More Evidence From Scripture That Christians Will Not Go Through The Time Of Jacob’s Trouble

Now, placing Christians in the time of Jacob’s trouble introduces a FATAL flaw in post tribbers theology. Can you guess what it is? Since we have eternal security that is based on the actions of both the redemptive work of Jesus on the cross and the sealing of the Holy Spirit at salvation – meaning it is out of our control – that means a Christian can NEVER lose their salvation.

Revelation says in 2 places that ANYONE taking the Mark of the Beast will NOT be forgiven under any circumstances.

“Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.” Jeremiah 30:7 (KJV)

Jeremiah 30:7 is a proof text all by itself for showing that Church Age Christians will not enter into what is commonly known as the Great Tribulation, but what the Bible calls the time of Jacob’s trouble. You will recall that way back in Genesis 32:28, God changed Jacob’s name, which meant “supplanter” or “deceiver” to Israel, which means “God shall prevail“. So even in the Old Testament, we can clearly see that this time of great tribulation is reserved for the nation of Israel. Good enough for me. But this is not the “more evidence” from Scripture that we want to bring you today.

Christians are sealed unto the Day of Redemption by the Holy Spirit

The apostle Paul clearly teaches in multiple places that born again Christians are “sealed in” by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation. Kinda like when you get in a roller coaster and the harness is put over you so you cannot fall out. We call this the doctrine of Eternal Security, as seen here:

“That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.” Ephesians 1:12-14 (KJV)

Now, placing Christians in the time of Jacob’s trouble introduces a FATAL flaw in post tribbers theology. Can you guess what it is? Since we have eternal security that is based on the actions of both the redemptive work of Jesus on the cross and the sealing of the Holy Spirit at salvation – meaning it is out of our control – that means a Christian can NEVER lose their salvation. But in the Tribulation, salvation can be lost just like it was for Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5. One day they were in, then they grievously sinned, and then they were not only out but God killed them on the spot.

Since you got saved, haven’t you sinned worse than Ananias and Sapphira? You know you have. Why didn’t God kill YOU on the spot? We’ll talk about dispensations in a bit.

Revelation says in 2 places that ANYONE taking the Mark of the Beast will NOT be forgiven under any circumstances.

Taking the Mark becomes the UNFORGIVABLE SIN during that time, as seen here:

“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.” Revelation 14:9-11 (KJV)

Imagine the distraught believing mother who takes the Mark only to get food to feed her starving little baby. Certainly God will understand she only took the Mark so her baby wouldn’t die, right? Wrong. She takes that Mark, she goes to Hell, no forgiveness no second chance. Ever. Obviously that is in stark contrast to the teachings of the apostle Paul, our apostle in the Church Age.

“And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.” Ephesians 4:30 (KJV)

Now do you see why Church Age Christians cannot be a part of the time of Jacob’s trouble?

In our dispensation, God has amazingly and mercifully given us unconditional forgiveness of all our sins when we became born again – past, present and the ones yet to come in the future. He did this for no one in the Old Testament, for no one in the early Kingdom Age (Acts 2-7), and He will not do it for anyone in the time of Jacobs’ trouble.

“O give thanks unto the LORD, for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.” Psalm 107:1 (KJV)

If Christians were to be in the time of Jacob’s trouble, and one of them took the Mark of the Beast, God would have to honor His word and forgive them for doing that. But in doing so would immediately place the Pauline epistles in contradiction with Revelation 14 which states there is no forgiveness for doing that. Happily, there is no contradiction because we will not be here for that. It is not the time of the Churches trouble, it is the time of Israel’s trouble.

The Pretribulation Rapture – not an “escape hatch” or an “easy out” as some mockingly say – is God removing the Church so He can deal with His chosen people Israel. God has not replaced Israel with the Church, and Christians are not His chosen people. We are two separate groups, but one day, as the Bible says in “that Day”, we will indeed be one under the Promised One of Israel.

“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.” Romans 11:25-27 (KJV)


NTEB is run by end times author and editor-in-chief Geoffrey Grider. Geoffrey runs a successful web design company, and is a full-time minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. In addition to running NOW THE END BEGINS, he has a dynamic street preaching outreach and tract ministry team in Saint Augustine, FL.

  • Wow! I am sooo glad you are back doing the radio show again Geoff!! I tuned in last night but wasn’t able to stay up the second hour. Just now caught that and it was some superb insight and teaching. I had also thought similar reading the Song of Solomon and you and the Lord confirmed it! Getting excited to meet my groom! I am still spinning from all these choice nuggets from the Word that you and the Holy Spirit have revealed. Perhaps this is the “last stretch” until the spring…I had better get the last of your gospel tracks out soon.

  • Susan Khaury

    Ananias and Sapphira were church age believers, so what is different about us as opposed to them?

    • They were not, they were Kingdom Age believers….

      “When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?” Acts 1:6 (KJV)

      they did not have Eternal Security like you and I do…will write an article on that tomorrow….

  • …And for those stuck here during that dark time, you better make sure you have the right Bible, otherwise you might just end up with the mark of the beast:

  • It was always hard for me to understand Jacob in God’s plan mostly because of the way he received God’s blessing. It is only now I realize that Jacob was a human example of the nation of Israel its struggle and coming to accept Jesus. Jacob flees his homeland fearing for his life only to return at the end and is then after Literally wrestling with God made into a true God fearing believer it was only after he wrestled with god that he disposed of all the idols in his camp. Jacobs life is a mirror to the Nation named after him.

  • Excellent as always! Looking forward to your next one. God bless

  • Amber Baker


  • “Ananias and Sapphira were church age believers, so what is different about us as opposed to them?”

    @ Susan Khaury: Good point, as scripture only states they physically died. No where does it say that they were damned. Also ironically Paul also preached concerning the kingdom, which is now called the church which was born on Pentecost.

    Act 1:1-8 KJV – 1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. 6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

    Note: Acts 1 precedes Pentecost, as only instructions unto Acts 2 onward. Also consider verse 5 which states that water is out and spirit is in 😀

    Act 2:1-4, 14-18 KJV – 1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. … 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

    Note: The prophets proclaimed the church but without understanding things. Which is the case with much future prophecy 😉

    Act 5:1-11 KJV – 1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. 7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. 8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. 9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. 10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. 11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

    Note: The couple were killed for lying, but where in passage does it say they lost their salvation? And actually it was their guilt which killed them. Basically God gave them over to Satan for the destruction of their flesh (death). That’s how sin kills us 🙁

    Jhn 3:3 KJV – 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    Act 1:3 KJV – 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
    Act 19:8 KJV – 8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
    Act 28:31 KJV – 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
    Rom 14:17 KJV – 17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
    1Co 4:20 KJV – 20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
    1Co 15:50 KJV – 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
    Col 4:11 KJV – 11 And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me.
    2Th 1:5 KJV – 5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

    Note: Preaching the gospel (death, burial, resurrection) is the exact same thing as preaching Christ or the kingdom of God 🙂

    P.S. And Geoffrey Grider claims to be a preacher ‘rightly dividing the word of truth’? Whereas I’m the false teacher? 😯

  • Paula Frazier

    Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit about the money. The Holy Spirit knew how much they had sold their home for, yet they conspired against the Lord and kept some for themselves. When asked about it, in two separate instances, they both lied to the Spirit and were struck dead where they stood.

    We as believers ask for forgiveness and receive it, but they lied to the Spirit, and, apparently, that is not forgiven.

    • Because they did not have eternal security like we do in the Church Age…no one had eternal security before Paul revealed it…

  • Sorry for going a little off topic.

    I had a moment when I was just struck with a sudden realization.

    On topic thanks for the Article it came along right after I had talked to someone about replacement theology and it could not of come at a better time as it finishes where that conversation left off. So all around this article made my evening.

  • Thank you, had been asking the Lord about rapture bcos of a dream I had & after that I accidentally flipped open my bible at Daniel ch 7 through 8. I then went to sleep, thinking I will never understand all this. When I got up this morning there it is on Twitter! I really thought I was imagining all these co-incidences until then. God bless you, Elizabeth

  • martus

    There are 3 Raptures to go and 1 that has already occurred and that happened when Jesus raptured the saints from Hades and the faithful came out from the graves.

    Rapture of the devoted Christians which is the Rapture of the Christian Bride!
    Rapture of the 144000 male witnesses from Israel to Christ called the Rapture of the Son of Israel!
    Rapture of the rest of Christ believing Israel and the remainder of God’s people which is the Rapture of the Israel Bride!

    The reason for the raptures at different times is that not all will be ready and waiting for Jesus to rescue them from the coming destruction on the Earth at the same time. The longer God’s people stay behind the harder it will be for them due to persecution and death if possible coming from the Antichrist and his followers! After the last rapture the Devil and the Devil’s angels will be thrown out of Heaven and will come to destroy all humanity that remains.

    Jesus tells His people to Watch 3 times!

    • Your comment has been updated to remove all non-KJV references. NTEB is King James Only, so when you post scripture please make sure you are using the KJV only. Thanks.

  • Susan

    Amen! Praise God!!

  • MRH, there is very little point to give sound scriptures as evidence to Geoffery Grider caught in his “half-truths” hype-dispensational maze. He ignores everything that proves his errors. The Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven, are used interchangeably throughout Acts and is refering to the same Kingdom. But in Geoffery’s maze of confusion has blinders on his eyes…REPENT GRIDER

    • The Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God are CLEARLY two separate Kingdoms. But you have to be a Bible believer to come to that conclusion.

  • Leigh

    Amen brother! MARANATHA!

  • Michelle

    I wish our church at the Bible study classes would explain things like this, but they never do. They just talk about love mostly and I never really feel that you have gained any knowledge.

  • Pete

    Those who take the mark are those who reject Jesus Christ and instead worship a false god.

    By definition, that is a person who is unsaved.

    Ananias and Sapphira were killed but as others have pointed out, the passage says nothing about them losing their salvation. Where did you pick up this teaching???

    You cannot prove your viewpoint unless you add to the Bible.

  • Larry/vietnamvet1971

    If people reject the Gospel message & reject the Blood sacrifice and His Finished work on the Cross in this Age of Grace it seems to me it will be so hard for most of them to come to their senses or they will remember some thing about Jesus and not take the mark but it will not be easy.

  • Beth

    Thank you MRH.

  • Kim

    Ananias and Sapphira were clearly believers as stated by Paul in Chapter 4 32 And the multitude of them that beleeued, were of one heart, and of one soule: Neither said any of them, that ought of the things which he possessed, was his own, but they had all things common. They were in fact church age Christians as are we. Just because we sin and we are forgiven does not mean that our God doesn’t have the power authority nor the will to punish us in ways that gives Him the glory. Other than that another righteous article

  • Tberk60

    What you are teaching is false doctrine. God killed them as an example to the early church. They were believers seal with the Holy Spirit and there is no biblical evidence that they weren’t. Sometime God cuts short a believers physical life but not his eternal.

  • Pete

    //The Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God are CLEARLY two separate Kingdoms. But you have to be a Bible believer to come to that conclusion.//

    Typical Grider response: an ad hom attack. If you don’t agree with his adding to and changing the words of the Bible, you are an unbeliever. Never mind that millions upon millions of truth-seeking, godly Christians 100% disagree with his hyper-dispie teaching, hundreds of known Bible teachers disagree, and the church as a whole taught the opposite of him for 1800 years. Nope. They are all unbelievers.

    What a depraved mindset.

    Geoffrey when are you going to PROVE that Ananias and Sapphira went to hell? Still waiting.

  • GateKeeper

    Geoff….this is all very interesting to me. Can you say more about the differences between the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God? Thanks in advance…..

  • B.R.

    Not sure why my post didn’t show but I’ll try again. My apologies if it shows twice.

    Martus, I’ll be honest with you, I did not read your response. It was simply too long. However, what I did notice was your salad bar. Yes, salad bar! Whenever I walk into a restaurant with a salad bar I get to pick and choose what I want on my plate based upon what I like. If I don’t like it, I don’t take it. You’ve done the same thing with your selection of [false] perversions. Instead of sticking to one, i.e.: the King James Bible, you have created your own god, making the word of God say what you liked. As for me and the many KJB believers here, I’ll stick with the only Word of God and let it speak to me, and accept it, whether I like it or not. I get convicted time and time again but I keep coming back for more. I don’t let something out just because I don’t like it, nor do I resort to man. I simply let God’s Word speak to me; and you can not do that when you resort to mans perversions.

  • Great link! I had not too long ago been in communication with a misguided brother in the Lord who adamantly maintained that his Bible read “on” the hand and he contended that the movie in discussion was unscriptural…So I directed him to the KJBible as the solution but he responded back with the standard response when they are deceived that the newer versions are better…so your link should really help.

  • Laura L

    There’s a judgement on anyone who takes the mark of the beast. In the first of the seven vials of wrath in Revelation 16:2. The verse reads: And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image. Wow! Talk about incentive not to take the mark of the beast. Some think this is the result of a nuclear explosion and these sores are radiation burns. I think it’s exactly what the text says it is: a divine judgement from God.

  • Pete

    A major point that guys like Geoff hang their opinions on, is that it’s the “Time of JACOB’S trouble”, thus the church is not going to have the trouble. I suppose the “trouble” he speaks of is the wrath of God. I would assume.

    But these guys cannot prove with scripture that “the time of Jacob’s Trouble” is the same as the 70th week of Daniel, which is the same as a future 7 year time of hell on earth. Since there isn’t a single scripture in the New Testament talking about ANY of these concepts, most notably the Olivet Discourse, which says nothing about any 7 year period of time, nor of Jacob’s Trouble, nor of Daniel’s 70th week.

    The only connection they have is that Jeremiah (speaking about the Babylonian captivity, in context) says “that day is great, so that none is like it.” And then Jesus says “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”

    But of course, at the time Jeremiah spoke about the Babylonian Captivity about 800 years prior to Jesus’ statement, that WAS a time like no other. And then when Jesus spoke of this great tribulation, it overtook Jeremiah’s statement. Jeremiah never said “and there never shall be like this day ever again.”

    Now what?

  • Allison Webster

    God bless you. I know you mean well, but, once again, you are plucking opaque scriptures out of context and reading into the words ideas that are solid yet questionable. None of these scriptures say or even infer that there will be a pre-Tribulation “rapture.” They infer that protection will be available, and it will be . . . in a safe place that may be far from your home, if you are willing to leave everyone and everything behind and go into the safe place by way of extreme faith (not unlike Daniel going into the lion’s den, or Shad, Mich, and Abedigo going into the furnace).

    Few Christians will have enough faith to leave home and food and do so.

    Luke 18:8 “. . . However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

    So few Christians will survive the ravages of Wormwood, World War III, and the starvation and pestilences that follow, that God has to wonder if anyone with faith in him will even be alive when he returns. So few will be that in the end he tells us in Daniel 12:12 “Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.” NOTICE HE DOES NOT SAY “Blessed are THEY who wait,” but “Blessed is the ONE . . . .”

    Arguing will never settle the Pre-Tribulation “rapture” theory vs. the bona fide “catching up” at the Last Trump at the end of the Tribulation period.

    If you want to know the truth . . . just wait. If you see the fall of the Wormwood asteroid when it strikes Earth and poisons 1/3 of Earth’s drinkable water and kills many, if you see the appearance of the Two Witnesses, or if you see the so-called “Third Temple” built and the daily sacrifices begin, you will know that you are deep into the Tribulation period, the Pre-Tribulation theory was well-meant but a Grand Delusion, and you will be best served to expect to be beheaded soon for your Faith, or leave family and home to travel far away to a strange yet “safe place” until Christ comes back.

    In the end, we all will be with Him, and that is all that matters.

    Stop worrying about surviving the Tribulation period. There are far worse ways to die than beheading.

  • The “great link” comment above was a reply to Sola Scriptura regarding his link: My comment did not appear under his…but way down here. Hmmm

  • Beth

    thronedancer, my comments aren’t showing up where they should either

  • Neither Ananias nor Sapphira were believers. The news of the position that Barnabas had attained by the selling of his property led the leadership of the Pharisees (see scripture below) to attempt to plant Ananias inside the group of believers. It would be like attempting to infiltrate an organization with an undercover agent. God knew the intentions of their hearts, and killed them both.

    Act 4:1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them,
    Act 4:2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
    Act 4:3 And they laid hands on them, and put them in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide.
    Act 4:4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.
    Act 4:5 And it came to pass on the morrow, that their rulers, and elders, and scribes,
    Act 4:6 And Annas the high priest, and Caiaphas, and John, and Alexander, and as many as were of the kindred of the high priest, were gathered together at Jerusalem.

  • DC


    Below written with Scripture and in a very compelling way. It sure makes one glad to be a Born Again, SPIRIT Filled and Led follower of CHRIST!

    In this time in which we live their are true saints who believe opposite of each other on the Eschatology of CHRIST’S return for HIS Church. Others believe that HE won’t come for HIS Church (All who are Born Again and obeying HIM on their journey to know HIM.) until just before HE pours out HIS Wrath on all of the unbelievers.

    Until that time that we know for sure it is my hope that the pre-trib happens but if it doesn’t i want to be prepared for anything else until HE takes HIS Church, before HIS Wrath is poured out upon all unbelievers.

    The GOD that I know from HIS entire Word, both Old and New Testaments, HE was never One to give HIS called and chosen an easy way out. But it is possible that for HIS reasons HE would want many of us to be taken while still alive to be taken up to meet HIM in the air which of course would be spectacular and it would keep others from trying to force their way into Heaven.

    With the great increase of technology and the horrendous things they are doing with it, the very fact that HE comes this way to take us up in the twinkling of an eye to meet HIM in the air, could eliminate the dark side from forcing their way in.

    For me what ever HE Desires and has written is good for me… A daughter in waiting with “Oil in my lamp”.

    I believe this is why HE did not clearly tell anyone when it will happen but many like to choose the timing and the season.

    Get your lamps ready while there is time…filled with the oil of anointing and burning brightly.
    I do believe their are three times the CHRIST will collect His people, personally i am part of HIS Church.

    GOD’s Blessings to know HIM more all the time!!!
    dc — daughter of CHRIST

  • Jesusislord1

    Hi can I please ask for your biblical foundations on how people from acts 1-7 were not unconditionally forgiven, I find this confusing I understand the story of Ananias he got killed due to the fact of his hipocrisy and the fact he lied to the spirit and he got killed as it was gods judgement on him and to protect the church hypocrisy corrupts the church, and he thought he could get away with it, it’s like God cut out the cancer of the church, I understand of gods judgement on people like Ananias but what I do not understand is your reference and people are not unconditionally forgiven in acts 1-7 please explain with biblical reasoning, I’m asking to understand not to argue or cause strife

    • The gospel that Peter preached – Acts 2:38 – was a gospel of faith + works. Meaning, you had to have faith but then there were works attached to it as well for salvation. In Acts 2, baptism was part of your salvation. When Paul was chosen by Jesus to lead the Church Age – Peter was not – he was given NEW doctrine he termed “mysteries” that he revealed first to the other apostles and then to believers. Paul’s new gospel – which he calls “my gospel” to separate it from Peter – was by grace through faith ALONE. Works no longer part of salvation. Please read the follow article to help you understand better:


  • carson

    where does acts 5 say anything about them losing their salvation? Could it be that their bodies were destroyed just as the event of 1st corinthians 5:5?
    We can’t equate leaving the body of the tent or having a judgement even upon the body that ends this life with losing salvation.

    acts 5 doesn’t give enough information as to whether they were saved or not, could be that they were just ‘hangers on’ to what they thought was a new fad, so never lost salvation since never saved, or could be like 1st cor 5 were the body was destroyed that the soul might be saved in that case, but since so little info on ananias should acts 5 even be used for this case?

    But considering other verses where a person is introduced as ‘a believer’ or ‘a disciple’ etc etc, and acts 5 ananias isn’t introduced as such, could be he and his wife were not saved, thus never lost salvation since never had it.

    jeremiah 30:7, but he shall be saved OUT OF it..
    But what is out of..? was in it then saved out of?
    Look at another, Rev 7:14, came OUT OF Great tribulation.
    So they were in and then were brought out.
    Look at rev 15:2, these overcame the beast and mark etc, yet are in heaven BEFORE the 7 vials of wrath, yet back to rev 7, these came OUT of the GREAT tribulation, not before, out of.
    Matthew 24:15 onward, the abomination, THEN, great tribulation, rev 15, these overcame the beast, but are seen out of that/seen in heaven before the vials of wrath.
    One cannot overcome the beast if one never saw a portion of his reign, one cannot come out of the Great trib unless one was in some portion of it, yet out before the 7 vials of wrath.

    a believer knows were their youngest children go, just as david said of his youngster, he will not come to me I will go to him, and david knew he was going to heaven and so revealed that his child was there already, a believer isn”t going to take the mark.
    Using that argument is saying that a believer does all they can =for things of this present world and present life, seeks with all and above all to save the skin over the bones for one more day, there are plenty of ‘hanger’s on’ to the church who do and suppose this life is it, but hangers on are not believers if they suppose that this life and the skin over the bones is the all and all, that the whole meaning and objective of life is to seek to save the skin o’er the bones.
    A believer isn’t going to take the mark as they walk by faith not relegated to seeking to save the skin over the bones as the all in all as those of the world who have no hope do.

  • TWR


    What if one mistranslation changed the whole context of the new testament and proved there was no rapture? Would you tell everyone or keep it to yourself?

    • I don’t know about you, but I have God’s preserved word. “Where the word of a king is, there is power: and who may say unto him, What doest thou?” Ecclesiastes 8:4 (KJV)

  • Sam Fox

    So hose who are ”left behind & supposed to get saved during the revival by the 144,000 preaching the gospel aren’t Christians? They are not included in the church? No one can get saved at any time or any place without being a Christian. ANYONE who is born again & saved by the blood of Messiah becomes a default member of the body, bride & church of Christ . All the PTR does is remove a current group of Christians & replace them with another later group. What’s up with that?

    Again, Jesus Himself, I repeat, Jesus Himself, makes a 2 stage 2nd advent totally impossible. What did HE say about the wheat & tares? “Let them grow together until the harvest.” Further down Matthew 13 He then says, HE then says,

    “37 He answered, He Who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.

    38 The field is the world, and the good seed means the children of the kingdom; the darnel is the children of the evil one,

    39 And the enemy who sowed it is the devil. The HARVEST IS THE CLOSE AND CONSUMPTION OF THE AGE, and the reapers are angels.

    40 Just as the darnel (weeds resembling wheat) is gathered and burned with fire, so it will be AT THE CLOSE OF THE GE.

    41 The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of offense persons by whom others are drawn into error or sin] and all who do iniquity and act wickedly,

    42 And will cast them into the furnace of fire; there will be weeping and wailing and grinding of teeth.

    43 THEN will the righteous (those who are upright and in right standing with God) shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him who has ears [to hear] be listening, and let him consider and perceive and understand by hearing.” [Emphasis added with caps in all verses. Nothing added by me]

    I dunno. I knda take Jesus’ words over any teaching that contradicts them. He also shows a 2 stage 2nd advent is impossible & that Jew & gentile believers are made one new man when He talks about WHEN He will raise us all up at the same day in the following verses.

    John 6:39
    And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that I should not lose ANY OF ALL that He has given Me, but that I should give new life and raise [them ALL] up at the last day.

    John 6:40
    For this is My Father’s will and His purpose, that EVERYONE who sees the Son and believes in and cleaves to and trusts in and relies on Him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up [from the dead] AT THE LAST DAY.

    John 6:44
    No one is able to come to Me unless the Father Who sent Me attracts and draws him and gives him the desire to come to Me, and [then] I will raise him up [from the dead] at the last day.

    Later in John He adds,

    20 Neither for these alone do I pray [it is not for their sake only that I make this request], but also for all those who will ever come to believe in (trust in, cling to, rely on) Me through their word and teaching,
    21 That they all may be one, [just] as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, so that the world may believe and be convinced that You have sent Me.

    Jesus’ OWN words here show that there are NO ‘left behind’ & that there is only one group of Christians He will raise up at the last day.

    Crowns? Paul says they are given at Christ’s appearing & return, making them ONE event. PTR teaches that Christ’s coming for the church is the 1st half of the so called 2 part 2nd advent & His appearing is some so called 7 years later.

    2 Timothy 4:8
    [As to what remains] henceforth there is laid up for me the [victor’s] crown of righteousness [for being right with God and doing right], which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me and recompense me on that [great] day—and not to me only, but also to ALL those who have loved and yearned for and welcomed His appearing (His return).

    Peter agrees with Paul:

    1 Peter 5:4
    And [then] when the Chief Shepherd is REVEALED, you will win the conqueror’s crown of glory.

    To a group of believers, the Thessalonians, who would be on this side of the PTR, who would be qualified to go in one if there was one, Paul plainly states–

    2 Thessalonians 1:6-8Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

    6 [It is a fair decision] since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with distress and affliction those who distress and afflict you,
    7 And to recompense] you who are so distressed and afflicted [by granting you] relief and rest along with us [your fellow sufferers] when the Lord Jesus is REVEALED from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire,
    8 To deal out retribution (chastisement and vengeance) upon those who do not know or perceive or become acquainted with God, and [upon those] who ignore and refuse to obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    These verses go with what Jesus said about what happens on the last day in Matthew 13:40.

    There is more, but I know that those in denial of what the Book says straight up that absolutely disproves a 2 stage 2nd advent will ignore what the LORD Himself said that is echoed by Paul & Peter. The spirit of the PTR delusion is very strong & many have much invested in this false teaching who are very hesitant to change their minds. But who is right? The Bible exegesis that show on the surface there is no such thing as a 2 stage 2nd advent? Or those using nothing but esigesis to proof text their flesh protecting & self preserving delusion?

    There is not even one verse that directly states that we go to heaven at Yeshua’s 2nd advent. That we go there at the ‘rapture’ is another flesh based man’s ‘wisdom’ supposition. It’s the same carnal wisdom the disciples used when Jesus told them to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees in Matthew 16:6 & 11.

    Then there is the blessed hope verse–

    Titus 2:13
    Awaiting and looking for the [fulfillment, the realization of our] blessed hope, even the GLORIOUS APPEARING of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One),



  • Geoffrey;
    You know brother I really like your work on the validity of the KJV, and your efforts at evangelism. I commend you greatly for both. But you are so far out in left field when it comes the this pre-trib rapture nonsense and your twisting of Scripture to present your views. In this article you are using one false doctrine (OSAS) to prove another (pre-trib rapture). Neither of which is sound Bible teaching.

    You come to the issue of the return of the LORD and our gathering together unto him with preconceived ideas and then INSERT them into God’s Word. This is a very dangerous practice. In this article you make so many errors it would take hours to discuss them all. Most glaring is your mistaken notion that this great tribulation is the wrath of God. It is a very simple thing to prove by the Scriptures that the tribulation is NOT the wrath of God. And I do so in this article: Is The Great Tribulation God’s Wrath?

    You are doing serious harm to the Body of Christ with your pre-trib teachings. Most do not understand the grave danger embracing that error presents to the believer. To any who have been hoodwinked into accepting the pre-trib theory (and that is all it is – a theory) I encourage you to read this article which explains the satanic strategy behind the pre-trib doctrine. The Curse of The Pre-Trib Rapture

    Blessings upon all who love our Lord Jesus Christ;
    Paul Benson

  • B.R.

    Yet another false translation. Please Sam Fox, use the KJB. I was going to point out all the errors in your choice of version but decided it would take too much time.

  • Gillian TJ

    Yay!!! & AMEN

  • TWR

    I don’t question your knowledge of Christian doctrine. I just don’t agree with the doctrine. The identity of the biblical church and gentiles has been mistranslated. It changes the whole context of the N.T. The biblical gentiles are the dispersed Israelites of the Northern kingdom. The church, or congregation is the same church that received the laws of Moses on Sinai.

    We have been taught that the Christians in the New Testament were of all nations. However, according to the Bible, all Christians were Israelites. Acts:11:19: ” Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only “. Acts:11:26: ” And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

    Jesus came unto his own. We already knew he was an Israelite, but more specifically, he came to Judah.

    Zechariah 12:7 The Lord also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.

    In the New testament the Northern kingdom of Israel were called Gentiles.
    Matthew 4:15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; (Zebulon and Naphtali are two tribes of Israel.)
    According to prophecy the gospel had to be preached to the kingdom of Judah/the Jews first.

    When the Apostle Paul addressed the Jews/ kingdom of Judah who rejected the gospel of Christ,…notice what he calls the other tribes of Israel.
    Acts 13:45 “But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. 46:Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
    1 Corinthians 12: 2 “Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.”

    Who you are calling gentiles were not referred to as gentiles. The nations were referred to as strangers or foreigners.

    The Jews always called the scattered/dispersed Israelites- gentiles.
    John 7:35 Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?
    The New testament gentiles that are promised salvation are the other tribes of Israel that were scattered in captivity because of sin.
    Romans 3:9 “What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;”
    Romans 9:24 “Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?”

    The true identity of the biblical gentiles changes the whole context of the N.T. because it changes who Paul was ministering to. He was not ministering to the nations. The nations would not have received the Holy Spirit at the Jewish festival of Pentecost. If they had, Jerusalem probably would not have been destroyed. This also dates the church age to the age of Aries. The story of the N.T. covered the period between Noah and the temple destruction. Jesus preached the kingdom was at hand. Jesus preached to the disciples that the events of Matthew 24 would happen during their generation.

    Mark 9:1King James Version (KJV)
    9 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

    Peter confirmed the outpouring of the spirit in the LAST DAYS was Pentecost. It was the last days for that world (age).

    Hebrews 1:1-2King James Version (KJV)
    1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the WORLDS;

    If the nations were the gentiles and God created one man, what happened? Who was that one man; Israelites or Christians? Paul and the disciples were called Christians. The doctrine is falling apart at the seams. Everything that happened in the N.T. was prophetic or covenant directed. God reconciled the two kingdoms into one nation per the Davidic covenant by establishing Judah first. Then he sent the disciples to the dispersed Israelites of covenant, not the nations. The nations were supposed to be blessed thru Israel.

    To the Jew first and then the Greek. Let no man judge you in meat. It is all a message to the diaspora.

    1 Maccabees 1:41-50 (KJV): “[41] Moreover king Antiochus wrote to his whole kingdom, that all should be one people, [42] And every one should leave his laws: so all the heathen agreed according to the commandment of the king. [43] Yea, many also of the Israelites consented to his religion, and sacrificed unto idols, and profaned the sabbath. [44] For the king had sent letters by messengers unto Jerusalem and the cities of Juda that they should follow the strange laws of the land, [45] And forbid burnt offerings, and sacrifice, and drink offerings, in the temple; and that they should profane the sabbaths and festival days: [46] And pollute the sanctuary and holy people: [47] Set up altars, and groves, and chapels of idols, and sacrifice swine’s flesh, and unclean beasts: [48] That they should also leave their children uncircumcised, and make their souls abominable with all manner of uncleanness and profanation: [49] To the end they might forget the law, and change all the ordinances. [50] And whosoever would not do according to the commandment of the king, he said, he should die.”
    King Antiochus made Israel commit many abominable acts that caused us to defile ourselves, our sanctuary, and completely dishonor YHWH. A large amount of Israel volunteered themselves to become “Greeks:”

    God doesn’t change.


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