The Strange, Unfulfilled Doomsday Prophecy Of Acts Chapter 2

It's the day of Pentecost, and it's the very first baby steps of the Church. Peter is preaching, the Holy Spirit is falling like flames of fire, and thousands are getting saved. The miracle of tongues - the ability to speak a foreign language you never learned - is in evidence, and the shocked people watching begin to mock and say that they're drunk. Peter rebukes them, and then says something startling. He says not only are these men not drunk, but that the Tribulation is about to start and Jesus is getting ready to come back and fight the battle of Armageddon. What???
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It’s the day of Pentecost, and it’s the very first baby steps of the Church. Jesus was standing up and getting ready to come back. So what happened?

“For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:” Acts 2:15-17 (KJV)

As Christians, when we read the New Testament, we have a tendency to take everything from Matthew 1 to Revelation 22 and lump it all together with the Church. For many of us, this is how we were taught to read the Bible. But this is not how the Bible was written. All of the New Testament was not written about the Church living in the age of Grace. In fact, there are 3 different groups of people that God can be addressing at any given time.

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One of the greatest examples of this is found in Acts 2, where the apostle Peter is talking about something very strange. We understand that Acts 2 is the start of the Christian Church, that’s true, but the story that it tells is of the Church in transition and not one in completion. In Acts 2, Peter is in charge, but just a few chapters later he will be replaced by the Apostle Paul, and by Acts 15 he is gone never to be heard from again. When Peter preaches the need to “repent and be baptized” in Acts 2:39, this gospel is not at all like the gospel Paul would preach in Ephesians 2:8,9 of salvation by grace though faith, with no works attached to it at all. The dispensation of faith plus works ends with Peter and the age of Grace begins with Paul.

But before it happens, Peter opens his mouth and utters a prophecy that remains unfulfilled to this day.

It’s the day of Pentecost, and it’s the very first baby steps of the Church. Peter is preaching, the Holy Spirit is falling like flames of fire, and thousands are getting saved. The miracle of tongues – the ability to speak a foreign language you never learned – is in evidence, and the shocked people watching begin to mock and say that they’re drunk. Peter rebukes them, and then says something startling. He says not only are these men not drunk, but that the Tribulation is about to start and Jesus is getting ready to come back and fight the battle of Armageddon. What??? Yep. We know this is true because he opens his mouth and quotes from the Prophet Joel, who wrote almost exclusively on the subject of the Tribulation and Armageddon. We quoted the first part of it at the start of this article, here is the rest of it:

“And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Acts 2:18-21 (KJV)

To me, that’s truly amazing. Peter is telling the crowds that had gathered that what the Prophet Joel had prophesied about the Battle of Armageddon and the Second Coming of Jesus was coming true right then and there. If that had continued to happen, there would have been no Church Age, no Apostle Paul, no gentiles being saved. None of it. Let that thought sink in for a moment. So if Peter was saying that Joel’s prophecy was coming true, what stopped it?  It stopped in Acts chapter 7.

“When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.” Acts 7:54 (KJV)

It all came to a crashing halt when the Jews rejected the preaching of Stephen. When the Holy Spirit spoke through Stephen, God was giving His People one more chance to get it right. They rejected God the Father in the Old Testament, and they resulted in 400 years of silence from Malachi to Matthew. They rejected Jesus Christ in the New Testament, and that resulted in the cross and the empty tomb. Now here in Acts 7, God gives them one, last chance to accept the witness of the Holy Spirit through Stephen.

Stephen preaches his heart out, and lets it fly with both barrels. This is some of the best preaching found anywhere in the Bible. At the end of it, in accordance with Peter declaring Joel’s prophecy to be coming true in Acts 2, we see Jesus STANDING UP and ready to return to the Earth. This is end, here He comes…..

“But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Acts 7:55,56 (KJV)

…but it was not to be. Why? The Jews did not receive Stephen’s preaching, in fact, the Bible records that they beat him to death with rocks. What was the result? Stephen died, the window in Heaven closed, and Jesus sat back down. Joel’s prophecy would be postponed for 2,000 more years. In Acts 8, the first gentile gets saved with the Ethiopian eunuch and Philip, and in Acts 9, Saul gets knocked off his horse and get commissioned by Jesus Himself to be the leader of what the Church would fully transition into. A church made of up both Jews and Gentiles, in one body. Peter never saw it coming, and Paul called it a “mystery”.

“Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:” Colossians 1:25-27 (KJV)

The Church Age will end with the Rapture, and that event will usher in the time of Jacob’s Trouble, what Jesus calls the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24. It will be in this time period that Joel’s prophecy will finally be fulfilled. Joel’s prophecy is for the Jews and about Israel, it is the final fire of refinement that God must put His People through. But it has nothing to do with the Church. The Church is “Plan B”, it was always “Plan B”. God was fully ready, as Peter preached, to pull the plug without ever creating a gentile Church. Peter was 100% right when he declared Joel’s prophecy to be coming true, but the rejection of Stephen’s preaching by the Jews stopped that timeclock.

We are in the closing minutes of the Church Age, get something done for Jesus while there is still time left.

NTEB is run by end times author and editor-in-chief Geoffrey Grider. Geoffrey runs a successful web design company, and is a full-time minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. In addition to running NOW THE END BEGINS, he has a dynamic street preaching outreach and tract ministry team in Saint Augustine, FL.
  • Amen Geoffrey 😀

    PRAISE JESUS CHRIST TODAY and EVERYDAY, HE is our KING / LORD / MESSIAH / SAVIOR!!

    JESUS CHRIST LOVES YE ALL FOREVERMORE!!

    Am Yisrael Chai FOREVERMORE!!

    Love Always and Shalom,

    Kristi

    • Nenad

      Signs of the end times,people open your eyes.

      • Dan

        Freaky video for sure but America does not fit the description of Babylon in Revelation. Revelation 17: 9- 10 ( no matter what way you interpret the passage) it does not fit America. Its funny as important as it is this passage was not even mentioned in the video.

        The narrator should have no problem getting work with that creepy voice though.

        • MRH

          Dan: That weird video is part of an ad to sell survival kits. The authors name and voice is fake. There is no Nathan Shepard, and I think text to speech narration. I say such, because I’ve used such in my video creations before. They have different voices available, and some sound very real.

          As for Babylon, it’s a future prophecy, but has past and present elements in it. Babylon I believe represents the coming final global beast kingdom (NWO). And if you read things in that light, it should be quite clear (note my [inserts]) 😉

          Rev 14:8 KJV – And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city [global kingdom], because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication [global satanic influence].

          Rev 16:19 KJV – And the great city was divided into three parts [government, economy, religion], and the cities of the nations fell [corrupted]: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

          Rev 17:5 KJV – And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH [satanic implications].

          Rev 18:2 KJV – And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird [demonic invasion].

          P.S. If you open you eyes, the evidence of all above is present and growing. The three spoke end time demonic globalization system is forming, and the pyramid is it’s main emblem or idol. The eye represents Satan watching over the world. Talk about creepy?

          • allen

            I believe you are right, a world system it will be….it’s funny because scholars debate whether the beast is islam or catholic church – it’s both….the crescent moon symbols are from babylon and both of these systems have those

  • jesusislord

    Wow, that is just a weird interpretation of scripture. Remember folks, if you are ultra-dispensational then you need Scofield and Larkin to interpret the Bible for you.

    • That surely is a strange interpretation. I know that Peter was given the “keys of the kingdom of heaven” Matt. 16:19 and had the privilege of preaching the first message of the gospel to the Jews on day of Pentecost along with the other apostles. And yes the gospel was preached to the Jews first and then to the Greek , or gentile thankfully, ROM.1:16 ! But to say baptism was not preached and practiced after the stoning of Stephen is just not true. The apostle Paul himself was told to arise and be baptized Acts 22:16, 9:18 after his conversion on the road to Damascus. The apostle Paul also himself taught and practiced baptism 1Cor. 1:14-17, that when we are baptized we are baptized into Christ, Gal. 3:26,Col.2:12 , from which all spiritual blessing come, Eph. 1:3.

      • carrierwave

        There is nothing wrong with baptism until you make it a prerequisite and co-redemptiive agent with FAITH to save a soul for Heaven. “Water” does not save–Jesus Blood cleanse us from ALL SIN. Neither does the Lord hand a hydrant wrench and tells his apostle Paul to shut off the “water” I am saving people differently after today. The Gospel message does not include baptism, because it is not part of the Gospel. Paul said, “The Lord sent me NOT to baptize, but to PREACH THE GOSPEL. 1Cor. 1:17

        Believers should be baptized, not to be saved, but because they HAVE BEEN SAVED.

        • Steve

          We either believe the bible or we don’t.
          1 Peter 3:21 very clearly states “Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you”. WE know this is water baptism because of the rest of the context. If the bible says it, it must be true. The issue is how people understand how baptism saves.

          There is absolutely no reason for Paul to teach salvation/forgiveness of sin any other way than how he receive it himself. When you read about his conversion you will notice a few things.
          1. Jesus told him to go into the city and wait for Ananias to tell him what was required of him.
          2. He prayed and fasted for 3 days yet he was still in his sin.
          3. Ananias told him to arise and get baptized to wash away his sin calling on the name of the Lord.
          This fits perfect with the Acts 2 and the quote from Joel. Its interesting that there could have been more said in the conversation between Saul and Ananias but this is what God wanted to pass on to us.

          Everyone should know that it is not the water or the act that saves you but the blood of Christ by the grace of God only. However, it is through water baptism that God chose to impart His grace on the repentant sinner. Why? Because of what it represents.

          1. It represents a death,burial and resurrection
          2. there are many time that Scripture talks about what it means to be in Christ but only two that talk about how one gets into Christ and they both are at baptism.

          Romans 6:3-7 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

          Galatians 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

          We must be place into Christ by our death with Him. Read Romans chapter 7 to understand that this spiritual death allows us to become the bride of Christ. Until we die this spiritual death we are believers out of Christ verse believers in Christ.

          With this understanding 1 Peter 3:21 makes sense.. here is the rest of 1 Peter 3:21 not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.

          You see, it is by the grace of God that He provide a way for us to restore our relationship with Him. He himself came in the form of Jesus Christ and died for us. All we have to do is die with Him spiritually and we can have a clear sinless conscience toward Him. Not because of a work that we have done but an act of love and obedience to our Savior.

          Too many people lump water baptism into works of the Law of which Paul talks against. Baptism was never a work of the Law and is simply an act of obeying our God.

          • Steve

            The calling upon the name of the Lord is simply calling on Him to do what He promised to do. what did He promise to do? Remove your sin and reestablish your relationship with God. Jesus told Paul to get baptized to remove his sin via Ananias. Ananias told him to do just that calling on God to do what He promise through Jesus Christ.

            Acts two is the very same thing. Peter quoted Joel and once those present where pricked in the hear they wanted to know how they call on the Lord. Peter told them to repent and be baptized. In the old Testament they would build an alter and call on the Lord. Blood is spilt at an alter, something dies. The cross was the alter that Christ died on and spilt his blood. We die at our baptism and come into contact with the blood of Christ there..

          • MRH

            Too many people lump water baptism into works of the Law of which Paul talks against. Baptism was never a work of the Law and is simply an act of obeying our God.

            @ Steve: Total nonsense! Water baptism was of the law period. Therefore it was a work of the law. Water saves no one, faith does. We are saved by obeying the gospel, not by any other material means 😀

            P.S. You also misinterpret Paul’s message concerning baptism. It is much figurative, not literal language he uses here. Basically you lack spiritual understanding, as do many folk 😉

          • Steve

            Please enlighten me MRH, I am always looking for the truth, the truth that is not nonsense.
            Here are a few questions you may be able to help me clear up.

            1.What is the Law that Paul is talking about? Please show me how water baptism is part of that Law.

            2.When did the Law end?

            3.Was Peter wrong when he told people to repent and be baptized for the remission of sin? Was he telling them to obey the Law to receive remission? If so why and when did it change?

            4.Was Jesus wrong when He included baptism in the making of disciples?

            5. Please tell us based on the context of 1 Peter what he is saying.

            6. Why would Paul mean a different baptism than what he underwent?

            These are just a few very simple questions that any person such as yourself who does not lack spiritual understanding should be able to illustrate using scripture. I eagerly await your reply.

            Clearly you did not read my entire post

        • Bro. Nick Nicholas

          carrierwave – It is my Biblical understanding that there are two baptisms

          ~ 1) The “baptism” by “the Holy Ghost” – given to each person that is truly “born again” into “the church”
          ~ which happens upon accepting the “free gift” of “Salvation” in “our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ”:
          “But what saith it?
          The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart:
          that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
          That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
          and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead,
          thou shalt be saved.
          For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;
          and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
          For the scripture saith,
          Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.”
          (Romans 10:8-11, KJB)

          “I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
          With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
          Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
          One Lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM,
          One God and Father of all,
          who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

          – 2) Water baptism – which most certainly should be done in obedience to that which is written in “the word of the LORD” – and is a physical acknowledgment of what has already occurred spiritually
          – but which is not essential for salvation, for it is a ‘work’ of obedience because we are truly “converted”:
          “And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water:
          and the eunuch said, See, here is water;
          what doth hinder me to be BAPTIZED?
          And Philip said,
          If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.
          And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
          (Acts 8:36-37, KJB)

          ~ CAPITALization and emphasis of “the word of the LORD” is mine – Bro. Nick

          • Bro. Nick Nicholas

            “I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
            With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
            Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
            One Lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM,
            One God and Father of all,
            who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
            (Ephesians 4:1-6, KJB)

            Please excuse my omission of the Biblical reference – Bro. Nick

  • Dan Quixoté

    I’m on my 7th time through the Word, and that’s a new take on those events to my brain. But it’s plausible; I don’t have any prooftexts against, only precedents that bolster your assertions in this posts, aside from my agnosticism regarding dispensationalism.

    You’ve got a full-contact theology there, sir. Rough-and-tumble.

    • Amen, brother 🙂 “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)

      • Bro. Nick Nicholas

        Geoffrey Grider – Brother, Again I thank you for your very thought provoking understanding of “the word of the LORD”.

        I had always been taught that when: ~ “and Jesus standing on the right hand of God” – it was in respect for Steven as the first Biblically recorded Martyr
        ~ however if what you wrote is actually Biblically “the truth”
        – what a difference!

        Your Biblical understandings also sure do ‘bring to life’ the comment made by Bro. Jacob Prasch, that the closer we get to ‘the Rapture’
        – it is like looking under the opening below a curtain, the closer you get to ‘the curtain’ (‘the Rapture’) – the more that you can see “the truth” of “the mystery” that is behind the curtain

        ~ As “our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ” personally taught:
        “And he said unto them,
        Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God:
        but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
        That seeing they may see, and not perceive;
        and hearing they may hear, and not understand;
        lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.”
        (Mark 4:11-12, KJB)

        My personal understanding is that the primary problem is that too many ‘Biblical Prophecy Scholars, authors and teachers’ have written books and given messages about their understanding(s) of what is Prophetically happening – and is going to happen – in what order
        – and their personal “pride” and ‘arrogance’ will not allow them to change their stated position(s)
        – and as they go, so go their followers

        HOWEVER the Apostle Paul warned:
        “For while one saith, I am of Paul;
        and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
        Who then is Paul,
        and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
        I have planted, Apollos watered;
        but God gave the increase.
        So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth;
        but God that giveth the increase.”
        (1 Corinthians 3:4-7, KJB)

        As you well quoted from 2 Timothy 2:15 – each and every one of us also need to be willing to be like the Bereans:
        “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica,
        in that they received the word with all readiness of mind,
        and searched the scriptures daily,
        whether those things were so.”
        (Acts 17:11, KJB)

        Ҧ Trust in the LORD with all thine heart;
        and lean not unto thine own understanding.
        In all thy ways acknowledge him,
        and he shall direct thy paths.”
        (Proverbs 3:5, KJB)

        My Prayer for you is that, while putting on and keeping on “the whole armour of God” (Eph 6:10-20, KJB) that “the only wise God” is giving you:
        “And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
        For which I am an ambassador in bonds:
        that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.”
        (Ephesians 6:19-20, KJB) + 2 Corinthians 10:3-5 | James 4:5-10, KJV
        .

  • Steve

    …This, I’m afraid, is nonsense…no Gentile church planned?…You’re forgetting that God planned the Gentile church TO MAKE THE JEWS JEALOUS and to graft them in to the natural branch (Jews)…

    • No, did not say that the Gentile Church was never planned, just that it was the backup plan. If the Jews had accepted Stephen’s preaching in Acts 7, the Second Coming of Jesus would have occurred right then and there with no Gentile Church ever created. But the Jews rejected, Jesus sat back down, and THEN the Gentile Church was started as the Plan B God had always intended it to be.

      • Mike

        I like the theory but I don’t see how God would ever need a Plan B or back-up plan. It’s kind of like if He could get disappointed in you or I. Can’t happen. He knows the beginning to the end, He IS the Beginning and the End.

        • Bro. Nick Nicholas

          Mike – There are many instances recorded in “the word of the LORD” when fallen men have rejected that which “the Lord God Almighty” has planned and He ALWAYS has a ‘Plan B’
          – think about the ‘Plan B’ that “the only wise God” has eternally had in place when Adam knowingly disobeyed in “the garden of Eden” that which “the LORD God” had commanded!

          The first Biblically written use of the word “rejected” is used twice in 1 Samuel, Chapter 8, Verse 7, KJV:
          Ҧ But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us.
          And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
          And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee:
          for they have not rejected thee,
          ~ but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.”
          (1 Samuel 8:6-7, KJB)
          .

        • Bro. Nick Nicholas

          Mike – I should have made my comment clearer
          ~ “The Lord God Almighty” has ‘no plan b’ – for He has always known everything! – and He is never surprised by what any of us do!

          – From fallen, fallible, created mankind’s ‘point-of-view’ it does appear that there is always ‘Plan B’.

          Ҧ For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
          For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
          so are my ways higher than your ways,
          and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
          (Isaiah 55:8-9, KJB)
          .

      • Rudy Ray

        The back up plan?

        If God is all knowing, ever present, and outside of time, he knows exactly how everything plays out before it even begins. There is no need for a plan-B if you are all aware and outside of time.

        Or am I sadly mistaken.

        • Bro. Nick Nicholas

          Randy Ray – With “the Lord God Almighty” there indeed is no ‘Plan B’
          – but men know not what “the LORD” knows
          – so to us as fallen, fallible, created mankind it does appear as if there are always ‘Plan B’

          Think about the following:
          “Elect according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God the Father,
          through sanctification of the Spirit,
          unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
          Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.”
          (1 Peter 1:2, KJB)

          ~ “FOREKNOWLEDGE” CAPITALized for emphasis – Bro. Nick

      • Tarun

        Brother, it was predestined for theJews not to accept JESUS. Even JESUS talked about a flock of sheep who did not belong t the fold about whom JESUS says I must bring them also and they will listen to HIS Voice. (See John 10:16).

        • Bro. Nick Nicholas

          Tarun – Sir – You use one (1) ‘out of context verse – which is a pretext’ to ‘prove’ your antisemitic theology.

          It was written by the Apostle Paul, a Jew who became a follower of “our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ” in several of the ‘Pauline Epistles’ in “the word of the LORD”:
          “But we preach Christ crucified,
          unto the Jews a stumblingblock,
          and unto the Greeks foolishness;
          But unto them which are called,
          ~ both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
          Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men;
          ~ and the weakness of God is stronger than men.”
          (1 Corinthians 1:23-25, KJB)

          It must also be remembered the eternal Prophetic promise of “the LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel”:
          Ҧ And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
          And I will pour upon the house of David,
          and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem,
          the spirit of grace and of supplications:
          and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.”
          (Zechariah 12:9-10, KJB)

          “And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die;
          but the third shall be left therein.
          And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried:
          they shall call on my name, and I will hear them:
          I will say, It is my people:
          and they shall say, The LORD is my God.”
          (Zechariah 13:8-9, KJB)
          .

    • MRH

      “This, I’m afraid, is nonsense”

      @ Steve: No, not nonsense, just another part of Gods grand plan. Just think if Adam and Eve had not fallen? Or if Satan had not sinned? And why are we under trial, when we didn’t ask to be born? We are simply tossed into the world without a clue of why or where to go. And why did God create the earth, when he had all the angels to worship him? Consider below scripture 💡

      Gen 1:22, 28 KJV – And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. … And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

      Isa 45:18 KJV – For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

      Rev 7:9 KJV – After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

      Rev 21:24 KJV – And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

      Rev 22:2 KJV – In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

      P.S. And to think that some naive Christians claim that heaven will be practically empty? Because they wrongly interpret below passage 😉

      Mat 7:13-14 KJV – Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

  • Doyle Duckworth

    That is exactly how it went down! Jesus was standing and ready to set up the millennial kingdom. Next thing we know is clothing is being cast at the foot of Saul. I have shared this with a Christian friend and she was blow away as was I. Thank you Jesus!

    • There is no getting around the dispensational nature of how the Bible was written. Thank you!

      • Michael Heath

        Bro’ Geoff, I’ve heard this over the years, but it seems impossible. There were and are still too many prophecies (old and new testaments) that were yet to be fulfilled. The LORD said “heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away”. Here are some of the LORD’s words that were spoken with certainty (as good as done!):

        The abomination of desolation mentioned in Daniel; upon this rock I will build my church; the times of the Gentiles; And Jerusalem trodden by the Gentiles; destruction of the temple, preaching the Gospel to the uttermost parts of the earth; telling Peter “but when thou shalt be old [future fact], thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee”, and so on and so on.

        The LORD’s feet will not land on the Mount of Olives until after all nations are gathered against Jerusalem.

        If there was a plan B, the LORD surely would have mentioned it somewhere in his infallible, completely accurate word. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”! Somebody say Amen!!!!!!!!!!!

        LORD Bless and all God’s people said Amen!

        Mike

  • Dorsey Lightner

    Nothing is a surprise to Gods sovereignty . The Gentiles are saved Through The Messiiah , Jesus Christ . Isaiah 60 Zaccariah . The Father has stated His plan of Salvation . He has always known it . We are still trying to understand the depth of His love wisdom and revelation .

    • Bro. Nick Nicholas

      ‘We are still trying to understand the depth of His love wisdom and revelation’

      “Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us,
      but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth’s sake.”
      ( Psalm 115:1, KJB)

      ~ AMEN ! ~ and AMEN ! ~ and AMEN !
      .

  • Ushara

    Interesting article, but there is one fact of scripture that most of you prophecy buffs get wrong. The 7 year tribulation DOES NOT follow immediately after the rapture. If you read your scripture carefully, you will note that the 7 years of tribulation follows the signing of a 7 year peace treaty by Israel and the Anti-Christ. The rapture can happen at any time before the tribulation, but there may be days, weeks, months, or even years between the rapture and the signing of that peace treaty.

    • Michael

      Correct the 7 yr trib is after the treaty is signed by pope francis (false prophet) or odumba (antichrist). It cannot happen after the rapture as the rapture happens right before the vials are poured out. There is no pretrib rapture. This teaching is sending people straight to &&&&. This teaching has made the church lazy. I will not debate this. There are so many things stated in the bible but this teaching is not one of them. If you believe this then I guess we are all left behind. Newsflash. There beheading Christians now in Iraq etc. And the pope is creating the one world religion now, and I think when he comes to usa in Sept this will be the start of the end. He wants a world government body under the guise of climate change. It is not climate change. It is judgement on the world. And as we know from the bible it is not going to get better. Be blessed and chase after Jesus.

      • Michael Heath

        Bro’ Mike,

        We are saved by grace, not whether we believe in pre, mid or post tribulation. We’ll all leave at the same time to meet the LORD in the air! No need to “debate”, the Bible speaks of doubtful disputations.

        The other Mike

  • Suez

    .

  • alain humbert

    Brothers and sisters In CHRIST,

    What Stands Out Is That when the Jews rejected JESUS’ Gospel,
    they closed The Door on themselves but held It Open for us the
    Gentiles. To Salvation.

    As Recorded From our LORD

    ” Salvation Is Of The Jews ” John iv : 22

    Until The Day Of Vindication For Christian Israel With The 144,000
    Jewish Evangelists.

    GOD BLESS Israel.

  • Stephen Byerly

    Interesting. Makes sense. But what if it was that Christ had never sat down at that point? He ascended, prepared the place, was ready to return a few days later, was rejected again by His people, and then sat down at the right hand of the Father to assume the role of the High Priest for those who do call upon His Holy Name?

    Another question, why would He have told His disciples to go and make disciples of all nations, to preach the Gospel to all Creation, when had Plan A come to fruition, He could (and possibly would) have returned right away?

    I may very well be similar to Apollos in this situation; I love the Word and try to proclaim it boldly, but I am a relatively new Christian (6/2/14) and don’t know all that much. So, again, if I’m wrong please show me my error, that I might proclaim the Word in a better manner

    Grace to you all,
    Stephen Byerly

    • Bro. Nick Nicholas

      Stephen Byerly – My strongest recommendation is that you not trust ANY of the responses to articles such as these – and that includes mine.

      To me personally – Brother Geoffrey Grider’s Biblical understanding is well worth studying – in accordance with 2 Timothy 2:15 | Acts 17:11 | 2 Peter 1:20
      ~ depending upon “the Holy Ghost” to teach you ~ Psalm 119:18 | Isaiah 28:9-10; 49:5-12, KJV

      There is ONLY ONE SOURCE of “the truth” ~ and that is found only completely in “the word of the LORD”, the Holy Bible, AV/KJV/KJB:
      “Every word of God is pure:
      he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
      Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”
      (Proverbs 30:5-6, KJB) – also Please read and learn Proverbs 22:17-21, KJV

      Ҧ Trust in the LORD with all thine heart;
      and lean not unto thine own understanding.
      In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.”
      (Proverbs 3:5-6, KJB)
      .

  • Barbara Lovett

    Excellent teaching…Especially the part about our Lord Jesus Christ standing up. Most stumble on that part of the verse. I do have a question about the “peace and safety” in 1 Thessalonians 5:3. I’ve never heard anyone expound on this part of the verse. Thank you for the work you put into dividing the Word as it should be. Blessings to you.

    • denton

      ‘Peace and safety, then sudden destruction’ is a reference to Deut 32:35
      Vengeance is mine, and recompense, for the time when their foot shall slip; for the day of their calamity is at hand, and their doom comes swiftly.’
      Deut 32 is the “Song of Moses” that is referenced in Rev 15:3. It is sung as a witness against the unfaithful apostate church for sinning in the wilderness even though God brought them out of “Egypt”/ slavery.

    • Bro. Nick Nicholas

      Barbara Lovett – As you very well said – ‘Excellent teaching… Especially the part about our Lord Jesus Christ standing up’
      I had never heard – or even thought about why – UNTIL now!

      Thanks be unto “the Lord God Almighty” for allowing Brother Geoffrey to be a candle:
      “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.”
      (Matthew 5:16, KJB)

      Yet another confirmation of the eternal truth that:
      “Every word of God is pure:
      he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.”
      (Prov 30:5, KJB)
      .

  • Abigail Sanders

    What if…what if…what if…I never was a what iffer, but if you’re going to go that route, then what if the Jews had carried out their initial edict to be a light to the world and draw all nations to the Lord? Instead they went idol worshipping. I believe the entire scenario was always a means to an end, which was to legally bind satan and throw him in the pit. Could that have happened without the finished work of the cross? Hmmmm….

    • MRH

      To take it one wild step further. What if God didn’t create anything; heaven, earth, angels, man, animals, etc? For one thing, we wouldn’t be debating 😉

      http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=33597#comment-1124637

      • Abigail Sanders

        It’s sad that you demean my comment with your nonsensical attempt at humor.

  • truth seeker

    For your information, the “last days” of Acts 2:17 are the “last two thousand years” before the Lord returns, similar to Hoseau 6:2…The terrible things of Acts 2:19-20 will occur just before the great and notable day of the Lord’s return (Acts 2:20…Remember a thousand years are like a day to the Lord (2 Peter 3:8).

  • Andrew A

    Such a powerful statement to be said. Yes it is true the church was of sorts a plan B. Though God was always aware that plan B would have to be used and thank fully due to the rejection of Jesus by the Jews I and many others have had a chance to be saved. Also that through the chance given to the Gentiles the Jewish people who rejected would and will be brought back to God again.

    The most amazing take away is how even when by all accounts it would seem on the surface God’s plan is being thwarted by the prince of the air it is really being Guaranteed to succeed. Look at the passage on Stephen he preaches the Word as you said in one of the most amazing speeches recorded. The Jews are overcome with rage and kill him showing a collective rejection and making it seem as God’s people will never truly accept him as king.

    Then we have the Ethiopian eunuch converted then Paul the early church’s greatest enemy the man at Stephens stoning who had cloaks laid at his feet repents and is made an Apostle.

    We are then Told by Paul God is going to save the Gentiles and through that he will bring his people the Jews back to him when it is all over. We find that no his plan hasn’t been ruined it has only been made stronger. God’s will is shown no mater how it might look at first to always be fulfilled.

    Also it is a great article showing of the dispensations and as always a great explanation of it. A good read with a powerful message. Lets us pray we all get something done for Jesus before it is time.

  • Dr Bob Chapman Ph.D, D.Min, MA, BA

    Hi Geoffrey,

    Just wondering about your statement regarding “faith and works” and relating it to repentance and immersion as mentioned by Peter and that Paul didn’t teach such. Yet, in Colossians 2:12 Paul clearly states that immersion is an act of faith not works. “buried with him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through FAITH in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead”.

    Yes, it is all about grace only, but belief, repentance, confession and immersion all play a part in the enactment of grace in your lives.

    In this, Paul surely didn’t supersede Peter, but rather they compliment each other in the ministry they were call into.

    Bob

    • carrierwave

      Bob, get yourself a KJV Bible. These “new versions” are filled with false teachings about Salvation/baptism and remove hundreds of WORDS (God’s Words)from the underlying text. The KJV does not say this at all. It plainly says ..”raised with him through THE FAITH OF THE OPERATION(power and energy) OF GOD, who raised him from the dead”. The KJV is emphasising THE FAITH OF GOD’S POWER, not our exersizing faith when we get baptized. See here is a BIG difference in bibles. One focuses on man’s exersizing his faith, where the KJV focuses on GOD’S POWER. This verse is probably not talking about “water” baptism anyway, but the one and true “baptism” of the Spirit at Salvation. “By ONE SPIRIT were WE ALL BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY.” 1Cor.12:13. The Bible clearl;y teaches “There is one Lord, one Spirit, ONE BAPTISM.” Eph. 4:5 Baptism cannot be an act of Salvation. FAITH always precedes Salvation and baptism FOLLOWS FAITH. We are baptized because WE ARE SAVED, not baptized to be saved.

      • Dr Bob Chapman Ph.D, D.Min, MA, BA

        Dear Carrierwave,

        The KJV is fine….BUT, I prefer the “Greek” myself. Maybe you should try the Greek sometime.

        WORK (As used in Colossians 2:12)

        STRONG’S DEFINITION:
        ἐνέργεια
        energeia
        en-erg’-i-ah
        From G1756; efficiency (“energy”): – operation, strong, (effectual) working.

        Thayer Definition:
        1) working, efficiency
        1a) in the NT used only of superhuman power, whether of God or of the Devil

        Blessings
        Bob

        • jesusislord

          Those who change the Word of God (King James Bible/Hebrew Masoretic Text/Greek Textus Receptus/Spanish RVG 2010) will spend eternity in hell.

        • Bro. Nick Nicholas

          Dr Bob Chapman Ph.D, D.Min, MA, BA – Sir, You say that you prefer “Greek”. Do you fluently read, speak and understand ‘Biblical Greek’? – and/or ‘Biblical Hebrew’? – and/or ‘Biblical Aramaic’?
          Several of the translators that King James was ‘providentially led’ to choose to translate “the word of the LORD” into English – the Holy Bible, AV/KJV/KJB were.

          I have no titles to add before my name, nor letters to place after it, for I am only an English speaking high school graduate – so from most men’s point-of-view – I am a nobody.

          It is my Biblical understanding that we truly are living in the days of ‘cafeteria christianity’ when folks choose by – I like this / Yes, I sure do like that / oh noooooo, I don’t like that / Oh yeah, I’ll take a triple portion of thus and such – as it was in days of olde:
          “In those days there was no king in Israel:
          every man did that which was right in his own eyes.”
          (Judges 21:25, KJB)

          My personal CHRISTian faith is based upon that which is written in “the law of God”, “the word of the LORD”, the Holy Bible, KJV is “the truth”:
          “Every word of God is pure:
          he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
          Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”
          (Proverbs 30:5-6, KJB) – also Proverbs 22:17-21, KJV

          My personal choice – only because of the Continuous Wondrous Mercy and Grace of “the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy” – is to obey that which is written:
          Ҧ Trust in the LORD with all thine heart;
          and lean not unto thine own understanding.
          In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.”
          (Proverbs 3:5-6, KJB)

          “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ:
          for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;
          to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
          For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith:
          as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
          (Romans 1:16-17, KJB)

          “(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)”
          (2 Corinthians 5:7, KJB)
          .

          • Heather

            You are not a nobody Bro Nick. You are our brother in Christ and someone who we would be very proud to stand near at the Bema Seat of Christ!
            God Bless You!

          • Heather

            Bro Nick, you quoted;

            “It is my Biblical understanding that we truly are living in the days of ‘cafeteria christianity’ when folks choose by – I like this / Yes, I sure do like that / oh noooooo, I don’t like that / Oh yeah, I’ll take a triple portion of thus and such – as it was in days of olde.”

            LOL This is classic! Yet so true. The way you worded it. I told you, you are funny and I admire you my brother in Christ!

          • Bro. Nick Nicholas

            Heather – The credit for ‘cafeteria christianity’ belongs to Pastor Charles Lawson
            – from his Biblically sound CHRISTian Preaching and Teaching I have learned so much about the practical application of “the word of the LORD” to my daily walk.

            If there is anything that I am led to post that is a help to another one of “his saints” ~ how very thankful I am
            ~ and may ALL Glory and Honor Eternally be unto our Risen and Living “Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ”, “the author and finisher of our faith”:
            “Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth’s sake.”
            (Psalm 115:1, KJB)
            .

          • Suez

            @Bro. Nick Nicholas Brother, I would take your word any day over someone who feels the need, in their pride and arrogance to have to put titles before and after, their name. Like anyone gives a rip. I’ve never understood why someone feels the need to do so? Why can’t they just be plain, Bob, Jim or Jill. Why do they feel the need to elevate themselves? Do they feel that gives them more creditability? Doesn’t do a thing for me. In fact it completely turns me off! I don’t mean this as a personal attack on anyone,, but for anyone who feels the need to “uplift” their-selves by attaching all the credits to their name on a Christian site like this is kinda prideful to me…LOL Big deal, I say! Even if I had those titles, I surely wouldn’t feel the need to post them on a place like this…I just don’t get it. I’m so glad the KJV Holy Bible says, 1Co_1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
            1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
            1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
            {Thank God for his weak, and plain ole people.} Those are the ones, I am more apt to listen too!!! 🙂

  • Dan

    Thanks.It sounds very logical.However, it appears to me that it has scriptural gaps that got filled with speculations.For instance, the two, instead of one,dispensation in the New Testament. Again, your position seems to suggest that God did not foresee the Stephen’s episode.Is God not all-knowing after all?

  • Min. Glenn A. Hood, Sr.

    Good try, but can’t accept it all because f God’s promise to Abraham that all nations would be blessed, outnumbering the sand and the stars, one representing Jews and the other representing Gentiles. God lives in the past, present, and future similtaneously, so he knew (knows) what would happened and he planned it all. so I see this interpretation still lacking. If no works are necessary then baptism and repentence is no longer necessary or not considered works. I know repentence is necessary. Rommans 10:10 say we believe UNTO salvation and confession of that belied is UNTO salvation, but in Galatians 3:27,we are baptized INTO Christ, unto, unto, into, and didn’t Paul writres both of these books. Hmmmm…..-Min. Hood

    • Steve

      Glenn,

      You may wish to read a previous post that I replied on to get a better picture of my thoughts. However, I just want to touch on the Romans 10 misuse of scripture. Romans 10 was written to the Jew who do not believe in Christ. They have no reason to be baptized as Paul clearly points out earlier in his letter, since they do not believe Him to be the Messiah. Romans starts out telling the Jews that the works of the LAW will not save them. What is the LAW Paul is talking about? It can’t include baptism since Paul says that those who are baptized have been baptized into His death and resurrection which has freed them from sin. See Romans 6:7… Pretty clear that only those who have died with Christ at water baptism are free from sin. There is no way water baptism can be considered a work of merit when you take God at His word.

      • Steve

        I didn’t mean to imply you misused the scripture but that it gets misused in an attempt to disprove baptisms necessity

  • Jez

    Actually, I’m quite glad you posted this.
    A lot of the content of this website is plausible, even though I disagree with the interpretations involved.
    This one is all over the shop.

    Claiming that Peter and Paul preached a different Gospel, and that repentance and baptism signify works not grace.

    Claiming that Paul didn’t preach baptism.

    Claiming that Peter’s use of Joel is about end times tribulation rather than the pouring out of The Holy Spirit for the final age of The Church.

    Claiming that the delay was because of Jewish rejection of The Gospel rather than as God’s plan to include The Gentiles, a plan revealed to Abraham and often after that in the OT, rather than being a spontaneous change of mind at Pentecost.

    And claiming that the use of Joel is about the final fire of judgment rather than the fire of The Spirit poured out on all flesh.

    My sincere hope is that this bizarre and obvious series of misinterpretions and unorthodox beliefs will warn people away from the other pronouncements of dangerous scaremongering on this terrible website.

    Thanks for posting this.

    • Carolann

      “Claiming that Paul didn’t preach baptism”

      Which baptism did Paul preach; water, spirit? 💡 😉

      http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=33597#comment-1124835

      • THIS IS FOR Carolann post The real Carolann didn’t post this comment !PLEASE CHANGE THE NAME IN THE BOX! Put YOUR NAME IN , AND STOP BEING SO LAZY IN CHANGING THE NAME. IT TAKES A FEW SECONDS TO DO THIS.I REALLY WISH THIS WORD PRESS ERROR WOULD BE FIXED! IT IS REAL ANNOYING !!!PEOPLE ARE SO LAZY USING OTHERS NAMES , FOR A COMMENT THEY DIDN’T SAY,sometimes people say really bad things , ugly things and they are making the person who didn’t say that seem ugly, o r some rude comment, then the other person comes along ,and starts saying why this ,why that . Mr.Grider can this error be fixed PLEASE , we are greatful for this website , and all the work that goes into putting this together. THIS HAS GOTTEN out of hand here. Sometimes there are already names in the box, when we go to use the comment section,all this technology we have ,surely something can be done to fix this ANNOYING,ANNOYING PROBLEM. This problem has not always been like this, don’t know how ,or why it started.I enjoy reading this news unfortunately we have Lazy people that don’t want to change the names.THANK YOU Mr.Grider:)

        • Bro. Nick Nicholas

          Carolann – There are many-many responses to the articles that our Brother Geoffrey Grider makes.
          Please go to the ‘Contact us’ at the top right of the page, select the ‘Contact us’ and fill out your comment/request.

          Unfortunately there also seem to be those that are using other folks names deliberately that may be from the ‘Controlled Opposition’ / or are ‘Sewers of Dis-information’ / an ‘insider’ / a ‘troll’ / a ‘shill’ – using militant Mohammedanism approved ‘taqiyya’

          – AND it is only going to become more and more common in these evil, wicked and perverse “these last times”:
          Ҧ And GOD saw that the WICKEDNESS of man was great in the earth,
          and that every IMAGINATION of the thoughts of his heart was only EVIL CONTINUALLY.”
          (Gen 6:5, KJB)

          “And as it was in the days of Noe (Noah),
          so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
          They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage,
          until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and DESTROYED them all.

          Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot;
          they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
          But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and DESTROYED them all.
          Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”
          (Luke 17:26-30, KJB)

          – BUT – for those of us who truly are “born again” believers and followers of “our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ” – we have the eternal blessed assurance that:
          “… If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
          And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
          (John 8:31b-32, KJB)

          “The LORD is good,
          a strong hold in the day of trouble;
          and he knoweth them that trust in him.”
          (Nahum 1:7, KJB) – also Isaiah 26:3-4 | Habakkuk 3:18-19, KJV

          – CAPITALization and emphasis of “the word of the LORD” mine – Bro. Nick

        • Heather

          Seems like Jez is the one who posted in your name Carolann. Notice how she didn’t acknowledge her error to you? I had this same problem on the more recent article Geoffrey posted, “Polk County Sherrif attacked by atheist group for giving sermon while in uniform”.
          There was a Sandy who posted in my name trashing the KJV. And after that she started posting in her own name again, but she never acknowledged to me her error. Trashing the KJV under my name, which I deem to be God’s Inspired Holy Word, was a great offence to me.
          Just to let you know Carolann, your brothers and sisters on this site know who you are. You are a woman of God and we love you! We know what you stand for. So if someone does that again, we knkw it’s not you.

          • Dan

            Heather this (posting in someone else’s name) is happening allot.
            I’ve seen posts in my name which aren’t mine; but I know people on here that know my posts ; know better. Oddly enough I saw a post this last Monday form Bro Nick to you. In the post Bro Nick was asking you to explain one of your prior post (which he displayed along with his post) In the post you made the claim the Jews were not Gods chosen .. Of course I laughed you would never say that ,but these post are becoming more and more frequent. I’m hoping Mr. Grider will do something about it.

          • Heather

            Dan, I did not know that. Oh my goodness. What article was this on? I love the Jewish people and I do make efforts to defend them. There was a character who was using Carolann’s name on the Miley article. He even posted a picture of himself using her name deliberately to agitate her. Did you see that.

          • Bro. Nick Nicholas

            Heather – Here is what the ‘troll’ posted using your name

            BAPTIST PASTOR STEVEN ANDERSON SAYS JEWISH HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS ARE ALL ‘PAID LIARS’
            Geoffrey Grider | June 12, 2015

            Heather says: – June 14, 2015 at 12:29 pm
            Steven Anderson is a real hero, exposing the Jew World Order and their fake history. If I converted to Buddhism, does that make me Chinese? If I converted to Hinduism, does that make me Indian? When Khazarians (Turks) converted to Judaism…. did that make them Hebrew? Well, the Jew World Order seems to think so. They wrote the Bible to invent themselves as the chosen ones. They even got Adolf Hitler to legitimize and nationalize themselves by making Israel and moving them there. Jews are not Hebrew. DNA tests prove Jews genetic mix of many different nationalities… ever since they migrated from their homeland Khazaria (Turkey) in 800 BC. Jews were the original Gypsies, that moved from country to country, thieving, murdering and killing children for their rituals to Moloch. Ever since the Jews infiltrated Monarchies and Governments in countries all over the globe hundreds of years ago, they have been using non jews to do their dirty work for them. People need to understand that Hebrews are a race of Negros, Jews have been proven to be just an invention, created by their Satanic motherland Khazaria, now known as Turkey.
            ———————————————————————
            Bro. Nick Nicholas says: – June 15, 2015 at 10:53 pm

            Before making such condemnatory comments against Heather

            Someone is making lying comments using other writers names

            My recommendation is to ‘clear’ your name and email after making your comments – for someone – or several someones are ‘stirring the pot’
            .

          • Heather

            This has me sick. The Lord knows who wrote that garbage in my name and their days are coming. I had posted several verses towards the bottom of that page defending Israel on June 12th!

          • Bro. Nick Nicholas

            Dan – Will you please let me know what post it was that -‘In the post Bro Nick was asking you to explain one of your prior post (which he displayed along with his post)’?
            There sure are more and more folks posting outright lies while hiding behind someone else’s name – we truly are living in increasingly evil days when:
            “Unto the pure all things are pure:
            but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure;
            but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
            They profess that they know God;
            but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.”
            (Titus 1:15-16, KJB)
            .

    • Min. Glenn A. Hood, Sr.

      Jez, I would agree that this is a little far-fetched, but I would not call it a terrible website. I have come across some sound doctrine and videos that are quite solid. Although i don’t agree with everything, and am far from agreeing with it (I will study it to see just how far maybe tomorrow), I would not call it scaremongering, because although God knows the exxact day and time of Jesus’ return, you would probably be shocked at how soon I believe His return is. I have studied prophesey since 1980 when it made no sense at all and when considerinng Scripture, politics, economy, news that few know about, and other things never considered and bring them together with the timing of all, (yes I agree with an earlier comment that the Day ofJacob’s trouble and the Fulfillment of the Gntiles resulting in a rapture does not need a seven year treaty to bring it on.) I’ll need to get my blog together on it before my time runs out. I refuse to lose credability by setting a date, but when you look at dozens of major things coming together that has never come together before and nevr will again, it has me given a certain time pleenty of consideration. But Jez, I emphasize that this is not a terrible scarmongering site. God bless yo all and goodnight.- Min Hood.

      • Naneki

        It must have been facinating for you to be watching prophecies being fulfilled and making more sense and popping into fruition right before your eyes after all these years huh? We are the fortunate generation to witness everything Jesus spoke about that will come true in the last days! Praise God

      • Dan

        @ Heather, yes when I saw that post from Bro Nick I thought to myself (what tha) But I knew Bro Nick wouldn’t do that . I went to bed that night thinking (well tomorrows going to be interesting) . I’m hoping Geoffrey will fix this but I believe the problems is more complicated than we realize (from a tech stand point) because its been around for awhile and Geoff hasn’t it fixed yet..

      • Dan

        @ Bro Nick- Brother I’ve been hoping you would not ask me that. Only because I thought it was on this thread and I cannot find it either. The only thing I can suggest is to ask if Geoff saw it. But, the truth is I did see it but had no doubt it was not from you. The post was from you wanting Heather to explain a past post apparently that you had found ; in which Heather was stating the Jews were not Gods chosen people. (not the exact quote ) but the substance of the post was similar. Like I’ve said I read the post and then went to bed because it was late. I can say the post was between the 14th and 16th of this month (June).. One thing I also noticed was you stopped posting for a few days (at least I didn’t see a post from you) after this alleged post. If I’m correct I think I saw you start posting here again on the 17th (Wed) and you and Heather were fine.. Weird huh? This problem with Geoff’s site has been going on I think for almost a year now. Because I started to see it in 2014 and complained to Geoff about it(more than once) through Geoff’s (contact)link but, never got an answer.. I left NTEB hoping he would fix the problem and maybe he did but its back.

        • Bro. Nick Nicholas

          Dan – Brother – Thank you for your reply, and I understand the difficulty in trying to find one response amongst hundreds.

          • Dan

            Yes Bro.Nick but still we have the problem with the question
            ” Is Geoffrey Grider listening and better yet trying to fix the problem “.

            Geoffrey as far as I can tell you’ve said nothing about it , and I believe you should because now its getting ugly.

          • Yes, I am working on fixing the email address “bug”, please be patient. Thank you.

    • That is correct ! See my commit above under faithseeker! This is a total twist of what these scriptures are teaching and to say that the church was a plan B for the gentiles does not go along with what Jesus taught in Matt.16. We as man can not interfere with Gods plans. I think we all need a “Phillip” to teach us sometime and then be like the Bereans and search the Scripture to make sure these things are so. Seems like too many are ” wresting the Scripture to their own destruction, 2 Peter 3:16.

      • Dan

        @ Geoffrey Grider Thank you Geoff !! Patience I can do …

  • Jez

    “If no works are necessary then baptism and repentence is no longer necessary or not considered works”

    @ Min. Glenn A. Hood, Sr.: So which baptism; John (water), Jesus (spirit)? 🙂

    Eph 4:4-6 KJV – There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    P.S. You need to read and absorb such bibles topic better brother 💡 😉

    • Min. Glenn A. Hood, Sr.

      You’ve just quoted me saying something that wasn’t anything I said?!

      My line is that baptism is not a work, it’s an outward sign of an inner transformation of faith/grace, and that this is how both Paul and Peter saw it.

      P.S. You need to read what’s on the screen better brother!

      • Dr Bob Chapman Ph.D, D.Min, MA, BA

        Hi Glenn,

        Wouldn’t it be more rightly put to state that immersion is an act of faith in the working of God as Paul stated in Colossians 2:12?

        Actually I have never read anywhere in the scriptures where immersion is referred to as an outward sign of an inner transformation of faith/grace.

        Blessings Bob

        • MRH

          Baptism doesn’t always mean water immersion 😉

          Can mean anything; water, spirit, name, etc 🙂

          • Dr Bob Chapman Ph.D, D.Min, MA, BA

            True. I refer to immersion herein because in the context of the discussion one is referring to the act of submergence in water not the act of sprinkling, which was not practiced in the early church.

            Just like to keep the two distinct from one another as one is of God and the other of man.

            Bob

          • We are not saved by water baptism in the age of Grace. What Peter preached in Acts 2:38 was faith plus works….

    • Heather

      @Jez, perhaps you need to offer our dear sister Carolann an apology for posting in her name and then never acknowledging your error to her.

  • Dr Bob Chapman Ph.D, D.Min, MA, BA

    A couple of important things happened in Acts 2 where Joel’s prophecy fulfillment is recorded and they are worth noting.

    The Promise

    Luke 24:49…the Promise and all it relates to, which included spiritual gifts, was coming. Acts 1:4…The promise was to be waited for. Acts 2:16…the promise was sent. Acts 2:38-39…the promise and all that it contains is received by repentant, immersed believers who obeyed the gospel call then, and who obey the gospel call throughout the ages; even to this day.

    The “fiery” glory restored.

    The fiery glory, some would say the (shekinah) glory, that was on Adam and Eve when they walked with God in the cool of the day and were without sin, and which was lost when they did sin, returned on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:1-4. That glory relates to the reference by Paul in Romans 2:23, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”. Obedience to the gospel call restores the relationship mankind first had when sinless in the presence of God in the Garden. Through the first Adam it was lost. Through the second Adam it was restored, Romans 5:12-21. Praise the Lord!

  • Donna R Brown

    Very intense information. Lots to be learned. But I must say I have respect for believers who have devoted themselves to understanding and discerning God’s truths from the word. Geoffrey you are one of them and I thank you for your hard work to learn and bring to us these truths.
    I’m so sleepy, I’ve been going through some treatments, and with the meds and fatigue, it’s been difficult for me to follow and process some of this information.
    That’s why I so appreciate those like Geoffrey Grider and others who devote the time to understanding the truths and then bringing that information to us. I do realize we must also rely on the Holy Spirit to make sure we are grasping the truth. Thank you.

  • colinUK

    I think that is a very wrong interpretation. Peter used that quote from Joel about the last days because that time was in the ‘last days’….and we still are in the ‘last days’.

    It was approx. 4000 years (or four 1000-year days) from Adam to Jesus’ death and resurrection. It has been almost 2 days (2000 years) since the Lord returned to heaven. That gives a total of almost 6 days (6000 years) of man’s history on earth. We know that Jesus is bringing in the final seventh day, the 1000-year millenial reign….the seventh day when the earth/mankind will rest from wars and evil. This is God’s seven-day (7000-year) plan for the world.

    When Peter said this is the ‘last days’, approx. 4 ‘days’ had already passed. World history was beyond the half-way point in God’s timetable, and we were and still are in the last portion of the 7 ‘days’.

    6 days are now very near completion. We await the Lord’s return at the end of the tribulation (and before for the saints in the rapture) to usher in the final seventh day, which is also God’s Sabbath day of rest for the earth.

    Peter preached the same gospel as Paul. And it was always God’s plan to reach the gentile nations and build His church among them.

    • Bro. Nick Nicholas

      colinUK – Thank you so much for saying – ‘I think that is a very wrong interpretation.’
      – instead of that which is so common, of stating as fact personal understandings.

      With you there can be a meaningful conversation and dialogue.
      Personally I think that the understandings written by Brother Geoffrey in this article are well worth more study, prayer, and thought:
      “Knowing this first,
      that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
      For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
      but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
      (2 Peter 1:20-21, KJB)
      .

      • Heather

        Bro Nick, I have been seeing some people using my name to post things that are totally opposite to my beliefs and values in the past two weeks. It’s been happening to Carolann as well. Dan too, and others. He told me in his post above that someone posted in my name saying the Jews are not God’s chosen people and that you had copied it to ask me about it. What article was this on?
        That is terrible, because I love the Jewish people! The attacks to this site are getting worse.

        • Bro. Nick Nicholas

          Heather – My understanding is that the posting of false and malicious ‘comments’ by the ‘Controlled Opposition’ / ‘Sewers of Dis-information’ / ‘insiders’ / ‘trolls’ / ‘shills’ – all using militant Mohammedanism approved ‘taqiyya’-
          – is only going to increase as more and more folks are given over evermore to to “a reprobate mind” (Romans 1:28, KJB) and “strong delusion” (1 Thess 2:11, KJB)

          I know that ‘the real Heather’ does indeed love ISRAEL and the JEWS ~ may we and others often:
          “PRAY FOR THE PEACE OF JERUSALEM:
          they shall prosper that love thee.”
          (Psalm 122:6, KJB)

          For we know that:
          “Behold, he that keepeth ISRAEL shall neither slumber nor sleep.”
          (Psalm 124:4, KJB)
          .

          • Heather

            I know it’s only going to get worse, but I can’t help to wonder how much longer God’s people have to be surrounded by the filth!
            Thank you my dear brother for defending my name!

          • Bro. Nick Nicholas

            Heather – The only things that ‘keep me going’ against these ‘spiritual attacks’ are “the words of the LORD” that I have hid in my heart, and read and learn more of – for I know that:

            “The LORD is good,
            a strong hold in the day of trouble;
            and he knoweth them that trust in him.”
            (Nahum 1:7, KJB)

            “Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee:
            because he trusteth in thee.
            Trust ye in the LORD for ever:
            for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:”
            (Isaiah 26:3-4, KJB)

            “Yet I will rejoice in the LORD,
            I will joy in the God of my salvation.
            The LORD God is my strength,
            and he will make my feet like hinds’ feet,
            and he will make me to walk upon mine high places.”
            (Habakkuk 3:18-19, KJB)

            My desire is to each and every day to remember to Pray fervently unto “the Lord God Almighty
            ~ ‘Perhaps today dear LORD’
            ~ for I know that one day will be ‘THE DAY’:
            “He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly.
            Amen.
            Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
            The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.
            Amen.”
            (The Revelation of Jesus Christ 22:20-21, KJB)
            .

  • Sue a watcher

    That is a pretty powerful statement. The apostles did think those events would happen in there time. It explains why we are still waiting, but not for much longer. Praise be to the Lord!

  • Keith D.

    Thank you, Geoffrey, for that very logical explanation. All of what you published becomes so startling clear IF (and I mean IF) a proper study of what “The Church” actually is has been undertaken. I read E.W. Bullinger’s “The Church Epistles” a couple years ago. My understanding had always been darkened to Paul’s Epistles and was completely blown away about the detailed examination of just how unique the Body of Christ is apart from all other Scripture. It was a very uplifting and rewarding study.

  • truth seeker

    Once again, the “Last Days” are the two thousand years (days) when the Christians will be doing those good things listed in Acts 2:17-18. At, or near the end of those days, we will see those bad things listed in Acts 2:19-20…Peter says that the light will shine in a dark place until the third day and the “Day Star” (Jesus) shines (2 Peter 1:19)…You will notice in Daniel that the author is writing about the first anti-christ when suddenly he is writing about the 21st Century version… The same thing with this passage. The writer of Acts 2 is covering two thousand years.

  • Dan

    Once again ; who is right? I will say ; the standing up and sitting down and plan A and plan B is amusing to read.. So , who doesn’t understand omniscient ?

    • Abigail Sanders

      Precisely. There is nor ever was a “plan B” from God’s perspective. It always was, is, and will be according to Plan A. Human thinking, for its need to ‘reason,’ cannot wrap its mind around it. God is not a God who limits His actions to human reason, or human logic. Again I postulate that the entire Biblical scenario is contingent on one verse: Genesis 4:15 – “I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; IT SHALL BRUISE THY HEAD, AND THOU SHALT BRUISE HIS HEEL.” What does that mean? In a nut-shell, God is saying “Here’s the problem: sin nature; and here is how We, the Holy Trinity, plan to rid Our creation of the “sin nature.” There had to be a chosen people to carry a seed/bloodline kept pure for Messiah’s appearance, and there had to be a rebellion. Why did there have to be a rebellion? Because rebellion is the #1 characteristic of the sin nature. No mere human, no amount of animal sacrifice could resolve/absolve could absolve mankind of the sin nature. The Son of God had to be born here as a man, had to be crucified by His own, had to be resurrected, and the gentiles had to be offered salvation. Otherwise God is not a just God. Why was Stephen martyred? Because the time of the Gentiles was not complete, and the time for Israel’s cleansing from all her filthiness had not arrived. Why did Jesus stand up? He stood up for Stephen, that Stephen might see Him and be at peace, confident in the Blessed Hope…that Jesus was ready–to receive Stephen’s spirit. Ezek. 36: 22 – “Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name’s sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.” According to that passage of scripture, God is not changing His plan according to men’s performance…He’s doing it for His Name’s Sake…”Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:” Isaiah 46:10

  • Bill L.

    I know the scripture says that my name was written in the lambs book of life from before the foundation of the world, so for me as a gentile in the body of CHRIST was expected. The scriptures speak of those outside of Israel, being part of the kingdom both in the old and new testaments.
    The FATHER had a plan to save humanity, and though it may manifest in dispensations, it was still one plan of which I am most thankful.
    Belief in the death, burial, and resurrection of CHRIST as payment for my sin and eternal life with HIM. PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME.
    Your fellow warrior IN CHRIST.

  • Nancy McKnabb

    Acts 2 was not the beginning… Genesis 1 was the beginning.

  • Richard

    Outstanding! I had never seen it this way, but it makes sense. God, in his wisdom and grace, gave the Jewish people every chance possible to accept Jesus as their messiah. It’s always amazes me how God the Father, works out his plan on this earth, and how He uses every day people in the process.

  • Glenn A, Hood, Sr.

    As to that baptism being and outward expression, I don’y accept. If someone can’t get to the water, say a severe burn victum, yes, God knows and understands all circumstances. Jesus says whoever is born of “the water and the Spirit”. Acts 2:37.. Men and brethren, what shall we do… v38… Repent and be baptized everyone of you and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit… Romans 10:10.. with heart man believeth UNTO salvation, and with the mouth confession is made UNTO salvatio. Galatians 3:27.. you are baptized INTO Christ. Get your greek lexicon out or strong’s concordance and in all instances its water immersion. The satanic forces within the church which I should not have to identify is trying to change a lot of doctrine, even basic doctrine of salvation. Its more than answering a couple of questions and saying a canned prayerfor various reasons such as: a tract ministers wanting to up thier numbers, no baptismal in the church, and all out laziness. And if I am going to err, I will err on the safe side.-Min Hood. P.S. Someone use your own name and not mine or fix this problem, oe I will read, rightly divide, and keep my thoughts to myself. With love-Min. Hood.

    • MRH

      Is it possible that someone who has administrative access manipulating the post

      Jesus says whoever is born of “the water and the Spirit”. Acts 2:37.. Men and brethren, what shall we do… v38… Repent and be baptized everyone of you and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

      @ Glenn A, Hood, Sr.: No, the blog is glitched, unless NTEB is doing it on purpose. Whatever the case they ignore all requests to fix things. As for water baptism, consider the words of Jesus and Peter 💡

      Mar 1:5 KJV – And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

      Jhn 3:3-6 KJV – Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

      Act 1:5 KJV – For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

      Act 2:38 KJV – Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

      Act 10:47 KJV – Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

      Act 11:16 KJV – Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

      Act 19:3-5 KJV – And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

      1Co 12:13 KJV – For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

      P.S. Water baptism was actually intended to end after Pentecost, but the church continued obsolete practice, with alterations 😯

  • Gilbert

    The problem with interpretation has to do with time. The understanding of time is too limited at the same time, time itself is limited.

    Why didn’t John mention anything of the fall of the temple 70 AD, but he writes about darkness and light. The key is in Jeremiah 33 and the covenant of day and night.

    ON the other hand, Peter’s speech tells a lot about the two witnesses and who they are.

    • MRH

      ON the other hand, Peter’s speech tells a lot about the two witnesses and who they are

      @ Gilbert: So whom are they?

  • Dr Bob Chapman Ph.D, D.Min, MA, BA

    Hi Geoffry,

    I don’t recall saying “Baptism saves” you in my original comment. You must have assumed I said that.

    Bob

    • Dan

      Yes, it is all about grace only, but belief, repentance, confession and immersion all play a part in the enactment of grace in your lives.

      You muddy up the waters there Bob. Just say we are saved by( Grace alone)
      because its true.. When you try to read more into the meaning some simple folk might get confused into thinking they need to add to what is already finished.

  • Who is this Son of Man who will be on the earth during the last days that Christ speaks of in Luke 17? “Luke 17:22,23,”24,25,26,30,37.” Is not Christ The Son of Man? The scriptures in Luke 17 might help to understand John 12:28, Matthew 24:28 and Luke 17:37. Christ is speaking of the end of the age in Luke 17.Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days Noah, so shall it be also in the days of The Son of Man. Could this Son of Man spoken of in Luke 17 be The Man Child in Revelation 12:5? Since we know that Christ has been at the right hand of The Father since the ascension around 33 or 34 A.D., whatever happened to this Man Child that was caught up unto The Fathers Throne? So we have The Father sitting on his throne, Christ standing directly to The Fathers right…and this Man Child sitting on the steps of The Fathers throne. Has this Man Child been sitting there on The Fathers throne for the last 2000 years? Whatever happened to him? Did this Man Child ever grow up while Christ was still at The Fathers right hand? If The Man Child in Revelation 12:5 is Christ, then how can Christ be at The Fathers right hand at the same time? Could this carcase in Matthew 24:28 and Luke 17:37 be the body of this Man Child that Christ is speaking of in Luke 17 and Revelation 12:5? (Let me guess; all these scriptures I’ve listed all concern the spiritual church and Israel, right?) Wrong.

    • MRH

      Rev 12:1-5 KJV – And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars [12 tribes of Israel]: And she [Israel] being with child [baby Jesus] cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born [King Herod’s baby slaughter]. And she brought forth a man child [adult Jesus], who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne [Jesus resurrected].

      P.S. Revelation 12 concerns; past, present, future.. according to John 😉

  • Dr Bob Chapman Ph.D, D.Min, MA, BA

    Hi Dan,

    Yes, belief, repentance, confession and baptism all involve faith and grace. The most misunderstood is baptism though.

    Jesus said if you love Him, keep his commandments. His first commandment after his resurrection was for us to make disciples and baptize them, why? Because it is an act of faith in the work of God in the disciples’ life for at baptism the disciple enters into Christ, Gal. 3:27, Romans 6:3-4 and one enacts the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and their old man is buried away and they rise from the water to walk in newness of life by faith.

    The scripture no where says that one believes into Christ, repents into Christ, confesses into Christ. The Christian walk is only possible because we are “in” Christ and He is in us. Getting into Him is essential for all disciples.

    Bob

    • Dan

      Hey Bob, praise God ! Yes he is in us and we are in him. Tell the world my brother ” We are part of King David king Solomon we are
      (because of the cross) literally part of the family of God
      (and it is finished).
      I am related to Jesus because his blood now flows in mine. There’s nothing I can do to change that now! We are born again !!!

    • carrierwave

      Nobody and NOWHERE in the bible was ANYONE ever saved except by GRACE through FAITH alone. Making baptism a “work of grace” is an oxymoron and a complete contradictory phrase based on circular theology of man’s wisdom, not the Word of God.

      The FAITH CHAPTER, Hebrews 11, starts with the FIRST RECORDED SALVATION EXPERIENCE IN THE BIBLE; ABEL. “By FAITH” Abel brought a more EXCELLENT sacrifice… testifying HE WAS RIGHTEOUS”.(Heb.11:4 Gen.4:4)God “RESPECTED IT”. This was a firstling, blood offering and the fat therof–not of his WORKS, but “BY FAITH”.

      Abraham “believed God” (Gal. 3:6, Genesis 15:6)and it was “counted unto him FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS”. NO CIRCUMSICION, BAPTISM ADDED.

      So, here we have “2 witnesses” given (imputed) RIGHTEOUSNESS (salvation) because their FAITH ALONE recorded in the OLD TESTAMENT picturing the NEW TESTAMENT salvation also BY FAITH ALONE IN JESUS CHRIST.

      “Works” and “Grace” will not be EVER seated in the same chair and CANNOT be mixed together and produce SALVATION. Romans 11:6 NOTE: Romans 11:6 is in reference to ISRAEL and how they were to be SAVED. Romans 10:1-4 Paul tells us Israel was NOT saved because they were “going about to establish THEIR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS and had not SUBMITTED THEMSELVES unto RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD”, which is: FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST ALONE.(Romans 10:4)

      Any “seeming references” to BAPTISM as being part of the Gospel plan of SALVATION is simply a false interpretation of those scriptures. Baptism ALWAYS occurs AFTER FAITH IN JESUS in the Bible. We are not saved BY FOLLOWING JESUS CHRIST; we are SAVED BY BELIEVING ON (FAITH IN) JESUS. “Following Christ”, ALWAYS comes AFTER we are saved and NOT a “prerequisite” for BEING SAVED. The only prerequisite for being saved is that a SINNER BELIEVES on Jesus Christ and he SHALL BE SAVED. John 6:47.

      There are over 8 scripture references during Jesus’ ministry on earth where Jesus forgave people of their sins and saved them WITHOUT BAPTISM. The parable of the publican and the pharisee Luke 18:9-14 again shows SALVATION by simple FAITH, WITHOUT BAPTISM. The “woman at the well”(John 4) , “The thief on the cross” (Luke 23:42), “the man with palsy”(Mat.9:2),”The sinner woman” (Luke 7:47)”Woman in adultery about to be stoned” (John 8:11)”The 10 Lepers” (Luke 17:17)

      It is simply ludicrous for Jesus to teach His disciples by these examples, before their very eyes, as a prelude to the future ministry after Acts 2 of the “church” and demand “baptism” as a prequisite and co-redemptive agent with “faith” to save a soul for Heaven. “God is not the author of confusion”. God does not switch on and off the “water” dispensationally when salvation is by FAITH ALONE. Paul does not arrive on the scene suddenly with the “heavenly hydrant wrench” given to him by Jesus who tells him to “cut off the water supply, I am SAVING PEOPLE DIFFERENTLY AFTER TODAY!” I don’t see it all in or buy this article’s explanation why God changes His plan of Salvation for one people and not for another. SALVATION is soley BY FAITH ALONE IN JESUS CHRIST.

      • Dr Bob Chapman Ph.D, D.Min, MA, BA

        Dear Carrierwave,

        I don’t believe I made this statement which you introduce within your comments, “Making baptism a “work of grace”.

        As for immersion, it was in practice at least 300 years before John the Baptist and Christ preached it to Israel and their need to participate in it and He did it by way of example. It was originally for Gentiles who wanted to convert to Judaism, but Israel now were also called to repent, confess their sins and be baptized because the kingdom of God was coming.

        Also Matthew 3:5-6 states, “Then Jerusalem, ALL Judea, and ALL the region around the Jordon went out to him, and were baptized in the Jordon, confessing their sins”. See also Mark 1:4-5,Luke 3:21 where ALL is again mentioned. This could well have included those you mention in your comments, inclusive of the thief.

        Saul (Paul) certainly believed in Jesus, but he stated in his testimony in Acts 22:16 that even after his encounter with Jesus, which produced his faith in Jesus, he was told by Nicodemus that he needed to be immersed and wash away his sins and not hesitate to do it…exactly what Peter told the believers in Acts 2:37-38. Why would Saul need to wash away his sins if they had been washed away when he first believed? Surely if faith is enough his sins would have been removed on the Damascus road, but he claims they weren’t until three days later when Nicodemus was sent by Jesus Himself to baptize the believing, repentant confessing Saul.

        Interesting also in Acts 19:1-6 that Paul asked the disciples who came to him if they received the Holy Spirit when they believed. They said they had not heard of the Holy Spirit. Paul then asked them what was their baptism. That’s odd; why didn’t he ask them what they had believed because that was his opening question? When they told him they had been originally baptized under John the Baptist’s baptism he told them they had to be baptized again in the name of Jesus if they were to receive the Holy Spirit. They were baptized in the name of Jesus and they did receive the Holy Spirit. If baptism is not important, why would he insist on their re-baptism in the correct manner instructed by Jesus?

        Bob

  • Laura

    I know I’m really ignorant but what does Malachi 3:16-18 refer to?
    Malachi 3: 16-18 Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.
    17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
    18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

  • Laura

    sorry for getting off the subject.

  • Bill L.

    The thief on the cross was not baptized, but was saved and is in heaven now almost two thousand years, as promised by JESUS.
    It is one of the things we are required to do after repenting and believing, the other is communion. We are baptized to publicly identify with HIS death, burial, and resurrection, and communion is to seek ourselves and our sin to be a purifying agent, to keep a short account and bring sin to the throne for cleansing and renewal.
    Also, JESUS told the disciples the temple would be destroyed, then the antichrist would defile the future temple, just as Daniel 9:26,27.
    People are going to hell, JESUS said also, believe and repent.
    Your fellow warrior IN CHRIST.

  • Another Slam Dunk, Geoffrey!

  • truth seeker

    Why two thousand years for the Last Days (Acts 2;17-18)?…We already had four thousand years before Yeshua and we were promised two thousand more before the Seventh Millennium…Yeshua said in Hosea 5:15 that He will return to heaven and won’t return until the Jews seek His face, something they will do in Zechariah 13:8-9)…After two thousand years God will revive the Jewish nation (something He already is doing) and in the Millennium He will raise Israel up to be the paramount nation on earth, with Yeshua His son the ruler of the world (Hosea 6:2)…I don’t understand why you can’t see the prophecies of Acts 2 being fulfilled over the last two thousand years with the doomsday part scheduled for the near future,.. Salvation can still be obtained (Acts 2:21).

  • The teaching presented above is very dogmatic, strange and or private interpretation. Did you even go to bible college? I like lots of the news you post but your bible teachings seem dogmatic and heretical. It sounds like you make up your doctrines as you go along.
    You do know Paul was baptized too, right?
    Acts 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

  • It seems too many of the above have not learned the gospel doctrine of the Lord including and not limited to the importance of works of faith commanded by the Lord and his apostles such as baptism.
    James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
    James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    So if you reader do have have works of faith then you are spiritually dead.

  • 1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

  • Don’t tell me you have not read the Epistle of Paul to the Ephesians
    Ephesians 4:5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

  • edwitness

    Geoffrey,
    I like what you wrote. But, the plan b thing is hard to accept seeing that God chose us from before the foundations of the world. Eph.1:4-ff & 2:11-22.
    But there is no doubt that the church age ends with the rapture and then the time of Jacob’s trouble will commence.
    Blessings:-}

  • Michael

    Correct the 7 yr trib is after the treaty is signed by pope francis (false prophet) or odumba (antichrist). It cannot happen after the rapture as the rapture happens right before the vials are poured out. There is no pretrib rapture. This teaching is sending people straight to &&&&. This teaching has made the church lazy. I will not debate this. There are so many things stated in the bible but this teaching is not one of them. If you believe this then I guess we are all left behind. Newsflash. There beheading Christians now in Iraq etc. And the pope is creating the one world religion now, and I think when he comes to usa in Sept this will be the start of the end. He wants a world government body under the guise of climate change. It is not climate change. It is judgement on the world. And as we know from the bible it is not going to get better. Be blessed and chase after Jesus.

    • MRH

      Michael: The tribulation is a holy war which ends with rapture. Also the tribulation is not 7, but 3.5 years long. The latter half of Daniels 70th week. The first half is the time of the temple. As for Francis’ USA visit, you may well be right. For one thing, both he and Obama are of the NWO. In fact UN is the hub of the NWO, and have nearly completed their 10 horn empire. The final horn is the NAU, which is underdevelopment. Anyway, they* hide behind signs and symbols, and strange names and agendas. So that the populace is blind unto their diabolical games. *Cloaked DEMONS!

      As for persecution, it’s nothing new, and the Mideast is an eternal boiling pit of lava. There has been turmoil there since Israel was reborn in 1948, and such will continue there until the rapture.

  • Steve

    MRH says:
    June 18, 2015 at 3:49 pm
    Too many people lump water baptism into works of the Law of which Paul talks against. Baptism was never a work of the Law and is simply an act of obeying our God.

    @ Steve: Total nonsense! Water baptism was of the law period. Therefore it was a work of the law. Water saves no one, faith does. We are saved by obeying the gospel, not by any other material means

    P.S. You also misinterpret Paul’s message concerning baptism. It is much figurative, not literal language he uses here. Basically you lack spiritual understanding, as do many folk

    _______________________________________________________________________________

    Please enlighten me MHR, I am always looking for the truth, the truth that is not nonsense.
    Here are a few questions you may be able to help me clear up.

    1.What is the Law that Paul is talking about? Please show me how water baptism is part of that Law.

    2.When did the Law end?

    3.Was Peter wrong when he told people to repent and be baptized for the remission of sin? Was he telling them to obey the Law to receive remission? If so why and when did it change?

    4.Was Jesus wrong when He included baptism in the making of disciples?

    5. Please tell us based on the context of 1 Peter what he is saying.

    6. Why would Paul mean a different baptism than what he underwent?

    These are just a few very simple questions that any person such as yourself who does not lack spiritual understanding should be able to illustrate using scripture. I eagerly await your reply.

  • MRH

    @ Steve: See my below ==> inserts 😉

    Please enlighten me MHR, I am always looking for the truth, the truth that is not nonsense.
    Here are a few questions you may be able to help me clear up.==> That’s what I’m here for brother, a witness for holy truths 🙂

    – 1.What is the Law that Paul is talking about? Please show me how water baptism is part of that Law. ==> | Luk 16:16 KJV – The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. | Gal 4:4-5 KJV – But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

    – 2.When did the Law end? ==> | Rom 10:4 KJV – For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. | Gal 3:23-24 KJV – But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Note: The ‘law’ was material, and ‘faith’ is spiritual. We are no longer bound by the material aspect for salvation.

    3.Was Peter wrong when he told people to repent and be baptized for the remission of sin? Was he telling them to obey the Law to receive remission? If so why and when did it change? ==> | Act 2:38 KJV – Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. | Note: the phrase ‘name of Jesus Christ’. That means to be immersed in Jesus’ name period end quotation. The later HRCC church added water to things, and hence a corrupt doctrine was born.

    4.Was Jesus wrong when He included baptism in the making of disciples? ==> | Did I say Jesus was wrong? Luk 3:21 KJV – Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, | Note: the phrase ‘all the people’, which means none weren’t water baptised in the whole holy land. Which means that Acts 2:38 didn’t involve water, being that it was the beginning of the new spiritual baptism. Though there was some intial confusion.

    – 5.Please tell us based on the context of 1 Peter what he is saying. ==> | 1Pe 3:21 KJV – The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: | Note: the word ‘figure’ implies a figuritive passage. Also this is a very difficult passage to understand by itself. Especially since the passage is commonly used to support water baptism. It would take me much biblical research to try and explain things, and not something I’m particularly in the mood for tonight 🙁

    6.Why would Paul mean a different baptism than what he underwent? ==> | There are two types of baptism; material (John), spiritual (Jesus). Mar 1:8 KJV – I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Act 19:2-6 KJV – He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. | Note: the word ‘but’ means in contrast to, NOT inclusion with 😉

    These are just a few very simple questions that any person such as yourself who does not lack spiritual understanding should be able to illustrate using scripture. I eagerly await your reply.==> You ask some very difficult questions, and so I sincerely hope I’ve answered your things well enough?

    P.S. Phillip didn’t command the eunuch to be baptized in water, the eunuch requested it, as he only knew of John’s baptism. So Philip kindly honored his request, but made sure that the eunuch received the Spirit as well (through teaching him about Christ), else all would have been in vain. | Act 8:34-38 KJV – And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

    Hint: as long as one hangs onto tradition, one will always be stuck in a spiritual rut. It happened with the Jewish leaders of Jesus’ and the apostles day, and it continues into our times. I myself don’t follow tradition, and so my spiritual understanding is not crunched 🙂

    • Steve

      I really don’t have a desire to participate in debates such as these. They lead to nothing but frustration due to what I call strategic ignorance.
      I truly believe that Satan is at play with people such as this who make attempts to distort what God has clearly made simple so that everyone can know and understand that they have eternal live. Satan through man, attempts to confuse us by those who believe they have some special knowledge that no one can grasp by simply reading Gods word.

      1. The Law Paul is referring to the Mosaic Law which includes nothing concerning baptism.
      2. The Law was in effect until John came pointing the way to Christ not until after John. Jesus was baptized by John, it was at this time God publicly recognized Jesus as His Son. Why because of His obedience. This is not tradition it is clear fact based on easy to read scripture.

      3. Jesus told Nicodemus one must be born of the water and the Spirit. I know that some will twist this to mean water of the womb but that is not water and is just plain silly. Nicodemus was a full grown adult, why would Jesus need to tell anyone they needed to be born into this world. Besides, immediately following conversation Jesus and His disciples went about baptizing in water. Anyone with any ability to see truth can see the plain meaning here. Again not tradition but plain biblical truth.

      4. Jesus said one must believe and be baptized but if you don’t believe baptism does nothing for you. This fits perfect with the eunuch’s confession and Phillips reply to him. Again plain biblical truth.

      5. Water baptism fits perfect with our death burial and resurrection of which Paul says is required in order to be joined to Christ.Romans 7.If we don’t die, we are still joined to the Law and all of its requirements. In order to remove baptism by immersion in water one has to be intent on changing God’s word.

      I would suggest that people read their bible and let the Holy Spirit speak to you verses some writings of a someone who claims to have some insight that you can’t get from the Holy Spirit. One thing I have learned is that people who start a conversation by attempting to belittle you are not lead by the Holy Spirit.

      What MRH calls nonsense is not what I wrote but what God wrote. I want nothing to do with people who claim Gods word is nonsense.

      • MRH

        “What MRH calls nonsense is not what I wrote but what God wrote. I want nothing to do with people who claim Gods word is nonsense”

        @ Steve: I don’t call Gods word nonsense, I call your twisting of the word nonsense. Also I wonder if you’re not just a troll looking for a battle? For certain you’re a know-it-all type with a mean streak 🙁

        You asked my responses on questions, and so I gave them. If you didn’t want to debate or discuss matter, then why did you waste my precious time and energy researching things? 😡

        Go ahead and enjoy your traditional illusion, but it isn’t going to gain you praise from God. I’d highly suggest you watch the above video series on Christian Baptism 💡

        P.S. You are spiritually blind and will remain such until you wake up!

        • Steve

          Very revealing comments MRH, thanks for reassuring me. May I suggest that instead of watching all these videos that you spend your research in Gods word. If you don’t have a bible here is a link.

          It is even a link to the King James version

          http://biblehub.com/kjv/genesis/1.htm

          • MRH

            @ Steve: Thanks but I already have an online bible I use 😉

            http://www.blueletterbible.org/

            P.S. Did you not read my prior post with all the scriptures? The one which you bashed my efforts on, wasted my time compiling? 😡

      • Bro. Nick Nicholas

        Steve – Please continue to ‘stand strong’ upon “the Rock of our Salvation”, “our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ”.

        The Apostle Paul gave most strong ‘non-politically correct’ warning – which is more and yet ever-more true “that in the last days perilous times shall come”:
        “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
        Which is not another;
        but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
        But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you,
        let him be accursed.
        As we said before, so say I now again,
        If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received,
        let him be accursed.
        (Galatians 1:6-9, KJB)
        .

  • Dr Bob Chapman Ph.D, D.Min, MA, BA

    Hi MRH,

    In your regard to your response to Steve about the Eunuch’s baptism.

    The scripture states that Philip only taught him “Jesus” and mentions nothing about Philip teaching him about baptism and yet — the eunuch requests baptism. Who told him about baptism? He didn’t even understand Isaiah 53.

    Therefore, one cannot teach “Jesus” without teaching baptism.

    Bob

    • MRH

      “Who told him about baptism?”

      Act 8:27-28 KJV – And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.

      Hi Bob: It is assumed that he learned about Johns baptism during his visit to Jerusalem? Which means he had not been thus water baptized before? But was such even necessary being that Johns baptism plan was over and done?

      As I clearly stated above, Philip merely honored his water request. Why would he have refused? But that’s not why the angel sent him to the eunuch. As I recall, the eunuch was the first Gentile to be baptized in the holy spirit? Paul’s ministry began sometime afterward.

      P.S. http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/what-is-true-baptism-book 💡

    • MRH
  • MRH

    What is True Baptism?

    When you read the title of this article and saw the word “baptism,” did you immediately think about water?

    If so, your response is like that of the vast majority of Christians. But the question we must ask is why the word “baptize,” which actually means “to dip” or “to immerse,” has become almost solely associated with water, when, biblically speaking, there are other “liquid” alternatives to be considered?

    Discovering the answer to that question will help us solve a problem that has for centuries caused great division among dedicated and well-meaning Christians. Our goal is to find out what is the “one baptism” prescribed for the Church, as per Ephesians 4:5. The fact that most Christians throughout the centuries have equated baptism with water is very understandable.

    As we will see, water baptism was prescribed under the Mosaic Law. Jesus himself was baptized, and many early Christians practiced water baptism during the first years of the Church. But do the Church Epistles, that section of Scripture specifically addressed to believers living in the Church Administration, which began on the Day of Pentecost and will end with the “Rapture,” call for this practice?

    Scripture shows that the old, ceremonial, outer washing in water prescribed in the Mosaic Law for Israel pointed toward, and has now been superseded by, the new, actual, inner cleansing in holy spirit (the divine nature of God).

    The old water baptism could not, and still cannot, change the heart of a man, but the spirit of the Holy God can revolutionize a person from the inside out and enable him to be like Jesus Christ, his true baptizer.

    If you have been taught the traditional doctrine of water baptism, you may find that what you read in this booklet is more spiritually invigorating and liberating than the belief you now hold, and that it also opens up greater possibilities for more powerful Christian living.

    http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/what-is-true-baptism-book

  • Abigail Sanders

    I have to say Geoffrey, I think you must be very thick skinned…but, this has been one of the most informative and entertaining threads I’ve followed in a long time. Thanks for the opportunity!

    • Over the past 6 years on NTEB I have been called every name in the book, and have received emails from thousands of people all over the world. I am here to teach the Bible, help the lost to get saved and show the prodigal the way home. I will always teach Eternal Security, a Pretrib Rapture, and the importance of “rightly dividing” your Bible. If people “get it”, I’ll rejoice, and if they don’t, I will persevere. Only one life, ’twill soon be past, and only whats done for Christ will last.

      • Bro. Nick Nicholas

        Geoffrey Grider – Brother, My comments to you are of Biblical support and encouragement
        – NOT ‘itching your ears’.

        The most refreshing thing that I know in reading your articles is that you have a genuine, sober, and sincere desire is to teach “the truth” as it is written in “the word of the LORD”, the Holy Bible, KJV:
        “Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.
        ~ In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works:
        ~ in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
        Sound speech, that cannot be condemned;
        that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.”
        (Titus 2:6-8, KJB)

        – and that your works are because you are saved:
        “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
        Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works:
        shew me thy faith without thy works,
        ~ and I will shew thee my faith by my works”
        (James 2:17-18, KJB)

        It is my Biblical understanding that we truly are living in “the latter days” when there is an exponential increase of ‘spiritual, deception, and deliberate deceit’:
        Ҧ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land,
        not a famine of bread,
        nor a thirst for water,
        ~ but of hearing the words of the LORD:
        And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD,
        ~ and shall not find it.
        In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.
        They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beer–sheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again.”
        (Amos 8:11-14, KJB)

        ~ Emphasis of “the word of the LORD” is mine – Bro. Nick

      • Barbara Lovett

        Love the work you are doing. I look forward to your teachings straight from the Bible, dividing God’s word in truth. May God’s face continue to shine upon you. And May we all rejoice in the name of our Lord and pray for one another!

        • Bro. Nick Nicholas

          Barbara Lovett – ‘and pray for one another!’ ~ AMEN ! ! !

          May more and more of ‘the true followers of Jesus Christ’ “Put on the whole armour of God” (Eph 6:10-20, KJB)
          ~ and Pray as we are told:
          “Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit,
          and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;”
          (Ephesians 6:18, KJB)
          .

        • Thank you so much! We live in a day and age where people are looking for the excitement of prophecy, but are ignorant of Bible doctrine…

          • Bro. Nick Nicholas

            Geoffrey Grider – Brother – as ‘my second’ Pastor Charles Lawson from Knoxville, TN says – typical Biblical knowledge here in ‘Amerika’ is 35 miles wide, and 1/8 inch deep.
            My closest ‘brother-in-Christ Jesus’ is an itinerant, non-denominational Pastor in Kenya – he says it is the same there.
            A street Evangelist from New Zealand says it is the same there.

            My Biblical understanding is that this tragic Biblical ignorance is the ‘in process fulfillment’ of that which was Prophesied over 2,500 years about “these latter days” that the entire world is now in – RIGHT NOW – TODAY

            My Biblical understanding is that there is a dual warning about the lack of ‘the Preaching/Teaching’ – AND – of ‘the hearing’ that which is written in “the word of the LORD”:

            “Her prophets are light and treacherous persons:
            her priests have polluted the sanctuary,
            they have done violence to the law.”
            (Zephaniah 3:4, KJB)

            Ҧ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land,
            NOT a famine of bread, NOR a thirst for water,
            – BUT OF HEARING THE WORDS OF THE LORD:
            And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east,
            they shall run to and fro to seek THE WORD OF THE LORD,
            – AND shall not find it.
            In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.
            They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beer–sheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again.”
            (Amos 8:11-14 [KJB])

            – CAPITALization and emphasis of “the word of the LORD” is mine – Bro. Nick

        • Amen, and thank you for standing with us in these last days!

      • I agree with you on Eternal Security, a Pretrib Rapture, and rightly dividing your bible. But, this is the first time I have heard about God making a 2nd plan because of the Jew’s last rejection of Jesus when Stephen preached it, I am not saying you are wrong, but, what about us Gentiles—–do you mean none of us would have been saved? It is hard for me to follow what you are saying. Could you explain it to me what, exactly, would have happened if the Jews would have accepted the teaching about Jesus being the, waited for, messiah way back then? Thank you.

  • MRH

    In the Introduction, I mentioned what Jesus said in John 8:32, which is that if one knows (experientially) the truth, it will set him free. The obvious converse to that succinct truth is that if one believes and practices error, it puts him in some degree of bondage. Scripture makes it clear that each human being lives in a war zone. There is a war in progress between God and Satan, and the chief weapon used by both sides is words. God gives us His Word, and Satan counterfeits and distorts it.

    God wants people to know the truth and be free, and Satan wants to obscure the truth from people and keep them in bondage. His goal is always to “steal, kill, and destroy” (John 10:10). One way he does this is by blinding people’s minds to “the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ” (2 Cor. 4:4). If it is true that water baptism is irrelevant to Christians and not prescribed in Scripture for us, then any teaching to the contrary must have its roots in error. Relevant questions to ask might be: “Why would the Enemy want Christians to think that water baptism is either required or pertinent?” “What is he trying to steal from us?”

    I think part of the answer to those questions lies in the fact that a chief element of the “gospel of the glory of Christ” is that because of the finished work of Jesus Christ, each Christian stands righteous before God by faith alone. There is no particular merit in our faith; there is merit on the part of Jesus Christ in what he accomplished for us. His work made it possible for us to simply trust in him and receive salvation as a free gift, and that goes against the grain of our fallen nature that craves inordinate recognition from God, and from other people, for our good works. Our sin nature also craves ritual as an avenue to feeling good about ourselves before God and others. By emphasizing the ritual of baptism in water, Satan tries to steal our focus from the fact that salvation and the holy spirit are free gifts acquired by faith.

    In light of what we have seen from the Word of God as to the holy spirit baptism that each person in the Church Administration receives in the gift of salvation, where does that leave water baptism? Biblically, the logical conclusion is that water baptism is at best superfluous and at worst a fleshly work by which one hopes to stand approved before God and people. Is it a sin? No, but it is a sin to teach that water baptism is a requirement for salvation and membership in the Church, which is the Body of Christ. And because God’s Word does not say that it is at all pertinent to or necessary for a Christian, then it must be somehow detrimental to the quality of one’s life to teach him that it is a “symbolic public act” or a “proclamation of faith” prescribed by Scripture.

    Another thing that Satan steals from the Church by the ritual of water baptism is our Christian unity. One needs only to read the history books to see the disunity, dissension, and even wars that have been fought about water baptism. Why so much variation in denominational doctrines about baptism? Because the Church Epistles have no instruction about it. So denominations must make up their own rules and regulations, and then they eventually argue about whose rules are correct. The reason there is no instruction about it in Scripture is that water baptism is “out” and holy spirit baptism is “in,” and the instructions for being baptized into holy spirit are the same as for getting saved, that is, “confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead” (Rom. 10:9).

    In the Law of Moses, there were many regulations about washing and cleansing, but with the baptism in holy spirit it does not matter how you get saved, when you get saved, who got you to the point of salvation (priest or commoner, saint or sinner) or what age you are when you get saved. There is nothing to fight about, everyone is blessed that someone got saved and is now fully immersed in the gift of holy spirit.

    Still another thing that gets stolen from the Church by the distracting focus on water baptism is the witness to the world of a unified Church. This relates to the point above, but it is separate and valid. Jesus said that people would know who his disciples are by their love for one another. Yet, the Protestant Reformation was characterized by the Roman Catholic Church torturing and murdering many people because they did not baptize in the “right way.” For centuries, the Church had propounded infant baptism, and, in the early years of the Reformation, baptism of adults at the time of their conversion to Christ was considered an extreme heresy, even though it is completely accepted today. Those who had the audacity to baptize an adult at the time of his conversion were occasionally punished by death, and sometimes that sentence was carried out by drowning. Alan Eyre writes on the history of the Reformation:

    His Gruningen [a town in Switzerland] brethren and sisters suffered grievously a few months later and many of them were drowned. This method of execution was intended as a mockery of their Baptist practices: Zwingli laconically called it “their third baptism.” [1]

    It is horrifying to modern Christians that good and decent people were drowned simply because they immersed themselves in water when they were adults rather than had water sprinkled on them when they were babies, but that is what happened. Unfortunately, modern Christians are not the only ones horrified. Non-Christians are hardly drawn to Christ by such displays, and even though we are not killing one another over the when’s, why’s, and how’s of baptism today, division in the Church about it has an unfavorable impact. The way to stop the influence of error in the field of baptism is to get back to what the Bible actually says. We must discover what the proper doctrine is, then believe it and practice it. In the case of baptism, that means we leave water baptism behind and focus on the full immersion we have in the gift of holy spirit, with all its inherent potential to empower.

    Let us close this study with a fabulous passage of Scripture that embodies many of the truths we have seen so far. Allow these words of life to wash over your heart as you read.

    Titus 3:3-8
    (3) At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another.
    (4) But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared,
    (5) he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit [holy spirit],
    (6) whom [which] he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior,
    (7) so that, having become justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life [life in the coming age].
    (8) This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.

    Please allow me to offer a perhaps grossly literal rendering of the above verses that I think colloquially captures the truth therein:

    Once upon a time we were out to lunch in the wrong restaurant with no menu. Our street address was “Nowhere.” Unable to find anyone among us to do the job of saving us, God took pity on us and had a Son whom He asked to do it. Being dead in sin, we were unemployed, producing nothing and needing God’s welfare. He picked us up out of the gutter, scrubbed us with His guaranteed-to-whiten cleanser, and rinsed us “throughly” with the living water of His holy spirit that bubbled up through Jesus Christ. He is the fountain through whom God did all this, and now we can always drink all we want. Now we have a clean slate, and we are looking forward to cashing in on our inheritance when Jesus shows up for us. Until the big day, we had best get busy doing all we can to show our gratitude by using what God has given us so that everyone around us can benefit.

    Yes, water is essential for physical life, but not for spiritual life. What is really essential is the living water of God’s gift of holy spirit that the Lord Jesus Christ once received from his Father and now lavishly pours out upon each person who chooses to believe in him. That living water not only gives each Christian life once and for all, but it can also quench our thirst each day as we walk with him through a dry and parched world where countless people are dying of thirst. As the one and only spring of living water, Jesus has poured into our hearts the very life of God.

    Anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord Jesus can experience the absolute proof that this spring is within him and that it will never dry up. Not only is it a spring that guarantees us life in the coming age, it is also a fountain of blessing on a daily basis: a spring of love, joy, peace, guidance, understanding, revelation, wisdom, and healing. As we drink of this living water, we are energized to go forth and lead others to this fountain of life. With the spirit of God in our hearts and the Word of God in our minds and on our lips, we can go to those wasting away in spiritual deserts and guide them to the living water that will truly quench their thirst—the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

    http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/cleanliness-is-next-to-godliness-but-godliness-comes-first

  • edwitness

    Well done MRH,
    That’s the kind of explanation that leaves no room for manipulating the passage because it’s all right there in each passage.
    MARANATHA!
    Blessings:-}

    • MRH

      @ edwitness: True, but was a total waste of my time and effort, likewise with your below reply. Either he is hopelessly deluded, or he’s a troll looking for a battle, or maybe both? Whatever the case, only in the end will he awaken, but it’s gonna be a shocker awakening. And not only for him, but for most Christians. How they blindly followed after false; prophets, teachers, apostles, etc. Sadly their many rewards baskets will be quite empty, as there will be no rewards given out for being stubborn know-it-all fools 😉

  • edwitness

    Steve,
    When Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born of water and of the Spirit He added in the very next verse the definition of water and Spirit. He said “What is born of the flesh is flesh(water) and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit”(self explanatory).
    If this is not the case, and He was only referring to water baptism, then why would He insert the fleshly birth where there was no context for it? Because the flesh birth in vs.6 corresponds to the water birth in vs.5. Just as the Spirit birth in vs.6 corresponds to the Spirit birth in vs.5.
    No one argues that the Spirit birth in vs.s5,6 are the same thing. But, those with the understanding that water birth in vs.5 is referring to water baptism, will argue that the flesh birth in vs.6 has nothing to do with the water birth in vs.5. A very inconsistent method of interpretation.
    Blessings:-}
    Blessings:-}

    • Steve

      “Truly, truly, I saw to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” – John 3:5. Nicodemus realized he was speaking of an adult when he asked “How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus’s focus was on the flesh but Christ’s was on the spirit. Therefore He stressed to Nicodemus the answer to his question. The question is how does this rebirth occur?

      What did Jesus answer? He, a man, must be born of water and the Spirit in order to be born again. Jesus did not say you have to be born into this world before you can be born of the spirit. Did He? The born of water comes after a man is grown which is the question that Nicodemus asked. How can a man be born again?

      Jesus answers his question. There is only one rebirth which consists of two elements the water and the spirit.

      Also see I Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 5:26 and Titus 3:5 for cross references.

      Nicodemus, like many today, still did not comprehend the concept of rebirth asks, “How can these things be?” (John 3:9)

      Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to the apostles that they might receive “all truth” (John 16:13) People being born of the water and the spirit are displayed throughout Acts. Unless one believes that the apostles where not being led by the Holy Spirit, scripture is very clear on what Jesus was telling us.

      • Lee

        Steve I agree with you. You need water baptism in Jesus name and the Holy Spirit.

        Let that be reassurance too.
        I’m not sure why people can’t see it, I’ve been praying for people to see the Truth.

        Acts and the Epistles only magnify what the Gospel had set up for us.

        They are not works, but they usher you in to receive God’s grace. An act of obedience. The apostles received Jesus’ message and what did they do? They went around baptizing. If you says that it’s not needed then they, the very first followers of Jesus got it wrong.

        The Bible is not a lie. Pray that no man deceives you not even yourself. A lot of these sites will have only partial truths or their own interpretation, you must take the time and read the Bible yourself. Pray before you read each time asking the Lord for his interpretation. You’ll get results.

        You will not want to be on earth when it all begins.

        • We are not saved by water baptism, and neither does it “give us the Spirit”. Someone gets all the Holy Spirit they will ever have at the moment of salvation. Baptism is just an outward sign of an inward change. In this dispensation, we are not saved by Acts 2:38, we are saved by Ephesians 2:8,9 (KJV).

  • Dr Bob Chapman Ph.D, D.Min, MA, BA

    Heather, it is bad out there. Maybe we need this.

    A TIME FOR ELISHAS

    Every day the world relentlessly pushes its evil agenda through the media and in its wake, Christians and Christian values are being swept aside. This is not new; it’s been active since the bride of Christ was revealed two thousand years ago, (Rev.12)

    In the midst of this current tide of relentless sin, I find myself becoming increasingly concerned for the eventual destiny of the sinners. Yes, I could turn away from their need of salvation and enter a monastery somewhere but, when I consider how God views the present, satanic, forces raging against His elect I am moved with godly urgency, just as Jesus was, to seek and save these lost souls and bring them to the marriage feast of the Lamb, (Matt. 22).

    But how do we stem this current, raging tide of evil? Well – we need an army of Elishas – not to burn sinners off the face of the earth – but an army that stands fearlessly, acts fearlessly and loves fearlessly in order to bring sinners to their senses spiritually just as Elisha did with the sinners before him, see (2Kings 6:13-23):-

    He knew God and heaven’s multitude were with him. (6:16-17)
    He knew God would answer him. (6:18)
    He knew where to lead the sinners to once God gave them into his hands. (6:19-20)
    He knew God’s compassionate heart for sinners. (6:21)
    He knew how to save sinners. (6:22)
    He knew how to revive the saved. (6:23)

    Those who come against us today in an attempt to overwhelm us need to know that we – like Elisha:-

    Know God, Jesus Christ, and heaven’s host.
    Know God answers our prayers.
    Know the way that leads to life.
    Know compassion.
    Know the way of salvation.
    Know how to revive saved souls.

    Blessings
    Bob

  • edwitness

    Steve,
    Jesus says water in vs.5 and explains what that water birth is in vs.6 when he says “that which is born of the flesh is flesh”. Flesh corresponds with water in the two verses as Spirit corresponds with spirit in those same two verses. Context, context, context. It’s so simple. It’s right there IN the passage.

    In baptism we are performing a work. Something we DO. We have to get ready. We have to go down into the water. We allow ourselves to be dunked. But in God’s salvation we are not saved in any way by works of any kind. Not done by Jesus or anyone else. It is a free gift that in God’s plan no one would earn or merit. The parable of the King who would take account of His servants is a perfect example of this. Mt.18:21-35. No one paid the debt. Not the King nor His Son. No one. It was simply forgiven freely.
    Only when the servant would not forgive as he had been forgiven was he placed in a prison. A prison of unforgiveness. See Mt.6:14,15. One he would remain in until he paid(forgave his fellow servant) the entire debt.
    So that’s why we are told that when we bring our offering to God and remember our brother has something against us, we must put down the offering and go make peace with our brother first. Forgiveness. Without it God will not forgive us either.

    When we trust in Jesus we receive the Holy Spirit and are born again. This is the baptism of Jesus. Mt.3:11; Mark1:8; Luke3:16. One that is of the Spirit and fire. Water baptism expresses to others what has already taken place in us beforehand.
    Blessings:-}

    • MRH

      @ edwitness: Water baptism in the gospels was the transition between the material and spiritual covenants. It is neither required nor recommended now. Pentecost was the intended end of the ancient water ritual. However the practice didn’t end due to confusion factor, nor did following the law end. And that’s why both things continue unto this very day. However there is no value in following either, as Jesus fulfilled the entire law, including ceremonial washing. As Paul states…

      Rom 15:4 KJV – For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

      Note: Aforetime indicates before Pentecost, and that would include water baptism and the rest of the OT law of commandments.

  • Russell Lang

    Just a simple man. I see from the above that a whole lot of different views on Baptism, water Baptism Baptism of the Holy Spirit etc. My suggestion is simply this. If in doubt, get to the water and ask some believers to baptise you, pray thank you Lord for your forgiveness and be baptised in water. Get out of the water, get on your knees, ask those believers that are with you to lay hands upon you for the baptism in the Holy Spirit and thank God for that.

    Then go and preach the Gospel to all men.

    Simple and you can’t get it wrong and you don’t waste time in semantics and fruitless debate. God Bless you all.

    • MRH

      @Russell Lang: The problem is if we follow false doctrine then we preach the same, and that is not good as it distorts the faith for others. As for salvation, the below scripture declares it all 🙂

      Jhn 3:16 KJV – For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

      Rom 10:9 KJV – That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

      1Jo 5:1 KJV – Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

      P.S. Is there even any mention of ‘baptism’ in above verses? That should be a clue that water baptism has nothing to do with salvation 😉

  • edwitness

    Another big amen to that MRH.
    Blessings:-}

    • MRH

      @ edwitness: I can’t figure out the logic with today’s believer 🙄 It seems the many false churches and false doctrines have blinded them 😥

      Luk 21:8 KJV – And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

      Act 20:29-30 KJV – For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

      1Ti 4:1-2 KJV – Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

      P.S. The problem is if we follow false doctrine then we preach the same, and that is not good as it distorts the faith for others 🙁

  • Mike

    I have had people say they didn’t expect the rapture for some time yet, because there would be a second “outpouring” of the Holy Spirit and God would add millions to the Church, the body of Christ. My position to this argument reflects that of the author of this article: that the “second rain” will take place on the Triubulation Saints after the Church is raptured out of here. The second outpouring is upon those left behind! Some will be beheaded for the Witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and some will make it to the end and go on to populate the Millenium.

    • MRH

      Mike: The tribulation is NOT the wrath 😉

      • edwitness

        MRH,
        Great video and teaching on the wrath of God and when it happens. But, the “rapture” is not keyed to God’s wrath, as this man teaches. It is keyed to the revealing of the AC. 2nd Thes.2:7,8.

        The church(he who lets) is removed before “that wicked” is revealed. It is the church that has been given the ministry of reconciliation. And that ministry is the power of the Holy Spirit that is holding back the revealing of AC. The church leaves and the Holy Spirit remains to continue to save those who will be saved during the tribulation.

        Another passage to look at for this is Mt.16:18. Jesus said that the gates of Hell will not prevail against His church. But, we see that in Rev.13:7 the AC makes war with the saints and overcomes them. So the tribulation saints are overcome by the AC. Hell wins for the time, times, and 1/2 of time against the tribulation saints.

        Unless I am mistaken, for the statement Jesus made in Mt.16:18 to be true, the church age saints must not be on earth when the AC is in power. Otherwise, they will be overcome by AC(gates or power of Hell).
        Blessings:-}

        • MRH

          MRH,
          Great video and teaching on the wrath of God and when it happens. But, the “rapture” is not keyed to God’s wrath, as this man teaches. It is keyed to the revealing of the AC. 2nd Thes.2:7,8.

          @ edwitness: I don’t agree with all Steven Anderson preaches, but I thought video good enough to prove some things. As for my own end time beliefs, they keep evolving, as new knowledge arrives.

          One problem the church has is the extreme focus on the AC, but while somewhat undermining the FP. However the ‘man of sin’ is NOT the AC, nor the FP, though both are involved. To understand how, one must explore beyond the bible! Are you ready for the journey?

          Hint: The ‘man of sin’ is not human as are we. He is also the god of this world! And he was once the brightest star in heaven, till he fell! He is also the alien king! So are you eager unto more mysteries and wonders? Or do you wish to stay in the safe matrix?

          P.S. Email me: mkhodge@sonic.net if desired? Too difficult conversing in NTEB comment box, plus constant interference!

      • Dan

        I have a good explanation for belief in a pre-trib rapture for this Reverend (and anyone else)… Why is the church mentioned 19 times in chapters 1-3 in Revelation and not mentioned 1 time from
        chapters 4 – 19 ? It is in these chapters Gods great wrath is poured out and surely the church ;if it were on earth would be mentioned.

        Also the passage (he who has an ear let him hear what the spirit says to the churches ) repeated 7 times in chapters 2 and 3 . But, in chapter 13 we see the same warning with out mention of the church
        (if anyone has an ear let him hear).

        Again I believe this is another indication that the church is not on earth during Gods wrath regardless of when you think the tribulation is.

        • MRH

          chapters 4 – 19 ? It is in these chapters Gods great wrath is poured out .. Again I believe this is another indication that the church is not on earth during Gods wrath regardless of when you think the tribulation is.

          Dan: The wrath is not mentioned until Rev 6 (seals), the latter end. Likewise with trumpets, no ‘wrath’ mention until Rev 11. Then in Rev 12 Satan’s wrath is noted. Then in Rev 16 Gods wrath is poured out on the remaining world. The wrath period is divided. The first part is Satan, the last part God. So yes the church does escape all wrath effect. Scripture declares.

          But the church does not escape any tribulation effect. In fact there is not one single scripture which states otherwise. Furthermore, the mark of the beast does not occur during tribulation but during Satan’s wrath. Which is also the harvest period. The church is raptured just prior to the end, or day of the Lord beginning. Now consider the mentions of ‘wrath’ below 💡

          Rev 6:16-17 KJV – And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

          Rev 11:18 KJV – And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

          Rev 12:12 KJV – Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

          Rev 14:8, 10, 19 KJV – And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. … The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: … And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

          Rev 15:1, 7 KJV – And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. … And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

          Rev 16:1, 19 KJV – And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. … And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

          Rev 18:3 KJV – For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

          Rev 19:15 KJV – And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

          • Dan

            Mark you didn’t address my point about the church.

            Revelation chapters 1 – 3 present
            Revelation chapters 4 -19 not present

            Any thoughts on why God would not mention the church 1 time between chapters 4 -19 and mention it 19 times before chapter 4?

        • MRH

          Dan: The reason the word ‘church’ is not mentioned past Rev 3 is because that vision regards the 7 churches only. And as with all the visions, the churches are time segmented. We are in the the time of the 7th church now, afterwards is the rapture. However Christians are also saints, and also of the bride.

          So in essence the church is not directly addressed past Rev 3, but is still implied concerning the tribulation saints (not wrath martyrs). Also the tribulation is for the saints only, not for the world. It will be basically a time of great persecution, of which we are on the fringes even now with ISIS and Islamic terror. But I believe that God has a future secret plan, and that he will use the church to deliver lost Israel. And after holy witness task is complete the rapture prevails, and the end begins.

          Anyway, we’ll know more as the prophecies continue to unfold. At the present time there is no way to assess things. However Francis will be addressing congress this September, of which might be of prophetic significance.. but time will tell as it always does 😉

          • Dan

            Mark even if your using Dispensational theology the meaning would still be the same. And no it is not implied that the church is there even though its not mentioned.
            ( sorry but that doesn’t work brother Mark).

            Still from the way revelation reads pre seems to be the most likely .

            Yes we’ll see you are right on that.

            blessings

          • MRH

            Still from the way revelation reads pre seems to be the most likely

            Dan: Only if you tie tribulation and wrath together as one 🙁

            As for rapture time frame, below scripture holds the key 😉

            1Co 15:23-24 KJV – But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits [JESUS]; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming [RAPTURE]. Then cometh the end [WRATH], when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

  • James

    Baptism is very well modeled by the pickle. It gets dipped, but it also changes state. It’s not the same just because it was dipped.

    And why isn’t the Ethiopian eunuch a Jew?

    • MRH

      @ James:

      Baptism is very well modeled by the pickle. It gets dipped, but it also changes state. It’s not the same just because it was dipped.

      It is the Spirit which changes us within, not water 😉

      And why isn’t the Ethiopian eunuch a Jew?

      Because he was not from Judea or Jerusalem 😉

      Question: If water baptism is a salvation requirement, then please explain below scripture? 💡

      Jhn 3:16 KJV – For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

      Rom 10:9 KJV – That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

      1Jo 5:1 KJV – Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

      P.S. Is there even any mention of ‘baptism’ in above verses? That should be a clue that water baptism has nothing to do with salvation 😉

  • edwitness

    MRH,
    Russel should have said, when in doubt get in the word for instruction from God. Don’t just do something for insurance purposes.
    Blessings:-}

    • MRH

      “Don’t just do something for insurance purposes”

      @ edwitness: God knows our hearts, and judges us thus. We can’t assure our hearts holy, by doing rituals of any kind. In any case, because we are flesh, we can’t understand spirit. Also salvation is just the first step in the holy game. Afterwards it’s lifetime sanctification, with many ups and downs. Also full salvation effect is not given until rapture event. That is when we receive for the things done for the kingdom, be they good or evil. Sadly we still are sinners, no matter our holiness endeavors.

  • Russell

    I don’t recall saying anything about insurance. Perhaps I should clarify. The bible says very clearly that we should be baptized and we shall receive the Holy Spirit. With examples in the book of Act “through the laying on of hands”. My issue was we don’t need the debate just do it. I just didn’t say by the Book. It’s actually an act of obedience to a clear instruction, with a great reward, The Holy Spirit.

  • That was odd!

    Gentiles have always had a place in HaShem’s plan. There were Gentiles that left Egypt with the Israelites. Ruth, a Moabite, is in Yeshua’s direct linage.

    The way that I understand it, is that the Jews were called to be a people set apart and holy so that there would be an acceptable people for the Messiah to be born into. That is the whole idea behind the laws of Kashrut, (kosher); keeping the holy separate from the profane.

    The scriptures say; “God is not a respecter of persons'” meaning, He doesn’t play favorites. His plan is not preferential, it is sequential; “to the Jew first, then to the Greek.” This clearly includes both Jews and Gentiles in His plan of salvation. “There is one flock and one Shepard.”

  • edwitness

    MRH,
    How could you possibly believe that “the tribulation is for the saints only”? Or at all for that matter? It is called the “time of JACOB’S trouble”. That is Israel. There are 144,000 Israelites sealed for the job that the church is doing now. They will be evangelizing the world during the tribulation. Not the church. We will be gone, praise God.
    Blessings:-}

    • MRH

      How could you possibly believe that “the tribulation is for the saints only”? Or at all for that matter?

      @ edwitness: Because scripture declares things 😉

      Rev 13:7 KJV – And it was given unto him to make war with the saints [persecute], and to overcome them [conquer]: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

      The confusion is the words ‘war’ and ‘overcome’. The question I ask, is this tribulation effect not already occurring? Consider how; God, Jesus, and Christianity is being deleted from society, and replaced with; Satan, Allah, and Islam? In essence the church is being corrupted and destroyed, and the dark trend does not end until rapture. It’s the ‘falling away’ effect, and it climaxes with departure of the church. Afterwards the wicked is revealed unto the world, followed by hell on earth. NWO finally born!

      As for the 144,000, it’s symbolic, and deals with the 12 tribes of Israel (future saved Jews). Also note there are two groups; Rev 7, Rev 14, and they are not the same peoples 😉

      P.S. We saints still die by the flesh, but we can’t die in the spirit now 😀

  • edwitness

    MRH,
    Jacob is Israel, right? And the tribulation period is referred to as the time of Jacob’s trouble, right? Since Jacob is Israel you could say it this way. The time of Israel’s trouble.
    So, unless you are a replacement theology believer, the tribulation is for Israel and not the Church, right?
    Seems pretty clear to me.
    Blessings:-}

    • MRH

      the tribulation is for Israel and not the Church, right?

      @ edwitness: Yes, but that doesn’t mean the church will be gone then. According to scripture, the tribulation focus will be in Israel and is a holy war. But tribulation effect will be felt everywhere to varying degrees. I believe that WWI began a series of judgments or tribulations unto the world. For certain WWII ended with a big bang, plus the rebirth of Israel. Also the beginning of the nuclear age, and resulting later disasters; Chernobyl, Fukishema. Both events of which still have impact.

      One thing is certain, the focus has been mostly in Israel and the Mideast since WWII; Iraq, Iran, Egypt, etc. However America and Europe have been under persecution attack as well. 911 was a judgment call on America, followed by Obama, to accelerate the fall. Have you not been following global prophetic news? To understand the big picture, one must tie things together. Bible prophecy and conspiracy theory go hand in hand.

  • edwitness

    Amen Dan,
    America does not fit the Rev.17 model. If America is destroyed it won’t be because it is Babylon. It wil be because it does not fit with the new world order. But I don’t see that happening because America is leading the way into the new world order. Not holding it back.
    Blessings:-}

    • MRH

      @ edwitness: Babylon represents the future NWO (see my above to Dan) 😉

  • edwitness

    MRH,
    The point is that there would be no tribulation period to come except for Israel. It is a chastening time for them. AC is to be accepted by Israel to fulfill Jesus’ statement that “…another will come in his own name, and him you will receive”. John5:43.
    Of course the whole unbelieving world will be involved. Who would gather to make war with Israel if not the unbelieving Gentiles? And the final gov’t will be world wide. It will be the 10 global regions that the Club of Rome created at it’s meetings in the 1960’s. With the 10 kings who as yet have no kingdom.
    I do not believe we are seeing the tribulation events and apocoliptic riders now. The events you described are still the birth pains. They are getting very close together though.
    The church will be gone with Jesus before it starts.
    But Israel is THE reason for the great tribulation. It is the time of Jacob’s(Israel’s) trouble. The rest of the unbelieving world stays because they rejected Jesus and is forced to make a decision too.
    Blesings:-}

    • MRH

      @ edwitness: Just offering my point of view in matters below 🙂

      I do not believe we are seeing the tribulation events and apocoliptic riders now.

      Oh, but I must disagree. Revelation is a book of symbolic visions which are sequentially ordered and time segmented. And it is a book not meant for the causal Christian. Even bible scholars can’t accurately decipher the book, though many have tried and others keep trying in vain. Also Revelation ties into older end time prophecies.

      The events you described are still the birth pains. They are getting very close together though.

      The tribulation will be of and like the birth pains, though specific and focused unto Israel and the Jews.

      Luk 21:20-22 KJV – And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

      Notice the focus factor? During tribulation, Israel will be a major war zone. In a sense tribulation will be similar to the ancient sieges unto the Jews by varied armies; Babylon, Rome, etc. The difference is that tribulation will be worse and plus the final tribulation. After tribulation comes the ultimate horror before the millennium, called the; end, harvest, wrath, day of the Lord. A time of cataclysmic events and global bloodshed!

      The church will be gone with Jesus before it starts.

      Pre-trib is a wonderful idea, but I’m not certain correct. The popular theory contradicts too much scripture, all the trib theories are flawed but in different ways. However the bible does not give specifics.

      But Israel is THE reason for the great tribulation. It is the time of Jacob’s(Israel’s) trouble.

      True, as it will be the hard tool which wakes up the deluded Jews unto salvation. Like waking up to the smell of smoke, only to discover your house is ablaze (tribulation)! But the rescue folk have already arrived (salvation)!

      The rest of the unbelieving world stays because they rejected Jesus and is forced to make a decision too.

      Of course, as only those whom are born of God are delivered, and unsaved Jews and Gentiles are not included. Jesus himself stated (addressing a Jew); “Ye must be born again”. And Paul declared Jews and Gentiles as one in the church.

      P.S. Many folk mistake tribulation as wrath, but they are totally separate and different things or events. Tribulation is still of man’s design and rule, but wrath is of Gods design and rule. Only from a surface aspect of course, as everything at the root is either of God or Satan. Anyway, when the third temple rises give me a call. And then we can discuss ‘trib’ topic in better light 😉

    • MRH

      Of course the whole unbelieving world will be involved. Who would gather to make war with Israel if not the unbelieving Gentiles? And the final gov’t will be world wide. It will be the 10 global regions that the Club of Rome created at it’s meetings in the 1960’s. With the 10 kings who as yet have no kingdom.

      @ edwitness: Consider my below thoughts on matters 💡

      Rev 11:1-2 KJV – And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

      Consider that Iran intends to blow Israel off the map? Also America now hates Israel, and I believe also China? Not sure with Russia though, and other civilized nations. As scripture states.. ‘And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh’. I’d say that prophecy is being fulfilled even as we speak? The question is, what ignites the fire? Is it not the ‘abomination of desolation’ event? Which I strongly suspect will be of NWO design 😉

      As for the 10 kings prophecy, it’s nearly complete. The last remaining element is the NAU. Which presently is still but a conspiracy theory. All the others have web sites, and are forming.

      The North American Union (NAU) is a theoretical economic and political union of Canada, Mexico, and the United States. The concept is loosely based on the European Union, occasionally including a common currency called the Amero or the North American Dollar. A union of the North American continent, sometimes extending to Central and South America, has been the subject of academic concepts for over a century, as well as becoming a common trope in science fiction. One reason for the difficulty in realizing the concept is that individual developments in each region have failed to prioritize a larger union.

      Some form of union has been discussed or proposed in academic, business, and political circles for decades. However, government officials from all three nations say there are no plans to create a North American Union and that no agreement to do so has been signed. The formation of a North American Union has been the subject of various conspiracy theories.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Union

      Below excerpt from my Babylon page, which has info links on all 10 😉

      The seven continents are also now being divided into ten globalized regions (kingdoms), by the UN (Club Of Rome); ASEAN, APEC, AU, UNASUR, EU, SICA, CSTO, CCASG, SAARC, NAU. Which I believe are represented by the ten horns of the beast (And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings). Globalization biblically defined: (These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast).

      http://aeroventure.com/REVELATION/MYSTERY-BABYLON.htm

  • edwitness

    MRH,
    By that time we will be long gone. No need for discussion then. Because you will know even as you are known.
    Blessings:-}

  • edwitness

    MRH,
    Can you name the 10 kings that rule in the 10 regions? I sure can’t. So I think the world is a ways off from that fulfillment. Sometime during the tribulation.
    I definitely agree with you that the 10 regions are drawn up. But the practical application of their authority has yet to come to the fore.
    But none of this will be able to happen because the church is still holding back the real evil that must possess these rulers. Keep the faith and occupy until He comes to take us with Him to the marriage feast.
    Blessings:-}

    • MRH

      Can you name the 10 kings that rule in the 10 regions?

      @ edwitness: I gave you their names, do you not understand the symbolism? Again, the 10 symbolic kings are (in no certain order); ASEAN, APEC, AU, UNASUR, EU, SICA, CSTO, CCASG, SAARC, NAU.

      Tip: A region (America, Mexico, Canada) represents a kingdom, and an ID (NAU) represents a king. I hope you didn’t think they would be according to peoples names (real kings)? In any case, the 10 kingdoms are not complete, but they will be soon according to things. It all ties into Agenda 21, and sustainable development garbage. The ‘stacked cities’ are also being built, for the future NWO slaves (chipped populace). Research stuff and learn 💡 😉

  • edwitness

    Allen,
    You are correct. It is both. The statue in Nebucadnezer’s dream had feet of iron and clay mixed. And has 10 toes. The 10 toes are 5 each from the east and west parts of the Roman Empire. But this time it will encompass the whole earth. The 10 kings will come from these areas and will rule over the whole earth when given their region during the tribulation. Rev.17.
    Blessings:-}

  • edwitness

    MRH,
    I was not asking for the kingdoms/regions. I asked for the kings. Currently there are no rulers over these regions.
    But, I know there will be soon.
    Blessings:-}

  • edwitness

    MRH,
    I forgot to say that I do believe they are people names that are the kings in those regions. Kings are people, not things.
    Blessings:-}

  • MRH

    Currently there are no rulers over these regions .. Kings are people, not things.

    @ edwitness: Agreed that kingdoms have people rulers, however I don’t think the prophecy relates to individual people. It’s just like with ancient empires, they often had many rulers in succession. And this is even evident in Daniels kingdom experience.

    As for the 10 kings structure, it will likely be of NWO design. Just like every county and city has a counsel or committee behind it. Legislative branches and such. My guess is that the 10 regions will be run by the UN, as the latter is the hub of the NWO. With appointed committees for each region. Even the UN group itself consists of many fluctuating members, and the UN wheel governs all of societies elements; education, finance, agriculture, etc. Anyway, the NWO vision is huge and confusing unto the common folk such as we.

  • MRH

    I believe you are right, a world system it will be….it’s funny because scholars debate whether the beast is islam or catholic church – it’s both….the crescent moon symbols are from babylon and both of these systems have those

    @ allen: To understand the Beast, one must understand the NWO, and the occult Illuminati. They are all one and the same entities, and very confusing to common folk such as we. See my above comment, as it vaguely details a few things.

    P.S. Satan’s kingdom is vast and mysterious, filled with esoteric symbolism. I’m only partially learned in occult stuff. To get a brief glimpse into the mystery, watch below short video 💡

    https://youtu.be/0qGstcJocPs

  • Good article. I certainly appreciate this site. Stick with it!

    My blog post chapter 13 bankruptcy – Marilou,

  • Pete

    //The Church is “Plan B”, it was always “Plan B”. God was fully ready, as Peter preached, to pull the plug without ever creating a gentile Church. Peter was 100% right when he declared Joel’s prophecy to be coming true, but the rejection of Stephen’s preaching by the Jews stopped that timeclock.//

    What. A. Load. Of. Horsepucky.

    It came to pass 100% at Pentecost, just like Peter said it did.

    Wow. No wonder you dispensationalists are so confused.

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