Tracy,it doesn’t matter whether Mary was a virgin or not she was the offspring of Adam and Eve and born of Mary. He was blood of her blood and bone of her bone. Who gives the baby it’s blood? The mother and where is the life? It is in the blood. The blood that Jesus shed was from his mother not from God and was innocent. I appreciate your concern for me and your offer of prayer but your prayers would be better served if you prayed for wisdom and understanding for yourself. Christianity: like sheep blindly led to the slaughter. I know that the first “Messiah” to show up will be the Antichrist. You see, all religions have a human figure that I just they have placed as an intermediate to God. The Muslims have Mohammad, the Catholic have the Pope etc. Christianity chose a human named Jesus and then in then had a meeting of church father and decided that he was God. By your post it is plain that you have been deceived but then so have so many other Christians. Rapture? Another false belief that began in the 18th century. It’s hard to believe that Christianity began as Judaism and has evolved, with the ‘epiphanies’ of so many humans, into what it is today. It is no wonder broad is the way to destruction, it must be to aaccomodate all the Christians.

    • Richard Mann

      I get it now. You don’t believe that Jesus Christ is Jehovah God in the flesh. That makes everything clear. And to the statement about the blood of a baby and where it comes from, you need to do your research again. The blood comes from the “father”. That is why blood tests have been the first line used to determine the father of a baby when there was a question. Need to be sure of your statements there Larry. Jesus had the blood of his Father. That is why He was sinless.

    • Richard Mann

      Sorry Larry. You don’t get it because you are not part of the body. You cannot understand the truths of the spirit using the mind of the flesh. I now you have a spiffy come back for that too, so….

    • Lorraine Jakins

      Amen Richard. As I have said before to Larry. Its the sinless spotless Lamb of God whose blood was shed for the whole world. So no more temple,, no more sacrificial lamb sacrifice, nor any other sacrifice. It is this sacrifice whose blood was innocent not humanly inherited from the earthly father, but heavenly inherited from Father God to The only begotten son of the Father. This blood is perfect and able to wash away sin of all those who believe. The Holy Spirit will make this very clear to those who have ears and are searching for the truth. Jesus is the way , the truth and the Life.

    • Larry, I hate to say this, I believe you are “blinded” by all of your so called “knowledge” of studying other religions and not just studying the Jewish”Torah” which is the true Jewish Scriptures.Everything that is written in the Torah about the Jewish Messiah and what he had to go through to meet God’s requirements for the penalty of sin-JESUS fulfilled every single one of them to the “T”. Sin- classified as by THOUGHT, WORD, OR DEED!!!!Jesus is Jewish and he shed his sinless,innocent blood for everyones sins-Jewish or not,who understands He is God. The Holy Spirit is the intersecesary to GOD!! Not some dead prophet like Mohammad. Jesus Rose to Life on the 3rd day, defeated death, was seen by over 500 people after his resurrection-still visible on his body, were his piercings from the nails and spear in his side, and ascended into heaven. Remember the serpent in the garden told Eve she would not die if she ate the fruit of the forbidden tree? She disobeyed God and the penalty for disobeying God is DEATH!Narrow is the path to heaven-which is following and believing in Jesus-Few people find it!!! Wide is the road to destruction and many people find it. Again Larry, we Christian Gentiles and Messianic Jews”WALK BY FAITH” NOT BY SIGHT!!!! In the Spirit of Truth and Wisdom,Tracylee I am going to pray for you Larry. You need to ask God for his Holy Spirit to open your eyes and reveal his Truth about Jesus, because Jesus, Yeshua, Jehovah, “I AM” are all “ONE”.

    • Eddie R. Estrada

      None of you sit at Cornerstone Church! I do. There are numerous Messianic Jews there.

    • Larry

      Hi Richard,
      So you say I should do my research again? Maybe you should do a little research before you make statements. If you remain qiet no one will know how ignorant you are. I will not give you a lesson on Hematology nor DNA, you can check that out for yourself. I am a little confused by your statements. You state that God and I won’t say “God the father” because there is only one God, impregnated Mary and therefore Jesus had the blood of God? I shuddle to think at the low level you have placed God. Have you not read what God thinks about super natural beings impregnating women? Have you not also read that “flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God? Still think that God has blood? FYI, there is, on occasion, a virgin birth, it is called parthenogenesis and the baby is called a parthenogen. But that could not have been the case with Mary the mother of Jesus because the offspring is ALWAY FEMALE. So go bone up on hematology, DNA and endocrinology and report back. Oh yeah, stop being an “I believe it because the preacher said it ” type person.

    • Larry

      Lorraine and TracyLee, you are next.

    • lorraine

      Hi Larry Sorry so late. I don’t really know how many Jews cone to recognise Messiah Jesus through Hagee s ministry but do know that God has caused a blindness to be on the eyes of Jewish people until the times of the Gentiles is over. That doesn’t mean that Jews cannot recognise the Messiah. Many Jews do and know Him as Saviour Those who have been truly seeking with their whole heart.

    • Larry

      For the people condemning Hagee for not trying to convert the Jews to Christianity. I have a question for you. Since most of you believe that the Jews eyes have been blinded, by God, until the days of the Gentiles is finished, do you really think that a mortal can open that which God has closed? The “days of the Gentiles”, there’s another subject for you to be concerned with. Paul took his Pauline “Christianity to the Gentiles. So one day Paulinist Christianity will cease and Judaism will again become the predominant religion of God. Before you condemn, read the scriptures (not the N.T.) and see what God has said by prophecy.

    • larry

      Hi Tracylee,
      I am going to respond to your last statement first, actually I am going to reserve your statement that Jesus fulfilled the Messianic prophecies to a “T” for a separate post.

      You stated “…Truth about Jesus, because Jesus, Yeshua, Jehovah, “I AM” are all “ONE.”
      You are correct, Jesus and God was “one” but not as you imply. They were one in spirit and agreement, not one and the the same entity.
      You do know that the bible will explain itself if you look for the explanation, especially if something seems unbelievable or strange.
      So let’s take a look at a statement by Jesus and see if it really fits with your statement.
      “Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.” (John 20:17)

      Now to enlighten you on a couple of verses in the N.T. that was redacted by a believer in the trinity. He intentionally changed the original writing to fit his belief. His changes have been recorded in the Christian bible and now is considered as “proof” that Jesus is God.

      This is what your KJV states in 1 John 5:6-8:
      “This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
      For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one
      And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”

      The original states:
      “For there are three that bear record,(…) 8:(…) the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”
      The (…) indicate where words were added.
      Does the original give even a hint that Jesus and God are the same entity (ONE)?

      As to my “knowledge” of religion. If you always read literature written by a Baptist you will believe only what the Baptists believe. You must read critical works to see both sides to make a knowledgeable decision as to what you consider the truth. I have not placed any religious writing above the Tanakh. There is no writings greater than the Torah. So what does God say about knowledge.
      Hos 6:6
      “For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.”
      Jos 1:8
      “This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.”

      Did you not know that the Bereans were praised for their diligence in checking out what was told them, they did not accept any teachings by faith alone.
      Act 17:11
      “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and (but) searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

    • larry

      For those who think that Christians should try to convert the Jews, I have a question. If Jesus were here today, would you try to convert him? He was a Jew…observant to Judaism. Actually he was thought by some scholars to be a Pharisee himself, based on his philosophy, actions, parables etc.
      Some of the gospels try to portray Jesus and the Pharisees as enemies but, in reality, they were not. Some of the “gospels” have been rewritten by redactors to give that appearance. They were changed long after Jesus’ death when Judaism was Christianities target for criticism and portrayed as enemies of Christianity.

      Here is an example as to the friendliness of Jesus and the Pharisees and also gives an example of the same beliefs between Jesus and the Pharisees. Just so you know…the first commandment that Jesus states here is and always has been the central feature of the liturgy created by the Pharisees (still used today). It is called the “Shema”.The Pharisees believed that just to recite the Shema twice a day was sufficient for the prayer commandment. It is found in Deuteronomy 6:4-5:

      “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.”

      Now let’s look at the conversation between Jesus and a Pharisee. Mark recorded in Mark 12:28-34

      “And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
      And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
      And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
      And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
      And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
      And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
      And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.”

      Notice the friendliness, the agreement?
      Now look what was recorded in Matthew, the same encounter. Here we see that the author has obliterated the friendliness and created the view of animosity between Jesus and the Pharisees even stating that the Pharisees were tempting Jesus.

      The author of Matthew writes in Matthew 22:34-40:

      “But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
      Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
      Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
      This is the first and great commandment.
      And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
      On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

      Jesus was a Jew and a Pharisee and you should stop trying to convert the Jew and start living like Jesus not like Paul.

      Come on People read and compare and comprehend the bible. Abide by the motto “search well into the scriptures and do not rely on anyone’s opinion!”

    • larry


      Here are a few reasons Jesus was/is not THE Messiah, there are more but if you don’t see this as proof then there is no need for further evidence.

      1. Must be a descendant of David THROUGH Solomon. (1 Chronicles 22:8-10; 2 Chronicles 7:12-18).
      2. He will build the Third Temple. (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
      3. He will gather all Jews back to their Land. (Israel) (Isaiah 43:5-6).
      He will usher in world peace, “Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore.” (Isaiah 2:4)
      4. He will spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. “God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One” (Zechariah 14:9).

      Jesus failed the very first requirement…that alone eliminates him for the role of THE Messiah (Mashiach)!

    • Eddie R. Estrada

      Very, very, very WRONG…Tracylee.

    • Larry

      As relating Jesus to a virgin birth making him sinless and worthy of sacrifice. Just to think that God would sacrifice a human is really beyond belief. But Jesus was not the only recorded entity born of a virgin. Let’s look at some others. They will all be termed a myth or pagan by Christians except. Can you quess which one? The idea of Jesus’ virgin birth had it’s beginning in paganism.
      Genghis Khan
      Amenhotep III


    • Lorraine Jakins

      Hi Tracey Lee, its one thing to have Godly debates with these unbelievers, but then there are fruitless arguments which the Word tells us not to get into. They are not wanting to hear, but just to argue and insult our King. My advice to you would be to wipe the dust off your shoes, I dont see peace returning to you or any of the believers who have reached out in love. Jesus is our great mighty God and He is able to defend Himself, prove His birth, Reveal His Father and give believers His Spirit and save all those who diligently seek Him and respond to His call and His Word. Move on child of God. See you when He comes.

    • Larry

      Hi Lorraine,
      I’m not an unbeliever. We are all believers, we just happen to have different beliefs.
      Every statement I have made I have shown scriptural documentation as proof of my belief. If you choose to not believe as I do, that is what we call “your right” or “free will”. You can accept it or not, your choice. You can continue in your, we are right and everyone else is wrong attitude. You won’t hear from me again. I will leave you with this, read these passages and then take a look at your religious affiliation and see how it fairs.

      1 For. 12:7-11 and John 12:12

      You doing any miracles?
      Anything ” greater” than Jesus did?

      I think not. You can remain stiffnecked, it is your destiny! I don’t suppose you know the meaning of that expression either..that’s sad. Hint…even an animal turns it’s head to see which direction it is being guided.


    • Kwalker

      I think preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ should be free.God Bless to all!!


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