Hollywood Falls In Love With Satanic Religious Cult O.T.O

Jay-Z's clothing line, Rocawear, is shot through with OTO imagery such as the 'all seeing eye' in a triangle, the 'eye of Horus' (an ancient Egyptian symbol frequently referenced...
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Other celebrities linked to OTO include the rapper Jay-Z, who has repeatedly purloined imagery and quotations from Crowley’s work. Whether wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with 'Do what thou wilt' or hiring Rihanna to hold aloft a flaming torch in his music videos (a reference to the Illuminati, an outlawed secret society whose name supposedly derives from Lucifer, or 'light bringer'), he has given the sect priceless publicity.

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6

Aleister Crowley, who was born into an upper-class British family in 1875, styled himself as ‘the Great Beast 666’. He was an unabashed occultist who, prior to his death in 1947, revelled in his infamy as ‘the wickedest man in the world’.

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Whether wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with ‘Do what thou wilt’ or hiring Rihanna to hold aloft a flaming torch in his music videos (a reference to the Illuminati, an outlawed secret society whose name supposedly derives from Lucifer, or ‘light bringer’), he has given the sect priceless publicity. Pictured here with Jay-Z is his wife Beyonce and her latest album cover featuring the satanic goat’s head of baphomet.

His form of worship involved sadomasochistic sex rituals with men and women, spells which he claimed could raise malevolent gods and the use of hard drugs, including opium, cocaine, heroin and mescaline.

RELATED STORY: How Satanism And The Occult Powered Beyonce’s Rise To Stardom

Crowley’s motto — perpetuated by OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis),  — was ‘do what thou wilt’. And it is this individualistic approach that has led to a lasting fascination among artists and celebrities, of whom Peaches is the latest in a long line.

Led Zeppelin’s Jimmy Page, for example, routinely took part in occult magical rituals and was so intrigued by Crowley he bought his former home, Boleskine House, on the shores of Loch Ness in Scotland.

And there are now OTO lodges scattered around the country, practising the same ceremonial rituals and spreading the word of Crowley.

While membership is secret, Peaches is said to have been initiated into it, raising the prospect that many of her impressionable fans could try to do the same.

Indeed, when one of her Twitter followers asked how she could find out more about Thelema, another word for Crowley’s teachings, Peaches directed her to read his books, which she described as ‘super interesting’.

Jay-Z and Beyonce are leading the way

Other celebrities linked to OTO include the rapper Jay-Z, who has repeatedly purloined imagery and quotations from Crowley’s work.

Whether wearing a T-shirt emblazoned with ‘Do what thou wilt’ or hiring Rihanna to hold aloft a flaming torch in his music videos (a reference to the Illuminati, an outlawed secret society whose name supposedly derives from Lucifer, or ‘light bringer’), he has given the sect priceless publicity.

His clothing line, Rocawear, is shot through with OTO imagery such as the ‘all seeing eye’ in a triangle, the ‘eye of Horus’ (an ancient Egyptian symbol frequently referenced in occult texts) and the head of Baphomet (the horned, androgynous idol of Western occultism).

Some conspiracy theorists have seized on this as evidence that he is a member of a secret Masonic movement which they believe permeates the highest levels of business and government. Others take a more pragmatic view: that it is commercial opportunism, cashing in on impressionable teens’ attraction to the ‘edginess’ of occult symbolism.

Yet OTO is much more than a marketing opportunity for attention-seeking celebs. It is a living religion, with adherents still practising occult rituals set out by Crowley in his books.

This week I tracked down John Bonner, 62, the head of OTO in the UK, to his home in East Sussex. He told me: ‘We are not a mass-appeal sort of organisation  — in the UK we number in our hundreds. Worldwide it’s thousands.

Celebrities are not always a boon or a benefit. ‘We are used to being misunderstood. Many stories about Crowley, like people saying he filed his teeth down into fangs, are nonsense.

‘You could call us a sex cult in a way, because we recognise, accept and adore the whole process which goes towards making tangible the previously intangible.’

According to adherents of OTO it takes years of study before you can begin to understand what the religion is about — much like the equally controversial Church of Scientology.

Bonner takes issue with the comparison, saying it is ‘extremely expensive’ to study Scientology, yet  OTO demands no financial contributions.

Given her own dabbling in heroin and casual sex, particularly during a rootless period when she lived in Los Angeles a few years ago, it is perhaps natural that the troubled offspring of Bob Geldof and Paula Yates should be attracted to such a liberal school of thought.

And if Peaches’ own interest is so shallow, heaven knows what her impressionable — and mostly very young — fans will take from it.

A former FBI agent, Ted Gundersen, who investigated Satanic circles in LA, found that Crowley’s teachings about ‘raising demons to do one’s bidding’ suggested human sacrifice, preferably of ‘an intelligent young boy’.

John Bonner is dismissive of any idea that he and his fellow believers would even begin to countenance such excesses, pointing out that his is the only religion that sends people a letter of congratulations when they decide to leave (‘because they are exercising free will, which is what we’re all about’).

But he accepts many people may not be able to deal with Crowley’s complex teachings.

‘You’re not supposed to just jump straight in to it. It takes time and study, but our rituals are not for public consumption. You need to join us and go through the initiation process before you can begin to understand. ‘But according to our beliefs we can’t turn anyone away. So if you are over 18, are passably sane and are free to attend initiations, then you have an undeniable right of membership.’ source – Daily Mail UK

 

 

NTEB is run by end times author and editor-in-chief Geoffrey Grider. Geoffrey runs a successful web design company, and is a full-time minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. In addition to running NOW THE END BEGINS, he has a dynamic street preaching outreach and tract ministry team in Saint Augustine, FL.
  • I wonder how much Satan pays him for his act?

  • Some day they will be in the pits of hell with Satan.

    • so true and Hell so horrible they are fools!

  • How very sad so many have fallen prey to the devil’s trickery. Shows how lost they all are and looking for something to fill an empty heart. If only they had given Yeshua a chance first!

    • Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps they did give “Yeshua” a try and might have foudn him to be bogus? I’m a member of the O.T.O. and I was raised fundamentalist Christian. I gave “Yeshua” 19 and a half years to prove himself and he hasn’t.

      • Maybe you should try Jesus instead!! 🙂 He never fails!!

      • If Yashaya dying on a cross in your place wasn’t enough to prove is love for you than you missed the point altogether. He has given himself as a sacrifice for you, it is your responsibility to forsake this prideful self indulgent world and follow him.

  • The Unbelievers are getting more lost by the day! I wonder when they get to the Lake of Fire, what kind of songs they will be singing, I’ll never find out! There affecting our teenager!

    • Come on baby lite my F I R E !……the Doors ?

      Great balls of F I R E. !………….Jerry Lee Lewis ?

      Ring of F I R E. !…………………Johnny Cash. ?

      !!!!!!…OUCH…!!!!!!! The list goes on Pastor !

      And they will have an eternity to learn the songs !!!!!

      SMOKE ON THE WATER….FIRE IN THE SKY !! DA. DA. DA

      DA DA DA DA DA DA DA. DA. DA, Deep Purple !

  • Their reward will be to serve their master for eternity in the lake of fire. How so deceived they are. They chose wickedness over obeying God.

    • I belive Johnny Cash repented and went back to God and mariied june carter and he stayed with God until his death so it will be for God to judge him!

      • “Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man’s brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed. And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise. And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also. In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife. And Jesus answering said unto them, DO YE NOT THEREFORE ERR, BECAUSE YE KNOW NOT THE SCRIPTURES, NEITHER THE POWER OF GOD? For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven”. (Mark 12:18-25 (KJV))

        To say that we are married in heaven is a lack of understanding of the scriptures for when we rise from the dead, we neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels.

        To say that Johnny Cash repented, went back to heaven, got married, and stayed with God ‘until’ his death makes absolutely NO sense at all.

        If people are going to use scripture, or quote ‘God’ in their statement, I wish they would do it using the scriptures, such as I am going to do here:

        “Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: WHOSE MOUTHS MUST BE STOPPED”, who subvert whole houses, TEACHING THINGS WHICH THEY OUGHT NOT, for filthy lucre’s sake”. (Titus 1:9-11 (KJV))

        Be very cautious, with fear and trembling, when using God’s name or God’s Word!

        • Dan

          She didn’t say it like you posted it. She said she thought he went back to God. Which is the same as saying he rededicated. Which is exactly what Johnny Cash did. June Carter wouldn’t be with him unless he was in the Church. Silvia was not giving Mormon teaching as you assumed. You should probably read the posts before you comment.

          • What was posted was:

            “that Johnny Cash repented, went back to heaven, got married, and stayed with God ‘until’ his death”

            This is what I commented on because it is deceiving! It leads one to believe that there is marriage in Heaven, which there is NOT; and it leads one to believe that once one is back in Heaven that you will stay there until your death! This also is deceiving in the manner it was written. If one is going to post on this or any other site you had better explain yourself because you will be held accountable for your actions and words.

          • Dan

            You know J.M. I do understand that some people are dimwitted but you should read the post first before you quote it wrong again. Sylvia “I belive Johnny Cash repented and went back to God and mariied june carter and he stayed with God until his death so it will be for God to judge him!” Repented and went back to God is rededicating. Stayed with God means he was a practicing Christian. Please stifle yourself.

          • There is no “I believe” about it! Do you believe the Scriptures or not? That is the question! Do you accept the Bible as your ‘final authority’ in all matters of faith and doctrine? If so, then stop interjecting your own beliefs. It’s not a matter of what you or I believe; it’s a matter of what the Bible says, which is our ‘final authority’.

          • I read and interpreted it just as you did Dan.

          • Thankyou Dan that is exactly what i meant! We all can backslide and come back as Jesus is all about Grace i have no idea what JM is talking about i really do not! I meant he Johnny Cash rededicated his life back to God after all the things he did and a white lie to God is a bad as all the other sin We are like fillthy rags to God unless we have Jesus! Thankyou for supporting me GBU Sylvia

    • There is no god. 🙂

      • Prove it!! 🙂

  • I recall seeing crowley on the back cover of the eagles hotel calif. Album that song is about hell.

  • Shame.Society,is so brainwashed,and blind.

    • Yes, too many are brainwashed into Christianity. It really is a shame.

  • So sad that so many people believe this garbage! lol!

    • I agree. It is so sad that many people believe in garbage like the Bible.

      • Oh yes, as apposed to believing everything Hollywood and the media hand you, right?? 🙁

  • Valeria: Hotel California is also about being a drug user!

  • SoCal

    Pastor, if you are referring to the Eagle’s Hotel California, it is about a prison here in California. About an hour from my home in San Diego. My Dad worked there.

  • SoCal

    Anyways, before the hotel was converted to a prison it was a beautiful old Hollywood style hotel. In fact it still is beautiful. Walt Disney even had a premier party there for one of his early movies. It has a beautiful olympic size swimming pool and still has that Hollywood beauty. The song was written while the writer was incarcerated there. It is most defiantly not about hell but probably has references to drugs since it is a rehabilitation center for drug offenders.

  • Does anyone else wonder about the connection with our government letting them go to Cuba? What a mess and the plot thickens.

  • Mike: Great memory’s! Yes! They will be singing those songs in Hell!
    Soon our Lord Jesus will call us up to Him!

    • I was only joking Pastor, I don’t think there will be any

      singing in the lake of fire. More like wailing and nashing

      of teeth. Absolute dread !

    • Pastor i feel not one of can judge whom is going to Hell matthew 5 tells us this and the theif on the Cross is a example how one can repent I pray all Repents and for us to let God be the Jugde of others!

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  • KJV REV 20:10

    And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake

    of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false

    prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night

    for ever and ever.

    Yea, definitely no singing there Pastor. But it looks like

    there going to have a few barbecues !……I hope they

    like everything xtra crispy well done ! Better yet,

    change their mind while they can !

    • Mike: give me your insights? Do you believe Isreal going to attack Iran soon? And do you believe Iran will counterattack Isreal, which in Ezekiel 38 & 39 called the Magog war, before this terrible 7 year Tribulation?

      • Pastor I think Israel will attack Iran, then Isaiah 17

        then Ezekiel 38-39.

    • Do you have ANY reason at all to believe this nonsense?

  • Whether you lead or follow, involvement in this tripe will make it SO MUCH EASIER to separate the wheat from the chaff in the final judgment….

  • Dan

    Take a look at Psalm 83 I think it will take place first. then the signing of the treaty. Then Ezekiel. Just a thought.

  • Gerry

    Their rewards should be pains in full in hell!

  • All done for the LOVE of money….(the root of all EVIL)

    • I joined the O.T.O. because it’s a good group of spiritual seekers – money is not an issue. 🙂

  • Back in the mid 60’s (64 or 6) the rolling stones came out w/an album called ‘my majesty satanic request’ – it’s clear who their god is! Crowley mug appeared also on the beatles album ‘yellow submarine’, it’s very clear of satan’s influence in Hollywood and the music business! When we were young it seemed death was an eternity away, now these groups like the stones, eagles etc & Hollywood actors that are now old death must seem scary! Years ago (yeah, I know) back in the 60’s the beatles had a song titled ‘yesterday’ – the song starts out with ‘yesterday, when I was young’ a lot could be said, other than their was a time (not that long ago) when inspirational songs where our God was glorified in the pop song’s!
    Our Jesus will give us new bodies one day, I don’t care if your just 40 (or more) you’ll (we) will appreciate our glorified bodies when we hear maranath!

  • Gerry
    • Gerry !…I watched the video !….GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ !

      Not much work for the caterers at that wedding ! LOL !

      Their SICK mate ! I wonder when they’ll be opening a

      drive through in the western world, KFC, Islamic style,

      If that’s not demonic, what is ?

  • I have rerad article and all the comments and i do not like article as they are evil but my ? is no one can have anyone in Hell only God can do this and maybe these people need the Pastor to preach to them Go and preach and try to make them listen if they do not Pray for them anyway! I will never Judge another or say whom is going to HELL that is Gods decision!

    • Sylvia, the comments ( JOKE ) is about the ( SONG ) not

      the performer ! Nobody is being judged ! It’s an ongoing

      ( JOKE ) Between me and the Pastor, read the last

      sentence in post 20 before you have an aneurysm !

      • Mike;
        There so many people are so up tight with their feelings, if they are Born Again in Jesus, they should learn to relax, as Jesus is in control of their lives!

        • There is no Jesus and there is no such thing as being “born again”. It’s just a creepy religious ritual to celebrate the ideology of a mad man (Jesus).

          • Jessica (twisted ugly redhead tranny trash) the devil has you firmly in his grip and you are very deluded and are so led astray.

            Maybe if you ask for the truth and seek the truth, then you will see the light and change back into the man that you were supposed to be, the way that GOD CREATED YOU.

            We all pray that you find the truth.

            God bless

    • Sylvia: We do not have to judge them, they are judging themselves by there actions.
      Remember the road to Hell is a super highway and the road to Heaven is a narrow pathway!

      • Yes i know and i agree with you about all of the sin that is going on but a lie is the same in front of God! I just will not say whom will be going to Hell as they could repent! Amercia must be more wicked tham Australia i just read your comment re your wifes facebook it is like Sodom i agree but the Church needs to get out and preach against it as Noah did but no one listened its sad what the world has become! Jesus is in control of my life but i still plant seeds each day and speak with the Gays what else can we do but spread the Gospel as Jesus told Peter when he asked him 3 times did he love him! I have suffered for 32 years loss of a child another having 4 transplants two marriages and that was because i love the Lord and a home and my health and coped beacuse Jesus and i love one another i will die for him! Jesus sat amongst the sinners he hated the sin not the Sinner so we have to be so careful beacuse we may plant that seed and they may change so until he comes i work in his Garden! You sound like a strong Man of God! Go and Preach to them in the cities where they are like John the Baptist did!

      • Proof why, if your god is real, he’s an awful designer.

      • Amen Brother, Amen!!! And few that find it!!

  • hey here in new jersey we have a solution….whack em all!

    • Brian, that’s funny ! Problem sorted !

  • Dan

    You judged by saying you don’t. I always get a kick out of people who call themselves a Christian and say they don’t judge. If we aren’t to judge, why is the bible full of things that God finds offensive?

    If a person rejects Jesus the bible is very clear that they are going to the judgment seat. So are we to judge that we should not warn them? The world is dying and we are so afraid we might offend someone. I don’t care if I offend you if I can get you to understand your lost.

    • Dan:
      There is lately so many people with touchy feelings, if they are truely christian they need to learn to relaxed, as Jesus is in control of them, if not, we do not need to judge them, they already judge themselves!

  • Dan, to whom are you referring ?

  • Yes, we Christians ARE to be ‘judgmental’; it is called ‘righteous judgment’. Otherwise know as ‘discernment’.

    “Therefore thou shalt love the Lord thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway”. (Deut. 11:1 (KJV))

    “For the Lord loveth JUDGMENT, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. The RIGHTEOUS shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever. THE MOUTH OF THE RIGHTEOUS SPEAKETH WISDOM, AND HIS TONGUE TALKETH OF JUDGMENT”. (Psalm 37:28-30 (KJV))

    “Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even THOSE WHO BY REASON OF USE HAVE THEIR SENSES EXERCISED TO DISCERN BOTH GOOD AND EVIL. (Hebrews 5:11-14 (KJV))

    “To discern both good and evil”! THIS IS JUDGMENT! Not convinced?

    “Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to JUDGE thy people, that I may DISCERN between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?” (I Kings 3:9 (KJV))

    “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God”. (Romans 12:2 (KJV))

    “Be ye transformed that ye MAY PROVE what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God”. THIS IS JUDGMENT! It comes by being transformed by the renewing your mind; being born-again. Without such ye cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven!

    If we had a Pastor on this site, this blog should be full of God’s Word…NOT man’s!

    • J.M.
      God is the truth and some people just can’t handle it! If you make a statement to them, then your judging them, give me a break!

      • You, my friend, do not know the scriptures and are NO Pastor! You have let you passivity get in the way of the Scriptures. John 7:24 says, “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment”.

        One cannot judge with ‘righteous judgment’ without the Holy Spirit! “Ye MUST be born-again”!

        “If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire”. (1 Corinthians 3:15 (KJV))

        And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. (Jude 1:23 (KJV))

        What?! Hating even the garment? I quote the scriptures and you tell me to ‘give you a break’?! Why don’t you try telling God ‘to give you a break’! See how that works for you.

        Scripture says, “…others save with fear”! If I have to use ‘righteous judgment’ to do this, then so be it! If one has to suffer loss so that he himself shall be saved, then so be it!

        “Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure”. (Phil. 2:12-13 (KJV))

        ‘Work out your own salvation with FEAR AND TREMBLING’! This is NOT salvation by works! How do I know this? For verse 13 says: “For it is God which worketh in you…” And again in Phil. 1:6 it says, “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:” The ‘he’ in this verse is God. For example: Man is God’s creation and God gave man muscles which must be exercised (to work out) to be of any use. If they are not exercised, they will begin to lose strength. God has given man salvation through Jesus Christ. Now that we have this ‘salvation’, it must be exercised; it must be ‘worked out’ to be of any use. No one can do this for you, each man is accountable for him or her self.

        My point is…if I have to use the scriptures to prove to someone that the lifestyle, or sinful behavior, that they are practicing in will one day cause them to be cast into the Lake of Fire, and if I must saved them as so by fire and be a little judgmental, then so be it! I saved a soul!

    • Yes, all of those scriptures are spot on. People are to wishey washy now days. “Oh we must love them, they say.” Love doesn’t mean letting them keep up their evil ways without warning them. We warn in love, but warn them we must!!! It is not judging to warn someone. I agree with you sir!!!

  • “And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and IN ALL JUDGMENT; That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God”. (Phil. 1:9-11 (KJV))

  • Mike:
    Your right after Ezekiel 38 & 39 the Tribulation will start!

    • Pastor, that’s how I see it.

  • Mike:
    Its just my opinion: but Antichrist needs to get rid of the 2 most damaging factors before he takes office as the world leader.
    The Born again Christians and the Muslims! If these 2 factors remain, if would be almost impossible for Him to come to power!

    • Dan

      I’m not sure that Muslims won’t be here. Look at all the stories where the Catholic Church is trying to meld with it. Remember that people will be beheaded for not accepting the mark and that is exactly what Islam does. Just a thought.

  • J.M. I like being passive, its better than going around killing everyone. Please keep up your insults, as your Christian in name only, is that judging you?

    • I simply gave you the Scripture! Are you offended by the Scripture? Have you not learned anything from Paul? He called many out ‘by name’ that were teaching false doctrine. If one teaches contrary to sound doctrine then I MUST speak out for the truth! Many on this site are attempting to teach their own ‘opinion’ or their own ‘belief’. This is blasphemy! Remain with what the Scripture says and stop injecting your own personal views.

  • Dan

    I was speaking to Sylvia. J.M. please mellow out, we have an obligation to point out truth. But nobody has the right to down grade someone else.

    I have been in a conversation about a school in New York that is teaching kids tolerance. They told the girls to ask each other for a Lesbian kiss. Am I not to judge that?

    • What? You are not to judge sodomite behavior? God did! And he warns against it; it is abomination!

      • Dan

        Ok, I can see that you may have some issues with language. Take care

  • Dan:
    Alot of Christian parents are home schooling there children, the gay issue is out of control, soon Jesus is coming for us!

    • Dan

      agreed

    • Yeah my step son is home schooled because what they teach and of all things that’s happening in the schools these days. It has gotten worse since I was in school.

  • Dan:
    Look in Ezekiel 38: 19 and 20: there with be a great earthquake in the land of Isreal and the mountains who was thrown down will collaspe. This is why there will not be much muslims left to bitch to the Antichrist taking power. This is the Magog War! Which happens just before the Tribulation, its the counterattack to Isreal, soon Isreal going to start these wars!

    • Dan

      I know but look at Psalm 83 first. It hasn’t happened yet and I still think that will what causes the peace treaty. If you look to the north some of the countries in Russia are Muslim and that may be where many come from. It shouldn’t be much longer because the fig tree is almost in full bloom.

      I saw the samething today also about the line.

  • Everyone: I just read in the news from Isreal. The IDF said, Iran has crossed the red line, we must stop them by this summer!

  • Dan:
    Everything falls in a order. Isreal will attack Iran, but this will bring Russia into the picture, cause Russian ships are in Iranian ports. And surely these ships will get destroyed! The Assad will get mad, and start lobbying missles at Isreal borders. Isaiah 17:1 Isreal will nuke Damascus, the Iran will go to the UN plead bloodly murder. This will get others in a up roar, then Iran with Russia will plan there counterattack on Isreal with the aid of Libya, Turkey, Sudan and possibly Germany, this is called Magog War, Ezekiel Chapter 38 & 39! Then the Tribulation begins. Since I’m a Pre-tribber, I believe right before this uprising to attack Isreal the Born Again Christian will disappear !st Cor. 15: 51-52 as it will be a Mystery that we disappeared?

  • Dan

    Actually you and I agree, just not on the timing of events. I know that the ‘Rapture’ will take place pretrib.

    • Amen. How very few know and most importantly believe & accept this doctrine which is revealed by the Holy Spirit!

      • This doctrine of a pre-trib rapture is not taught by the Holy Spirit, nor is it in the Word of God. Matthew 24-‘immediately after the tribulation, the Lord will come.’ There is only one-second coming! and He will be the LION OF THE TRIBE OF JUDAH! Amen! (Brenda)

        • amen i agree

        • Dan

          If you look at 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 it would appear that they flow together, but actually it’s two parts. Paul tells us when to expect the taking away [Harpadzo or rapture]. First he says it will happen when the beast is revealed first. If you look at Daniel you will see that the anti-christ will confirm a 7 year treaty with Israel, that begins the 7 year tribulation.

          What Paul is saying is that the “rapture”‘ will happen then. Not after that man sits in the temple. In verse 4 he’s telling us what the beast does. Not when the rapture happens. If you look at Pslam 83 you will see that it hasn’t happened yet. I personally think this is what will cause the them to sign a peace treaty with Israel. Then the Anti Christ will confirm it.

          The wedding feast and the Rapture:

          If you take a look at what happened during the engagement and the wedding feast it will give you the idea of why there is a pre-trib. 1. The groom would go and become engaged 1a Jesus came to earth and became engaged to His bride [the church]. 2. The groom would go and prepare a place for them. 2a Jesus said I go and prepare a place for you. 3. The father would tell the groom when it was time to go and get his bride. 3a Jesus said no one knows the time but the Father 4. The Groom would go in a procession and recieve his bride.4a Christ will come and meet His bride in the air and we will all be changed. 5. The wedding feast lasted 7 days. 5a In biblical prophey 1 day is a year. The wedding feast of the Lamb will last 7 years. Which is the time of the tribulation.

          Something else that people seem to forget is what happened in Exodus. The children of Israel lived in Egypt for 400 years. During that time they picked up a lot of false beliefs from their captors. When it came to getting them free God used Moses to fulfill His promise to Abraham.

          Remember that these same people where in God’s eyes just as evil as the Egyptians. Deserving of judgment just as we are today. But He had them sacrifice lambs and spread the blood on the door posts and the Angel of Death passed them by because of the blood.

          During the tribulation we will not go through the wrath of God [Jacobs trouble], because of the Blood of the Lamb [Christ].

          You can believe that it won’t happen but if it does and and a post trib person is taken up, I bet not one will tell the Lord to send them back because it’s not biblical.

          2 Peter 3:3-7 *Matthew 24:37-39 *Revelation 3:3 *Matthew 24:3-8

          Luke 21:25-26 *Luke 21:29-33 *Joel 2:28 *Revelation 3:10-11

          I Thessalonians 1:9-10 *I Thessalonians 4:16-18

          Luke 21:36 *Matthew 7:21-23

          • This is Brenda, filling in for Ron right now. People can always pull out a certain scripture, and make it what they want it to be, as you can also say that about us post-tribbers. But if the Holy Spirit is guiding you, you can also discern and understand what the Lord’s truth is. In no way am I saying that the Holy Spirit is not with you, for I once was a pre-trib believer……until I fasted and prayed and asked for the understanding of end time prophecies. God showed me a lot more than what I thought I already knew to be the truth. Matt. 24:29-31 states that after the tribulation of those days, Jesus would come and gather His ‘elect’. God’s elect is the church. The elect are spoken of in Romans 8:33-39, verse 35 states, “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? SHALL TRIBULATION. OR DISTRESS, OR PERSECUTION, OR FAMINE, OR NAKEDNESS, OR PERIL, OR SWORD? Then verse 36 goes on to state, ” As it is written, FOR THY SAKE WE ARE KILLED ALL THE DAY LONG; WE ARE ACCOUNTED AS SHEEP FOR THE SLAUGHTER”… and if you go on down through the verses, you can see that there is a happy ending to all this…in verse 39, “Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus, our Lord.” Amen!

          • Dan

            I think Ron can speak for himself. If you don’t agree with me I’m not going to loose my mind over it. It is very disrespectful for you to imply that I just pulled scripture up and made up my own meaning. Have you ever read what Paul wrote about women teaching or being in authority?

          • Temper! Temper! I see that I kinda’ got to you, sir, or maybe the truth did! I’m not trying to take over Ron’s ministry, for I am in it with him. Yes, Ron can speak for himself, as he has shown, already. Hey, no hard feelings, as I can see by your picture that you are a big burley man, and not a cry baby, huh? God bless you, just the same. And yes, I don’t agree with you, but I have a right to state my opinion, also, don’t I? But I, sir, don’t get bent all out of shape. I here ‘disrespect’ from my husband sometimes, but, honestly, it must be a male thing, I am guessing? I meant no disrespect, and I do apologize, if you thought that. About women teaching, are you Baptist, or Church of Christ? God said that He would pour out His spirit on all flesh in the last days? Are these not the last days? Believe me, the only authority I have over me, is Ron and God, thank you so much. I know my boundaries, and God gave me authority to do what I am doing. If you have problems with that, sir, don’t read anything that has the name, Brenda, on it.

          • Dan

            Good to see that you can disregard the parts you don’t agree with.

          • As so do you, sir, but no disrespect to you. We could go ’round in circles, like a dog chasing his tale, but that would just get us both dizzy, LOL> I apologized, that’s the best I can do.

          • tale=tail

          • Dan: Praise the Lord for what you have written here.

            It is Jacob’s (Israel’s) trouble not gentiles’. Once the fullness of the gentiles comes; which means the gentile bride is ready, then He shall have mercy on Jacob, which is Israel (144000) for the keeping of His promise to Abraham.
            FIRST HE COMES AS A LIGHTNING…..RAPTURE
            Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
            TO GATHER HIS BRIDE….TO ITS BODY
            Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
            AFTER THE TRIBULATION THERE IS THE WRATH OF GOD, I.E SUN SHALL BE DARKENED, MOON WILL NOT GIVE HER LIGHT, STARS FALL, POWERS OF HEAVEN SHAKEN. THE 144K ARE SEALED AND WILL SURVIVE. AGAIN IT IS ONLY 144K, NOT ONE ADDED OR DIMINISHED
            Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

            THEN THE SON OF MAN SHALL APPEAR AND HE WILL COME DOWN AND THEY (NOT WE), I.E ALL (NOT SOME) THE TRIBES SHALL SEE AND THEY WILL MOURN.
            Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

            HE SHALL SEND HIS ANGELS TO GATHER HIS ELECT, 144K, THE REMNANT OF ISRAEL
            Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

            The above verses presents the following differences:

            RAPTURE: 1) We will rejoice to meet the Lord in the air. 2) The people of the earth will not be able to see Him as He will come as a thief in the night. 3) We will be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air

            SECOND COMING: 1) All the tribes of the earth who will see Him will MOURN (not rejoice). 2) All will see Him (not as a thief in the night) 3) The elect will be gathered by the angels (not caught up)

          • Ron here, So the 144000 are the elect here, Matt. 24:31 that get raptured. So is that what we see in Rev. 7:14? Rev 7:9, After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands. I know he Jews were a scattered bunch, but they are still one nation, one kindred, and people. The 144,000 will all speak the same language, for they will all be in Jerusalem. So this cannot be the 144,000. The 144,000 just got sealed in the previous verses. Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.Now, according to this verse, the tribulation people here will be before the Lamb, and the sun will not light on them, nor any heat, nor will they thirst anymore. Then who are these? Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. Are they not supposed to be in heaven at this time? What are they doing here with the seal of God? How could they come out of tribulation, Rev. 7:14, and still be around in the first woe of God’s wrath? Rev.9:4.

          • Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
            One thing that you missed, Levi, or left out, is the shining even unto the west, from the east. This tells me that you are mis-interpretating this whole verse. You take it that he’s coming as lightening, but that’s not what he said. he said , as lightening shineth ,so shall also the coming of he son ofman be. In other words, everyone will see him. Just another example of your twist and shout.

          • Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
            Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
            Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
            Does this look like everyone seen it? Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
            Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
            Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
            For surely, everyone saw this as lightening cometh out of the east and SHINETH even unto the west.

          • Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
            Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

            Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
            Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

          • Just how many raptures are we going to have, anyway? And the same effects on each one? Wow! If the world don’t get saved, after all this, they sure are a dumb bunch. What nonsense.

          • They are the same.

          • Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
            Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
            Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
            The rain came as a thief in the night to these people of Noah’s time also. They didn’t know it until it came, but once the flood came they knew it then, for it had never rained until that Day. The same will happen when Jesus returns for his elect.

          • Dan , Paul did not say, it would happen when the beast was revealed, that’s not what he said at all, brother. Paul said that, that day can not come until after the beast was revealed, not on the same day. As far as what he said here, it could of been 100 years after, or even 1,000,000,000 years after, he was revealed. He just told us that has to happen first. That is a big difference of looking at it. But that is exactly why you people don’t see it right, also. You take little words and twist the meaning to suit you doctrine, instead of studying it all out. If you twist Gods words, it will fit into just about anything you want it to fit, that is very clear as the many doctrines available today. I’m very sorry that you people can not discern, what is clearly written. But because you have chosen to love not the truth, well,!!!!!!!! It is sad. Trust not my words, but at least trust God’s. They will live forever, and never pass away.

        • And a lion lets His presence be made known, if you’ve ever heard one roar, it is loud, and so it will be when Christ comes back, it won’t be hidden, or a mystery. Every eye shall see Him, and He will be heard, by everyone!

        • Brenda, They will not listen to Jesus, what make you think they will listen to you?

  • DAN: Soon we will be together in HEAVEN. PRAISE JESUS CHRIST!

  • DAN:
    My wife dropped Facebook, because women were asking her for sex. And they knew her husband was a Pastor. These people are going crazy! One girl was 11 years old, asking my wife for sex!
    Everything is out of control.

    • Why was your wife a grown woman ‘befriending an eleven year old girl she did not know? and if she did know her why didn’t she copy that print it out and show it to her parents? Sent it to the Police…..? Or maybe she did do all these things and maybe the police told her to get off of Facebook…This is crazy…Facebook is nothing but breeding grounds for free perverseness…and all kinds of pictures freely given…sold to Facebook…all pictures are given to them they own them now!

  • Dan

    Wow that is scary. But it really doesn’t surprise me.
    I am on facebook but am cautious about who I accept. It does help me with reaching some people. I agree that our time is soon. And I must say I look forward to it. http://danbel.webspawner.com/

    • You’re still on it…..”but ‘you’re cautious”….?? ….Okay..! (smile)
      another one bites the dust!

  • DAN:
    TODAYS NEWS.
    Another Meteorite over Argentina on Sunday morning.
    7.2 earthquake in Northern Japan
    Obama created Marketplace Fairness Act for Taxing on line purchases on the internet.
    France voted in Same-sex marriges

  • J.M. I love my personal views, you state your personal views, is that really fair?

  • J.M. You stated about Judging from Dan’s blog. He’s not judging anyone, but you do judge them, are you without sin, please cast the first stone!

  • J.M. Allow Dan to say what ever he want to talk about?
    Or if you believes he’s wrong complain to NTEB.

    • Dan

      I think you misunderstand. I’m not hurt, it’s just that he doesn’t seem to get it. So I figured it was best to stop trying to get my point across. Did you look at the site?


  • Dan:

    I was speaking to Sylvia. J.M. please mellow out, we have an obligation to point out truth. But nobody has the right to down grade someone else.
    I have been in a conversation about a school in New York that is teaching kids tolerance. They told the girls to ask each other for a Lesbian kiss. Am I not to judge that?

    Help us Jesus i see now why new york keeps getting attacked !

    • Dan

      I agree, but it’s not just them. The nation as a whole is sliding down the sewer. Praise God we won’t have to go through the tribulation.

    • Actually no you are not to judge that…God is to judge the world,,…we are to judge one another (Christians) ..to righteously judge…and you know what…I am judging right now…I think with all the 100 …30 plus + emails a day is getting down right too much and the majority of them were a Pastor and a Brett discussing who is not respecting the other one…we are way too close to things that this world has no clue..yet it was told of them thousands of years ago would be upon them….would happen but because some perfer to believe Rabbits lay eggs and Satan Claus is God or is it God is Santa Claus…Governments lay in bed with sin, the gods of the World preached in the pulpits and the ‘majority’ of Christians seen…make Jezebel look like a Saint at a Christian Picnic at the Puritans Landing 1607…it down right scares me for all…it really does…yet as I continue to pray for all…I’ll either start a blog of my own or just remain in prayer for all who pass so much of their time yakking about things that only show when there is a multitud of words there is no lack of sin..example…ie..'<~here also…yes even here there is no lack of sin…as He said,..let our words be few upon the Earth…! Good night folks…May God protect you from your own wisdom and your own knowledge and keep you safe in the truth of your 'first love' I pray that is enough to keep you till He returns and finds 'Faith in us all ''…

  • While all this ugly activity was going on around the world, the angels in Heaven began to weep to see the wickedness abounding like crazy and the Lord caught sight of their distress and whispered in their ears….”I’m surprising the universe sooon for my arrival for the church.

    FOLKs: Can’t you feel the vibe something huge is on the horizon for us? Jesus Christ told us to be ready if we see these signs coming.

  • I must disagree you all will go through tribualation so get ready for the Rocky ride and see God test your Faith! The Rapture comes after tribualtion and i am not going to quote all the scriptures that backs it all up but Pastor you are teaching a False doctrine so beware when God jugdes You and your smart friends!

    • Sylvia,….YOU ARE SO RIGHT ….FEW BELIEVE THAT and many will scream ….they lied to me!!! but GOD did not lie to them!!!

      • I know we need to read our bibles so correctly! No where does it say a rapture before Jesus returns i pray all whom believe in the Rapture to start rethinking! No God has it all in his word GBU Sylvia

  • Sylvia:
    You know that there is more pre-tribbers than post-tribber, and time is getting short, soon we will fined out the truth? So you think I’m teaching false doctrine? How will you feel, if the Rapture occurred before the tribulation, and your still here? You say I have smart friends, please tell me where they are? I thought I did not have any friends and as unbelievers find out I’m a Born Again Christian, they have nothing to do with me! I really do hope God judges me, then I’ll know what to correct about myself! Tell the truth you do not like me very much?

    • I do not dislike anyone and i do not know you but i know the Church will go through tribulation and thats that and i am a born again christian and i believe Gods word and i will never believe the Rapture is before tribulation and so be it if i am here I will die in my faith I love Jesus he looks at me and i look at him and he we tell each other we love one another! A few years back i had a visit from a Holy man and i know i am pleasing in Gods eyes! iIdo not know you so how can i dislike you that is so chilish for a Shepherd of Gods flock to say i just disagree and i can so GBU Pastor and may you soften your heart and Humble it God looks at the heart and loves Humlity out of the ashes of sadness comes total humlity!

  • Dan

    Sylvia please read my views on the Tribulation. If you disagree it’s ok. I believe that if your correct and God determines we must go through it, then it just delays my being with Him for a short period. But at least read what I have to say, you might learn why we could be right about the timing. There is an article on the Rapture
    http://danbel.webspawner.com/

    • Thankyou for accepting my views and i have studied it all and i believe we will be here for tribulation and i am not afraid i fear man really i have no fear of God as i love him he has plans for us and he knows our hearts and i totally love him and wahtever i have to go through i have to he has it in his hands i have no control its all in his will i have been refined as Gold after losing my son and another so ill and rejection and loses and loneliness to the bone and my friend and Saviour will never leave me or forsake me a few years back a Holy man addreesed me and told me that the Lord woulld never leave me or forsake me and i know he was a Holy man as all the words he said and how he addressed me was for the pain ahead of my son dying and second husband destering me in but my son got another heart and kidney transplant and lived and my husband betrayed me with a Prostitue it broke me so but i kept thinking of what the Holy man told me the lord will never leave you or forsake you and i won my court battles and beat breast cancer all in 2 years so God loves me and i love him i have no qualms about dying for my Faith as i have another son in heaven i have had a sad life and God has sustained me every inch and i share my story to others so they can love him as i do GBU sylvia Tears are streaming down my face now its been so sad!

      • Hi Sylvia,

        I went through a similar situation with my ex husband. My divorce was the hardest thing that I have ever had to go through in my life. I can’t imagine the pain of losing a child. I am sorry about your son. You have been through a lot in your life and you are still serving God. You are a good woman. I will be praying for you and your family. Last night I was reading this scripture before I went to bed and it really encouraged me. Maybe it is for you as well 🙂 Psa 23:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. Psa 23:2 He makes me to lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside the still waters. Psa 23:3 He restores my soul; He leads me in the paths of righteousness For His name’s sake. Psa 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; For You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me. Psa 23:5 You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; You anoint my head with oil; My cup runs over. Psa 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me All the days of my life; And I will dwell in the house of the LORD Forever.

        • Thankyou so much i love the psalms and thankyou for your compassion! Yes i love my Master and i will see him and all of my lost loved ones including my little son and sister she was a baby when she died I remember my dad crying so when we lost Matthew aged 6 in 1981 and telling me about their first born they never spoke of it the way he did before My dearest parents gone but not lost but gone before as King David said i will go to him! GBU for replying your have made me smile!

  • Just a thought, fellas…
    There are many religions awaiting a leader.
    The Muslims are waiting for the next prophet after Mohammed, Jews are waiting for the “son of God” since they don’t believe Jesus was, Hindus are waiting for a leader, and so are Buddhists. The antichrist will perform miracles and deceive many religions into thinking he is the leader/son of God/prophet they have been waiting for, including many Christians. So I don’t think the Muslims or Christians will need to be “exterminated” in order for the antichrist to make his appearance. The bible says there will be martyrs in the end times, but it also says the Holy Spirit will protect the ones marked by God. 🙂 Take care guys!

  • And it is my own belief, as a Seventh-Day Adventist, that there will not be a “pre” tribulation. It says nowhere in the bible that there will be a pre-trib. In fact, the word “tribulation” is not found in the bible at all. Did God rapture the Israelites when He plagued Egypt? No. He protected them and they endured through it. I’m no pastor, but I’ve done my fair share of research in both pre and post tribulation. My post trib beliefs are just my opinion of course, it’s not changing and I’m not here to insult anyone who believes in the pre-trib. If the pre-trib does occur and I am blessed enough to end up in heaven before the trib, then awesome, LOL. But brothers and sisters don’t be surprised when you have to endure the tribulation. Know that the “pre trib” idea was invented in the 1800s to make people feel more comfortable about the idea of the tribulation. It’s one of Satan’s snares because if you believe in it 100%, you will naturally deny the end time events or the actual tribulation because you expected to be raptured before it happened and are still awaiting a rapture that isn’t coming until the end when Jesus returns. I don’t think it will matter though as long as you keep your faith in God because a Christian is a Christian, despite what trib you believe in. The only reason Satan invented the pre-trib is to discourage Christians when the rapture doesn’t happen when it is “supposed to”. It’s sort of like how the Jews are still waiting for the Son of man since they don’t believe it was Jesus. That is why they will be deceived when the antichrist appears, because they will be expecting a Christ, just like many other major religions are expecting a leader/god/prophet. Either way, let the Holy Spirit be your guide. Pray regularly and keep a kind heart.. please your Father and earn his unconditional love… He loves you and that’s all that matters in this world. Bless you all

  • The word “rapture” is not found in the bible* (not “tribulation”)
    My bad. Been up all night working like a mule, LOL.
    And by the way, before I get verbally abused for my faith, just know I’ve been a Seventh-Day Adventist my entire life.. I took a few years break and rebelled but came back to Christ after the Holy Spirit drew me back in… Many say adventists are a part of a “secret cult”, but I honestly think they are the nicest people I’ve ever met, and I’ve been to Lutheran and Cathoilic churches because my grandparents on both sides go to them. And many of our members are homeless, but religiously intelligent because they invest their life in the book of God. The members ask for nothing, but give so much. And when we study, we go by the bible. I’m not going to declare we are the right family of God because no one but God has that authority, but I can solemnly promise that we genuinely serve God from our hearts and carry-out his work with a clear conscience. I do not judge anyone by how they choose to worship God. As long as we are worshiping the God of Israel, Yahweh from the bible, I believe God will cut us a break seeing that this is 2013 and it’s basically impossible to be 100% accurate in worship. Last post, I swear! Peace be with you all 😀

    • Dan

      Josh there is a lot of info to discuss in your posts. The word Rapture is not in the bible but neither is bible. Harpadzo is the word that Paul used when he spoke about being caught up. 2nd Thes.
      The 7th day Adventist church used to be considered a cult because of some of their teaching. Remember David Koresh? Of course it isn’t as much today because some things have changed. A lot of main stream denominations see it as a religion of works because for one thing some of the leaders have quoted the “Sunday Law” and have said if you worship on Sunday your going to hell. We are told not to let anyone make rules about food or what day to worship. So who’s correct?

      If you or Slyvia or anyone else doesn’t want to accept “Rapture” it won’t matter. What matters is weather a person belongs to Jesus or not.

      I appreciate your coming back to the Lord and wanting to serve Him. That after all is the key. God bless

  • while the Church is still here on earth, these lost souls STILL have hope.

    the question is, WOULD they repent?

  • LEVI:
    Your back, Praised Jesus!

    • Steven, my friend, you persuaded me. 🙂 God bless you.

  • LEVI:
    We need better in sights of the scriptures, and you have the patience for that on NTEB web site, my brother! Don’t worry Ron is still here voicing his opinions? Stand strong for our Lord Jesus Christ! I’m still waiting for D City to return?
    Steven

    • Glad you are back, Levi. Yes, we are still here, so far. Wish D City would come back, too. What a reunion!!! God bless everyone in Christ. (Brenda)

      • Thank you Brenda. I hope all is well. I am in no mood of getting into those inconclusive & never ending arguments again. We believe what we believe and everyone is strongly grounded in the faith that he/she has received. But

        Matthew 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

        Matthew 8:13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

    • We are standing strong for Jesus , too, Pastor. 🙂

  • Steven: The Lord has been helping us by His Word and by His Holy Spirit.

  • LEVI:
    Did our private conversation help in any way? The Holy Spirit is in ourselves to connect to others.
    Steven

  • Steven: Yes it did and it always does.

  • Welcome back Levi, nice to hear you again !

  • Levi

    Mike: It’s good to see you too. Thank you. Believed that we’ll have a great time. Be blessed

  • Andrea:
    My wife is Mexicana, we live in Mazatlan, Mexico. This young girl 11 or 12 years old girl text my wife and asked her for sex.
    Isn’t a law you have to be over 18 years old to use facebook? There no basic laws in Mexico, to stop this young child do this to her, the child was fron Chile

  • Andrea: My wife stop using facebook, she only plays games on it!

    • well I use facebook for scripture only and all my facebook friends are strong chrisatians we inspire each other and plant seeds maybe being a pastors wife your wife could do this and be a example to God and you as a wife instead of games! Facebook is a grat tool to spread the Gospel and if any nasties come one Blocks thems! I love my friends on facebook and i have some unbelievers whom read all the scripture and are inspired good seed sowing!

  • After half reading the post I can only post the word of God here which I think are relevant:

    Matthew 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

    No grey area:

    Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
    2 Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    As these are the last days:
    2 Timothy 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

    And again if anybody thinks that anything which does not glorifies God is a righteous thing then he/she is deceived.

  • Levi

    All couldn’t see the Father’s revelation that Jesus was the Messiah. Likewise everyone cannot believe what has been revealed. Keep denying. May be it is not for you to know what the Holy Spirit reveals. Go on. May be your hearts are hardened to deny thetruth and that it appears a lie unto you. You have nothing but to argue and that is where you take pleasure in.

  • Dan: talk to Levi he is really blessed with the Holy Spirit!

  • Pastor, go to post #71. (Brenda)

  • Brenda: Watch out! Dan is a 7th day adventist! I’m sure happy I do not belong to any religious order, my church is here on NTEB Web Site! 2 to 3 gather I’m in the midst! I believe woman should voice their opinions, as Jesus said we are equals! But some live by the old ways, when Timothy speaks about women in churches. But we all are children of God. There is only Jews and Gentles, and I’m Jewish and I say, voice your opinions!

    • Yes, Pastor, I see. I am of Native American lineage, mostly, but Irish blood runs through my veins, hence my blue eyes. But in God’s eyes, ‘we are neither male nor female’, also, it says. Galatians 3:28 Thank you, Pastor. May God bless you and your house.

    • Dan

      Steven you have decided that I am a adventist… Your church is here on NTEB? Wow! You have decided that Churches [buildings] are bad and now I’m the enemy and people should watch out for me. Pastor? Not sure thats correct, but whatever. You didn’t mind being on my side as long as I was agreeing with you. Now I’m worthless and shouldn’t even be called a Christian…

      • What denomination are you, then? I am of the Holiness church, full blown Pentecostal, as you might have already guessed. Pastor was just being chivalrous, I might add, which, in these days is almost extinct. You are not our enemy, if you are a child of God. Don’t take things so hard. Believe me, the coming tribulation will be the crying time. We can rejoice a little now. Let’s be happy in the Lord! (Brenda) OH, I guess I’m teaching again, lol.

      • Dan,
        Don’t worry about Pastor, he speaks off the cuff sometimes. However, from what I have observed, he does mean well.
        God Bless You

  • Dan:
    Are you married? And if you are, do you put your wife in her place?

  • Brenda:
    When you set up you web page on NTEB, we can discuss post 71, I rather to speak to you about these issues!

  • Yes sir, that would be nice. Thank you. OH, and I’m not afraid of Dan, after fighting with a demon last night, to try to sift me as wheat, and to sway me from getting God’s Word out. I am sealed by the Spirit of Truth. I fear no man. I only fear not obeying God, when He tells me to do something for Him.

    • I will be quiet a while, ’til Ron comes back, then I will help him type some more. God bless all children in Christ Jesus.

  • Brenda: WoW? Your Irish, remind me not to get on your bad side?

    • Probably about 1/4 Irish, so you don’t have to worry ! 3/4 Cherokee.

  • Dan: Please, I said, Please! I’m not on anybody side! I’m on God side! I believe we need to be kind and respect to all, even women! They are equal to us, you treat them, as you want to be treated by all! You came acrossed very harshly, and God does not tell us to treat anyone in that fashion. We are in the last days, and alot of churches org. are right and wrong in their beliefs. I rather have a healthly discussions on this web site than not being allowed to voice my opinions in most churches I’ve came in contact with, I listen to the wisdom of God not men in churches. When the False Prophet forms the Universal One World Church. most of these churches will jointhis world church. Most churches are more worried about their finances than saving the unbelievers?

  • Ron: I was brought up by my parents to respect women, that all!

  • Dan: Nice to know that you are a pre-tribber; waiting for that blessed hope. God bless you.

  • Matt

    Amen Levi,

    I am glad to see others understand pre-trib rapture, and you laid it out clearly.

    God bless,
    Matt

  • Clearly? He’s blinded by the lightening.

  • Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the EAST, and SHINETH even unto the WEST; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

  • This did not say, He was coming like lightening. It is saying, you will see it.

  • Pastor, let us look at what Paul was saying here, okay.
    1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    Behold= look
    I=Paul
    shew=will tell
    you= church(Corinth)
    a mystery= a wonder
    ” ;”=here it is
    “We shall not ALL sleep, but we shall ALL be changed”.
    That is the mystery, Pastor, just like Paul said it.

  • Those that make God’s word a mystery will get a mystery. But they loved not the truth, 2 Thess. 2:10-11.

    • Now, your saying I’m a lier?
      Again remember, your the great leader of the Post-Tribbers, and if their is a Rapture before the Tribulation, then you have lead many into this Tribulation. That’s a big load to carry on your shoulders?

      • Well, brother I hope God uses me for that, It would be an honor to serve him through tribulation. 🙂
        No you are not a liar just because you believe in something.

  • Taking Brenda out for dinner. Be back later. 🙂

  • Ron, Without sounding rude, your just as bad as D City was with his Post-Trib theory, your just like a dog with a bone!
    Yes, their is many who believes in the Post-tribulation and I was one in the beginning, but still their is more than meets the eye.
    Let’s say I’m right, and the rapture does happen before the tribulation and their is apostasy and the lawless one is reveal. that mean you’ll be left behind. and many others on this web site that listen to you and believed you. Then your responsible for them entering the horrible Tribulation? This will cause many will fall away from their belief in Jesus Christ. So from your strong belief, they will blame you!

    As for me, I have nothing to lose! If I’m wrong, then I still will be recieved in heaven and my death in the Tribulation has served its purpose!

    But your wrong, then you have lead many in this time of Jacob’s trouble!

    • Well, What you are saying is if I’m wrong, then I’m lost. But if you’re wrong then it’s okay. Now that sounds a little judgmental to me. For surely I judge you not that way. So you are saying if you aren’t looking up you will miss him, and have to go through tribulation. Okay what about those two in the field and those two grinding at the mill, and what about them babys? Was they not busy working. If they knew Jesus was coming they would not be working , but looking up. But since He’s coming as a thief then they all will miss the rapture. Is that what you are saying? I believe to be ready is the key.

    • I’m trying to get people to be serious with God, and that’s going to cause them to fall? Don’t think so.

      • You said, your trying to get people to be serious about God. But your leading them to believe in the Post-Tribulation.

        Its good to get people serious about God!

        But by your theory of Post-Tribulation your leading them in that direction from your comments about the end times!
        Or will you say, they can do whatever they want to believe. But by your influance of the scriptures, they believe your right?

        • Yes Pastor that right I am. Now do you think I’m Leading them for not. But nay, I lead because of truth. Because it is not my words but they are Christ’s word. Jesus told you, Immediately after tribulation, You are not listening, but others will listen. If Jesus came to you, and you did not know who he was, and He told you, Immediately after tribulation Christ is coming back, you would say you don’t believe it. For indeed, He told you in His word, but you refuse to believe. For, if Paul’s trumpet was the last one, and it was before tribulation, then what trumpet was Jesus’ trumpet after tribulation?

          • Paul’s trump 1 Corinth. 15:52. last trump=Before Trib
            Jesus’ trumpet Matthew 24:31. ? After Trib
            Now, what is Paul’s trump doing last, if Jesus’ trump comes after? Please explain?

  • Levi

    Steven. As we know, the post tribbers will not listen to anybody. Because it is a strong delusion that comes from God that they should believe a lie because they did not believe the truth. This mystery of the rapture is too good to be true for them to believe. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. Their ‘wisdom’ has blinded them up. This is because they mocked the Holy Spirit and sinned against it by saying the per tribulation rapture theory comes from the devil. They think that what we believe is a fairy tale and they are only wise people on earth. This spirit of hidden pride is seen in almost every post tribber and to garnish it they have a very high hypocritical attitude of being so humble. I didn’t even read Ron’s messages because we differ in the basic understanding of the book of Revelation itself. He says that all the trumpet events and the seal events are the same. Lol. So there is no point in even wasting my time reading his lonnnng posts and finally disagree at the end. I am not going to respond to him which again will not make sense. They are what they are and we, we. The Word of God is for them that believe. Our God is a very clever God. He will give each man according to his faith. As for those who follow these post tribbers, the Lord will call them out and His sheep know His voice and they will follow Him; as sometimes you were a post trigger and you heard His voice and you followed.Him. Praise Jesus for His mercy. If it were not for His grace I would be the worst and a hopeless case in this world.

    • The only point I’m making is, that he’s making these statement about entering the Tribulation and he’s dragging others in the Tribulation, that is a shame!

      And why would Jesus make children go into this horrible Tribulation, as God is a loving God? And what about retarded children, there is no way they would understand why they are being miss treated?

      Ron is well advise in scriptures, but also Satan is also smart in the scriptures and he’s a great actor of deception!

      I wouldn’t want to be him when these christians are drawed into this tribulation, they will not be very happy about being lead there?

    • WOW! Levi, why are you so judgmental? Do you know our hearts so well, that you can say all that about us, to be the truth? Did God give you a special gift as to see the inside our souls? I think not. I wasn’t going to comment anymore on this post, but, after reading what you posted above, I just had to stand up for myself and other post-tribbers. Levi, you amaze me. Being judgmental when you know not the relationship of anyone’s soul with God, is walking on dangerous ground, my brother, as we all should know by now, as we are not babes in Christ anymore. It’s no wonder that sinners look at us Christians the way they do, for they think that we should have it together, or at least show a little loving kindness towards one another without being so cruel. 1 Corinth. 13:4-6 “Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth.” And all of the chapter talks about loving kindness(charity) to our brethren. Something we all should study on, I think.

  • Levi

    Sorry I am using a phablet so there are some spelling mistak evs and with auto ecorrect, this has made my writing worse.
    per = pre
    trigger = tribber

  • Levi

    Man, more mistakes. This is crazy.

    • Levi, don’t lie on me through, I did not say seal and trumpets are same.

  • Levi: I make more mistakes typing on this damn computer, I hate using it, but no choice!

  • Ron: I’m not saying you would be lost, if you do not fall in the Tribuation! You really like twisting every thing to your direction, to make other look as fools!
    Over time will tell?
    If they believe in the Post-Tribulation, as you been posting for months, and they follow your teachings, then they will fall, because they will think you lied to them!
    Everything comes out in your favor, that find, I just wouldn’t want to be you, when these people come after you and I bet Satan will make sure they know who is Ron!

    • Pastor you are not thinking clear at all. If I get people close to God enough that they would die for him, they would be taken out in the rapture, if it came before tribulation. They would be so happy that they got taken home, they all would kiss me and love me so much , because they did not go through tribulation. It wouldn’t make any difference. But if the rapture comes after tribulation, then the elect will thank me when it’s all over with.

      • Wrath of God, Study The 7 Trumpets and The 7 Vials Are the Same.

  • Rev 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
    Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

    Rev 8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
    Rev 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

    Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

  • Rev 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
    Rev 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

    Rev 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
    Rev 16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
    Rev 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

  • Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

    Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
    Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

  • Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
    Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
    Rev 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
    Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
    Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
    Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

    Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
    Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

  • Rev 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
    Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
    Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
    Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
    Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
    Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
    Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
    Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
    Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
    Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

  • Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
    Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

    Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

    Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
    Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

  • Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

    Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

    This opening of the temple in Rev. 11:19 was after the 7 plagues were fulfilled here, also, as it was in Rev. 15:18

    • RoN. Your writing alot of Scriptues, are you trying to convince others or your self?

      Do you see these post’s, there running around like a chicken that got his head chop off, fear in running rapid, if you believed that you are justified by Jesus blood, then why fear anything!

      I believe there is alot of Jesus in name only running scared!

  • I’m already convinced, Pastor. But yes you are right, the fearful will not make it to heaven, I fear. Hay, did I say that! 🙂

  • If we are truely saved, why fear God! But being meer humans we do fear the unknown from man’s actions toward us!

  • I agree there are similarities and parallels in both the judgments of trumpets and judgments of vials. But I don’t see in anyway they are the same.
    The reason why they think both are the same events is because they refer to the same areas or the vicinity, like, the earth, sea, rivers, heavens, torment, Euphrates and the temple of God. The reason for this is that each angel is designated to that particular vicinity.
    Let us see each event separately:

    1st Angel:
    Rev 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
    Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

    The judgment is poured upon the EARTH
    Consequences:
    Trumpet: ONLY THIRD PART (two third still left out) of the grass is burnt
    Vial: men with the mark of the beast suffered

    2nd Angel:
    Rev 8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
    Rev 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
    Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

    The judgment was poured on the sea.
    Consequences:
    Trumpet: Sea turned into blood and ONLY THIRD (two third still left out) PART OF LIFE DIED
    Vial: Sea turned into blood and 100% DEATH

    3rd Angel:
    Rev 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
    Rev 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
    Rev 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
    Rev 16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
    Rev 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

    Judgment upon the rivers and fountain of waters
    Consequences:
    Trumpet: ONLY THE THIRD (two third still left out) part of the waters became wormwood and many men (not all) died.
    Vial: The waters became blood and there is no mention of death over here.

    4th Angel:
    Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
    Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
    Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

    Judgment poured out of the heavens
    Consequences:
    Trumpet: ONLY THE THIRD (two third still left out) part of the sun, moon and stars were darkened. ONLY THE THIRD (two third still left out) part of the day and night did not shine.
    Vial: Totally opposite of the trumpet judgment here. Men struck with scorching heat. No mention of the moon and stars.

    5th Angel:
    Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
    Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
    Rev 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
    Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
    Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
    Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
    Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
    Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

    Judgment of torment
    Trumpet: Star falls from the sky on the earth, sun and air was darkened and locusts come out of the bottomless pit and bite men and the torment is great. So there are supernatural beings here which will torment men of the earth.
    Vial: Vial is poured on the seat of the beast and darkness filled the beast’s kingdom and the people were tormented. No mention of anything falling on the earth. No mention of the supernatural beings. No mention of the bottomless pit.

    6th Angel:
    Rev 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
    Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
    Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
    Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
    Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
    Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
    Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
    Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
    Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
    Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

    Judgment of the river of Euphrates
    Consequences:
    Trumpet: 200 Million fierce looking horsemen stand up to war, from whose mouth come fire, smoke & brimstone by which again ONLY THIRD PART (two third still left out) of men were killed.
    Vial: Euphrates dries up. Three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, beast and false prophet to deceive the nations of the WHOLE world to prepare to war of Armageddon. No deaths here.

    7th Angel:
    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
    Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
    Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
    Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
    Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
    Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
    Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

    We don’t see judgment here but the temple of God is revealed
    Trumpet: God and the Lamb is extolled. Opening of the temple of God.
    Vial: Vial is poured out in the air. Voice comes out of the THRONE “it is done”. The great city was divided into three. Babylon is punished. Islands and mountains flee. Plague of hail stones fell on the earth. So this judgment is not mentioned in the Trumpet.

    Conclusion: I would like to say that both the judgment periods are different and the events themselves are separate. They are NOT one and the same. I could understand in this way. The judgments of trumpet are just a kind of warning but the judgments of vials are in full scale devastation.
    In most of the trumpets only one third of the earth, sea and the sky is affected while the major part of these is left untouched.

  • Levi: I’m so tired going back and forth with Ron’s ideas what his opinon of the Tribulation. I now understand why when I went to Bible College, my instructors told me don’t go there in the scriptures about the end times, now I understand. They told me there will be false teachers and by Satan’s deception, they there selves, would not know there misleading other from the truth.
    But I was stubborn, believing it would be simple to show the differences, but when Satan get awhole of your mind, he can confused others, without they knowning it, he gets to our pride! Because, know one wants to be proving wrong? And the more we study, the more we think we know more than others, that pride again!

    So I’m as guilty, as Ron is the same, from our pride. I should of learned that when I dealt with D City, but by Satan’s deception, he clouded my thoughts and I could not see the truth. Instead, getting angry with others, God was teaching me, to relized that Satan can cloud your mind and you’ll never know he’s doing it to you! But God, I’m only human, we all think we know more than others, but actually we are just students of the Bible Scriptures, as our minds develops each day learning more about God!

  • Levi

    Steven, if we allow the Spirit of God to teach us then we will always be His student and by that we will never fall into pride. Instead if you start judjing others saying, what I have got is of the Holy Spirit and the rest is all from the liar then it won’t take much time that you fall in his trap.

    • Levi: But we also got to remember we are just humans, and with Satan’s deception, he will get us to use our pride, even with the Holy Spirit within us, its a daily battle with Satan. But pride will enter us, we are sinners, but in our daily prayers and study of his word, we learn how to better fight off these temptions from Satan. Until we enter heaven, then we will be able to understand everything, and pride will be done away. Or if we believe, we will never fall into pride, then Satan won and we will fall from grace! Its a never ending battle with Satan, he’ll always have the upper hand on us, until we enter into heaven. The day we became sinner’s, we fell into Satan’s trap! We need to always be aware of his deceptions, remember he’s against us? The Holy spirit help us to make correct decisions, but the Holy Spirit does not control our human emotions, and that can be our down fall. When the Tribulation begins, many by their human emotions will fall from grace, becauise they think we could never fall because the Holy Spirit is within us? But Satan is the Master of Deception, if we do not stay on top of everything, he will attack our human emotions!

  • Foridahanks: Read my post 184: That why Errol, Lezlow and others do not see the truth from God’s Scriptures.

    For me, being a student of the Bible, I hopefully with two life times, even to scatch the surface of Scripture, in every verse there is a meaning to learn, but our prides get in the middle, and with our stubbornness we believe we are right, but most of the time we are wrong! Praised God for teaching me that. There are just somethings we will never learn ahead of the time of the event will happen. We are just trying to out guess it! Boy! Satan is the expert on Deception! See how simple it is for Satan to get into our minds.

  • Levi:
    I’m finally relizing everything, I’m opening up my mind to God! Until we allow God to teach us, with a clear mind, then we see the truth, but if we use our emotions, then we loss it to Satan’s Deception!

    • Absolutely right. The Muslims, SDA, JWs and many more with the same pride of knowing & quoting scriptures think they have won the argument. For Eg. The Muslims say “Just show me one verse from the Bible where Jesus says ‘I am God'” but WE know by the REVELATION from the Father that Jesus is God. The post tribbers try to go the similar way: “Show us one scripture which says that the rapture will occur before the trib” and again WE stick to the REVELATION from the Father that Jesus is coming before the trib. We need to humble ourselves. I don’t say that we always have to accept the others doctrine but I say we should NEVER mock at what they have received. If you do, that itself shows that you are so prideful.

      • Levi,
        It’s good to see you back with us.
        It’s no use trying to change the post-trib believers; they seem to think that we need to prove our love for Him by being here during the trib. But, nowhere have I found that. By grace we are saved thru faith in Him. We know, Christ died for each one of us, we just accept His free gift and follow Him.
        The Bible says that (1) He will never leave us or forsake us; (2) Do not worry, let today take care of itself; (3) He is with us always even unto the end; (4) Peace I leave with you. Isn’t that enough?
        Bless you Levi, a true man of God.
        Got to go now!!

  • Levi: We need just eagerly watching the signs develop and relate them to our daily lives, but when we try to out guess everything, then we will be thinking we are better than God, it comes from Satan’s deception. Its impossible to prove who is right, about Pre, Mid, Post Tribulation until the event happens? God wants us to walk in the likeness of Jesus Christ or God, even that can be a hard thing to prove, if we are using pride to control us? Boy, I bet the apostles were just as confused as we are today?

  • LEVI:

    ” ALERT”

    State and local government have become addicted to Federal welfare money. Food stamps enrollment is seen as a key means of economic growth, brings about 6 billion in each year. The states are finding people and enroll people into these programs. Many states have monthly quotas that need to meet. ” What will happen to welfare dependant cities, when the money runs out?”

    Detroit is a war zone today! What id suddenly, they lost their government hand outs?

    A break down of the debt –based monetary system would forced governments around the world to declare “Martial Law.”

    What we saw in the Boston , would be the prefect event.

    The occurance of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture will only make things worse. Since believers are part of the financial backbone of America, our sudden removal would destroy what remains of the economy. See: Luke 21:36

    Americans fear the Government more than a terrorist attack. Just this week, Obama said, Pass my Budget or fear loosing your programs!

  • Steven: The world belongs to the devil because from the beginning this darkness has never been obedient to Christ. When He said “Let there be light”, darkness was still there. It did creep in finally. So He had divide Day from Night. Because this world has rejected the Light, He is going to destroy it in the end. Then there will be only Day and no Night. This has to be in every man as well. The Day which will never end, the Day of His rest, His Sabbath, the truth Sabbath

  • LEVI: Our down fall is our emotions, and Satan will take advantages of these emotions! Some loves God, but other love money, but there both emotions. When we argue, of our differences, its our emotions. When we first became Born Again Christians, it was our emotions!

  • Well what is so interesting is That I’m no way finished, with this. Because what is amazing is that all the other events line up with this. The Tribulation, rapture, and the sealing of the 144,000, are in perfect order with these commons of the trumpet and vials. And that, my dearest, friends. I hope to be able to show you that soon, but right now I’m going fishing again. I love you all.

  • RON: Are you going to tell us another, fish story, I bet those little fish you catch turn into giant fish, is that the reason it takes you so long to fish. It only takes me about 20 minutes to get a big fish, we live almost 4 blocks from the fish market to get my fresh fish for dinner! LOL

    • Pastor, Ron has left the building. LOL. We have a river right below us, the mighty Tug Fork, of the Big Sandy. He and his Pastor friend go fishing together. Ron is an outdoorsman, through and through. He loves to hunt and fish, and just getting out and enjoying the beauty of the creation of God. He spent years underground in the coal mines, as did my dad, and his dad, just the same, so getting outside, in the big outdoors, he really cherishes! I hope you are doing better, today, Pastor. We enjoy talking with you. And as for me, I need to get outdoors a little, myself. These 52 year old legs need a good, long walk, LOL. God bless you.

  • TRACY: PRAISED GOD!

  • BRENDA:
    Question? Would you think God would make retarded child go through any part of the Tribulation, and try to live in that most horrible time that we will ever feel? In the first place, this child would not even mentally understand what is happen to he/she? And ask that child to go to the chopping block?
    God is not that kind of person, that why I believe in the Rapture before the tribulation!

    • Pastor, I used to work with ‘special needs’ people in Tennessee. I feel for them, they have a special place in my heart. It is hard to see that, for me, also. Why a loving God would do such a thing? Why did He let the Jews and their children be murdered by Hitler in those horrible gas chambers and by firing squads, and other horrific ways? We don’t understand it all, but when we get to be with the Lord, maybe then He will give us an understanding of all things, I do believe. He has set His plan in motion. Nothing can stop it, not even what we might think to be true, or even what we would like to imagine the end would be like.

  • Brenda: You said why is Levi so judgemental. I can also ask you why you are so judgementally to retarded child entering the Tribualtion?

    • Pastor,
      You need to be a little careful regarding people’s denominations. I think you hurt Dan (above). I just read these post a short while ago. Read the post twice, before you respond. Maybe I should too!! Something to think about.
      God Bless

    • Pastor,
      This debating back and forth about the rapture is turning good Christian people away. Can’t you see where we have lost some of the people that used to post here? Not ONE of us has changed our mind, nor will we; unless God intervenes. Therefore, let’s just move on and make the very best of each and every day. Praise Him and give all the Glory to Him.
      God Bless

  • Brenda: I bet your 52 year old legs look as they did when you were 20 years old!

    I heard on Fox news thay NBA JASON COLLINS came out of the closet stating he’s GAY! And President say’s that’s great! Fox said, everyone is behing him!
    They never talk to me, I’m not everyone!

    • LOL, thanks, Pastor. I don’t support the gay agenda, either.

  • Typo= President = Clinton!

  • Brenda: The time of Hitler and the constration camps for the Jews, As my Grandfather sister died in one, but we are talking about a more horrible period in time, the Tribulation. The difference in the constration camps the Jews was forced into the horrible death. But the people, at least at first, will have a choice, it will be a bad choice, but its done freely!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Will these special education children have a choice to freely get there heads chopped off? And will they understand why its happening to them? God give all of us the freedom of choice, he even gave Satan the freedom of choice. But these children will not understand freedom of choice?

    • Pastor, have you even looked at Matthew 24:19? So what would you say about it?

  • Dan: Stop getting upset with my comments! I was not trying to harass you in any way, but I believe in Faith of Jesus Christ and he’s not part of any religious order as Americans calls Christian churches. Let’s look at scripture: Acts 7: 48- However, The Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands. And again:
    Acts 17:24- The God made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.

    I do not have to belong to any religion to hear God speak to me and I do not have to enter a church building to feel God’s present.

    1st Cor. 3: 16-17 Do not you know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man destroys the temple of God. God will destroy him, the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

    Matthew 18: 20-For where 2 or 3 have gathered together in My name, there I am in the midst.

    Look at how I & Ron disagree over scriptures, can you really put your trust into a minister in any religious church. All churches has their faults in their teachings of the scriptures.
    1st Cor. 2: 5- that your faith should not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.

    When I finished Bible College, I was sent to a Christian Church, but soon I found out that the minister was more interested in his building fund than saving souls!

    To prove my theory, I walked into a Christian Church in Redwood City, Ca. looking homeless and dirty, even a little smelly! Within 5 minutes I was ask to leave there church. Back in those days, I was a rebel, so I said, I refuse to leave until church is over, they called the police and I was force out!
    James 2: 2-6; For if a man comes into your assembly with a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes, and there also comes in a poor man in dirty clothes and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, you sit here in a good place and you say to the poor man, you stand over there or sit down by my footstool. have you not made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil motives? Listen , my beloved brethren; did not God choose the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? But you have dishonored the poor man, is it not the rich who oppress you and personally drag you into court.

    When I went to court in 3 days as I set in jail, I told the judge this statement of God’s Scrtipture and the judge release me but it still made the pastor mad, that I did not have to pay a fine!

  • TRACY: We both can be direct! But I see God being very direct also! He needs to read post 211.

  • Brenda: please listen to post 211.
    When I was a street minister in Rescue Mission’s, I heard this Fire & Brimstone Minister, boy did he cut to the bone to me, but I truely listen to him. He told me after the service, I said, is not that really being bold and some might get hurt by your comments. He said, if you can not take the heat, get out of the kitchen!

    Brenda, how many times you said that to Ron? LOL

    • Pastor, I think you are an honorable man, regardless of what others may think. I was telling Ron that we should lighten up on each other, just yesterday! Ron is stubborn, as you say, but I am just as stubborn, sometimes. It’s all just our human nature. I have never been one to take life to seriously, as it is short, and we all have to face our final appointment. God knows that we all can stand a’ little room for improvement’. I try to see where both sides are coming from, and to understand. Yes, that phrase is true. Sometimes it gets really heated on here, doesn’t it? That’s okay. Didn’t people get annoyed by Jesus, so they turned and left him? Nothing new under the sun? And about the children, again, I really can’t say what will happen, but history does have a way of repeating itself. In my belief, now mind you, this is just my ‘theory’……..maybe the children won’t get their heads chopped off, or anything. Maybe it’s just for the adults, since they can choose for themselves…..then the children would have to be taken care of by the government…to raise them under the rule of the antichrist, to make them slaves, or something…after all, children work as slaves in third world countries every day. Have a good evening, Pastor. 🙂

  • Brenda: Its all guess theory, no one knows for sure what really going to happen except its going to be horrible!

  • Ron: You asked me my opinion of Matthew 24: 19- Its a simple request from God!
    But woe to those who are with child and to those who nuse babies in those days.
    · part of this verse:
    1. woe = warning
    2. the ones that enter the Tribulation with baby stuck away in their stomach, in those days, getting treatment, will be almost impossible.
    3. Those who become pregnant in the Tribulation, and deliver babies there will hardly be any milk to feed them!

    • But pastor surely some of those will be retarded, is God going to make them go through trib? At this time only 3 1/2 years are left of the trib as you see it is left. Wouldn’t all the baby’s be sucking in those days. So who are the children he’s referring to. Your answer is not clear enough to see.

      • Ron,
        The babies won’t be feeding if the Mother’s are starving to death because they cannot buy or sell. They might just go straight on to Heaven, leaving the Mother’s behind. Wouldn’t that be sad? I would call that tribulation too. Notice there’s no mention in Matthew 24 of young children running around thirsty and hungry. Why? They will already be in Heaven.
        God Bless

        • That is why it said woe, Tracy. There is no mention of adults going thirsty or hungry in Matthew either, Tracy but, He did say Woe to those with child.
          Luk 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
          Luk 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
          Luk 23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
          One of the last things Jesus said before He died, Tracy.

  • Completion Trumpets & Vials

    Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
    Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
    Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
    I f we look at this carefully we see the rapture of Jesus that he spoke of here is referred to in Matthew.

    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
    This sure sounds like mourning to me, as in Matt.24:30

  • Levi

    Tarcy. I am so glad to see you again. I am not here to change anybody here. I am here to defend the faith which they so ridiculously call it a fairy tale. I feel so hurt with that. I let the Lord alone to change anybody’s heart, which is not my job at all. In case I really feel so burdened about the souls headed for hell, if God helps, I would fast and pray for those souls but in no way I would insult them. If I insult then it is nothing but pride in me. Kill that pride the first thing comes in mind is not to hurt someone. If you hurt then you are not letting God to work in that person. May be after a certain age or so we begin to think that we are too smart though we do not admit it; our old man is still alive and well. Be blessed Tracy.

    • Levi,
      How well I know. You’re defending not attacking; there is a big difference.
      Bless you Levi and Peace be with you always.

  • So, if or not we can see Rev. 6: 12 is the rapture just like Matt. 24: 29:31, then we still see in rev. ch. 7 is just after this opening of the 6th seal as described in Rev. 6:12-17.
    Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
    So here we see the people knowing that his wrath is come. Note shall meaning has not happened yet.

    • Ron,
      We truly believe that you are sincere in what you have posted, but that doesn’t mean we agree. You need to understand that we, pre-trib believers, see a Rapture of the Church before the tribulation, and the second coming of Jesus Christ after the tribulation ends.
      God is with His children from the beginning to end. What more can we ask? Isn’t that enough for all of us?
      Bless you Ron

      • Jesus says he’s coming back in Revelation 19
        Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

        Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
        This is clearly after tribulation and also most of the wrath of God. Only the great battle is left, Armageddon.

  • Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
    Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
    Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
    So in Rev. 6: 12 we see the signs of the rapture, just before the 7 trumpets. And now we see the same rapture, just before the 7 vials. So this covers the Rapture. I’m saving the tribulation for last, so please bare with me.

  • Levi

    Tracy. I am sorry I misspelt your name. I am on phablet again.

  • Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
    This is the angels preparing for the wrath of God.
    Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
    Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.The 144,000.
    These are before the 7 trumpets, also.

    Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.
    Now this is before the vials, Showing the 144000 have been sealed. Not a lot is given here on this group, but at least they are memtioned here and that the seal will be the Lambs Father’ names.

  • So with all this said and looked upon , now we know the Rapture is covered, the sealing of the Remnant is cover, so now let’s cover the people in heaven just before the wrath of God is pour out upon the world.
    Let me add something here, let’s go back to Rev. 6:16
    Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb.

  • We see here Fall on us and Hide us. this is clear evidence that the wrath has not come yet, because they wanted to be hid for it.

    • So, You see this is where pretribbers lose sight of reality. They will not separate tribulation from the wrath of God, despite the evidence here.

      • Ron,
        What makes you an authority? Sorry, we don’t agree with you.
        Why don’t you get Dr. Charles Stanley explain this to you.

        • What make Charles an authority?

          • I knew that’s what you would say. You can’t take it that we won’t agree with you.
            God Bless you Ron

          • I’ve told you before Tracy , I don’t need you or pastor to believe me it’s not about you , it’s about helping others. Just ignore me. You people just need to move on, go do your thing. Go teach. I check it out . Do you think I would come on your teaching and start trouble. No I would not. You have a right to it. So why are you all here , doing this for. Don’t I have any rights here? Are you people become like Obama? 🙂

  • Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
    Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
    Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

    Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

  • So, now we see all the events leading up to the wrath of God. First the Rapture then, at or about the same time, or quiet possibly before, the sealing of the 144000, and then we see the multitude in heaven that came out of great tribulation. Each one in their respective places just before the 7 trumpets and 7 vial of God’s wrath. Now let’s look at the Tribulation, shall we. That one is easy.

  • Rev 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
    Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
    Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
    Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
    Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
    Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
    Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
    Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

  • As before these two Tribulation visions line right up with the 7 Trumpet and the & 7 vials, prospectively. So with everything laid out in order in both haves we can now see a wider view of what will happen in the end time events. There are actually 5 distinct layers of the complete episode of events for the end time as Rev. describes it, But these two are the major ones and once they are clear to you, you should be able to see the others.

  • Levi

    Tracy: I wonder why no body has written the book of revelation in a chronological order. Very soon someone is going to do that. 🙂

    • Why don’t you do that Levi?

      • If you will do that I will read it. I won’t interfere with it in any way. Please It would be for God, Then do it, brother, do it.

  • Luk 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
    Have you ever considered where this is? It is upon the earth for the 12 tribes will be the 144000 in the 1000 year reign of Christ upon the earth.

    Zec 8:3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.
    Zec 8:4 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.
    Zec 8:5 And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.
    Zec 8:6 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes? saith the LORD of hosts.

    Jer 30:20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress themJer 30:20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them.

  • Levi

    Ron: There are plenty of Bibles with different versions, and I know you won’t have any problem with them but the pre tribbers. Lol.

  • Levi

    Confusion galore in explaining the trumpets and the vials and the seals. I have already disproved the view of trumpets and vials as the same event. There is no word on that but I see further explanation basing with that false view. I just cannot stop smiling at them but I do laugh when the pre tribber’s view is ridiculed. Lol

  • I use only one version, KJV. Thank you , Levi. God bless you brother. By the way, I didn’t call your pretrib doctrine of the devil, when I said” fairytale”, I was referring to such as Goldilocks or Cinderella, I’m sure the devil didn’t write these. But pay it no mind, brother. God bless anyway.

  • You all are tired of my Theology, You want me to quit , is that it? I never ask for your input. Do I torment you? I have to ask all of you, WHY? All I’m doing is Placing Scripture up and it seems you all wiggle like it really insults you. , WHY? Why do you even bother if I’m so wrong? Lezlow can put his Koran doctrine up and you ingnore it. Why don’t you Ignore mine? Do you fear me? I have to ask, Why?

    • Ron,
      It’s like you’re “right” and we’re “wrong.” It’s not fear, it’s just rude. What makes you speak with such authority? I truly don’t understand why God would reveal the end-time events to you with such assurance. It’s a future event. Can you see the future? I can’t; but I believe the Holy Spirit helps others to read and understand His Word as well. Just don’t try to push your rapture theory on everyone.
      I don’t think that’s asking too much.
      God Bless

      • I don’t push on any one, Tracy. Are you saying, I’m not allowed here? And Yes Tracy I can see the future it is clear to me through the word of God, by the Holy Spirit. Jesus was Rude , also. They crucified him for that. Do you want to crucify me, Tracy. If you would study my Post you would see that 90% of it is the word of God only. Yet you dismiss it anyway. I take God’s word for what it says . You take God’s word for a Mystery. Lezlow comes on teach his Muslim Doctrine and you uphold him , I’ve seen you up hold him. You say you have the Holy Spirit leading you? And You come against me , you say have the Holy Spirit lead you? I say what I say is Through the Holy Spirit. Then what would you say that I’m a Liar? But If I be a man of God then what does that make you. God judge between us . I judge you not.

        • Please don’t start putting words hear that aren’t true. Never once have I upheld Les, Leslow are whatever. I tried to help him with salvation one time, and then let it go.
          No, I haven’t called you a liar, read my post above where I said that you believe what you are teaching.
          We just disagree on the timing of the Rapture.

  • Levi

    Why do you think that we are unhappy with your posting of scriptures? Types of Shabbir Ali, Zakhir Main, Ahmed Deed at post scriptures twisting the meanings and their interpretation. I would they post their Quran which would be far better. Posting scriptures to accommodate your own doctrine makes people irritating.

  • Levi

    Main = Naik
    Deed at = Deedat

  • Levi

    http://www.dealtorontohomes.com/hs/occtrain03.html
    Fairy tales are satanic. In case you weren’t aware of that

  • Will you be like Israel? Will you find prophets to say, what you want to hear? There are many out there, to do that for you, as long as you pay them well, they will prophesy.
    So the Koran is better than what I say, But I say the Koran is of satan, so that makes me lower than the devil in your eyes. Your hatred I feel, Just as Israel delt, to the prophets of old. So you judge me as prideful and as accommodating my doctrine. Why would I do such a thing, When your doctrine sounds so much better? But if I be of God, then what does that make you all? Be careful my family, I love you all, but don’t cross God for my sake. I’m here to teach that which, He has sent me. It is up to you to respond. If I be a man of God, you have come against me. Repent, I beg of you. Not to me but to God. I am nothing , but God is Lord of Heaven and earth.

    • Ron,
      I listen to Charles Stanley and John Hagee. They don’t teach post-trib. So who are we going against, you are them?? Neither!!! We do have the right to our theory too.

      • Tracy: Remember you told me to drop it!
        Ron is just like D City he’s unable to drop it, because I believe he would not have anything to discuss with us? And his pride controls him!

      • Amen , then I say to you teach it. But why do you try to interfere with me teaching? You have as much right as I do, you say. Okay that is good . Teach sister teach. I would like to hear it. I just love The Bible , lay it down, the way it should be.

  • LEVI: That’s a good task to do about Revelation

  • Ron: your back to your insults again as Pre-tribbers do not live in reality’ YOUR WIFE SHOULD SLAP YOU ON BOTH CHEECKS

  • Levi: Don’t you see Ron’s problems, from his pride he can not drop the issue of pre-trib or post-trib, it becoming a Psychological mental disease to him!

    • It’s my calling , Should I abandon it?

  • Everyone who disagrees with Ron, just stop address that subject with him and talk about saving lost souls, because he’s more worried about his soul and proving his point in his discussions

    • Good Idea pastor , you people go preach to the lost leave me to teach people that want to know.

  • LEVI: What is the main focus of a Born Again Christian? I believe past the faith to others?

    • Not everyone has a calling , to do the same work, brother. Not all are , Pastors.

  • RON: You just love argueing with others and your enjoyment in life is proving your completely right and everyone else is wrong!

    • That’s not true. Do you get that assessment, from me posting my theory. Or did I say you are wrong. If I said you are wrong on your theory then show me where.

  • Ron: I have learned in life’s ups and downs, I’m not right half the time, especially with a woman. Before you try and prove some one wrong you need to do in depth study of the Pre-trib theory, by going to different web sites as: www. raptureready.com when you see both side of the coin then you can claim that there is no doubt that the Pre-Trib is right.

    • I have done that already Pastor. I know at least 95% of all the pretrib theories. I understand them well, would you like me to expound on them? I could, I might would even teach you a thing or two about it.

  • Ron: hell you don’t, you push your theory on us all the time, I and Tracy been listening to you for months as you rattle on about what you believe the scriptures are telling you, when did you become this expert?

    • I’m I preaching to you pastor? I’m just posting that is it and bible at that, Why are you angry, brother?

  • TRACY: As I said, before he’s like a dog with a bone, he’ll never let go of that bone, even he think he needs to turn on us and bite us!

    • You are right brother I need that bone. It gives me life. But you are wrong, I would that you share it.

  • Now what’s really good is Rev. 16:15
    Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
    This is when Jesus comes back to earth to reign. This is when he comes back to the Mount of Olives. For he said here that I come as a thief. Now how can we prove this. Well for one the demon coming out of the previous verse signifies Rev 19:19
    Here they are.
    Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
    Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
    AND
    Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
    Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    The Battle of that great day of God Almighty, called Armageddon, from,
    Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
    is the same as He comes back on the white horse in,
    Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
    Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
    Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
    Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
    Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
    So you see The thory that he’s coming as a thief for the rapture is not correct at all, it is referring to the coming back to earth for the battle. For surely if they was expecting him they would of not come.
    Now that we have that straight, look at what is in that battle in ,
    Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
    That’s right horses and horseman. Now rev. 16: didn’t say anything about horses or horseman, but Rev. 9:16 sure did.
    Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
    Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
    Okay how could these be the same as the horseman of Rev. 19:18. Doesn’t make sense does it, not until you figure in,
    Eze 38:21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man’s sword shall be against his brother.
    Eze 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

    Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
    Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
    Zec 12:4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
    Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

  • Ron: are your finger getting a little tired of typing? These long sermons? I use to fall asleep to these long sermons!

  • TRACY & LEVI: Pastor Ron is giving one of his long sermons again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????????????????

  • For those of you who can study and understand this it is remarkable. It is not my own but it is from our maker, it is His word. I know it’s deep, but if you can learn.

  • RoN: Your calling us idiots?

    • By no means , Why would you ask such a silly thing?

  • Ron: Do you believe Christ would call us idiots?

  • RON: Please seek Psychological help for your mental Disorder, maybe your minister at your church?

  • Ron: Brenda told me you go to church, do you hold any positions in that church, because you really need to become associate pastor at your church!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL

  • Ron: you’ll never give up your bone, your not the sharing type of person to give up that bone, its just not you!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • You can have my bone , I always share.

  • Ron: being sick of your discussion is not called angry at any one. But please seek Psychological help for your mental disorders!

    • I get help every day pastor , The Lord is my doctor.

  • RON: If its your calling to solve it down our throasts, just do not address your blogs to Pastor Steven, Levi or TRACY ok, or that asking to much?

  • RON: the common-sense of your teachings is like a serial killer, they can not stop killing any one, as its a mental disease to them!

  • Ron: your like a 2 year old child, when you say yes the child say’s no. When you say no, the child say’s yes! Get the point?

    • Yell ! it not very sharp though. I just love you bunch of People. I’m glad to have you, any way. You can Hate me that’s okay, I’m going to love you no matter what you say. God bless you all, and by the way, I think post trib doctrine is still the right way. 🙂

  • Why do you people hate it, when I express my opinion? I thought this site was to discuss Bible and world events. What is it with you pretribbers? Why do you hate post tribbers? Can we not discuss with out malice. If I can destroy your joy that easy, then I’m wondering if you had any to start with. I have never seen so much hatred and anger in all the world. And you say I causing people to flee from this site? Reality Check.

  • I am less than Israel. If at all I am Israel (prince with God) it is only by the grace of my Father, and by the shedding of the blood of His Son for me. Hallelujah Amen. How I love to be His Israel and be a part of His Jerusalem. Praise the Lord my God.
    We want to hear what is exactly in the scriptures. We DO NOT want to hear the twisted version of it. If a Muslim comes and quotes scriptures and twists it and says that the God of Israel was a killing machine, would you agree? No, right? Wouldn’t you be angry for misusing the Holy Word of God? He would not understand about a just God. He will not understand His righteousness. He will just pick out some verses which tells about the judgment of God on the people. Could you deny those scriptures which tell about those deaths? No way. They are there. You know what the Muslim quoted is right. But we also know why the Lord God did it because there is something called as ‘understanding’ in it. Had He understood the mercy of our God, he would not have accused the God of Israel. Likewise, I am not angry for what you are quoting from the Bible. Let me tell you an instance. When you posted about the judgment of trumpets and vials, was I angry? No but I did disproved it. Now, instead of talking about it, you jump to the next thing of talking of 144k, the rapture and somehow you want to prove that the rapture occurs after the tribulation.
    My problem with most of you is that you don’t answer my questions and keep posting verses after verses and say you are posting scriptures and that we are angry about it. Does that makes sense? How could you behave so subtly? DC did the same thing until I had to hold on to one and only one point until he clarified it. When your theory you have believed in is disproved, you don’t want to talk about it further, and you want to jump to the next thing instead. Why is it so?

    The doctrine of the pre-trib rapture is not our doctrine. It is the doctrine of the Lord Jesus Christ and only because you don’t believe, facts (even if you say it is not a fact) don’t change.

    Why do you think pre-trib rapture is a theory full of comforts? Do you think that being awake all the time is an easy task? Ask a soldier who is at a border of a hostile country about being awake. He loses sleep and sometimes food. His heart pumps at a highest rate when there is a sense of some movement around. This is not out of fear but out of responsibility. In fact, post-tribulation could be more comfortable because you believe in all the proofs around you. The only problem that you will be having is about losing your body and suffering of this flesh and probably not your soul.

    You want to know what I (I don’t know about others) believe in a pre-trib rapture theory?
    Once the door is closed behind those 5 virgins and if I am not one of them, then I am lost forever in darkness. Because the words that would come out of the Bridegroom could be like a killing dagger “Verily I say unto you, I know you not”. Do you think that it is a light thing to be rejected at the end? Tell me is it easy now? There won’t be any time even to think to get ready. The only thing, if we are not ready, we will find is a closed door. This is our fear brother Ron. This fear is much much bigger than the fear of being killed on this earth and facing that beast. Secondly, if you think that we believe that every pre-trib rapture believer could be a part of this rapture then you are completely wrong. We believe, many pre-trib rapture believers will be left behind.
    Do not whine. We are not against you. We just want to tell you to STOP discussing about the rapture thing because none of us is going to change his/her mind. It is very deeply settled in our hearts (not in our minds) that the Lord is coming to take us home just before this evil falls on this earth. However, your continual posting about it, only shows that you want to flaunt your knowledge about it and on our side it looks twisted, no matter how honest you feel you are.

    According to me you are not wrong. I have already made it clear to you that there are some people who will go through the tribulation. This rapture is not for everyone but it is only for the Bride of Christ. The Bride of Christ comprises of the believers of the Lord who are blameless and spotless. Yes, the Lord has separated the believers according to their abilities of faith and that is why you find 7 different churches with different shortcomings and strengths. I cannot say which one of them is the Bride.

    If you think that we are believing in this ‘fairy tale’ because it feels good then you are wrong. Just as you have your convictions from the Word of God, we have ours as well, and in a way more than you. Because from the book of Genesis the plan of the Lord for the end time is displayed and that has been proven to us by His Holy Spirit through His Word. Please discard that false notion that we are just following this doctrine without giving any thought and so we are headed for hell. As for me, God is my witness right now as I write this post, that I have kept this issue before the Lord and prayed to Him if this doctrine is wrong then to correct me. But the more I prayed, the more I got the confirmation that this doctrine was correct.

    Sorry for the long post but it had to write it all. You too are a loving brother to me as much as any pre-trib rapture believer is. We differ in our doctrines of the end times, and let not that separate us. May the Lord lead us in His path. If I am wrong, let the good Lord pardon me right now and lead me to His path and if you are wrong then the Lord do the same. We all want to see the King in His glory.

  • See, I told you people that once that door is shut it is shut once and for all, Good point, brother, Amen! What about that , Tracy. Do you agree? I sure do. At least you have some understanding , brother. But I’m not sure about that Staying up 24/7 waiting on the rapture, My, no wonder you can’t think straight, man I got to have my sleep to think clearly. I sleep 8 to 10 hours a day. At least you are faithful to your believes, God bless you for that.

    • Ron,
      I agree and I am ready, even if it’s today. My mission is to help others open their hearts and minds to accept our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ before it’s too late. Truly open your hearts and minds, and ask Jesus into your heart, repent of your old ways, accept His free gift by grace, thru faith, and believing you shall receive. Follow His Word and trust in Him always. He will direct your paths.
      God Bless You All

  • That is my Goal also, for indeed that is what I have, done also. You are accepted as my family and to almost all post tribber, also. The ones that would condemn you for your beliefs on pretrib, I would not worry to much about they are wrong to begin with. But it always seems you pretribber for the most part, condemn us post tribbers. I have never seen NTEB condemn anyone, He must be a true child of God to tolerate all this baffling and not get involved. I admire him for that. God bless you, Tracy.

  • Levi

    Israeli president Shimon Peres invites pope Francis to Israel

  • Levi

    NTEB doesn’t even condemn abusers here. So I have nothing to say about the NTEB. I don’t mean that they should begin condemning the post tribbers. Everything goes well until you not only contradict the doctrine of the pre trib rapture but also mock it in a way to insult people for believing. This is where things go off handle. There are many things we don’t agree about each other but those don’t make much problem, because this site is much about pre trib rapture and people come to find like minded believers but they are surely surprised to find not only the post trib rapture believers but also pre tribbers being mocked. This unfair way makes a pre tribber more aggressive. I hope most have experienced this. Let pre tribber talk about his doctrine and the post tribber about his without insulting each other saying ‘that’s a fairy tale’ or ‘they are blind. They don’t see it’ and so on

  • Okay , but I still would like to see that chronological order study from you. I would be delighted to read it as I’m sure Tracy and Pastor would, too. You seem to know the Bible pretty good, brother, I will even help you, if you need it. But I’m sure it would be a good one. Pray about it any way. God Bless you, Brother. I pray the best for you. Let us have peace between us. It should not be that we have things between us, when we stand before God. Forgive my insults. Let us be brothers.

  • Sorry there , Levi, that was me , Brenda forgot to change her name back.

  • Levi

    It is only by the grace of God that I understand the Word of God. In that case wouldn’t it be foolish even to think of CHANGING the order of the Bible? I have not even thought of attempting it, leave alone even doing it. I take the Word of God as it is. I cannot change the order esp. the book of revelation which is the vision of one man and at one time. This book has a perfect beginning and a perfect end. And of course the middle part is in perfect order. God bless you bro Ron. How good and pleasant it is for brethren to dwell in unity.

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  • STL

    Sideways: So you believe that the words in the Bible are no good. So why the intested in the end times? Because end time prophecies comes from the Scriptures of the Bible. Your a confused child!

  • STL

    Sideways: if there no God, why state your opinion on this Christian web site?

  • STL

    Sideways: If there is no God, then whats the point of life to you, so basically your Atheiest?

  • STL

    Sideways: If you do not believe in Jesuis, why are you wasting your time posting here? Don’t you have something better to do?

  • STL

    SUEZ: We have another Atheiest as of Sideways!

  • What’s up colleagues, pleasant article and pleasant arguments commented here, I am really enjoying by these.

  • I pay a visit every day some websites and blogs to read content,
    except this website presents feature based posts.

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