Putin Tells Obama ‘No’ In Tense Hour-Long Phonecall

President Vladimir Putin rebuffed a warning from U.S. President Barack Obama over Moscow's military intervention in Crimea, saying on Friday that Russia could not ignore calls for help from...

US president Barack Obama finds the political waters increasingly more difficult to swim in as Russian leader Vladimir Putin continues to eat his lunch. And I mean every, last bite of it. If you are the type of American that swells with patriotic fervor every time our National Anthem is played, these are not good days for you.

MOSCOW/SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine (Reuters) – President Vladimir Putin rebuffed a warning from U.S. President Barack Obama over Moscow’s military intervention in Crimea, saying on Friday that Russia could not ignore calls for help from Russian speakers in Ukraine.



After an hour-long telephone call, Putin said in a statement that Moscow and Washington were still far apart on the situation in the former Soviet republic, where he said the new authorities had taken “absolutely illegitimate decisions on the eastern, southeastern and Crimea regions.

“Russia cannot ignore calls for help and it acts accordingly, in full compliance with international law,” Putin said. Ukraine’s border guards said Moscow had poured troops into the southern peninsula where Russian forces have seized control.

Serhiy Astakhov, an aide to the border guards’ commander, said there were now 30,000 Russian soldiers in Crimea, compared to 11,000 permanently based with the Russian Black Sea fleet in the port of Sevastopol before the crisis.

Putin denies that the forces with no national insignia that are surrounding Ukrainian troops in their bases are under Moscow’s command, although their vehicles have Russian military plates. The West has ridiculed this claim.

The most serious east-west confrontation since the end of the Cold War – resulting from the overthrow last month of President Viktor Yanukovich after violent protests in Kiev – escalated on Thursday when Crimea’s parliament, dominated by ethnic Russians, voted to join Russia. The region’s government set a referendum for March 16 – in just nine days’ time.

European Union leaders and Obama denounced the referendum as illegitimate, saying it would violate Ukraine’s constitution. source – Yahoo News

NTEB is run by end times author and editor-in-chief Geoffrey Grider. Geoffrey runs a successful web design company, and is a full-time minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. In addition to running NOW THE END BEGINS, he has a dynamic street preaching outreach and tract ministry team in Saint Augustine, FL.
  • The U.S. Government and the Obama regime dose not have the right to dictate to the Russian Federation and Putin on Foreign policy . How dare the Obama regime classify what Russia and Putin are doing as in Crimea illegal . Not so long ago I remember Obama and the U.S. military going into Libya Violating international law, The Obama regime and the U.S. Government DID NOT get approval from the U.S. Congress for an act of war on Libya neither did the Obama regime get approval from the U.N. security council to enter into Libya . EVERYTHING the Obama regime did concerning Libya was illegal and a violation international law . Way to go Putin .

  • The LAME DUCK President is now rejected by Putin again foreign policy of Hillary-Kerry-Obama shows major weakness and lack of determination.

  • it is amazing that the Obama regime is conerned that Russia is violating the Ukraine’s constitutional rights. Really? They don’t seem to have the same concern for the United States!

  • Keep an eye on ol Putin. Russia is Esau’s land.

  • Now that all moral relevance has been erased, all we are left with is power’s right to assert itself. Let Putin take over whatever he can. Let [fill in the blank, ie Assad, Al Qaeda] take over Syria. What a world we now live in since we have allowed our identity as “one nation under God” to be stripped away. There cannot be much time left before utter chaos takes over. We deserve it, though, and the only thing that can save us is the grace of God. Grace is why I sort through all of the theological arguments and end up believing in the pre-trib Rapture. We are living in Sodom but our God has an escape route planned for those who don’t embrace the evil.

  • Here is what the President was doing when the Arabs are on fire and now Ukraine is burning – oh well he is after all a LAME DUCK and even Putin knows it is over.


  • Amen, Hope! America can no longer be depended on to be the “Good Guys”, because America no longer knows the Lord. Some of us know Him, but our “Dear Leader” is doing his best to turn hearts to him, and away from God. What a sad, sorry state we are in. Let us band together and tell everyone who gives us an opening about the Lord’s saving grace, before it’s too late!

  • “Grace is why I sort through all of the theological arguments and end up believing in the pre-trib Rapture”

    @Hope: Doesn’t it depend on what the tribulation really will involve? According to scripture it’s really a great persecution of the saints. And as far as I understand things, we are not spared persecution?

    Anyway, scripture does state that we are spared from all wrath to come. And by the bible there are two main wrath events;

    Satan’s: Rev 12:12 KJV – Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    Gods: Rev 16:1 KJV – And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

    Hint: The tribulation is not Satan’s wrath, but is rather caused by an attempt to expose the Antichrist & NWO – 2 WITNESSES

  • @MRH

    The 7 year tribulation is God’s wrath. The 2nd half (3 1/2 years) of the 7 year tribulation is God wrath, and satan’s wrath. Which is why it’s referred to as the Great Tribulation, because it will involve God’s wrath and satan on earth possessing the antichrist with his wrath.

    Point 1
    Isaiah 26:20- Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

    Indignation is righteous fury. RIGHTEOUS fury, which righteous fury can only come from God.

    Point 2
    Revelation 4:1- After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

    Above here we see a rapture experience from John. He sees christians in heaven with their crowns, which we don’t get until after the rapture.

    Point 3
    Also, there are verses that talk about no man knowing the day or hour, yet there are also verses talking about Jesus coming 1260+1260 days after the signing of the 7 year peace treaty which starts the 7 year tribulation. The reason is because the rapture and the second coming are different events. The rapture is unknown and the 2nd coming will be known once the 7 year tribulation starts, people can just count 7 years ahead for the 2nd coming of Christ. He is not actually stepping down on earth with his feet as he will in the 2nd coming.

    You can’t say the rapture would be a 2nd coming, because Jesus appeared to the apostle Paul, and that wasn’t the 2nd coming, so don’t go there. The 2nd coming is when Jesus comes at the end of the tribulation and steps foot on earth.

    Point 4
    Revelation 19:14- And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

    Here we see that we christians follow Jesus Christ OUT of heaven DRESSED in fine linen, white and clean. We do not get our white linen until after the rapture/glorified bodies.

    1 Corinthians 15:52- In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    Raised incorruptible, this is when we get our white linen clothing.

    Point 5
    Also, if there wasn’t a rapture then WHO is going to repopulate the earth after the 7 year tribulation? Certainly not the christians in their glorified bodies. The christians that are alive at the end of the tribulation will repopulate the earth.

    There is a rapture of the church before the tribulation and it is imminent.

    I hope I have helped, All Praise and Glory to Jesus Christ , Amen.

  • Amen abeliever 787, chpt 4-5 of Rev is the
    rapture, the trumpet that John hears is “the”
    trumpet call of God that summons all believers,
    usually confused with the 7th trumpet in Rev 11
    which is sounded by an angel.

    God Bless All.

  • The alinement of Magog!

  • Hello STL, where have you been ? I hope
    your keeping well ?

    God Bless.

  • Excellent post. I’m going through a few of these issues
    as well..

  • Join the effort to Restore our Liberty . . . and make out nation strong again.


  • @abeliever787: The bible says nothing about any 7 year tribulation, only mentions a 7 year covenant which is broken midway. In any case, Daniel 11 and the Gospels define things somewhat, regarding the tribulation timing. The latter occurs after the abomination of desolation is installed in the third temple. And according to Daniel 9, that event is also the breaking of the holy covenant. Therefore the actual tribulation period is 3.5 years long, not 7 years as so many think in error. – Dan 11:31 KJV – And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
    Dan 12:11 KJV – And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Mat 24:15 KJV – When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Mar 13:14 KJV – But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

    As for the ‘day and hour’ aspect of rapture, it can’t be known until it occurs, though we can guess the general time frame by the arriving signs. In the same way we can decipher prophecy by the signs it leaves us. And today the end time signs are increasing in intensity, as many Christians are well aware of.. hence NTEB and such. But even so we are still only able to speculate on things, as we wont know the absolutes until the rapture. – Mat 24:32-36 KJV – Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

    Also according to 1 Cor 15, there is only one coming of the Lord1Cr 15:21-24 KJV – For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

    Lastly, marriage and family games end at the rapture event, as scripture declares. Therefore the only ones in the Millennium will be the resurrected saints. – Mat 22:30 KJV – For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. Luk 20:35-36 KJV – But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

  • Mike: I had bad case of stomach flu, 7 days in the hospital, private room, cost me $ 70.00 per day in Mexico. Getting better!

  • Indignation is not righteous fury! That messed up doctrine!
    Yes God’ indignation is His righteous fury! But indignation is anger at someone or something with rage.
    Wrath is the action taken for the indignation. Even the antichrist has indignation against the covenant, Dan. 11:30. Tribulation is the work of the devil, by God’s authority. Giving Israel over to the devil to broke their pride and haughtiness. God’s wrath comes after tribulation, Matthew 24:29.

    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
    Luk 21:26 Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

    Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
    Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
    Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
    Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
    Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    Why would they cry to the rocks to fall on them after tribulation? Because as they said God’s wrath has come and they desire the rocks to cover them instead of going through the wrath of God. The signs are what signifies the time between tribulation and the wrath. Jesus said in Luke:

    Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

    He was referring to the rapture when the signs appear.

    Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
    Luk 21:26 Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
    Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

  • STL, glad your getting better, you haven’t
    been eating any of that radioactive fish ?
    They might put you near a cliff and use
    you for a light beacon for the next 50 yrs.

  • @MRH

    Revelation 11:3- And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

    Revelation 13:5- And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

    The two witnesses clearly witness for 1260 days, beginning at the start of the 7 year covenant. They are then overpowered and killed by the beast, Then we come to the middle of the 7 year covenant, Revelation 12 and 13. Rev 13:5 forty and two months, (1260 days). This is 7 years. I am completely using bible prophecy here. This also puts the 1260 days = 1260 years in Revelation to rest. As forty and two months are not ever transferred over as a number of years.

    We have a time span of 7 years here. Now let’s also consider the fact that seals and truphets of Revelation Chapters 6-11 are being opened/blown. Clearly showing God’s wrath has begun.

    Now, let’s also look at the fact that the 7 years is also referred to as Jacob’s Trouble, Jacob = Israel.

    Daniel 9:24- Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    God decreed seventy sevens. If you’d like to take a look at scripture you will find a seven is a time period of seven years. Study it please. Sixty-nine were completed and then you have Jesus’s death and resurrection. This put us in the church age, age of grace. You could say it’s like a movie on pause. The 70th/final seven decreed on Jacob/Israel will not being until after the rapture/beginning of the 7 year covenant.

    @Ron murphy
    Revelation 20:7-10- Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[b] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

    If there are not still living humans who have not yet received their glorified bodies, then how would anyone be deceived. We can’t be deceived once we have our glorified bodies. Rev 20:10 is referring to those that were left alive and the repopulated population of earth.

    Clearly we know that the earth is repopulated and some will be deceived when satan is released at the end of the thousand years.

    Isaiah 65:20-23- There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.

    Offpsring, of people to repopulate. We can’t have children in our glorified bodies. The bible tells us there will be survivors at the end of the tribulation, sheep/believers that live and repopulate in it and the goats/unbelievers sent to hell.

    Anyhow please just look into these scriputres and study this.

    All Praise and Glory to Jesus Christ, Amen

  • Mike: actually after I got sick in a American Seafood Resturant, Stop eating any fish. Asked i fair question to you? When you recieved the gift of Salvation from God, did you stop sinning?

    If you stop sinning, then you do not need to ask Jesus Christ forgiveness any more?

    Be Ron and Dan believe there sinless that would mean their equal to Jesus Christ, because Jesus Christ was the only SINLESS PERSON ON EARTH?

  • @D N: The two witnesses infer the saints, as clearly noted in Daniel 11c, and Revelation 13a, among other places. The seven year covenant is meant for Israel, not for the world. The wrath of Satan comes after rapture at tribulations end (Revelation 12b and 13b), followed by Gods wrath.

    Also according to scripture (Revelation 20), the unsaved are raised up after the Millennium, to reform as nations for the final battle. But it also states they are deceived again, though obviously possess bodies of some sort?

    P.S. I’ve been studying things much lately, and this is my conclusion on matter (more on my name link here). You may believe my study results or not, it’s your choice bro 😉

    • carol

      @ MRH- The 2 Witnesses are not the Saints– Thats not Biblical at all. Read REVELATIONS 11:1-12 READ IT AND know the TRUTH.

      • carol

        Sorry MRH– READ IT WRONG My EYES GOT to fast in reading it READ THE WRONG WORD MY MISTAKE. Please Forgive my error. Im sorry:)

  • MRH: Question? When you recieved the Gift of Salvation, did you stop sinning? Anothher words your now SINLESS?

  • OOPS? Anothher=Another

  • “MRH: Question? When you recieved the Gift of Salvation, did you stop sinning? Anothher words your now SINLESS?”

    @STL: Is that supposed to be a joke question bro? In fact as I write this ridiculous reply, I’m drinking a fairly delicious brew called Samuel Adams – Rebel IPA :mrgreen:

    Well I guess I’m a hell bound Christian eh? Funny how Noah and Lot were righteous in Gods eyes, and yet both drank booze and even got drunk? And yet today we have hoards of Christians whom feel justified in their ability to avoid all sin? The big question is what does God think in matters? Furthermore is drinking a sin in and of itself? Answer wisely bro, as remember.. Jhn 8:7 KJV – So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

  • MRH: Thank You for your honesty!

  • D N, Clearly you are miss guided. The witnesses prophecy at the last week of tribulation. Follow me!

    Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
    Daniel said the desolation happens in the middle of the week, Dan.9:27.

    Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

    Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    The Desolation happens in the middle of the week and the armies tread Jerusalem at that time.

    Rom_11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    The Jews are not seeing truth, until the Gentiles have quite trodding Jerusalem.

    Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
    Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

    1260 days = 3 1/2 years or 42 month at the last half of the week, the time of great tribulation.

    The antichrist will continue 42 months once he has received power from satan, the last half of the week, the tribulation period.

    Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

  • D N, Rev 20:7-10 is clearly after the millennium, by that time the world’s population has grow immensely, once again Gog and mag has been gathered by satan!

    Eze 39:12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

    What is the use to bury if judgment is due.

    Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

    This wasn’t done in the millennium, it was done before the reign of Christ!

    These are different times, not the same!

  • Mark, so what did Jesus tell her, after they walked away one by one, John 8:11.

  • @STL: YW I hide not my sins, do you? 😉

    @Ron: Did she obey his command? Do you?

    P.S. You Ron claim being sinnless, but are you?

    PROVE YOUR HOLY CLAIM? And I will challenge you :mrgreen:

  • MRH: Thank you again for your honesty about being a sinner and asking for daily forgiveness from Jesus Christ.

    The only person I thought was SINLESS was Jesus Christ.

    But since Ron believes he’s SINLESS, maybe he’s Jesus Christ? LOL

    I know Satan also believes he’s SINLESS too? LOL

  • MRH: You also need to callenge Dan, he thinks he’s sinless too!

  • MRH: When speaking with Dan, watch out for those F and S words?

  • Putin is a leader, Obama is a tweeter.

  • “MRH: You also need to callenge Dan, he thinks he’s sinless too!”

    @Pastor S. T. LaRue: Dan doesn’t seem to communicate with me anymore. I think I might have scared him off with my wild offerings? 🙁

  • MRH: You might be crazy sometimes, but you do relized your a sinner you need to Asked Jesus for Forgiveness of those daily Trespsses of sins!

  • Mark, yes, I do obey Him! And Yes the woman did obey Him! If history is correct she was Mary Magdalene, and was one as close to him as the Apostles were. I’m not saying I’m perfect, no one is, we all make mistakes, we all have weaknesses. No, I don’t think drinking a Sam Adams is going to send you to hell. But if you willfully get drunk on it, then it will cause you to sin, and becomes sin, indeed. The wages of sin are death, every time we sin, it pulls us away from God, which is Life. That’s the purpose of His blood, to cleanse us from our sin. It’s our duty not to mar our clean garments again. But if we do, we still have Jesus to forgive us, and to try again. If we continue in sin without a fight to resist it, then we become the workers of iniquity. God knows and tries the reign of the heart. He is a just and righteous God. A God of mercy to those that are merciful. We have no right, what so ever, to judge another in this life. Christ died for all.

  • “No, I don’t think drinking a Sam Adams is going to send you to hell. But if you willfully get drunk on it, then it will cause you to sin, and becomes sin, indeed.”

    @STL: Asking forgiveness gets to be rather redundant 🙁

    @Ron: Sin has so many variables 🙁 Anyway, with booze I try to not get drunk (don’t like the feeling), and always eat to fully sober up for bedtime. The biggest problem with booze for me is health aspect. But then the same with diet and exercise. I’m lazy (I don’t exercise), and poor hygiene (I don’t shower, change clothes), and my apartment is a mess (I rarely clean house). My diet is strange, not all healthy stuff. All sins in your sin book?

  • Mark, I don’t think getting drunk is the issue, by what getting drunk does to you, can make it an issue. God doesn’t want you drunk, you are no good to Him that way. Neither are you to anyone else. So by getting drunk there is no way to please God. Sins of iniquities are what God is concerned with, fornication, adultery, coveting, lying, murder, stealing or anything of defiling the flesh, and that might include, drinking to much. But these are some of the major sins, And even more sinful are the abominations, immoral sex, worship of other gods, witchcraft. God will forgive, but they can not continued to be practiced by the aspiring Christian. We are not to sin, and flee from it, Christ gave us power to do that, but sometimes we fail in the temptation of the battle over it. It’s when we refuse to fight and give in to that sin, we are in trouble with God. Failing the battle will cause one to lose the blessings of overcoming and not receive the blessing of God, such as understanding, health, meeting of the need in all aspects of life, spiritual, physical, mental, and blessing for loved ones, and the answer to our prayers. The little sins you spoke of are little and we need to ask for forgiveness for those daily. But God can deal with those that not much of a problem. It is the major sins we must avoid. Even though any sin can hinder from receiving God’s best for you. If we are careful not to judge one another and be understanding, then God’s mercy will reign in our lives, even as it did for David.

  • @Ron: But Ron, I don’t get drunk drunk. I just happen to like beer and wine flavor, and mild intoxication effect. If I wanted to get drunk drunk I’d just swig hard liquor till I passed out, which is plain stupid. Like I said, the main issue is long term health aspect. And I’ve gone off the wagon at times (3 year stint was longest), but got pulled back in by varied factors (social pressure). Also whenever I’d quit booze I’d switch to mega sweets, which suggests the problem is really a sugar addiction. Only difference is that booze is worse health-wise, though sugar can lead to diabetes as well. So truthfully neither is good, though sweets are socially acceptable. Also other health concerns are with diet; fats, carbs, salt, and additives. And it’s a constant battle, as I’m intolerant of certain FDA approved toxins; MSG, Aspartame, etc. And the food industry hides such chemicals behind elusive terminologies. Anyway, it’s sin on my part if I know foodstuff is bad, and if I eat or drink such toxins I pay immediate health consequences. Do you yet get my point here?

  • MRH: My father was a Jewish Rabbi, that had many problems drinking too much booze and that was his diet, with no exercise except driving down to the pub, that I built for him, at my cost, never got a thank you, but I grew up respecting my parents. I believe he had alot of problems with WW2 PTSD and being a POW for 3 years cause his drinking habit. I never once asked him to stop, as I had too much respect for him. And I also learned the bad feelings of PTSD in the Vietnam War.

    So again all I can says I have a big mouth and I should mind my own business, and its between you and God, I’m out of it!

    Please you do not need to display your way of life to me or anyone else, its non of our business, except on FACEBOOK, everybody garbage is on it!

    And Ron Murphy because we can not judge Mark’s business, we need to make sure we do not have any unfinished business ourselves, which is completely impossible to fixed! Remember we are saved through Salvation, but we continue sinning every day, it only take 1 minutes as it comes out our mouths, we sin again. That why we go to Jesus as our mediator to God, and asked forgiveness of those trespasses or sins.

    Mark: Its your problem dealing with it, much prayer does help?

  • RON MURPHY: My flaw in life not having enough food, I remember those days being homeless and my pride, not allowing myself to beg for money, I would accept day jobs to feed me. I slept in doorway than a flop hotel, than going without food each day. Now my 5 freezers are jammed with frozen beef!

  • @STL: Well you brought up the sin subject with me, not I 🙁

    P.S. If you don’t want my sin spiel, then don’t request it 😉

    Then Ron chose to harp on my initial joke sin confession, bringing complications to the sin conversation 🙁

  • MRH: Ron is right about drinking booze heavy or lightly, I use to be a heavy drinker also down a bottle of Jack daniels every night until I past out. Which part of the glass, the bottom or top part gets you drunk. There is no part of it that is a light drinker. You know what got me to stop drinking period, and yes I was a drunk pastor, only human, but I went to a AA Meeting once, the were saying a prayer they could only mention the guy upstair, couldn’t say GOD! I got so pissed off, I stop drinking that night, never drank one drop of booze, beer or wine since, and Ron knows I have a bad temper? That was in Mat of 1990. But it took many long hours of prayer to God, to keep me off of the booze!


  • @STL: Addictions are a battle yes, but I’m not gambling on a life long career here on planet earth. My sights are set unto future paradise. I just struggle through the long lonely days in my happy hole as best I can. You have a much different situation as you are happily married. I’ve no interest nor desire in marriage nor even relationships.

    P.S. Without my addictive activities I’d go stir crazy 🙁

  • MRH: I glad for you! Being a Hermit is much cheaper. I know that your saved by Salvation! And I know you spend times with Jesus asking forgiveness of your daily sins, and I know each night as I go to Jesus request His forgiveness from Him, I say a prayer for you buddy! To make your heavy life lighter each day! We do not have to agree or disagree but we all we have new bodies in heaven, because my body had it! I’m in so much pain each day with my legs, I’m paying the price going to war, I think Jesus says its my tribulations in life I need to deal with each day!

  • @STL: Thank you for understanding my lonely game brother, and I understand we both think different, and that both have different backgrounds. And that we both know that our future is in paradise, but that we each have our own life tribulations to deal with.

    And I say the same for all other Christians here, no matter our differences of opinion. In the end, all we believers will stand trial before Christ, and will be rewarded as unto our varied works in his cause 😉

  • @Ron Murphy

    I don’t see where I said otherwise.

    I do believe the tribulation is 7 years. The last half of it is referred to as the great tribulation. And I do believe the earth is repopulated in the millennium. It seems like you reiterated what I said?

    Anyhow, I’ll post a post Paul Kidd posted 3 hours ago, in the Part 6 of Revelation page, and it is spot on.


    150 scripture PROVING Pre-Tribulation

    Jesus, Paul, John & Daniel on Rapture!
    By Mike Taylor

    1st Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    I will start with the witness of our Lord and Savior’s apostle to the Gentiles and taught personally by revelation of Jesus Christ glorified. I had been reading in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians this weekend, and was just so swept away with Paul’s testimony towards this Church that he founded in the name of Jesus. There is much controversy about what Paul was speaking of and it’s timing. I will in this sermon address those controversies of factions of the religious community that read, what I feel, is not what Jesus, or Paul, John or Daniel was speaking of when it comes to these last days and the appearing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I get every now and then nay sayers to the concept of the church being removed out of the way, from receiving God’s Divine Wrath upon a sinful world that is in full rebellion to His Law, and the only substitution for redemption of the breaking of God’s Commandments, is in the blood sacrifice of His Only Son, Jesus Christ, which they reject.
    Let us first go to 1st Thessalonians and read what Paul instructed this early church on what was coming, and was not only for their ears, but was written down for our admonition in these last days. 1st Corinthians 10:11
    As is typical for Paul in his letters, he greets them in love in his opening lines to each of the brethren written to. But in reading on down we come to the first hint that Paul was speaking of a coming event that is yet to transpire. In verse 9, he begins his first nugget of a truth that I have always embraced:
    1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
    1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
    Paul is writing to the church members and Revelation had not even been written yet by John. He speaks of wrath?
    You can find many examples of God’s wrath to come, even starting in the Old Testament concerning what is coming: Psalms 110,
    110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
    110:5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
    110:6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
    Paul speaks of it in Hebrews (I believe Paul is the unmentioned author) concerning the wrath of God,
    12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
    12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
    12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
    12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
    Of course, we can get a feel of God’s wrath when we go to Revelation, but this book is not the only place that speaks of God’s wrath, but we get the intensity and fierceness of the idea:
    6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
    6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
    6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
    6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    Understand one thing my reader, the coming time of tribulation is divine judgment on a world devoid of love for one another, and committing untold sinful acts in complete rebellion to God’s Law and authority, and who have whole-hardheartedly rejected the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the only payment for their sinful condition. Do we not understand that God will destroy up to 2/3 of all mankind in natural environmental catastrophes and what only be assigned extraordinary Divine occurrences not known to man in modern times and can only be attributed to Almighty God? Let us guesstimate the carnage that will be inflicted on this world, if all of us were still on this planet and none of us were removed. Right now we are approaching or have eclipsed the 7 billion mark of humanity on this planet. If we somehow envision the destruction of 2/3 of all mankind, that would be 4.69 billion people dying a horrible death leaving a little more than 2 billion people left. God warned that He will punish the inhabitants of the earth.
    Isaiah 26:20
    26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
    26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
    26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. (A clear passage of divine intervention and removal of His people before He slays mankind on earth)
    Oh, I hear the naysayers who say that the last trump in the opening verses are the same trump that the 7th angel blows in Revelation, but fail to understand that Paul was speaking of a last trump associated with the Feast of Trumpets. For a detailed summary of my position on this gross error by some churches today, go to my website and read “Confusion over End-time Events”. In it the conflict over this trumpets will be explained.
    Paul steps it up a bit in the next chapter of 1st Thessalonians chapter 5:
    5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
    5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
    5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
    5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
    5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
    5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    How much more clear can Paul say it? Do you think that the coming of the Lord when He comes to rule on this planet for 1000 years will be proceeded in secret? Do you think He will come when they expect it not? Paul talks of sudden destruction, as woman in child labor will not escape the pain or the delivery of the baby. What fits this scenario, a sudden, without warning snatching away of children of light, to the horror of the children of darkness…OR would it be more plausible for them to be going about business as usual in the very run-up to the Glorious Appearing of Jesus Christ in the clouds of glory with great power (probably proceeded by a great appearance of fire and light, I hypothesize). With almost 5 billion people being consumed, dead bodies all around, animals eating the corpses of those slain, and the carnage of divine retribution, would it be business as usual? Let us examine the signs of His final appearing, shall we? Will it be business as usual? I think you know the answer!
    8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
    8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
    8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
    8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
    ON down,
    8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
    Reading on down the horror that is unleashed by this fourth angel till we get to the fifth angel:
    9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
    9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
    9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
    9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
    More pain and suffering/death when the sixth angel sounds his trumpet:
    9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
    9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
    9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
    Then to the end of the chapter 9, descriptions of a most detailed description of what will befall rebellious mankind. Until, the seventh angel sounds his trumpet to unleash the final assault upon earth to turn them to repentance, but God knows that they will not.
    Does this sound like Jesus coming back to this earth as a thief? Will not men know that they are under divine retribution? Will the world that is present be nearly extinguished of all life from what it was prior to the beginning of the opening of the 1st Seal, as found in Revelation 6:1? Will men be going about business as usual? Men’s hearts will be failing them from fear, over what is coming upon the earth. Luke 21:26.
    Sheer terror will reign supreme. Does this sound like business as usual? Naysayers, ask yourselves, does this sound like as in the time of day of Noah (Matthew 24:37), or does it sound like there is another time period prior to these events that addresses this more realistically and prophetically? Think on that a bit, as I return to Paul addressing the Thessalonians in 2nd Thessalonians.

    After these verses, if we believe that Jesus will forcefully remove His bride according to Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18.
    And if we believe in any other teachings beside the Pre-Trib removal of the church through the Rapture, then let me drop something on you to think about. If during the Great Tribulation all will be required to take the mark of the beast and all who do will be damned according to Scripture, right?
    If you refuse the mark, you will be killed either by ruling beast power, or the followers of this power. If the Post-Millennial view is correct, with all the environmental upheaval, the divine judgments, the loss of life of upward of 2/3 of the entire planet destroyed leaving either the damned or the saved, then when Jesus Christ breaks through the clouds and the saved are transformed into spirit beings and the ones with the mark of the beast are destroyed, my question is: Who will enter the Millennium in their mortal flesh?
    You see the problem? There will be no one left alive, or in mortal flesh that has not been changed to spirit to even populate the Kingdom of God and produce human beings of flesh as expressed in your Bible. The only teaching that makes sense is the coming of the Lord for His church prior to the Tribulation, then the Second Advent of Jesus Christ to set up His Kingdom for a thousand years in that order. God through the Holy Spirit has called a remnant that will believe unto salvation in this age of the dispensation of the church. When Jesus comes back He will come for one final battle of swift judgment and this verse caught my eye and further proves that when He comes back and it opened this sermon:
    Revelation 17:14 “These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.”
    Folks, that is: You and me of the dispensation of grace.

    Here the church at Thessalonica was troubled, as false prophets had entered into their midst and were preaching that the “Day of the Lord” had already happened. I call them “Ancient Preterist” who believed that all things had been fulfilled, and we were just waiting for Jesus to come back, except this church at Thessalonica understood the Day of the Lord, as judgment and wrath, not a sign of joy.
    Paul admonished them:
    1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
    1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
    1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
    1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
    1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
    Paul re-teaches them what he had already told them concerning the coming “Day of the Lord”.
    Why were they fearful? They believed that they had missed the coming of the Lord for His Church and were found wanting and not fit to be removed from the earth and were waiting for the judgment from God, which would mean they missed the greatest event in all of man-kind, next the crucifixion and resurrection of their Lord and ours, Jesus the Messiah. Paul explains:
    2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    Paul explains that this MUST happen first before the Great Day of the Lord, and His judgment upon earth. John reveals in Revelation that this man is revealed by a number:
    13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
    13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
    13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
    This is what Paul spoke of, and what John through the Revelation of Jesus Christ shared with us. He spoke again of this man. Going back to Paul, as he continues in chapter 2 of 2nd Thessalonians,
    2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
    2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
    2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
    2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
    No where in history after this time period has a man stood in the temple and claimed to be a god. Only once in the history of the nation of Israel had a man stood in the temple and claimed to be a god, and it was many centuries before this verse was penned by Paul. What he is telling us, is that prophecy has duality, or will repeat itself in our time, and remember, these verses were written for us in modern end times, not just of the church Paul and John wrote them to. Who was that man who stood in the temple and a fore runner of the modern Abomination who causeth Desolation, as Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15? His name was Antiochus Epiphanies, and he made a statue of Zeus, with his face and put it in the Holy of Holies in the Temple of Jerusalem and proclaimed all must worship it on pain of death. He also sacrificed pigs on the altars of God, which were considered unclean. So this man defiled the temple that led to the Maccabean War and the observance of Hanukkah, or cleansing of the temple. As Jesus prophesied, and as John and Paul revealed, it will happen again.
    Let’s look at verse 7 of this last passage. We, as watchmen on the wall, have hammered this home many, many times. Students, who is “only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.”? If you said the Holy Spirit, you receive an A+, as by interpretation in context, it is the only thing that is holding back Satan the devil, having full sway on this earth and attempting full destruction of mankind, along with receiving worship for himself.
    2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 King James Version (KJV)
    6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
    7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way
    For me, this is a strong argument that the church has been removed out of the way, BEFORE the man of perdition, whose name is 666, is revealed and stands in the temple of God, claiming to be god. Note that Jesus said that He would never leave us or forsake us, Hebrews 13:5, Matthew 28:20, hence He sent His Holy Spirit, as counselor, comforter, and guider of our walk with our Lord and Savior. If God’s Holy Spirit is removed, based on the clear Word of our Lord, who cannot lie, we will be removed as well.
    Daniel chapter 9, and the Abomination that Causeth Desolation
    KJV Daniel 9,
    9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
    9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
    I read where a national organized religion that split apart in the 80s, called the World Wide Church of God, interpreted that passage not to be the Anti-Christ, but the Messiah. Still in existence are pocket organizations who still adhere to this argument, in their attempt to discredit the concept that there will actually be an Anti-Christ, or argue against a 7 year tribulation. They are proponents of post-tribulation second coming and are anticipating, no relishing the idea of being slain in the Tribulation. When I read that explanation, I was aghast. I went to a website of theirs and pulled this text:
    “The most abused verse on the subject of the end times is Daniel 9:27, and it is a linchpin in the Pre-tribulation Rapture theory: ‘Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.’Unlike the Protestants, we believe that “he” in this verse refers to Messiah, not Antichrist, for the main subject of this section is Messiah. Richard Ritenbaugh, Prophecy Watch.

    True, the beginning of the passage deals with Jesus Christ, but He did not cease the sacrifices in the temple. It continue unabated until 70 AD when the Temple was leveled to the ground by Roman soldiers of Tiberius. Then they go onto to say that:
    In Isaiah 28:15, we protestants and “a covenant with death,” say that the Antichrist makes a peace treaty for one week—seven years—with the Jews. But this makes no sense! Why would the Beast “destroy the city [Jerusalem] and the sanctuary” (Daniel 9:26), and “then . . . confirm a covenant . . . for one week”
    In this analogy, they deny the clear implication of Daniel’s 70 week prophecy that was interrupted when Messiah was cut off in year 483 of the prophecy. That leaves the last 7 years that must be completed for Israel to be saved and receive their Messiah. Obviously, they don’t understand the time-line of history, or duality of prophecy. I think anyone, including this minister, is blinded by their ideology of a failed organization that proposed that the second return of Jesus Christ would be in 1972, hence many members of this denomination sold all they had, took no social security, or started living in caves. I recall the cry of “flee in 73” as their mantra. Did it happen? No, much like Harold Camping’s failed prophecy, false prophets are all within the camp of the religious and doomed to their predictions of when or how Jesus will return. Now is Mr. Ritenbaugh a false prophet? I am not singling him out, but it is a mindset of many post tribbers that this promise of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is suspect and that we all are all full of hogwash is rampant in this denomination and others just to be fair.
    Others in this camp, propose that when Jesus comes in the clouds of heaven to receive His church, that we will be changed. Yes, but then they propose that we turn right around or make a sharp U-turn and come right back down to do battle with the enemies of God. They site Zechariah chapter 14, when Jesus’ feet touch the Mount of Olives. I asked one minister I know, “are we going up to just saddle up?” coming with Jesus on horses, dressed in linen, white and clean as Revelation chapter 19 shows? He had no answer. And what about the Marriage Supper of the Lamb? He proposed it was poetic or an allegory….say what?
    Let’s examine scripturally what Daniel was referring to and that a vast majority of theologians that are scripturally sound embrace. I take this from an online website to organize the thought process of examining this passage, which I totally agree with:
    “Here are the Sixty nine (7 + 62) “WEEKS” that have already Happened
    Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be SEVEN WEEKS , and THREESCORE and TWO WEEKS: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

    Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (note the caps of Prince, and prince, my emphasis. Two different “princes”. Prince of Glory, and prince of this world)

    Here is the ONE “WEEK” that Remains
    Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for ONE WEEK : and in the MIDST of the WEEK he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Since God said he would deal with the Jews as a NATION for SEVENTY “WEEKS” and He promised to regather them nationally in the future in preparation for His Coming, then, God plans to deal with the NATION Israel in the future for ONE “WEEK” before He returns. To say that ONE WEEK of Daniel 9:27 has already happened (since God says He will regather Israel as a NATION) is to say there will be 71 WEEKS. To say that the week WILL NOT happen in the future is to say there are less than SEVENTY “WEEKS.”

    Since we already know (from the 69 weeks that HAVE happened) that a “WEEK” is SEVEN YEARS, then, God must have a future dealing with the NATION Israel for SEVEN years.”
    Spot on. Israel is the door to end time prophecy and Jerusalem is the key to that door. The Seventieth Week of Daniel’s prophecy is future and deals with ISRAEL solely for their unbelief and to finish transgressions. Israel will embrace, finally, their Messiah and proclaim, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord” Matthew 23:39. Our Father and our Lord and Savior will purify Israel as silver is refined in the fire. Malachi 3:2. When Jesus spoke in Matthew 24, concerning the Abomination that Causeth Desolation, His message was pointed straight at Israel. I envision that the only ones who will remain when Jesus returns for divine judgment and take possession of His creation by the sword of His mouth, by speaking only the Words. He will destroy all rebellion, which by my belief will be mostly Gentiles, because the only ones who will listen to the 144,000 Evangelist from the 12 tribes of Israel, will be of the nation of Israel proper, or those scattered over the earth. How many will be blinded to the truth and take the mark of the Beast is conjecture on my part, but is is prophesied that God will send them a lie, 2nd Thessalonians,
    2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
    2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
    Note that if you are still here, then God will send you a strong delusion, A LIE, that you will believe because you want to. Your mind will have no protection, as the Holy Spirit is GONE, VANISHED, right along with His Church. Satan will have full sway, full unimpeded powers to deceive the human mind. Each of those left will embrace the false god of this world, known as the Anti-Christ, no matter what another religion might feed you. So as a watchman on the wall, I have given you witness of four of the major figures in your bible, John, Paul, Daniel, and the Master, Jesus our Messiah. I report, you decide. Understand, that I am not preaching to scare you, but to warn you. There is coming a day when salvation will be mostly for the Jewish people, as the Church Age has suddenly ended for you, and you have been caught flat footed. You were not ready, and Jesus has come, as He said He would. Won’t you make yourself ready. Wanna know how? Email me after reading John 3:16 then all of the Gospel of John, just who this man Jesus was, and IS….the great I AM, that I AM…Jehovah God. Repent for today is the day of salvation.
    The Rapture and the Timing of the Two Witnesses
    By Paul Kocourek
    More proof that the Rapture is Pre-Trib is hidden in the timing of the Two Witnesses. The evidence for this becomes clear as we investigate the question of when the Two Witnesses’ ministry begins during the first half of the Tribulation, or during the second.
    Students of Bible prophecy from the dispensational viewpoint understand there is a Tribulation period of 7 years prior to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. During this time, God and Satan vie for the souls of men. Satan introduces his infamous 666 mark that all men must accept to worship him, or die by beheading. God, on the other hand, extends a last-minute opportunity for men to receive forgiveness for their sins through faith in Jesus Christ. One of the things taught in Revelation is that God uses Two Witnesses to preach Jesus Christ. The question before us is: When will the time of the Two Witnesses’ ministry occur within the Trib period’s 7 years? The answer to this question also helps demonstrate why the Rapture is Pre-Trib.
    The 7-year Trib period comes from the prophecy of the 70 weeks in Daniel chapter 9, where each “week” is a time period of 7 years. The Tribulation period is the last, or 70th, “Week” of that prophecy. This prophetic week is divided into two halves, each 3½ years long. (Daniel 9:27) It needs further to be said that those years are not our familiar calendar years of 365¼ days each, but are actual Jewish lunar years of 360 days each, where each month is exactly 30 days each. That being said, each half of the Trib period is 1,260 days long, the same number of days as the ministry of the Two Witnesses:
    “And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” (Revelation 11:3)
    We are further taught just who these Two Witnesses are:
    “These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord.” (Revelation 11:4)
    This corresponds to an Old Testament prophecy given to Israel through an angel of the Lord in Zechariah chapter 4. First the prophet sees a vision in verses 3-4, and some verses later asks the angel to explain what he was seeing:
    “And I answered the second time and said to him, ‘What are the two olive branches which are beside the two golden pipes, which empty the golden oil from themselves?’ So he answered me, saying, ‘Do you not know what these are?’ And I said, ‘No, my lord.’ Then he said, ‘These are the two anointed ones who are standing by the Lord of the whole earth.’” (Zechariah 4:12-14)
    The verse in Revelation 11:4 ties the two Scripture passages together, so that when the Tribulation period is underway, the descendants of Israel who see the Two Witnesses will understand from the book of Revelation that the Two Witnesses are the anointed ones Zechariah foretold would be coming.
    Now concerning the number of 1,260 days, I do not believe the sameness of half the Trib period and the ministry time span of the Two Witnesses is a coincidence. Some students of Bible prophecy think the Two Witnesses’ 1,260 days of ministry is aligned with the first half of the Trib period, while others believe it aligns with the second half. This latter view is primarily due to Revelation 11:3-13 (which is the entire story of the Two Witnesses) being found between Revelation 9:13-21, which describes the “second woe” (i.e., the sixth angel trumpet judgment), and Revelation 11:14-19, which describes the “third woe” (i.e., the seventh angel trumpet judgment).
    However, some careful thought will show that the 1,260 days of the Two Witnesses’ ministry cannot be located, time-wise, in the second half of the Trib period.
    First, consider the nature of exactitude with God’s numbers. When He says 1,260 days, He doesn’t mean 1,261 days or 1,259 days. When dealing with these Tribulation time figures, we will find them expressed differently in Scripture, but all are exactly equivalent. There’s “a time, times and half a time” (Daniel 7:25), which is repeated in Revelation 12:14 and also defined for us in Revelation 12:6:
    “Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred sixty days.” (Revelation 12:6)
    “But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.” (Revelation 12:14)
    From this we know “a time, times and half a time” = 1,260 days. Likewise, the time of the reign of the Antichrist is given in Daniel 7:25 as “a time, times and half a time,” and is repeated in Revelation 13:5 as “42 months.”
    “He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times and half a time.” (Daniel 7:25)
    “There was given him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.” (Revelation 13:5)
    By this we know that the Antichrist’s reign in Revelation 13:5 (i.e., 42 months) is exactly 1,260 days, not a day more nor a day less. In Daniel 9:27, from which (as we have already seen) we derive the 7-year length of the Trib period, we find the Antichrist committing the Abomination of Desolation. The Abomination of Desolation is an act of sacrilege in which he enters the temple of God and puts a stop to Jewish worship sacrifices, and demands to be worshipped as God himself:
    “Who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.” (2 Thessalonians 2:4)
    We know from Daniel that this event occurs in the exact center of the Trib period’s 7 years:
    “…but in the middle of the week [i.e., 1 prophetic week = 7 Jewish lunar years] he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering, and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate…” (Daniel 9:27b)
    The Abomination of Desolation makes the temple of God “desolate.” Please carefully note that Antichrist will continue his reign until he is destroyed:
    “…even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.” (Daniel 9:27c)
    This can only mean that Antichrist, whom we have seen reigns for 42 months, is destroyed according to God’s decree, at the 1,260th day of his reign, not one day more or less. This destruction of the Antichrist is revealed in Revelation chapter 19 at the Second Coming. There, the Antichrist and his associate in evil, the False Prophet, are dealt with in finality:
    “…these two were thrown alive in the lake of fire…” (Revelation 19:20b)
    Now, you might say, “Okay, so the Antichrist is destroyed after reigning exactly 1,260 days. So what’s that got to do with the time of the ministry of the Two Witnesses?” I’m glad you asked. In Revelation 11, after revealing the effects and nature of the Two Witnesses’ ministry, it records for us:
    “When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.” (Revelation 11:7)
    We are further told the Two Witnesses’ bodies will lie in the streets of Jerusalem for “three and a half days.” (Revelation 11:9b) Revelation goes on to say:
    “But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them.” (Revelation 11:11)
    For argument’s sake, let’s assume the ministry of the Two Witnesses really is aligned with the second half of the Tribulation. Follow with me the following time sequence based on that assumption:
    At the Tribulation period’s midpoint, the Antichrist commits the Abomination of Desolation. (Daniel 9:27) That same day, the ministry of the Two Witnesses begins, and they minister for the ordained 1,260 days, which is also the length of the Antichrist’s reign. Then, on the final day of the Antichrist’s reign, he kills the Two Witnesses. But! Jesus comes back right then also and has the Antichrist and False Prophet thrown into the Lake of Fire. Despite this world-shaking event of the Second Coming, the world nonetheless watches the bodies of the Two Witnesses for 3½ more days, even while Jesus is judging the nations (Matthew 25:31-46) and setting up His kingdom. Still following that time sequence, after those 3½ extra days, the bodies rise to life again and there’s a great earthquake. (Revelation 11:13) Then the third woe occurs (Revelation 11:14), meaning the next angel, the one with the seventh trumpet, blows his horn. (Revelation 11:15-19) And that’s not even counting the seven Bowls of Wrath that additionally follow after the Seventh Trumpet.
    All this happening 3½ days AFTER the Second Coming?
    Does anybody besides me see a problem with this?
    It is simply a fact that the seven Seals, seven Trumpets and seven Bowls all are completed BEFORE the Second Coming. The time of the Two Witnesses’ ministry CANNOT be in the second half of the Trib period. Even if we allow that the Revelation passage of the Two Witnesses is isolated, time-wise, from the progression of the sixth and seventh Trumpets (which, in fact, it is), we still can’t have the time of their ministry in the second half. The world rejoices and gloats over the death of these two men of God and gives gifts to one another in a satanic celebration during those 3½ days (Revelation 11:9-10), something that would have to be happening while Jesus has already returned to Earth. Does anyone seriously expect that Jesus, then returned to Earth in His power and glory as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, would ALLOW that? I don’t think so!
    May I suggest a simpler explanation that does not cause impossible conflicts like those shown above?
    In Revelation 9, John is describing a time point in the progression of the 21 Judgments where those judgments are well past the middle point of the Trib’s 7 years. In the next chapter John is told, “You must prophesy again concerning peoples and nations and tongues and kings.” (Revelation 10:11b) This means that the “clock” of the Trib period is being reset back to the Trib period’s beginning to describe what follows next.
    John then describes in Revelation 11:1-2 the temple of God. This HAS to be in existence in the first half of the Trib period in order for the Antichrist to enter the temple to commit his Abomination of Desolation at the midpoint of the Trib. This is proof that the time sequence of Revelation 11:1-13 is in the first half, meaning both the temple and the Two Witnesses are present when the Trib starts. To me this also implies that the temple has to be already fully built when the Trib period starts, for the instruction in Revelation 11:1 says, “Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, ‘Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it.’” You can’t hand a measuring rod to someone to measure something that isn’t built yet. The instruction implies he is being ordered to measure a completed item, not something under construction.
    As Revelation 11 moves along, John signals that the Revelation 10:11 “reset” (back to the beginning of the Trib period) has ended, and the countdown of the 21 Judgments has resumed. He does this by saying:
    “The second woe is past; behold, the third woe is coming quickly.” (Revelation 11:14)
    When the first day of the 7-year Trib period (i.e., Daniel’s 70th week, Daniel 9:27) begins, it is then that the Two Witnesses appear; their ministry begins on Day 1 of the Trib period, and ends on Day 1,260, when the Antichrist commits the Abomination of Desolation and goes out to murder them.
    Now, when you see the impossibility of the time of the Two Witnesses’ ministry being in the second half, thus requiring that it be in the first half, you can see the evidence for the Rapture showing clearly as Pre-Trib. Think about it for a moment. The Church of Jesus Christ is commanded to be Jesus’ witnesses. (Acts 1:8) Why would God put into operation these two spectacular witnesses to bear witness of Jesus Christ, if the Church were still on Earth to do that job as it has for the past 2,000 years?
    However, with the Pre-Trib Rapture happening, billions of people will suddenly have no one to tell them about Jesus. The Christians will all be gone. However, with the time of the Two Witnesses’ ministry beginning on Day 1 of the Trib, people will be hearing about Jesus despite the disappearance of Christians in the Rapture. I believe it is the ministry of the Two Witnesses that brings to faith the 144,000 male Jews of Revelation 7:1-8. These Jewish men finally believe in Jesus, and realize that the time is short, and while the Two Witnesses minister to Israel, the 144,000 spread out over all the Gentile nations to share Jesus Christ. Someone has compared it to 144,000 Apostle Paul’s let loose on the world at once!
    This, too, is an evidence that the Rapture is Pre-Trib. As said earlier, Jesus gave to His Church the job of being witnesses to Him. (Acts 1:8) Why would God now use two Jewish witnesses doing the miracles of Moses and Elijah, and 144,000 Jewish men to share the gospel, unless it were necessary because the Church is no longer on Earth to do the job?
    The result of the ministry of the 144,000 is a great number of saved souls “…which no one can count out, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues…” (Revelation 7:9b) They cry out, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne and to the Lamb.” (Revelation 7:10b)
    In conclusion, the Two Witnesses begins on Day 1 of the Tribulation period. They win the 144,000 to Christ, who then go out in the world to win uncountable numbers of souls. The Two Witnesses continue their own ministry in Israel, performing the miracles of Moses and Elijah (i.e., turning water to blood, etc.). (Revelation 11:5-6)
    During the Tribulation, the sons of Israel will be seeing, with their own eyes, the Two Witnesses performing the miracles of Moses and Elijah, and will be hearing, with their own ears, the testimony of those two authorities, representing the Law and the Prophets, preaching Jesus Christ.
    At the end of their ministry, on Day 1,260, the Antichrist goes into the temple of God and commits the Abomination of Desolation. Then the words of Jesus become terribly clear:
    “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.” (Matthew 24:15-16)
    The Antichrist slays the Two Witnesses, and the Trib period now begins its second half. The Antichrist then goes after God’s people in a massive persecution that will permit no worship except to him. It says in Scripture of this time (i.e., the second half of the Trib):
    “I kept looking, and that horn [i.e., Antichrist] was waging war with the saints and overpowering them.” (Daniel 7:21)
    “…and they will be given into his hand for a time, times and half a time.” (Daniel 7:25b)
    “There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.” (Revelation 13:5)
    “It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.” (Revelation 13:7)
    His reign is supreme during the second half. With the committing of the Abomination of Desolation, he proceeds forth to force people to submit to him, via the infamous 666 mark, or be beheaded. (Revelation 13:15; Revelation 20:4)
    As a last thought, it is also this supreme reign of his during the second half that shows why all of the evangelism must take place in the Trib period’s first half, both that of the Two Witnesses and that of the 144,000 Israelites. Therefore, the time of the Two Witnesses can be none other than during the first half of the Tribulation period, with the Rapture preceding it.
    ****First of all, note that these twenty-four elders who represent the Church are seen by the Apostle John in heaven, not on the earth, sitting on thrones, wearing crowns on their heads, and clothed in white raiment, all of which is proof that they have been resurrected, translated and rewarded. It is completely incongruous to conceive of a disembodied spirit crowned and rewarded apart from the resurrection and the rapture. We conclude therefore that the rapture has already taken place.
    Secondly, note that in chapter five these elders watch with great interest as the Lamb of God takes the sealed book of divine judgment from the hand of the One who sits on the central throne. To close the chapter John sees them singing a song of their own redemption and adoring the Lamb as the One who alone has the right to hold the book.
    Thirdly, note that all of these events take place before a single seal of the book of Judgment is broken, before a single trumpet of judgment is sounded and before a single bowl of divine wrath is poured out on the earth. Hence chronologically chapters four and five of Revelation take place before any of the terrible Judgments described in chapters six to nineteen are poured out on the earth. Logically this is imperative. Chapters four and five constitute an introductory vision to the events which are about to happen. Chapter four concerns the setting up of a special throne of judgment for the tribulation and chapter five describes the little book and its seven seals. The breaking of the first seal ushers in the first Judgment. Logically then the events of these two chapters must precede the great tribulation and its scenes of judgment because it is from the things here pictured that these Judgments proceed.
    Now, regardless of what you do with chapters six through nineteen these arguments prove a pretribulational rapture. As McClain has so ably put it,
    Now regardless of the chronological interpretation you may make of the Judgments of Revelation 6 to19; whether you adopt some recapitulation or overlapping scheme; shuffle the seals and trumpets and vials as you will; you cannot push chapters 4 and 5 into the picture which follows in chapters 6 to19. There is no judgment until the first seal is broken; the first seal is not broken until the Lamb receives the Sealed Book; the Lamb does not take the Book until the 24 are in heaven, sitting on thrones and with crowns on their heads. If the scene in heaven described in chapters 4 and 5 does not precede the Judgments of 6 to19, then no man can make any sense whatever out of the order of things in the last book of the Bible. And we may as well complain with Martin Luther, “Even if it were a blessed thing to believe what is in it, no man knows what that is.”(18)
    And so we have in this beautiful symbol a clear reference to the Church which has been raptured prior to the tribulation. Whereas we are certain that this treatise will not convince everyone of the truths which we have presented, may this paper serve as a source of blessing to those who love this truth. “Even so, come Lord Jesus.”****

    • carol

      WOW D N–By Mike Taylor. I believe what was written in your post very awaesome . Spot on Thank You for Sharing that. I Believe in the PRE-TRIB RAPTURE TOO. ITS EXCITING TIMES FOR BELIEVERS IN JESUS HE WILL DO GREAT THINGS ALL WILL SEE HIS GREATNESS.WOW PRAISE THE LORD. 🙂

  • MRH: When I was preaching the gospels. In Rescue Missions in the USA for 25 years, I met some strange people, but also I met alot of unrighteous ones, that were just as I was before I accepted Salvation from Jesus Christ. Many had their difficulties with drugs and/ or alcohol. mind was PTSD. But they came sober or not stoned to the nightly meetings, I had to brake alot of rules for some, because I knew God did not want me to shoved them out in the cold nights, and then I went out each night supplying blankets and hot coffee for those that love ones the Lord Jesus, but their additions control their progress in dumping the additions, so I provided love and warmth on cold nights and a message from the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Jesus took me to alot of strange places that were very dangereous, but with Psalms 91, I was always protected by Jesus Christ and his angels.

    Its not like waiting at church, until these homeless people walk into the doors of the Shelters looking for Jesus Christ, I had to go out and personally delivered the gospels to the street people. Most people can not even imagzine going out finding Jesus lost ones, or putting ones life in danger, to find these lost sheep? They all come from different walks of life, as a preacher or witnesser’s for Jesus Christ, we personally need to saved these lost sheep of His, just as He did in His 3 years of ministery. But the American People have drop the ball and got lazy and refuse to do Jesus working saving His lost Sheep. But we still have a few preachers that are delivering the Gospels in China and India and Africa. So I believe alot of people who believe their God’s people, when the time comes for our deliverence to heaven, will be left behind, wondering “why me?” Because as they had the choice to delivered the Gospels of Jesus Christ, they were too lazy to deliver these Gospels to Jesus lost sheep? And they will pay the price of not going to heaven, when the call of the trumpet blasts sounds for them, because their ears will be deaf!

    There is no shortage of cult religions delivering false doctrines of Satan’s message to Jesus Christ lost sheep.

    So Mark I understand, exactly how you feel and how your dealing with your additions, because I walked in your shoes for 25 years. Just my sandals just wore out, and I’m stuck behind this computer screen from my disabilities.

    But I’ll pray for you each night, as I request forgiveness from my lack of ambition to continue the walk of finding Jesus Christ lost sheep and my own sins of deliverance.

  • But the American People have drop the ball and got lazy and refuse to do Jesus working saving His lost Sheep. But we still have a few preachers that are delivering the Gospels in China and India and Africa. So I believe alot of people who believe their God’s people, when the time comes for our deliverence to heaven, will be left behind, wondering “why me?

    @STL: I appreciate your missionary story, but please remember that our salvation is not dependent on our good works but rather our faith. Our future rewards in heaven are determined by our earthly works, and it’s the quality not the quantity that matters the most 😉

    Also I’m sure there a plenty of decent evangelists in America. In fact the leader of our home fellowship does local evangelist work and teaching of the bible in varied venues. He goes door to door seeking hopefuls, and his wife helps him. So don’t knock it till you know the full score 😉

    P.S. Witnessing the gospel message is a work.. yes 😉

  • D N, only people today call it 7 years of tribulation , no where in the Bible does it call it that. The 1st 3 1/2 years brings peace and safety, the beginnings of Jacobs troubles. Cyprus and Israel are close allies, when they defeat the antichrist in the sea battle, he will come back to Jerusalem with his armies and cause the abomination that makes Jerusalem a wilderness. Then it’s on for the saints of God. Then persecution begins all over the world, for they will all worship him and seek to destroy those that speak against him. Dan 11:30-31, Rev 13:4,7-8.

  • carol

    Well when its time for Judgement –Putin will ask why he’s not getting into HEAVEN and When GOD ALMIGHTY SAYS– NO– YOU CAN’T COME IN then when Putin starts going into the FLAMES OF FIRE HELL he will SAY NOOOOOOOO Please NOOOOOOO its too late for him and all EVIL. AMEN

  • carol

    Putin is Arrogant bowing with his hands out and thinking he is HOT STUFF God has the hooks in his NOSE and is pulling him in – Well GOD ALMIGHTY IS IN CHARGE and PUTIN will be on HIS knees before the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. He will be HOT STUFF THEN.AMEN


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