NTEB Debates The Pretribulation Rapture On Jesse Lee Peterson Radio Show

Preacher Geoffrey Grider of Now The End Begins in Florida versus Pastor Martin Bledsoe of Babylon Forsaken Ministries in Kentucky. What is the rapture? Will we be physically taken...

Standing in the old paths for bible truth and doctrine

We accepted an offer from LA based Jesse Lee Peterson to come on his very popular radio program this morning and debate the timing of the Rapture of the Church of Jesus Christ. What ensued was a no-holds barred battle to defend the faith once delivered to the saints via a crash course in “rightly dividing”.



We invite you to click on the image above and enjoy this recording! Round #2 has already been scheduled for Monday June 30th, starting at 10:00am est. Mark your calendars, you are not going to want to miss it!

TWO GUESTS: Preacher Geoffrey Grider of Now The End Begins in Florida versus Pastor Martin Bledsoe of Babylon Forsaken Ministries in Kentucky. What is the rapture? Will we be physically taken up? Will Christians be raptured before the Tribulation or at the end? Is the whole Bible for us?



NTEB is run by end times author and editor-in-chief Geoffrey Grider. Geoffrey runs a successful web design company, and is a full-time minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. In addition to running NOW THE END BEGINS, he has a dynamic street preaching outreach and tract ministry team in Saint Augustine, FL.

  • tommy

    il say this no man knows the secret behind this rapture thing but ME.you can GUESS this idea HE wont revile unless you pray and if you don’t pray you’ll GUESS about it for a thousand years and never figure it out on your own,your ego and pride he hates and the reason why.trying to figure he doesn’t like either has your cutting him out of the picture,but after he reviled it to me it was easy,sometime thinking to much is damning and this is the idea he plays if you want to know ask and it will be revile and your eyes opened to the simplicity of the plan,this rapture is for the living not the dead.once your dead the rapture want help.

  • I have no issue with a catching away, a the dead in Christ rise first, but THERE IS NO PRETRIB RAPTURE. For those who know their scripture….End of story.

    • jkittyc

      There is no yo-yo effect. When Christ comes back WITH the saints, we are with Him. You can’t go somewhere WITH someone if you are not with them when they leave to go somewhere. That IS the story.

    • Elvin

      @david joseph m, seems you are in the wrong track and the wrong path. Think when God burnt Sodoma & Ghomorrah, but He saves LOT & his family, also in days of Noah, He let Noah & his family board on ark before the grta flood.Did you see the picture on it? That will be the same when the tribulation will takes place.

      • Noah and Lot both remained in the world. They were not taken out of the world. These were two separate instructions that are related to the end of days. First, God is going to tell His people “Come My people, enter into your rooms and close your doors behind you; hide for a little while until the indignation runs its course.” (Isaiah 26:20) This represents Noah who was told to enter the ark and close the doors. Later the Lord is going to say, “Come out of her My people.” (Revelation 18:4) This is a physical removal just like Lot. He left for another place (no rapture here) before the Lord destroyed Sodom. Both were protected by God, both remained on earth.

    • Answer the question for me please:

      Does the Great Tribulation contain the wrath of God being poured out upon the earth? (Rev 14:10 KJV)

      • tommy

        james the events of the trubualtion are unknown with the horseman and the plauges they unleached,but personally it think it will start muslim envasion of the promise land that was foretold to Abraham here at home and with NWO and the occupier of the white house on a quest to eliminate these so called Christian which fight and argue like you see on some posting.remember Christ told his follower”i go to make a place for you,that where I am there shall you been also.so where is this place?if you want to know reply and so will i.

      • Michael

        The Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God are two separate events. The Great Tribulation is that which is incurred by the elect of God by the spirit of antiChrist, and the wrath of God is upon those who have persecuted the saints.

  • Engineer

    This information came in from a person in the know of what’s about to happen soon. He goes by the name of Tranferser. He wants to share this with everyone. It is also backed by a youtube video by Tom Lupshu.
    Let’s pray to God for wisdom in understading these end times we live in.

    (Message From Transferser)
    Hey everybody.

    Wanted to stop in real quick and share some news I received today after meeting up with some people. But this was from one individual.

    Now, there is a plot going on right now in the United States.

    This person is high up on the food chain, and so are the other people I was at the meeting with. And this was all off the record. But either way. There’s a serious plot going down right now in the United States. And it’s all gonna be set up on this ISIS thing, over there, in Iraq.

    It’s basically gonna give us reason to strike. Which they’re already gonna do that anyway. But the point is, here’s the news that was related to me. What they’re gonna do, is they’re gonna do a systematic attack on our trucking system, that’s coming in out of the harbors. All the freight. This is gonna be a systematic attack on semi trucks, while they’re on the interstate highway system.

    They have set up massive explosives. These are gonna be detonated. And what’s gonna happen is it’s gonna shut down commerce in the United States. It’s gonna shut down the trucking system because DHS is gonna take over and nothing’s gonna move.

    Obama’s gonna declare martial law. And because there’s gonna be no commerce, nothing coming in or moving, eventually you’re gonna have food riots in the supermarkets.

    I’m urging all of you to prepare. Put away food, water, any other supplies that you can go out and get TODAY. Because also, what is coming behind this, is, there’s gonna be a large cyber attack on our electric infrastructure.

    Just to throw some icing on the cake, they have already pre-recorded, like a post-catastrophic “thing” with the President [Presidential address], on TV. For anybody that can generate power at the time. And that’s gonna be to relay information to operatives in the field. It’s gonna have hidden words in there, key words to relay to the operatives in the field, on how to react and what to do.

    So that’s the news I’m getting. So you guys better get out there TODAY, because like I said there’s already a pre-recorded Presidential address, that they’re gonna be running, over and over.

    But it’s gonna start, from what I’m being told, it’s gonna start with a massive attack on the semi trucks here in the United States, the trucking industry. It’s gonna shut down the interstate highway system. They’re gonna declare martial law. And, pretty much after commerce comes to a halt, there’s gonna be food riots all over the place. You’d better go out and get what you can get NOW. You’d better get armed, if you’re not already. And stay at the ready.

    Another thing is, like I say, once the power goes out, that’s it. And this has all been planned. My opinion, I believe this has all been planned, this is all in the works.

    But that’s all I have for now. Share this everywhere.

    • tommy

      yep sounds possible,i thought an EPM event the kill all media and ML would be the next.keep reporting Il keep readn.4 top romin 1.00 getm white you can findm.

  • Tina

    The secret to understanding the rapture is is understanding the the dispensatioal differences between the church (bride) and israeI. Jacobs trouble is for Jews…Revelation from chapter 6:22 is a Jewish book. The rapture closes the church age and the trib opens the kingdom age Times of refreshing)

    • carrierwave

      Yea, you are right about that! That is what is most glaring about Mid-trib and Post-trib. They both deny the “church age” and look at what confusion results? Daniel was told the “one week”; 7 years is for “thy people” Israel. Just like Peter was confused by Paul’s teaching being “hard to be understood”, the Jew/Gentile union in the body of Christ “without the deeds of the law” appears foolish and awkward to the world!

      • Ron Murphy

        Daniel was not aware of the church age, it was a mystery to him, Paul said so, Romans 16:25. There is no proof of the church being raptured before hand. The book of Daniel did not say Jews, but it said the antichrist will war against the saints, Dan 7:21. The Jews will be blinded, until after tribulation, when the Gentiles time of fulfillment is complete, Luke 21:24, Rev 11:2, and Romans 11:25. This is a key, as Jesus plainly spoke of tribulation when the city was trodden under foot, as the tribulation, Luke 21:20, beginning at the abomination of desolation, Matthew 24:15 and 21. This should be understood before progressing deeper into prophecy. I suggest you study it, fervently.

        If the Gentiles tread the city from the time of the abomination of desolation until the end of tribulation it is for 3 1/2 year as described by Rev 11:2, forty two months. Only then will the Jews see, as they accept their Messiah and endure the wrath of God, Rev 9:4. Then the saints of God will be gone in the rapture.

  • carrierwave

    I have ‘discussed’ the pre-trib rapture with many folks over the years and compared it to the other “tribbers” and I still find the pre-trib rapture “king of the hill”. As much as it is being bashed lately, you almost sense a satanic onslot upon the “blessed hope” as a last attempt of the wicked one to destroy any “faith” upon the earth. As times get looking like, “how much worse can it get”, people begin the wonder and think God has forgotten about us. It takes “faith” to rest on the promises of God when things LOOK hopelessly out of control. And I think that is the problem–NO FAITH. Our “faith” is best tested during trials of life. We ask ourselves, “why doesn’t God intervine?” Why does it seem like God always says “no” to our many cries for deliverance? I wrestle with the Lord many nights about things like that. Yet, He said… “in an hour when you think NOT, the Son of Man cometh.” So, I suppose that is where we must ALL arrive first,–when we ALL think NOT. It is going to look as if He never coming. It is precisely then when He comes. So rejoice in the midst of complete doubt, your redemption draweth nigh!

  • Dear Geoffrey Grider

    I am (very) new to your page. I read your newsletters with great interest.

    I feel that it is important for you to know that I (and hopefully thousands of others) totally disagree with your views on almost all the important Bible teachings about the End Times.

    From my point of belief you have swallowed the false teachings (lies) of Antichrist, hook, line and sinker.

    You can disregard this e-mail, but I pray that you don’t do that. That you would rather look up to Heaven and say: “Almighty God Jesus Christ, how is it possible for other Holy Spirit filled (born again) Christians, to understand such important Scriptures completely opposite to what I believe and understand?”

    I suggest the above prayer in love and respect for you as a brother in Christ, because I know how it happens. I was once where you are now and believed the lies of Antichrist. Like you, I have even spread it! (Though I’m not a preacher)

    You know, we as Christians cannot ever appreciate how great our God is. How Almighty, how wise, how powerful, how loving to have died for us on a cross. Our minds and perceptions (abilities) cannot grasp God’s greatness.

    I do not want to compliment the devil! But I tell you, we (most Christians) underestimate him and his wicket cunningness. John in Revelation stood speachless (marveled) at the gates of Babylon. Antichrist is nothing less than a “miracle of deception.” He is the ultimate embodiment of deception. (Even the “elected” must beware)

    This is why it is possible for him to (still) have you in his clutches.

    Please. Would you kindly respond possitively to this (my) “voice in the wilderness” e-mail. I will gladly share the truth with you.

    Jesus bless you
    Johan Brand. (South Africa)

    • Terri

      I would have to disagree with you. I started studying prophecy through my church when I was in 8th grade (1976)and so far about the technology and the mark of the beast is right on target. 1/3 of the Bible is about the second coming of Christ and that is more than the prophecy about his first coming. Christ fulfilled all 109 prophecies of his first coming so why would anyone say the rapture and the 2nd coming is not true? You should order the Las trumpet publiction (just google the website). This paper was originally put out in April of 1980 based ENTIRELY on the prophecy of the 2nd coming. You would be amazed at what it reveals. talks about the economic crisis of the European Union. (just an fyi at the time thie publication was put out the EU only had 8 countries in it and was still forming)talks about Russian and Iran becoming friendly and frankly after the fall of the Soviet Union I wondered how Russia would ever come to power but the Soviet Union is no longer in existence and Russia has come back and is now a country to be worried about. Also it mentions in the end times the 200 million man army coming from the east across the Euphratie River. China has 200 million men in their army, Turkey has stopped the dam that controls the Euphrate’s River but even before that was done the river is down by 6 meters and even if they started up the dam again it would take months before it gets back to its prior level if ever. millions of star fish are dying and no one knows why tht is also part of prophecy that a third of the fish will die. Dolphins are dying in record numbers. They mention as it gets closer to the tribulation catastrophes would increase in number like birth pangs. every year the natural disasters are getting worse and worse and worse, guess how many disasters have been over a billion dollars? Only the wise will understand, Satan is a master of deception who is to say the ones who refuse to believe the Bible about the second coming are not the ones being deceived. Oh yea, the Vatican is attempting to get all religions under one umbrella by trying to convince eveyone the God we worship is the same as allah and the other gods (they are not) who ever would have thought even twenty years ago that the world religions would try to form a one world religion (mentioned in the old and new testament, over 2000 years ago)Look at what the European Union home office looks like. It looks like the tower of Babel. Also stated in the end days every nation would be against Israel. The US cause of the idiotic most asinine president we have EVER had is helping out the Islamic nations that hate us and Israel does not trust us and if they decide to attack Iran it will be without letting us know, they will be making a unilateral decision. Frankly, I cannot see how anyone can dispute these prophetic messages in the Bible. Look at Mathew 24 when Jesus talks about it. It was prophesied Israel would become a nation again and that was said over 2000 years ago. Do you know how rare that is. Israel in fact is the ONLY nation that came back, name the country Israel and also took back the Hebrew language which was obsolete at the time. That right there should tell the everyone that the pre tribulation is correct since NO OTHER nation in the history of the world has ever done that. Also states that Israel would be a millstone around other nations necks. Israel is about the size of New Jersey so why is the world focused on that tiny country. Also they were attacked the day after they were declared a nation. They had no army and only one tank and they have won every single time they have been attacked. I think the first time it was by 12 nations. Let us not forget either that every single disaster we have had is linked to something we forced Israel to do. One or two disasters maybe it could be a coincidence not the 20+ that have happened. Look at Egypt, he supported Morsi even though Morsi and his followers are terrorists and state we all deserve to die and we probably will cause of this asinine leader we have. This email does not flow very well but I just cannot figure out how Christions can discount prophecy if you say it is not true than how can any of the Bible be considered the word of God. Oh yea their are Christians pastors now that do not believe Jesus died on the Cross, yes I have heard them myself when they were interviewed. That is the apostasy the Bible also stated would come about in the last days.

      • Guest

        I had to google the thing about the water being cut off. Wow I didn’t even hear that. The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river, the Euphrates; and its water was dried up, so that the way would be prepared for the kings from the east. Rev 16:12

  • C.A.

    ‘I’m right, you’re wrong.’ In the final analysis, how does that
    further Christianity?

  • Teresa

    Be ready! You must be able to give account of your faith. Look at the Christ followers not in America giving their bodies over in much pain and extreme duress even death to not deny His name. WE in America must be ready to stand and decide to NOT to deny His Holy Name. America does not want to know about sin anymore. Satan and his demons have deceived the nation in believing God is not coming and judgment is against His holy ways. Hence, they say don’t judge me. This is heresy denying the Holiness of the Son Of God Jesus Christ. Riches and wealth and the pleasure of filling the flesh, drugs, booze, porn, illicit sex, child slavery, abortion to name some are ALL around us. People believe God is not coming back to judge this world? Lord Jesus, bless your people to stand and declare your truth as Brother Terri just wrote what is all around us if we have eyes to see and ears to hear.

    • Tracy

      I agree. Jesus is coming at a time when so many are going to be caught off-guard. The Bible says it will happen in a “twinkling of an eye.” Doesn’t that mean watch for Him?
      Also, the Bible says, “as in the days of Noah, (paraphrasing)men will be eating, drinking, marrying, etc.; then the flood came and destroyed them all. Therefore, how do post-tribbers explain this:
      if Christians are here during the Great Tribulation, none will be able to buy or sell at all; therefore, how are we going to be able to keep eating, drinking, marrying, etc. when the ONLY thing on our mind will be survival-not going about business as usual.
      None of us knows exactly how end-times will play out; but, I will stay will the pre-trib rapture. However, in the case I have misunderstood, I will pray to stay strong in my faith, and follow the Lord unto my death.

      • Brenda Murphy

        @ Tracy,

        Hi Tracy,
        Hope you are well.
        The ones that are eating and drinking, and giving in marriage—those are the antichrist’s people–the ones that take the mark–for they are the only ones that can buy and sell and get what they need to survive during that time, opposed to– as the Christians will be having their great tribulation, then.
        That’s why Christ said if you do not deny his name, he will not deny you before God.
        It will be hard not to deny his name when you are hungry, and destitute of your daily needs, especially for your children.

        Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
        Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
        Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

        Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
        Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

        The ‘they’ in this verse, were the people that were caught up in their worldly ways, and not regarding the word of God, as Noah was warning them. Then the floods came upon them, unawares, and took them all away. but–Noah, and his family were prepared, they heeded his warning. His family was not taken ‘out of here’, as they were still here on earth, but were given life, and not death.
        Just as we will be if we do not accept the mark–we will be given life, as our souls will go immediately under the altar of God when we die, to be with Christ forever. We won’t have to worry about the second death-which is the lake of fire.

        • Tracy

          Hi Brenda,
          Hope you are well also.
          All of us, whether Pre, Mid or Post-Tribulation needs to understand that the Great Tribulation is going to be a time like no other. Our finite minds cannot even begin to conceive how horrible this period of time is going to be. Too, even though many thousands of Christians have already given their life for Christ, and will receive the Martyrs Crown, that still doesn’t compare to what is about to take place on this earth- whenever God says “enough.”
          I can’t imagine a non-Christian, who has taken the mark, going about their business knowing that some of their family or friends are living in the so-called FEMA Camps about to be beheaded? Might be, but very difficult to comprehend.
          Many see Matthew 24:29-31, after the tribulation, as the rapture, but others see it as the Second Coming. Two different events. Another verse Rev. 3:10 Because thou hast
          kept the word of my patience, I will keep thee FROM the hour
          of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
          Again Brenda, I don’t have the answers, but hopefully, sometime soon will see you on our way up.

          • Brenda Murphy

            It is so sad to me that people cannot see the truth.
            God gave us fair warning, over and over. It’s our fault if we do not heed it.

            You said, quote-I can’t imagine a non-Christian, who has taken the mark, going about their business knowing that some of their family or friends are living in the so-called FEMA Camps about to be beheaded? Might be, but very difficult to comprehend.-unquote

            This is what God said about that:

            Mar 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
            Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

  • Guest

    What about the 144,000 is that who they are referring to?

    • Brenda Murphy

      No, these are the Jews that are sealed by God at the end of the tribulation period, just before God pours out his wrath. At this time, they will no longer be blinded.

      Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
      Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
      Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
      Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
      Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
      Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
      Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
      Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

  • Guest

    @ Michael aren’t there going to be people who are going to get saved during the tribulation period too though?

  • Guest

    When it says he will make war with the saints it is referring to Christians then?

    • Brenda Murphy


    • Brenda Murphy

      Did God say that, or did you? 😉

    • Once we decide to know truth no matter how long we have held certain beliefs, He will reveal it. Jesus said He was the resurrection and the life. If we truly study the scriptures, we will see that “the dead in Christ shall rise FIRST, THEN we who are ALIVE and remain shall be caught up (rapture)together with them in the clouds.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) Again, we read, “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet,the dead will be raised (first!)…” (1 Corinthians 15:51-52)

      And also, we read that “But each in his own order; Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s At His Coming, Then Comes The End!” (1 Corinthians 15:22-24)

      The scriptures are very clear, the resurrection must take place before any rapture takes place. Those who are alive will never proceed those who are dead. (The dead in Christ will rise First)

      So, whenever the resurrection takes place, that is when those who are alive and remain will be taken (raptured).

      So,when will the resurrection be? The resurrection is “on the Last day.” (Read John 6:39,40,44)

      So,when is the rapture?…”On the last day.”

      “He who endures to the end shall be saved.” (Matthew 10:22 and Matthew 24:13)

  • Romans 11:13
    13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the GENTILES I magnify mine office:

    2 Timothy 2:15
    15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING the word of truth.

    Colossians 1:25
    25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the DISPENSATION of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

    1 Cor 15:51-53
    51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the TRUMPET shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP of GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    Revelation 4:1-2
    4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a TRUMPET talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be HEREAFTER.
    2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

    Jeremiah 30:7
    7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

    6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
    16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    Amos 5:18-20
    18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light.
    19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
    20 Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

    • Brenda Murphy

      What do you do with these verses, Mike? Tell me what it means? 🙂

      Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
      Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
      Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

      • Brenda,

        Remember ? Paul revealed the mystery of 
        the rapture to the church, this is the second 
        coming. By the way, no one mourns in the 
        description of the rapture by Paul and there 
        are no signs ! As in Mat 24:29-

        What do you do with these verses ?

        9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

        1Thess 1:10
        10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

        Why would God expect you to go through the
        great tribulation, then admonish you for it ???

        Amos 5:18-20
        18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light.
        19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
        20 Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

        • Brenda Murphy

          Hey Mike,
          Yes, people do not understand that when Christ comes to take the martyrs home, the ones that died in the great tribulation, then the wrath of God is poured out. Tribulation is different than God’s wrath. Tribulation is satan’s wrath against the saints.

          Then the Lord will come back with those tribulation martyrs, after the wrath of God, to exact his vengeance on those that put those martyrs to death, that is why those martyrs will reign with Christ on earth for the 1000 yrs.
          That is why Christ comes back with the martyrs to destroy the antichrist and the false prophet, to set up his kingdom on the earth for the millennial reign.

          • Brenda Murphy

            Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
            Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
            Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
            Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
            Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
            Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
            Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
            Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
            Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
            Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
            Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

            Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
            Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
            Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
            Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
            Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
            Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

  • Ok so lets just say we’re all still learning, and no one knows the day nor the hour. Not even Jesus himself. However through my studying, it certainly says we go through great tribulation, and come out of great tribulation..before being raptured out of tribulation. We are taken sometime soon after the sixth seal being opened. Read Rev 7:9-17. It says a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the Lamb of God. Now scroll down to verse 13 and 14. Whne asked who these people were, John says to the elder, Sir u know. And the elder says THESE ARE THE ONES WHO COME OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION AND WASHED THEIR ROBES AND MADE THEM WHITE IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB. That is when we are taken. Don’t think the tribulation is the same as Gods wrath, which we are not appointed too. But yes we will endure Great tribulation. But as it states, we come out of it. God will be with us through it all. Keep your heads up and trust in Jesus. Don’t be one who is fallen away when we begin going through tough times and Tribulation. Put on your armor and stand firm. God Bless each and everyone. Peace be with u all.

  • Ron Murphy

    Amen, Lookingup, but many of us will be persecuted to the death, those are the one that see the blessed hope of being with and reigning with Jesus. Most will be killed or starve in tribulation, all that is mentioned in the 4 seal scroll. These come out of tribulation, also, and have washed their robes with the blood of the Lamb.

    Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

    Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

  • Folks, according to the KJV bible (and other versions), there is simply no 7 year tribulation per Daniel 9:27, just a 7 year covenant created, broken midway. The tribulation of saints* noted in the Gospels always follows the abomination of desolation, and is approx. 3.5 years by Daniel and Revelation accounts. *Believers; Jews, Christians.

    However after the tribulation comes the wrath horror unto the world, which is also when the end is; Satan, God. Which is also when the 2nd king/beast reigns; destruction, slavery. And according to 1 Corinthians 15, the end immediately follows the resurrection event.

    Anyway, you all can battle out your varied tribulation/rapture views until the cows come home if you like? But according to the bible, all views are flawed in varied ways. Key biblical points to consider below 😉

    Tribulation is intended for Israel, and is what wakes them up to the truth. Tribulation is a holy war, and is located in the holy land. Tribulation does not involve the mark of the beast. Tribulation is really a major persecution of the Jews, though involves others in Israel as well. Tribulation is not the end of the world, but the precursor unto it.

    Luk 21:8-12 KJV – And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name’s sake.

    Luk 21:20-24 KJV – And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    Luk 21:25-28 KJV – And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

    Hint: End time bible prophecy is vague and limited in scope. Such prophecies only capture a portion of the picture, not the full image. In fact most of history is not even remotely noted in bible prophecy, not even the obvious notorious NWO! Nor are modern nations named, except ancient survivals. And as to the above prophecy, where exactly are we now? Aside from the tribulation and the second coming, all else has occurred or is definitely occurring?

    P.S. Revelation and Daniel are highly symbolic, which needs to be understood, in order to properly understand end time mysteries 🙂

    • Hill61

      Tribulation does involve the mark of the beast, otherwise it wouldn’t be the great tribulation. Then the wrath of God is after that. 🙄

      • “Tribulation does involve the mark of the beast”

        @Hill: No, as the ‘mark’ equals global slavery, and the tribulation is not of such magnitude.

        The tribulation is only 3.5 years, the latter half of week. Scripture doesn’t define things regarding first half, other than that’s when temple covenant is made (peace?). The placing of the abomination of desolation defines when tribulation begins (war?).

        Also according to both Daniel 11 and Revelation 13, there are two different but similar ‘end time’ kings or beasts (ruling figures). Which are the ‘beast’ and ‘false prophet’, which follow in succession (not in tandem). The first king overcomes the saints (tribulation period), followed by resurrection (rapture event). Afterward the second king enslaves the remaining world, and brings destruction upon earth (wrath or end of the world).

        Rev 12:12 KJV – Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

        P.S. The tribulation (2nd woe) is wrath upon the saints only. The wrath (3rd woe) is still a tribulation, but of extreme magnitude 😉

  • CrissCross

    The Secret Pre-Tribulation Rapture Lie Exposed 🙁

    • @CrissCross: The link page also contains false information I’m afraid 🙁

      P.S. The bible is the only reliable root source regarding tribulation and rapture, but unfortunately both topics are not well defined. And thus a prime factor in the divided concepts; pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib. And as well other polluted doctrines (trinity, baptism, salvation, etc), due to lack of clear biblical detail in topics. And I won’t even bother commenting on Revelation, as possibly the most twisted book of the bible, along with many of OT prophets visions.

  • CrissCross


    Secret Rapture theory BUSTED!!!


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