Watch False Teacher Heidi Baker Imparting Demons And Casting Spells At Bethel Church

Notice how she uses repetitive phrases combined with repetitive music to put people into a trance-like state. Phrases like "receive the anointing", "ten times", "giving away" are repeated endlessly, this is right out of the cult's playbook. Watch the video and see people writhing in pain on the floor, screaming out in pain, this is what passes for a "church service" in the Prosperity Movement".

Demonic frauds like Heidi Baker are not only after your wallet, they are after your soul as well.

“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” 1 John 4:1 (KJV)

Heidi Baker is a rising star in the Prosperity Movement, and she is connected with Bethel Church in Redding, California. She has a global ministry that takes in millions and millions of dollars every year and like most Prosperity Gospel performers, she lives the good life. And as this video will prove beyond the shadow of any lingering doubt, she is a portal for demons looking for places to land. They are landing in bunches at Bethel Church.

This is how people fall for this junk:

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” 2 Timothy 4:3,4 (KJV)

Heidi Baker’s demonic impartations at Bethel Church:

GRAPHIC WARNING: This video, from a spiritual perspective, is highly disturbing and is not recommended for children to watch. Please view with caution. 

Notice how she uses repetitive phrases combined with repetitive music to put people into a trance-like state. Phrases like “receive the anointing”, “ten times”, “giving away” are repeated endlessly, this is right out of the cult’s playbook. In the middle of her demonic, psychic ramblings, she easily slips in admonitions for the people to “be generous with their gifts”, meaning to empty your wallet in the plate when it comes around. This woman is not just crazy, she is demon possessed. At one point she starts repeating the word “legacy” over and over again while directing her worshippers to “put crowns on people’s head” and to “impart the anointing”. This is what it looks like when the Devil is in the Church.

Watch the video and see people writhing in pain on the floor, screaming out in pain, this is what passes for a “church service” in the Prosperity Movement”.

But demonic frauds like Heidi Baker are not only after your wallet, they are after your soul as well. The only “anointing” you will get by attending a Heidi Baker ‘worship’ service is the anointing of Satan with the arrival of his demons as you invite them to come in.

Baker’s ministry, called IRIS Global, is a reference to the all-seeing Eye of Horus and a gateway to the demonic disguised as a “children’s charity”. In 1998, she joined the Bethel School Of Supernatural Ministry to “equip and deploy revivalists who passionately pursue worldwide transformation”.

Heidi Baker rolling on the ground, speaking nonsense:

Watch and listen Heidi Baker under the control of demons bent on tormenting her, as the church congregation cheers her wildly.

Stay far away from Heidi Baker, unless you are looking to catch one of the demons she enjoys casting so much. And stay far away from this Laodicean mess at Bethel Church. This is not New Testament Christianity, and this is not Bible doctrine.

“And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” Revelation 18:4 (KJV)


NTEB is run by end times author and editor-in-chief Geoffrey Grider. Geoffrey runs a successful web design company, and is a full-time minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. In addition to running NOW THE END BEGINS, he has a dynamic street preaching outreach and tract ministry team in Saint Augustine, FL.

  • Skywatcher

    What can one really say after watching such a hellish performance as all that! I see hoards of people acting in ways that contradict the Scripture: “Let all things be done decently and in order.”

    Bethel Church…the HOUSE OF GOD…how ironic is that! God’s no more near that den of demons than a Muslim is near a pig slaughterhouse!

    There is soooo much wrong that is exposed in this video composition. I feel bad for that poor young man who was being ravaged by demons and she didn’t even know he had one because she imparted it to her. For someone to believe this jerking, gyrating, screaming out, etc. is of God has something seriously wrong with them and their understanding of God and His Word!

    I saw one of the religious leaders laying on the floor, under some kind of power, looking around to see if others were looking at him! He was attention seeking, as most were.

    Kenneth Copeland looked like something right out of a sci-fi dirt devil movie! Mouth wide open in a horrible gape; I almost expected to see him morph into a snake-like creature, which would NOT have surprised me in the least! I recognized the demon in him many years ago; I can hardly stand to look at the fool.

    Summation: the screams and hollering of these mobs will be greatly amplified in the lake of fire. I wonder if the Amplified “bible” will be a source of comfort to them! So sad. Very, very sad that people allow themselves to be deceived in such a manner.

    Thank you, Geoffrey for catching us up to speed, as to what is going on in other assemblies, that we are so blessed NOT to be a part of!

    • Jam

      Jesus n his disciples cast out evil spirits but this woman imparts them! What a shame n reproach on the Lord who gives us a spirit of wisdom n understanding.

      • Skywatcher

        Jam, I couldn’t agree with you more! This is another prayer project that we need to seriously address. Look at how many of these poor souls who have been misled, who are going to Hell in the very near future, if the Holy Spirit doesn’t intervene in their lives. As we can see from some commentators on here, they’re as hard to crack as any other cult member is. God bless you!

        • Brett

          Apparently, you have never been baptised in the Holy Spirit or speak in tongues. I’ll pray for you. David Hogan has been to 5 continents and has been out in hundreds of areas where they have never heard the gospel. He was once an unbeliever like you, not filled with the Holy Ghost. He was baptised in the Spirit and has been out on mission fileds for almost 45 years now and has seen every miracle….and has raised 32 from the dead, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
          He says that OFTEN, you cannot tell if a person is manifesting demons, or it is the Holy Spirit. It’s true! Yes, the spirit brings peace, joy, truth, etc…but when a person is rolling around laughing, it may look like a demon, but it IS the Holy Spirit. BEeen in several places where that happens. and a few times, I knew the person that was experienincing that…even in the bible, it says that some people fell in a trance..under the power of GOD! Not satan.
          I am sure if you saw a person in a trance, you would deduce it was Satan…you have much to learn. Praying for a spirit of revelation to come to you! Oh, and Gold dust? Have had it on me over 100 times now…most of the time when I am praising God! He’s good and reveals His glory. (not the same as sharing His glory, which HE does not)

          • Skywatcher

            Well, Brett, I’d have to strongly disagree with you! I’m definitely not an “unbeliever” as you’ve incorrectly tagged me! As a former Pentecostal Bible college graduate, going out into fulltime ministry, we could not get our pastoral license until we were baptized with the Holy Ghost, evidenced by the speaking in tongues. Gotcha there, buddy!

            If David Hogan cannot discern between a demon or the Holy Spirit, he has some mighty serious issues. They are as different as night and day…when it’s the real Holy Spirit and not the spirit of Kundalini, hijacked from Hinduism.

            Brother, my Pentecostal pastor taught us many years ago, “If it’s not in God’s Word, it aint God’s Word, and is to be avoided at all costs!” Way back in the 70’s, our Pentecostal pastors were strongly warning their congregations against this very same display of spirituality! Hmmm…they were the most devoted, holy, and sincere men of God I have ever met; very scarce today, where anything from counterfeit bibles and spirits are welcome in the House of God. Very sad. For the younger folk like yourselves, who’ve not known the real “thing”, it’s very easy to be duped. Sad, to say.

          • Edwitness

            The example you cite from the bible does not happen during corporate worship. It is always a singular event involving an individual. Otherwise it is just mass confusion as it is in the ‘services’ you say are of God. 1stCor.14:33

        • Brett

          David Hogan has the spirit of discernment and can discern between spirits. He said sometimes a demon can manifest where it can look like it could be the spirit of God until he encounters the person under the influence.
          Peter, Paul and others fell into trances (acts 10, 11, 22) and I am sure it may not have looked like the spirit of God on them…but I it appears you would know. Just like when Jesus preached “you must eat of my flesh and drink of my blood” you would have known He was the Son of God, because Jesus saying that, obvioulsy it sounds exactly what God
          would say. Duped? Young? I am in my 50’s and led many to the Lord, often with words of knowledge and one laying on of hands. Sad that you don’t know who David Hogan is.

          • Skywatcher

            Brett, I don’t mean to be mean spirited or nasty, and I hope you haven’t been taking my replies as such. I made a mistake by thinking you might be in your 20’s or 30’s. I was wrong, and for that, I’m sorry. However, you have gotten off topic. We’re talking about what happened to this young man in the video. That, my friend, was no trance! That cannot be equated with Paul or Peter’s experiences.

            I don’t need to know David Hogan; I don’t need to know Billy Graham; I don’t need to know Mickey Mouse (all the same); I only need to know Jesus Christ and what He (the Word) teaches us through the same. No amount of bickerin’ back and forth is going to convince me that what I witnessed was of God. I’m not sorry for having to say that.

            There comes a time when genuine born again God-fearing children of God MUST stand up for God and His Word alone, and not for what people may rightly or wrongly perceive to be “moves of God”. That doesn’t cut it for Christ, and it doesn’t cut it for me. As I’ve said before, Mt. 7: 20-23 strongly applies here.

            I leave you with this challenge: “Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.” James 4: 17

            To stay where such actions are going on is in direct contravention to God’s Holy Word. Now, you be the judge and the executor. I won’t be discussing this any further with you.

          • Allie

            Brett, my husband loves hearing David Hogan minister. 🙂 It’s amazing what God’s doing through him for people who are otherwise in reached by the gospel!

        • Allie

          Have you done any research about Heidi Baker’s life? Have you read her books? Have you been to any of her churches, schools, or children’s homes, clinics, wells, etc. in Mozambique?!?

          Her life shows the fruit of the Spirit. And she does not live “the good life” as implied. She lives with the poorest of the poor and most of her missionaries who help her are volunteers. Iris stands for the flower not some demonic god.

          You have no idea what you are talking about. One video that you are uncomfortable with and you’ve concluded all this about her wrongly. Smh

          • Allie,

            I have been in the presence of Christ, All GLORY GOES TO JESUS ALONE! I have seen people possessed by demons, and I have seen people baptized by the Holy Spirit. They spoke in tongues, healed, and other thing in the presence of God.

            But what I just witnessed, is a demon who entered that boy. When you are touched by the Holy Spirit, it is a wondrous presence, one where you are communicating with God.

            When you are touched by satan, you writhe and scream on the ground as if the heat of hell is touching you.

            I pray in JESUS NAME that many realize that Heidi Baker is a FALSE teacher, and that all she does is the work of Satan.

            Do not forget: 2 Corinthians 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

    • Patrice

      I find it very hard to look at Kenneth Copeland. His eyes are frightening…it is almost like looking into the eyes of a devil and when he begins opening his mouth and making strange sounds he for sure is a devil incarnate. That people actually consider him a man of God is incomprehensible.

      • Skywatcher

        Patrice, I saw that in him a long time ago; he reminds me of a Nephilim for some reason! There are two people that I could not look at on Hellevision (Copeland and Obama). I’d have to rush to shut the thing off. I know that sounds foolish, childish, and whatever to some, but each time I’d see them or hear their voice, the Spirit within me would become quenched and I’d have to do it, no matter if I was interested in what they were saying or not!

        Like you, years ago, I could never imagine how there could be a “falling away” from the faith! It’s no longer a mystery, unfortunately.

        Seeing these things happening all around us should cause us to be more watchful for our Lord, anxiously awaiting His return for us! God bless you, as you watch and wait with patience and endurance!

    • The Maaser Rishon room

      O Lord, Be Thou Near To Us

      Whenever we're afraid Lord, tested we will trust in you, hidden your word in our hearts that we sin not against you. Daily we lift us holy hands to you as our covenant and trust, stand upon the promises you hath for us. Never are we hopeless, for God is for us, be near us to keep us near the Cross Jesus Lord our divine bargain, come rescue us, made vain is the help of man, IJN Amen ...Apb, The RAM

    • Randle Taylor


      Jesus’ Claims About Himself

      48The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”

      49“I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”

      52At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

      54Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

      57“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

      58“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

      • Skywatcher

        Randle Taylor, you typed Scripture out beautifully but didn’t make a personal comment. Those Scriptures represent two sides. You said nothing, so does that mean you’re all for this Heinous Heidi?

    • Randle Taylor

      Jesus’ Claims About Himself

      John 8:48 The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”

      49“I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”

      52At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

      54Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

      57“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

      58“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

    • Peggy

      I believe this has it backward. I was at the Brownsville revival many times for years, and had never seen anything like it. It took some time, but I realized God was way bigger and not in a box like I thought. These things don’t go against God’s Word, and I am a very strong believer. The pastor from the revival was in this video. I had been prayed for many times, but had not been slain in the spirit, until I was standing with people all around layed out. I hear the pastor praying for people behind me and kind of got scared. He came to me, and without me saying anything, he said don’t be afraid. He never touched me, and I fell out while he caught my hands and gently let me down. What an amazing time with God I had. The shaking, laughing, etc, are very real, it’s just not common. Laughter is healing, and sometimes it’s a way God uses to heal.

      People come to these meetings with all kinds of baggage, experiences, and demonic spirits. Some people do fake it, maybe because they just don’t understand, or whatever reasons. There were so many different manifestations I was a part of, but I knew God was there without a doubt. Yes, Satan was there in many ways too, but he is in probably every church. He can act very reserved as well. It can be hard not to judge these kinds of things as being satanic, but just remember that Satan always tries to mimic God. That’s why we have to test the spirits. That young man already had a demonic spirit, but when Holy Spirit touched him, the evil spirit went crazy in him. Bill knew this, so he had the guys get him and move him to a place where they could help get it out and get him free. We have to be careful not to judge what we don’t understand.

      • Skywatcher

        Hi Peggy!

        I was once a Pentecostal pastor, so the moving of the Holy Spirit is not foreign to me. What I witnessed here was NOT of the Holy Spirit. If this young man had a demon in him prior to Ms. Baker’s touching him, she should’ve cast it out, not merely walked by and left him at the mercy of the thing(s).

        Furthermore, there is no evidence in the Word for being “slain in the Spirit”. If there is, I’d like you to show me, please. Also, if this was really of the Holy Spirit, back-catchers would not be necessary. God will not willingly hurt His own.

        I don’t doubt your experience; I doubt the source. Nowhere in Scripture is there any evidence of Holy laughter, shaking, etc. These are manifestations of the Kundalini spirit of Hinduism. I know; it made its way into my home church one time.

        We have to be careful to judge all things against the Word of God; it alone is the final and absolute authority. If it’s not in there, it ain’t of God.

    • Peggy

      I believe this has it backward. I was at the Brownsville revival many times for years, and had never seen anything like it. It took some time, but I realized God was way bigger and not in a box like I thought. These things don’t go against God’s Word, and I am a very strong believer. The pastor from the revival was in this video. I had been prayed for many times, but had not been slain in the spirit, until I was standing with people all around layed out. I hear the pastor praying for people behind me and kind of got scared. He came to me, and without me saying anything, he said don’t be afraid. He never touched me, and I fell out while he caught my hands and gently let me down. What an amazing time with God I had. The shaking, laughing, etc, are very real, it’s just not common. Laughter is healing, and sometimes it’s a way God uses to heal.

      People come to these meetings with all kinds of baggage, experiences, and demonic spirits. Some people do fake it, maybe because they just don’t understand, or whatever reasons. There were so many different manifestations I was a part of, but I knew God was there without a doubt. Yes, Satan was there in many ways too, but he is in probably every church. He can act very reserved as well. It can be hard not to judge these kinds of things as being satanic, but just remember that Satan always tries to mimic God. That’s why we have to test the spirits. That young man already had a demonic spirit, but when Holy Spirit touched him, the evil spirit went crazy in him. Bill knew this, so he had the guys get him and move him to a place where they could help get it out and get him free. We have to be careful not to judge what we don’t understand. Holy Spirit will lead us into ALL truth!

      • Edwitness

        The problem in your thinking is that it seems you don’t know that the truth the Holy Spirit guides us in never ever contradicts the scriptures we have in the Bible. Not only is there no precedence for this so-called ‘move of the Spirit’ found in the Bible, it is mass confusion. 1stCor.14:33 And our God is not a God of confusion. 1stCor.14:33 I’m afraid you are the one who has it backwards. I hope you can hear God’s voice when He confirms this with you from His word. A “strong believer” should know better.

  • Connor61

    What a disgusting woman, she should be put in jail for harming people like that.

    • Heidi is the real thing. She is about the heart and so is Jesus. She doesnt live in a mansion, she has given her life to the missions. She has been beaten countless times and kept right on what God had her do in learning love by saving these children. She is the real thing. I am in no church and God has called us out of Babylon Religion and that includes all religious organizations. A relationship with Christ involves a relationship with the HOly Spirit that will heal our hearts and deliver us from evil spirits. In this video Heidi was not doing a mantra but sometimes the Holy Spirit will have us repeat someting as our words are a sword the Kingdom of light and anointing and was imparting an anoiting to release each ones gifts. They were not hurting. I have been slain in the spirit in the past and the Lord spoke to my spirit that he was healing my heart. God has healed me of PtSD, PMDD, Severe Depression and much more. We can’t put God in a box and it is all biblical. You have mixed things on this video to make her look bad. You have been used by the accurser of the brothren. Even if the organization turns out to be bad…this womans life is a testimony of of love. She has grown in Christs image and she has been a been a vessel of God’s love and healing to many. We will all have to come out of systems and organizations in this hour and I’m sure God will set that up and she will follow Jesus. Make sure that on your knees you seek God for He direction. You may need to repent for being used by the accuser of the brothern.

      • matt

        Vain repetitions are Biblically spoken against; you need to study from the side of not trusting her. Weigh each side; are you not to test all spirits with discernment? If she contradicts God’s word; no amount of explanation will override it. She is a false prophet; just consider that and run through your head what the Word says and you will see.

  • Mario

    It’s a mockery of Jesus and these churches are not, but like you said house of demons!! It’s a trap, so far away from the truth and the gospel of Jesus Christ!! What is annoying is the fact that so many people are falling into that trap of prosperity and lying wonders!!

  • Connor61

    That peroxide haired boy looked like he went on an lsd trip to hell and back again. Hope hes not scarred for life

    • Skywatcher

      Connor 61, I’m afraid he’s more than scarred for life! He destined to Hell if he doesn’t get delivered of that demon and right with Jesus! That’s what false doctrines out of counterfeit bibles do for folk…”doctrines of devils” and demon possession, I Tim. 4: 1. Without the Prince of Peace residing within, these people are easy hosts.

    • Leonard

      Was thinking the same thing. Odd, no one called paramedics, when the kid was so obviously suffering…

  • Heya i’m for the primary time here. I came across
    this board and I find It really useful & it helped me out a
    lot. I’m hoping to provide something back and help others like you aided me.

    • Skywatcher

      Welcome on board, Jack! Brace yourself, because sometimes we get a little lively and feisty! 🙂 God bless you!

    • Guest

      Better be careful. Some real loons can show up here. You’ll see comments from people who believe the pre-trib doctrine is satanic (which makes no sense. Would the devil endorse a doctrine that encourages people to give their life to Christ and to live in a way that they wouldn’t be embarrassed when Christ suddenly comes for us?). You’ll see anti-Semites. You’ll see some real pompous wind bags who think they know Scripture better than anyone when in all actuality they really don’t. You’ll see crazy conspiracy theories and unfortunately, a serious lack of gentleness in some comments. Truth can be delivered gently without watering things down or insulting and brow-beating people.

      • Skywatcher

        Yeah, you’re right, Guest; it’s called waging spiritual warfare, something serious Bible-believing/practicing Christians are supposed to do!

        I see you were really quick to attempt to start an online fight by bringing up the Pre-Trib. rapture, which has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but which I do strongly support!

        Not ALL is conspiracy “theory”, when the facts are there for all to see; it’s then known as a conspiracy, recognized by the law courts. Thanks, for your input.

      • Leonard

        True–and we’ve had our eyes on you for some time now, guest…


    “17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
    18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
    19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
    20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
    21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
    22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
    23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
    24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
    25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
    26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
    27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.”
    JOHN 5

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  • MG

    Many Scriptures come to mind when I hear/read about women of this nature. Sad thing is, she is just one of many. Honestly, until it was posted here, I’d never heard of the woman. I try to stay as far away from TV preachers (especially women who preach, breaking God’s commandment not to teach), and a might further from the local churches; they too have followed the world to destruction. Oh I’m sure there are good churches, but most have poor pastors. 2 Tim 3:6 “For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,…” 1 Tim 2:12 “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. ” Clearly not just some, but all women on TV, posing as ministers, are nothing more than ministers of false gospels and possibly agents of the devil. Discernment must be used however, the ones I’ve heard, are quite the feminist type…rebellious, and perverting the message of hope- nothing more than distractions for those seeking truth and God.

    2 Cor 11:14 “And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”

    One more thing, not attacking women, but I wonder why none of them minister against themselves using what Paul spoke about? Seems to me, if a women is prancing around on stage, then she is one, out of line, and two- extremely rebellious; moving only to justify their stance or position in the church. It’s unlikely that we would see or hear any humility from these “silly” and possibly demonic deceivers.

  • sarah tennessee

    May the Holy Spirit lead His people to discern all spirits. Would that God step down into our highways and byways and supernaturally call His people back unto Himself. Release unto us the gift of Godly sorrow leading to repentance and unto salvation. Forgive them Father for they know what they do. They are as sheep led to a slaughter with no Good Shepherd to lead them back to You.



    • Edwitness

      Valerie Gould,
      Please try to keep the emotions out of it and please consider the following?

      When you say that Brownsville was an “outpouring of God”, and back it up with the fact that you “went to that revival 8 times”, instead of supporting your belief with the scriptural evidence that would prove your claim, it is clear that your belief is based solely on subjective experience and not the word of God. Please consider this contrasting statement;

      “Pensacola practices, such as jerking spasmodically, laughing uncontrollably, and falling backward into trance states, are conspicuous by their absence in the ministry of Jesus Christ and the apostles. Conversely, they are commonplace in the world of the occult. Peter warned believers to be wary of just such pagan practices. He admonished believers to “be clear-minded and self-controlled” (1 Pet. 4:7).”

      And does this sound to you like the move of the Holy Spirit one would find in the pages of the New Testament?

      “In a widely used promotional video some of the baptized jerk so violently that baptizers can no longer control their behavior. In one clip the subject shakes so severely that someone is actually kicked in the face.33 Physical danger is part and parcel of the process. Pensacola leaders point out that “the power of God falls during the Friday night water baptisms, and sometimes even the workers are overcome by the Spirit and have to be carried out of the water.”34 Ironically, a word of caution has come from the Brownsville pulpit about not sitting too close to other people during the time of ministry out of concern that someone under the influence of a manifestation might injure nearby worshipers.35”
      (34Michael Brown, “Revival in Brownsville?” Destiny Image Digest, Winter 1997, 36.35E.g., Brownsville Assembly of God, Sunday evening service, 16 March 1997, personal eyewitness testimony of Hank Hanegraaff.) Hank made the prior contrasting statement as well.

      John baptized Jesus. Arguably the most spiritual baptism ever performed. Was there any evidence of the kind of manifestations Brownsville exhibits? No! Jesus didn’t ‘fall out under the power’. He did not shake uncontrollably. There were no animal sounds or writhing on the ground.

      I hope you will find your way to the clear teachings of the Bible, which will in turn free you from your need for subjective religious experience, and fill you with God’s love. Rom.5:3-5.
      When all is said and done, religious experience is exactly what the AC uses to deceive all those who do not love the truth. “…with all power and signs and lying wonders.” 2ndThes.2:8-12.

      • Sola scriptura

        Edwitness – Good job. Weild that sword that is the word in truth, in love and in power. Jesus didn’t come to bring peace but a sword and that sword is cutting away true biblical Christianity from the wicked, but sweet tasting practices of false Christianity. The road is very narrow…and few find it.

        • Edwitness

          Thank you Sola Scriptura,
          I read the link you gave in your other comment. All I can say is preach it brother. What a great witness to the fact that God clearly warned us of this day, and that He loves us enough to keep us from being deceived if we will follow Him with all of our heart.


      • Andrea

        Edwitness, I stumbled upon this site by a site I normally go to and was a nice surprise to see you commenting. I know of you because of another site Shoebats. But we won’t go there… Lol anyways, I find the comments on this site as a breath of fresh air and I enjoyed a lot of the others comments. I found out of the site by the article of Francis in front of the queen of heaven as I call her. For me it is nice to see people quote scripture and not a catechism. And to go to Jesus to confess their sins. The last straw was when I read a regular on that site who said she can’t pray to God but has to go to a priest she may hear wrong.

        • Skywatcher

          Forgive me, Andrea and Edwitness, for eavesdropping, but I just wanted to say, Hi there, Andrea, and welcome aboard! If you’re looking for more truth from God’s Word, this is the place to find it, and Edwitness definitely knows the Word! God bless you both!

          • andrea

            Thank you Skywatcher for your kind words and eavesdrop anytime you want. Lol yes Edwitness does know the word. God bless you as well.

          • Andrea

            I apologize if something else prints said I had duplicate not sure how the system works. That said thanks Skywatcher. Eavesdrop anytime.

        • Edwitness

          Welcome. I’m glad you were able to find Geoffrey’s site. It is indeed a breath of fresh air when compared to sites that would claim that those who call themselves born again are heretics. And the Bible is relegated to a non issue when determining theological matters. Geoffrey is a great witness for the truth. KJV Bible based all the way. You could not have done better for real Christian fellowship and dialogue.

          As always, Blessings:-}

          • andrea

            Thank you Edwitness I agree with everything you said.

        • Edwitness

          I was thinking about you lately and noticed I hadn’t seen you here in a while. As I was going through this comment section looking for the comment I was responding to I found your name.I hope all is well. You are a welcome voice here as we share our ideas and understandings God has shared with each of us.
          In His grace,
          Your brother Edwitness

      • Skywatcher

        Brother Ed, that was a mighty strong and powerful word from the Lord, that needed to be spoken! You did some really great research, and for that, I’m indebted to you. I knew NOTHING about this Brownsville Revival until now. It’s too bad, all these millions of lives are being wasted when they could have the real “thing”, and be turning the world upside down for Jesus!

        God bless you, Bro! Keep up the great work of standing up for Jesus, ye soldier of the cross!

        • Edwitness

          Thank you Skywatcher,
          As usual you are very gracious. And thanks for welcoming Andrea to the family here. I saw in another post where you referred to my having corrected something you had written, but for the life of me I can’t think of what it was. When I forget things, which happens more often these days, I have come to the conclusion that it must not have been that important in the first place.

          And Hank Hanegraaff, though he is a preterist, is a treasure regarding the subject of the word of faith teachers and the counterfeit revival. I have a friend that I have been sharing with for years who listens to and believes those charlatans. He won’t even listen to or read the material Hank produces that exposes them using their own words. It’s very difficult to get through once they have drank the cool aid. Prayer. That is the key.

          God bless you brother

    • Oh REALLY?? So you are saying that the HERESY of “holy laughter” is from the Lord? It is not! You are saying that the appearing of the “gold teeth” is from the Lord? It is not! Brownsville was an outpouring of Satan, it had nothing to do with the Holy Spirit.

    • Leonard

      And how many times did you hear Heidi mention the name “Jesus” in the video above? That was supposed to be a “Christian” event?

    • spirit_fire

      The greatest America has ever had?? Lol. You obviously haven’t studied much. Watch Roberts Liardon’s series about God’s generals. Brownsville may have had some genuine moves of God I do not know, sometimes God does work amongst chaos because he loves people, but I do know Kundalini demons were there in mass moving among the people. Any time you see bizarre twitches, jerks, shaking of the head back and forth and moving around like animals that is NOT the Holy Ghost.

      How dare I say these things? Well I’ve seen numerous people have to undergo deliverance from Kundalini specifically related to the Brownsville revival. I’ve watched the actual deliverance sessions, and I am a deliverance minister myself. Sorry but it’s true. People have no discernment nowadays, they act like “if it’s supernatural, it’s all God!” Not true at all. Satan loves to muddy the waters, bring confusion and destroy and he can do it very effectively amongst the naïve that have no discernment.

      • Skywatcher

        spirit_fire, I don’t know if you’re my brother or sister in Christ, but you preach it! That was a very good reply! What amazes me these days, is that so many in leadership, who claim to be led by the Holy Spirit, slip up in some mighty serious ways! They’re not catching 1/3 of Satan’s little subtleties within the body, and when they do, they “poo-poo” them away! One of the ways they’re messing up is by using counterfeit bibles, and promoting the same to their flocks!

        Thank you, for that rich word! God bless you!

  • Sola Scriptura

    Solid stuff. The more of this the better. At the end of the article linked below, I have another video where she puts a demon in a guy and he rolls around on the floor like he’s on fire. Jesus didn’t put those in…he cast them out and sent them to hell. I wrote the below in response to two of my very best friends who chose the wickedness of these feel-good demonic manifestations over the truth of the eternal word. It didn’t help because the hold these false charasmstic leaders have on my friends and their wives, is impossible to break – yet with God all things are possible.

  • God will send a strong delusion…

    More End Time News At:

  • finnigansmom

    I just moved up to Redding area and recently became aware of this. I have watched a couple dozen videos of their speakers, Their Jesus Culture music group and it breaks my heart ! I had four different groups of contractors work on my home who were from this ministry. They all did nice work and were wonderful people. I wonder if they truly know what is going on here.. Some are so desperate that they fall for this false worship. Please Please Please all pray, They are taking in thousands of kids a year at their school



    “These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

    2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

    3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.”

    John 16

  • Char

    Pretty creepy stuff! I think I mentioned on this site before that Copeland had scary eyes that look like they would glow in the dark. I never heard of her or saw her on any TV show either. I never heard of Bill Johnson either. I guess that’s a good thing. God must be throwing up when he sees these displays of demonic nature. Poor souls that are in the congregation or should I call it audience. It’s the blind leading the blind and they will all fall into the ditch! Lord Jesus come quickly! It’s unbelievable and very sad that this many people actually think when they leave these services that they have been blessed by God and then they come back for more! I really feel sorry for that young blonde fella! He’s so in the dark! He might have been a new Christian and now look where he is. I skipped some of it cuz I couldn’t stand to hear her babbling, but I didn’t hear any scriptures in the parts that I watched, just her mantras. She was looking at the Bible so I was waiting to hear a scripture, but never did. I must’ve missed that part.

    • Howdy Char, BuffaloBilly here. Nice to see you on this site. Here is a list of some of the apostates that are ravaging the True Church: Brian McLaren, Andy Stanley, Richard Cizik, Phyllis Tickle, Lief Anderson, Tony Campolo, Jay Baker, Joel O’steen, Rick Warren, Carl Medearis, Chris Seah, Doug Pagitt, Bill and Lynn Hybels, C. Peter Wagner, Rob Bell, John Ordberg,Kathryn Jefloris Kenneth Copeland, and sadly–Benny Hinn Pat Robertson, the TBN crowd and the teachings of Robert Schuler. There are a mess more in my hometown, but (hopefully ) y’all will never hear of them. That’s a long list and I am sure as a plastic frog fools a largemouth bass–there are hundreds more.
      Some of their dangerous teachings are: they reject the authority of the scriptures–replaced with a gospel of relativism; they discount the sacrifices of Our SAVIOR on the cross and the triumph of the resurrection; they believe in a collective salvation; They’ll say stuff like–‘let’s not argue about the Bible, let’s just focus on JESUS. This is especially dangerous because it allow s false doctrine to be injected into Biblical doctrine; they abandon the doctrines of faith; they over emphasize social justice; they embrace hyper-environmentalism, they adhere and teach political correctness about homosexuality; They employ elements of mysticism: yoga, meditating, contemplative prayer,centering, altered states of consciousness, chanting and mantras; They assault the person because they can’t refute the message; They blur the lines of other religions, their doctrines, practices and beliefs (chrislam); and they strongly promote replacement theology. And they surely avoid and deny the power of prophecy. Hope all this helps. We need to avoid all teachings, books, dvds, and anything else that issues from these heretical “wolves in sheeps’ clothing”. Blessings to you all…BuffaloBilly PS I am still lifting up yours and Ky’s young’uns in prayer–haven’t forgotten 🙂

      • Skywatcher

        Hey there, BuffaloBilly, the plastic frog slinger, and Char! Thanks, for that very enlightening, post BB! As I was reading through the list of names, it came to my mind that there are very few if ANY of these Kundalini Klowns that ever had a formal Bible College training! They brag about being a student of the “School of the Holy Ghost”, but from all appearances, they have a different “Holy Ghost” than we do!

        As a former Bible College graduate of many years ago, when one could get a good, strong and Conservative Bible education, we had to KNOW doctrine, apologetics, and a whole host of subjects that most congregants never heard of, but enjoyed in the pew! We had to know it well enough to be examined on it and pass! We had to know about Church History, which these clowns do not, therefore, it is repeating itself when they pledge allegiance to the sock puppet pope. They are lacking serious education in Christology, Eschatology, and so many other “ologies” of God’s Word, that it renders them pitiful, deceived, blind, and ignorant of those tools they need for solid Christian ministry! Jesus called them the “blind leading the blind”.

        Here are a few more to add to the list: Joyce Meyer. Dr. David Jeremiah, Dr. John MacArthur, Dr. Charles Stanley, Dr. James Dobson, Billy Graham, Chuck Swindoll, and ALL others who use counterfeit bibles are part of this unholy clan of clandestine preachers, teachers, and screechers! I know you both know this, but I put it out there to help some other poor unsuspecting souls. We are in the very last battle for God’s Word that we will ever have to fight, and by the power of Almighty God, we are going to do all we can to bring honor, glory, and praise to His name!

        God bless y’as, and may the bass grow BIG this year! 🙂

      • Patrice

        While you list a good number, there are many more out there that are out there such as Steve Furtick, Dave Morris, Jentezen Franklin, Beth Moore, Kay Arthur, Mark Driscoll and also some emergent pastors in our nearby cities and towns that will not make the big news but they are packing in the people with itching ears. I made a list one time of all the apostates out there and found myself adding more and more as I began to research these emergent, seeker-friendly type cults posing as “christian”. I could never understand that verse “…where many of the elect will fall …”. Now I understand…the road is wide for these guys and gals preching prosperity etc. The road is narrow for those who study KJV and pray for discernment.

  • Jesus

    Just goes to show, that the community at large is right and that Bethel Church is just another cult


    “7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

    8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

    9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.”
    Revelation 8

    Researchers have long known that solar activity and cosmic rays have a yin-yang relationship. As solar activity declines, cosmic rays intensify. Lately, solar activity has been very low indeed. Are cosmic rays responding? The answer is “yes.” and the students of Earth to Sky Calculus have been using helium balloons to monitor cosmic rays in the stratosphere. Their latest flight on Feb. 16th measured the highest values yet:

    The data show that cosmic rays in the mid-latitude stratosphere now are approximately 12% stronger than they were one year ago.

    Cosmic rays, which are accelerated toward Earth by distant supernova explosions and other violent events, are an important form of space weather. They can seed clouds, trigger lightning, and penetrate commercial airplanes. Furthermore, there are studies linking cosmic rays with cardiac arrhythmias and sudden cardiac death in the general population. Among patients who have an implanted cardioverter – defibrillator (ICD), the aggregate number of life-saving shocks appears to be correlated with the number of cosmic rays reaching the ground. References: #1, #2, #3, #4.

    Why do cosmic rays increase when solar activity is low? Consider the following: To reach Earth, cosmic rays have to penetrate the inner solar system. Solar storms make this more difficult. CMEs and gusts of solar wind tend to sweep aside cosmic rays, lowering the intensity of radiation around our planet. On the other hand, when solar storms subside, cosmic rays encounter less resistance; reaching Earth is a piece of cake.

    Forecasters expect solar activity to drop sharply in the years ahead as the 11-year solar cycle swings toward another deep minimum. Cosmic rays are poised to increase accordingly. Our next balloon flight is scheduled for Feb. 27th. Stay tuned for updates.

  • Sola scriptura

    There is another video where she is with a turkish christian in Turkey allegedly evangelizing. She tries to heal this muslim woman and then the turkish christian tells her that they need to share the gospel with her. She flatly refuses…and says that they don’t need to share the salvation message of Jesus Christ with a lost muslim! It is all about Heidi and her demonic super powers. That is how the Bethel/hop crew rolls. We must preach the gospel boldly and without fear:

    • Skywatcher

      Amen, Bro! You can say that again! Every Muslim needs Christ as much as the rest of us do! I wonder what her NWO explanation for that kind of comment would be! She’ll not enjoy explaining that to Jesus on Judgment Day! Won’t the demons have fun teasing and tormenting her for all eternity, for her role in expanding Satan’s losing team, and then being a loser herself! I smell a blond steak on the spit and she reeks!

      • sola scriptura

        Thanks Sky. It is going to be crazy when these people realize that they were bitter enemies of the Living God, and helped send MILLIONS to hell forever. I think that they really do know who and what they are in the dark recesses of their consciences….but they are having too much fun with their wicked, false christianity and the fame and power that brings them. It will be ugly for them and all of God’s enemies at the end, when he finishes things on this earth with extreme prejudice:

  • JoshJones

    jezabel at woek

  • Howdy Y’all, I don’t recall even seeing a cross on her stage or in the background. The absence of a cross always bothers me. Yes, these are all evil manifestations and I have witnessed them in person. Some well-meaning pastors have been deceived by these charlatans but soon learn to distance themselves from them. I just feel so bad for all those deceived people who think that all this garbage is a manifestation of the SPIRIT of GOD. BuffaloBilly

  • Dennis

    I got to the 1:27 mark, could not watch anymore, pure evil.

  • Larry

    I’m pretty disgusted by most of the comments on this page and with the article itself. Heidi Baker gave up everything to follow Jesus. Her and her husband have an amazing ministry. While you all sit at home and judge her as well as Bill Johnson and Bethel, they are out proclaiming Jesus. She goes into some of the most desperate areas to bring them the love of Christ. Just because what’s going on doesn’t fit into your KJV only, legalistic mentality, does not mean she is imparting demons. Why don’t you stop judging and open your eyes to the work of the Holy Spirit. People are being delivered, not enslaved! Your type of judgemental Christianity is what turns people away from Christ!
    As for you Mr. Grider, it is very dangerous when a man thinks that he can pass judgement on others because he believes that he knows everything there is to know about how God operates! You bash everything that you can’t explain or don’t believe in because you think you have cornered the market on the Holy Spirit. I pray that your eyes will one day be open and that there more to Holy Spirit outside of the tiny little box you put Him in.

    • Heidi Baker is a DEMONIAC who made herself a MILLIONAIRE in the Prosperity False Gospel movement. NO ONE is being delivered, as you see in the video they are being ENSLAVED.

    • Sola scriptura

      Watch the video. Watch the video. Watch the video.
      Heidi doesn’t preach the gospel in this video or ever – she preaches herself and her demonic powers. She is a servsnt of Satan whether she knows it or not. The video tells the tale, as does the other one where she REFUSES to preach the gospel to a Muslim…and the other one where she is stuck to the ground like a demon possessed whacko.

    • Skywatcher

      Larry, as a strong Christian of over 50 years, I can understand your dismay and hurt over such a post. It brings very serious accusations to the forefront, exposing false prophets, just as Christ said there would be in the last days: Mt. 24: 4, “Take heed that no man deceive you. 5. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many…10. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.”

      Larry, what we are seeing now is the above Scriptures “starting to warm up”. These verses are speaking of the time of the Great Tribulation, or Jacob’s Troubles, however, the birth pains are starting to intensify, Rom. 8: 22. You’ll need to have a KJV Holy Bible to get the correct translation of the verses I cite.

      You vehemently defend Heidi Baker. I don’t know her personally, but do you? Have you ever been to her house or heard her whole testimony? If so, could you please share some of it with me?

      As for judging, Christ gave us a clear precedent that we are to judge, “A tree is known by its fruit, Mt. 7: 16-20.” That requires an observation and then a judgment call. We are told to watch out for those who sow tares among the wheat and to expose them. We have been commissioned to go into all the world, proclaiming the truth of God’s Word, but none of these manifestations can be found in God’s Word, apart from them being of the demonic realm and cast out by Jesus.

      BuffaloBilly has addressed your concern very biblically. In these last days, Larry, make sure you take sound godly counsel from people who really know and practice God’s Word in their day-to-day living, speaking it forth with wisdom, boldness, grace, and love. It’s not always easy to do that, as you have shown us, but hey! We learn from each other, encouraging, edifying, and sometimes even correcting each other in love and sometimes, not so lovely.

      Larry, we are very passionate about God’s Word; He has given us a strong passions to see souls saved, delivered, and living victorious Christian lives. Some of us have been involved in ministry that has seen people gladly delivered from these kinds of demonic manifestations and possessions. Many years ago, I trained to be a Pentecostal pastor, and seeing the gifts of the Holy Spirit in operation was a normal thing and it was biblical, but NOTHING AT ALL LIKE WE’RE SEEING TODAY! It’s pure evil!!! Our Lord died so that we could be freed from such horrible bondage.

      As I watched that poor young blond guy rolling about on the floor, in what appeared to be agony, the Holy Spirit within me cringed! She had most definitely cast a Kundalini spirit upon this receptive guy. Nobody will EVER convince me any differently. A real born again Spirit-filled Christian would’ve picked up on that immediately, and would’ve gone over to him, laid hands on him and prayed for his deliverance, casting the demon out, not allowing it to ravage him in such a manner! Like someone else already posted, I’d like to see how this guy acts from here on out! I wouldn’t at all be surprised if he doesn’t commit a mass murder or take his own life! That’s how seriously messed up that young lad is going to be. Then, of course, his church will make the headlines, and that will bring more persecution for the real born again Church of Jesus Christ…

      As a young Christian, the same age as that lad, I was taught a very valuable theological lesson that I have never EVER forgotten: If it’s NOT in God’s Word, it ain’t God’s Word, and stay away from it!

      So, having said that, Larry, I hope you can see the importance as to why our Brother Geoffrey put this post up. It wasn’t a matter of judging, but a matter of “rightly dividing the word of truth”.

      God is patient; He is pure love, and He wants you to believe in Him and His Word, to stand up for Him, forsaking all others, and that includes Heidi Baker and those of her ilk. Satan is working overtime, and we need to be just as vigilant and discerning. God bless you, as you try to make some sense of all this!

    • Edwitness

      It is not a “legalistic mentality” that faithfully holds to that which is taught in the scriptures. That is true Christianity. To judge in this way is to reprove those who would teach as truth what the scripture abhors. And all who are spiritual are to judge such things. 1stCor.2:14-16.

      One way to straighten out those of us who believe the scriptures to be the infallible word of God is to refer to those scriptures when making your case. Unless of course you do not believe them to be so. If that is the case then your belief in Heidi Baker’s godliness is the least of your worries. I do not know her personally. In fact, I have not heard of her until now. But, from the article and the video it is clear that she at least allows, if not encourages, extremely unbiblical things to go on in her meetings.

  • Larry, We don’t judge–the WORD of GOD does that for us. I have yet to hear her or see her proclaim JESUS. All I see is a woman prancing around on a stage usings mantras to mesmerize those in attendance and subtly try to separate them from their money. You would do well to read Edwitness’s post about her and her ilk. My understanding is that they abandoned everything to get richer–which they are. Some sacrifice… I do NOT see her imparting any deliverance or witnessing for CHRIST, didn’t hear one iota of scripture, and the evidence of the people writhing all over the floor is a clear witness to me of a demonic spirit.. You are also way out of line to attack Geoffrey Crider on this. Your post is an example of your accusations–something the enemy is all to well able to do. Are you sure your name isn’t Ryan Hall from another site… I believe, my friend, that we on this site will be praying for you. Kindly, BuffaloBilly

    • Skywatcher

      AMEN, BB! I agree on all points, and Larry/Ryan, I too, will be praying for you.

    • Gotta agree. Watched her and my spirit witnessed that she is false. She does not appear to know scriptures. She is worldly in her choice of words. I have seen no fruit. No healing. She reports one miracle that no one has witnessed. She professes to BE love. It is very new age. She could be enriching herself… without teaching the gospel and preparing people for spiritual warfare. I am very concerned about theatrics. From gold dust, to blowing breath (Baker copies Hagin Sr. “shhhhh”), to preaching while rattling violently–people assume its the power of God.

      • Ellen H

        Mary Magdalene, yes I totally agree with you. I became very unsettled in my spirit and almost physically ill listening to her. Especially when she repeated things. I’ve heard people speak prophetically and it’s always been confirmed by 2 or more witnesses and it’s always in a controlled and calm manner. No one is screaming or rolling in the isles. I’ve seen people overcome with emotion and cry or even laugh but the hysterical nature of what was shown did not sit well. At all.

  • Char

    Buffalo Billy, hey there….I haven’t heard of 95% of these people, but I live nearby the Willowcreek Church and my daughter goes there to their food bank, but not to their services. She says they are very nice people. Of course they are. Why wouldn’t they be? It’s one of the largest churches in Illinois, with Bill Hybels as their pastor. They also teach on screen of Andy Stanley’s teachings. I wonder if his daddy, Charles, is in agreement with his teachings. Yes, in these last days I do pray for discernment. Thank you so much for remembering my children in prayer. My daughter is MIA right now. Her 14 year old son is here with me, but I haven’t heard from her since yesterday morning. So I pray for her safety (again). Thank you for the list of apostates. I will save your comment to look at again if need be. God Bless!

  • DEAN

    It goes without saying that anyone discernment should be able to see what’s wrong here. The most obvious thing is if you read the Bible you will find that the requirement for a minister is that they are the husband of one wife. You shouldn’t have to go any further than that. If that’s not enough then I will ask you this. Did people on the day of Pentecost start falling on the floor, shaking with epileptic fits and screaming? Where do we see this in the Bible? We see this type of behavior in the people that were possessed by demons that Jesus cast out.

    • Skywatcher

      AMEN! You preach it, brother!

  • grace

    This makes me so sad, I couldn’t watch even half of it. Here is a short testimony of what happened to me years ago and I hope anyone going thru this will be helped by it if they find themselves involved in this and feel like their walk they had with Jesus isn’t the same because of any involvement with people like this. I got involved with a minister who was doing things similar, talking to demons, acting as if he was throwing the anointing on people, people laughing hysterically, etc. I always felt grieved in my heart in the meetings in which I was told was a demon keeping me from receiving. I loved the Lord with all of my heart and spent much time in prayer alone with Him and in His word before attending those meetings. I really began to wonder if they weren’t right about me having a demon of grief because I see everyone having a good time and here I was grieving which in hindsight I understand why I felt grief, it was grief over what I saw happening to those people who God loved and died for, I didn’t understand that at the time but I know now the truth. Anyway, my personality began to change and my youngest son kept telling me there is something wrong with the minister, my son kept telling me to never go back, he thought the minister was a witch and was cursing my walk with Christ, I finally got to the place where I went into a very dark hole, I thought I’d never get my sweet fellowship with Christ back or faith back. I even had weird things happening to me in which one lady who had claimed she got set free from demons because of this minister,she kept calling and telling me that the weird things happening to me were demons manifesting and that I needed this minister to cast them out, I really became a confused basket case. I didn’t think my strong faith in the Lord I had before going to those meetings would ever be overcome until that time of darkness, this group finally quit calling me, they said to me in not so many words that I was hopeless because I wouldn’t submit to the minister. Thank God they said that because I was able to begin to seek God for help and I knew I would never ever trust in a man again, only the Lord God gets my trust, He alone is worthy and He alone answers prayers, never look to man or woman, they are human but always know in whom you believe in, Jesus alone! It took many years for me to feel safe in the Lord again, I still have some struggles but they are minor because I never take my eyes off God’s promises to me, He called me and He will be the only one who finishes the work He began in me. Blessed is the one who trusts in the Lord. David the psalmist understood this even with his faults, He knew who to go to, no matter what you are going through, no matter how alone you feel, how dark it may seem, God is just a whisper away, call upon His Name and you will be saved. There is nothing impossible for Him, nothing too hard for Him. He is the one who loves you and gave His life in your place, put your trust in Him alone!!! Jesus Christ alone is King and Lord over all!

    • Skywatcher

      Thank you, Grace, for sharing that part of your testimony! Thanks be to God, for having allowed you to go through that horrible experience, so that you could learn how strong His mighty arm is to save, and so you could learn to depend upon Him even more! Thankfully, you learned some other valuable lessons from that experience with those deceived people, and today, you are a living testimony that we need to know our Bibles so that when we are assailed by doubts, demons, and fears, we have a solid foundation to stand upon and to build upon, and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it! Yes, I know that is referring to the Church, and as a member of the Body of Christ, you are the Church; WE ARE THE CHURCH!

      God bless you, and again, thank you, for those powerful words of experience and edification!

    • Edwitness

      It is difficult to go against the current. When others you consider your friends are telling you to give in. But, now you know the power of God to preserve you. Thank you for your testimony and encouragement to those who find themselves in similar circumstances. There truly is nothing that is impossible for God!


    • sola scriptura

      Thanks for sharing Grace! It sounds like evil people were after you for sure. What a beautiful thing that God used your innocent son to speak truth. The best defense against all of the false christianity is knowing the word. I love that you referred to David and his Psalms. When I was 19 I learned so much about God’s character and how to relate to him by reading the first few Psalms. I go back to them all of the time. Psalm 91 just helped strengthen me this week. As a shot reminder of what exactly we have been given by God himself with the word, see below:

  • GOD Bless You Grace, Your first-hand account will do more to serve the cause of CHRIST on this site and to warn others on and off this site than any amount of preaching. Perhaps the LORD allowed this to happen in your life as HE knew it would be a powerful testimony in these times. Don’t regret the experience…use it to further the Gospel of our LORD. A faithful brother in CHRIST, BuffaloBilly

  • Howdy JudyLea, I am sorry, but no amount of praise and testimony for her and her ilk is going to carry water. The proof is in what we see from her–not from what those who follow her have to say. There are thousands who endorse Rick Warren and think that he is GOD’S answer to the church. If they really read and studied GOD’S WORD, they would see how he twists scripture to suit his messages and agenda. Like Billy Graham, he is a friend of the world and therefore at enmity with CHRIST (James 4:4). THE HOLY SPIRIT is NOT going to make people humiliate themselves by barking like a dog, howling like a wolf, running around the floor on all fours, break out in uproarious laughter in the middle of a pastor’s sermon, have people writhing on the floor as if in the throes of agony, yell at each other in tongues (no interpreter), shake their heads violently while appearing to prophesy, ad infinitum…None of this edifies any child of THE LIVING GOD and surely does not edify GOD, JESUS, and THE HOLY SPIRIT. The only laughter in her life and those like her is that laughter heard as they are on the way to the bank with the money from all those who allow themselves to be deceived by not knowing the scriptures and/or the TRUTH! You would do well to really focus on the posts of Dean and Edwitness among others. Read Grace’s testimony–riveting…I pray that you will really know and see the truth. In CHRIST, BuffaloBilly

    • Skywatcher

      AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! She might be serving a Jesus, but it’s not the Jesus of the Holy Bible, and she needs to repent and come out of it! For the life of me, I cannot even begin to imagine our God wanting us to act like that! That’s another good word, Bro!

    • Heather

      Amen Buffalo Billy! Many years ago after my husband and I moved, we set out to find a Church. We took our 4 children with us to the first Church we decided on to check out. Making our way to the very back, we sat down and soon after, the service began. At first everything seemed normal. The Pastor began to preach after the music and singing had stopped. Yet the people in the choir stayed up on the stage seated on their stools while he was preaching. About 10 or 15 minutes into his sermon, all the sudden we began to hear this wailing. Then this crying and wailing got louder and louder overbearing the Pastor’s preaching. It was coming from a woman in the choir sitting up on the stage 15 feet from the Pastor. He continued on until all the Church could only hear this very loud howling. My children looked horrified just as we were because we had never seen this before where such howling was allowed to interrupt the whole service. It was a very eerie howling over and over. No one went to her aid. Everyone just sat there while she howled so as if they were used to what was happening, just waiting for it to end so the Pastor could continue with his preaching.
      This went on for 15 long minutes. One visit to that Church was all it took and we never went back to it. I didn’t understand what that was about and I still don’t til this day.

      • Skywatcher

        Heather and BB, forgive me for butting in, but you both know my Pentecostal training and background of long ago, and I have to admit both your experiences in those churches you were checking out WERE NOT of God! It was not done “decently and in order” I Cor. 14: 40.

        Furthermore, such activity could NOT be backed by Scripture; it did not edify the body, and lastly, it did NOT bring glory or honor to God! The pastor was an idiot for allowing these activities to continue on without rebuking them! That’s what I would’ve done and the congregation and visitors would’ve greatly appreciated it because these folks were sources of confusion and distraction, sure signs it was of the demonic!

        You both were wise and obedient to God by not going back!

        I hope this helps a little! Love ya’s!

  • Char

    You preach it, Pastor Skywatcher! I bet you would make a very caring and compassionate pastor, not to mention a good preacher. I’m very disappointed to see Dr. Charles Stanley’s name on the list and I also watch John MacArthur on YouTube sometimes and he seems to stick to the Word and not back down from adversity. I guess I have to do overtime on praying for discernment. I watch Dr. Stanley too on Saturday nights. I watch Paul Washer sometimes too. Since I can’t find a decent, spiritual church to go to, now I can’t find an up and up preacher either on TV. What’s a person to do to find a good church service on TV these days? I do like Robert Jeffress on Pathway to Victory on Sundays. PLEASE don’t tell me he’s on the list. I think I will still watch him if he is. I’m still surprised about David Jeremiah also. The list goes on and on these days. Oh Lord, help us! Thank you though for the update.

    • Skywatcher

      Thank you, for the encouragement, Sis! I’ve been accused of being all those things you have said, and I give God all the glory and the praise! After all, He equipped me and allowed me to sit under the excellent tutelage of very wise and God-fearing men.

      Brother Geoffrey said awhile ago, in regards to some of these preachers, especially the older ones (I believe), we can listen to them, but we need to know enough of God’s Word to be able to eat the chicken and to spit out the bones. As I encouraged before, keep your KJV handy during their messages. When they read a passage, read along with them in your Bible, so you can quickly pick out any errors or heresies.

      Not everything they say is incorrect; I’m still listening to Dr. Jeremiah, but am mindful that he uses the NKJV which is the biggest counterfeit bible out there! However, I’ve noticed that he and several others us the KJV when they’re preaching on doctrinal issues. What sickens me, as you know, is that they have agreed to this ecumenical effluvia that is of Satan.

      It’s after midnight, and unlike you, Char, I NEED my beauty sleep! God bless you, my dear sister! I too, am praying for your family everyday! I suspect we’ll soon be getting a praise report…

    • Kieran Wallace

      Char, I often watch John MacArthur and he is sound doctrine. You should see his
      “Strange Fire” conference at You also can listen to Dr. R.C. Sproul and study on-line at Ligonier Connect. All sound doctrine and true to the Word of God. Voddie Baucham is also a great preacher who loves the Lord in truth. I live in Redding and see firsthand the shameful practices of this so called church, it hurts my heart knowing this is just minutes away from me. If it does not edify our holy, holy, holy God then it is from the evil one. Thankfully God warned me of this church in a dream I had before I ever knew it existed. Lord’s blessings to you. And it is nice to see a site like this out here for the people who truly want to know the Lord and serve Him.

      • Kieran, thank you for taking a stand for sound teaching and sound doctrine! Dr. John MacArthur, Dr. R.C. Sproul and Voddie Baucham are sound in the faith and sound in the truth of God’s word.

  • matt

    This is not of God, a simple examination of scripture shows these people for what they are, false “profits.”

  • Char

    Skywatcher, I thank you and BB for your much needed prayers for my family, as I told him, my daughter is MIA since yesterday morning. Her 14 year old is with me at least. I just pray for her safety and that she will NOT drink and drive and of course, most importantly, her salvation. Good night, sweet dreams!

  • CrissCross

    Prophets to Profits: The Corporate Takeover of Spirituality!

    …(just sharing)

  • DEAN

    When I first got saved I went into all sorts of denominations looking for the truth. I was in a Pentecostal Church for a few months and the pastor invited some woman minister to speak. She stated in her sermon she was eating in a restaurant and the Holy Spirit told her the man sitting in front of her was a minister. She got up and introduced herself and she said she found out he really was a minister. After the sermon, everyone filed in line to have this woman lay hands on them. She was telling this woman in front of her she could see her pain in such and such a part of her body like what you would see a psychic healer do on TV. She got to me and asked me if I was a minister and she instantly discredited everything she had said before. I told her no and she seemed to get nervous. She changed the subject and asked me if I wanted to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Being young in the faith and not really understanding what was going on at the time, I said yes. The minute she touched me, this woman across from me started clucking like a chicken. I immediately felt something push me down on the floor and at the same time I heard this demonic laughter and I initially thought some people were laughing at me because I fell to the floor. I stayed there for a few minutes trying to get up but then some force would push me back down again. I went back to that church one last time to confront the pastor about woman being a minister and he also said, like one other poster on here did, that I was reading too much of that KJV Bible. I left after that.

    That is not the only experience I had with Charismatics. There was a man in town I was introduced to who would do revivals around apartment complexes. He had a group of people who would meet over at his house on Wednesday nights for Bible study and I attended one of the these meetings. I was asked if I wanted to be filled with the Holy Spirit and I said yes. They put a chair in the middle of the room and people laid their hands on me. Nothing really happened until I got home that evening and went to bed. Mind you, this was not a dream. I had just shut my eyes and I immediately fell out of my body onto the floor. This was not in some kind of dream state either. I was fully conscious of what was going on. My cat was on the bed and was making distressing noises I had never heard him make before. I thought the Lord had done this and I ran into the kitchen and passed through the wall. I was not in my backyard. I was standing at the foot of a mountain like something you would see in the Rockies. I started lifting my hands and yelling come to me Jesus and running toward the mountain. Jesus never came but I did feel the presence of something evil around me. I felt the Lord’s protection on me and I was placed back in my body.

    These experiences were pure occultism and I stopped having anything to do with these churches anymore.

    • ChristianLinuxGuy

      Hello Dean,

      I completely understand as I have had a very similar experience back a few years ago. I would love to relate it here, but too many people (on other sites, this is my first post here) have told me I’m too long winded. Still I feel the need to relate my experience as a testimony to others involved or thinking about getting involved with these type of proceedings.

      SO… I just set up a new blog to tell others about my experiences instead. It’s actually a small part of a much longer work I’m writing on why the KJV is the only Bible we should trust.

      I hope I won’t be offending anyone if I put a link to my testimony post here.

  • Pingback: Watch False Teacher Heidi Baker Imparting Demons And Casting Spells At Bethel Church – EVIL THINGS()

  • Darren

    1 Corinthians 14:33 KJV

    For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

    The demonic kundalini spirit otherwise known as being demonised

    Hopefully the abovr link will help those who think this heresy is Christ filled, see that it stems straight from the pit of hell.

    As sinners saved by grace we should bring them before the Lord asking Him to help them see the error of their ways.

  • Char

    Kiernan Wallace, thank you for the info. I will be looking into it. God Bless!

  • MicaH

    Two years ago I went and saw Heidi Baker speak. I had heard good things about her, from the friends that I was going with, and I had read a very positive article about her in Christianity Today online.

    Right away as I listened to her though, red flags started going up.. My discernment (which was less sharp than it is today), immediately began to question this woman.

    The biggest red flag was the fact that she was saying “gods” (plural) in sentences where she should have been referring to “God” (singular). She said this several times. Additionally, a similar scene to the one in the video ensued at the end of her service. Not to mention, despite holding a bible the entire time, she barely read from it.

    Amazingly, afterward, when I asked my friends if they heard her saying “gods,” none of them had heard it!!

    It wasn’t until a couple of months later that I came across a video, where Heidi does in fact say “gods” plural that I realized how false this woman, and ministries like it, actually were.

    It was actually the beginning of a difficult two-year search for doctrinal truth, that has led me to see the ministries of Bethel, IHOP, Iris, etc. for what they are (completely false – but really good counterfeits). No wonder all but one New Teatament writer (James) warned of false teachers, false prophets, false gospels and false christs.
    And these warnings are clearly for false teachings WITHIN the church.

    See video below for evidence of Heidi’s frequent use of “gods” plural.. (Can start at 2 minute mark, and you’ll get the jist pretty quickly).

    (I don’t know who put this video together, and don’t necessarily endorse the group.. regardless, the proof is clear as day)

    God bless, in Christ,


    • Skywatcher

      Micah, thank you for that very enlightening post, and the link, which I shall watch later. I’m in Canada, and I need a little help from you. Could you or somebody please explain to me what “IHOP, Iris” are? I’ve never heard of them before.

      Thank you, and God bless you with peace and joy as you serve Him today!

  • Howdy Patrice, Thank-you for the additions to my list…and hopefully the lists of all other Believers. I don’t reckon that we will ever have a complete list of these apostates because it just continues to grow. We can only pray for those under their “spell”. In CHRIST, BuffaloBilly

  • jknbt

    here’s a grab from the iris website:

    “Now, after coming to Africa and starting with street beggar children in 1995, we have seen a people movement spread across the ten provinces of Mozambique. Massive desperation for God rising out of a long history of repression, poverty and natural disasters has fueled revival, one that is sparking more fire in nations around the world. And signs and wonders are following all the way.

    What began as a ragged band of young beggars, thieves and delinquents has developed by the power of the Holy Spirit into a closely-knit national family of thousands of churches and a broad ministry encompassing Bible schools, children’s centers, church-based orphan care, primary education, medical clinics, constant evangelistic and healing outreaches, farming, well drilling and much else. Our vision in the Lord is constantly increasing.”


    What have you pharisee hypocrites accomplished in the last 21 years that compares to this? How many consecutive years in a row have you baptised 500+ converts from islam? How many orphanages have you built? How many churches have you established?

    Stand on the sidelines and criticize if you want. It is easy to criticise.

    • Skywatcher

      Believer, they are NOT “sound in the truth of God’s Word”, as long as they using counterfeit bibles that change the doctrines! There is only ONE TRUTH as there is only one Savior, and these phony bibles are NOT truth! Furthermore, these money-hungry ministers have swung over to the ecumenical movement, which is the apostate church of the Antichrist. These serious and genuine men of God ought to have known much better than that! For years, many of them preached against it, and now look, they’re a part of it and promoting it! That is NOT of God.n Especially now that we are in the last days, we have to be extremely discerning.

    • Skywatcher

      jknbt, thank you, for that information…I think. If these people have a saucy and judgmental attitude as you do, they won’t be getting any of my financial support! You don’t know all about the various ministries there are within Christendom, what ministries any of us support, etc. and therefore, you don’t have the right to judge everybody like that. That was very unChristlike. If this ministry is using counterfeit bibles, then their converts are NOT converted to Christianity, as these books have demoted Christ to be the brother of Satan, stripped Him of His Lordship, and removed the word blood and its efficacy from the Holy Bible. So, upon my investigation into this ministry, I’ll be watching for “red flags” and rightly discerning through the power and Person of the Holy Spirit.

      • jknbt

        whew! the staggering hypocrisy of calling me overly judgemental of other’s ministries! This website is full of vicious pharisaical judgement of other’s ministries, some of them as effective as Baker’s.

        The bible most pentecostals use is the good ol’ KJV. Which bible do you think they use? The NIV? Yuck! None of them use the NIV that I know of…They don’t use the Good News, the Living Bible, or RSV. Your objection is baseless.

        You need to do a little more research yourself before you start calling ministers and their converts apostate. God will judge you by your own standards.

        Let me answer the hard question again: how many churches, orphanages, schools, and clinics have you or your ministry built the last 21 years? How many converts from islam have you baptised? You will know them by their fruits.

        You need to get ahold of a truth you are blind to: Pentecost is the great end-time revival of prophecy in full blown manifestation. You pharisees that reject it are like the children of Israel who could not enter the promised land. They could not enter the land because of lack of faith. You pharisees do not have part or portion of the work due to your own lack of faith.

        Pentecost is different from your version of dried up protestantism. This is a good thing. It is incredibly unreasonable and intolerant for you to say they are not christian at all because they have Holy Ghost annointings and operations you don’t know anything about.

        Some people have a bad case of pharisaical religious pride. They consider them so intimate with God, that if he ever chose to start doing miracles and healings, he would simply have to work with them and their program. Pride says that if anyone gets that sort of annointing other than them, why it can’t be of God, since after all, they are the super-dooper saints and favorites of the Lord in these last days. Pharisaical pride takes it one step further to say that it must therefore be satan who is working all the miracles and medically verifiable healings. This is the worst form of blasphemy. Jesus said people who do that will not be forgiven in this life or the life to come (Luke 12:10).

        So beware, lest Mr. Pride take you and your family to hell.

        • Skywatcher

          jknbt, listen up you spiritual shame and reproach to the cross of Jesus Christ! You’re talking to a former PENTECOSTAL pastor, and I’d be very ashamed and embarrassed to have you in my congregation! Put that in your pipe and smoke whatever flavor you want out of it; it will blend in well with the other smoke you’re covered with!

          As for God’s judgment, I fear it NOT! I have no reason to fear His judgment because I judge myself, and I repent when I have done wrong. As brothers and sisters in Christ can testify, I also graciously accept correction when warranted. It’s not that difficult to humble oneself and to stay in God’s good graces.

          You are seriously deceived when you believe that Pentecostals ALL use the KJV! Around here, they do not, and they vehemently defend the counterfeits, and that’s one of the reasons I’m no longer associated with the spiritual misfits. It’s also a reason why I stick with the KJV… PENTECOSTALS, of not so many years ago, would NOT use any other bible because they had godly pastors who showed them the errors in them and cautioned them against using Satanically induced/influenced “bibles”.

          Don’t be giving out if you don’t expect to get just as good in return…especially from me! In the power of Jesus’ mighty name, I can cast that demon out you so fast, that there wouldn’t be a whole lot of you left to feed!

          You said, “Some people have a bad case of pharisaical religious pride.”

          Well! If that isn’t the pot calling the kettle black, then I don’t know what is! Repent and stop your judging everybody else according to your godless, and demon-possessed standards of “Christianity”! He does love you, you know!

          I didn’t bother to waste my time reading through the rest of your hateful diatribe, just so you know. You might just want to get a good grip on yourself, and study up on Gal. 5: 22, 23. Confess your sins, repent, and ask Christ to be your Savior and LORD. He can replace that hatred, bitterness, anger, and animosity with something sweet, adorable, lovable, and acceptable. Who knows…you might just be the start of something good in this twisted mess you call Christianity!

          • jknbt

            sounds like you need to get Mr. Pride cast out yourself…take a dose of your own medicine…

            blast away if you want…this is the most deceitful pharisee website or ministry I have encountered in my life. I do well to challenge the staggering hypocrisy here (including yours) and put these things in biblical perspective.

            It was the pharisees with the help of their roman friends that crucified the Lord. This website with your help crucifies the Lord afresh daily (Heb 6:6). There is no place of repentance for those who crucify the Lord afresh.

            If I have a role here at all, it is to warn people that persistent, unrepentant blasphemy of the holy spirit will take them straight to hell!!…So much of this website and ministry is dedicated to teaching the readers to blaspheme.

            So go ahead and rage. Oh why do the heathen rage? (Ps. 2:1) in your case, it is because someone dared challenge you, your hypocrisy, and your defence of this website dedicated to speaking against the Holy Spirit.

          • jknbt

            p.s….I have only seen pentecostals use the KJV…some like the updated NKJV. Thomas Nelson publishers did a good job replacing some archaic words with the more modern correct ones. It is still KJV and still goes back to the “Textus Receptus” the received text of hebrew O.T. and greek N.T.

            Some pentecostals do use the Dake version. I have never used a Dake bible, but I know a few that do.

            Whenever someone comes into the church with a NIV, we try to counsel them to not use it. If they insist on using it anyway, we give them a short paper that lists the 11 verses the NIV left out and the other changes.

            A valid bible will go back to the original greek & hebrew we have received through the years.

        • Howdy JKNBT, In reading your defense of the “works” of Heidi Baker and scathing attack on those who question who she serves, you omit a very salient issue: the skinny blond boy who is writhing all over the floor. This began after Heidi put her hand on him and continued. She laid a hand on him a second time and his spasms intensified. How can you explain this as an act of THE HOLY SPIRIT. All the background shrieking doesn’t help either. If you can adequately explain this manifestation, then we can all put this issue to rest. I’ll await your reply. Respectfully, BuffaloBilly

          • jknbt

            thanks for your civil question…I am at work now on a break, so I can’t study the video in depth…maybe later at the house…

            sometimes there are dramatic presentations when the devil erupts in someone during deliverance…don’t blame this on the Holy Spirit. This is just the devil trying to intimidate the people casting him out. Sometimes the devils will do any of these things to make the minister give up in fear or weakness:

            tear the person, where they feel physical pain
            cause the possessed person to foam at the mouth like a rabid dog
            make scary grimacing facial expressions gnashing their teeth
            howl, boo-hoo, and pine away in a noisy manner
            make the victim fall on the ground and wallow about uncontrollably
            cause the victim to act suicidally by making them jump into fire or into water to drown
            cause the victim to cry out loudly
            rip and tear (rend) the victim, causing great pain
            cause the victim to become unconscious due to the great pain

            so you tell me, what would you make of it if you saw a minister trying to get someone delivered, and the poor wretch had to go through all of this? This is all quite dramatic and scary. What do you say?

            A) the minister is a witch and has put demons on the victim. The victim has been deceived.
            B) the minister is of the Lord, is faithful, and is ministering under an annointing of the Holy Ghost so the poor person the devil is hurting can get delivered and healed.

            I hope you said “B”, because this is an almost verbatim account of how the Lord Jesus delivered the child with a dumb spirit. See Mark 9: 17-29.

            I hope this answers your question. I will take a good look at the clip and get back with you.

          • jknbt

            howdy back, BuffaloBilly…I just looked at the clip. It’s kind of disturbing what happened to the blond kid. The only time I have seen a deliverance like that was when this guy had been heavily involved in the occult, new age, psychic readings, etc. The fellow felt called to the ministry. He came down to the altar and had a spontaneous deliverance like that. The preacher wasn’t even talking about deliverance. And the church security guy came over and held him down just like in the clip. Those kind of demons don’t come out easily. He was thrashing around even more than the blond kid, by a lot. But you know what? He got a major deliverance out of it. God was taking him “out of Babylon” so to speak. I know the man, and that was the first of several major deliverances. It turns out the guy had strong american indian blood, and there were a generational curses left around from generations of shamanism. Glad to report that is all over with. The fellow is now a bible teacher, living morally, and full tither. He is done with all that new age junk. No more psychics or new age anything, praise the Lord!

            I would be interested in talking to the blond kid. He probably had something like that going on. Just playing at ouija boards once can call demons. Seances and witchcraft all call strong demons. These enemies are hard to get rid of by any means. It is easy to stumble into that junk these days with all the new age stuff out there.

            The only problem I see is that someone spiritually mature should have recognized the deliverance need. Someone should have come over and started praying through the situation with the kid. That is where word of knowledge and discernment come in. Imagine the pain a woman goes through when she starts to have a child in childbirth, and something goes wrong. If the child becomes lodged in the birth canal, half in and half out, the mother will scream and writhe around just like the kid did. So I think the deliverance started for the kid, but he needed help to get rid of all the demons. That’s the only problem I see here. That’s why he was having such a rough time of it.

            The commentary on the clip is blasphemous. Adding in clips from hindu gurus and cults only caused confusion.

        • Skywatcher

          I don’t recall hearing of a Dake version before; is it fairly new? Have you seen one, and if so, what are the errors in it? How come your church only puts out a leaflet on the NIV? It is good that they do, but the others are just as heretical.

          • jknbt



            I don’t know how sound it is (or not)…I have just seen people at the church carrying it….

            there are websites out there that despise it…But they may be wrong. Some people recommend it.

  • DC

    Brothers & Sisters,

    I am struggling with something & hope you can help. Our God is so patient and so merciful, do you think there is still a chance that our country will repent and be revived spiritually, or is it really too late? I know there were 2 Great Revivals in history and supposedly a 3rd one to come. Will that be before or after the Rapture? The book of Joel appears to talk about repentance and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit as being after the Rapture in the Day of the Lord…

    So many are being deceived, and they naively think they are being good Christians. I recently had a wonderful talk with my elderly mother about the things that are wrong in the Catholic church. She said I gave her a lot to think about. (I shared most of this earlier, so won’t repeat myself.) Then just last week when I called, she had to call me back b/c she was in the middle of saying her rosary. So much for that! I call faith + works “hedging one’s bets.”

    I know God will more fiercely judge the wrongful teachers and He knows our hearts, but it scares me that:

    -my dad and other loved ones might not be in heaven
    -those I love now practicing the Catholic faith, including my kids, might not go (& it’s my fault for raising them that way before I knew the truth.)
    -those of us who are saved will forget the others and won’t even know they didn’t make it

    I just use the RCC as an example, but there are so many denominations that think they’re doing right & never question their teachers. They sincerely love God & believe in Jesus, but then they have all the extra-biblical teachings that detract from that faith.
    The bible was kept from the people for 400 years and written in Latin, which didn’t help the barely educated much at all. We have no excuse today, I know, but the fears put into at least my family’s heads that they could damn their souls by MISinterpreting scripture made them afraid to even try.

    We read in Acts 16:30-31 of the keeper of Paul & Silas in prison who said,
    “Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 and they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”

    So, will faith in Jesus–that we’re sinners, He died for us, etc–be enough to get to heaven? Yes, I know that some
    churches are preaching a “different” Jesus, but if the people honestly don’t know that, will God really condemn them?

    Skywatcher, you tried to help me put it all in God’s hands when I mourned about this earlier, but as you can see, and as the “calling up” is getting closer, I am still trying to figure it all out. A friend of the family just died, who was a New Ager, and I mourned her eternal loss, but my husband said we don’t know if Jesus approaches them as they die, telling them the truth. So many have lost children here, that it sounds nice, but I don’t see any evidence of that in the bible. Going off topic, sorta, so I’ll close.
    Thanks, all, and God Bless you.

    • Skywatcher

      DC, you asked, “So, will faith in Jesus–that we’re sinners, He died for us, etc–be enough to get to heaven?”

      I know you’re struggling and hurting about this, but the answer is no. I told you before, that the demons also believe in God, and they tremble! James 2: 19. It is NOT enough to merely have faith. The word “believe” is deeper than a mere head knowledge; it is absolute trust. Where there is trust, their is commitment, and obedience.

      A few years ago, we used to sing a grand old hymn, “Trust and Obey”. If you can get the words to it, the rest of your question will be answered. Jesus said many times, “If ye love me, keep my commandments.”

      People may have faith in God, but until they pray the sinner’s prayer in sincere faith, they will never be saved. What hinders most people from praying the sinner’s prayer of faith? PRIDE.

      Your husband had a “nice hopeful idea”, but as you said, there is NO evidence to support this in Scripture. Doctors have written books on the dying experiences of a great many of their patients, and only those who had the Lord Jesus Christ in their lives were the ones who died peacefully. Those who didn’t have Christ fought “tooth and nail” struggling to stay on this side. It wasn’t pretty. It’s not always like that, but as I’ve said before, we are NEVER with our loved ones 24/7 each and every day of their lives, so we can hope that at some point, they did receive Christ as their Savior, but not necessarily their Lord. He may have saved them, but because they did not avail themselves to good strong Bible teaching, they may not have realized that they could accumulate reward crowns in Heaven. On the other hand, many will receive reward crowns because they were always good people, so AFTER receiving Christ as their Savior, they would be even better people, not knowing they were storing up those reward crowns! Some are going to have a good surprise and others will have a not-so-good surprise on Reward Day!

      These are the ones who enter the Kingdom of God with “the smell of smoke” on them! They just get in by the skin of their teeth because they placed their faith and trust in Him for salvation. Many do that, and never tell a soul because they believe it is extremely private. They won’t have any rewards in most cases, but at least, they’ve made it safe to the other shore, and we will see those loved ones again.

      I hope this helps you in your time of aching and longing.

      God bless you!

  • SS

    True evil disguised as Good. What a shame. The saddest part is the people there are probably truely seeking the Lord. Let’s all pray for them today, that they find the REAL Jesus and His Father God, and can get away from this demonic church pit of hell.

  • Howdy DC, BuffaloBilly here. I understand your dilemma because I have the same with my son and his family and my brother and his family. Neither of the families will talk to me so direct witnessing is out. Therefore, I pray for them–which is effective enough. We both want our loved ones to miss the tribulation and not have to go through the turmoil and terrors that are prophesied. However, it is more important for them to have eternal life with our LORD, right? So, we pray for them and hope that GOD will honor our prayers of salvation for our loved ones in time to keep them out of the trib. Some people, DC, are so stiff-necked that it may take the trib to wake them up and accept JESUS. We must also keep that in mind. They will be tribulation Saints and then we know that they will be in Heaven. Whenever I Read Matt 7:21-23 the catholic church always comes to my mind and I suppose that that scripture may be for them as well as many other professing Christians. Make sure that your mom is aware of those verses. You can add Matt 7:13-14 also though I think that those particular verses are for all people to ponder. Also, in Revelation 2:18 when JESUS is addressing the church of Thyatira, I have likened that Thyatira to the catholic church and the ages that it ruled. You may see what I see in that passage. There is a website called (texe Marrs). He has a video called VATICAN RISING that you may want to get. It may help you with your mom. Recall in the Bible where JESUS is castigating the Pharisees and Sadducees for their close attention to the laws of man and not the scriptures (loose translation), let your mom know that the catholic catechism is nothing more than laws of men and she is no better than those JESUS berates if she adheres to them and not the WORD of GOD. Finally, show her in the scriptures where we are instructed to pray to the father only (Rev. 19:10, Rev. 22:9, and I think once in the book of Daniel), and not to men and certainly not to Mary. I am sure that you know all this anyway, but it is just some of the stuff I try to use when witnessing to a catholic. What might really help is if you pray with your mom and let her know how fervent your are about her salvation. I don’t think that there is a more tender moment between two people than when they pray together. I hope that some of this helps. I am honoring the requests of some of the brothers and sisters I have met on this site about praying for their families and I will surely add your mom and young’uns to my list. Pray these verses: Psalm 54:2 and Psalm 104:33-34. GOD Bless You DC, and all that you do for the cause of CHRIST. Your fellow servant, BuffaloBilly PS If I see other things to help you, I will send them to you. BB

    • DC

      Thanks, Billy. I looked up those verses and wrote them down. I’ve shared several bible “facts” with my mom and I really thought I was getting through to her. My SDA neighbor is just as devout in believing her church’s lies. (Geoff wrote a great article about them.) I keep thinking “brainwashing.” My mom’s not stiff-necked; they were really terrorized by the priests and nuns when they were young and impressionable. They can’t fathom that Marian visions (which often happened to children)could ever be a demon, but the devil CAN and DOES appear as an angel of light. They also can’t comprehend that Jesus said, “It is finished.” What part of that is hard to understand?

      I’ve been away from the RCC for about 10 years now, but this is the first year in over 50 that I haven’t observed Lent. (Oddly, many Protestant churches now observe it.) I never made my kids do a lot of the “extra” stuff, and they were very much exposed to other churches (Sunday School in their dad’s church, VBS, Awana, etc.) so I think they understand “grace” over “works” better than most. I also share a little here and there with them, like my not saying the rosary or observing Lent. Little doses of my epiphany. It’s my mom and one brother I really worry about. Of course, sister and other brother don’t go to church at all…

      I am very thankful for your prayers. I try not to be obsessive over it, but I have this feeling that time is short and I want us to all be together for eternity. Thanks, BB

      • Howdy DC, I apologize for using the term “stiff-necked” in reference to your mom and catholicism. I agree, it is more like being brainwashed. One of my nieces married into a catholic family and told me that her mother-in-law had told her that She was a catholic first, and then a believer in JESUS. How does that dog hunt??? I have read a lot about catholicism. Its roots go back to the tower of babel. Mother-child worship began with Semiramis, the wife/sister of Nimrod and their child Tammuz. Of course, when the inhabitants of Babel were scattered about the world, so was this idolatrous worship. Another synonym for Semiramis was Astarte from which Easter was derived. You might do some research on these names and present them to your mom. She has to understand that catholicism is an idolatrous cult and nothing more. I think when she sees the idolatrous practices of the church: praying to men, praying to Mary, idolizing Mary and acknowledging that she is a co-redeemer with CHRIST, confessing sin to men, the doctrine of transubstantiation, the various chants and recitations, leaving JESUS on the cross, and following the edicts of the pope rather than GOD’S WORD, she will understand. You will probably have to work on one of these transgressions at a time with her. Y’all will be in my prayers for sure. Don’t give up, have the patience of the Saints and when having done all…Stand! We both know GOD will answer your prayers. I have always thought that the prayers of the children for their parents carried extra weight with THE LORD…no scriptural backing, just my thoughts. You could also show your mom that the prayers of sinners (other than the prayer of salvation) are NOT heard by GOD so all her praying falls on deaf ears (Isa 59:2, Psalm 66:18, Proverbs 15:29, John 9:31). In CHRIST Always, BuffaloBilly

        • Skywatcher

          That’s excellent counsel, BuffaloBilly! God bless you, for your faithfulness to our Heavenly Father and to the family!

    • Skywatcherq

      Hey there, Brother BB!

      I see in your response to DC that you mentioned “ (Texe Marrs)”. Are you aware that Texe is an SDA? I just thought I’d run that by you in case you weren’t aware. Blessings!

  • Char

    BuffaloBilly, I was reading your comment to DC and enjoying the enlightenment of it and in it you said: Some people, DC, are so stiff-necked that it may take the trib to wake them up and accept JESUS. We must also keep that in mind. They will be tribulation Saints and then we know that they will be in Heaven.

    So my question to you is, what about 2 Thessalonians 2:10-11 King James Version (KJV)

    10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    I was under the understanding that this means if a person has the opportunity during this time (before the tribulation) to accept the Lord after hearing the plan of salvation…..and turns it down, they will NOT have a chance during the tribulation due to God sending the strong delusion He speaks of in II Thess. 2:10.

    What do you think? I sure hope they do have a chance to accept the Lord. I was told the unbelievers that will accept the Lord during the Tribulation will be those who have NEVER heard the plan of salvation before or had the chance to turn it down. I try to think that my children WILL have that chance and unfortunately will be martyred, but I can’t get the above verses out of my head that say otherwise. Thank you and God Bless!

    • Howdy Char, Well, you may have opened up a can of worms by asking me this…I believe that–just as salvation is a ‘heart’ issue, so will it be during the tribulation. Now notice that I said “I believe”, not “thus sayeth the LORD”. There are those who clearly reject JESUS and the gospel Of salvation now. If these people go into the tribulation, they will be the ones who will receive the strong delusion sent from GOD. Recall the parable of the sower of the seed. Some fell by the wayside and satan came and stole the word from them. I liken these people to those who have heard the gospel, liked what they heard, but delayed reacting to it. Satan stole the word.. I think that they get another chance. I also think that there are those who professed Christianity, but were deceived and will realize their plight, and they will get another chance. Now to the can of worms. I have a difficult time with the idea that those who are saved and severely backslidden to the point that they are practicing their sin in the face of THE LORD, will be raptured. Yes, they are sealed until the day of redemption, but the day of redemption is not a one-time deal. It is on-going. Raptured Saints will have their day of redemption (when we get our new bodies) at the rapture. Resurrected Saints will get theirs the same time. Tribulation Saints will get theirs as they die and/or are martyred. Backslidden Saints who are practicing sin will go into the rapture and obviously get their lives straight. They will also be a witness for Christ in that time. Because GOD loves us, HE chastises us when we get out of line. Some listen quickly, some take longer, and some ignore his chastisement. The ultimate chastisement for a backslidden Christian will be to go into the tribulation. I have been studying this and have come up with some scriptural support (luke 12:42-48, Matt 24: 48-51, 1 Thess 1:8, possibly Matt 7:21-23, Titus 3:8). Char, we are commanded repeatedly to “WATCH” to make ourselves “WORTHY” and to be PURIFYING ourselves (Luke 12:37-40, 43-46; Mark 13:35-36;1 Cor 16:13; 1 Peter 4:7-8;Hab 2:1; Eph 6:18; 1 Thess 5:6; 1 John 3:2-3; Heb 9:28, 10:25; Titus 2:12-14, 3:3; colossians 4:2) That’s just for watching. For being found worthy and purifying ourselves are: 1 Thess 2:12, 4:7, 5:23; 1 Peter 1:22; 2 Peter 3:11-14; 2 Thess 1:11; 2 Tim 2:15, 3:16-17; 1 John 3:2-3; Luke 21:36; and Titus 2:12-14, 3:8. Some of these verses are repetitive in that they address watching, worth, and purification. These are not the teachings of any pastor/evangelist/heretic/whatever, just my own searching and trying to rightly divide the WORD of TRUTH. If I am wrong–no big deal. But…if I am right, then those who profess to being Christians and are backslidden had better possess and get right with GOD. GOD is Holy! How can one who practices sin and is saved be counted as HOLY and stand before GOD (JESUS) at the rapture? Yes, there are all those who will say that these people were not saved to begin with, but that, at best, is a judgment call on their part. THE WORD clearly says to “call on the name of THE LORD and thou shalt be saved. People who do this are saved, according to the WORD. I know people who have done that and lived Godly lives for a while and then began to practice sin. Notice that I said “practice”. We may all sin on a daily basis, and not know it. That is why we pray and ask for forgiveness and have THE LORD expose those sins to us that we may not commit those sins again. But there are those who willingly sin and “practice” those sins in the eyes of GOD. There is no “Fear of the LORD” in them! If they don’t listen to his chastisement..what else is there since these folk are “sealed until the day of redemption”. They go to heaven and smell of smoke from their lack or rewards, but they go through Tribulation first. I am always looking for confirmation one way or the other on this, but as I said, if I am wrong–no big deal; if I am right…Char, I have tried to faithfully address your question as best I can. I have also opened myself up to the “LOONS” now. OY! BTW I think that everyone on earth will have heard the gospel message before the tribulation starts. It would be unfair of our LORD to send people into this terrible time without providing an escape, don’t you think??? In love and CHRIST, BuffaloBilly

      • DC

        Very good lesson BB. I know if Jesus had come 15 years ago, I might have had to go through the Tribulation. I knew divorce was wrong, but I was hurting so much I just wanted to run away from it all. I thank the Lord every day for His grace and mercy and that He gave me time to repent of this sin. That’s why I hope for that 3rd Great Awakening, so people living outside His will still have time to repent.

        What’s weird is that my mom has done all the “right” things according to the RCC, and I’m this terrible sinner whom they would refuse communion, yet I believe I’m saved and am not sure about her. It was during that very terrible time in my life and the repercussions re: the RCC that made me really study the bible and realize they were wrong. (The woman at the well story really resonated.)How ironic is that? So I add in my prayers every night that the Lord would see the hearts of those who truly love Him, even if they are involved in a faith + works church–that their faith in Him would be enough and He’ll one day say, “My child, you didn’t have to do all that but just believe in Me.”

        You are very kind to take the time to try to ease my fears. Char had a great question and you kindly answered her as well. Thanks again.

        • Howdy DC, The LORD WILL truly look at the hearts of those who are following bad doctrine and false prophets. Recall in Revelation to the church of the Laodiceans, after HIS severe rebuke of that church, HE still asks,” If any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with ME”. But the crucial issue is and will always be…accepting JESUS as LORD and SAVIOR of one’s life. JESUS knows the false churches, pastors, and doctrines; but, HE also knows those who are sincere in their beliefs of HIM, but are deceived. We are warned repeatedly that “let no man deceive you”. I haven’t found a scripture to condemn a person in deception–one who has acnkowledged CHRIST as LORD and SAVIOR. Our sins don’t send us to hell, no matter what they are; it is the denying the LORDSHIP of CHRIST in our lives and our confession of that fact. I reckon that it all tends to revert back to Roman’s Road, huh? BTW Be obsessive about your mom as the enemy would love for you to back off trying not to obsess about this. Her salvation is paramount, especially to you. Stay in prayer for her and stay on her case about the idolatry of catholicism. Blessings, BuffaloBilly

    • Howdy Char, I omitted some scriptures that apply to “those who have never heard the gospel of JESUS”. I told you that I thought that it would be unfair to catapault someone into the horrors of the tribulation if they had not heard the Gospel. Here are the scriptures to witness: Titus 2:11, Heb. 8:10-11, 10:16, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:2-3, and 1 Tim 2:4,6.
      Also, to reject the Gospel is not the same as putting it off. We reject what we don;t want; but we “think” about that which we might want later (sometimes later may be too late for many). Therefore, those who clearly reject the LORDSHIP of JESUS will be the ones to suffer through strong delusion and believe a lie. THAT seems just to me. As for a third revival–I think it will occur soon after the rapture when all those who “weren’t watching” and those who were putting off salvation will get it right with GOD and will lead this worldwide revival. In the meantime, we continue to witness and save souls from perdition, eh? Blessings, BuffaloBilly

    • Skywatcher

      Hi there, Char & DC!

      I have listened to Dr. David Jeremiah and other notable “old time” preachers throughout the years, and they have unanimously and adamantly stated that those who have heard the gospel and rejected Christ prior to the rapture, are the ones who would want Him the least afterwards. The reasoning was that if they really didn’t want Him when the times were good, then under the spirit of strong delusion, they definitely would NOT want anything to do with Him or anything holy when the times were bad, as the GT is going to be, especially after realizing they “missed the boat” of salvation. Their pride and arrogance will be greatly increased and nurtured by the Antichrist. These pastors gave several Scriptures to back this, but for the life of me, they won’t “come through” for me at the moment. Sorry!

      The strong spirit of delusion will rest upon their hearts the heaviest, because they had had an opportunity (or many) to receive the “pearl of great price” and didn’t. These people might share the news to others who had never heard the gospel before, but it will be very bittersweet for them, as they realize that they, themselves will NEVER go into “the Promised Land”. Their personal Hell will have begun at that time.

      As for being sealed until the day of redemption, that is NOT speaking of backsliders. One cannot be serving two masters, as Christ said, “He will love one and hate the other.” God is NOT in the habit of rewarding His children for bad behavior. One cannot be living for the world, self, sin, and Satan while leaving Christ outside of their lives, and still ridiculously believe they’re going to Heaven. In other words, we cannot live like Hell and expect to go to Heaven. As BB said, there’s “no fear of the Lord” there. No reverence, respect, or repentance.

      Rev. 3: 20 scene, “Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any man will hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”

      That’s talking about fellowship being restored. Once that fellowship has been broken, and they have left Christ outside the door of their heart/life, He is no longer a part in their life until they confess, repent, and resubmit to Him. Until such time, they have broken the seal of redemption. They will be given over to their own fleshly desires, as we see in Rom. 1: 24.

      As I explained to somebody on here the other day, once the individual has come out from under the protective covering of the blood of Jesus Christ, they are doomed, unless they repent and renew/restore their fellowship with Him through a time of serious repentance, PRIOR to the Rapture. This being “sealed unto the day of redemption” is so often taken out of context. It is the very dangerous Calvinistic doctrine seeping in, that teaches once saved, always saved. That’s utter nonsense! A lie from Satan! One is either under the blood of Christ or they’re not. They’re either clothed in His righteousness or wearing a smelly diaper of Diablos!

      If Christ should come while they’re out from under that protective covering, Exod. 12: 13, the “Death Angel” will take them out…into a Christless eternity.

      We have Paul’s wonderful oratory on those things that can never separate us from the love of God, in Rom. 8: 35. That’s a wonderful passage, but what most people overlook is that all those things that cannot separate us from the love of God are EXTERNAL elements. Our choice to receive Him in the first place was INTERNAL, and we can also internally chose to toss Him out on His ear, thereby removing the protective seal of the Holy Spirit, and forfeiting our salvation. The Holy Spirit is a perfect gentleman, and He will NOT stay where He is NOT welcome.

      It should be noted that God no more sends anybody into the tribulation period than He does into Heaven or into Hell! That is ALWAYS a cognitive choice on the part of each individual. That’s why it is ever so imperative that we obey the Great Commission NOW, trying to reach as many for Christ as we can. Once that trumpet has blown, and they’re on the other side of it, God will be the last thing on most minds! They’ll be in such a miserable state of regret and remorse… It is true, there are going to be 144,000 Jewish evangelists, but we are never told how many receive the message. I don’t mean to sound like a “downer”, but we must keep God’s Word in perspective, rightly dividing it, and taking our commission very seriously.

      God bless you, my dear sisters!

  • Howdy Skywatcher, Well, I don’t know what SDA means. I do know that he is rather anti-semitic with his railing on the Jews as Kazars, etc. None of that means anything to me as scripture tells us to pray for the peace of Jerusalem and THAT I do.

    He does have some other materials that aren’t half bad and the dvd that I recommended I bought and watched and am okay with.
    I used to support his ministry long, long ago, but when he dissed John Hagee (who is also wrong when he says that the Jews don’t need to be witnessed to) and obsessed about the JEWS, it became more of an agenda than a ministry and I was done. I still get his newsletter in case there is something of value in it, but that is the extent. Awaiting your reply, BB

    • Skywatcher

      Howdy, right back at ya, Bass slayer BB! I was out fishing yesterday afternoon! All I caught were a few nice rays of sun!

      “SDA” means Seventh Day Adventist. I have a couple of Marrs’ books and they are very good. God would have serious issues with his theology. I don’t really know anything about the man other than the little bit I read on him today.

      I severed all ties with Hagee; I found that his “newsletters” were NOT as newsy as they should’ve been! In other words, he wasn’t “letting the cat out of the bag” to his larger audience as to what he was up to doing. I found that very dishonest, i.e., ECT (moving into the ecumenical movement), and letting some heretics such as Glenn Beck, Joel Osteen, and other WoF clowns share his pulpit.

      I too, pray for the peace of Jerusalem! What does that mean to you? Don’t be surprised if you don’t hear from me before tomorrow! I’m going to bed now!

      God bless you, and all my other siblings in Christ!

      • Howdy Skywatcher, I just figured out what SDA was and no, I didn’t know that Texe Marrs was one. I have read a couple of his books and watched many dvds and VHS tales (before dvds) and never suspected a thing. I am saddened by thgis, but more saddened about what you said about John Hagee. If he has gone ecumenical than I will just pray for hima and that is all. Oh how the mighty are falling…When I pray for the peace of Jerusalem I am praying prophecy for the millenial reign of CHRIST when Jerusalem will truly be at peace. BASS SLAYER, huh?? Well, I didn’t want to brag or let the cat out of the bag, but…wait until you read my book–if the publisher ever gets it done. Thanks for the compliment in the other email. I try to give good, sound, Biblical council and distinguish between “Thus saith THE LORD” and “Thus saith BuffaloBilly”. I hope that people see that. Blessings to you my brother, BuffaloBilly

  • Char

    BuffaloBilly, thank you so much for your time consuming answer. I know it took you a while to get it together. I appreciate your caring. I hope you are right about them. I believe my daughter was saved at an Andrew Wommack seminar and then she went to his Bible College for a year, and like I said in another post, that she then (or Satan) decided she should go back and look up her old friends and it was downhill from there. She quit school and is with the old “friends” now. You stated that everyone will have heard the gospel before the tribulation, but I was thinking that some might not have and will hear it from the 144,000 during the tribulation, but of course, I am concerned that my own children will remember what they were taught before the rapture and will apply it by not taking the Mark 666. I can only pray for them right now. I, by the way, got to speak to my son and daughter-in-law yesterday. I drove up in the driveway and they were in the garage and he’s going through some stressful stuff at work right now, so I got in a little 5 minute sermon. You could have heard a pin drop. I always think later, I should have said this and I should have said that, but I hope what I did say sunk in and they are thinking about it now. Thank you again and God Bless! I pray for your and Skywatchers loved ones and will also pray for DC’s family.

    • Howdy Char, You are so eloquent with me. Thanks! When you get the chance, ask your daughter directly if she actually asked JESUS into her heart and confessed him before men. IF so, then she is saved according to the scriptures. Then go over the ones that I sent you that deal with watching, being found worthy, and purifying one’s self. Tell her that you have been told that those who are in sin at the time of the rapture will not be found worthy and may go through the tribulation. I think that the scriptures I sent you on that are adequate. I will tell you, go to and click on their store to buy dvds. They should have a sale of two prophecy conferences for $99. The conferences sell for $150 each new so it is quite a deal. I was at both of the Orlando conferences (I am in Florida) and they were excellent. Both conferences from Colorado Springs were good, too. Opt for the Orlando ones. You will be amazed and delighted by the info provided by these pastors at these conferences. It is well-worth the money. In them you will see info that you will want your daughter to see to get her back in GOD’S graces. GOD says in HIS WORD that I will heal them of their backsliding (JER 3:22, Hosea 14:4). Pray these scriptures when you pray for your daughter. Effective prayer is when we pray GOD’S WORD back to HIM because we know that it is HIS will. Also, everyone will hear the Gospel (I sent you those scriptures later). About your son-in-law…tell him that if there is no GOD, then he has nothing to worry about and can continue his life as he wants. BUT….if there is a GOD, then he might want to know what that GOD has to say and might want to change his ways. Tell him without a GOD, both your chances are 100% as you have not lost a minute’s sleep by leading a righteous life. BUT…..if there is a GOD, his chances are 0% in his present condition and your are still 100%. Let him know with a smile that you like your odds better than his. You’ll (hopefully) hear an atom drop! Just love them into the LORD!!!!!
      Stay in touch and let me know when you have a breakthrough so that we can praise GOD together. May GOD Richly Bless You and reward your prayers for your family, Buffalobilly

      • Skywatcher

        Good morning, my dear brother in Christ (and all)! I have to say a huge “AMEN” to your recommending the DVD’s to Char! I have those DVD’s, and they are worth their weight in platinum! There is MUCH info there that the WHOLE Church should be hearing about, but their lazy, sleezy, and cowardly pastors are keeping it from them! is an excellent site!!!!! As you all can see, I subscribe to prophecynewswatch too, and enjoy it very much!

        Here’s a link you folks might want to check out in regards to prophecy! It’s not a good story, but it is what N. America has to look forward to if a socialist government takes over!

        Here’s another news story: Predicting crime before it happens!

        As for praying for the peace of Jerusalem, we are on the same page. I take it a step further, I also believe that when I’m praying for the “peace of Jerusalem”, I’m actually praying for the Prince of Peace to come (rapture). Either way, Jerusalem is NOT going to have peace until He arrives on the scene, and that’s worthy of getting excited about! 🙂 Don’t stop praying for it!

        I’m anxiously awaiting your Scales & Tales Memoirs fishing book! Hopefully, by the time it gets published, our dollar will be at a closer par to your own, and I can afford to buy one! 🙂 Currently, all my buying from the USA has ceased because of that reason.

        I must read some more comments and get myself to work! God bless you, Bro., and all who happen by here today! Keep the home fires burning brightly for Jesus!

        • Howdy Skywatcher, I’ll get you the book somehow. Inside you will find a chapter of one of my close encounters and some photos. Thanks for the kindness (as usual). I always pray for the peace of Jerusalem as well as some other standard “thanks” and requests. Another website you may know about–or not–is Gary Stearman has left prophecy in the news and started his own website and ministry. They are having a prophecy conference this July in Colorado . It has just sold out. Check out the lineup of speakers–it promises to be awesome. Prophecyinthenews is also having a conference in June in Colorado Springs. I would like to attend that one too, but can’t stay away from home that long–it’s prime bass-fishing time and I like to stalk those big momma bass in hopes of landing one 16 lbs. and up. Kindly, BB PS I will check out the links you gave me later this evening. I have to help a friend move and have a Bible sturdy tonight. Blessings

          • Skywatcher

            Yes, Gary Stearman is a wonderful brother in Christ, and very knowledgeable! In some ways, you are so blessed to live in the USA…that’s where all the really exciting ministry happens, and the not-so-exciting ministry “stuff”. 🙂

            One must keep one’s priorities straight! You can only fish for so long, so you have to grab every opportunity you can! If you need help with the moving, ask Trump! I’m hearing that he is quite the mover and the shaker! 🙂 Stand waaaayyyyy back when the “shaker” part starts to kick in! He was anointed by a bunch of Charismatic clowns, I hear! 🙂 My bad!

            God richly bless you, and keep you from injury whilst moving your friend! Will catch you on the flip side!
            PS: I’m anxiously looking forward to seeing and reading about your “close encounters” of the natural kind! 🙂

          • DC

            I love Gary Stearman and was sad when he left PITN, but Dr. Kevin Clarkson is good, too, as is the guest host they sometimes have (forgot name.) I need to watch this past week’s program on line b/c twice when I remembered it was on it was half over. Did you see the author they had on talking about his book The Babylon Code? Freeeky! I have watched some of Gary’s interviews online too. I like Avi Lipkin and pretty much anyone he has on.
            BB you crack me up with the fishing. My husband’s the same. We’ve had record highs and snows here in MI, and he’s bummed that he can’t go ice fishing–someone went thru the ice just last week. I’ve learned 10 different ways to fix fresh bluegill though! Lots in the freezer.
            As they say, “Keep Looking Up,” guys and gals!

  • Char

    Skywatcher, thank you also for your input on this subject of salvation during the GT. I’m like W.C. Fields, he was always looking for a loophole to get him to heaven! I know that you and BB and DC have the same burden that I have for loved ones and many others do too, so we are all in the same boat, so to speak, when it comes to their salvation NOW and not later, if then. Thank you again and I always appreciate your prayers for our families and I will keep praying for all of yours! Did you read in my comment to BB that I drove into the driveway and my son and DIL were in the garage yesterday, so God gave me an opportunity to talk to them while they were still sober. It was very quiet while I spoke to them, but I know that they understood what I was saying. Like I told BB, I always think I should’ve said this and I should’ve said that, but I know what I did say was from the Holy Spirit telling them what they did need to hear at the time. My daughter in law is always telling me that she prays for her family, but I don’t have the nerve to tell her that her prayers are not heard by God because of her unbelief. She would get very upset with me and I don’t want to be on the wrong side of her. I know I will have to tell her some day, but not just yet. God Bless!

    • Skywatcher

      Good morning, L’il Sister!

      Yes, you remind me a little of W.C. Fields! 🙂 AT LEAST YOU ARE TRYING! But don’t forget…sometimes we can try a little too hard and get in God’s way. Chuckle, chuckle!

      Yes, I read you post to BB, and DC and was quite excited to hear that. Last evening, I was soooo tired and yet, I wanted to share a little with my family from far away.

      In regards to your d-i-law, it’s best to drop a little “seed” here and there, however…she says she prays for her family! That was REALLY EXCITING to hear about! That’s a start, and it tells me she has some faith in God, or she wouldn’t bother wasting her time in prayer. In her sober state, she may be more receptive to the gospel than we think. But you must be “wise as a serpent and gentle as a dove”. Tread softly and gently when speaking to her. Show her the same kind of love, grace, and tender compassion that our Lord has shared with us.

      Ask her if she ever has any questions about God and the hereafter that she would like some answers to. WE ARE ALL TOO WILLING TO HELP YOU OUT THERE, SIS! JUST ASK! Ask her if she ever senses God’s presence in her life, especially when she is praying for her family. Does He speak back to her? If so, ask what He’s been saying to her. Be sure to encourage her to continue to pray for them, and then say, “Honey, you know something…there really is one prayer that the Heavenly Father longs to hear from you. He loves you so much! Pause… He wants to hear you say, God, I’m a sinner, and I need your forgiveness, and your blessing. Jesus, would you please forgive me of my sins and be my Savior and Lord?”

      That way, you don’t have to tell her that currently, her prayers are NOT being heard. You can use that admission on her part as a “door opener” to more conversation. You both have more than your son in common; you both pray to the same God! Ask her to tell you when she has invited Christ into her life, so that you can rejoice with her.

      Just use general conversation to open with that will eventually hit upon her spiritual nerve and crack her wide open for Jesus! Before you leave their presence, be sure to tell she and your son, that you love them both, and want only God’s very best for them. (Hugs all around!)

      You have the Holy Spirit as your guide; I’m just trying to give you some tools to work with on this very exciting journey! Something NOT TO DO: make sure you talk to them about everyday things, and NOT always “preaching” at them. That’s the way they will perceive it if God HAS to be in every conversation. This will shut them off to hearing God’s Word if you cannot relate to them on everyday topics of conversation. That little tidbit just jumped right into my head before I hit the post button…

      God Bless you, abundantly, as you seek HIS kingdom and instruction!

  • Char

    BuffaloBilly, thanks for the info on the DVDs from Prophecy in the News. I will look for those on their website and for all the scriptures you mentioned.

    Yes, I will keep you updated as to any good news of my children accepting the Lord, in fact, if they do, you & Skywatcher will have to turn down the volume on your computers cuz me and the angels will be shouting so loud the praises and thanks to the Father for my children’s salvation! God Bless!

    • Skywatcher

      Char, my speakers and I gladly welcome the challenge! I don’t think you will jar them a bit, but as for me…I can’t say that! I’ll be doing a dance in the Spirit when I get the news! King David didn’t have the corner on that market! Patiently waiting!

  • DC

    Wow, what an outpouring of love and understanding you’ve all given me! I am overwhelmed. You do give me hope, and I was starting to lose that. I know we are in a spiritual warfare and the evil one is trying to get me to doubt, but our God is Awesome, and I will never give up.

    Char, my heart goes out to you for your struggles with family. I have a brother, whom I love dearly, who has been an angry, volatile man for 25 years, and he drinks every night. He barely has a relationship with his kids (one’s almost failing every class and he can’t be bothered to go to P-T conferences or help the poor kid) and is very impatient with our mom; she always has to walk on eggshells b/c she never knows when he’s going to go off on her. I’m too far away to be of much help. He did have a traumatic event years ago, but rather than deal with it and get counseling or turn to the Lord, he numbs himself. I mean, isn’t 25 yrs. enough self-punishment? Most prison sentences are shorter than that. He’s mad at the whole world and has no desire to change.

    The Lord never meant for us to have all these worries, but between family, friends, and country, there sure is enough to pray about! Again I want to thank the three of you for praying for me. I finally know what it means to “pray without ceasing” and I do, for you too.
    God Bless you all.

    • Skywatcher

      DC, you’re more than welcome! That’s part of what being a family is all about…being there for the rough and rocky times, as well as the good! Something that helps me when I get into the place you were almost in, is to force myself to sing love songs to Jesus! Worship and praise choruses, and the old time hymns! I play piano, and sometimes, I can sit for hours and by the time we’re (God and I) finished, the burden is replaced with a refreshing peace and joy! In a sense, I’ve changed my spiritual wardrobe, and am quite comfortable and content in my new clean robe of righteousness!

      Have you ever heard of Pastor Louis Giglio? He has a wonderful DVD series called, “Passion Talk Series”, and let me tell you…it is absolutely edifying beyond comprehension! He is so exciting to listen to, that even my eldest daughter that we’re praying for, enjoyed it, and wanted to see more!

      I trust this will help, and I also, appreciate all your prayers for my loved ones! God bless you, Sis, with peace, joy, and a song in your heart today! He loves you the same today as He did yesterday! His love never changes and it cannot, for God is love, I Jn. 4: 8, 16, and God NEVER changes: Heb. 3:8! 🙂

      • DC

        Thanks SW, I will look Pastor Louis up. I listen to a lot of Christian music and it always seems that I turn it on to hear just the song I needed that day. Have you ever heard Lauren Daigle (“Lord I Need You”)or Plumb? They both sing with strong emotion that speaks to me. I shared a link to some Casting Crowns videos the other day, and they are the best. Lead singer Mark Hall just went through cancer; what a testimony. My kids gave me tickets to see them a couple years ago and I was hoarse by the time I left, singing along, making a joyful noise!

        It’s great that you can play piano. What a gift! I tried to teach myself when I was a kid and we inherited an old piano from the closed-down Catholic school. My grandma had a little electric organ that I played every day after school. I DID have accordion lessons and played alto sax in band. I am now sorry I ever stopped.

        • Skywatcher

          DC, I’m like you…I love music that touches the soul! I took advantage of the link you posted the other day, and listened while I went about my tasks.

          As for playing the piano, let me share this with y’all, as they say in the SOWTH! 🙂 That’s not a typo! That’s a drawl! For a number of years, I was drawn to the organ or piano. A dear neighbor had a small chord organ, and she would from time to time, patiently listen as I painfully tried to make the right things happen. Bless her heart!

          When I turned 13, my grandmother bought me a chord organ for my birthday! I was doing quite well on it, but the left hand was pushing chord buttons and not playing the keys. I could play hymns to “beat the band”, as they say…with the right hand! When I got near a piano, I had so much music in me that wanted to come out, and I could NOT get any two keys to come together on the left hand to sound like anything! Nothing would “gel”!

          I’m skipping much here to keep this short, as most of you know, I could write a book! Three years later, the pastor of a tiny new Pentecostal church up the road about 3/4 of a mile dropped in for a visit; he had heard through my mom’s Fuller Brush man that I could play. While there, he asked if I would play a little for him, and I shyly showed him what I could do. I was not prepared for what followed! He said, “We need a pianist for our new church, would you consider playing for us?” I swallowed a huge gulp, right after I got my eyes to come back into the created recesses they suddenly forgot they belonged in!

          Of course, I humbly bucked and hesitated; he said it was a small congregation and that we could grow together, and they would be patient with me. THEY SURE WERE! Bless ’em all! The pastor showed me the F C G chord for the left hand, and gave me a key to the church. EVERYDAY on my way home from school, and I stopped in to practice for 2 or more hours each day…every day. It kept me out of sight of my abusive alcoholic father.

          On Saturdays, I was there all day and Sunday afternoons! The pastor would tell me in advance what the hymns were going to be for the following services, and I flew into them with a passion that couldn’t be matched! Sometimes, he’d even play a trumpet solo with ME accompanying him! Those were the days!

          I had prayed and asked the Lord for His mighty help in this and WOW! Did He ever come through! Praise the Lord! After a few hiccups during the occasional service, and the people kept singing as I tried to find my place, then I took off like a whirlwind! I laugh when people on here call me “proud” or “arrogant”! One doesn’t come through that experience feeling proud! The poor congregation really didn’t have any choice in the matter…I was all they had! They were stuck with me, but they greatly encouraged me after the service!

          I played for church sometimes 7 times/week (apart from my practice times). Eventually, if I went to visit a church for any reason, the pianist or organist upon seeing me walk in, would IMMEDIATELY get up, run to me, and ask if I would play in their place…to give them a break! These were people who had taken music lessons and had played for years! I felt it was ME who needed the break!

          I always gave in and many times, I’ve had people come up to me with light in their eyes and excitement in their voices, ” Man! You play like Liberace! How many years did you take music lessons?! Who did you study under? How many years have you been playing?” etc. I always just simply told them…”My Music Teacher was right OUT of this world!” And, then I’d point heavenward, and they didn’t doubt it for a minute! That was after playing for about a year! There were times that I played that piano so hard, that it literally ROCKED and I had to shove my knees up against the actual keyboard itself, to hold it steady to play on!

          God developed my voice at the same time, giving me a set of lungs that a firetruck would be hard pressed to match at that time! I sometimes had to lead the congregation in song with my head turned sideways because we didn’t have a PA system yet, and they were behind me. Vestal Goodman and I would’ve made an excellent couple! Consequently, I have a powerful strong voice when I sing, and I don’t care! I’m rehearsing for Heaven, and I’m not holding anything back from the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, who gave it to me in the first place!

          There were times that I couldn’t continue singing while I was playing, as my heart was so full of worship, praise and adoration. I’d choke up, and it felt like I had a pumpkin in my throat, while the tears flowed down my cheeks, with hands uplifted in praise to my Lord. The congregation carried on without me! Miracles used to happen in that church in those days! Drunks were sobered instantly! Cancers were healed; marriages were restored! Families were reunited, etc. etc.! Not anymore! The Purpose-Driven Church has gotten in there and driven the Holy Spirit right out! So sad! I won’t darken the doors anymore, and I spent a huge chunk of my life in that building in service to our Lord. Moving on…

          God taught me to play in several keys, how to sight read music, how to transpose from one key to another for whole pieces of music, etc. I can listen to a tune and pick it right up on the keyboard. Sometimes, I even play a song without ever hearing it before, as someone starts to hum the tune. I’ve played for weddings, funerals, local Princess Teas, and other functions, including cantatas, directing and playing at the same time. Why? Because I didn’t let fear rob me of the blessing God had in store for me for so long, and I don’t know one note from another! That’s God!

          Something happened in Bible College that really humbled me! I was in the college Ensemble, singing tenor. We were out on weekend assignment, which took us to many churches across Ontario, Canada. We had a fabulous pianist/organist that was right OUT OF THIS WORLD!!! I’ll never forget Joanne! Red-head and strange! But the music that little lady could put out, would make the angels weep with joy!

          Well, our music teacher/director for the college was going to sing a solo at one of the churches, “One Day At a Time”. He came to ME and asked ME to accompany HIM! I thought he was joking! However, this man was not much of a joker and he was serious. I accompanied him in front of the largest congregation I had EVER played before. There had to be several thousand in attendance, and I played just as I usually did…for my Lord, and I knew He was pleased! But, what an experience…to think that my music teacher would come to me, of all people, who didn’t know a note from a stitch! Man! He sure could sing! A year later, I was playing that same song for my 19 year old sister’s unexpected funeral.

          If I had declined that pastor’s offer that day years ago, I would not have accomplished what I did for Christ in music ministry. I would still not know how to put two keys together to make a good sound! Hymns and worship and praise choruses are my forte`. I can play those for hours, and not need a book in front of me, closing my eyes, and quietly worshipping our Lord! NOBODY knows how to worship God until they get to a place like that! I’m sorry…it’s just another totally blissful world, that this world can NEVER know anything about without that personal experience! God is in it!

          Now before any readers out there think I’m braggin’ on myself, NOT AT ALL! I tell you this, to encourage you! When God has placed a strong desire in your heart, and a passion for something that He can use for His honor and His glory…He can bring it to pass…when you invite Him to be the Lead Role in it! You will have no idea how much God wants to use YOU to bless others, if you continue to decline invitations and offers! Why, let me tell you… God got on a roll! Yes HE DID! I moved from the piano to the accordion, the organ, the Harmonica, a little guitar, chimes, and xylophone! I haven’t had access to anything else yet, to know if I can play them or not! 🙂 I don’t play anywhere anymore, except one night a week…I do a little senior’s ministry; I love them, and they love me!

          So, DC, you might be a little rusty at the moment! Dig that squeeze box out, reacquaint yourself with it, and ask the Lord to bring it all back for you…and not to stop there! When the electricity is gone, it’s going to be good to have some form of music around, that doesn’t require electricity! Practice to be a blessing! 🙂

          If there are others of you out there, who are allowing your gifts and talents to go neglected and unappreciated…what’s your excuse? Why are you robbing yourself and others of blessings? Why aren’t you honoring God with it? Get with it! Enjoy yourselves in the Presence of the MOST HIGH God, and expect to be lifted up into heavenly places in worship, praise and adoration of Him! It’s rehearsal time!

          God bless y’all!

          • DC

            What a great story, Skywatcher. I’m sure you were a blessing to that church.I had a hard time coordinating the left hand with the right, but I’ve always loved music. I have to sing loudly to get anything out, and my kids were always embarrassed, but, as hardly anyone else in church would sing, of course I sounded loud.

            My accordion and saxophone are long gone, but we still have a keyboard I’ll have to play on one of these days. My son lost the book that goes with it, so I don’t know what half of the buttons do. Someone once said that singing is praying twice, and I know it does indeed make me feel closer to God.

            Thanks for sharing that!

    • Howdy DC, You are a blessing to us all also, and to those on this site who may not recognize the fact. I will pray extra hard for your brother and nephew. In CHRIST Always, BB

      • DC

        Thanks. I’ve been praying for him for 25 years. He needs the Lord in his life so much.

        • Skywatcher

          DC, you said, “I don’t know what half of the buttons do.” That’s the beauty of these things! Those buttons are there for YOUR enjoyment! Mix and match until you find various settings that appeal to you; have fun with them! Thank you, for the compliment! GB!

  • Char

    Skywatcher, DC and BB, Good morning to all. I grabbed my cup of coffee and sat down at my computer to read the comments that I so enjoy from ALL you Holy Spirit filled folks. Thank you so much for your kind words. I need to have you in my pocket sometimes cuz I’m not real good at speaking to people, especially my being her mother-in-law. Sometimes I say things and she takes them all wrong, so I, like DC’s mom have to walk on eggshells because she will come back at me for something I didn’t know I even said. So, anyway, I will try and do as you say and just talk a little bit to her during the day about prayer and see where it gets me. This house is sometimes very chaotic, so I have to hopefully choose the correct times. She can be sweet at times (I just have to figure out when those times are). lol

    DC, your mom sounds like me. Many times I’ve had to run upstairs and pull my son off of my daughter because they are both drunk and he wants to throw her out the door. He never hits though, just yells very loud. It gets very nerve racking sometimes, but I have to trust in the Lord, as do all of us to get us through these trying situations. Your brother probably couldn’t stop drinking now on his own, only through the Lord and/or rehab. We will keep him in our prayers also. I, like you, try not to get depressed and feeling sorry for myself. I married an alcoholic cuz I wanted following the Lord way back then, so it’s my fault for not following the Lord and marrying someone He would’ve chosen for me.

    Just so you all know, I ordered the set #1 of the Orlando conference and am anxiously awaiting to see it. I will order others too.

    Thank you folks for caring and the much needed prayers for this household. I have to say, things have been quiet for a while because my son told her she’s not allowed to drink in this house (although he and the wife do every night), so she stays out all night then comes home shaking like a leaf til she pops a half dozen Xanax’s. They all pop Xanax’s in the morning to keep from shaking. Fun life, huh? If they only knew what the Lord could do for them. Some day they will, I’m sure! God bless!

    • Howdy Char, I’VE GOT IT!!!!! The next time your daughter-in-law says that she prays for someone or something, or just prays…ask her if she would mind telling you what she is praying for and that you would be glad to help her or pray with her. If she agrees, lead her in prayer about those issues (A true tender moment). You will also be establishing a new and better bond.
      Soon, you’ll be able to get her to pray the sinner’s prayer that Skywatcher recommended and I bet you will find her a lot more receptive. Now if she is praying about your son (her husband) you both have something very dear in common and you can let her know that you are praying for him too. Let her know that where two or three are gathered in my name–there I am also (JESUS”S words and she needs to know that). You will be able to show her scriptures more easily then. You are going to be so happy–I just know it. You’ll love the dvds that you ordered. Start with the 2015 conference and find the ones with Gary Frazier to begin. He is awesome. He has a dvd ARE YOU READY and one that says HELL IS FOR REAL. These are separate dvds from the conference but well-worth having. The one in the conference is called IT COULD HAPPEN TOMORROW. Start with that one. You are going to be Happy, Happy, Happy!!! Now wait on the HOLY SPIRIT to move. The enemy will want us to be impatient and act in haste so be careful to obey the urgings of the HOLY SPIRIT. I am so excited for you…GOD BLESS YOU and your FAMILY, BB

      • Skywatcher

        A huge AMEN, to that Bro. BB! EXCELLENT COUNSEL AND VERY TIMELY!!!
        Thanks, for that insight, BB! That’s why we’re a body! Each part brings a little something different to the whole! AWESOME! GB!

    • Skywatcher

      Hey there, Char!

      Brother BB is dead on correct! Tender moments are what is needed! Your d-in-law needs to see you as a friend, and NOT as the world has so foolishly colored mother-in-laws to be! Don’t be too eager to share a lot of Scripture, but be a good listener! You’re on a heavenly assignment, and that includes good listening skills. Allow her to open up and vent if need be, and just accept it as coming from a hurting child. She has a lot pent up inside and will need to know that she can speak freely to you w/out judgment. Be a friend and start there. She’s drinking for a reason…something/someone is missing in her life. At a time like this, she needs unconditional love and encouragement and YOU’RE the one that God has placed in her life to do this.

      If possible, start doing things together when she is sober. Go shopping, take a drive, a walk…everybody could use a good walk, and it’s a great time to talk and to bond… Whooo hoooo! This ole Skywatcher is getting mighty excited, and wish we could all be there with you in person on this exciting venture! We’re there in Spirit and in prayer! With God, there is never any distance in prayer! We love you! GB!

  • Char

    BB,thank you for the tips. When she said she prays, it’s always after my son (her Husband) acts up in some way and (the saga continues) their son is living with a bipolar gal that blows up quite often, so she quite often tells me that she’s praying for him because he says he feels trapped (she’s pg). I know you folks are probably thinking I got this from a Jerry Springer Show or I made it up, but it’s life in my world. We have this very large house that my son and I bought together 10 years ago (when they were just casual drinkers and I wasn’t a Christian) and thank the Lord, I have my own place downstairs from them, but I can’t help knowing what’s going on upstairs. I know I’ve spilled my guts here, but my children and grandchildren are on my mind all the time because of their fallen state, which includes the alcoholism. Thank you for your concern. God Bless! I promise not to keep blabbing about my personal problems. It seemed to just morph into my telling my story. I’m so thankful to the Lord that He gets me through on a daily basis (and you folks help me too with your comments and prayers).

    • Howdy Char, Have you ever considered that the LORD orchestrated all this for us to help and edify each other. Doesn’t Acts 8-10 kinda reveal that THE LORD moves in such ways?? You are not babbling about anything. You have opened your heart in trust and Skywatcher, DC and I have responded as the SPIRIT has moved us. That’s what the body of CHRIST is really for–not railing at each other as some of those in deception do. Have you rebuked any unclean spirits from your house? I would do that every night until they are gone. It sounds to me that the demon spirits of alcoholism and anger are present in your house and in your grandson’s–mostly because they are not in GOD’S will and encouraging that manifestation. YOU, dearest one, are the force that withstands all that and now you have reinforcements that our LORD has sent you. Stand against the evil in prayer and rebuke in the name of JESUS. Ask questions later. Always remember–Greater is HE that is in you than he that is in the world. The battle is the LORD’S and we are the warriors in prayer. Love in CHRIST, BB

      • Skywatcher

        AMEN! AMEN! AND AMEN! Hey, Sibling Saints…is it just me, or have you noticed that there are only four of us commenting on this post recently? The flesh says that’s quite a tell-tale “sign” that there may not be that many Christians checking in to see what role they can play in this venture. I KNOW there ARE MANY MORE than us four who are praying together for our loved ones!

        To those of you, who are praying behind the scenes for us and our lost loved ones, THANK YOU, so VERY MUCH! You know who you are and God knows, and we appreciate your assistance in this manner! You are equally valuable to this venture, and we LOVE YOU for it! We look forward to meeting you on that golden strand in the very near future, with our loved ones to show off to you…the work of YOUR enjoined labors of love toward us! God bless you!

        • TRacy

          Don’t mean to interfere; however, remember a few days ago, I said that all of us have a “story”, some worse than others, but we all have one to share. Therefore, reading these comments so enlightened me, and just filled my heart with so much love for the brethren. Sharing and caring for one another is a wonderful feeling. We are all going thru “something”, but I believe it just keeps us closer to our Lord and Savior. No doubt, He hears us!
          @DC, Char and others, God knows our hearts, and in His timing His Will be done.
          God Bless all of you each and every day.

          • Skywatcher

            TRacy, you’re NOT interfering! 🙂 You’re more than welcome to jump right in! We don’t have a corner on God’s love, blessings, or opportunities to minister to each other and others! You’re family, and you belong here! The bigger the family reunion, the more joy there is to spread around in ministry to each other!

            You’re absolutely correct, and I do remember you saying that we each have a story to tell. God is so good because the story just isn’t complete without Him in it!

            God bless you, dear sister! So good to hear from you! 🙂

          • DC

            It’s funny how this started out as an article on false teachers, then I asked about the RCC, and we’re now having “group therapy!” Do any of you remember the old Bob Newhart show when he played a psychiatrist and had that corny group of patients? I always loved his dry humor.
            Glad you felt you could chime in, Tracy.
            Love & Fellowship

      • DC

        Billy, I’ve thought the same thing. When people aren’t getting “fed” at church anymore, they start a home church.

    • DC

      The Springer comment made me smile. I know just how you feel. Don’t you dare criticize yourself for sharing your personal problems. We all hold each other up when others let us down. My family puts the FUN in dysfunctional! It almost seems like we lived parallel lives. I was always a rescuer, married (& divorced) twice to a controlling man and an alcoholic pothead. I still pray for them both every night, and it took me a long time to forgive myself for the sin of divorce, but our God is Awesome and He gave me the wonderful man I’m married to now. (told you I felt like the woman at the well.) My brother-in-law finally has a job after two years of letting my sister support him. It goes on and on. Keeping it all in does damage, so by all means let it out. I am in no position to judge anyone, and I understand your pain. A lot of my own was self-induced, but thanks to the Lord, He has healed my broken heart.
      Keep your chin up, sister.

      • Skywatcher

        Ha haaa! DC, you made me laugh out loud when you said, “My family puts the FUN in dysfunctional!” That’s rich! It reminded me of my music motto that I made up and adopted when playing for funerals, “I put the word ‘fun’ back into funeral”! When I played for funerals, I cut loose! I put a swag on some of those old hymns, bringing them to life, just the way the writer intended, only when I knew the deceased was a child of God. “All things must be done decently and in order”! 🙂 Not a single soul ever complained, and the deceased stayed right where they were put! 🙂

        If we never had problems, we would never know that He could solve them. That’s a line out of “Through It All”. God allows each and every one of us to have our own walk with Him, so we can share with others just what He is capable of doing…if we allow Him, and don’t get in His way!

        He allows us to make mistakes so that we can grow to rely upon Him, getting stronger, and developing more character. Nothing catches our Lord off guard, and He truly is there…through it all! When we have experienced the love, grace, and mercy of our Lord for ourselves, it is quite easy to share it with others, don’t you find?

        I too, am enjoying this one on one ministry. Hey! Has anybody seen our dear brother Geoffrey around? Did we drive him out into Super Tuesday, leaving us alone, with all this love and compassion? Come back Geoff! There’s enough of God’s love to go around! We love ya, Bro!

        • DC

          You would’ve done well in New Orleans, where they celebrate one’s death with lively music. Of course, the city is full of debauchery other times (i.e. Mardi Gras.)

          I still want Geoff to put a special link where people can put prayer requests. I keep coming back to this article b/c of what we’ve been discussing, but I know there are people all over the site with hurt and need.

  • Char

    Skywatcher, thank you so much for your advice also. I have asked her many times to go out to lunch with me or even shopping and she makes up an excuse. She ONLY will go places with my son because they end up at a bar. I would LOVE for you all to be here with me to pray for them too. We could have a great, old fashioned prayer meetin’ like we used to have in the old days. I was raised in my Dad’s Pentecostal church, but I never gave my heart to the Lord until recently, but I remember those prayer meetings, and being out of God’s will, I mistakenly married an alcoholic. I can look back now and see that the Lord had His hand on me all the way through all the mistakes I made before I came to Him. I’m sure my Mom and Dad did plenty of praying for me and my sisters back in the day. So now I know that I will see them again, hopefully very soon. God Bless you all!

  • Char

    BB, thank you again for all your concern and love in the Lord. I am wiping my eyes right now, because you have brought me to tears (true). I mentioned in another comment that since I can’t find a good church that preaches the doctrine correctly, that I have prayed for Christian fellowship and I believe God has answered my prayer on this website. I have to admit I have NOT rebuked any unclean spirits from my house, but I will do that starting tonight. There will soon be changes in this house and my children will reap the benefits of all your prayers and God answering them. Thank you again and God Bless!

    • Howdy Char, You are going to be so Happy–believe that! Love, BB

  • Char

    Skywatcher, Amen to you and you are correct that we have monopolized this post today, but perhaps the Lord knew I and perhaps you and BB needed it too. I will back off now and read my scriptures that you fellas gave me to read and will pray for ALL on this website. Perhaps they feel like they would be eavesdropping, but I hope not. I, for one, welcome all the true believers comments and prayers. Thank you ALL for your concern and prayers. God Bless to ALL!

  • Char

    SW, BB & DC, just a little update on what happened today….a quick story, my son had to go in front of a board for a deposition pertaining to his job because he’s in the union and he was a nervous wreck over it. So he finally had his appointment today in downtown Chicago. I was upstairs when he walked in the door a while ago and the first thing he said to me is “thanks Mom for praying for me today. It sure helped because it went just fine”. Isn’t that wonderful that he remembered to say that and I told him to give God the credit and glory for it. I was telling him yesterday to not be anxious for anything and quoted the verse to him. So, I’m on Cloud 9 over that little tidbit from him and wanted to share it with my prayer partners. Thanks again folks for praying for me and my family and I will continue to pray for yours. DC, you are kinda close by me since I’m in Illinois and you’re in MI. God Bless!

    • DC

      That’s great, Char! Also tell him that “perfect love casts out fear” and “fear not for I am with you.” See, you do make a difference! You are a great witness by continuing to go on in faith. Our kids, no matter their age, see that.
      Even with my marriage history, one son told me not long ago that I’m the only one with any faith–his dad and in-laws don’t talk about the Lord at all. I guess the farther we fall and the more the Lord has to reach for us, the more we appreciate it and can witness to it.

      Did you get all that snow today? I’m 20 miles inland from Lake MI and we got a foot. It was 50 degrees a few days ago, and will be 50 on Monday, but it was horrible today.

    • Skywatcher

      Char! That is EXCELLENT NEWS! That just makes me so happppppy! Praise the Lord! Step by step, a little at a time. He recognized God’s hand in his personal miracle! Hey, can we put a name on this lad? It doesn’t have to be his real name, and best if it isn’t! It just seems more “family-like” if we can identify him as something other than “son”. Just a thought.

      Sister, you have every right to be on “Cloud 9”! WOW! I knew something was soon going to break in this venture! That’s a wonderful start! Praise the Lord! Thanks, Char, for sharing that, and continuing to pray for all of us! WE love you!

  • Char

    DC, now YOUR comment about the old Newhart Show made ME smile! Yes, I still watch that on a cable channel. I can relate! Isn’t life fun? My family has often laughed and said we could make a million if we started a reality show like some of the crazy ones that are on now. Thank the Lord we have Him to go to when these things seem to get to be too much for us on our own. We (I know I) need Him every day, every hour, every minute to keep me from going to the funny farm.

  • Char

    DC, we live 50 miles west of Chicago. They cancelled many flights from O’Hare Airport and Midway and they didn’t get any of the snow they thought they were getting, so they cancelled flights for nothing. lol Later in the morning we got about a half an inch, so it was all a big to do for nothing. I’m ready for spring! It’s been a mild winter here, but I still would rather see green grass and mild weather. Yes, our children do watch and listen more than we think they do. Your son sees the difference in you, following the Lord, and his dad that follows the world. That’s a good thing! My kids dad has Alzheimers and every kind of ailment now, due to all the years of abuse of his body with the alcohol. We reap what we sow!

  • Char

    Skywatcher, yes, I was sooooo glad to hear that his appointment went well and even happier to hear what he said to me when he came in the door (before he even said hello to his wife). We will call him “Bob”. My daughter-in-law even said, “your mom prayed to the Lord today for you appointment to go well”. That is NOT something that she would say ordinarily, so things are changing a little at a time. Thank you guys for your prayers. Oh, and I enjoyed reading your comment to DC. Sounds like you could be a one man band. When we all get to heaven, you can sing and play the piano for us for a couple hundred years and I know we will be blessed by your performance. Goodnight and God Bless!

  • Howdy JKNBT, I was away at Bible study tonight so I could not respond to your answer promptly. Thank-you for getting back to me. The biggest issue that people on this particular post of Heidi Baker is that there are so many charlatans out there that are bilking money from an ignorant population, that people of faith normally use and preach from a Bible and that these same people do their ministries in the name of JESUS. None of this was evident in the video. Also, the young man in the throes of agony, coupled with some of the other background manifestations in others in attendance did not lend to any credibility on her part. My first observation was that there were no crosses evident anywhere around her–on or off the platform. This is always a red flag for me. As you must be aware, the apostate teachings of the Word of Faith movement, Rick Warren’s ministry, Rob Bell, Bill Hybels and all that ilk are removing their crosses so as not to offend anyone and their preaching is nothing more than seeker-friendly stuff (ala Joel O’Steen). There was really nothing in the video to convince me or all the others who had unfavorable comments about Heidi Baker that it was nothing more than demonic activities. Then of course, all this rhetoric leads to arguments about Bible Versions, what is spiritual, etc. and things tend to get carnal. I will be the first to admit that the minions of satan are usually the first ones to arrive at church, revivals and prayer gatherings. We are to be wary of their presence and their wiles. I won’t deny your defense and the explanation that you gave me later after you looked at the video, but I can’t agree that that may really be the case. WE DON’T KNOW FOR SURE. I try to stay detached and not let my emotions take control when I read these posts. I don’t think you are a bad person and don’t doubt your walk with Christ. I can see that in your expression. I think that your strong support of Heidi may have clouded your ability to see the side of those who doubted her credibility based on what the video showed. Then again, I could be wrong about everything… However, I am sure that you, me, DC, Skywatcher, Char, Tracy, and all the others who took the time to write these posts will have a good laugh and have a bunch of apologies to go around when we all are with THE LORD–if THE LORD lets us remember all this. I hope that this all makes sense. A brother in CHRIST, BuffaloBilly

    • jknbt

      I’m not sure what your question is…could you please clarify?

      It’s not my job to defend all of these people. I am not familiar with most of their ministries. Let their works defend them. By their fruits, you shall know them.

      Everything done for the Lord has to be done by faith.

      I am not a Universalist. Not everyone who says “Lord, Lord” will make it into heaven. There are lists of people in the scripture who are simply not going to be allowed into Heaven. Period. See Rom 1: 29-32; Eph 5: 3-7; 1 Cor 5: 9-11; 1 Cor 6: 9-10; Gal 5: 19-21; Rev 21: 8; Rev 22:15.

      Let me say this one more time: Pharisaical Blasphemers have no part in the Kingdom of God. They do not get into heaven. The worst sort of horrific judgement is waiting for them when they die.

      People who sin with unrepentant gross immorality and never repent have their names blotted off the Lamb’s book of Life, the citizenship role of heaven. Rev 3:5 They have lost their salvation if they ever had it. Do not be deceived.

      Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test? (2 Cor. 13:5).

      So I am putting out the warning in the name of the Lord Jesus: Stop blaspheming the Holy Spirit or suffer the consequences. Repent while you still can. The day comes with any persistent sin that the door of repentance is closed.

      You all have been warned.

      • Skywatcher

        jknbt, you said, “You all have been warned.” That right there is precious! My breaking wind on a stormy day has more potency than your “warning” has! First of all, you apparently have no biblical understanding of what blasphemy of the H.S. is! Secondly, you have NO authority to base your warning on! Thirdly, you have no authority to be correcting us, when we stand firmly upon the Word of God, with the confirmation of the Holy Spirit to back us up! We’re the one’s pointing out the Scriptural fallacies here, and YOU ARE the one defending them. So… really, who should be warned here? You might just want to practice this one:

        “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” I Jn. 4: 1

        Warning duly noted and discarded by the blood of the Lamb!

  • Howdy DC, I was at Bible study tonight and could not join in the festivities. If you freeze fish in water, they will taste as fresh as the day that they were caught. Another excellent site is Gary Stearman’s I recommended to Char to buy a couple of the prophecy conferences that prophecyinthenews had for sale on their website. If you like “Freeeeky”, then some of these presentations will suit your needs. My favorite conference is from the 2012 Bronson, Missouri conference. I attended the ones in Orlando (I am in balmy Florida-79 degree temps today) and both of those conferences were outstanding and one can see the back of my head in a few of the presentations. PITN will be having a conference in Colorado Springs this June and it should be excellent. Prophecywatchers is having a conference in July in the same place, but theirs is already sold out. You can live stream it though and that should be interesting. Oh yeah, down this way yonder we don’t sweat about falling through the ice. We do, however, keep an eye out for gators. In CHRIST, BB

    • DC

      Thanks for rubbing it in! 🙂 We have family in FL who love to tell us how warm it is there. No school again today here. The kids will be making up snow days till the 4th of July!

      How great that you’ve gotten to go to those conferences. Looks like another great line-up of speakers again.

      • Howdy DC, Oh my! Another day in the 70’s. Ho Hum! ha ha ha–just playing. My son lives in Michigan–says he likes the change of the seasons (this is for when we were talking). I told him that we have that too, just not as pretty in the fall or as severe in the winter. Yes, it gets hot and muggy in the summer, but I prefer shorts, sandals, and a tee to shoveling snow in ten layers of clothes. I have been blessed to attend those conferences. I do look forward to the one in July. I have never been to Colorado though I have been to all the surrounding states at one time or another. You know that I will have an outstanding report when I get home. I am so excited…I think that we should extend ourselves to JKNBT. I think that he has a lot to offer. We need to put the differences aside about Heidi Baker–Some of us are right about her and some of us are wrong..but we should not let her be a divisive tool for the enemy. What say you, Char, Skywatcher, Edwitness, Tracy, and the rest. I am assuming that they will read this post. I will be gone the rest of the day, but will join y’all this evening for a while. Blessings, BB

        • Skywatcher

          BB, I’m willing to bury the hatchet. How deep, did you say? KIDDING! I agree, we (they) should not allow the enemy to make a divisive tool out of it, but God’s Word already has. He came to bring a sword, not a pacifier, and therefore, some people will get hurt in the foray of the battle. This is a spiritual battle, and their souls are at risk. I love them too much, with the love of Jesus, to say, “Yes, you’re right, and I’m wrong, so you just go your merry way. I’ll send you some fire wood as my contribution from the millennial kingdom. It will burn perfectly clean, with no carbon emissions!”

          I see the similarities between them and the JW’s; neither likes to be told they’re on a biblically wrong course or that they are wrongly defending a charlatan. I will do as the Holy Spirit leads, without compromise. Nowhere in Scripture do we ever see Jesus or His disciples compromise.

          Looking forward to hearing from ya, BB after my Bible Study tonight! GB!

        • DC

          Billy, I left 2 responses to your 12:54 comment and neither of them showed up, so I’ll try again.

          1st one was that I am willing to dialogue w/ JKNBT but I don’t know much about the topic, other than, when speaking in tongues there has to be an interpreter for it to be legitimate.

          2nd one was about the seasons in MI. We have 2: winter and hunting season, according to my family. My brother, now in Escanaba, was the only one who moved more NORTH than where we were–to International Falls, MN, the “Icebox of the Nation.” He thinks it’s fun to freeze your buns off waiting for a bear or deer to walk by. I’ll watch Animal Planet for that kind of fun! 🙂

          • Howdy DC, I had to leave town for about 6 hours to go downstate. I am back now so I will try to catch up. I am a full-gospel, non-denominational Bible-believer. I do believe in the gift of tongues, but I don’t personally have that gift and don’t covet it. In the church, if one speaks in tongues to the congregation, then there must be an interpreter. Other than that, it is just inane babbling to me. Often when I go to a full-gospel church, members of the congregation will all be praying in their individual tongues and that is very distractive to me who is praying normally. I don’t see that as being scriptural so most of the time I attend a baptist church where I know they won’t speak in tongues because they think it has ceased (1 Cor 13). As for JKNBT, I will quote the immortal words of Luke Skywalker: “There is good in him…I can feel it”. Blessings, BB

  • Howdy Skywatcher, I have a DAKE Bible and will fill you in tomorrow when I get home 7 pm your time. I don’t really use it because I am still wearing out the one I have. I bought mine on a recommendation from a friend, have looked at it, and it passes muster. Tomorrow, BB

    • DC

      I’ve seen the comments about the DAKE bible. Would you please explain what it is?

      • Howdy DC and all, The DAKE Bible (mine anyway) is a KJV. It is divided into 3 columns on each page. The middle is the scripture, the left hand is an explanation, description, or definition of a word or phrase in the text that illuminates what is being read, and the right column is commentaries on the text of that page, the salient points to enlighten the reader. There is a section on only questions from the old Testament, explanation of prophecy in the OT, questions from the NT, a concordance and cyclopedic index as well as maps and diagrams of the ages of dispensation. I think that it is really a cool Bible for studying the WORD. I paid $100 for mine as I wanted the BIG one. It is more of a reference Bible for me though as I continue to read the KJV that I have with all my notes and documentations in it. My notes help to refresh my mind when I reread a chapter for the umpteenth time. I have read nothing negative about it, but I reckon that I will try to see what the opposition says about it. I think that is a good Bible to have, but…who knows for sure. The thing to do is to go to a Christian bookstore and ask to see one. Look at it and make a decision for yourself apart from what I said. I may not have discovered the “evil” in it yet though I don’t think that there is any. Blessings Y’all, BB

        • Skywatcher

          BB, thanks, for you info on the Dake’s Bible. I guess my question should’ve been worded differently.I was just wondering if it stood all the tests for accuracy.

          I’m not interested in buying one, and for DC, Char, Tracy, etc., I would discourage anybody from buying one if they already have and use the KJV. Many of us are getting polluted with this Bible and that Bible, and we only ever read the one we’re used to, and then money has been wasted. Most of us cannot afford to do that these days.

          Another problem is, a mess of Bibles over a period of time with commentary, is like a forum, they can end up with numerous conflicting opinions on the same passage and get quite confused, distraught, and eventually just give up altogether.

          Respectful to you, BB, I have to say that one could never find any doctrinal descrepancies by going to a Xtn bookstore and glancing through one, as you suggested….if they didn’t know which specific ones to look for.

          I think I have more bibles than the Vatican, and I still only use the two KJV’s that are beside me on my desk. The rest are there, should I need to find a discrepancy or to show one off.

          Thank you, brother, for your valuable input on the topic! 🙂

          • Howdy Again Skywatcher, As for the DAKE Bible, I have one, but as I said in an earlier post, I still continue in my old KJV as all my notations and high-lighting are in it. I bought the Dakes because a good friend recommended it to me. He loved it. But then, he doesn’t believe in the rapture and oh how I have tried to convince him of his error. I am well-aware of all the other “fake” bibles out there. I have always maintained that as Christians and followers of CHRIST, we must all be on the same page, and that is so difficult when we are not even all in the same Bible version–KJV! The biggest culprit to me is the NIV. I think that it teaches us to worship satan, Compare Isaiah 14:12 and Revelation 22:16. The KJV calls satan Lucifer (the only time it appears in the Bible). The NIV calls satan the morning star. In Rev 22:16, Jesus calls himself the “bright and morning star” as does the NIV. Makes one wonder… That alone would steer me away from the NIV. Well, my Dake Bible is a KJV as I have compared key scriptures, but I’ll still stick with my worn one. Like a good friend,eh? Blessings, BB

        • DC

          Thank you for explaining that it’s a study bible. I thought it meant “Don’t Always Know Enough.” haha

          • Skywatcher

            DC, that’s downright funny! 🙂

          • DC

            Well, I’d rather be off-the-wall than off my rocker! My dad had a great sense of humor. At his funeral visitation, we had over 400 people and the line went almost around the block. He loved everybody and they knew it, and he got quite the send-off; you’d think he was the mayor of our little town. Anyway, it was July and we were sweltering and my mom and sibs were up by my dad, so I went to the middle of the line and greeted people, thanked them for coming, etc. I saw one man I didn’t know and asked him if I could hug him b/c he was the same size as my dad, and I must have cracked a few jokes b/c he said I had my dad’s sense of humor. Best compliment of my life!

  • Howdy DC, Hey! Wherever two or three are gathered in my name…I reckon that the internet is as good as place as any. Nothing wrong with what we do and I am sure that OUR LORD blesses these meetings. I know that I like them!!!!!Blessings, BB

    • Skywatcher

      Good morning, BB, DC, Char, Tracy, Edwitness, and all! I trust you each had a fitful night’s sleep and are ready for ministry today! I know I sure get a blessing when we meet like this! I made an observation yesterday, and you may have too. In many of my comments lately, I haven’t been using Scripture. I thought about it for a moment and immediately I got the word, “You haven’t needed to; BB’s been doing a great job of it”! I agree!

      “Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!” Psa. 133:1

      Don’t worry! I can still wield the sword as is necessary. God bless you all with a truly blessed day, with more victories to come! I’m still rejoicing with you, Char! That’s fabulous!

      • DC

        “This is the day the Lord has made. I WILL rejoice and be glad in it.” Even when I’m freezing!

        • Skywatcher

          I know exactly what you mean, DC! It was freezing rain here a couple of minutes ago, but now the sun is shining! It is a balmy +3C and methinks I may have to go out on the deck and catch a few rays! 🙂

          “Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail…”

          I just love the scenery when the sun sparkles and dazzles through the ice on the trees, etc., after a freezing rain storm! It gives plenty of reason to rejoice. I’m rejoicing right now, because I have a wood stove to put another stick of wood into!

          Yes, this is the day the Lord has made! I trust you have a warm and snuggly blanket to wrap up in! This too shall pass! 🙂 We’ll soon be complaining about mosquitoes, black flies and the incessant heat!

          • DC

            Oh, those biting black flies! I forgot to add them to my list of why God made mosquitoes, etc.

            It has been cold, and I was born & raised in “God’s Country,” the UP (yes, a real Yooper), so now living below the Mighty Mac Bridge with all the Trolls, this is nothing. At my age, though, I’m usually too HOT, but my feet are always cold. Go figure.

        • Skywatcher

          DC, you said, “I was born & raised in “God’s Country…” Awesome! What part of Canada were you born in?! 🙂

          • DC

            Skywatcher, we were saying “Eh?” as in “Say Ya to the UP, eh?” long before the McKenzie brothers made it popular. I’m French-Canadian in ethnicity, so I can laugh with you. I’m from 2 hrs. north of Marquette, the only real city UP NORTH and have a brother in Escanaba, which is almost a city. We have a “camp” (not cottage) with no running water and a real outhouse; we used to go smelting in the spring (dipping fish, not metallurgy) when they used to run–not so much anymore; and we don’t drive snow machines, like Sarah Palin, but SnoCats 🙂

  • Howdy Char, HAH! I told you that you would be happy, and there is more to come. PRAISE THE LORD…PRAISE THE LORD…PRAISE THE LORD…AND THEN SOME. I am so happy for y’all. A door is opening, but wait on the movement of the HOLY SPIRIT. Much Love in CHRIST, BB

  • jknbt

    howdy, buffalobilly….see my reply to your question about mid-way in the list of blogs here.

    feel free to ask any other questions.


    • Howdy JKNBT, I already did. Mine is somewhere on the list, too. Thanks, BB

  • Grafique

    I am a member of Bethel Church in Atlanta. I testify that Bethel Church is made up of God-seeking people who want nothing more than to know God and be close to him. Our worship consists of God-honoring songs and testimonies. We profess the name of Jesus Christ and no other. As Jesus himself said, when he was accused of casting out demons by the power of Satan,
    “24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. 25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
    26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
    27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
    28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

    Heidi Baker is a true believer who has led more people to Christ than anyone commenting on this website. She brings the light of God into the darkness of pagan countries.

    Beware the owner of this website and other Christians like him who demand that you must believe as they do or you are lost and demon-filled. Like the Pharisees, he accuses others of having a demon just because their walk with God doesn’t look like his.

    • jknbt

      amen sister, good job….pls see comments posted by me in the middle of the blog list to the same effect.

    • Skywatcher

      “Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou be tempted.” Gal. 6: 1

      Grafique, I am speaking these words softly, with love and grace, so please do NOT read an emotion into them that was not meant to be there.

      I can appreciate where you’re coming from, but be very careful whom you defend and whom you judge. As a former Pentecostal pastor, I’d have to rebuke such goings on in my congregation. Ms. Baker imparted something dreadfully nasty, and very similar to what Christ was casting out, when she touched that blonde young man. That was NOT of God! Furthermore, Scripture backs it up, “Let all things be done decently and in order.” I Cor. 14: 40 This was the polar extreme opposite of that passage; the whole scene sounded and appeared like the din of Hell.

      Furthermore, when Jesus delivered people of demons, etc., they were not cast down onto the ground, writhing in pain and agony! They usually jumped or ran for joy, and were immediately anxious to tell others about it.

      Many years ago, my PENTECOSTAL pastor strongly warned us against such manifestations because they “were not of God”! He STRONGLY warned us against the charismatic clowns who were making us and the rest of Christendom look bad and “unhinged”. We had miracles of healing, deliverance, relationships and marriages restored, drug addicts and alcoholics immediately delivered, etc. The happenings at Bethel are a shame and disgrace to the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ! There is not a kind way to say it.

      If you were raised in this church, then this is all that you know, and have come to trust your spiritual leadership, even though you’ve been led astray. That’s par for the course these days! Most pastors know as much about the Holy Bible as they do their mama’s recipe book, and that’s shameful! The proof is in the performance of their leadership, those whom they share the pulpit with, and the actions of their congregations. Emotional hype, ecstasy, and demons were drummed up really well, on numerous levels, as seen by that video.

      You said, “We profess the name of Jesus Christ and no other.”

      Jesus said in the last days to beware of false prophets coming in His name. He warned against being deceived, “…Take heed that no man deceive you…And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.” Mt. 24: 4, 11. You’re worshipping and praising a Jesus but NOT the Jesus Christ of Nazareth. He would NEVER bless anything that opposed His Word/Himself.

      In v. 24, 25, He said, “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I HAVE TOLD YOU BEFORE.” (emphasis mine) That’s well under way now, apparently.

      Jesus left people in a much better state or condition than when they first met Him. This is not apparent at Bethel, unfortunately.

      Somebody should’ve called a real born again Christian to that young man’s aid and had him delivered of that spirit that Heidi imparted to him. As someone has already stated, she carried her bible, but that was nothing more than a stage prop; as she didn’t use it. Her Kundalini spirit mantras were NOT of God’s Word, nor was much of anything in that presentation of God’s Word.

      You said, “Heidi Baker is a true believer who has led more people to Christ than anyone commenting on this website.”

      I don’t believe she brings anymore souls to Christ than a JW does, to be honest with you! She teaches much the same gospel, but you folk are into signs and wonders more than you are into God’s Word. You have no right to compare her with anybody else in this forum, as you do NOT know what we do or do NOT do for Christ. Right now, you have NO CLUE as to who is speaking to you. I could be a world renown evangelist for all you know! I could be a prayer warrior for a ministry that prays for people and leads them to Jesus, for all you know. That was an awfully arrogant and judgmental asinine remark on your part, to say the least. Certainly, it bore no evidence of any of the fruit of the Spirit that we are supposed to be in possession of in Gal. 5: 22, 23.

      In your rebuttal, please give me some Scriptural proofs that what we saw on that video was of God.

      You said, “She brings the light of God into the darkness of pagan countries.”

      No she doesn’t! She takes another brand of darkness to them, and if that’s all she had to offer me, I’d remain a sinner and trust in my own merits and be further ahead…I wouldn’t have the likes of her imparting demon spirits into me! Can you NOT see how dangerous and anti-Scriptural this woman and such like are? They’re stirred up to a frenzied state of emotion and then spiritually raped, pillaged, and plundered, led to believe this was all of God! How sick!

      Contrary to what you said, we don’t demand that anybody believe as we do! That’s a lie right from your father, the devil, the father of lies! His job is to accuse the brethren, and you did a mighty fine job of it right there! As born again children of God, our job is to, “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” II Tim. 2: 15.

      Consequently, after many years of study, for most of us, we quickly recognize what aligns with God’s Word and what doesn’t, and it’s our job to expose that which doesn’t. We do NOT want to hurt or offend anybody; it’s up to the other party if they want to accept godly correction or merely choose to be offended and walk off in a snit, condemning those who care the most for them, and continuing in the error of their ways.

      This leadership you’re following after was in Christ’s mind when He spoke the words of Mt. 7: 20-23, “Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall inter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you; depart form me, ye that work iniquity.”

      Nobody likes to be told they are doing wrong or are in a bad place, especially when they believe with all their heart that they are right, and that they are a victim of attack or abuse. The old adage is, “Truth hurts”! Yes, it remains the same today also, so I lovingly encourage you to stop, drop, and roll because your soul is getting a strong smell of smoke on it. You’ve been fed a bunch of false doctrine and you’re soul is in immortal danger. I don’t care how nice the music may sound; Satan has music that appeals to all groups of people. I don’t care if you all love each other to death. What good is any of that if you’re not following God’s Word. Don’t forget…I was a Pentecostal…trained in the old and Biblical way of doing things, so I do know a little of that which I speak. This clearly was not of God, because it also made the hairs on the back of my neck tingle!

      Please go back and read some of the other comments that Buffalobilly has made in this regard. He has a heart for lost and deceived souls also! It’s our job to warn you that the “bridge is out ahead!”; please don’t hate us for being faithful to God and His Word.

      • Grafique

        Here’s your Scriptural proof that what you saw in the video is Godly:
        Luke 9:49 –
        49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
        50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

        You and the others here are “forbidding” Heidi Baker because she “follows not with you”. She does things differently. Her ministry looks different than yours. But, like the one who was casting out devils in the name of Jesus, Heidi also casts out devils in the name of Jesus.
        Do not forbid her, because she is not against Jesus – therefore she’s for him.

        True, I don’t know you folks. You may very well be world-renowned evangelists. Are you?
        Iris ministries has started – literally – thousands of churches. Have you?
        Iris ministries has started Bible schools, evangelistic and healing outreaches. Have you?
        Iris ministries has started medical clinics, farming and well-drilling ministries. Have you?

        When the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out devils in the power of Beelzebub, his response was that Satan does not cast out Satan. If Heidi Baker is casting out devils – regardless of your opinions about her style – then it is being done by the power of the Holy Spirit.

        Skywatcher, your words are very judgmental. You say my father is the devil. That itself is a lie. I rebuke you for your false judgment of me.

        I believe you’re a born again Christian, so I will not say the words to you that you said to me – that my father is Satan. But you ARE of your fathers – the Pharisees, whose religiosity caused them to see themselves as the ONLY spiritual authorities – even in the presence of the Word.

        You are threatened when God does something which makes you uncomfortable – threatened to the point that you start pronouncing judgment that others are lost and demon-possessed. Shame on you for accusing this fine sister.

        • Skywatcher

          Grafique, shame on YOU, for not knowing the difference between a demon and a child of God! This young man was absolutely fine until she placed her polluted hands upon him! That’s NOT Jesus ministry at all!

          And maybe you ought to go back and read my comment to you, I spoke with love and grace… You and LGBT or whatever his name is, came shooting out of the “starting gate”, spewing vitriol and false accusations and condemnation all over us fellow believers, and then expect us to love you up and pat you on the spiritual rump, reassuring you of your deception. It AINT gonna happen!

          You said, “Iris ministries has started – literally – thousands of churches. Have you?
          Iris ministries has started Bible schools, evangelistic and healing outreaches. Have you?
          Iris ministries has started medical clinics, farming and well-drilling ministries. Have you?”

          As for how many this and how many that…it would do you well to get your eyes off of man and their temporary works, and upon the Savior.

          You stated, “You are threatened when God does something which makes you uncomfortable…”

          You hurriedly read my comment, not taking in what I said, because you were so quick to defend the enemy of Christ and to tear into fellow believers. I said, “Many years ago, my PENTECOSTAL pastor strongly warned us against such manifestations because they “were not of God”! He STRONGLY warned us against the charismatic clowns who were making us and the rest of Christendom look bad and “unhinged”. We had miracles of healing, deliverance, relationships and marriages restored, drug addicts and alcoholics immediately delivered, etc.”

          I too, have been involved in demonic deliverances and it was NEVER anything like this, and THIS DID make me feel uncomfortable because it was imparted and not delivered from him! This is what I would be expected in the Name and authority of Christ to cast out of this young man!

          Therefore, I am NO stranger to such goings on, and you need to view that man’s composure BEFORE she touched him with her hellish, spiritually filthy hands! You said,

          “If Heidi Baker is casting out devils – regardless of your opinions about her style – then it is being done by the power of the Holy Spirit.”

          That’s just it, she didn’t cast out any devils! Look at the video again! She imputed them to him. Nothing that woman did in that clip parallels with N.T. teaching. I would hope that your stand for Christ is just as strong and healthy as your stand for this demonic diva is! Based upon God’s Word, I remain resolute on my position, as Christ Himself will have lots to say as to which master she was serving… Good day!

          • Heather

            Amen Skywatcher! I hadn’t read all the comments to this article until you mentioned it to me in your email. I have been quietly reading them all afternoon and have been very blessed by most of them. May God bless you all richly, You, BuffaloBilly, Char, DC, Edwitness and others for STANDING for the TRUTH of GOD’S WORD! I love all of you my brethren dearly in Christ!

            Skywatcher You wrote;
            “Furthermore, when Jesus delivered people of demons, etc., they were not cast down onto the ground, writhing in pain and agony! They usually jumped or ran for joy, and were immediately anxious to tell others about it.”

            Exactly! This woman Heidi’s fruits is of wickedness and is none other than a deceitful worker FOR Satan transforming herself as a minister of righteousness. It is very clear that she imparted a demon spirit into this boy, not once but twice. Not once did she ever say, “in the name of Jesus Christ come out of him”!

            2 Corinthians 11:12-15
            12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
            13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
            14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
            15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

        • Skywatcher

          Grafique, check out this link and see what it has to say about your church in relation to CERN! I just learned something new! 🙂

        • DC

          Hi, Grafique,

          I am wondering what you think of the Roman Catholic Church. They too have started schools, hospitals, orphanages, etc.,and have missionaries all over the world, but as a former-Catholic who actually reads the bible, I can say that they have warped the truth in their own way. (Too much to get into now, but I’ve discussed before.)

          We’ve had practicing Catholics on here defending Rome, and when someone points out discrepancies, they have a real hard time with it. I was once completely immersed in it, so I understand how hard it is to denounce what one has known one’s whole life. (My 75-year-old mother tells me all the time that she doesn’t want to talk about it.)

          I have received nothing but kindness and understanding from Skywather and Buffalo Wings (I mean Billy; just yanking your chain my friend. It’s called cabin fever, something you lucky dog don’t have to deal with in FL!)
          They are really concerned that jknbt and you are being deceived, and Skywatcher has experience in the Pentecostal church, just like I did in the RCC, to be able to know of what he speaks. They’ve both pointed out scripture to me that has helped me tremendously, b/c I still struggle with some “Catholic” things. I’ve also never seen them initiate insults–someone else starts it–and if they come back with harsher words than usual, it’s really meant for effect–to get the person to take it seriously, b/c it is GRAVELY serious. Sometimes we want to take someone and shake ’em, you know, to make them “see,” and it sometimes escalates–dramatic effect, I guess. Be glad they care enough to chastise, like the bible verse that says whom the Father loves, He chastises.

          So try to see the love behind what they are saying. It’s only when someone stubbornly refuses to acknowledge another’s point that the proverbial gloves come off. For example, defending this Heidi Baker at all costs, while calling someone a Pharisee or insulting the other person’s witness/how many they’ve brought to Christ, takes away from the point you’re trying to make. Then we get a back-and-forth of “How dare you’s” and no good argument is remembered, only the insults.

        • Heather

          Grafique, as I read you comments supporting this prophetess Jezebel, I couldn’t help but to think of;

          Revelation 2:18-29 (KJV)

          18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame
          of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
          19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the
          20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because THOU SUFFEREST THAT WOMAN JEZEBEL, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
          21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
          22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of
          their deeds.
          23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts:
          and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
          24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the
          depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
          25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
          26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
          27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
          28 And I will give him the morning star.
          29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

  • Grafique

    Thank you. I once walked the same path as these people, declaring others to be lost just because I didn’t recognize their style of walk with the Lord. I recognize it as spiritual immaturity. I don’t say that in a condescending or demeaning way but as a brother who also struggles.
    And yes, I’m a brother not a sister. ❤️

  • Grafique

    Here is a quote from Heidi Baker’s website “” –

    “…but most of all we proclaim Jesus. He is our salvation, our prize, our reward, our inheritance, our destination, our motivation, our joy, wisdom and sanctification — and absolutely everything else we need, now and forever. All His grace and power flow to us through the Cross and no other way.”

    That doesn’t sound like Satan to me.

    • TorchbearerforJesus

      Grafique, you’re a funny brother! Her statement doesn’t sound that much different than Trump’s or any of the other so-called “Christian” electoral candidates! One never detects the poison if it is a little bit in a nice full plate of healthy food! She uses that as a hook, with which to draw the unsuspecting and uneducated in God’s Word to her show/ministry. It sounds good, and it is. What she does with it is what makes it evil.

      She will have much to be judged for when her day comes, and trust me, you will see her on the hot seat, speechless and without excuse as Jesus’ glaring eyes stare right through her sinful carcass. I believe He will allow her and other spiritual leaders like her to stand in the sidelines and watch, as He righteously judges all who were unfortunate to be sitting under their “ministries”. She and they will see these unsuspecting and trusting souls thrown into the Lake of Fire. “To whom much is given, much is required.”

      • DC

        Very good comment, Torchbearer! I was thinking, “What Jesus is she proclaiming?” It’s kind of like how pro-choice sounds positive; everyone wants to have a choice, right? But when you find out it means promoting taking the life of fully-formed in the womb babies, that’s a whole other ballgame.

    • Howdy Grafique (if you are still around), I agree wholeheartedly…that doesn’t sound like satan. However, her actions don’t match her talk, and as an amateur Skinnerian–actions speak louder than words. Have a good day my brother, BuffaloBilly

  • Char

    Good Morning DC, BB, SW and ALL, just read all your comments and am still rejoicing in yesterday’s little tidbit here at the homefront. Hopefully, today will bring more blessings to all of us. Sounds like SW is rejoicing already in the snow and ice and lucky BB is enjoying the Florida sunshine (we are all jealous). DC and I get to see a lot more snow before it’s over for the year, I’n sure…..Have a great day in the Lord (regardless of what Trump, Cruz, Rubio or Hildabeast are doing). God Bless!

    • Skywatcher

      Hi there, Char! No snow here! It is now +11 C! That’s like 52 F, and raining now. I wish I hadn’t put the last log in the fire now! GB!

  • Char

    BB, hey there. You and Skywatcher are doing a great job with JKNBT, so I have not commented or gave my opinion of Heidi Baker, although I do tend to believe she is NOT in the right camp, but yes, I would be willing to go on to another subject and agree to disagree on their practices. Have a fun day out there in your sunshine! Send some of that warmth to me, DC and SW.

  • jknbt

    (Repeat of earlier reply to billy somewhere in the middle of the blog list)

    …I’m not sure what your question is…could you please clarify?

    It’s not my job to defend all of these people. I am not familiar with most of their ministries. Let their works defend them. By their fruits, you shall know them.

    Everything done for the Lord has to be done by faith.

    I am not a Universalist. Not everyone who says “Lord, Lord” will make it into heaven. There are lists of people in the scripture who are simply not going to be allowed into Heaven. Period. See Rom 1: 29-32; Eph 5: 3-7; 1 Cor 5: 9-11; 1 Cor 6: 9-10; Gal 5: 19-21; Rev 21: 8; Rev 22:15.

    Let me say this one more time: Pharisaical Blasphemers have no part in the Kingdom of God. They do not get into heaven. The worst sort of horrific judgement is waiting for them when they die.

    People who sin with unrepentant gross immorality and never repent have their names blotted off the Lamb’s book of Life, the citizenship role of heaven. Rev 3:5 They have lost their salvation if they ever had it. Do not be deceived.

    Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test? (2 Cor. 13:5).

    So I am putting out the warning in the name of the Lord Jesus: Stop blaspheming the Holy Spirit or suffer the consequences. Repent while you still can. The day comes with any persistent sin that the door of repentance is closed.

    You all have been warned.

    • Howdy JKNBT, I am not asking a question in my reply, just stating a scenario. You might do well to reread it. I do not blaspheme the HOLY SPIRIT in any way and am always careful about what I say to people on this site, you included. Thank-you for the unwarranted warning, but I am solidly in the will of THE LORD and intend to stay this way. To disagree with anyone–believer or not does not make one a blasphemer in any respect. If I or anyone else is wrong about Heidi Baker–so be it. I don’t count that as deception or blaspheme. She surely is not the HOLY GHOST, however. I just make my decision on what I see and hear–and I DO know THE WORD pretty well as I am in it 3-4 hours a day. I taught reading and writing for 35 years of my life so I know how to read well–better than the majority. I am also very objective with my observations of what I see and hear–try to keep my emotions out. Many on this site don’t, but that’s them and not my problem. My major issue now is that you are allowing Heidi Baker to be a divisive tool by your staunch defense of her. That shouldn’t be as you and I both know that the enemy divides–and that is what is happening. If I see anything about Heidi Baker to the contrary of what I have already seen, then I will change my stance–and I will be looking. In the meantime, you give the appearance of ranting in the name of JESUS (I would take that as using the LORD’S name in vain). I don’t disagree so much with what you said in the email, I just don’t see the application in this contextual setting. One last thing, I am always careful NOT to go to people and say “The LORD told me this…” or “THE LORD told me to tell you…” etc. You might want to seriously think about using the name of OUR SAVIOR when addressing people. You and I don’t have a prophet’s status with GOD. IT is not up to us to chastise the brethren in the name of THE LORD. That is THE LORD’S privilege. HE will warn and chastise. I will just take the Gospel message into the world as I am commanded–you know–keep it simple. Now my prayer is that maybe some of what I have told you will be worthy of reflection on your part. BTW none of us who disagreed with What we saw of Heidi Baker are pharisees. On that part, I do think that you are out of line and all those you accused of this semblance deserve an apology. I’ll let that be up to you and OUR LORD.
      GOD Bless You, A brother in CHRIST, BB

      • Skywatcher

        Brother BB, I couldn’t have said it better! Amen, and diplomatically put. Me, I’m a blumbering old Peter…right out there, with sword drawn, picking up ears along the way sometimes. Other times, as the Spirit leads, I’m a gentle and suave Timothy. That was a great word! Thank you!

        • Howdy Skywatcher, Thanks for the second. I do try to be nice in all this….difficult at times, but the LORD strengthens me. BB

      • Skywatcher

        Brother BB, I’m not so sure I’m in agreement with your closing line to JKNBT. Judging from the fruit that he is exhibiting, I seriously do NOT believe he is our “brother in Christ”. He has a dose of the same kind of “deliverance” that poor blonde lad has, and it’s very apparent in his comments. He’s chasing after a false “christ”. His statements show that He is not of God, for we are known to be followers of Christ by the love we show to one another, Jn. 13: 35.

        “Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19. They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.” I Jn. 2: 18, 19.

        Paul told Timothy, and to us by extension, “And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15. Yet count him NOT as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.” 2 Thess. 3: 14, 15

        As you know, JKNBT came on here like a seriously misguided bullet, out to slay his perceived enemies (us). There is no love of Christ in that, so therefore, I’m convinced this person is NOT born again, much less our “brother in Christ”. This demon-possessed person knows the Scriptures like his father (the devil) does, or at least can fling them around, but that doesn’t mean he’s one of us. It just means he’s steeped in false doctrine and his devotion is to the wolves who desire to have his soul.

        When Jesus was confronted by demon-possessed people or even His accusers, He NEVER EVER railed out at them or gave them a hard time. He dealt with the demon and moved on, without pronouncing judgment or warnings of such. This person’s actions are so antichrist in nature, lending strong credence to the words of our Savior, “A tree is known by its fruit.”

        This poor soul is in line for a huge fall: “Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.” Prov. 16: 18

        He and his pal don’t know it, but “Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.” Prov.15: 10

        We tried to reach out to him, but he wanted none of that; we tried to reason with him, but he wanted none of that. I rest my case, my dear Brother in Christ.

  • jknbt

    no apologies. I restate my warning. I owe no particular allegiance to Baker, by the way. The blond kid got a spontaneous deliverance during the meeting as a direct sovereign act of God. For this website to say she is a witch who put demons on the kid is to commit blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, who has honored her ministry for a long time. I can see how the video would be disturbing to those who do not know how to understand what was going on. That is why I made an effort to offer my perspectives. I step up into a prophetic ministry when strongly led, as in this case. Looks like I am a voice crying in the wilderness here except for the one lady who said amen.

    • Edwitness

      I have read some of your comments concerning Baker. I read one comment from someone else that gave a statement from Baker’s website regarding her beliefs. I noticed that the statement said nothing about Jesus being Almighty God. And that He created all that has been made, which makes Him the Creator. Do you believe that He is? And that He made all that has been made? Do you believe that Jesus was born again in Hell?

      I have other questions in this regard, but these will do for now. I ask because “word of faith/prosperity teachers” do not believe these things about Jesus. They believe that when we are born again, we are every bit as much a god as Jesus is. I hope you see where this takes you and that there can be no salvation for those who believe in such a Jesus. Because that is not the Jesus of the Bible.

      This is the real issue after all. “Who do you say that I am?”

      • jknbt

        Jesus, second person of the Trinity, is God Almighty, maker of heaven and earth. No, I don’t believe he was born again in hell…where did that come from? The bible teaches he is co-equal, co-eternal, and coming soon. Pretty much standard bible beliefs concerning the godhead that catholics and most protestants have. so don’t pick a fight here, okay?

        I reject the prosperity gospel because of its upside down tithing…the prosperity seed faith evangelists want you to send all your tithes to them and then give the leftovers to the local church. But God does prosper and love the cheerful giver.

        TV evangelists need wheelbarrows full of money to keep broadcasting. They are doing a good work. The gospel is going into places like Iran that are closed to regular missionary efforts. So don’t judge these people too harshly.

  • Grafique

    I found this site because I searched for “end times news”. What I found was a nest of religious, judgmental vipers.

    I leave you to your hate and self-righteousness.

    • DC

      What both of you need to understand is that in the end times there will be deceives who perform lying wonders and even the VERY ELECT will be deceived.

      I also see, Grafique, that you didn’t give us much time; you’re going to pick up your marbles and go home. Your loss, brother, b/c I can personally attest that I benefit from these people all the time. Skywatcher and Buffalo Billy take sometimes an hour or more to look up correct scriptures to TEACH not pick on you. Wipe your nose already, and get over it. If Heidi’s so great, she certainly doesn’t need you to defend her. Meanwhile, you’re throwing away something that could be very good for you–fellowship with other believers who support each other, pray for each other, and even cry with each other.

      I consider a “religious” person someone who is wrapped up in THEIR church and think it’s the only one that’s right. These people here have a RELATIONSHIP with Jesus Christ and use the scriptures to back up what they are saying.
      “Judgmental” people think they are better than everyone else. Warning you that Satan is a liar isn’t judging YOU but HIM and caring enough about you to point it out. Many times I’ve seen these men humbly state that they are just a sinner who has been saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ. They would be the last ones to judge anyone.
      “Vipers” is just like “pharisee” and other name-calling, which is a tactic of one who’s lost an argument.

      You said, “I leave you to your hate and self-righteousness.” Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t mean they hate you; if the did, they wouldn’t put in the time to try to help you. “Self-righteous” means a person who thinks they can gain merit in their OWN power, and as already stated, these men are nothing like that. You, on the other hand, are puffed up with pride over thinking only YOUR opinion counts: that’s self-righteousness..And over Heidi Baker, really? What, is she your sister or something? You’d think you were defending her honor.

      You showed your true colors early, at least I can be thankful for that. You want to leave us? BUH-BYE

  • Guest

    Grafique, please don’t let the rod of correction hit you on the way out.
    While you’re shopping for another end times news blog, check out the Seventh Day Adventists, or the JW’s, they’re more in line with your theology. Just trying to be helpful…

  • DC

    I just noticed there are 199 comments here, so of course I had to be #200. Did I win anything? 🙂

  • Skywatcher

    DC! Congratulations! You have won first place in our beauty contest! You have two prizes to choose from…a one week all expenses paid bass fishing trip or a package of high caliber bird seed!

    Wow! You certainly surprised me with your very eloquent and godly response to the Baker Braggarts! That’s exactly what the saints of God are called to do… “…in honor, preferring one another”, Rom. 12: 10. Watching each other’s back is part of that mandate. You can certainly hold your own in a spiritual arena! Great job!

    I don’t know how or why anybody could expect love or respect back when they come out with both fists up and verbal diarrhea all over the saints! Right off the hop, they’ve made a mighty nasty mess, and then we get judged and hammered because we answer in like manner, language that they prefer. To tell you the truth…(bashful look), I think they really liked it!

    Anyway, we are soldiers of the Lord Jesus Christ and not door mats! Jesus never ever told us we were to be door mats, and He encouraged His disciples to shake the sand off their sandals and to move on when they weren’t well received. We have been called to active warfare, and that is the messy part of it! There is no way I’m going to back down from a demon-infested posse and give them the appearance that they have won the battle! Their lives are way TOO IMPORTANT to risk losing by sitting back and not correcting them in their wrong. Some people just cannot understand Heb. 12: 6, “For whom the Father loveth, he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.”(my paraphrase)

    They apparently believe that everything and anything is acceptable to God, and we are not supposed to chide or correct them. That’s why we “rightly divide the word of truth”, so that we can be corrected, and therefore better equipped to correct and to encourage others along!

    Without belaboring the point, you made the Father proud, I’m sure! Check this out! I just got home from Bible study and “prayer meeting”. The man I was praying with, afterwards, in a very subtle way attempts to preach at me the necessity of calling our elders “Mr. or Mrs”.! I said, Jesus Christ didn’t have any such title!” He said, “It’s about respect. If you let the guard down in one area, then the next thing you know, you have people coming to church wearing jeans that are ripped and people wearing hats in the sanctuary.”

    I told him my friends call me by my first name, and if I want younger people to call me by my first name, so be it. It’s not disrespect at all. I, for the life of me, cannot picture the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords calling me Mr. Skywatcher! He’s supposed to be my CREATOR and friend. I tell ya, give legalism an inch and it will take ten souls! I’d rather have people come to church with no cloths on if it meant they got to receive Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit can “clean them up” from that point on! Anyway…that was the end of an otherwise perfect evening.

    Keep up the great work, Sis, and God bless you all, with a great evening! I’m letting someone else have the rest of this day! 🙂

  • jknbt

    This is to put out a warning the Mr. Grider and all who use and support this website.

    Not everyone who says “Lord, Lord” will make it into heaven. There are lists of people in the scripture who are simply not going to be allowed into Heaven. Period. See Rom 1: 29-32; Eph 5: 3-7; 1 Cor 5: 9-11; 1 Cor 6: 9-10; Gal 5: 19-21; Rev 21: 8; Rev 22:15.

    Let me say this one more time: Pharisaical Blasphemers have no part in the Kingdom of God. They do not get into heaven. The worst sort of horrific judgement is waiting for them when they die.

    People who sin with unrepentant gross immorality and never repent have their names blotted off the Lamb’s book of Life, the citizenship role of heaven. Rev 3:5 They have lost their salvation if they ever had it. Do not be deceived.

    Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test? (2 Cor. 13:5).

    So I am putting out the warning in the name of the Lord Jesus: Stop blaspheming the Holy Spirit or suffer the consequences. Repent while you still can. The day comes with any persistent sin that the door of repentance is closed.

    You all have been warned. Some of you have already nailed your coffin shut from the inside and have then thrown the claw hammer out the little viewing window.

    Have mercy on them, heavenly Father.

    • Howdy JKNBT, This is about the third or fourth time that you have left us this warning…almost verbatim each time. Here is why I reject your warning and consider it a warning of man than from THE LORD GOD JEHOVAH: In 1 Cor 13:1, we are told “…In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established”. THE LORD confirms HIS own WORD with this testumony: John 8:17 “It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true” (JESUS’S words). GOD further confirms HIS WORD in Matthew 18:16 “…in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established” (JESUS”S own words). And my friend, if this is not enough, the reason that SKYwatcher, DC, Char, Edwitness,Tracy, I, and a bunch of others who disagree with you concerning your “Warnings” can be found in Proverbs 15:22 “Without counsel purposes (plans)
      are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established. You may also enjoy this scripture–I know we do:
      Proverbs 24:6 “For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war; and in a multitude of counsellors there is safety”. Oh my!! Don’t you just LOVE THE LORD!!!!! You see, you are but one witness so your warnings are not confirmed by GOD. Now I found another scripture that you might want to take heed of: Proverbs 12:15 “The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise”. JKNBT, You have been counselled. As you can see, I can sling scripture with the best of them; I just prefer to take careful aim rather than the shotgun approach which so many do. I
      am not your enemy. I just think that you are so caught up in church/denominational doctrine that your eyes have been scaled over. There is good in you…I can feel it! That is why I close my emails to you as a brother in CHRIST! BuffaloBilly

    • DC

      Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is saying He doesn’t exist. Being Pharisaical is thinking you are “holier than thou.” The Pharisees thought they were better than everyone else because of the Law, but if you fail one part of the Law, you fail it all; that’s why we need Jesus, b/c none of us is righteous.

      Reminding people that there will be false teachers in these last days and to be wary is kindness and love. If you can’t recognize that, you need to take your blinders off. How dare you tell people their names will be blotter out of the Lamb’s Book of Life! I’ve tried to be nice, but you are the absolute worst. Take your own advice, man.

      Please get off your high horse and repent of your arrogance. “You have been warned.” Really? By you? Maybe you should pray for our Father to “have mercy” on you.

      • Pistol Peter

        Darling DC, he cannot “get off his high horse”, because he’s the back end of the thing! 😉

  • Char

    Skyrwatcher and BB, good morning. I was thinking a couple of days ago that history is repeating itself with jknbt. Are you sure jknbt is not aka Emery Richards? They have the same attitude. We thought Emery picked up a new hobby and here he is back again in jknbt’s clothing. Just wondering……have a nice day you guys!

  • Howdy Heather, Thanks for the “AMEN”. I have a lot of trouble with some of the “spiritual” manifestations that take place in our churches. Many of them, sadly I believe, are staged to draw unsuspecting people in to that particular church. I was sitting in a service once, in a full gospel church, I had been there previously and liked the message that I heard because the pastor spoke both sides of the Gospel: God is GOD of love, but also a GOD of judgment. I felt that I had found a church home. But, in the middle of the message, this man in the front row jumped up and started racing around the church(taking laps) and did this for a few minutes. Now he was a figure in the church as he helped to take up the collection. Then this other “figure” got up and started to “Boogaloo” (dance?) in front of everyone to further detract from the message. That was my last time in that church. GOD may move in mysterious ways, but I am sure that these aren’t some of them. There is safety in HIS WORD though so I immerse myself there and am doing quite fine. GOD Bless You and Your Family, BuffaloBilly

  • Howdy Skywatcher, Thanks for the heads up. I am a fairly observant person so I do take notice when something seems amiss, particularly in a church setting or with what we see in some of the videos. That’s why I probably attend Baptist churches because I know that this foolishness will not occur. Then, of course, I have to wade through denominational doctrine to find true Bible doctrine. Regardless, I am there to worship and serve the LORD and that becomes my reconciliation . You know, it is really getting difficult in these times to find a church with solid preaching and solid, Biblical doctrine. Oh my soul… BB

    • Skywatcher

      You’re more than welcome, Bro. I also attend a Baptist Church, the doctrine is not bad at all, as they pride themselves on it. However, my experience with one of them last night was nightmarish! The snake of legalism reared its ugly head! I was being told by a senior leader that we should be showing respect to our elders and to each other by addressing everyone as “Mr.”, “Mrs.”, “Miss”. etc.!

      This is an ancient tradition this particular brand of Independent Baptists have sinfully prided themselves on since before Canada became a Confederation! He then went on to subtly give his opinion that people ought not to wear ripped jeans with holes in them to church. If I lead a poor soul to Christ, and that’s all they have, they had better not get in my way! God looks on the heart of man, and man can mind their own business! As most of you know…I don’t hold back, and I’m never short of words, especially when it comes to quoting Scripture!

      One of the deacons in the church told me he wouldn’t allow Apostle Paul to have a leadership position in the church because he had a past! So much for the cleansing and restorative blood of Jesus Christ!

      In short Bro, you’re absolutely correct! It’s getting harder and harder to find a “solid” non-judgmental church anywhere! Every body of believers is sick in one way or another, but we know to keep our eyes on the Savior, and to take our directive from Him. I emailed the pastor, whom I love dearly (a man 7 years my junior), and I poured my heart out to him. Haven’t heard back from him yet, because I mentioned the buddy’s name repeatedly; he’ll have to confirm the ludicrous conversation before praying about it. He’s definitely a man of God, who seeks God on all things. We are truly in the last days, as the Bible gives no hint whatsoever of a godly revival in the last days. The body of Christ is getting smaller and smaller with each passing day! I should go trim my beard, so I don’t cause any wind resistance when I’m called up! 😉 Maranatha, Bro!

      • Howdy Skywatcher, I know what you mean by the legalism. It’s probably the biggest hindrance to the Baptist church. I conduct a Bible study on prophecy and endtimes events every Tuesday night. One of my friends is an usher and elder in our church. He was told (indirectly by the pastor) that people should not attend Bible studies unless they are under the auspices of his church. Made my friend mad, mad enough that he has no intention of missing any Tuesday nights. And…of course, we have excellent fellowship during these sessions. We have these studies because the pastor will not preach and teach about prophecy. He shows a David Jeremiah video about prophecy randomly on Sunday nights when about 25% of the membership may be there. David Jeremiah is very “vanilla” to me. He taught about Daniel in one video and completely glossed over Dan 2:43. I wanted to puke. I truly cannot find a church/pastor that will touch Bible prophecy…and you’d think that they would be chomping at the bit to do so since we are so clearly in the end of days…and I mean end! But, no,..
        it’s business as usual messages that really don’t feed me anymore. I feel like I could teach him and that is a thought that I am uneasy with. I have some great friends who were under his tutelage for 12 years and I can’t get them to look at any prophecy dvd or discuss it. They even think that demons and /or unclean spirits are not for today but for Biblical times. I get so frustrated that smoke has to literally come out my ears to relieve the pressure. OY! I tell them–all in the church that we are responsible for the whole council of GOD, not just that which we know or think we know or are comfortable with. I think that I would really like to preach a message to that bunch one day and really wrinkle some faces and step on some toes, but I am not formally trained…other than by the HOLY GHOST. Double Oy! Well, I have bent your ear long enough. I know that you and the others of our online church are equally frustrated with all this (heavy sigh). GOD Bless you my brother in CHRIST and thanks for all your wisdom and encouragement–we truly need it these days. BuffaloBilly

        • Skywatcher

          Hey, Bro! Man! This is uncanny! You use terms that I thought I had made up years ago, “I have bent your ear long enough.” I told that to a judge in 1993! I’m glad to hear that your Bible Study friend still has a mind to think for himself, determining to come out under your excellent wisdom, counsel, and biblical teaching! Some pastors do get very protective of their congregations, and with the spiritual climate as it is out there, we cannot really blame them, providing their motive is protection and NOT possession.

          It’s a really bad sign to me at least, if a pastor is not teaching prophecy and preparing his flock! There is something seriously wrong with that picture. We have Acadia Divinity College here, (Convention Baptist), and I wouldn’t give you ten cents for all the grads they’ve pumped out in the last 60 years! They are taught absolutely NOTHING about prophecy! Over 1/4 of the Bible is prophecy, and if one removes all the prophecy, you have absolutely nothing! That’s the eternal and glorious hope of the Church! Doctrine wouldn’t even be worth a badly chewed rubber crawdad! These “students of the Word” barely know how to lead a soul to Christ (if they do), so I really don’t know what they believe they are called to do! It’s extremely sad, and a waste of many wonderful souls!

          I’ve played piano/organ for a couple of these churches, for a total of 13 years, and NOT ONCE did I hear a single sermon on eschatology! When I questioned my ADC graduate pastor, I was told, it was not a strong point of ADC, and therefore, they knew very little about it! Duh! Without a proper understanding of prophetic events for the last days, the Church has NO HOPE! Consequently, many of their churches have closed down, and should’ve the day after they were dedicated to the Lord, for all the good they did. They had few if any really well trained shepherds.

          While serving in these social clubs, as that’s all they really were, whenever I spoke a meaty morsel of God’s Word, you could almost see their heads spin! They hadn’t a clue what I had just said, and were starving for more! At the weekly Bible study, you could learn more by staying home, with one’s proboscis neatly inserted into the Word. The last of these two churches actually voted me out of their congregation because they…get this…didn’t like the way I spoke to people! I was shocked, and not present at that meeting. The ring leader, a year older than I has since died of cancer; the pastor has moved on, and the church is struggling to meet it bills. It’s dying a slow death. Painful? Not really because there aren’t enough going to feel the pain.

          They really didn’t like what I said, because I spoke the counsel of God’s Word, something totally foreign to them! In fact, there were deacons on the board, etc., that didn’t even have a personal relationship with Christ! There were people in that church for 50 and 60 years who had never EVER heard a salvation message or knew how to be saved! Many didn’t even know they needed to be saved to enter into the kingdom of God! I kid you not! To be disfellowshipped was the best thing they could’ve done for me, but they did it at the absolute worse time of my life…my mom had just been diagnosed with lung cancer and I was at the front end of a nasty legal battle! Yep! That was the love of God in action…NOT! I’m over it now, but it was a lengthy struggle!

          The Baptist church I’m in now, I don’t know if I dare to mention the words, “demons” and “deliverance”. I find these Bible-believing churches will only go so far with doctrine and then they start to drag their feet. I don’t know if they are afraid to use the gifts that God has given the Church to use, or if they are afraid of their congregations tossing them out the door for preaching these things of God. It’s a hard mystery to solve, as they tend to explain things away if they don’t understand them or haven’t experienced them. I think it’s a clear-cut example of “Having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof.”

          Then we have the extreme, where some churches take God’s Word literally and go overboard with it, allowing the critters to come in rather than casting them out!

          You said, “I think that I would really like to preach a message to that bunch one day and really wrinkle some faces and step on some toes, but I am not formally trained…other than by the HOLY GHOST.”

          You can NEVER EVER have a better teacher than the Holy Ghost! Bro, as you know, I am fully trained, and I’m disgusted at what I’m seeing coming out of institutions of higher theological education these days! My German Shepherd has better understanding of God! In fact, he’ll even raise his paw to praise the Lord when I ask him to! There’s not a soul in this Baptist church that will do that! In fact, before service started last Sunday morning, I overheard the pastor’s brother, (another pastor) making a wise crack about “raising holy hands”. It pains me greatly to see people “serving” God with a spirit of obligation and not a spirit of joy, gratitude, deep love, etc.!

          Bro, please allow me encourage you! When the time is right, God WILL raise you up to A pulpit to deliver the message He has laid upon your heart! It is He who exalts and demotes! There is nothing wrong with being a student in the School of the Holy Ghost, as long as you are humble, a good Berean, and honest before God! Not a single disciple of Christ had a seminary education, but what they got was the very best, and we are beneficiaries of it today! Praise the Lord!

          However, we have the Word of Faith movement that also believe they’re enrolled in the “School of the Holy Ghost”, and they may well be, but He’s apparently out on a long-term sabbatical! Their “theology” is spooky at best, and they ignore doctrine and eschatology like the plague. I guess because they don’t want to be reminded of their future!

          I guess you can tell…you were correct…I am thoroughly “frustrated” with the state of the church these days! Since you,I, and many more are, just imagine how frustrated Father is! I’m just simple enough to believe that He’s just about had his fill of legalism, emotionalism, and fanaticism! I believe He’s tired of people grabbing His righteous gavel of judgment out of His hands and beating up the honest and sincere Christians with it, falsely believing they are doing God a service! These folk need to be very careful; there’s enough Damascus Road to go around!

          I’m going to share this with you, and then I’m going to bed! There comes a time in EVERY astute believer’s life, when s/he becomes filled up to the “full mark” with God’s Word, and all that pertains to it. We can actually preach better sermons than most, if given half a chance. As a result of being full, the wise student will share it with others, and have what they’ve given away replaced with joy, fulfillment, and a deep settled peace, that they are doing exactly what God has taken years to prepare them for! When we have reached this level of maturity, it is only then that we can see how God just keeps on giving and giving back, as we give it away! “Freely, freely, you have received; freely, freely give”!

          Forty years on the backside of a desert for many of us, but when God raises us up, look out! There WILL BE a multitude of souls that will be hungry for what we have! I’m thinking of Moses, at this juncture. Look at how God mightily used him! Without the obedience of Moses, I don’t believe we would have any business to be expecting a Messiah soon!

          When the times get more difficult, you WILL be amazed at just how many people are going to “come out of the woodwork” seeking your godly wisdom and counsel. They will have hit rock bottom, and then your message will be sorely needed! I saw that happen here in 2008.

          My eyelids are getting droopy because I had a late night on this machine…2 a.m. this morning, and it’s now just three minutes shy of midnight! I had better let your ear flop back up before I get tired and reckless. I don’t want to make mistakes with God’s Word! There are more than enough out there doing that now!

          Before I leave you, I’m being prompted to encourage you to buy yourself two excellent theology books, if you don’t have them already:

          “Things To Come” by J. Dwight Pentecost…an excellent eschatology book; one of my Bible college textbooks.
          “Lectures In Systematic Theology”, Henry Thiessen.

          These men are strict Conservative theologians, very easy to understand, and their works are worth their weights in platinum! Next to my Holy Bible and my Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance, these are my other primary tools! No Christian’s library should be without these books, if they are serious about knowing God and walking with Him, “rightly dividing the Word of truth”!

          Time’s up! If I don’t go to bed now, there will be a contest on in the morning, to name that Ziploc bag brand under my eyes! I love you, and I appreciate you, Bro! While I was putting wood in the stove, the Holy Spirit said that you, I, and the rest of our online church family are like ice breakers in a very frozen ocean. We faithfully plod on, chipping a piece here, and a huge block there, until we get the job done. When it is done, He will say, “Well done, thou good and faithful servant…Come up hither”! God richly bless you and your family! If Jesus doesn’t come tonight, I’ll commune with you in this manner again tomorrow! Wink! Wink!

          Good night, Char, Tracy, Heather, Edwitness, James S., DC, Pistol Peter, and the rest of the clan! I love ya’s too! You KNOW I’m prayin’ God’s blessing upon each and every one of you! Our children are being bombarded by prayer, and soon, I expect to hear that one by one, they are dropping out of the worldly sky, and into the everlasting arms of our Lord Jesus Christ! Amen? Amen!


  • DC

    Your story about respect and what we wear in church reminded me of a story my husband once told me. His first wife (deceased many years), grew up very poor. They once visited a church and she wore a very nice pants suit, the nicest thing she owned. When shaking hands after the service, the pastor said, “We prefer that our women wear dresses.” She cried all the way home and they obviously never went there again.

  • Char

    DC and Pistol Peter, you are both correct! Very good comments from both of you!

  • Char

    Buffalo Billy and Skywatcher, I can relate to both of you on finding a spiritual church. I gave up at about the 8th one that which was lukewarm at best, just like all the others. I had attended one of them for about a year and one Sunday the senior pastor said he was going to preach on the end times, so this is what he said “Several people have asked me to speak on the end times, so I’m giving you my opinion. There is no such thing as a pre-tribulation rapture. I find no evidence in the Bible that we will be taken out of here BEFORE the tribulation, so I’m sure some of you will disagree with me, but that’s my belief” and that was the last time he spoke of any end times prophecy. I left shortly after that. I was disenchanted with him before that great sermon. It’s a church that has about 5,000 people in it. Then the smallest one I went to for the very first (and last) time I visited it, the pastor preached on tithing 10% or else. So that was that. I just watch my few TV shows like Jack VanImpe and a few others and read my comments and posts on this website and Rapture Ready. Thank the Lord for my buddies on this website. God Bless!

    • DC

      Wow, Char, I was watching the fights, I mean the debate, so I missed these comments last night. Sounds like these pastors got their degrees online from a 2-hour course. Talk about false teachers in the end times! Good for you and your discernment that you high-tailed it out of there.

    • Edwitness

      You and Skywatcher and BB have a witness with me. I was at a church Bible study down the street from my home. I went to it because I figured that of all those who attended services there, those who were willing to go to it would probably be the ones who were most interested in studying the scriptures.
      After about a half dozen visits the leader of the ‘study’ prayed at the end of the ‘study’ for God to “forgive us when we study too much”. He was uncomfortable with some of my quotes from scripture that shed light on what he was presenting. I was in shock! Study too much?! I never heard of such a thing. Anyway, that was my last visit.
      I thank God for all of you as well.


  • Howdy Char, I feel your pain. I would have challenged the pastor who could find no evidence of a pre-trib rapture. It’s all over 1 & 2 Thessalonians. Even Revelation makes it clear that the church will not be in the tribulation. What a nimrod…Be aware of Jack Van Impe. I used to watch him all the time, but he has gone very pro-catholic so I am wondering. I have not seen him in years because I cancelled TV so I don’t see any more mainstream TV, commercials or lawyer commercials. It’s tough during football season for me, but I have managed. Blessings, BuffaloBilly

    • Skywatcher

      Hey there, BB! Where have you been all day! You don’t have to answer that; it’s a rhetorical question. We’ve missed you, but don’t tell me you were out fishing! I too, have had some concerns about Jack Van Impe and his love relationship with the RC’s. I was figuring that he was being kind and leaning more in their direction, with the hopes of winning them for Jesus. But, he NEVER tells them to “come out of her” as I believe he should be doing!
      In fact, I’m going to listen to him online right now!

      God richly bless you, Bro!

  • Char

    You preach it, Bro. Skywatcher, I feel like I’ve been to church tonight after reading your comment to BB and I loved every word of it. We need a whole lot of preachers like you and BB to preach it and teach it like it should be. Blessings to all our fellow believers on this website and PTL we are all of one accord and praying for one another’s loved ones. As I turn the lights out at night, I think, maybe this is the LAST time I will be doing this if the Lord calls us up tonight and one of these days or nights, He will! God Bless!

  • Char

    BuffaloBilly, believe it or not, I went to that church over a year and the pastor NEVER spoke to me or ANY of his employees. I volunteered at the church during the day and I asked one of the girls that worked there if the pastor was nice and she had worked there for 5 years and said he NEVER spoke to her, so she didn’t know. I was flabbergasted. They had Christmas parties for all the employees and I helped out during that time, but he would just get up and say the blessing and talk a few minutes. He spoke a lot about his neighbors in his sermons and playing golf with them, so apparently he liked his neighbors better than his congregation and employees. Weird, huh?

  • Howdy Char, That pastor was just playing church, receiving his salary, and enjoying the praise from his flock…if there was any. I’m am telling y’all, judgment day is going to be one rough outing for a lot of these “Christians”. I am trying my best to see that mine is smooth sailing. Blessings to you. Happiness is still on the way 🙂 BB

  • The Maaser Rishon room

    O Lord Be Thou Near To Us

    Whenever we're afraid Lord, tested we will trust in you, hidden your word in our hearts that we sin not against you. Daily we lift up holy hands to you as our covenant and trust, stand upon the promises you hath for us. Never are we hopeless, for God is for us, be near us to keep us near the Cross, Jesus Lord our divine bargain, come rescue us, made vain is the help of man, IJN Amen

  • Howdy Skywatcher, I have been taking a little break from this site. I have spent so much time on it and emailing y’all that I have neglected two very important tasks that I had. I have them both accomplished so I can spend a little time here. The emails on the Heidi site have dwindled a lot too so there hasn’t been much activity for me. I am also looking at the pope site but have not been very active on it. I have noticed that the comments that you, Char, DC, Edwitness, Grace, and a few more make don’t really seem to be the same “quality” observations that have been showing up on the pope site. I got the really long email that you sent me and man that is a lot to digest. I want to respond but it will take me time to bounce back and forth between your missive and my response. But…as you can see, I am still around…Blessings, BuffaloBilly

  • Char

    Edwitness, what a bummer! It’s very discouraging to go to all these churches and come away disappointed. Ya, that bible teacher of yours wanted you to dumb down to where he was. He apparently didn’t want the student to be wiser than the teacher. It’s frustrating. My sister just became a Christian. He husband was diagnosed with cancer so he decided he wanted to go to church and I believe she got saved, PTL. So now she joined a bible study at the one and only church near her and they are starting Revelation. I won’t go into how weird the teaching sounds to me and they are using an NAV bible. I never heard of that one, but she said the teacher said the KJV is too hard to understand. So I don’t know how much to bombard my sister with since she’s a brand new Christian. It’s very difficult these days with all the false teachers and apostate churches to give a new believer advice without sounding like a know it all. I will continue to pray for her that she will grow in the Word and receive discernment.

    • Skywatcher

      Praise the Lord, Char! You have a sister for eternity! I’m so happy to hear that your has received Jesus! See what happens when brothers and sisters pray together on something?! PTL! I’m so excited. Remember, she’s just a baby in the faith, so feed her the pablum, ensuring she has a strong biblical foundation to build upon. Some people are not as eager to learn of prophecy in huge terrifying chunks, as we’re used to. I would encourage you to mentor her in her walk, developing a good solid personal relationship with Christ at the start of her journey. That’s much more important than she having an understanding of the world of eschatology now…UNLESS she has an obvious eagerness to learn. She needs the foundation of doctrine built first, AND USUALLY, SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE. I know you know that! This is just big brother being the cautious and protective one. Speaking of cautious…I wonder where Pistol Peter has been all day? I’m so happy for you!

    • Edwitness

      What an amazing blessing for you that your sister has given her life to Christ. It also blesses me. Thank you for the praise report. Just love her with the love of Christ and share with her in such a way that a great desire for the word will grow in her heart. I pray the Lord gives you the wisdom to know exactly what she needs to hear when the opportunity comes to share with her.

      The church is in big trouble when it comes to sound doctrinal teaching. I heard the other day on a radio station that 95% of seminarians do not believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God. With those kind of statistics, how do we recommend a church to a new believer. We can however point them to Jesus through His word.
      Blessings to you and your’s Char.

  • Howdy Char, BB here. I read your post about your sister going to a Bible study about Revelation. Kudos for the group to tackle that chapter. Shame on them for avoiding the KJV because it is too difficult. Tell her to take lots of noted and if she asks a question, to write the question and the teacher’s response down. I have been really studying Revelation hard these past 6 months or so. Tell her to first focus on Rev 1:3. All who read and all who hear the words of that prophecy get a special blessing. See if the teacher lets all in attendance know that. A good question for her to ask is why Rev 1:5
    calls JESUS the “prince of kings”? I know that answer, but would really be interested in the teacher’s response to that. That will help to locate his knowledge bank concerning that chapter. It is heavy-duty reading and studying..that is why so many pastors and churches avoid it like the plague. I conduct a Bible study group every Tuesday night and we are studying prophecy–not just Revelation, but Daniel, Psalm 83, Ezekiel 38-39, Joel, and all that we can find. We do this because the churches won’t! Since your sister is a new Christian and should be on the “milk of the word” (show her the scriptures), remind her not to be discouraged if she doesn’t understand because Revelation is clearly “meat” and will be difficult for her to “digest”. I am still praying for your son and daughter-in-law. Avenues will be opened as GOD is true to his WORD and all his counsel is faithfulness and truth (Isa 25:1). Love in CHRIST, BuffaloBilly

  • char

    BuffaloBilly, thank you for the info for my sister. I will let her know. She sounded a little overwhelmed because the teacher had them buy some colored pencils and where it talks about wrath to color in orange on the W and on to another word and another color. duh I don’t get that, but maybe it will start making sense later. If not, she will learn how to color inside the lines. I hope she doesn’t get discouraged and quit. I would LOVE to come to your bible study with all the rest of our buddies on this site. Sounds interesting. I love prophecy. Incidentally, didn’t you say you are in Florida? My sister lives in Ocala. Is that far from you? I’ll tell her to buzz on over to your bible study.

    • Howdy Char, Ocala is a 2 hour drive from Jacksonville…about 100 miles. Not a distance to buzz on over, but she would be more than welcome and I would buy her dinner. We meet at a Chick-Fil-A to dine and discuss. This Tuesday we are focusing on the Spring Feasts of the LORD to get ready for the Fall Feasts which JESUS will fulfill as he did the Spring Feats. It sounds like that teacher is using a Grant Jeffrey Prophecy study Bible because it is already outlined in those colors (I think). Don’t let your sister be overwhelmed. Just remind her that she gets a blessing from THE LORD for being there, and to ask the question about Rev 1:5–why JESUS is called the prince of kings. Love in CHRIST, BB

  • Char

    BB, yeah, I guess she’s too far away from you to make it to your studies, 100 miles is out of the question. You should tape them and post them on here so we can hear them. It wouldn’t hurt us to learn a little more about the Feasts. Some people are mentioning they think the Lord will return during the Feast of Trumpets (that would be great since it’s in a few months), but do you think He will use a JEWISH feast for the mainly GENTILE rapture folks? That’s always been a question in the back of my mind too. Just wondering……what are your thoughts?

    • Howdy Char, Yes, I believe that the Rapture may occur on the Feast of Trumpets. It is a 2 day feast that begins when two rabbis are able to see the sliver of the new moon. No one knows on which day of the feast that this will occur; hence…”no man knoweth the day or the hour…” There is a blowing of 100 trumpets on this feast. I think that it is divided into 9 blasts of 11 trumpets, and then comes the last trump–the 100th blast. As you know, the church is grafted in to the Olive tree so, yes, I see JESUS coming for his bride on that Feast. BTW these are NOT Jewish feasts…The Bible calls them The Feasts of the LORD! Don’t allowing yourself to be confused on this. JESUS fulfilled the Feast of Passover to the day, the Feast of First Fruits when HE rose from the grave, the Feast of unleavened bread (leaven being sin) and Pentecost when THE HOLY SPIRIT was given to the church 50 days after HE ascended for the last time. There is no reason to doubt that HE will not fulfill the Fall Feasts (Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles) in like manner. I believe that the tribulation will begin on the first day of Yom Kippur…the Feast of atonements, and end roughly 7 years on the last day of the Feast of Atonement. Yom Kippur is, interestingly, a seven day feast which coincides with the 7 year trib. It makes sense to me that the millenial reign will begin on the first day of Sukkot, or the Feast of Tabernacles.
      The Feast of Tabernacles is when THE LORD dwells with man. I also believe that JESUS was born on the Feast of Tabernacles, which is in the fall. Many put the date as October 3rd. Makes sense to me. In Hebrews 8:5 we see that GOD is a GOD of patterns. He really lays out his word in such a way that if we spend time in it and listen to good teachers with our spirit of discernment, and are good Bereans…we can surely understand HIS WORD and prepare ourselves for the rapture of the church. God Bless you and stay close to your sister now that she is in CHRIST..Satn will attck her at her weaknesses and she needs to be aware. A good scripture for her to learn is “submit yourself unto GOD; Resist the devil and he will flee from you”. BuffaloBilly

  • Char

    Well folks, I think we did it again! We monopolized this website again today. Maybe we should back off tomorrow and let some others speak up, but they are certainly welcome to give their opinions too. We welcome all opinions…..we are just having fun and learning in the process.

  • Char

    BB, thank you for your lesson. I’ve been wanting to ask someone about their thoughts on if they thought the rapture would occur on a Jewish Feast, but you say it’s not a Jewish Feast day, so I’m certainly good with that since I’m very anxious for it to be soon. So we will be soooooo bummed out if it doesn’t occur this year in October because that means we will have to wait a whole year again for the Feast of Trumpets. He could surprise us and call us up just any time and not on a designated day, but hopefully you’re right about Him being a God of patterns. So the scripture where he says “He will come when we least expect it” in Matthew 24, is only for the unbelievers, right?

    If we don’t stop monopolizing this website, Geoffrey is going to block us. I hope not!

    • Lol, takes a LOT for me to block someone….and I hate having to do it..

    • Howdy Char, I think it is in Leviticus where GOD gives Moses the Feasts. They are called the FEASTS of the LORD so they are not considered Jewish feasts even though they were given to the Jews. Tishri 1 is the Jewish New Year and is called Rosh Hashanah or Yom Teruah. Most eschatologists are expecting the rapture in 2017 although it could be this year. I thought that last year might be it because of the blood moon on 9/28, partial eclipse on Elul 29 (day before Tishri 1) and it was the end of a Shemitah (7 year period). Matthew 24 is not for the church. It is solely for the Jews. Paul preached to the Gentiles so you should study 1 and 2 Thessalonians. We won’t be asleep, but all those who don’t know CHRIST as their SAVIOR will be caught by surprise. Many in the church will be caught too because they were out of GOD’s will and practicing sin (my own studies are showing). You see, Christians think that salvation guarantees the rapture, but I differ. I think that salvation guarantees citizenship in Heaven, but unless Christians are looking and purifying their walk with CHRIST, they may be fully chastised of GOD and get to experience the trib. They will become witnesses for Christ and ultimately tribulation saints having forfeited their position as the bride of Christ. But again, that is “Thus sayeth BuffaloBilly”, not “Thus sayeth THE LORD”. I will furnish the scriptures for you to look at in case you want me to. They are not handy as I type this or I would include them now. In CHRIST< BB

  • Char

    Geoffey, please don’t! I am so blessed by this website and my new friends in Christ! We will haunt you if you block us! Just kidding! God Bless!

  • Char

    BB, thank you for Lesson #2 and yes, I would like those scriptures if it’s not too much trouble. What I don’t understand is that you say they are not Jewish feasts, although God gave them to the Jews. I kinda think it will be next year too because of the #7 in the year, but that’s my own thoughts. I hope I’m wrong and it’s this year, but only God knows! Thanks again.

    • Howdy Char, Actually, I think I gave you all those scriptures in a post on the ufo strand. I was afraid of opening up a can of worms with them since they are of my own research. However, here goes… We all know that GOD is HOLY. The sad fact is that not too many Christians dwell on the fact of the HOLINESS of our LORD. We also know that GOD is a DOD of judgment. Sadly, there is no fear of the LORD in the lifestyles of most Christians today either. Taking those two very important attributes of GOD, I began to wonder (in light of Matthew 7:13-14) if all these backslidden and false Christians would go in the rapture. It seems that everyone I come across thinks that salvation is a guarantee to go in the rapture. But…if their lifestyles cannot stand up to a HOLY GOD, why would HE take them in the rapture along with all those who are striving to live a Holy life. It just didn’t seem just to me. So, I did some digging and came up with 3 witnesses that…I THINK…tell us that these backsliders and phony Christians will not go in the rapture and will be left behind to straighten out their lives, get right with GOD, and be a witness to those who were on the fence but couldn’t make a decision for CHRIST.
      We are told repeatedly that we are to be watching and purifying ourselves in anticipation of THE BLESSED HOPE (rapture). Here are many scriptures for that:
      WATCHING: 1 Peter 1:13, 4:7-8; 2 Peter 3:11-12,14; 1 COR 16:13; 1:7-8; ! THESS 5:6,11; COLOS 4:2; HEB 9:28, 10:25;
      TITUS 2:12-14, 3:8; HAB 2:1; EPH 6:18, Luke 12:37-40, 43-46; Mark 13:35-36.
      PURIFYING: 1 THESS 2:12, 4:7, 5:11,23; 2 THESS 1:11; 1 PETER 1:22; 2 PETER 3:11-14; 1 JOHN 3:2-3; 2 TIM 2:15, 3:16-17, 4:18; 1 COR 1:8;TITUS 2:11-14, 3:8; LUKE 21:26;
      Char, If I am right about what I think, then the following scriptures make a lot of sense: LUKE 12:42-48 and MATTHEW 24:48-51. These are the parables of the servants. In Matthew, the evil servant who was not found watching was appointed his portion with the hypocrites while in Luke that same servant was appointed his portion with the unbelievers. Who is going to enter the tribulation period–hypocrites and unbelievers. The servants have to be believers(?) or know of CHRIST as they have some kind of a relationship with HIM. Hypocrites and unbelievers don’t. Hope this makes a little sense. I may be wrong and if I am, all those backsliders have nothing to worry about even if they are steeped in practicing sin…BUT…if I am right…WOE unto them. I think that I will opt for the being watchful, making myself worthy, and purifying my life for THE LORD JESUS. GOD BLESS YOU and YOUR FAMILY, and it is 78 degrees here today and all this week. BuffaloBilly

      • Skywatcher

        Good morning, BuffaloBilly, Char, and all! That was an excellent post there, BB! I concur with that on all levels; not that it really matters if I do or not! 🙂 It’s amazing how many people seriously believe they’re going to Heaven just because they believe in God! James 2: 19 tells us,

        “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devil also believe, and tremble.”

        You gotta just love that comma after “believe” to emphasize the word, “tremble”. That’s just how serious it is, and we KNOW the demons will have no part in God’s Heaven!

        We have to do more than believe, we have to trust in Him enough to receive (Jn.1: 12). I know y’all know this; I said that for those who aren’t aware.

        I’ve been telling folks around here that they need to be watching, but so many do not see the importance of such. I eventually did an essay on “Watching” so I could just hand it out to folks. Purifying is just as important and not to be minimized. The clincher in all this is Psalm 24: 3, 4:

        “Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? 4. He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart: who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.”

        Excellent “work” you did here, Bro! Keep it up!

  • Char

    Edwitness, Thank you for the uplifting comment. Yes, I don’t want to bombard my sister with all kinds of negatives from the apostate churches and false prophet news. Her teacher at the bible study (I think I mentioned this) uses a NAV bible. She says it’s the closest to the translation of tYwill take this lady’s advice. My sis lives in Florida and I’m in Illinois, so I don’t talk to her every day, so it’s once a week that we talk so it’s a little difficult to throw it all in at once, but I’m certainly shouting praises that she has accepted the Lord!

  • Char

    EW, my sentence got scrambled. Its supposed to say that the teacher told her that it’s the closest to the KJV, so I’m sure my sis will NEVER pick up a KJV thinking that it’s too hard to read due to this lady’s advice. Sorry about that, but my computer arrow goes crazy sometimes and goes where it’s not supposed to go.

    • DC

      Hey, Char, I’ve lost our conversation on the main page. I can’t remember what article we were under talking food, exercise, and our family concerns; and new comments for said topic haven’t come to my email, so I don’t know if you responded since my comment this afternoon. I didn’t want you to wonder why I wasn’t answering if you did. “Heidi” comments do get through, so if you want to tell me where to find where we left off, you can reply here. Or we’ll take it up again somewhere. 🙂 With so much news, I suppose Geoff has to put some articles in archives. That’ll teach me to put in my 2 cents on almost every article!

  • Char

    Hey DC, yeah, we had so many comments shipping out yesterday that we lost track. Update: My prodigal daughter just called and asked her son if he wanted something to eat and he told her what he wanted and we haven’t heard from her since, but one good thing was that she sounded completely sober, so hopefully she’ll be home soon (with his food). I just have to take it a day at a time with her. Hope all is well with you and your family (brother included). I have to get a good diet going soon cuz I ain’t gettin’ any younger. lol God Bless!

  • Char

    BuffaloBilly, oh you lucky guy with that weather of yours. Ours is warmer than usual, but not near yours. I thank you kindly for all your labor and concern. I wrote down all those scriptures from your last post and I have been looking them up and reading them in my NEW KJV. I tried twice to get one of Jack VanImpes prophecy Bibles on ebay and lost out, but I got one from, believe it or not, my daughter. She had 2 of them sitting on her dresser collecting dust (one is a N.T. only) and the other one is a KJV with the New Living Bible on the other side of the page. I asked her where she got it and she said someone gave it to her at Salvation Army, so I asked her if she was reading it and (I knew) she said no, so I asked her if I could “borrow” it, but I told her if she ever wanted to read it, let me know and she can have it back.

    So, if like you say, backsliders are left behind, are they going to be some of those who receive the delusion and believe the lie? I guess you think not, because you say that they will be left behind to witness to others. Of course we have no idea what is going to transpire after we are gone. Thank you again for your concern and help on this matter.

    • Howdy Char, I have discussed the idea of who suffers the strong delusion with some friends. My position is that there are so many people(billions as far as other religions and those who flat out reject JESUS and HIS GOSPEL…these will undergo strong delusion–a majority of the earth’s population). Those who thought that they knew CHRIST and those could not make the decision on time…these will be the first people to get right with GOD, accept JESUS as LORD, and become the first witnesses in the tribulation. Remember, the church is gone and there are no saved people on earth. Who will become the martyrs and tribulation saints? True, the two witnesses in Jerusalem will bring souls to CHRIST as will the 144,000 Hebrew servants of GOD. I just think that there will be a mass awakening/revival after the rapture because so many are going to be left behind who “thought” that they knew CHRIST. Don’t forget Matthew 7:21-23 as another witness to those who will get left behind. “Weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth” are symptoms of extreme anguish, not necessarily being in hell or the lake of fire. Just food for thought. Remember, all this is “Thus sayeth BuffaloBilly” not “Thus sayeth THE LORD”. Is your Bible new AND a KJV or is it a NKJV? Also, Grant Jeffrey (now deceased) has an excellent study Bible for prophecy and that is the one that I recommend. I think his site is still active (, but if it is not, you can purchase his Bible through Blessings to you and your family, my sister in CHRIST, BuffaloBilly I am here to serve…

      • Skywatcher

        BB, Char, and all, may I jump in here for a second, please?

        Through all my 50 years with Christ in my life, my very extensive Bible college training, and having heard many sermons from very godly and God-fearing pastors, I noticed some common ground: anyone who had heard the gospel message prior to the Rapture and had rejected Christ, would NOT be inclined AT ALL to receive Him after the Rapture because:
        1. The strong delusion
        2. Their immeasurable grief and remorse
        3. Mark 8: 38, they were ashamed of Him, and therefore, they know that He is ashamed of them

        BB, you said, “Those who thought that they knew CHRIST and those (who) could not make the decision on time…these will be the first people to get right with GOD, accept JESUS as LORD, and become the first witnesses in the tribulation.”

        We have no evidence in Scripture to support this. These are the very people that the strong delusion is sent to! Others who have never heard of Christ, WERE ALREADY disillusioned.

        These theologians ALL agree that if they didn’t want Him in the “good times” of their life, they would definitely NOT want Him when the going was absolutely tough. Like Adam and Eve after they sinned, they ran from God, not to Him.

        These dear people will be sooo disillusioned and dismayed in God, and disappointed in themselves, that they will NOT want anything to do with Him at all! They will be blinded by their guilt and suffering, so much so, that they will turn their backs on Him and hate Him. They will NOT accept their responsibility in their being left behind, but they will blame God and everybody else. Therefore, they will despise anything that even remotely reminds of them of God, because they will know that their doom is sealed. This hatred will call for the beheading of those who do convert to Christ.

        Do NOT forget, there is going to be some mighty “magical” technological stuff going on (the image comes to life), that will strongly distract them, and convince them that they were “right all along.” Once again, pride will blind their eyes.
        The Holy Spirit will NOT be ministering on an individual basis as He is doing now. He will settle upon those who never heard His message before, and will appreciate it.

        Something we need to consider a bit more, I believe, is the whole purpose of the G.T.: to restore Israel unto Himself. The 144,000 are primarily ministering to the Jews, however, there will be millions of OTHERS, even in our own countries who have NEVER heard the gospel before, and many of them will receive Christ. Those who receive Christ after the Rapture will have to lay down their lives for Him, (Rev. 20: 4). Beheading will be in vogue at that point. The fear factor and Satan’s deceptive tools will be a huge factor in discouraging people from receiving Christ also.

        I know this all sounds very negative and somber, but that’s why we have been given the Great Commission…to see as many saved NOW while there is still a hunger and thirst for righteousness. I hope this will give a little more “light” to the topic. Isn’t it fun to study God’s Word?! Who said it, “It’s boring!” ? God richly bless you, and all yours today!

        • Howdy Skywatcher, Oh my, brother…you should know that your confirmation about my post is important. Don’t forget that you have loads of more experience with the Bible and behind a pulpit than I will ever have. I still have a couple of points of contention though. (1) Your operative word in all this is those who REJECT the Gospel. Those who thought that they were saved and weren’t, or those backsliders who were practicing sin never rejected the Gospel. They were disobedient or in rebellion. I don’t see how they could fall for the strong delusion. The scriptural evidence would be in 2 Thess 2:10b-12: “…because they received NOT the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
          (11) And for this cause GOD shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (12)That they all might be damned who BELIEVED NOT THE TRUTH, BUT HAD PLEASURE IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS”. These people rejected the Gospel message; the backsliders fall into Matthew 7:21-23; those who were putting off salvation, heard the message and didn’t reject it…they just put it off as I did so many years. Those who outright reject the Gospel have earned their condemnation, but not those who simply said “not now”. There is a clear difference in delaying a decision and totally rejecting an offer. It is all about the “heart” and God will judge righteously and accordingly. About the signs and wonders…Matthew 24:24 “For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, they shall deceive the very elect. All the cool toys and magical stuff (great signs and wonders) will not fool GOD’S Chosen…maybe some gentiles, but JESUS makes it clear that Jews will not be fooled. Lastly, it is not feasible to me that a just GOD would send anyone into the tribulation having NOT heard the gospel message and NOT be given a chance to escape, just as it would be unjust for GOD to send anyone into perdition who has not had a chance to accept JESUS. If it is the LORD’S will that none should perish, then all will have heard the Gospel message and have had a chance to accept, delay, or reject. As you know, All those billions of souls who worship false idols will be eligible for the strong delusion…as will atheists. That may be 90% of the earth’s population. Polls show that roughly 10% of the “Christian” population believe in the five-fold ministry and what might the percentage be of those 10% who “fear the LORD” and are in strict obedience to HIS WORD? The TWO WITNESSES and the 144,000 Hebrew servants are in Israel…who will be in the gentile worlds to witness if ALL are under strong delusion? Who will be the martyrs in the 5th seal? Who are those who came out of Great Tribulation in Rev 7:13-14? Who are the martyrs in Rev 20:4? Who will be the “sheep” nations if all are under the strong delusion? While the scriptural evidence may not be direct, there is a plethora of circumstantial evidence that begs the question. And as for Adam and Eve, they knew GOD and hid from him because of their sin..and both had walked with HIM. They were not condemned to hell, but chastised by being booted out of Eden. They were chastised because of their backsliding adventure. If THE LORD says that “I will heal them of their backsliding…” what better way to do that in the endtimes than to give the backsliders a taste of tribulation…what better way to help those “on the fence” about JESUS than to give them a taste of tribulation. Naturally, these are my thoughts based on what I read, but in any event…as you said…we must be about our FATHER’S business. Kindly, BBB (Brother BuffaloBilly)

          • Skywatcher

            OHHHHH! Brother BBB (BuffaloBillyBoy) :)!

            You ask much of a tired “young man”!

            I’m not making excuses, but would you mind if I address this when I’m wide awake and alert tomorrow? I’ve been up since 4 a.m., and with roughly only four hours sleep, I don’t trust myself not to make a mistake, and I’m too tired to think straight or to do due diligence in my exegesis!

            I promise, I won’t let you down. I WILL attempt to reply to ALL that! What is it with us long-winded drinks of water anyway! lol

            Thanks, for your patience and understanding!

          • Skywatcher

            Good afternoon, BuffaloBilly and all! Well here goes! It’s 12:10 p.m. here, so I’ll try to do this in a couple of hours. I can use many more supporting Scriptures, but today, I’m feeling lazy, and will provide that which is sufficient to deal with the topics at hand. Please forgive me! Apparently, I’ve used too much space; this will have to be in two chapters!

            You said, “Your operative word in all this is those who REJECT the Gospel. Those who thought that they were saved and weren’t, or those backsliders who were practicing sin never rejected the Gospel. They were disobedient or in rebellion. I don’t see how they could fall for the strong delusion.”

            They have already fallen for a much more simple delusion, or they would not have been backslidden or rejecting Christ in the first place. The “strong delusion” will sweep them off their feet even faster and farther away from God. Satan says, “Go ahead and do it. You KNOW you wanna! Hate ’em back; take revenge! It’s fun; nobody will ever know…” You’re as familiar with his wiles as I am.

            When one opts to yield to temptation, they have temporarily stepped out from under the protective covering of the blood of Christ, Exod. 12: 12, 13. God’s grace then kicks in…If they confess to God and seriously repent, they will be saved. Should the Rapture happen while they’re away from His protection for a prolonged period of time, they’re in very serious trouble. The moment we decide to serve Satan or self, are we then serving Christ? Are we still in perfect fellowship? Of course not! It is severed by guilt, shame, and remorse, just as it was in the Garden. Things come between our God and ourselves at this point.

            Christ said, “No man can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one, and love the other: or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” Mt. 6: 24

            Now…that begs the question, what if I “stretched the truth” or exaggerated a little, resulting in a “little white lie”? Will that cost me my salvation? Of course not! UNLESS it’s a daily practice, and then it becomes a “long term” sin that isn’t being dealt with. One CANNOT be caught up in any sin for any amount of time without the Holy Spirit immediately checking them on it! To continue to do so is to willingly say, “Lord, you can take a backseat for awhile; it’s all about me today”!

            Bro, there is no slicing this any thinner! Those who backslide are temporarily or for the long term, rejecting the Christ of the gospel. If Christ’s not in the driver’s seat of our lives, then who is? There is never any good excuse for jumping out of a lifeboat and into shark infested waters!

            Apostle Paul dealt with this quite nicely by saying that grace is not a license or an excuse to continue to sin. Rom. 6: 1.

            In the church today, we have those who believe they’re saved merely for having said a sinner’s prayer. They believe they can go out and live like hell and reap the rewards of Heaven. That’s a huge deception! These people are church goers (sinners who may or may not profess to be saints but really aren’t). When there has been true repentance, and they’ve truly experienced Christ in their life, there is always fruit to follow! Mt. 7: 16, 20. One of the fruits that I look for is a hunger and a thirst for righteousness. If it’s not there, their oil jar is empty! The King is NOT in residence there!

            As you’ll notice, I’m not typing out all the passages or I’ll have to catch up with the raptured saints a little later on!

            You said, and I love this, “These people rejected the Gospel message; the backsliders fall into Matthew 7:21-23; those who were putting off salvation, heard the message and didn’t reject it…they just put it off as I did so many years. Those who outright reject the Gospel have earned their condemnation, but not those who simply said “not now”.”

            This passage also refers to those in active service for the Lord, using wrong tools, impure motives, etc. They’re both in the same camp, should their soul be required of them or if the Rapture happens first. Here’s the proof, “…behold, now is the accepted time; behold, NOW is the day of salvation.” 2 Cor. 6: 2b.

            (Emphasis mine, of course). Why is “NOW” so important? One might not have tomorrow, or even the rest of the present day to pick the fruit off the tree of life and to eat it. There is eternal danger in putting Christ off, as we clearly see. Brother BB, you were blessed with an extra portion of grace as you were putting Him off. If you had died before applying the blood to the doorpost of your heart, the Grim Reaper would’ve had another soul in his creel.

            You said, “Those who outright reject the Gospel have earned their condemnation, but not those who simply said “not now”.”

            Rom. 3: 23 says we are ALL sinners. 6: 23 says we have ALL earned death. Eph. 2: 8,9 cements the conclusion, “It’s not of works…”. We ALL deserved condemnation.Procrastination is not a good or acceptable excuse in God’s eyes. One is either pregnant or they’re not! Nobody goes on maternity leave because they are thinking about getting pregnant at a later time! They don’t reap any benefits until the baby arrives! The longer one puts off the Holy Spirit when He is wooing them to Christ, the faster they will cool off, and eventually not be able to hear His voice any longer. The moment will have passed, and eventually, they too, will catch up with that moment.

            Remember…the Holy Spirit symbolized Himself in the form of a dove at Christ’s baptism. Doves are timid little birds, very easily scared away. They don’t like confrontations, and will quickly flee to safer places where they will be well received.

            “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” Rev. 20: 15. When does ones name get written in the book? When they get the urge to merge with Christ but don’t, or when they actively and cognitively invite Him to be their Savior and Lord? Which is it? We both know it is the latter. Everybody reading this has heard the adage, “The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.”

            What if Christ had said, I believe I’ll put my sacrificial death off until next Wednesday, and something happened to Him before it could come to pass? Where would that leave mankind? All any of us ever have is this moment; the next one may usher any of us into eternity, with or without Christ! With all the strokes, heart attacks, aneurysms, accidents, bombings, shootings, viruses, etc., these days, one would be a fool to pass up Christ today, in exchange for the false hope that we may have a tonight or tomorrow. “Now is the accepted time!”

            You said, “All the cool toys and magical stuff (great signs and wonders) will not fool GOD’S Chosen…maybe some gentiles, but JESUS makes it clear that Jews will not be fooled.”

            I have to disagree with you, as you expected! 🙂 There is something more that is implied in those highlighted words, “IF IT WERE POSSIBLE”. I say that because there is and has been great confusion about the drops of sweat that Christ perspired in the Garden of Gethsemane, Lu. 22: 44. Some folks believe the sweat drops were actually blood drops. That’s not correct. It clearly says, “as it were”, and “as” is a simile, meaning, “like” great drops of blood.

            As for the impossibility of the Jews being fooled…they had Jesus Christ, the Great I AM, standing in their very midst! He did many miracles (signs and wonders) among them, AND He told them who He was and yet, MOST rejected Him! There is absolutely nothing greater that can fool them!

            I like this one, as it is the “lastly” part and I’m making progress! 🙂

            You said, “Lastly, it is not feasible to me that a just GOD would send anyone into the tribulation having NOT heard the gospel message and NOT be given a chance to escape, just as it would be unjust for GOD to send anyone into perdition who has not had a chance to accept JESUS.”

            I would like to agree with you on that one, but unfortunately, I cannot. God doesn’t send anyone into the G.T. By rejecting His free offer of salvation through Jesus Christ “NOW”, in the “good times”, these people have involuntarily CHOSEN to go there. It’s automatic. He cannot send anyone into Hell anymore than He can send someone into Heaven. That’s why Apostle Paul said, “How shall they hear without a preacher?” Rom. 10: 14. This is strong evidence that we MUST do our part to get the message out there! Much hangs upon our obedience to our mandate!

            That’s why He gave us the Great Commission…to spare souls from the Great Tribulation and the Lake of Fire to follow! People will go through the G.T. because we have let them down and not witnessed to them or we have witnessed to them and they have rejected it. Fortunately, for those who have NEVER heard the gospel on this side of the Rapture (they are all around us!), they are some of the people whom the two witnesses and the 144,000 Jewish evangelists will be attempting to reach.

            Let us not forget…the G.T. is primarily focused upon the Jews, used as a tool to bring them back to God, and to the Gentiles, it is used to judge. During this time, others will come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. They will NOT be a part of the Church / Body of Christ. Their souls are before the throne of God, and what they do there, I do not know; God’s Word gives no indication, other than serving. We may think this is the honor of the highest kind, but I don’t believe so! That should be reserved for the Bride, which as we know are “kings and priests”. Our roles may be magnified millions of times in comparison to these throne room saints. Maybe they’re deposited there and left as a stark reminder, that that could’ve been our fate if we had rejected Christ until the last minute. To have such a reminder would serve to make us that much more grateful for and obedient to the call He has placed upon us at that time.

            Who knows. These people will be like the thief on the cross beside Christ; he had a chance to go to Heaven and He asked and received. There will be no reward crowns there for Him to cast at Christ’s feet. His fire insurance policy paid off in that he was spared, but without all the benefits as those that were received by the Church and the O.T. saints, i.e. reward crowns, mansions, kingdoms, etc.

          • Skywatcher

            BBB: Chapter 2!

            Chapter 2

            You said, “If it is the LORD’S will that none should perish, then all will have heard the Gospel message and have had a chance to accept, delay, or reject.”

            Yes, it IS the Lord’s will that NONE should perish, but in His infinite wisdom, He gave man a free will to choose for himself. That continues after the Rapture of the saints. We know from the words of Christ that many will not choose to accept His offer of salvation, therefore eternal separation from God is their end, “Enter ye in at the strait gate; for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat; because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”

            At the foot of the cross, my dear brother, the ground is level. Each and every person has the opportunity to “choose this day whom ye will serve”, Josh. 24: 15. For many years in N. America, there have been reminders of God all over the place! In schools, courthouses, court rooms, and other public buildings, statues, and headstones. Presently, a prophecy is being fulfilled on a global scale! There is NOT a single country or nation (group of people) who have NOT been evangelized, but yet, there are still those who will not pause long enough to listen. They have been brainwashed to follow after the Darwinian god of evolution or the gods of human secularism or liberalization, rejecting the God of the Universe.

            That is why our mandate to reach the lost for Christ is so imperative! That’s why Peter, Paul, and so many others were missionaries, taking the gospel to places it had never been heard before. They realized their mandate and accepted the charge because the cost was too great if they didn’t!

            I’ve spent much time in research for your following question, and all for nought! The Holy Spirit just now gave me answer, “The TWO WITNESSES and the 144,000 Hebrew servants are in Israel…who will be in the gentile worlds to witness if ALL are under strong delusion?”

            Nowhere in Scripture does it say from WHERE God pulled the 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes out of! Obviously, God is going to raise some of these people up to be evangelists from all over the world! Why? I’m glad you asked! So that ALL Jews and others get to hear the gospel and decide for themselves.

            “if all are under strong delusion”…II Thess. 2: 11 doesn’t say that “ALL” will be under strong delusion. It says, “And for this cause God shall send THEM strong delusion…” Apparently, those select 144,000 will be spared from this.

            You asked, “Who will be the martyrs in the 5th seal? Who are those who came out of Great Tribulation in Rev 7:13-14? Who are the martyrs in Rev 20:4?”

            They’re one and the same.

            Who will be the “sheep” nations if all are under the strong delusion? Again, “all” are not under the delusion.

            I see what you’re doing, you rascal! You’re making me rewrite my Eschatology exam, to see if my answers align with yours. Whose your Father? 🙂 LOL

            You said, “And as for Adam and Eve, they knew GOD and hid from him because of their sin..and both had walked with HIM. They were not condemned to hell, but chastised by being booted out of Eden.”

            We don’t really know if they went to Paradise or not. Don’t forget…God did introduce a sacrificial system. Did they also “pull a Cain” and decide to do things their own way or God’s way? At the time of Adam’s death, there doesn’t appear to be any knowledge of the hereafter, or at least, none that I can see. We therefore, don’t know if they had “walked with God” in the sense of righteousness or not. If you have a Scripture reference to back that, I’d be pleased to see it. Enoch is the only one who “walked with God”, in that sense and context.

            Yes, they were booted out of Eden, and that was their earthly punishment. Their fellowship with God had been severed, and we do not see any indication in Genesis that it was ever restored, do we? After being tossed out of Eden, there is NO record of God having any personal dealings with them.

            Finally…”If THE LORD says that “I will heal them of their backsliding…” what better way to do that in the endtimes than to give the backsliders a taste of tribulation…what better way to help those “on the fence” about JESUS than to give them a taste of tribulation.”

            You’re looking for a warning shot over the bow! That concept works well now, whilst we still have the Presence and Power of the Holy Spirit working in our midst. After the Rapture, He will be removed and the strong delusion will kick in. I’m convinced it is already started, but will intensify after “… he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.” II Thess. 2: 7.

            Remember, not all tribulations are the Great Tribulation. The tribulations (trials and testings) come to make us stronger and to develop character within us. They also serve to bring us back to God, when we are obedient to this form of correction. I say that for the benefit of other readers; I know you know that, BBB

            God will definitely heal them of their backsliding…those who receive Christ and faithfully serve Him until death due them part. Those who reject Christ’s final offer through the witnesses, will NOT be “healed of their backsliding”. They will be given over to their rewards that they wasted their lives laboring toward.

            I hope this helps to clarify those nagging questions. It is now 5:11 p.m.. I’ve had a number of brief distractions but it was fun! I’m glad I could help you out in your Bible study group! 🙂 LOL!!!

            God bless you, Bro! Keep being a good Berean for Jesus!

  • Char

    BuffaloBilly, Hey, that makes sense to me. I hope your idea is correct. I heard some ministers say that the church will be more packed right AFTER the rapture than they ever were BEFORE the rapture. It’s too bad they will have to be martyred, but it’s better than missing out completely and letting Satan get his way. The bible is not new, but it is a KJV, not an NKJV. Whoever had it before they gave it to my daughter obviously never even opened it. It looks brand new on the pages. I have an NKJV. I never even knew (before this website) that I was supposed to read only a KJV. I think I mentioned in another post that I bought my NIV at the bookstore at that Laodicean church I was attending for over a year. I even have a Joyce Meyer Bible. I know booooo. So I finally have the right one and I’ve been reading it (your verses too). I used to watch Grant Jeffrey every Thursday night. I was so upset when I heard he passed away. He wasn’t that old. I often wondered why the Lord took him since he was doing a good work for the church, but ours is not to reason why. Blessings to you too, Brother! When we ALL get to heaven Geoffrey should shout out, “everybody from the NTEB website, come over here so we can meet and greet one another!” lol

    • Skywatcher

      Hello, Char! You said, “I heard some ministers say that the church will be more packed right AFTER the rapture than they ever were BEFORE the rapture.”

      That’s a huge lie and it should never be well received! Those who are saved during the G.T. are called tribulation saints, however, they do NOT make up the Bride of Christ, the Church! It’s wrong on another level also: The Mark of the Beast will prevent them from gathering together in a “church” building, as they will be hunted down like rabbits!

      Char, you said, “I used to watch Grant Jeffrey every Thursday night. I was so upset when I heard he passed away. He wasn’t that old. I often wondered why the Lord took him since he was doing a good work for the church, but ours is not to reason why.”

      I had most of his books at one time, and have since loaned some out and they never came back. He was well ahead of his time, and his books that I have left, when I read them, they are like reading today’s newspapers! He was uncannily right on target! Unless he was an insider of the Illuminati (which I doubt), only God could’ve revealed those things to him. How did he die? Does anybody know? He was so young, only 53, I think he was.

      Char, you said, “When we ALL get to heaven Geoffrey should shout out, “everybody from the NTEB website, come over here so we can meet and greet one another!”

      AMEN!!! Blessings! I have more comments to stick my proboscis into ! 🙂

  • Ellen H

    I am a Pentacostal, having had a direct, personal encounter with God in 2004. Prior to that I had been drifting, having left the Catholic church many years prior. I had searched and attended many different denominations and finally decided I no longer believed in God and stopped searching (or so I thought). On January 5, 2004, I was driving, minding my own business and God got a hold of me directing me to this church where I went in, asked to speak to the pastor and spent the next couple of hours with him talking about Christ, who He is, why He came, why I needed Him ( I am a sinner and needed to repent). I did, and accepted Him that day and never looked back. Just as in other denominations there are different schools of theology on worship, apologetics, hermeneutics, eschatology,etc. Pentacostalism is mainly identified and concerned with the aspect of the personal relationship with Christ, the relationship of the pastor, teacher, evangelist, apostles and prophets as talked about in Ephesians chapter 4:11-13 (And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ)to build up the body of Christ. There is also the focus on the more dramatic; the speaking in tongues, manifestation of the Holy Spirit, Joel 2:28-29 (And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit) and also in the Book of Acts 2:1-4 (And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance). And we can all quote the other verses talking about the gifts of the spirit including speaking in tongues, prophesying, etc. Do I think that people misuse these? Absolutely. I also think that God has to work that out of a person. My pastor has since retired and the assistant pastor took over about 7 years ago. Do I agree with everything he says or does. No. But that is where wisdom and discernment come in, as well as lots of prayer and reading, reading, reading the Word. We all need that foundation. My first prayer each and every day is “God, please don’t let me be deceived.” I know when something isn’t right. I’ve been to “revivals” where emotions ran high and sure it feels great, but too many people get addicted to chasing the emotion, rather than God. Or they chase the entertainment; a Christian band, or a particular preacher and forget that it’s about Christ and what He did. I don’t get everything right. I don’t argue with people or eschatology because the truth is, we simply don’t know. God does. I have my thoughts. I LOVE that subject. I read and study and DEVOUR everything I can on the issue. I’ve compared Matthew and Revelation to the point of making charts and timelines. I have my thoughts, but that doesn’t mean I KNOW. Is it a faith breaker if it doesn’t go down the way I think it will? No. But I’m afraid for some people it will because they are expecting a certain time frame and if/when it doesn’t happen that way, they will end up deceived because they won’t know or understand that it isn’t time yet. That our time isn’t finished yet and they will fall away. I am always receptive to feedback. I want to have a teachable spirit and not be closed-minded. I tend toward being legalistic and I know this about myself so I try to walk a careful line because I can get bogged down in rules, details and guilt (you know that old Catholic thing), instead of His grace. We can all learn from each other, and we should be willing to listen, rebuke, repent when necessary, to help each other. God bless you all as you walk on your journey. Fight the good fight. Daniel 12:3 “Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.”

    • Skywatcher

      Sister, Ellen H, that was a wonderful testimony and a good word to boot! What are your feelings on this Heidi “ministry”? You’ve seen my previous post, as a former Pentecostal pastor, so I’d like to hear your opinion too, please! God bless you!

      • Ellen H

        Skywatcher, to be honest, it made me sick to my stomach, I had a really hard time watching this. That boy was not under the presence of the Holy Spirit. That was not peace. I’ve felt the presence of the Holy Spirit and it sure wasn’t that, that, gut-wrenching screaming and writhing. As someone who shares the Gospel (or any of us), we have an obligation to get it right, for we WILL be held accountable for what we say and if we mislead people? That frightens me a great deal. So think about all these “ministers” who mislead people by the THOUSANDS every week in mega-churches… It breaks my heart to think of what is happening to them spiritually.

        • Skywatcher

          Thank you, Ellen H! I share your astute observation! That was definitely not of God, and that’s from two Pentecostals. Thank you!

  • Howdy Skywatcher, Okay. BBB

  • You people are blind and ignorant not having the spirit of truth, I pray you awake. When fire and anointing gets around the demonic they manifest. Stop judging in you ignorance before you curse yourself worse

    • Skywatcher

      Me, when the real Lord Jesus Christ is in the house, the demons flee! As you saw in the video, they didn’t flee, but they hung on to this poor young man. Doesn’t anything about that scene grip you as being unbiblical? If you’re a truly born again Christian, the presence of that demon and the one who imparted it to him would’ve been clearly manifested to you through discernment.

      Demons are used to “fire” and “anointing” as you call it. In the Satanic /occult world, they have their own anointings, and like this manifestation, they do NOT align with God’s Word. So please, do NOT be standing up for and defending the works that Christ would call the “works of the devil”. I know He’s not happy about you doing that.

  • Char

    Hmmmm, look who’s talking????? You’re being just as judgmental as you say they are!

  • Howdy Skywatcher, Before I start my stunning defense, I need to know something. What is your position on Gen 6 Who do you say the “sons of GOD” are? Hurry before I forget everything… BBB

    • Skywatcher

      Hey there, my Southern Brother!

      The “sons of God” are fallen angels. Their offspring are Nephilim. I hope that was fast enough for ya! 🙂 I’m going to bed VERY SOON, so I’ll have enough energy to digest your incoming missile! 🙂 I think I’d rather be fishin’!

  • Char

    Skywatcher, VERY GOOD LESSON!!!!! Well written and understood! Thank you so much for giving us this insight. I think I was the one who asked this original question of BB. It’s certainly frightening for our children and loved ones, but it is what it is. Plenty of warning from God, so they will have no excuse. Let’s just stay positive and have faith that ALL of them will come to know Him before it’s too late! Thank you again for this painstaking, time consuming lesson! God will reward you and BuffaloBilly for your efforts in His Word. God Bless!

    • Skywatcher

      Good morning, Char, and all! Thank you, for the compliment. It was actually fun to do! I love it when “iron sharpeneth iron”! Brace yourself! I think there is more coming. I only read the first line of BB’s reply…I’m saving the VERY BEST till last! 🙂 I’ll have some fun with that one too, I’m sure!

      Yes, we will stay positive and not let our faith waver in regards to our belief that Christ will save our children before the Rapture. James 1: 6, 7, “But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering, For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind of tossed about. 7. For let not that man think that he shall reveive any ting of the Lord.”

      We surely do not want that to happen! I’m very anxious to hear what Bob is going to bring home today for conversation material! For those reading this, PLEASE pray that “Bob” is NOT enticed by this JW co-worker, but that he will hear things from him that will provoke him to serious soul-searching and ultimately to Christ as Savior and Lord!

      May you all, and yours experience the “peace that passeth all understanding” today and always!

  • Char, The lessons aren’t over yet. I am going to give part 1 of my defense and then go fishing. Saturday, I will give part 2 of my defense and then brace myself. FYI So you know to whom the Feasts belong…LEV 23:2 “Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the Feasts of THE LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are MY FEASTS”. Lev 23 has all the Feasts in there so you will have good reading. Another excellent study is of a JEWISH wedding from the betrothal to the wedding feast. Stay tuned to thisd channel for more exciting highlights, after a word from OUR SPONSOR… BuffaloBilly

  • Char

    BB, that is good. I love to learn about the future after the rapture and into the tribulation and also the feasts, so I will await your post. Happy Fishing, fella!

  • Howdy Skywatcher, First and foremost, I am not in disagreement with most of what you said. BUT… I have a few points of contention. Adam had to be walking with GOD before they sinned. GOD was walking in the garden in the cool of the day and called out to Adam. To me, this implies that they had walked together at times previous and it had to be in righteousness because this was before original sin and unrighteousness was brought into the world. Secondly, although they were banished from Eden because of their sin, GOD clothed them, or restored them to fellowship beforehand. Interestingly, Gen 2:25 says, “And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed”. This is the only place in the scriptures where I can find “nakedness” or being unclothed spoken of in a positive manner. Otherwise, it was sin to see parents nakedness, the wedding guest in Matt 22 was kicked out of the wedding feast because he had no robe, Rev 3:4-the church of Sardis is praised for not having soiled its garments, Rev 3:17 The church of the Laodiceans is castigated for being wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and NAKED…there have to be scads more, but these should be sufficient witnesses for Gen 3 :21 and the LORD’S restoration of Adam and Eve. GOD covered their sin essentially and thus restored them to fellowship despite the lack of further scriptural evidence. Clothing is a huge metaphor for righteousness and acceptance of THE LORD.
    About the 144,000…You’re right, scripture doesn’t reveal their global location(s). I have learned something there and will pursue it more. However, I still stand by my assertion that not all of the global population (discounting the 144,000) will be under strong delusion. The scripture (2 Thess 2:11-12) goes on to say that “They all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had PLEASURE IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.” I read these two verses as those who flat out reject the Gospel of CHRIST. L. A. Marzulli, a man whom I think is on the cutting edge of eschatology today, kinda hints at what “The Lie” might be (the strong delusion) and I am kinda in his camp about this because it will be an easy lie to foist on an unbelieving world. BTW I wasn’t saying that ALL inhabitants of the earth would be under strong delusion, just those who “Rejected” the Gospel…atheists, and all the other idolatrous religions of the world. That’s a lot of people! Well, this concludes part 1 of my defense. As you know from many of my previous posts, I don’t fire missiles and you would be the last one I would do that to anyway…but it is not my way. About the nephilim…DO I HAVE A SURPRISE FOR YOU!!! In CHRIST, BuffaloBilly PS We have the same FATHER…you know that, but I am a bit of a rascal…

    • Skywatcher

      Well hello there, Brother BB bass fisher! You are a bit of a rascal, I agree, but I can’t help but be grateful that you’re my brother rascal in Christ! 🙂

      Let’s get down to business, and short it will be! You disappoint me! I was expecting a profound theological challenge!

      I believe you misread my reply re: Adam’s walk with God. I don’t dispute he and Eve had been walking with God prior to the fall. I said, we don’t know for sure if he continued to walk with God after his eviction from the Garden.

      Nakedness… Yes, God clothed them, but we must be careful with some of the deeper implications that one can extrapolate from such a simple act. Neither one of us has any proof one way or the other if Adam and Eve walked with God after the fall. We know that God blessed them with children afterwards, or at least, we assume it was afterwards. To assume one way or the other can be dangerous. We can leave this one now; it’s immaterial! No pun intended! 🙂

      You said, “the wedding guest in Matt 22 was kicked out of the wedding feast because he had no robe…” He wasn’t naked! He just wasn’t dressed appropriately for the occasion.

      BB: “Rev 3:4-the church of Sardis is praised for not having soiled its garments…”

      I’d praise the saints too, if they’d kindly refrain from soiling their garments!

      BB: “The church of the Laodiceans is castigated for being wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and NAKED…”

      Yep! They were spiritually naked! They didn’t have Christ’s robe of righteousness upon them. They had a form of godliness, but they didn’t have the power. II Ti. 3: 5.

      BB: “However, I still stand by my assertion that not all of the global population (discounting the 144,000) will be under strong delusion.”

      Brother, you need to slow down when reading my posts, apparently. I agree with you on that point. Not ALL will be under the delusion, otherwise, what would be the point of having the two witnesses and the 144,000 evangelists? This is waaaaay too easy! I hope you give the bass a more difficult time than this!

      BB: “They all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had PLEASURE IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.”

      Again, God’s Word stands true and firm! Those who fall to the strong delusion will be damned; those who listen to the message of the Evangelists will be saved.

      BB: ” L. A. Marzulli, a man whom I think is on the cutting edge of eschatology today, kinda hints at what “The Lie” might be (the strong delusion) and I am kinda in his camp about this because it will be an easy lie to foist on an unbelieving world.”

      I’d like to say I taught L.A. Marzulli everything he knows; we’re in total agreement from what I’ve heard of him thus far! 🙂 I have some of his DVD’s and it’s a major WOW!!!! For those of you who do not have any of them or who do not know who L.A. Marzulli is, he’s an awesome brother in Christ, whom He has raised up for such a time as we are living. As far as I’m concerned, God is using men like he, Tom Horn, Cris Putnam, Chuck Missler, Michael Pearl, Gary Stearman, Russ Dizdar, Dr. Sharon Gilbert, and a host of others to reveal the secrets that Daniel was told to “seal up until the end”!

      BB: ” About the nephilim…DO I HAVE A SURPRISE FOR YOU!!! ”

      I SURE HOPE SO! This was a bit of a let down! I was expecting something difficult 🙂 PLEASE don’t tell me you have a couple of Nephilim in your closet! That would have to be a huge house to hold such a closet! Don’t keep me waiting too much longer for your next “friendly firing”! I have lots of bandages for those tiny wounds!

      Love ya, Brother Bass Baiter, oops! I meant BuffaloBilly! (Snicker) I really enjoy your sense of humor!

    • Edwitness

      I have been reading your conversation with Skywatcher and have a couple of issues with your conclusions.
      1st. Adam and Eve were sent out of the Garden because God did not want them to eat from the tree of life and live forever. Gen.3:22-24.
      2nd. Adam and Eve hid from God because they were afraid. Gen.3:10. Not because they were naughty(sinned). It has something to do with the power of death that ruled over them(Rom.5:12) and the rest of mankind that caused them and us to fear. Paul said as much in Heb.2:15.
      3rd. Did you notice that when it says they were not ashamed at their nakedness the scripture never says otherwise? Even after their eyes were opened? I am not ashamed to be naked in my wife’s presence. And I am sure that is the case with most married people.
      4th. You are absolutely correct in saying that in some instances “clothing is a huge metaphore for righteousness.” And I believe that to be the case with Adam and Eve.

      I am enjoying your conversation with Skywatcher.
      Blessings to you BuffaloBilly and to you Skywatcher:-}

      • Skywatcher

        Good afternoon, Edwitness! Good to hear from you! I think BB is away fishing today; I just got back from doing the same a few minutes ago. It is a balmy +6 C, and the lake was mostly ice-free, but the wind was a mite chilly! Caught nothing, but we had several hours outside!

        Thank you, for the blessings, and I agree with your issues. It’s really a blessing to have more than one person look in on a particular thought or Scripture passage because we can all bring a different outlook, raise different questions, etc. That’s how the Gospel writers found it to be, no doubt. I’m anxious to hear BB’s reply to your excellent observations! God bless you too! 🙂

      • Howdy Ed, Well now, this is my second attempt to address your concerns. I finished the first try and then promptly lost my internet connection and ultimately the reply. So…here we go… I agree with your first point on why Adam and Eve were evicted from the Garden, but it still was ultimately because of the sin. Had they not sinned, there would have been no point to evict them as they were not under the influence of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and would have had no need to eat of the tree of life since they already had that. As for point 2, they were afraid because they were now aware of their nakedness and subsequent shame. They were never afraid before they sinned so their fear had to be a consequence of that sin and eventually. Yes, they were under the bondage of death (Heb 2:15), but I don’t think that is the reason for their fear. It’s kinda like that “uh-oh” moment when you have just broken your mom’s precious Ming Dynasty vase…fear of reprisal. While we are not ashamed of our nakedness in front of our wives, I am confining that topic to scripture only. The scriptures do tell us that it was shame or sin to look on another’s nakedness. I don’t know them offhand, but I recall reading them–never thought that I would need their reference. I appreciate your interest and there is more to come since I have not replied to Skywatcher’s part A yet…but that is next. Stay tuned… Blessinbgs to you, BuffaloBilly

        • Edwitness

          I don’t like it much when that happens. Computers can be so frustrating.

          Shame is not a part of the response to the eyes of Adam and Eve being opened. The scripture very carefully avoids that description concerning Adam and Eve. You are correct however about the fear that they felt because God had told them that “in the day you eat thereof you shall surely die.” With their eyes opened they now knew what death was and did not care for the idea of facing it. I would hide too. And while it is true that their sin opened them up to what followed, it is death, and not sin, that spread to all mankind as a result of Adam’s sin. Rom.5:12. Adam’s sin did not spread to mankind. Romans5:14. “In Adam all died.” 1stCor.15:22. Not, in Adam all sinned.

          The death that spread unto all men from Adam’s sin is physical death. Because Adam was not spiritual. He was natural. 1stCor.15:46,47. All men are going to die physically. Separation from God (death reigning) is the condition or ground for all men sinning. It is defined this way; With only our natural senses to relate to others, we naturally choose that which we can relate to for our god. Something natural. That which was made. An idol. Some would refer to this as a sin nature, but that is really just Augustinian thinking. The Bible calls it the natural man. 1stCor.2:14. But, when we are born again we are then able to relate to a spiritual God. The true God. Because we are then made spiritual. John3:3-8.

          I will enjoy reading your response to Skywatcher and what you have regarding our conversation also.
          I am blessed to call you brother,

          • Howdy Ed, I have had nothing but issues with my network tonight. I finally went outside and kicked the comcast cables and now everything works fine. I am just not a big fan of technology (except for stereo and home theater). When I read Romans 5:12, I see that sin entered first, and death by sin. In Rom 5:19 “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners…” I am not disagreeing with you as I know that death entered the world via Adam’s sin, but he had to sin FIRST before death could enter; and as Romans 3:23 says, :”All have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD; and the wages of sin is death. Here is a little BB tidbit; I relate death to time. Before he sinned, Adam was in an eternal state with direct access to GOD and all the knowledge that he could want. When he sinned and death entered, time entered; death is time because, according to Newton’s second law of thermodynamics–“All things tend to disorder” or die! Our mortality is limited because our time is limited; death ensues because we run out of time so to speak. In eternity, there is no time;ergo, we live forever! Not scriptural (I think) but an interesting concept of death nevertheless. Of course, I could be wrong about everything… I have written my response to Skywatcher so please go easy on me, also. I like reading y’all’s posts too but I think I have to change my input quantity some. OY! Blessings to you, too my Brother, BuffaloBilly

  • Char

    Skywatcher, hey there. Bob just got home a little while ago and, as I said before, he doesn’t work in the same place every day, so he didn’t see him today. Yippy Skippy. I hope he never goes to the same jobsite again that Jeremiah is on. So, I will have to just keep you updated because I can’t just run upstairs and say, “so what did Jeremiah say to you today?” I have to work my way into conversations with him sometimes. Thanks so much for your concern and prayers. They are much needed and appreciated.

    • Skywatcher

      That’s good, Char, but if he does have to work with Jeremiah, that’s also a good thing. When he shares with you what has been said, you can sit down with your KJV and prove it wrong, so easily!

  • Char

    Skywatcher, I’m just afraid if my son works with Jeremiah that Jeremiah will talk him right into becoming a JW because they are good at their spiel and that’s how they get their congregation in the first place. The weak and uninformed. Well, like I said, I will keep you updated as I hear from him what’s going on. He seems to have a looser tongue when he gets home after he’s downed a few drinks, but I guess that’s better than not talking at all.

  • Howdy Skywatcher, Here is part 2 of my defense to your part 1. I think that we are mincing words on many occasions–semantics and nothing more. I would debate the word “delusion” used to describe non-believers on this side of the trib. But delusion can mean error on their part so I have to let it slide. Mammon is money. I agree that we cannot serve two masters, but the scripture seems clear that mammon is money and , of course, money is the root of all evil. I can therefore extrapolate that and say that a person can’t serve GOD and satan at the same time–which one can’t. I agree that GOD does not send anyone to hell–it is a matter of choice based on one’s rejection Of JESUS. True, those who reject CHRIST and those who put off CHRIST to a later date will be catapulted into the tribulation. My point was that those who have heard the word and put it off, and those who said the sinner’s prayer to accept JESUS but were practicing sin at the time of the rapture will be sent into the tribulation as their wake up call and chastisement respectively. It is these people who (I think) will be the first great revival after the rapture. This is mere speculation on my part as I have not found scripture to confirm this. I am convinced, however, that all the names of all individuals of humanity are written in the LAMB’S Book of Life from the foundation of the world–not when they are born again (1 Peter 1:20. Rev 17:8, 13:8). Their rejection of JESUS causes their names to be blotted out of the Book of Life. We confirm our reservation in heaven when we accept JESUS’S work on the cross in our behalf. BTW I know that the scriptures in Rev. that I just quoted say “those whose names were not found in the Lamb’s Book of Life from the foundation of the world”. This implies that The Book of Life appears to have been written at the foundation of the world and all humanity is in it. We have only to confirm our reservation. Those who don’t have their names blotted out. As for the strong delusion (again), I think that GOD sends this at the mid point of the tribulation because the antichrist has to be revealed first. He is not revealed until the JEWS realize he is not who he claimed to be because of the Abomination of Desolation. Orthodox Jews may not care about the New Testament, but they know the old Testament (except for Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22) backwards and forwards. They will not be fooled. That is why JESUS says that “if it were possible” when referring to the elect. The world will not know the antichrist, nor will the Jews, during the first half of the trib (I think); he will be just a great leader. But it will be clear to the whole world when he declares himself to be god at the mid-trib. THAT is when I think all “hell” breaks loose (the 6th seal judgment, the trumpet judgments and the bowl judgments). I believe that Jerusalem will be dwelling in “peace and safety” and in “unwalled villages” during the first half of the trib because of the covenant that the antichrist confirms with many (Dan 9:27) the many being Israel and its immediate enemies…depending on whether the Psalm 83 war has occurred or not. I’m not sure about Gog and Magog yet as their names appear at the end of the millenial reign of CHRIST when satan is loosed one last time. You know, Sky watcher, this is turning out to be very exhausting. I think that from now on I’ll let my “yea” be “yea” and my “nay” be “nay”. Saves time and effort–and I know that you’ll agree. Well, I tried to address the points of contention and defend myself as best I could. I spend a huge amount of time in GOD’S WORD and am always discovering cool stuff–like the surprise that I have for you. BTW To prepare yourself for this big surprise, read WALKING AMONG US by David M. Jacobs, PHD. He has two companion books also; THE THREAT and SECRET LIFE, both I highly recommend. I am in the process of collating my scriptures and secular references for an article on the “nephilim in the tribulation” that I want to submit to Prophecy Watchers Magazine for publication. Take care, my friend and go easy on me. I am not stiff-necked about a lot of my beliefs (other than those I am convinced of), but a lot of what I find flies in the face of the teachings in traditional protestant churches. I create quite an upheaval with my friends who aren’t open to the fact that what they have had ingrained in them from their churches could be error. An example is that when I asked a friend about demons, her reply was that was not appropriate for today, that JESUS dealt with them 2000 years ago. HUH? Love ya BRO, BuffaloBilly

    • Skywatcher

      Warmest greetings, there Brother BB! Sorry for taking so long to get back to you! Again, let me remind you, Money is NOT the root of all evil! Strike 2! If I have to remind you again, I’ll have to come down there and take your fishing rod away from you! The “love of money is the root of all evil”, I Tim. 6: 10. Please forgive me, if I’ve answered this post twice!

      Now, on to more serious matters… You stated, “True, those who reject CHRIST and those who put off CHRIST to a later date will be catapulted into the tribulation. My point was that those who have heard the word and put it off, and those who said the sinner’s prayer to accept JESUS but were practicing sin at the time of the rapture will be sent into the tribulation as their wake up call and chastisement respectively. It is these people who (I think) will be the first great revival after the rapture.”

      WRONG! 🙂 I say that with grace and mercy, you understand…one fisher fella to another… I got your point the first time. Did you get mine? Can you back your position with Scripture? Where does it say this? It actually strongly points to those people you’ve mentioned in Rev. 3: 15, 16…”hot or cold”. This thing we call the Christian walk is to be taken extremely serious. To do such, leaves no room for dilly-dallying around in sin, satisfying the lusts of the flesh. We are either in His camp or we’re not. Jesus didn’t say, “If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments some of the time.” I’d rather err on the side of caution.

      There will be no wake-up calls after the Rapture. Those who have heard the Word and procrastinated will feel the pain the worst, because they knew the way and sought to serve self and Satan instead of Christ. There is a price to be paid for such mortal neglect. These will be the ones whom the strong delusion will have the most sway over.

      Bro, can you give me a reference that suggests or even goes so far as to state that there will be a “revival” after the Rapture, during the G.T. I haven’t seen such, but maybe I’ve missed it or forgotten. I’m getting longer in the tooth than I was 30 years ago!

      I’ve just spent over an hour researching something for this post and then deleted it! It was a question you raised in my mind; not that important.

      I’m going to be VERY easy on you, because you just came out of a weekend, and I see that you’re getting weary with long exegesis, as am I! 🙂 I concur with the rest of your post! How’s that, for short and sweet?

      God bless ya, Bro! I hope you’re chuckin’ lots of lures these days!

      • Howdy Skywatcher, Well, you caught me in a lapse. I know that it is the “love of money”, I just misquoted–and I’m not even a democrat! My bad…There is no scriptural reference for a revival after the rapture; it is just a personal belief based on my earlier position that backslidden “Christians” and those who “put off” accepting JESUS will go into the tribulation. I reckon that it is based more on human nature of having regrets for bad decisions. As for your reference to the church of the Laodiceans…I concur. Ever notice that the first six churches are of the city (Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, and Philadelphia–I know them by heart–and in order), but the last church, the current church age, is of men–which to me suggests a church run by man and not by GOD…That is our apostate church, and yes, I believe that most of them will go into the trib and possibly suffer the “strong delusion”. Rev. 3:20 does acknowledge that it is possible for some of these people to escape the trib by “opening the door to their hearts and for salvation”.
        You say, “Those who have heard the WORD and procrastinated will feel the pain worst, because they knew the way and sought to serve self and satan instead of CHRIST”. People don’t always know that they are serving satan just because they have not accepted JESUS. I never ever considered that I was serving satan before I got saved. I know better now because my spiritual eyes were opened and I understood what I was doing. Bob Dylan put it best in his song ” Gotta Serve Somebody” when he said “It may be the devil or it may be the LORD, but you gotta serve somebody”. I think that a lot of people don’t realize what they are doing by not having accepted JESUS. I guess that I am relying on human nature a lot. I am also of the persuasion that the strong delusion in 2 Thess may not come until well into the tribulation. If you can provide me with some scriptural evidence for when this happens I would be appreciative. I know that it has to be after the antichrist is revealed and I am thinking that his true identity is not revealed until the Abomination of Desolation. Up to that point he is just a great leader. SW, I tend to think “outside the box” and question a lot of what the churches have been teaching for so long. It seems that so much error has come from past theologians and from the pulpit that Feel that I am left up to myself to find these answers. I always look for scriptural evidence for my many positions on scripture and, as you have see, I also rely on human nature. You say that there will be no wake up calls after the rapture, but I have to differ because your position doesn’t explain where all the martyrs and tribulation saints come from. I gave you three references from Revelation about them and you said that all three groups were the same people. I can’t buy that. I see it as some who accept CHRIST before the mid-trib may die as a result of war, famine, disease, or natural disaster. These will not be beheaded for their testimony. Only those who must take the “mark” or die will be in that camp. Again, this is where my reading and understanding take me. We both know that it can’t be from the pulpit since no one preaches end times events and prophecy any more. I know that if I was a pastor, that is all I would preach upon. JESUS first came as a servant and in love, but this next coming is all about judgment and people need to know…but no one is telling them–sadly. Your Brother in CHRIST, BuffaloBilly

        • Skywatcher

          Brother BB, I don’t think I got around to addressing this post; I’m sorry!

          You asked, “Who will become the martyrs and tribulation saints?”

          These people are those who receive Christ as Savior and Lord, and refuse the Mark of the Beast as a result of the 144,000 evangelists. They will be the ones that the strong delusion doesn’t captivate to the point of capturing their minds or reasoning processes.

          The idea that the two witnesses are evangelists is not from God’s Word. They are God’s witnesses, (Elijah and Moses) as clearly defined in Rev. 11: 6. These are His workmen who go forth, pronouncing judgment upon the earth; evangelizing is the job of the 144,000.

          You said, ” “Weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth” are symptoms of extreme anguish, not necessarily being in hell or the lake of fire.”

          When Christ spoke those words, He was speaking in context of Hell, although you are right…these symptoms are not strictly reserved for that time. I remember driving one day when I had a kidney stone attack! I was gritting and grinding my teeth so badly from the pain. Ultimately, I had to pull off to the side of the road and leave my breakfast behind. The pain Christ was referring to will be magnified numerous times beyond human comprehension, and after my experience, I wouldn’t trade places with the unredeemed for two seconds!

          You said, “It seems that so much error has come from past theologians and from the pulpit that Feel that I am left up to myself to find these answers.”

          I would have to agree with you, but it is the “past theologians” of the recent past! If you go back and read the sermons of Charles Haddon Spurgeon, Charles Finney, D. L. Moody, Billy Sunday, et al, you would see that they were right on target! They wouldn’t stand for or tolerate a quarter of what is being preached by theologians of the past 100 years! They’ve moved the “ancient landmarks” while they were swimming with the tide of liberalism and secularism, to please the masses. We’ll see how well that serves them, Mt. 7: 21-23.

          In closing, this weary old man is going to deal with one more statement you made. ” I am also of the persuasion that the strong delusion in 2 Thess may not come until well into the tribulation. If you can provide me with some scriptural evidence for when this happens I would be appreciative. I know that it has to be after the antichrist is revealed…”

          From Thess. 2: 7, we understand the H.S. who resides within the Body of Believers, is going to be removed with the Saints of God. He will minister upon the earth on an individual basis just as He did in the O.T. Therefore, in His “absence” of His current present-day ministry capacity, it appears that the “strong delusion” which follow only 4 verses later, proves it will start immediately with those who had heard the gospel, but for whatever reason procrastinated or totally rejected Christ altogether.

          Oh one more! You said, ” I see it as some who accept CHRIST before the mid-trib may die as a result of war, famine, disease, or natural disaster.” You may be right! 🙂 I’m outa here before it turns into a sermon!

          Your brother in Christ, on the range for Jesus! SW

          • Howdy Skywatcher, But I LIKE the sermons… YEA! BuffaloBilly

    • Skywatcher

      Bro, I was just looking back over your comment to Edwitness, ” In eternity, there is no time;ergo, we live forever! Not scriptural (I think) but an interesting concept of death nevertheless. Of course, I could be wrong about everything…”

      I believe you were tired when you typed that post. You’re NOT “wrong about everything”! You’re as sure as chicken don’t have teeth, when it comes to being correct…most times.

      However, I must correct you on one thing you said in your post: “In eternity, there is no time…”

      We’ve been taught that, but is that really what God’s Word says? Take a peek at Rev. 22: 2,

      In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit EVERY MONTH…”

      Love ya, Bro! I’m just havin’ a little fun with ya!

      • Howdy Skywatcher, I think that the apostle John meant an eternity of months. You know, he just might have given an earthly measurement to how often the fruits were generated because that was his only frame of reference…you know, like the locusts out of the pit are really tanks????? I am so weary… BB PS Please see the humor in this reply. Thanks

        • Skywatcher

          Dear BB, I see the humor! Relax my brother! You need a good fishin’ trip to get you away from the ‘puter! I, too, am getting weary; too much of a good thing is not all that good. You, I, and others take much time and effort to make our posts; we pour ourselves into them, relying upon the Holy Spirit. In effect, we’ve been preparing sermons and mini-sermons in many of our posts, and that becomes physically, emotionally, and spiritually draining. On top of that, we have personal lives and issues to attend to.

          Why do we do this? Because:
          1. We love God and His Word, and desire others to “rightly divide it”.
          2. We love His family
          3. We love others, desiring they should know the love, peace, joy, forgiveness, freedom, and acceptance of Almighty God.
          4. We are compelled and driven to do so, because of our passion for the integrity of God’s Word and for lost souls.

          There are many things that we will never understand about various facets of prophecy, as we stand on these sin-stained shores looking forward. Therefore, I don’t get too bogged down about anything that is going to happen after the Rapture, except for what directly affects and involves us as the Church, the Body of Christ. It’s good for us to have a working knowledge pertaining to the G.T., the Millennial Reign of Christ, the New Jerusalem, etc. However, my primary objective is to reach out and to help others in their faith walk with Jesus, here and now, where the “rubber meets the road”!

          There have been times when I’ve thought that our tight-knit merry little band of disciples are a lot like the early Church fathers, who held councils to debate these issues that we debate and discuss today. We are hundreds of years removed from them, but having the same discussions!

          Anything apart from what God’s Word definitely has put in front of our faces is pure speculation at best, and not worthy of division or hurt feelings.

          You have done extremely well in your calling to respond to posts! You are extremely diplomatic, loving, kind, and gracious, and it has shone forth in your posts like none other! You’ve been a great example to me! I’m in absolute delight when I read your posts or am in league with you. Take a rest! You deserve it! You can spell me off in a little while also; fishing season officially starts here on April 1, and I’ll be enjoying the blessed outpouring of God’s handiwork upon Terra Firma, far away from this computer too! I have to wean myself off of here, as I have lawns and gardens that need to be maintained. I see just how well they do without me! It’s not pretty!

          There are others who can quite capably fill the gap in our absence. I’ve only been on here a few months, and I’m sure there was somebody before me who answered the questions and concerns!

          God was good enough to share His Sabbath with us; it’s time you took a little one, I believe, or you’re going to burn out. I’ve not yet seen a burned down candle stubby that put out much light! Rest up, Bro., and enjoy your spare time with a little pleasure; we don’t have much of that precious quality time left to enjoy. This spring-fall could be the end of it.

          God richly and abundantly bless you, with all good things from above!

        • Skywatcher

          BB, the world’s going to Hell in a handbasket! This is not the time to be practicing what you preached…is it?! 🙂 I hear ya, with that sweet little “YEA”! Enjoy your rest Bro.!

  • Howdy Ed, I had addressed your most recent post and when I finished I tried ot post it and lost my internet connection again. I am so tired of this. Well, the reply was lost and I am just not up to doing it again–at least not tonight. Sorry my Brother, BB

  • Howdy Ed, I found the reply and posted it. I HATE computers. BB

  • C E Johnson 81

    Hello! A newbie from the UK here! I have been following this site for some time and have found it quite interesting and thought provoking. I have been born again since I was 18 years old. I’m dropping a comment in regards to the Heidi Baker video, and tbh I found it rather disturbing! I felt compelled to share this article on Facebook yesterday, after reading this article and seeing the video a few weeks ago, and I needed to warn a Christian friend after she had shared an event on my Facebook. It appears that dear Heidi Baker is going to be a guest speaker over here in the UK at this event my friend is interested in. I gave her a heads up, and referred to Galatians 5? The fruits of the Spirit? I also made it clear I was not causing trouble or bad mouthing the False prophet, however her response was typical, she had people she knew who were personally mentored by Heidi so therefore she couldn’t possibly comment. Ok, fair enough, however she then went on to say that they were sold out on Jesus, and that prophets always get lots of flack! I felt my heart sink at these words. These deceived people need lots of prayer! Please also pray for me.
    Thank you NTEB for posting these articles, they are needed and people do need to be warned! And please forgive me for writing this long comment, as I am fairly new at commenting on these websites. God bless!

    • Skywatcher

      Welcome, C E Johnson 81! It’s always nice to meet another member of the truly Royal Family! I reside in Canada, as most on here already know. Are you a brother or a sister in Christ? I ask, so I know how to address you in the future!

      So sorry to hear that your friend is caught up in that horrible Heidi Baker mess. 🙁 All we can do is pray that the real Holy Spirit will immediately open her eyes while she is there, and make her feel so uncomfortable that she will have to leave early! I hope your friend knows enough of God’s Word to be able to recognize those things that are not of it!

      That was an excellent post, and no forgiveness is needed for writing such a “long comment”! Yours is mighty short compared to my comments sometimes! You will be in my prayers also! In the meantime, may our Lord Jesus Christ pour Himself out upon you in a mighty powerful way today, like you’ve NEVER known before! May you experience a strong and acute sense of His blessed Presence and Peace like never before!

  • I’ve heard it takes all kinds.. but this is ridiculous.. well, it’s far worse than that of course.. good grief! How could anybody fall for it.. mindless is right..

  • It’s quite sad what is happening among people who call themselves “Christian.” Yesterday I read an article on the Seven Mountains mandate that smeared Dr. Bill Bright and Vonnette Bright as being the leaders who started a cult. This is the same Bill Bright that through the JESUS Film has brought the message of Christ to 5.5 Billion people in over 250 countries. This is the same Vonnette Bright who, with Ronald Reagan, established the National Day of Prayer. And these charges – like this of Heidi and Roland Baker – are ridiculous.

    As it happens I know Heidi Baker. Her CPA is also my CPA and I also happen to know a lot about their personal finances. Jesus was asked by the disciples in Luke 9:50 about those “not of us” who were performing miracles in Jesus name. JESUS said, “Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us[a] is on our side.”[b]

    Now, the word “forbid” is the Greek word kolyo… to prevent – by word or act, forbid, hinder, or not suffer.

    How can you go against the direction of Jesus?

    Jesus said that the world will know we are His BY OUR LOVE FOR ONE ANOTHER. This is not love. This is condemnation and even hatred.

    the Bakers have made themselves responsible for over 100,000 Mogadishu children to be fed, clothed and cared for EVERY DAY. I know for a fact they have nearly gone bankrupt multiple times trying to take care of the medical and basic living needs of ANY child or family comes to their compound. There are books and documentaries available to document all this BY GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS who now embrace doing something they, the government, can not do.

    And yes – there are multiple documented healings just as Jesus said.

    John 14:12-14(NKJV)
    12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask[a] anything in My name, I will do it.

    This is not witchcraft but the power of God. And it was Paul who said, And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony[a] of God. 2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. 4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human[b] wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. (1Cor2)

    You are not in authority over Heidi Baker. As Jesus said, DO NOT STOP THEM. She has brought the message of Christ to well over 50 Million people in 15 countries, many who are now engaged in full time ministry and evangelism.

  • Brett

    Heidi and Rolland Baker are two of the most extraordinary followers of Jesus Christ I have ever met. I have seen her speak 3 times. They sacrificed all to bring the gospel to Mozambique and have changed the nation. Prosperity? When they were first in Mexico, they lived in the slums with the poor….even with their son. They went to Asia, with $20. They later heard of the war torn hell on earth in Mozambique and went there, to preach the gospel and save souls. They care for over 10,000 orphans and feed them, care for them, build schools and have saved countless lives. Many of the children, they rescued out of the dumps, where they were left to die. They have gone to remote villages all throughout the region and brought the gospel to radical muslims and converted them, by loving them and demonstrating Jesus’ love. Several times, they were stoned and beaten. Some of their pastors were killed…one of them, the muslims cut off his hands, feet and then head, in front of his family. They have done all Christ called us to do.
    She cast devils on people? LOL. You are all a brood of vipers here…ALL of you casting aspersions on her here, would have called Jesus satan, after he preached “you must eat of my flesh and drink of my blood”. That sounds satanic, right?Admit it. But you won’t. Jesus said and did radical things that you would also call things of satan. Watch the movie about her life ‘compelled by love’.

  • Ellen H

    Matthew 7:21-23

    21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

    The Bible is pretty clear that not everyone who does things in Christ’s name will still be welcomed in. These folks can do all kinds of wonderful things to “store up their treasure in heaven” and still miss the boat. If they are false in their heart, (which ONLY Christ knows), then they aren’t going to get in on their good works. It’s like other denominations who believe THEIR good works will earn them a spot in heaven yet deny Christ.

  • Brett

    Ellen – exactly. But that is not Heidi Baker. She loves Christ and her entire life was serving God since she was 17.
    She was from Laguna Beach, living in luxory and she hated it, because of so many lost and broken in the world.
    So she married Rolland and they went to Asia with $20 and started 3 churches. They were persecuted and withstood all
    attacks. They later came back to the USA and heard about Mozambique, which was war torn and the most impovershed place on earth..over the years, they have taken in over 10,000 orphans in the name of Jesus and started schools for them.
    The Bakers do not live in luxory! I have 3 good freinds who have went on: 3 month and a 3 yr mission, to serve with them.
    They all say Heidi is a modern day Mother Theresa, but actually has done more than Theresa. If you make it to heaven, you will know her and she will probbaly be on the same street as Paul and Peter. She has started 7,000 churches and she speaks 7 languages. She and Rolland brought the gospel to most all of Mmozambique….she and Rolland have been persecuted and they never stop going forward.
    Whats interesting, all the aspersions everyone is casting on her, show that these people are unbelieving believers and go to dead churches where the Holy Spirit is not part of. Read your bibles, the full gospel is for today! Dead churches are the BEST tool for satan…he loves unbelieving believers who accept a gospel without power and love and actually teaching Christ. 2 verses for you: Romans 8:7 the carnal mind is enmity toward God….most all here have not been living in the spirit realm and new mind….and live from a carnal mind. So they are hostile towards God! And the verse that says, without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. All the ones casting aspersions probably do not speak in tongues, have not had an encounter with the holy spirt and not laid hands on anyone…going forth and doing what Jesus said. Ii too, went to a dead church and someone took me to a real church and I received the holy spirit…was speaking in tongues right then, I have prayed for several on the street..gotten words of knowledge “deviated septum” when I asked Ggod for a word.
    And went and prayed for a woman that had that. She said she felt something move in her nasal cavity…she then introduced me to her daughter. She had the same condition. Then prayed for both. That was at church at 10 AM. Later, at the night service, the girl saw me and was running up the aisle screaming and crying God healed me God healed me God healed me!
    We hugged and both cried. I asked her what happened and she said “after you prayed, my nasal passage began to open and I can breathe”. I asked what was it like before? She said it was closed snce birth!!! So, this taught me to ask God for words of knowledge and ask to be used! I have gotten several other words over the last few yrs. STOP being in the carnal mind, where you try to make it to submit to the spiritual mind!! Iit is impossible. Go read Romans 8. I will pray for all the unbelieving believers here. I will ask for the holy spirit to visit you…oh, how do we know cessation is false?
    When Christ left, he said “I must go, so the Holy Spirit will be sent…will lead you into all truth and grrater things you will do, becasue I go to the Father…so when you pray, pray as if you are seated with Christ and you / we have ALL authority.

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  • Adrian

    Discernment of spirits is a supernatural manifestation as the Spirit wills, a bit different to the intellectual exercise of comparing events to our nicely boxed theology. Tell me then, since you all seem adept at identify the false prophets, whom are the true prophets according to your discernment?

  • Adrian

    So all repetition is vain then? “And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words.”(Mark 14:39) Jesus prayed these same words long enough that the disciplines fell asleep again.

  • Adrian

    Let’s not contradict Scripture, or is it the way we want to enforce and apply it at least…”decently and in order”. Does that exclude then being accussed by many as being drunk while experiencing a supernatural encounter? “For these are not drunken, as ye suppose,” Acts 2:15a. A supernatural manifestation’s source in itself is not determined by the manifestation. Fruit takes time to ripen, seeds are difficult to judge unless supernaturally revealed also. It often takes a more powerful Kingdom to force the lesser kingdom to reveal itself, hence the boy’s manifestation. If you were not so intent on condemning Heidi you would have noticed that she eventually points towards the boy to get the attention of other leaders of the meeting. It would appear he was taken aside to receive further attention away from the cameras. Have you not ever had demons manifest as you were ministering? You don’t rehearse these things, but when they do occur you have to make a decision at that moment.

  • Adrian,
    They are called false prophets because what they teach is not Biblical. Not because of a false foretelling, even though they attempt that at times as well.

    Foretellers of future events, prophets, would be Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Zachariah, and the rest of the Old Testament prophets set apart by God. New Testament believers are led by the Holy Spirit. Not some man. Rom.8:14 “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God”.
    Because of this the office of prophet is no longer necessary.

    Acts 2:17 “And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:” is spoken to Israel. Vs.s 14-22. This means it is reserved for the tribulation period. Not applicable to the church age saints.

  • Adrian

    Hi edwitnessitness
    If we are to be Biblical, the Bible does a good job of interpreting itself. You refer to Acts 2:17 regarding “in the last days” and relegating the supernatural experience of the church to the tribulation period, however the writer of Hebrews claims those last days are now also, “Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son” (1:2).
    Regarding your comments about Acts 2, when I read it I find that there is quite a bit happening, and the whole event needs to be considered in context. Peter quotes that Scripture to give context to what has just happened and an opportunity for those Jews present to respond. This is clearly shown in verse 38 which you conveniently chose to ignore. Do you honestly think that Peter was giving a message about the Tribulation, or just maybe, do you think he might be explaining the completely incredible beginnings of an outpouring of the Holy Spirit that had just occurred upon the “flesh” in the room whom God had gathered together to seek Him? At the moment of this speech, Peter calls for those listening to also receive this same “gift of the Holy Ghost, for the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call” (Acts 2:38b-39). Peter was not introducing a new eschatology, but giving previous prophecy fulfilment in the very thing that had just happened. Are you called by the LORD, then this same outpouring is for you edwitnessitness and your children if you have any.
    Next you claim that prophets are no longer necessary. The counterfeit/false only exists when there is something legitimate to compare it to. Paul had this problem with false apostles in his day. The Bible firmly disagrees with your opinion. “And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:”(Ephesians 4:11-13). The knowledge being referred to there is first-hand experiential knowing.The whole church is yet to measure up to the fullness of the stature of Christ (The Anointed One). Secondly, you do not build on something (the foundation of the apostles and prophets) and then try and remove it before completion of the building.
    Also, to claim that the outpouring of the Spirit is not for the church age is to ignore the many counts of supernatural ministry done by the apostles and others in the time from Pentecost onwards. I am sure you do not want me to recount these many Scriptures. Or am I incorrectly assuming that you believe the church age was not the time period covered by the epistles? And even if you did think somehow that the church age began sometime after the writing of Scripture, then there are many historical reports of prophets etc., signs and wonders throughout the centuries up until now, the very same things that happened in the New Testament.
    You also claim that believers are no longer led by man. Tell me, do you have teachers in your church. Are you taught to respect and follow the instruction of church elders? Are not these men also? Hebrews 13:17, “Obey your leaders and submit to them”, how does one lead except they have followers?
    You claim, “They are called false prophets because what they teach is not Biblical. Not because of a false foretelling, even though they attempt that at times as well.” As I have described above, there seem to be several contradictions with Scripture in your teaching.


  • Adrian,
    To what you wrote before what I will post and answer I will simply say I disagree with your interpretation. Here is why.

    To this; “Next you claim that prophets are no longer necessary. The counterfeit/false only exists when there is something legitimate to compare it to. Paul had this problem with false apostles in his day. The Bible firmly disagrees with your opinion. “And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:”(Ephesians 4:11-13). The knowledge being referred to there is first-hand experiential knowing.The whole church is yet to measure up to the fullness of the stature of Christ (The Anointed One). Secondly, you do not build on something (the foundation of the apostles and prophets) and then try and remove it before completion of the building” …….

    I will reply that the foundation, Christ, prophets and apostles, has been laid for the rest of the church to build upon (evangelists, pastors, teachers). As Paul said in 1Cor.3:9-13;

    “For we are labourers together with God: ye (the church) are God’s husbandry, ye (the church) are God’s building. (We are not the foundation.)

    According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation (as an apostle Paul is part of the foundation), and another buildeth thereon (that’s us). But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

    FOR OTHER FOUNDATION CAN NO MAN LAY THAN THAT IS LAID, which is Jesus Christ. (Christ is the foundation in that He is the cornerstone.Eph.2:20).

    Now if any man build upon this foundation (Christ, prophets and apostles) gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

    Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is”.

    So you see Adrian that the foundation is not the church. It is Christ, prophets and apostles. The passage in Eph. 4 that you refer to is understood in this context. Any “experiential knowledge” must always subordinate itself to sound biblical exogesis. 🙂

  • Adrian

    Your arguments are very convincing edwitnessitness when isolated from the rest of Scripture, however proper exegesis does not isolate verses as is done when one is just proof-texting. If the verses you quoted were the only verses of the Bible then I would confine myself to addressing the points you raise. And if God had not represented Himself and the desire of His heart more fully elsewhere then you would surely be better placed to claim the things you do.
    Maybe you might take advice as to the relevancy of prophets from the mouth of a prophet, even one you would recognise, “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.”, (Amos 3,7). If you believe God is still building His church, then He is still at work in this world. He will not deny Himself for He is not a man that He should lie. As per the prophet Amos, God will tell His servant’s the prophets what He is about to do, and what He is still doing. The prophets of the LORD will continue the joyful task of perfecting of the saints until they are perfected and working in ministry as a suitable bride for our perfect Saviour. But not only the prophets, but the apostles, evangelists, pastors and teachers. God has put variety in the body so that as a complete whole we are the Body of Christ, representing Him in a most perfect way. We cannot do it on our own, or choose to reject those whom God has accepted. We do not have the right to exclude anyone because we do not understand or appreciate their function. 1 Corinthians 12 specifically addresses this issue that you are struggling with. Please read the whole chapter and then the wider letter as a whole without trying to prove any point to yourself. This whole epistle is a beautiful representation of what we as the body, in communion with our blessed Saviour, Father and Holy Spirit, are enabled to be in this world.
    Jesus’ expectation of us after His ascension was that it would be better than if He were to stay. Jesus is manifesting Himself in us by the Holy Spirit. Jesus/God will never change His nature. Just as God has revealed Himself throughout the Bible by His many Names, so indeed Christ too. When we minister in His Name, we are entering into a marvelous mystery with all those aspects of His nature. Jesus, we understand is the Apostle of our faith, but he also is the Good Shepherd, or Pastor, He is Rabbi, or Teacher, He is the one who goes and seeks out the stray one, the Evangelist, and He is the Prophet who was to come. So you see the often called five-fold ministry gifts to the church are representing the Name(s) of Jesus. And yes, we pray in the Name of Jesus, because we as a body are being built to completely represent Him in the earth right now, from glory to glory. If one part is rejected or missing then it is Christ Himself whom we are actually rejecting and missing, not the faithful men, women and children who selflessly lay down their lives to serve Him according to His will.


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