The Bible Believers Guide To The False Revival Of The Last Days

On this episode of Rightly Dividing, we examine the current waves of 'revival' sweeping across America, compare what is taking place there to Bible prophecy, and see if it is from the Holy Spirit, or from the Devil.

Is it the Holy Spirit giving an outpouring of revival, or is it from some place else?

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” 2 Timothy 4:3,4 (KJV)

CLICK HERE TO LISTEN LIVE when the show starts tonight at 9:00PM EST!

The Bible never once says that, in the last days of the Church Age, there will be revival. In fact, it says the opposite. It says that people will grow cold, reject sound doctrine, and begin to surround themselves with false teachers telling them exciting things that tickle their ears. Jesus Himself said that the last Church before the Rapture, the Laodicean Church of our time, will be focused only on money and prosperity and boot Jesus to the curb. But don’t let a silly trifling thing like the authority of the King James Bible stop you from having fake revival anyway. This seems to be the stance of the New Apostolic Reformation cult movement.



On this episode of Rightly Dividing, we examine the current waves of ‘revival’ sweeping across America, compare what is taking place there to Bible prophecy, and see if it is from the Holy Spirit, or from the Devil.

CLICK HERE TO LISTEN LIVE when the show starts tonight at 9:00PM EST!


NTEB is run by end times author and editor-in-chief Geoffrey Grider. Geoffrey runs a successful web design company, and is a full-time minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. In addition to running NOW THE END BEGINS, he has a dynamic street preaching outreach and tract ministry team in Saint Augustine, FL.
  • With all due respect, whether people choose to repent or not, what happens to our discipling if we are not earnestly hoping and praying for revival leading to true repentance at this critical time? Just what stone should we leave unturned?

    • Where does Paul command us to pray for national revival? The Bible does say repeatedly that we need to personally revive ourselves in our walk with the Lord Jesus on a daily basis. But national revival? Tune in TONIGHT to take part in this much needed Bible study.

      • Marco g

        Please pray for our nation Ecuador. I live in Ecuador and major cities on the coastline are destroyed. There is little international media coverage on this. Its a major catastrophe. Please pray for Ecuador!!! God bless you all.

        • Cristina

          Praying for Ecuador

      • Deborah

        Glad you are addressing this topic, Brother Geoffrey. Since Paul told us to ‘set our affections on things above’, I try to keep that my priority — not an earthly revival of anything (including the church on earth). I believe we are to have compassion and pray for others to get saved, but my affection/desire is for things above.

      • To gRider

        National Revivals are common in the Bible. Even in the book of Acts 1000s are saved at a time. I don’t think you can speak in authority Geoff on these matters without attending a meeting or experience which presence is there. I am warning you as my brother to stop stirring up the body…

        “Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.”
        ‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:10-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

      • Pete

        Geoffrey, you have no right whatsoever to claim we live in the “Laodicean” church age. Where does Paul tell us we can know that? Where does John say that? Or Jesus?

        The Bible doesn’t say to pray for national revival (we aren’t OT Israel). But it does speak quite plainly about praying for each other (James 5:16, Ephesians 6:18), for others (1 Timothy 2:1), for the lost and for our leaders (1 Timothy 2:1-4). Doing so might result in revival.

        Again, you preach these things based solely on your own interpretation that we live at the end of history, that Jesus is coming any day now, so what’s the point of doing anything??? Exactly the problem with your dispensationalism. Or should I call it dispenSENSATIONALism?

    • Marco g

      Massive earthquake in ecuador. Catastrophe!!!

      • DC
      • I did pray for ecuador for revival and provision and for the leadership to be redeemed and sensative to the needs. i have been listening to O.T. Bible recordings especially the prophets: the number of plagues and punishments God asserts to those that have turned from HIM are numerous; the hebrews had turned to popular pagonism, perversion, idol worship, and money centered lives… as even G-D’s patience ran thin he promises over throw, distruction of thier cities even the temple they pride in but do not take to heart what is taught there; as well he promises they will be dragged away by forien armies and be used as slaves in distant nations! this was befor JESUS came to save through self sacrifice. in this age the world has heard the Gospel many have accepted salvation through Jesus and have since turned to perversion, occult pagonism money love. After what Jesus suffered to make heaven within reach do you think G-D will deal any little less sternly with the turn coats of this era then He did with the Hebrews of the old testiment days. i say the Father has every right to really pound the “church agers” as we have had Jesus which the early jews did not. even with salvation made simple through suffering with Jesus most have left the Bible chrstian faith for false doctrin paths calling themselves christianity. stop pretending in arrogance that its o.k. for you, G-D knows the numbers of the hair on your head, and your thoughts, you didnt get away with anything and yes you also will be judged.

  • Dr. Love

    Id really love to share this article with many Christians I know…

    • Be bold and do it anyway! 🙂

      • Pete

        Geoffrey writes:

        //If Jesus is “reigning now”, then He isn’t doing so well against the Devil who is winning at the moment.//

        No, the devil already lost at the cross. At least, that’s what the Bible says: (Heb 2:14)” …that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;”

        //What kind of King allows unchecked lawlessness, wickedness and perversion to increase?//

        This is the same vain argument mankind could use since Day 1. First of all, it’s your observation that wickedness is increasing, worldwide. Certainly in the USA we have seen immorality increase in SOME areas (it has decreased in others. Like slavery for example). But Solomon himself stated it is foolish for people to think the past days were better than present days (Ecc 7:10).

        Secondly, we should not allow our fallen human mind to overrule what the Bible clearly says. You might as well ask why a holy God allows wickedness at all, ever? Is God in control or not? If He is, why did He allow Satan to tempt Eve? Why did He allow man to get so wicked in Noah’s day that He eventually destroyed the earth with water?

        //My Jesus will not be reigning until exactly when my King James Bible says He will be reigning, during the 1,000 Year Reign in Jerusalem.//

        Rev 20 says nothing about the reign of Jesus on earth for 1000 years. It says the MARTYRS reign WITH Christ 1000 years. The reign of Jesus Christ is forever, not just 1000 years, and MY Jesus is reigning now:

        Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (ALL power….present tense….2000 years ago)

        Phl 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
        Phl 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (that’s every name in heaven AND EARTH.)

        Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
        Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

        All of these verses were present tense when they were written 1900+ years ago, they are just as true today.

        And your rebuttal to God’s explicit words? “I don’t see it.” Good luck with that. And you “rightly divide”?????

        • When Jesus reigns it says He will rule with a “rod of iron”….show me that right now. Anywhere.

          • Pete

            Geoffrey, I notice as usual that you do nothing with the verses I quoted that explicitly state that Jesus is King of kings and Lord of lords, over heaven AND earth, right now, today. You say nothing. You just throw more protests out there. And of course, once again you seek proof in the natural. Scripture doesn’t really mean much, huh? Do you trust your natural human reasoning Geoffrey? Or the Bible?

            First we have to define what “ruling with a rod of iron” means. It doesn’t mean that Jesus will sit on a throne with a scepter (made of iron) and beat people into submission with it, forcing them to worship. We should get our definitions of idiom from the Bible itself, comparing scripture with scripture.

            The phrase appears for the first time in Psalm 2, speaking of the heathen before God: “Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.” It speaks of destroying the enemies of God. Not forcing them to bow. In Revelation 2 we see it again:

            Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them (nations) with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

            We see that this speaks of Jesus breaking the empires of the world, just like it was prophesied in Daniel 2. Daniel 2 shows the 4 kingdoms of the Gentiles who were smashed by the stone that is Christ:

            Dan 2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
            Dan 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

            The stone “growing to become a great mountain” suggests a progression of the kingdom of Jesus Christ. It won’t happen overnight, it is happening now, through His cross. Jesus doesn’t win by stabbing people with swords. He wins through His own Word (Rev 19).

            The 4 kingdoms of Daniel 2 have been destroyed. Jesus is reigning now, putting down all enemies:

            1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

          • Sorry, but Jesus literally ruling on David’s Throne from Jerusalem is a central doctrine in BOTH testaments. Until you can see that, really not much point in debating with you.

          • Pete

            Can you explain what Jesus meant in Matthew 28:18, and what Paul meant in Phil 2:9-10 and Ephesians 1:20-21?

          • Pete

            I guess you can’t.

        • Jimmy

          Rev 11:15 “And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.” That’s future. Adam lost it, Satan won it, Jesus will take it.


  • Laura L

    Geoffrey, Todd Friel talks about the New Apostolic Reformation in his book Judge Not. It seems the crazy antics of this movement(like feathers or gold dropping down on people) are deceiving many, just like Paul warns in II Timothy. Believers who lack discernment could end up falling for it. Jesus warns about this in Matthew 24:24:
    “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.”

    • jimmyb

      If they fall for it, then they are not believers. If they are looking for anything that tickles the ears or any of their other senses, they are not Christians, and know nothing about the Bible, nor do they want to. Does not the Bible state that they came from us, but were not of us. Meaning, they are fake Christians, calling themselves Christian. Do not make the mistake as to call them believers or Christians. They chose their path willingly, even when it is not to be found in the Bible. That’s called willful deception. Praying for them is akin to praying for a Stalin, a Hitler, or an Obama; it won’t work. Your prayer is amiss. God sends us the leaders we deserve. And since God, who cannot lie, told us that there WILL be those who are deceived by it, then it is already a done deal, and there is nothing you can do to change that.

      As for Matthew 24:24, it is only saying that the wonders performed by the devil’s crew, professing Christians included, will look real to those people, (Hollywood special effects), because they WANT to see signs and wonders, but true Christians should have the power of discernment, and should not be fooled because they should know the truth. IF they are deceived, then they might not have been true believers. I think of the scripture where he will bring fire down from heaven in the sight of the beast and it deceives those who see it. Well, nowhere in the Bible does it state that prior to Jesus’ return, will Jesus bring down fire from heaven, so anything like that happening, should tell EVERY SINGLE Christian out there, that it is false. And if you know it is not biblical, you will not be deceived. That’s my take. Tell me if i am wrong.

  • finnigansmom

    How can 2 chronicles 7:14 come in
    If My people who are called by my name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
    That is what we pray !!

    • To gRider

      Amen! We pray for ourselves, other individuals, families, churches, businesses, cities, states, nations, the whole globe! There’s nothing wrong with revival. Granted, some are probably false, but it’s not right to throw it all out.

      Geoff, a warning for you to consider if the activities and behavior of your “ministry” has become divisive??? You are not edifying, you are tearing apart the church sir.

      “Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.”
      ‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:10-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

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  • finnigansmom

    I know some really nice people that go to this church. We all need to pray against satans signs and wonders, and our countrymen being decieved

  • Mark Eastridge

    Sound doctrine means just what the Bible says, rapture is not biblical, that myth started in 1830 by a sick woman by the name of Margaret McDonald
    This what God says about teaching his children to fly away, he is against those who teach his children to fly away
    Ezekiel 13:18-23 but read the whole chapter, at the top of that chapter you can read false prophets and prophetesses
    Sound doctrine satan will be thrown out of heaven along with his angels,by Michael,Rev 12:7-9 they are coming to earth satan will stand in the Holy place 2Thess 2
    If you are alive you will see this very event satan comes at the 6th trump Christ comes at the 7th
    That’s sound doctrine and that is God’s word not mine. Christ is coming here

    • guest

      With all respect, Mark, the event known as the rapture is actually very biblical. First Thessalonians 4:14-17 speaks of an event that will happen where believers in Christ, both alive and dead, will rise (aka be “caught up” or “raptured up”) to meet the Lord in the air. It’s a very biblical event! The confusion for most lies with the timing of the rapture. Some believe it will happen before the Tribulation; others in the middle; and some adhere to it happening at the end.

      I myself fall in the pre-trib camp. I believe the rapture will happen before the Tribulation starts. God states multiple times that we are not appointed to wrath, and that’s what the Tribulation is: 7 years of God’s wrath. Christ promises in Revelation to keep us FROM the hour of trial, and you cannot be kept FROM something if you are involved in it in any way.

      The term “rapture” may not be in the Bible (just like how the terms “Trinity” and “Bible” are not in the Bible) but the event itself is described plain as day in First Thessalonians.

      • Agree Bro. The story Jesus tells of the 5 Wise, and 5 Foolish Virgins, is about him, and whom he will take to heaven with them. The 5 WISE are those who don’T play Church. Or skip Church etc, etc. This is the Rapture itself..

        • Mike

          Hi Bro Rick, the ten virgins are a reference to those saved during the Tribulation period. During that time, your salvation is not guaranteed, like those who come to Christ before the rapture. It is up to those believers to maintain their salvation, hence the reference to oil in their lamps. See John C’s post further down the page.

          • Pete

            Mike, I noticed that you do what all pre-tribbers do, which is merely insist that something is so, without any biblical basis for it. As if that is rightly dividing the word of truth. As if the case is closed, since you said so. Examples:

            “the church…is represented by the 24 elders”. No it isn’t. These elders are heavenly beings just like the 4 beasts. They all sing the same song to the Lamb. We are not told who these elders are. You claim they are the church just because they are described as being clothed in white raiment. But angels are also described in the bible as being clothed in white raiment. And a big problem – the saints on earth during the tribulation are described as being clothed in white robes (Rev 7:13-14, Rev 6:11). Now what????

            “Yes, saints are mentioned all over the book, but these are tribulation saints”. And? How are they different than any other saints pray tell? Other than you just saying that they are.

            “those that come to Christ during the Tribulation, not those that had been previously raptured.” Begging the question. You assume there are two groups of saints. Prove that.

            Mike can you tell me what happens to “tribulation saints” when they die?

            Where do they go? What do they do?

          • Pete

            Mike, where else in scripture can you show that having oil in one’s lamp is “maintaining salvation”? This is merely a reference Jesus gave, using a common metaphor of the time (a wedding feast) to show that some of the Jews of His day were not prepared for the day of the Lord, while others were prepared. That’s it. You are allegorizing it too much.

          • Pete

            Thank you Mike! First I will point out that I never said I believe these elders are angels. I just don’t believe they represent the church, I think they are some kind of heavenly entity. You said “the fact that they sit on thrones suggest that they reign with Christ.” Technically you are correct that the Greek word thronos is used here, but it is translated as “seats” and I think that’s a fair translation. They are not thrones in the reigning/ruling sense. But even if they are, that doesn’t mean the church has been raptured. Certainly you aren’t suggesting that only 24 people make up the church! And that they all have to be older Christian men!

            If you are correct that these elders represent the church….fine, why can’t the church still be on earth and we reign with Jesus on earth while He is in heaven? I believe that’s what is happening now. Jesus Christ reigns in heaven. We are His body, we are one with Him. We represent Him on this planet, and we are in His kingdom as priests. We reign. It isn’t the same reign that you might imagine, but that doesn’t make it any less true.

            Re: the location of dead tribulation saints – your answer is acceptable although I don’t know if I agree, I don’t have any thoughts on that now. It actually was a question that I did not know an answer to, thanks for that.

            Some other things you wrote with my responses:

            //The church is always referred to as “the bride”.//

            Actually there is not a single scripture where the church is referred to as the bride.

            //The virgins carry their oil with them in lamps. As believers now, we have the holy spirit sealed within us, they carry it with them//

            But who are they? And why do they have to represent someone in a future “great tribulation”?

            //and are responsible for maintaining the oil (or holy spirit) within their lamps //

            Hmmmm….I think you are taking the oil/holy spirit metaphor where scripture has not taken it. This is a common thing that dispensationalism does. It tends to take a metaphor in one place in scripture and then automatically apply it everywhere it is mentioned. This is not good practice, and I can show you why if you are interested.

            //and keeping their walk with God intact.//

            But that isn’t what Jesus said. He merely used the example of 10 bridesmaids. 5 of them were not prepared for the coming of the groom, 5 of them were prepared. There isn’t anything about their daily lives or walk here. No mention of their lives outside of this particular event. Since I believe Jesus was speaking about soon-coming events upon the temple and Jerusalem here, I think He was just using a common metaphor of being ready.

          • Pete

            Hello Mike, I am leaving town soon so I don’t have a ton of time to catch up. Suffice to say that I don’t believe the Olivet Discourse has anything to do with our time, or the end of planet Earth, or the second coming of Christ. It is speaking of the 1st century destruction of the temple and the end of the Old Covenant age. Read and compare Mark 13 and Luke 21 with Matthew 24. Read all of Matthew, including chapter 23. Jesus was bringing down the hammer on the wicked generation of apostate Jews and since the end of the old covenant was coming to pass, Jesus was to die and rise again, His kingdom had come…it was time to change things.

            //f you can show me, why when something is established in scripture, it’s does not necessarily mean it everywhere else. I have never read that oil represented anything other than the holy spirit in scripture.//

            Sometimes oil just means oil. I think a good example is leaven. People say that leaven represents sin in the Bible. Sometimes it does. But not here:

            Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

            People say that bride in the Bible represents the church. I don’t know about that, the Bible never actually says that straight out. But even if that was true, that doesn’t mean every mention of “bride” in the Bible means the church. For example this passage:

            Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

            If we always assume the “bridegroom” means Jesus and the “bride” is the church, the prophet therefore is saying that the voice of Jesus and the church would no longer be heard in the wicked city of Babylon. ? What does that mean? Or how about this verse:

            John 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

            I have heard people trying to make the metaphor fit here, too, and they then claim that John (an “old testament saint”) is not the bride, therefore John is not in the church, and is thus a “friend of the groom.” That completely misses the point. John wasn’t trying to say anything like that. And he was comparing himself with the GROOM, not the bride.

            I find it interesting that pre-trib dispensationalists climb down the throats of guys like me when we claim something is metaphorical. Then they run away with metaphors like this and create entire doctrines out of them.

          • Pete

            Hi Mike, thanks and I agree. FTR two things….

            I am not post-trib. I don’t believe in a coming “Great Tribulation”, 7 year time period on earth prior to, before, during, or anytime associated with the second coming of Jesus or the end of the planet. You and I very well might end up side by side in some trench somewhere, but it won’t end with the Second Coming.
            I only claim that Jesus Christ is reigning now. I think it’s sad how few Christians actually believe this. We are not a kingdom of princes. We are a kingdom of priests (Rev 1:6). Jesus is reigning as He puts down all of His enemies. Yes, we are servants in His kingdom. I don’t see where any of us are going to physically sit on thrones and reign over anyone, but feel free to correct that with scripture. I know a lot of people talk about Rev 19 as if that’s the church during the millennium, but suffice to say I find that a very weak argument. Especially since pre-tribbers insist that since “the church” is not mentioned from Rev 4 onward, therefore she must be in heaven with Jesus. But suddenly the church is sitting on thrones on earth with Jesus in Rev 19? And where does it actually say that? Martyrs will reign with Jesus, that’s all it says.

            But anyway, nice chatting with you, you are a very sincere and kind person…

          • If Jesus is “reigning now”, then He isn’t doing so well against the Devil who is winning at the moment. What kind of King allows unchecked lawlessness, wickedness and perversion to increase? My Jesus will not be reigning until exactly when my King James Bible says He will be reigning, during the 1,000 Year Reign in Jerusalem.

            “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” Revelation 20:4 (KJV)

      • Agree & the church is not mentioned after Rev. Chapter 3.

        • Pete

          Mary Avery, what on earth are you talking about? First of all “the church” is not mentioned anywhere in Revelation. It’s “churches”, or assemblies, in Rev 1-3. Secondly, “saints” are mentioned all over the book of Revelation, and they are spoken of as being on earth. The only way around this is for you to claim these “saints” are not in the church, which of course is just circular reasoning.

          Meanwhile “the church” is never once mentioned as being in heaven anywhere in the book of Revelation. Somehow that never seems like a problem with pre-tribbers. “The church” is not mentioned in several books of the New Testament. Does that mean those books are not relevant to the church?

          And of course, there isn’t a single verse in scripture that states the church will be whisked away to heaven prior to a 7 year tribulation. I guess as long as ideas don’t conflict with the pre-trib belief, it doesn’t matter if they are “mentioned” in the Bible, huh?

          Very weak argument in favor of a pre-trib rapture.

          • Mike

            Pete, the church in mentioned in Revelation. They are represented by the 24 elders. They are described as being clothed in white robes. What group would that describe? Those washed in the blood of the lamb. Yes, saints are mentioned all over the book, but these are tribulation saints, those that come to Christ during the Tribulation, not those that had been previously raptured.

          • Mike

            Fair enough, Pete. You seem really confident in your view and want to back it up with the Word. Very good. While there may not be a specific bible verse that says, “the 24 elders are the redeemed church after the rapture”, let’s look at some other verses in the bible that concentrate on the details concerning these elders. Let’s also look at reasonable deduction along with those scriptures.

            You say they are “heavenly beings”. The fact that they sit on thrones suggest that they reign with Christ. No where in scripture does it say that angelic beings reign with Christ or sit on thrones. The church (or body of believers) is said to rule and reign with Christ.
            Luke 22:30 “that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel”.
            Elders have never referred to angels, only to men, specifically to men who are of a mature age and able to rule in the church. Angels do not age.
            The fact that they wear crowns also indicates the church. James 1:12 “Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him”.
            The elders also can’t represent the tribulation saints because at the time of John’s vision, not all had been converted. You debate that there can’t be two types of saints, only one type which is everyone who is saved by grace through faith in Christ. I agree. We all are. Revelation 6:9 “And when he had opened the fifth sea, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held”. Where are they? Under the altar, not sitting on thrones. What are they? Souls, for they haven’t been given resurrection bodies quite yet. They therefore can’t wear crowns like the elders do. This is in answer to your question above about what happens to the Tribulation saints. They are only there for a little while. Revelation 6:11 “And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled”.
            Concerning the 10 virgins and the oil in the lamps. They are called virgins, not the bride. The church is always referred to as “the bride”. The virgins carry their oil with them in lamps. As believers now, we have the holy spirit sealed within us, they carry it with them and are responsible for maintaining the oil (or holy spirit) within their lamps and keeping their walk with God intact. Matthew 24:13 “But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved”. A believers salvation is sealed by the holy spirit at the moment of belief in grace through faith in Christ”.

            It’s a pleasure debating with you Pete, you are right to ask for back up from scripture. Looking forward to talking some more!

          • Mike

            Hi Pete, jeez I’m getting a little confused here as to where to reply! The thread is a little disjointed. Anyway, thanks for your reply, you make some good points. First, no of course I wouldn’t imply that the church is made up of only 24 persons. Highly symbolic reference in the scripture there. But one question…if the elders are not the church and they’re not angels, who do you suppose them to be? The church is referenced as a bride. Isaiah 54:5 “For your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called”. Also Revelation 19:7-9 “Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure”— for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.”

            “They”, meaning the 10 virgins, are those that are saved in the Tribulation period, only half of them though maintain their salvation by remaining filled with the Holy Spirit, the other five aren’t. They have to represent those in the great tribulation because they are anxiously awaiting their bridegroom, which is Christ, who returns at the end of the Tribulation. The rapture and the return of Christ are two separate events. And just like the 24 elders represent the entire church, these virgins would represent more than just 10 tribulation saints. The condition of their lamps does speak about their walk. Five were filled with the spirit and maintained their salvation, the others didn’t, as they were not invited in to the wedding feast by Jesus. You say that this refers to the soon coming events of the temple and Jerusalem here. Can you point to why you believe that?

            Good point you make about us reigning with Christ in the here and now. I would like to further investigate that. And of course I’m interested, if you can show me, why when something is established in scripture, it’s does not necessarily mean it everywhere else. I have never read that oil represented anything other than the holy spirit in scripture.

            But one last point. If that is someone who is ruling and reigning with Christ in heaven, who is it? You say that it doesn’t mean the church has to be raptured if it’s someone else. True. But who else in the entire bible rules and reigns with Christ? It has to be the raptured church because the location of the thrones is…in heaven. And they are revealed while the events of the Tribulation are ongoing. Food for thought.

            Looking forward to your reply!

          • Mike

            Well Pete, the last thing I want to do is climb down your throat or force my view on you. I respect your view and I like that you back it up with scripture, although our interpretations are quite different. Concerning your earlier view that we are rulers and reigning with Christ now, I thought about it and I have to say I disagree. For now, we are servants of His. We will not rule or reign until we get our glorified bodies. I won’t insult you by not backing this up with scripture. Philippians 3:14 “I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus”. We haven’t reached the goal yet, though we are still running the race.

            Different views doesn’t make us any less brothers in Christ. I’ll tell you what. If we find ourselves in the trenches during the Tribulation period, fighting for our lives and waiting for the rapture in the middle, at the end or even not at all, you can turn to me and say, “I told you so!” But if we’re whisked away in the twinkling of an eye (1 Corinthians 15:52) and never taste death (1 Corinthians 15:51), allow me to do the same. Until then, it was nice debating with you!

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  • MG

    amen! well done and said my brother! People are following false doctrines,…and it’s getting worse.

  • Jerry

    Sorry Geoffrey but you are WAY off base in saying that God cannot answer peoples prayers for people to come to know Jesus in the form of a revival that would turn America around. You appear to be limiting God by lumping too many churches into the New Apostolic Reformation, or saying that unless Paul specifically mentioned it, then no revival or turning back to God in this nation can occur. The fact that the Laodicean Church of our time, will be focused only on money and prosperity and boot Jesus to the curb, in no way limits God bringing people into his church in the form of a revival…

    • To gRider

      Right, Paul also never said to have a website to run a “ministry”, but that wouldnt fly as common sense with anyone.

      It’s not ok as a “minister of the gospel” to claim the “Paul never said to do/not do that” and then do a lot of things that Are against that rule. That’s twisting scripture to make it fit your agenda. It’s all Pharisaical; it’s also Hypocrisy.

      Geoff Grider, a desperate plea and warning to examine your ministry and yourself. You are dividing the church apart. You are quenching the unity.

      Titus 3:10

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  • MRS. D

    Plainly stated:
    Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

  • John c

    I love all my brothers and sisters in Christ. I apologize but everyone needs to understand what the parable of the ten virgins is about. It’s not about the Church. The bride isn’t even mentioned in the parable. The virgins are the tribulation saints. You have to keep in context the time period Jesus is talking about. The first two words are “then shall” which refers to several earlier references of the Olivet Discourse especially Matthew 24:29. This takes place at the end of the Great Tribulation when whatever is left of the world awaits the return of the Messiah. All ten virgins have their torchs full of oil at the beginning. But the five unwise ones did not bring any extra supply, and when they were waiting they ran out of their oil (symbolic for the Holy Spirit). The Church age saints have eternal security. Those tribulation saints are responsible for keeping their own salvation. That’s why the five wise virgins didn’t give them their oil. Not only that, it’s not the five wise virgins being selfish, their salvation could not be transferred to the five foolish virgins. Each believer is responsible for their own salvation.

    • Tom

      That’s right Bro. and to many people on this web site don’t understandeth what thou readest.

  • We live in Perilous times…

    More End Time News At:

  • Ang

    ACTS 2:17-20 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come.

    There are great things happening today. I’ve witnessed God’s work and His presence for most of my life, but more so in the past several years… While there may be much deception around these modern revivals, God can bring something beautiful out of them. He is unstoppable-no matter what.

  • Pete

    The Bible does not explicitly state that there will be a revival of the church right before Jesus comes. But the Bible also doesn’t explicitly state that there will be a massive apostasy before Jesus comes at the end of the world. AND, nobody knows if we are standing at the threshold of the end of the world. Jesus hasn’t given us enough information to know that. He told us to do His work, and that’s it.

    Lots of problems here. Firsts you continue to propagate the lie that Revelation 2-3 speaks of the “church age” throughout history. The Bible never says one thing about this, that is 100% a man-made idea. Revelation 2-3 is to the 7 churches of Asia Minor that existed when John penned the epistle. You constantly harp about “the Bible doesn’t say this or that” but there you are, outwardly teaching that the 7 churches represent the church age over the last 2000 years.

    Then to make it worse, you arbitrarily decide that right now we are living in the last church, Laodicea. Where in the Bible can you prove that 2016 is this particular church time period? You don’t have any right to state that. As you say, the whole Bible is not written TO you, Geoffrey. Those words were written TO that assembly of believers in the 1st century. Not to you or I.

    And I don’t think the people DYING for their faith in the Middle East, or going to prison for their faith in China, would appreciate some American, who watches TV and sees Joel Osteen, decide that the entire church is lukewarm. You are a great offense to their testimony.

    All of the verses you reference about falling away from the faith and the Word pertained directly to the authors of those words, in their day. For example, Paul never said that right before Jesus comes, people will not endure sound doctrine. Paul said “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine.” This was 100% relevant to Timothy in his day. Otherwise Paul’s words would have had no meaning to him, and God doesn’t say nonsensical things to people. It is also relevant to our day, but it isn’t particularly ABOUT our specific time period (or ANY specific time period). It is interesting, Geoffrey, that you tell us the Bible SAYS things when it doesn’t.

    To say that the church MUST slide into apostasy is to DENY what Jesus stated: “I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” JESUS DOES NOT FAIL.

    As for all the whacky stuff that isn’t anything new. The latest version of this age-old crap was the modern Pentecostal movement that started in the late 1800s. It’s actually far less popular now than it was back then.

  • JesusIsComingSoon

    Praying for Ecuador. The big one is coming to a theater near you. May God help us all!

  • There have been numerous revivals throughout the centuries and not one of them is mentioned in the Bible.

  • Leslie

    Geoffrey, praise Father God for allowing your eyes to be opened to the false preaching of Perry Stone!

  • Jimmy

    Brother Grider, don’t let those who do not rightly divide the word of truth get to you with their comments. When Jesus is reigning as King of Kings with that rod of iron, Matt 5:22 will come into play. If you’re mad at your brother without a cause, judgment. If you call someone RACA, council. (I can’t remember the last time I wanted to say to someone, “You RACA!!!”) If you call someone a fool, your body is going into a lake of fire, which will be on this earth, south of Edom. (Isaiah) If he was King over this earth right now, these things would be happening. I ask these people, where’s this council? Where’s this judgment? Where’s this hell if you call someone a fool? It’s comin’.

    • Pete

      Hi Jimmy, what is your interpretation of Matthew 28:18? What did Jesus mean when He said “All power in heaven and in earth has been given unto me?” And what did Paul mean in Phil 2:9-10 and Ephesians 1:20-21 when he says that Jesus IS sitting at the highest place in the universe, over all of heaven AND earth? Today. Not future. I would love your thoughts.

      • Jimmy

        Hey, Brother Pete. Well, I believe the Lord Jesus Christ does have all power just as God had all power over Satan when he allowed him to test Job. He defeated death by rising from the dead. He, as a man, earned that power ‘justifiably’. As God, He’s had it for all eternity, but, as a man, he has earned the right to judge all because he went through it.
        Phil 2:9 God highly exalted the man Christ Jesus, His name is above every name, and every knee (should) will bow, either now, or at White Throne including Satan. All will confess, either now, or will be forced to at White Throne. They’re not doing these things now. They’re bowing and confessing to the god of this world. 2 Cor 4:4.
        Eph 1:20-21, He’s at the right hand of God. He’s above all spirits, their power, their place, and every name now and every name and spirits (good spirits, i.e. angels, seraphim, cherubim) in the age to come.
        When Satan tempted the Lord with “I’ll give all these kingdoms if you worship me.” (paraphrasing) Jesus didn’t say, “They’re mine anyway, so you can’t give them to me.” Because they were not his, rightfully. Adam gave them to Satan. Now Satan has them back like Isaiah 14:13.
        If the Jews would have accepted Jesus as their King he would have set up his throne right there and we (gentiles) would have to have been saved during the millennium. He offered the kingdom to them, John could have been the promised Elijah if they accepted him. But they rejected Jesus as their King. He preached to them in Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. (Not us) Matt 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Not us) We become a child of God through faith in the blood. Call someone a fool, you’re in danger of hell fire, The Lord and Paul called people fools at least 10 times. Not talking to us. Rightly divide it. Matt 5 is to set up a kingdom for the Jews and it would have happened if they received Him. He’s saying “There is coming a time when your righteousness had better exceed that of the Pharisees so much that if you even call someone a fool, you’ll be in danger of being thrown into hell on the spot. Rod of iron.
        He is right now allowing the god of this world to be the god of this world while He is calling out his bride. (The only thing He is doing right now is calling out His bride. That’s it) Then He will come back with her and rule and reign as the King of kings and Lord of lords. FUTURE. If the Lord Jesus Christ was exercising His ruling and kingship right now evil men and seducers would not be waxing worse and worse. Timothy 3:13 He would be putting them to death as the white haired, eyes on fire, KING.

        Now, I could be wrong. I can admit that about a lot of biblical things that aren’t black and white. I’m not going to be so arrogant that I can’t use another man’s brain and think that I have it all figured out. But, I believe when my King, who is the Lord Jesus Christ, rules and reigns, He is going to actually RULE and REIGN. (and that, by force)

        • Pete

          Jimmy, thanks! A very reasoned response, some of which I agree with and other things I do not. I have a further question, and this is not rhetorical, I just want your perspective. When you say “when the Lord Jesus Christ, rules and reigns, He is going to actually RULE and REIGN. (and that, by force)”…I assume you mean during the 1000 year “millennium.”

          Do you mean that God will at that time REMOVE man’s free will? That is, God will for the first time in history change from His current way and become a dictator, forcing people to bow the knee and obey? If they do not obey, what happens to them?

          Furthermore, at what level is this obedience going to take place? Do the people living on earth in the millennium have to live 100% pure sinless lives otherwise they are punished? Or will Jesus only go after them for “the big stuff” like war, murder, idolatry, sexual sins etc.? I am being serious, I really want to understand what you think this Kingdom of Jesus is going to be like.

          • Jimmy

            Brother Pete, or, Brother stone or rock (: good evenin’. I’ll go by order in which you asked after copying and pasting a foundation. Luke 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them (kingdoms): FOR THAT IS DELIVERED UNTO ME; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

            Ok, no, God will never remove free will from anyone. He will rule by a Monarchy. If you mean a dictator, He will dictate in righteousness and perfect judgement. Future, Jer 23:5,6, Dan 7:13-14, Isa 2:1-3, As far as “forcing people to bow?” I don’t know, but, if I was there, in front of the glorified Son of God and didn’t bow freely, I’ve got a bad issue going on inside. I believe Isa 65 starting at vs. 17 describes what it’s like and what will come to those who don’t accept Jesus as their King. (vs 22, the days of a tree are the days of my people. 9?? years again, if you die at 100 years, you’ll be considered a child, a person will have 100 to accept the King or they are cursed, they will only live in their “self-built” homes and only eat what “they” grow. All animals will be vegetarians and they won’t hurt people.) There will be sin, vs. 20, the sacrifices are reinstated, Matt 5:22-24, but no Satan. At the end of the 1000 yrs, Satan is loosed and will gather the cursed for one last battle. Rev 20:7.

            As you know, the Lord Jesus Christ has the office of Prophet, Priest, and King. At his first advent, he was the prophet. John 4:44, 6:14. Half the verses he spoke were prophesies. Herod was king. The priests were priests. Right now he is the priest. Our High Priest. Heb chpts 4 – 10. Not a prophet or a king. Obama, Putin, U.N., they are the kings of this world. Future, he will be the King reigning over the earth when the Father gives him the throne of his father David, (the first 8 vss I listed at the top, also Rev 11:15, 19:12 (crowns) 19:16. Also Heb 1:8 (which is the Father calling the Son, God, which is pretty cool),”But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.” Do you believe this “present evil world”, which Paul said in Gal 1:4, under a septre of righteousness? Not yet.

            He rode an ass the first time through the eastern gate, they yelled,”Hail! Hosanna in the highest! Those same people cried “Crucify him” the next day. Next time he’ll have a horse, a big white one, after coming from the split Mnt of Olives, crossing the Kindron Valley, trampling through the armies with their blood up to the horses bridles, busting open that same eastern gate in which has been sealed shut for 2000 years as the King of kings. (People have actually tried to open it but can’t)

            Anyway, Brother Pete, the reason I listed the foundation vs at the top is this. The temptations that Satan gave our Lord were not just simple tempts to see it he could get Jesus to sin. He tried to get him to do the ‘right’ thing at the ‘wrong’ time. Satan knows that scripture, He told him to throw himself off the temple and God would have His angels to catch him. If he jumped, they would have caught him, and he would have floated down to the temple. The jews would have seen that and would have crowned him right there. Psalms 91:11,12 and Malachi 3:1 He will suddenly come to his temple Luke 1:32 He told him to turn the stones into bread, He will make bread (or food) in the future for the remnant. Rev 12:14. He also told him to bow down and he would give him all the kingdoms. He WILL get all the kingdoms, Revelation 11:15, which is future.

            I know we as Christians like to say, and I do to, that Jesus is my King. Well, technically, He’s not our King or Prophet. He is our High Priest that made the sacrifice for us. There is not one verse that says that He is OUR king. He is and will be the King of the Jews who they are still waiting on. That’s all that Matthew is about. We are His body. Bone of His bone, flesh of His flesh. We will be married to Him. WE are his body. Not the O.T. saints, not the nation of Israel, not the trib saints, or the millennium saints. WE are his bride and body. When he is through calling out His bride, He will catch us away, there will be a marriage, and He’ll return and take the throne. I know that you know this, I’m not trying to give you a lesson. You know scripture. He will rule with a rod of iron at the second advent. Right now He is gently….calling….his bride. A king rules. The god of this world is ruling right now (as God allows) as you can see on the evening news.
            Luke 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them (kingdoms): FOR THAT IS DELIVERED UNTO ME; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

          • Jimmy

            Correction on 3rd paragraph, 4th sentence down, …..(the first “3” vss) not “8”. I wish there was an edit button.

        • Pete

          Hi Jimmy, some other questions (see my question above as well). These questions are more rhetorical, meaning, I am asking them to challenge your line of thinking and also to see what you would say to these.

          When you did your exegesis on Eph 1:20-21 I noticed you carefully stated that these powers are spiritual in nature, like angels etc. But Ephesians clearly says ALL power/might/dominion. It doesn’t specify only spiritual beings. This includes Presidents, Kings, Congress, Parliament, everybody. Do you agree?

          Do you agree that Jesus Christ is king over President Obama right now? If so, does it *matter* whether Obama is bowing the knee today or not? Is Obama “getting away with it”? Did Hitler get away with it? Did Pharaoh? Did Judas Iscariot?

          Do YOU bow the knee to Jesus as King all day long, every day? If you are like me, the answer is an honest “no.” OK, so do YOU get away with it? Do YOU get what you deserve for not doing it? Does that make Jesus any less YOUR King? Does the fact that Obama never does it, make Jesus any less Obama’s King? Will Obama not have to bow the knee to Jesus someday (I believe at the judgment, you believe in a millennium) anyway?

  • Jimmy

    Pete, He does have ALL power/might/dominion over everyone and everything. He’s God Almighty. Just as David, who was a wonderful type of Christ, was God’s chosen king and anointed for it very early in his life, did not practice his kingship until Saul, the king that God allowed but did not choose, was dead. He has all power over folks like Obama and the other folks that you mentioned, but, He is not their King. They didn’t/don’t even ‘know’ Him. They are of their father the devil and the works of their father they will do.

    • Pete

      Hi Jimmy, the Bible says that Jesus is far above all principality and power. It says ALL POWER has been given unto Him. Therefore Jesus is king over Obama, and 100% of every human being, right now, today. Just because they are not bowing to Him or recognizing it, doesn’t make it any less true. And someday they WILL bow. So….I totally disagree that this is some kind of “sort of” kingship. Either He is King of kings, or He is not. There is no in-between.


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