Pope Francis Says Christians Do Not Exist Outside The Roman Catholic Church

Pope Francis said that people cannot be Christians without the Church, explaining that Christian identity is rooted in it and that believers cannot stand alone....
pope-francis-consecrates-entire-world-to-mary-pagan-idol-worship
Pope Francis consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary at an October 13 Mass in St. Peter’s Square, in the climactic ceremony of a Marian Day celebration.

Francis also said that aliens will be baptized when they arrive

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8,9

Vatican City, Rome – Pope Francis said that people cannot be Christians without the Church, explaining that Christian identity is rooted in it and that believers cannot stand alone.

Our Christian identity is belonging to a people: the Church. Without this, we are not Christians. We entered the Church through baptism: there we are Christians,” Francis said during Mass on Thursday, Vatican Radio reported.

pope-francis-consecrates-entire-world-to-mary-pagan-idol-worship

Pope Francis consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary at an October 13, 2013 Mass in St. Peter’s Square, in the climactic ceremony of a Marian Day celebration.

“A Christian without a church is something purely idealistic, it is not real,” the Roman Catholic Church leader argued. He said that one cannot “understand a Christian alone” any more than “Jesus Christ alone” can be understood.

“Jesus Christ did not fall from the sky like a superhero who comes to save us. No. Jesus Christ has a history. And we can say, and it is true, that God has a history because He wanted to walk with us. And you cannot understand Jesus Christ without His history. So a Christian without history, without a Christian nation, a Christian without the Church is incomprehensible. It is a thing of the laboratory, an artificial thing, a thing that cannot give life,” Francis said.

The Vatican leader urged believers to “ask for the grace of memory, the memory of the journey that the people of God has made,” as well as for personal memory – “What God did for me, in my life, how has He made me walk.”

He added that the “grace of hope” is also necessary for Christian identity, explaining that he does not mean optimism, but “something else.” “Ask for the grace to renew the covenant with the Lord who has called us every day,” Francis said.

During Mass on Monday, Francis also theorized about alien life forms, and suggested that even Martians should be welcomed to be baptized as well.

“If – for example – tomorrow an expedition of Martians came, and some of them came to us, here … Martians, right? Green, with that long nose and big ears, just like children paint them … And one says, ‘But I want to be baptized!’ What would happen?” Pope Francis remarked, and told the audience that baptism is open to everyone. He also recalled the words of Peter: “If then God gave them the same gift He gave to us when we came to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?” source – Christian Post

 

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  • fred

    He almost got it. It should have been… “don’t exist INSIDE the a catholic church”.

    • REID

      The great Harlot, the Catholic church it appears is setting the stage for the end time persecution of God’s true church.

      • Jay

        Roman Catholicism has murdered more Christians throughout its history than communism, Islam and all the other put together. Those original underground churches that did not believe the Pope could forgive sins if you paid him money were slaughtered out of existence if they were discovered.

        • Lazykid

          Atheism has killed more people in the 20 century than all religion’s ever did thru out history.

          • Emery

            No, it hasn’t. Atheism as a “religion” is a relatively new thing. Many did not believe in God throughout the ages, but the group called Atheists is new relatively speaking. And in any case, no, Christendom is responsible for world war one and two, and over ninety percent of all wars since then. Popes promulgate war, causing religions to kill their own members on the opposite side of a political issue. A pope blessed Hitler’s troops, on film. It was recorded. Popes have blessed troops in every war since then. Remember the crusades? Christendom again. Need I go on?

          • Jonathan Larson

            LOLOLOL. where do you get your information?? Atheism has been around for 11centuries. World war One and Two were NOT because of christianity. World war 1 was because of several assassinations taking place that cause Germany, the Ottoman empire, and Austria-Hungary, against the allied forces. World war 2 was because hitler took it upon himself to decide who the ‘chosen’ race is. and whoever didn’t fit that profile he had slaughtered. He created the modern meaning of genocide by killings MILLIONS OF CIVILIANS, I actually have a friend doing a story about a town that killed 2 of Hitlers assassins (A town of 500-600 people) because they killed those hitmen, of that town only about 14 children survived, cause Hitler bulldozed the entire town as punishment. The pope never supported Hitler. The Crusades were to help the Jewish Nation for example, The Third great Crusade happened because Jerusalem was taken over by Saladin, and the purpose of the Crusade was to reclaim the Holy Land from Saladin to save the Jewish people. For every war that christianity has started there is a reason, JUST LIKE ANY other religion you will NEVER find a religion that did not have some war affiliated with it.

          • What_IS_FEAR

            You nailed it, Lazykid! Atheism will continue to kill. It’s Satan’s finest work, besides the breakdown of the family, which seems to be another of his large projects of late.

          • Emery

            WHAT_IS_FEAR;
            It appears that you think atheism is more powerful in keeping people from God than Christendom. Christemdon’s membership will all be destroyed in the final battle. Even if all atheists were counted, Christendom’s membership is a much higher number. No one who is part of a religion called “false” in the scriptures, or “works of the flesh” and “Babylon the Great” as all sects/denominations are labeled in the scriptures, will be left alive after Armageddon. It’s for that reason that God said to “flee from her”. It would be a good idea to take God’s advice.

        • john

          That’s because Jay, they have existed far, far longer than any other Christian sect. We will give you time and I’m sure you’ll catch up. Start with Protestantism and slavery Jay.

          • Emery Richards

            john;
            It’s also because the RCC is the FIRST religion of Christendom, created in 325 a.d. by Constantine. He mixed PAGAN and Christian beliefs to create what he called his “state religion”. All sects/denominations of Christendom follow that first Christendom religion. All are pagan to one degree or another, and are NOT approved of by God, in fact, he basically said that involvement in ANY such religion means a judgement of DEATH. They are ALL false, works of the flesh, and Babylon the Great. They are ALL copies, fraudulent replicas of the original “one true faith” that Jesus taught. There can be only one reason for creating such a fraudulent copy of the original, and that is to CHANGE what God teaches, and what His son Jesus teaches. Any honest person, desiring to worship and serve God, would want to participate in the original, not a fraudulent copy. All of these sects/denominations are different from each other, and NONE teach what Jesus did. Not a single one. They leave out things, interpret scriptures (God said does not interpretation belong only to me?), they add things, and mix pagan rituals, icons, idols, and beliefs with Christianity. Christendom IS NOT CHRISTIAN.

      • Emery

        Reid;
        According to the scriptures, the harlot is ALL religions, sects, denominations that have consorted with war, governments, industry, and who have allowed things God hates (idolatry, homosexuality, dishonesty, pagan beliefs). And it includes all religions who don’t adhere strictly to the scriptures, teaching ONLY the inspired word of God. All religions believing in things pagan, like immortal soul, hell fire, cross, and the like, and who celebrate pagan holidays like Christmas (Saturna), Easter (worship if Isis and Ishtar), and who use the Tau (the cross symbol for Tammuz a pagan god, since Jesus was killed on a torture stake, not a cross). The RCC is not the harlot, but is part of the composite harlot. God ONLY approves worship He teaches through the scriptures, and no man made religion (they’re all man made) teaches His word only or accurately.

        • Christian

          You also miss out some very important things that identifies a false prophet religion, an anti-christ (one who teaches against the deity of Christ), mutilate the scriptures by adding and subtracting to and from God’s Holy word /Revelation 22:18,19…”If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.”
          Some claiming to be Christians have added to God’s word and deleted and twisted scriptures to stripe off Christ’s deity.For example, one organization adopted a man made name “Jehovah” for God “Jehovah” and ADDED over 6973 times in one fake bible they prepared to mislead and called themselves the “true religion”!!!.

      • Emery

        The “great harlot” isn’t just the Catholic Church. It’s ALL religions created by man. Any religion of any type that is not what Jesus taught is false and is part of the harlot, or rather, Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion. Jesus’ teachings were for the creation of the Christian Congregation, not a church or a religion. He taught against churches, clergy, sects/denominations, pagandom (of which Christendom is a huge part). All religions of Christendom are rife with pagan beliefs and rituals and icons/idols and teachings. Not a single one teaches ONLY the scriptures, which is a requirement of Christianity. Being part of a religion precludes one from being Christian, with no exceptions. Were one to actually study and understand the scriptures, one would know no religion of man is to be touched with a ten foot pole. Revelation says to “flee from her”.

        • No, Revelation 17 & 18 is very specific. The HARLOT CHURCH is none other than the Vatican.

          • Christian

            And she has daughters!

          • mark

            How do figure it is the Vatican?

          • Emery

            No, the scriptures make very clear that ALL religions are the whore of Babylon. They are Babylon the Great along with all governments, and all will be destroyed who are part of them, in the final battle, in the blink of an eye.

      • Emery

        There is no “God’s true church”. Doesn’t exist. There is the teaching of Jesus and the formation of the Christian Congregation, but NO CHURCH. No clergy, no dogma outside the Bible, no beliefs outside the Bible.

        • Christian

          The word “church” translated from Ecclesia, meaning ‘a people called out’! Your religion of Watchtower society has its own terminology and they very much want to show how different they are from the rest of the Christianity while calling themselves also a Chriatian religion. Remember,THE CHURCH is PEOPLE. It is not a building nor organization!

          On the cotrary, God has a true Church, it is symbolized by a ‘pure woman’in the scripture. False Church/ religion is symbolize by a bad woman, “Whore” in the scripture. Here’s where God identifies His ‘true church,’ (people)in the end times of the world history. Read RevelaTION 12:17. They have the ‘Faith of Jesus’and obey God’s law of ten commandments, all of it, not just nine as many claim. Jesus said that the law will not pass away, never, not even unitl this system (end of world).

          http://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/5000/t/the-bride-of-christ

          • Emery

            Christian;
            There is no such religion as Watchtower society. There is a society, but it’s not a religion, and they don’t have “their own terminology” as you co crassly put it. All who are part of the Christian Congregation (the one Jesus began before his death) today are members of that society. It’s how Bibles and literature are produced, and how we are organized, but no, you’re quite wrong. It’s not a religion. A religion begun by man by definition teaches beliefs that contradict the scriptures and God and God’s son, Jesus the messiah. Your lack of knowledge on a subject should be a good indication that until you know what you’re talking about, you shouldn’t talk about it. It’s a cinch you don’t know the scriptures either, at least not an accurate translation of them. The proof of that is your behavior.

            Also, you said “the church is people”. That’s a complete lie and you know it. The church TEACHES people, but does it falsely, teaching lies, but it is not people. Ecclesia means either people or congregation, depending on the context, it DOES NOT MEAN CHURCH. Only in modern Greek to English translating can you claim it means church, but in the ancient Koine Greek it’s meaning is people/congregation. Try to get your facts straight before making statements, because they’re always wrong otherwise.

    • god bless

      god is merciful you as christians i do not see one single god bless any one… just all critical of this and that .. not christian to me at all .. we are the church yes .. now maybe you need to act like God intended you too and be merciful too

  • wc

    The “church” is not this religious organization. The “church” is made up of all born again believers who are trusting Christ for their salvation.

    • AMEN! Pope Francis has openly declared atheists will go to Heaven without any repentance or acceptance of Christ! That is not the sort of “church” I want to join. The darkness and evil in the Vatican is palpable. I fully expect Francis to be revealed as the “False Prophet” of St. John’s Revelation seen in the Bible.

      • What_IS_FEAR

        I left the CC after 44 years. Absolutely 1000% sure it was the Holy Spirit prompting me. Since I took the step of faith and joined a Bible-based church that proclaims the true Word of God I’ve never been the same. I am born again, baptized for real and have had a change from the inside out. As I look back I see that the CC is nothing but a heavy shroud that hangs between man and God. The CC is a cult and a money making scheme that controls its members and blocks them from the Truth of God’s Word. But God will have the final say. Jesus will not lose one that has been given Him.

    • John Hall

      Amen

    • Melvin

      Amen!!! Why is it so hard for people to understand the simplicity of what you said😃

    • Rob Tomlinson

      Amen and amen

    • @WC, i don’t think you’re understanding what this Pope is really saying and I copy this “A Christian without a church is something purely idealistic, it is not real,” the Roman Catholic Church leader argued. He said that one cannot “understand a Christian alone” any more than “Jesus Christ alone” can be understood.

      “Jesus Christ did not fall from the sky like a superhero who comes to save us. No. Jesus Christ has a history.

      Do you not understand that if something was created by these Catholics devils and then it all belong to them.? Christianity, Church,Christ,Cross,Mary,Jesus, ect. At one time all these words meant something else.But as time went on the Catholics and Jews or Sabbatean, and Orthodox Priest join together during the 1500’s -1666 their demonic plan had been but into action every since.

      This why this Pope declares that Jesus has a history and it is one that the Catholics made up themselves and gave unto this world. Theirs only God and Creator Isaiah,43,45.

    • Thank you WC.

    • Jack Smith

      Which only proves that their “church” is their god. Most of them (catholics) have NO relationship with the God of the Bible, but are instead trying to reach God through “mother church”, routines, rituals, “sacraments”, “saints”, idols, trinkets, and various other assortments of gadgets (i.e. rosary beads, brown scapulars, etc., etc. ad nauseam).

      As Acts 4:12 states: “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”

      That name is Jesus NOT “mother church” or “papa pope” or “baptism”. You don’t join the Church to come to Jesus (that concept is found nowhere in the Bible).

      You receive Jesus FIRST and that MAKES you a part of the TRUE CHURCH (then you can be baptized and join a fellowship of believers).

      And then he mentions some nonsense about Martians being baptized and totally massacres Acts Chapter 10.

      “If – for example – tomorrow an expedition of Martians came, and some of them came to us, here … Martians, right? Green, with that long nose and big ears, just like children paint them … And one says, ‘But I want to be baptized!’ What would happen?” Pope Francis remarked, and told the audience that baptism is open to everyone. He also recalled the words of Peter: “If then God gave them the same gift He gave to us when we came to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?”

      First of all, BELIEF is a precondition for baptism (see Acts 8:36-37).

      “And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

      Also in Acts Chapter 10 which I already mentioned was TOTALLY misapplied, Cornelius and his gentile brethren FIRST heard the Gospel preached; THEN they BELIEVED and RECEIVED the gift of the Holy Spirit (as evidenced by the fact that they spoke with tongues and magnified God). That’s what prompted Peter to say, “Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?” They didn’t just come up to Peter and say,”But I want to be baptized!”

      Catholicism…? NO THANKS! You can keep it!

    • What_IS_FEAR

      Same here. I urge all Catholics reading this to go to this website: http://www.pro-gospel.org and read it thoroughly. Get a Bible (and not a Catholic Bible because they have added extra books that are NOT the Word of God). Get a copy of the Catholic Catechism or look it up on the Vatican website. Compare God’s word (New King James version or NIV, any of those true translations) to the Catechism and try to hold your mouth from dropping open. I did it and was absolutely astounded.

      I pray fervently for every single Catholic to be opened to God’s Word. It’s my prayer that they are among those predestined by God to find Jesus and have a lasting relationship with Him, living a true Christian walk on the narrow path.

  • kobzar

    I only believe in Jesus Christ who is GOD in the flesh! He died for me and rose back from the dead 3 days later and is presently seated next to GOD! Anything or anybody else espousing GOD HEAD is delusional and out to lunch and headed for the lake of fire!

    • JCs

      The Godhead is Jesus and God and Holy Spirit, its in the bible and yes they are 1

      • Brenda Murphy

        Right.

    • Christian

      If anybody is confused and delutional about Godhead its obviously you!Because you said that you believe ‘only in Jesus Christ who is GOD…and is presently SEATED NEXT to GOD!!!
      Who is he that Jesus seated next to?

  • laura

    I’ve said it before and will say it again: Pope Francis is the false prophet of Revelation.

  • Hope

    This is a long-standing doctrine of the Catholic church, so in itself is not surprising. What I don’t get, though, is how we can embrace all people(and Martians)but then insist that they have to join the Catholic Church. That is a tenet of the Emergent Church movement as well (let’s just all get along) but it can’t work. It is hard to be inclusive and exclusive at the same time. Obviously, Jesus didn’t hold to that theology. He said there is only one way and he was it.

  • the Christian church started in rome. the catholics own jesus and everyone else borrows him. I like the fact they wanna baptize aliens. get em right off the boat before anyone else grabs em.

  • STL

    Kobzar: How’s thing in Ukraine lately?

  • Gal 3:26-29
    26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
    27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    We are children of God by our faith in Jesus Christ,
    1 Cor 15: 1-4

    Not because the Pope claims you need to be Catholic.
    Christian identity is rooted in Christ, not the Catholic 
    church!.. ….Martians ??

  • S. Klein

    What identity is the following? Where is the church? Is it why the Vatican hates Israel?

    Isa 14:1 When the LORD will have compassion on Jacob and again choose Israel, and settle them in their own land, then strangers will join them and attach themselves to the house of Jacob.

    Isa 56:6 “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD,
    To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD,
    To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the Sabbath
    And holds fast My covenant;

    Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
    And make them joyful in My house of prayer….”

    The Lord GOD, who gathers the dispersed of Israel, declares,
    “Yet others I will gather to them, to those already gathered.”

  • simpel

    A church is just a tool. The real answer is within us, within each person, it is the power of the human spirit. It cannot be influenced, be dominated by anything in the universe. The Creator’s influence is within us now, within our spiritual mind.

  • Jarheadusmc

    “What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he has faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him?…So faith also, if it have not works is dead in itself…Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?..faith without works is dead.” – James ii, 17, 20,24,26.

    “And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am noting.” 1 Cor. xiii. 2. and there is more to say in scripture that faith without works is dead that faith alone does not save anyone.

    “Whoever wishes to be saved must,above all, keep the Catholic faith, for unless a person keeps this faith whole and entire he will undoubtedly be lost forever.” Athanasian Creed – taught by all of Christianity in the 4th century.

    “Where Christ is, there is the Catholic Church”. St. Ignatius 106 A.D.
    St. Ignatius was a disciple of St. Polycarp and St. John the Apostle.

    “And I say to thee: That thou art Peter (Rock in Greek), and upon this rock I will build my church. And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shall bind on earth is bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth it shall also be loosed in heaven. – Matt 16: 18-19 and furthermore in scripture is said that “whose sins you shall forgive are forgiven and whose sins you shall retain are retained…and the gates of hell shall not prevail against thee until the consummation of the ages.

    It was St. Jerome and his monks, who in the 4th century by order of the Pope Damascus, that he was ordered to discern what was and was not authentic scripture: It was the Catholic Councils of Carthage, Rome, and Hastings in the 4th Century that gave us what we call the bible (collection of books) that we have today. You take the Catholic Churches word and authority that what you have is Scripture – although Luther removed seven books from the Old Test. parts of Daniel and 66 verses of Esther, he also wanted to throw out the Epistle of St. James, the Gospel of St. John and the Apocalypse, had it not been for his followers who warned him not to go that far.

    From the time of Christ until the 16th. century there existed only one faith – The Catholic Faith and the Catholic Church – save the Orthodox, whose doctrines are near identical and also originated from the Catholic Church until there split in the 10th century. And did not Christ warn that many will come later in my name – Protestants, now over 900 different Protestant sects – that would not be of me – but from the devil.

    Judas was the first to betray Christ, he was one of the chosen 12, and there have been many bad popes, including this one, a few before him, etc. The pope is infallible “only” when he describes a doctrine of faith and morals to be held by all the faithful under pain of sin – and that doctrine “must” be found in either scripture or tradition. Tradition existed before the bible, and most Christians had not the availability to read the bible until the time of the printing press, as it cost much money for the King to allow anyone to kill enough deer to use the hides to “handprint” a bible. All original bible manuscripts have in them the same books in the Old Test. as the Catholic bible, none are missing the seven books that the Protestants, (Luther) threw out – imagine here we have “Luther” a former Catholic priest who decides to throw out books of the bible. Luther added the word “alone” to faith to read “faith alone” to the scripture – imagine – against the warning of God not to touch scripture (Revelations).

    The teachings of the Catholic Church go back to early Christianity, to the very Apostles and Fathers of the Church themselves; nowhere do we find the teachings of Protestantism (all who are popes now) anywhere preceding the 16th century. All the books, works, epistles, teachings of the Catholic Church are found in all the early teachings of Christianity, in the books, epistles, etc of all the early Church Fathers and Christians.

    Protestantism is a work of the Devil which raised its head in the 16th century and took many from the true faith. You can name all the founders of the Protestant sects by name, Luther, Henry VIII, Calvin, Zwingli, Huxley, etc, etc, all men of dubious faith, all or most were former Catholic priests and seminarians, but only the Catholic Church claims “Christ” as their founder, only the Catholic Church can claim “Christ” as its founder, because Christ was its founder. And “Outside the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church” there is no salvation.

    That the Church is now under dire circumstances, attacked both from without and from “within” by even its highest members, is admitted, but Christ promised – The gates of hell shall not prevail (not be victorious over you) until the consummation of the ages. The Jews of the Old Test denied Christ and crucified their savior, and the Church has always been under attack, as it is human and divine, the human part is the fragile part, and Christ knew that of course and promised that when it seemed that the Church might be near defeat, that He would intervene in the last hour – his promise of “Indefectability”.

    • S. Klein

      Jarheadusmc, all this is very interesting but keep in mind, Jesus allegedly said, I was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jesus was born a Jew, circumcised and he died a Jew, “King of the Jews. Jesus was and is with the house of Israel, not with any church. One day there will be no church. For those who believe Jesus is coming back for the church, I say you have serve a false Jesus whom you do not know. Jesus is a Jew. He is with the Jews, that is with Israel. God pledged He would exiled Israel (not for rejecting messiah) but because the Jews did not keep His law and worshiped other gods. (see Jeremiah 9:12) God pledged repeatedly through His prophets that he would gather Israel back into the land in the end of days (as the title of this site suggests) as it is this day which gives the lie to Saint Augustine. It was Augustine who said the Jews by virtue of their failure and their humiliated state in exile stood as a witness to the truth of Christianity and the triumph of the Church over physical Israel (what he called the synagogue). That the children of Israel are back in their ancestral homeland land as God swore to His prophets, this is why the popes and the Vatican have hate Israel and support God’s enemies because regathered Israel stands as a witness to the truth of God’s word.

      The prophet wrote of restored Israel:

      “Sing, O barren one, who did not bear;
      break forth into singing and cry aloud,
      you who have not been in labor!
      For the children of the desolate one will be more
      than the children of her who is married,” says the LORD.

      “Enlarge the place of your tent,
      and let the curtains of your habitations be stretched out;
      do not hold back; lengthen your cords
      and strengthen your stakes.

      “For you will spread abroad to the right and to the left,
      and your offspring will possess the nations
      and will people the desolate cities….

      This the Church and the nations cannot abide so rightly did author of the second Psalm predict:

      Why are the nations in an uproar
      And the peoples devising a vain thing?
      The kings of the earth take their stand
      And the rulers take counsel together
      Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying,

      “Let us tear their fetters apart
      And cast away their cords from us!”

    • Well said for these naked and blind believers.

      • Kriativity

    • Lazykid

      The thief on the cross didn’t get baptized nor did he have time for works, so are you saying that he didn’t go to paradise because he didn’t have any works? If he didn’t go to paradise then are you saying Christ lied to him? I don’t think so. Jesus told the thief on the cross that, before this day is over you will be in paradise with me. The reason the thief is in paradise is because of his faith and nothing more.

      • Donna

        Lazykid, read the scriptures carefully.

        The thief does two things: he acknowledges his sin when he rebukes the other thief, admitting he deserved punishment (“We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve.”)

        Secondly, he acknowledges Jesus as King and Savior (“Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom”.)He hopes in Jesus’s mercy.

        This thief knew about Jesus. He knew enough to say,”this man has done nothing wrong.” He knew enough to ask Jesus to allow him in His Kingdom. He must have witnessed His life and miracles.

        How could he say that unless he knew about Jesus? How do we know he wasn’t baptized? In the Gospel of Matthew, we read that the multitudes – from Jerusalem, all of Judea and the whole region of Jordan – went to be baptized. Even the Pharisees and Sadducees went to be baptized.

    • Donna

      Wonderful response!!

      Thank you for taking the time to write this! I am extremely disheartened to see all the misinformation and lies that well-meaning Christians have accepted. Jesus said He founded His Church and the gates of hell would not prevail! However, according to most of the people responding on this site, the gates of hell DID prevail, and His Church morphed into the satanic Catholic Church. How is it that the Lord of the universe can keep all the planets on their courses and yet can’t manage His own Church? What does that say about Our Lord? The fact is, the Catholic Church is the only church that survived the destruction of Rome and the Dark Ages and is responsible for preserving scriptures. It is the only Church that Jesus could have founded. Every other church has been founded in the last 500 years by a man.

      People! Don’t be misled! Read history! Read the writings of the first Christians. They were Catholics!!

      • Ruach

        GOODNESS GRIEF !!!!

        The first Christians were NOT catholic!

        The first Christians wrote the New Testament and were called Disciples AND THEY WERE NOT CATHOLIC !!!

        And, …They wrote a lot about other Christians in the NT!

        The TRUE CHURCH existed for 300 years BEFORE the Babylonian/pagan/catholic church ever existed!

        THREE HUNDRED YEARS …BEFORE …the catholic church.

        YOU should read history! …history NOT written by a catholic!

        Again…

        GOODNESS GRIEF !!!

      • Scott

        You think you have to be a part of your organization to be saved… that it isn’t by ‘Faith,’ it’s by being a part of your Church because of XYZ reasons…

        The Church is the entire body of believers… not your organization because you can trace it back…

        If a Muslim receives a vision of Christ, and believes on Him, is he “not a Christian” unless he joins the Catholic Church? You would say “yes.”

        So you add another qualification for salvation– become a Catholic, and only a Catholic.
        That’s heresy.

      • Scott

        What the Catholic Church is now and has been for awhile is just as bad as what the Pharisees and Sadducees were in Jesus’ time: teaching their own traditions as “sacred” truth, and just as important. (Not to mention persecuting anyone who strays from their doxy.)

        The Catholic Church uses the scriptures to justify anything it chooses to do… as can be clearly seen by anyone with “eyes to see” it’s history.

        Satan has never prevailed against Christ, even though the Catholic Church did their best to hide Christ (the Word of God) from the world during the Dark Ages when they spoke in Latin and hid the Bible from people on purpose… Jesus still appeared (and does appear) to whom He chooses, and those people are indeed saved, when the believe on Him, regardless of their standing in your organization.

    • St Lawrence

      Amen

    • Scott

      I won’t be a part of ANY “church” that hid the Bible, spoke to people in a “Mysterious” dead language no one could understand, said you could “pay” your way into heaven, prays to anyone other than God, tortured and murdered innocent people as heretics, etc. etc. etc.

      By their fruits you shall know them.

      Satan (or should I say “His Satanic Majesty” for you Catholics?) knows the scriptures, and twists them to his own evil purposes and so did/does the Catholic Church…

  • rudy

    Only catholics are Christian, aliens WILL be baptized therefore, catholics are aliens…I like it.

  • I have to disagree with Pope about aliens being baptized , only those created in the imagine of God are acceptable, Jesus didn’t come to save anyone other than mankind .The Holy Spirit is what draws us to Christ, and once we accept God’s plan we become new , born again in his likness and the temple of the living God , his church.

  • Ruach

    In response to Cam Davis above …

    The thief on the cross was not baptized!

    Catholics don’t have a personal relationship with The Savior … they have a personal relationship with their catholic/Babylonian priest who interprets the Bible for them!…the same relationship the Babylonians had with their priests.

    Gee, What could go wrong there?

    True Christians don’t make idols, crown them, and then worship them either … that’s straight out of Babylon.
    Mary (of the RCC) is actually Semarimis of Babylon.
    That’s why the Babylonian/catholic priests make a graven image of her, then crown her …
    Because Semarimis was worshipped as a goddess!

    Read the Bible …for yourself.
    Read the history of the early church… for yourself.
    Read the history of the catholic church …for yourself.
    Then read “The Two Babylons” and find out what practice’s were taking place in Babylon…for yourself.

    And you’ll find out why the RCC …
    – Changed the True Sabbath to Sunday…
    – Changed the Ten Commandments so they could worship idols…

    – Etc., Etc. …

    The pope is not God!… and he is not head of the Church!

    The ONE who died for our sins is the HEAD of the Church!

    And HIM only !!!

    Ephesians 5:23
    …even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body(Church).

    And the Sabbath is not Sunday!

    The Savior said:
    Matthew 7:13-14

    Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

    I, personally, do not want to be among the Christian “masses” (of any denomination – the early Church was non-denominational) but, want to be counted among the few that find the strait gate and narrow path.

    To “find” means that you have to search!

    2 Timothy 2:15

    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Open a book …

    Study !!!

    Or don’t.
    Either way , spare us your Babylonian taught garbage.

    • maje7803

      Very well said and completely correct!

    • Donna

      How do you know the thief wasn’t baptized? We don’t know one thing about his life.

      What we do know is this thief knew about Jesus. He knew enough to say to the other thief,“Don’t you fear God, since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” The thief knew enough about Jesus to ask Him to allow him into His Kingdom. He had to have witnessed His life and miracles.

      How could he say that unless he knew about Jesus? How do we know he wasn’t baptized? In the Gospel of Matthew, we read that the multitudes – from Jerusalem, all of Judea and the whole region of Jordan – went to be baptized. Even the Pharisees and Sadducees went to be baptized. We have no way of knowing the identities of all who were baptized.

      • Ruach

        You said it yourself when you wrote:

        “We don’t know one thing about his life.”

        How wrong!

        We KNOW that he was saved … without any mention of baptism.

        You are ASSUMING that he was a follower AND was baptized.

        Not Biblical!

        • Brenda Murphy

          I do not believe that he was baptized. He was a thief…and probably a murderer, also. Either way, he had sinned. He confessed to Jesus, and repented. He believed in Jesus as the Messiah, therefore, that was faith, and that was his work, the only work he could do, as he was almost dead, hanging there, with Jesus.
          But, we have time to be baptized, if we will, it is a public showing of our faith. I think it is a requirement, if we can do it. But it is up to God to judge.
          Some will wait all their lives…..they had time to do other things, but when upon their death beds, then they want to come to Christ….mainly because they are afraid as to what might be waiting for them on the other side….it might be to late…only
          God can judge.

          • Ruach

            @ Brenda Murphy

            I agree with your statement above.

            A believer should be baptized.

            Baptism is an outward, public declaration (rite) of an inner belief.

            Baptism is physical and the inner belief of the heart that the Savior died for our sins is spiritual.

            And we know that the Father looks upon the heart.

            As you know, the lesson of the thief is to teach us that it is never too late to be saved! … as long as we have breath!

            A beautiful lesson … for those who have eyes to see, and ears to hear.

            1 Corinthians 2:12-14

            12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

            13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

            14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

          • Brenda Murphy

            Yes, a beautiful lesson, indeed! Our Lord is full of beauty and love.
            What a wonderful thing to know…the thief had no beauty in him, he led an ugly life…up until that point…..and then, he realized that….the man beside him……could take all that ugliness away!

            Amen!

          • Scott

            Yes, I agree. A believer, if they can, has a duty to be baptized. It is a requirement, but only God can judge.

            To those who think it’s ‘just’ an ‘outward showing’: you actually belittle a demonstrated and commanded act of Faith. It’s a work of faith, and one taken very seriously by the Apostles, because Jesus commanded it, and did it Himself.

            It has a powerful symbolic meaning: as Noah was saved from God’s judgment a la the flood, as the Isrealites were saved from Pharoah’s army through the Red (Reed) Sea, and symbolic death and resurrection into the risen Christ. It is a sacred ceremony that shouldn’t be belittled in anyway.

          • Ruach

            @ Scott

            In your comment to Brenda Murphy on baptism you wrote:

            “To those who think it’s ‘just’ an ‘outward showing’: you actually belittle a demonstrated and commanded act of Faith.”

            I think that you were referring to my comment on baptism
            to Brenda Murphy when you wrote it.

            First, let me say that I wrote the comment in haste and probably should have taken the time to be more clear…
            and would have if I’d known that it could/would have been mis-understood or mis-leading to someone.

            Second, Nowhere did I belittle baptism, … and certainly didn’t intend for my comment to make baptism seem as only an “outward” experience… if I did then that was my mistake.

            I was baptized in the early sixties and, as a Certified Clinical Hypnotherapist, I am fully aware of the mental,
            emotional, psychological, and spiritual implications of baptism upon a follower.

            Do notice that I wrote:

            “Baptism is an outward, public declaration (rite) “OF” an inner belief.”

            The definition of “of” is:

            – belonging to, relating to, or connected with (someone or something).-Merriam-Webster

            Please note that by posting the definition I am not trying to be offensive, or sarcastic, etc., to you …

            Only showing that in my comment that I did “connect” the outward with the inward.

            Because we are human … meaning, not perfect, … mistakes will be made.

            And we have to allow for this … to a certain degree!

            This is why the Bible instructs us to approach our erring
            brother or sister in a loving manner.

            It’s my sincere hope that I have cleared this up.

          • Brenda Murphy

            @ Ruach,
            I understood you perfectly….and I understand Scott perfectly.
            Both of you are solid in the faith. Thank you, brothers.

            The Lord is good!
            I believe that Jesus saves to the utmost.
            And you two love the Lord.
            I love the Lord.
            Remember…the patience of the saints. I just love that.
            There is LOVE in PATIENCE.
            Love is a work, and they say you don’t need works…well, then I guess you don’t need love, either, now do ya’?

            The thief loved Jesus…so he repented and got saved! Amen~~~

  • Maria

    I agree, Jesus said you must be born again to enter/see the Kingdom of Heaven, the 2nd birth ie being born from above and united with the Father through the Holy Spirit. Water Baptism (full immersion) is when you turn to God, repent and are forgiven of your sins by Jesus sacrifice, not infant baptism. This man is not the Head of the Church, Jesus Christ is head of his body, the church. I am beginning to think this new pope may be the false prophet spoken of in the Book of Revelation who will preceed the Antichrist. As for the mass and praying to Mary is all pagan rituals and religious and God hates religion but loves those who come to him through His Son Jesus, there is no other way, and definitely not because a person has become a Catholic.

  • Were you aware that the word catholic means universal, so could the Pope have been speaking in the general sense of “the church” made up of all who have believed in Jesus, honor Him, Praise Him, Obey Him and read and study His Holy Word to us.??? I feel sad when I hear the ugly statements made about any people who love and honor Our Lord and I am sure that saddens His precious heart and mind also. He wanted us all to be one. People who love him above all pray for those who may not understand the differences in the churches and different peoples ideas about how to decipherible. I have really enjoyed the ideas this ministry puts forth but find the criticism of the Catholic Church to be behind my understanding.I am sure most Catholics do not hate Protestants at all but love and pray for all who profess a love for Jesus, the Holy Spirit and Our Father.

    • Donna

      Amen!!

  • Dan (required)

    I’ve read the article but maybe I missed something . I understand that the pope may be biased about which church but still I’ve not read that he makes a claim that it has to be the Catholic church. I like your articles anyway, but the title is disappointing as the pope making a claim such as the title states would be sensational.

  • I see an error in the above comment that I made. Decipherible was supposed to be “decipher the Bible”. sorry and I pray god will bless us all with a ore complete understanding of His desires for us. FC

  • Dan (required)

    The pope making a statement including aliens is a bit eerie as some believe the great deception my involve a alien landing. Maybe the statement is a prelude to that very thing.

  • Dan (required)

    I have to give Kudos to Mr.Grider and his staff for bring the site back up to snuff. GOOD Job people!

    • Amen, thank you! The NTEB Staff has been growing, albeit slowly, and are doing our best to run the Lord’s ministry of NTEB as He would have it to be conducted. Please PRAY for us, and please SHARE OUR LINKS with as many as possible. Thank you!

  • Dan (required)

    If you could add (edit) that would be even better : )

  • stephen

    Just before his death St. Francis gave a prophecy to his followers. Two predictions that apply to this time are that ” At the time of this tribulation a man, not canonically elected, will be raised to the Pontificate,who,by cunning, will endeavour to draw many into error and death.” And the other: ” Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor, but a Destroyer”.
    This prophecy is now being fulfilled by Francis.
    Francis is the False Prophet, the Second Beast of Revelation.

    He is working diligently to build the One World Religion. This will cause a schism in the Catholic Faith. The Catholics who adhere to the Truth of Salvation through repenting of sin and obedience to Christ will be persecuted, along with all the non-Catholic brothers and sisters in all churches who have not fallen away from traditional Biblical Christianity. Those “Christians” who love men more than God will be seduced by the sinless “gospel” of the new Order and when the Antichrist appears, will be open to the Mark of the Beast.
    God in his mercy won’t desert these poor souls but send a Warning to waken the conscience of every person on earth 8 years old and over to the Truth. God is calling all his faithful servants to battle. For more on these and other events to come go to “www.thewarningsecondcoming.com”

    • Dan (required)

      I like your comment , but I would have liked it better had you told us where to find this comment of ST.Francis.

    • Dan (required)
    • Dan (required)

      I think it’s great to apply this to our times , but I have to say in reading it appears that ST. Francis clearly was speaking to that church during that time. The question is how did Francis come to know this (maybe through prayer or maybe a vision). But it seems clear that Francis was mistaken as to the time it would occur.

  • Teresa

    The pope saying he will baptize green aliens, my question is “Why”? Do we know of green aliens? I am a follower of Jesus, adopted into the family of God. Galatians 3:6-9>Even so Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are the sons of Abraham. The scripture foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “ALL the nations will be blessed in You.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham the believer.< I am justified through faith in Jesus Christ whom came from the lineage of Abraham and not of any man made church organization. I will never bow to any statute made by hands.

  • Christine Helrigel

    If Pope Francis can state that Martians can be saved if they show up here, he proves that he does not understand either the incarnation (or why God had to become the second Adam, made human like us, in order to die in our place) nor does he understand that we need to be saved because of the fall (or that the perfect Adam in his sin against God made all of us inheritors of fallenness and thus separated from God.) So if this POPE does not understand the most basic tenants of the reason for our fall, or our Salvation in Christ, how can he proclaim that none of us can be saved outside of his ‘Catholic Church?’ Even he, who does not understand the atonement, is not a true Christian. Why would martians need to become part of Christ the second Adam? If they fell and were in need of salvation, they would need God to make a special plan of salvation for them. I am truly horrified by the catholic apologist here who said protestantism is ‘the work of the devil’ too, since this is the most likely justification the catholic church used in the past to torture and butcher millions of Bible believing Christ following Christians for refusing to bow to Rome. Apparently the wicked heart of Rome has not changed, and Francis is a wolf in sheeps clothing, as many of us have suspected.

    • Teresa

      Yes, Christine, we are made in God’s image and why he came to rescue His image bearers. He did not create a way of escape from rebellion and sin for the fallen angels or any other of beings from outer space. We are made in His likeness. The Bible is clear that Christ is the second Adam. He was born and died and raised for us. We shall be raised in His likeness, not some alien from outer space nor of any angels.

      • Actually, we were not made in God’s image. According to Genesis 5:3, we have all been made in Adam’s FALLEN image which is why Jesus talked about being BORN AGAIN in John 3:3.

        “And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:” Genesis 5:3

        Because our very nature is cursed, we have to be reborn, or born AGAIN.

        “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3

        If we were made in God’s image, a new birth would not be needed.

        • Wilfred Mathias

          YHWH created man in HIS image and likeness in Genesis but Adam lost that in sin[became sin nature,(nature of Satan, devil but destroyed or put out of operation in a Believers’ life through the cross and death and burial, cleansed by His Blood into His Rightousness to stand before YHWH without stain of sin. Then in the Resurrection given HIS LIFE by the Spirit of GOD because the sacrifice of Blood Atonement for man is accepted by GOD HIMSELF. It is then man is born-again in his spirit by the Spirit of GOD and the image of GOD is being renewed in Christ Jesus. GOD bless!

        • Brenda Murphy

          Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

  • Jay

    Shawn, you got most of it right. Jesus told the thief on the cross ” this day you will be with Me in paradise.” I don’t think they pulled the nails out long enough for a dunk in the Jordan river. That being said, public water Baptism does identify one as a true believer in Jesus Christ.

  • daniel lee morgan

    Talk about the blind leading the blind. I believe Jesus made a small remark to the temple priests’, “yours is a house of desolation” not just about their temple, but their bodily temple! Instead of praying for aliens, try saying three times “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord” That would be a bit to much for this fraud ! This “pontis maximus”,he is nothing more than a bridge to no where!Or worse!

  • Joel Wally

    Tell me, Francis, is child trafficking and ritualized child murder part of the Catholic (i.e. Christian) dogma? And what role does the Ninth Circle play in these activities? Do tell us. Shouldn’t non-Christians know about this history BEFORE they consider baptism into your faith?

  • Louise

    In reading this article it is clear that it is filled with twisted truths…in order words, lies that sound good.

    Christ came and all who believe in Him are His Church, and we don’t stand alone. In everyday life we are to not neglect the assembling together…Christ promotes community…not being alone. The true church of Christ is not a catholic church…it is made up of all who receive Him as Lord and Savior.

    As for the grace of memory…we are always to remember what God has done for us, and give thanks for all He does. It is not of the memory of the voyage of the catholic church as though they alone have salvation and are in and of themselves the Body of Christ.

    As for the grace of hope to renew the covenant…the covenant is established, and it is between God and Jesus. I am secure in this as well as everyone else is who has been sealed by His Spirit because they are children of Almighty God in Christ.

    This article is so typical of satan who mixes a little chopped up twisted truth to give the flavor of godliness, and then mixes in all the lies and deceptions to lead others astray. It is totally against the Word of God, and it is a lie from hell.

    Oh, yea, and as for Martians…well, God sent Jesus to pay the price of sin for man … on planet earth. That was a stretch in trying to make a point of how open the catholic church is to love and acceptance…only it proved once again that God is not in this article.

    Last days…Jesus said, BE NOT DECEIVED

  • Name

    There is thorough documentation, online, of the Pope meeting with dozens of other religious leaders, which are not even remotely Christan. How does Catholicism regard them, when Protestants aren’t recognized?

    • Catholics are not Christians, they are Catholics, followers of the Pope.

      • Dan (required)

        I agree Catholics are not Christians. Rather the church is full of pedophiles. They should have torched all of Vatican City. Instead they barely say I’m sorry. Anyone that prides themselves a Catholic even now knowing the Vatican is corrupt and beyond reproach don’t deserve the body of Christ which has always been the true church !

        • Ruach

          My reply to your comment ended-up below.

          Ruach

  • c.a.

    Good grief.

  • Brenda Murphy

    Maybe the pope is an alien, LOL…..alienated from God.

    But, really, in all seriousness, the Catholic church is paganism at it’s best, leading many a soul to hell, in my opinion.

    2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
    2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
    2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
    2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

  • As someone who was a member of the Roman Catholic Church for nearly 30 years, I can ASSURE you that when any priest, bishop, nun or pope refers to “the Church”, it is ALWAYS a reference to the Roman Catholic corporation that they call the church.

    • Dan (required)

      Yes but you should know that your talking to a bigger audience and none of your readers had any reason to think the pope was referring to the Catholic church. Just admit the fault and move on

      • No fault here. The Pope said “the Church”, and he fully meant the Catholic Church and none other. The vast majority of the tens of thousands who read this article, about 98%, all understood exactly what he meant.

        • Ruach

          The pope definitely meant the catholic church … without a doubt.

          Why would he give credence to the True Church? … he’s not part of it!

          • Brenda Murphy

            right

        • Dan (required)

          Funny ! And you even give a percentage. From what poll? (yours) You must be right. Oh there’s someone who agrees with you. Come on the pope is biased but even he knows the other Christian faiths are a strength. But to assume the pope meant only the Catholic church based on your hunch doesn’t support the title. Even if you hold your breath and stamp your feet. You are a voice , but make sure you remember humility brother.

          Then again you could poll us , so we could really know the percentage. No ax to grind here. I wanted the title to be as sensational as you made it. Unfortunately it lacks credibility.

    • Donna

      I was a member of the Catholic Church for 28 years and left to become a Baptist. I returned to the RCC after 15 years when I finally realized that the Bible supports Catholic doctrine. I think it’s sad that you don’t consider Catholics as Christians. It is the Protestants who left a church that had been united for 1500 years. If the Church needed reform, that reform should have happened from within. You don’t just up and leave to start your own church. Even the name Protestant sums it up: Protesting. Against the Church. The Catholic Church remains intact after 2000 years. Most Protestant sects are not even 100 years old. This should make you think.

      • Ruach

        I would laugh if it was funny … but it’s not.

        You wrote:
        “The Catholic Church remains intact after 2000 years.”

        First – The catholic church is not 2000 yrs. old.

        Second – There was a TRUE Church that not only existed, but flourished for 300 yrs. BEFORE the sun-god-Mithra-worshipping Constantine outlawed it and established the Babylonian church (that you so love) by blending Babylonian paganism with Christianity.

        The Father forbids us to even have the names of other gods in our mouth but, there are those that believe that He is perfectly ok with sun-god worship in our churches (?)!

        Honoring Tammuz’s birthday on Dec. 25.
        Honoring Easter [honoring Tammuz and his mother Semerimis]
        Etc., etc.

        Trash that Babylonian/catholic garbage and pick up a KJV and read Ezekiel 8 and 9 and learn what The Almighty said would drive Him far from His Sanctuary.

        Ezkl. 8:
        6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.

        He DID NOT condone sun-god worship then and He does not condone it now !

        YHVH does not change!!!!

        Maybe your god does… whoever he may be.

        • Mark

          St. Ignatius of Antioch write in his Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110] “Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church”? Your statement is just factually wrong, as are your arguments. This is just 77 years from the crucifixion. The early fathers knew what was taught.

          • Brenda Murphy

            Mat 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
            Mat 13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
            Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
            Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
            Mat 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
            Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
            Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
            Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
            Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
            Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
            Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
            Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
            Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

            Many false religions claim to be Christ, but they are antichrist. These ‘religions or sects, or cults, are the birds that lodge in the branches of the true faith.
            Christ will separate them, when He comes.

            1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
            1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

    • Mark

      Your interpretation is just plain wrong. If repetitive prayers are hated by God, why did Jesus do it?

      Matthew 26:39-44
      “And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.”
      And he came to the disciples and found them sleeping; and he said to Peter, “So, could you not watch with me one hour? Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
      Again, for the second time, he went away and prayed, “My Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, thy will be done.” And again he came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were heavy. So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words. ”

      NOTE: “he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words.” that is repetitive prayer (said the same words 3 times). You attribute to scripture things you do not understand and have completely wrong. Scripture mentions babbling and vain prayer, and using many words to be heard etc., which does not fit a rosary

      Other examples of repetitive prayer in scripture (from http://www.scripturecatholic.com/vain_and_repetitious_prayer.html) include:

      Luke 18:13 – the tax collector kept beating his breast and praying “God be merciful to me, a sinner.” This repetitive prayer was pleasing to God because it was offered with a sincere and repentant heart.

      Acts 10:2,4 – Cornelius prayed constantly to the Lord and his prayers ascended as a memorial before God.

      Rom. 1:9 – Paul says that he always mentions the Romans in his prayers without ceasing.

      Rom. 12:12 – Paul commands us to be constant in prayer. God looks at what is in our heart, not necessarily how we choose our words.

      1 Thess. 5:17 – Paul commands us to pray constantly. Good repetition is different than vain repetition.

      Rev. 4:8 – the angels pray day and night without cessation the same words “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.” This is repetitious prayer that is pleasing to God.

      Psalm 136 – in this Psalm, the phrase “For His steadfast love endures forever” is more repetitious than any Catholic prayer, and it is God’s divine Word.

      Dan. 3:35-66 – the phrase “Bless the Lord” is similarly offered repeatedly.

      I have a question for you, were does scripture say it has all information? Where does scripture say it is sufficient (stands completely alone) for ALL truth, instruction, knowledge or understanding?

      Scripture is inerrant, it is not infallible (you certainly have interpreted it wrong).

  • Ruach

    In response to Name above…

    You commented:

    There is thorough documentation, online, of the Pope meeting with dozens of other religious leaders, which are not even remotely Christan. How does Catholicism regard them, when Protestants aren’t recognized?

    I say “good point!”.

    It’s widely known that the Babylonian/catholic church leaders have been working very hard for many years to unite ALL religions into the One World Religion of the last days.

    Keep in mind that when The Almighty came down at Babylon He did NOT destroy the Babylonian religion that was practiced there…Daniel’s interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream confirms this (as well as other scripture).

    He only stopped the building of the tower so that it was not completed.

    The people (everybody) were united under “one religion” at that time.
    And this was not a good thing!

    Gen. 11:6
    And the Lord said, Behold, THE PEOPLE IS ONE, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and NOW nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

    This was cause enough for The Almighty to intervene!

    They eventually scattered throughout the world according to their own languages. The only thing that they had in common was the religion that they took with them… Babylonianism, that’s the only religion they knew.

    This is why we see pyramids built throughout the world …they are the (attempted) re-creation of the tower of Babel built by the scattered peoples.
    As in Egypt, they all contain sun and serpent symbology, or are, at least, layed out to the sun and other heavenly bodies… all traced back to the sun-god Nimrod, Satan’s front-man and first antichrist at Babylon.

    Babylon wants to re-unite ALL of the people again under ONE religion as they were at the Tower…attempting to reverse what The Almighty done at the Tower of Babel.

    To embrace these religions is part of the pope’s job as False Prophet to “gather them under his wing” (so to speak).

    (Note that the pope recently declared that “all religions are true”.)

    The REAL task is to convince TRUE Christian believers to join MYSTERY, BABYLON the GREAT, The MOTHER of HARLOTS and ABOMINATIONS of the EARTH.

    I think the pope’s statement of

    “… people cannot be Christians without the (RC)Church…”

    is an attempt to “psych”, “trick”, “fool”,
    “deceive”, or even possibly “shame” non-catholics into believing that the RC church is the only path to salvation.

    When the alien-false-savior appears and gives validation to the RC church, then those who are not DEEPLY rooted in the TRUTH will easily fall for the “delusion” of 2 Thessalonians 2:11.

    It is the ones who are deeply rooted in the TRUTH that are in the pope’s crosshairs.

    By the way… the RC church has been pushing an alien savior since the mid nineties.

    RC church OWNS a large telescope on Mount Graham in Arizona and it has an infrared attachment on it that the RC scientists have named LUCIFER.

    The second definition of antichrist is : false savior.

    Heads up !

  • Exodus 20:3-6
    3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
    4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
    5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
    6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

    The record of God Is, that we DONT make or WORSHIP
    IDOLS of ANY description.

    Rev9:20
    20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

    There will be a religion that continues to provoke God
    to the bitter end ! As you see in Rev 9:20

    1Tim2:5
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    1 John5:11-13
    11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
    12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
    13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

    The record of salvation is found only in Jesus Christ !

    God Bless our saviour Jesus Christ !

  • Bean Bagger

    How can they have the truth when you look at the Catholic church and study its history.

    Read Fox Book of Martyrs and be astonished at the wickedness of the Catholic church.

    There have been THOUSANDS of pedophile priest documented in the Catholic church. It is a MAGNET for sick men to practice their sexual debauchery.

    There is no truth in the Catholic church. Just lies and murders.

  • linzilou77

    I think it’s just awesome that people are commenting so thoroughly and whole heartedly about God…Jesus…and quoting the bible… whether believers or not. Where two or three are present…I am with thee. I’m pretty sure that is somewhere in the bible right?

  • Melvin

    Amen Shawn!!!! I give you a standing ovation!!! Praise God for you👋👋👋

  • DW

    Aw, how charming: the False Prophet spoken of in the book of Revelation, blathers more of his nonsense to further mislead the sheeple .

  • truthseeker

    Jesus said that: ‘You will know the TRUTH..and that the TRUTH will set you free~~!
    Of all the world’s religion’s who are claiming to be the right one..Whether Jews or Catholics or Born Again or Protestiants or Buddists or Islamist or Hindu..They all have the same beliefs in common..For example the belief in the world-wide flood. Also the story of Creation! The belief that man fell in sin and fell out of grace with an Almighty God..And for thousands of years they have been trying to figure out why we sin and why we grow old and why we all die. And why can some trees and some turtles live longer then us humans?? It’s because we never were supposed to ever die~~! We were never supposed to sin!! God created us to all live forever in the beautiful ‘Eden’ and be perfect-happy and healthly. But are first parents & Satan & his demons want the whole world to not know the true God..and to not know His name which is the Hebrew letters YHWH= the English form is JEHOVAH!!
    Who are the only people that take His name & that live up to their Christian standards by not killing their own Christian brother from another Nation in time of war?? It’s none other than–Jehovah’s Witnesses!! So where have you people been
    when they have and had been warned you all of the last days?? Asleep in your beds on Saturday mornings or laughing throwing water in their faces..But Jehovah God’s judgement is upon all false Christians and all false Babalyon religions..And you will all fall by the sword..that you have brought upon yourselves..And Gog of Magog’s crowd-You and Satan & all the demons will be gone forever from God’s face..through our Messiah-our King Jesus & the 144,000-kings & priests with Christ to rule for a thousand years over a great crowd of perfect humans forever & ever!! Amen-Come Lord quickly..Amen!! Revelation 21: 3 & 4…

    • Emery

      They also have one thing in common, in that they are all false religion. False faith. Any divergence from the original Christianity makes one God’s enemy. NO religion created by man is acceptable to God. They are essentially listed as works of the flesh in Galations chapter 5. Participation in which prevents one from inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven. Satan is misleading the entire inhabited Earth, and religion is his tool. He is very successful in that effort. The final battle will result in 7.5 billion deaths planet wide. There are around 7 million who practice the original Christianity that Jesus taught. The scriptures say that those who remain faithful to the end, which is just about now, will survive. No one else will.

    • Ruach

      That’s funny!!!

      Charles Taze Russel was a 33rd Degree Freemason.

      That REALLY sums up the Jehovah’s Witness’s doctrine if you have REALLY studied religion, history and Freemasonry but…

      I’ll go one step further.

      Open a copy of your (1950 translation)of your New World (Order)Translation bible and read the forward …

      “The original writings of the Christian Greek Scriptures, commonly called the New Testament, were inspired. No translation of these Sacred writings into another language, is inspired… The Greek text that we have used as a basis of our NW translation is the widely accepted Westcott and Hort text (1881) by reason of its admitted excellence. But we have also taken in to consideration other texts including that prepared by D. Eberhard Nestle and that compiled by the Spanish JESUIT scholar Jose Maria Bover and that by the other JESUIT scholar A. Merk…”

      The JW’s that come to my door have no idea of what Freemasonry is and are clueless to who JESUITs are too!

      The JW’s used JESUITS and ROMAN CATHOLIC manuscripts to aid in the translation of the New World Translation… (and you thought that the JW’s actually taught AGAINST Catholicism!… all you’re doing is promoting it!)

      The JW’s used Catholic Church Sources in order to produce its New World Translation.

      Westcott and Hort were two Satanists, founders of the Hermes Club and members of famed Russian witch Madam Blavatsky’s Theosophy cult!

      Dr. Bill Grady:

      “Wescott and Hort, were a pair of unsaved liberals whose open Vatican sympathies cast them as the consummate Jesuit plants.”

      “To regain her corner on the market, Rome created an elite paramilitary Gestapo unit that would make Himmler’s SS appear like a Sunday school….sparking what historians call, the counter-Reformation. The infamous Society of Jesus was founded by Ignatius De Loyola in 1534, more commonly known as the JESUITs….”

      “They are the most militant arm of PAPAL power to this day. Their goals were to reclaim those that had left Catholicism and to attack the reliability of the Textus Receptus. They would use ANY METHOD to regain control including confiscation, treachery, torture and assassination. Jesuits will stop at nothing to bring the whole world under subjection to the Vatican. The Jesuits ploy was to entice Protestants back to Rome. They knew they could not bring anyone back into the bondage of Catholicism as long as true believers clung to the pure text. So the Jesuits plotted to replace our Bible with pro-Catholic readings of Jerome’s Vulgate. This would cause the Protestant scholars to believe our text was unreliable, unreadable and not scholarly. Once programmed, the scholars would attack the pure text, all the while, believing they were doing God’s service.”

      Westcott and Hort took two WASTE Catholic Sources (the Sinaiticus and the Vaticanus) to produce their WASTE version of the Bible, Nestle and the New World Translation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, written by Senior Jesuits Jose Maria Bover and A. Merkz, followed Westcott and Hort.

      (Now you know why JW’s are taught that you can’t be saved if you leave the JW’s … it’s CATHOLIC doctrine!)

      Go here and read the oath that Jesuits take:

      The JESUIT EXTREME OATH of INDUCTION
      http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=jesuit

      That is … IF you want to know the TRUTH!

      Yes … the TRUTH will set you free!

      I love it when JW’s come to my door …

  • Emery

    This pope, as all popes, is insane, and is a Satan worshiper (must sacrifice a newborn to ascend to papacy – Ninth Circle ceremony)and is NOT Christian. No Catholic is. They are lied to in believing they are Christian, by the church itself. True Christianity is what Jesus taught. NO man made religion practices that form of Christianity. Seven million on the Earth do, however. They are the ones that will escape adverse judgement by God in the final battle. Everyone else is toast. Galations 5:19-21 lists the works of the flesh. Sects and divisions are included in those works of the flesh. Involvement in any of the works of the flesh means no Kingdom of God for the participant. Sects are divisions, divergencies of Christianity. A Christian-like religion with beliefs differing from the original. Any divergence from the original is a death sentence from God. Think about it. Satan is misleading the ENTIRE inhabited Earth. Religion is the vehicle by which he misleads. All religions are man made. They don’t come from God or from His only begotten SON, Jesus the Christ, the messiah, the teacher of the ONLY TRUE FAITH THAT GOD APPROVES OF.

  • Coming closer to the time of the end, the Jesuit Pope has now revealed more of what he believes and this could be the start of getting all “christians” back to Babylon, before he gets the muslims on board too, as Islam is the other main branch of Babylon.
    And if “aliens” come, I doubt if they would be good. Most aliens are really demons, so they should feel right at home in the Catholic church (aka Babylon).

  • Sharon

    Jesus Christ nor any of the apostles tortured nor murdered anyone. During the Reformation, Satan showed he was the head of the RC church. History will repeat itself. Remember, the Lord Jesus Christ commands us to pray for our enemies. Speak in love because I believe true believers will come out of the RC church as in all the different religions on this Earth. This Pope I truly believe to be the False Prophet of Revelations. Lord we pray for workers for the harvest. We pray that our flight not be in winter. Let me show my love for you Dear Lord by following your commandments. Let us remember the Lord’s Command to pray for one another. I NEED your prayers also please.

  • Emery

    Right again. The pope is a liar. One cannot be a Christian WITH the church, any church. All the pope is up to is to further the fulfillment of prophecy; the extermination of Christendom. Please, bring it on.

    • emery richards

      Kevin Rilott;
      The inspired word of God does NOT say the “church” is the pillar and foundation of truth.
      Neither does the holy spirit reside in the Catholic Church. God’s spirit does NOT lead ANYONE to the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church, and ALL sects/denominations of Christendom are NOT Christian, and are NOT approved of by God. They are FILLED with things pagan. God HATES anything pagan.

  • Emery

    My comment is solely based on God’s viewpoint and words. The scriptures are quite clear that involving with any sect of Christianity means a judgement of death. Christianity as the faith that Jesus taught is the only approved form of worship. No man made religions with a church and clergy or any other religion. Not adhering to the faith that Jesus taught exactly, is not approved and means you are toast. It’s not me saying it, it is God, through Jesus and other prophets, like John, when he wrote the revelation by Jesus to him while on Patmos, just before he died.

  • Emery

    There is NO evidence that Russell was a Freemason. Even so, your assertions hold no water, as the understanding of the scriptures is constantly refined, by constant study. Beliefs of the scriptures from 1950 and beliefs as of today are in many ways different, as the understanding of them is more fully understood. Also, God’s witnesses do not believe that if you leave the congregation you cannot be saved. If you adhere to the scriptures, you are still approved by God for being saved into the new age after Armageddon. You are somewhat erring by not associating with the congregation, but your assertion is incorrect.

    • Mark

      ” as the understanding of the scriptures is constantly refined, by constant study. Beliefs of the scriptures from 1950 and beliefs as of today are in many ways different,” which shows you do not in fact teach “truth” but just your current opinion as to what “Truth” is. As such the JWS are not authoritative. How can you say the JWS are finally right now? By your own admission you have got things wrong. The Cross and the past use of it by the JWS is a good example (and the JWS use of it was that of a Masonic symbol Crown with a tilted Cross). You go on and on how it isn’t a cross now, can’t be a cross, must be a “torture Stake” etc. And yet in the past the JWS taught it was a cross. You said on 18 January 2016 at 11:14 am “The cross is the pagan symbol “tau”, signifying Tammuz, a pagan made up god.” and you said “ll are pagan to one degree or another, and are NOT approved of by God, in fact, he basically said that involvement in ANY such religion means a judgement of DEATH.” on 24 January 2016 at 4:43 pm even with the past use of pagan symbols. You also stated “. All religions believing in things pagan, like immortal soul, hell fire, cross, and the like, …” on 11 November 2015 at 7:44 pm. You claim “Constantine. He mixed PAGAN and Christian beliefs ” and the JWS have done the same thing!

      Get out of that PAGAN system of evil that is the JWS!

  • Emery

    It’s funny that anyone has the cojones to claim that God’s word supports Catholicism. That’s like saying God supports Satan. The only version of the scriptures that supports Catholicism, or any other religion, is the Douhay Rheims and the King James. They support it because they are not translations strictly, they are more interpretations and indoctrinations. They are not accurate. They remove God’s personal name almost 7000 times. They use hell for Hades and Sheol. Those are at the least, totally inaccurate translations, and at the most, outright lies designed to help Satan mislead the entire inhabited Earth. Hell does not exist in the original texts at all. Not once.

  • The next few years as I understand it will be telling. Prophecy is coming to bear on this planet. Jesus is soon to return. We as Christians, and sinners need to repent and prepare for the days ahead. The first blood moon has occurred as of April 15, of this year. The next is due as of October 8th of this year. No man knows the day nor the hour of the next big event on the prophetic calendar, but the Father. That event is the Rapture of the Church that Christ died for. Our hope is close at hand. The Pope has only a short time to repent as the rest of the world does. Time will tell what is what.

  • Emery

    The Bible says that the 2550 days ended in October of 1914, and that’s when it says Jesus ascends to his heavenly throne. He is not returning to Earth in a visible form. He IS coming invisibly with the 144,000 to destroy those opposing God, his Father. All those that are part of Babylon the Great, including all religions and governments. That’s almost 7.5 billion dead as a result of judgement. The Bible says they will not be resurrected. All those that died outside of the judgement/s will be resurrected in their order. Last ones first and so on. The rapture is a teaching of religions, and not a Bible teaching., It is not real. What people call rapture, is the remnant of the 144,000 being transformed into spirit bodies and being taken to Heaven to co-rule with Jesus, and to help him wage war against Babylon. Remember, Revelation to John says that only 144,000 will EVER go to Heaven. The rest have a hope of resurrection on a paradise Earth. That’s what the Bible says, not any religion.

    • Dan

      @ EMERY , your comment is very interesting as I have not heard or read Christ returning in this manner(invisible). I would like to learn more about this. Is there a link to this information?

      • MRH

        @Dan: Beware, as Emery is a JW 🙁

        • Dan (required)

          Thanks Mark I’m aware that Emery is a JW . I’m not completely familiar with their teachings. Know your adversary Mark as I believe Ruach does.

          • MRH

            Dan, I know a bit about JW teachings, as I have friends whom are JW’s. And all I can say is that JW doctrine is very wrong. JW’s are works salvation oriented, which is contrary to Paul’s ‘grace through faith’ teachings.

          • Dan (required)

            Mark now that explains why you came up with that nonsense that Christ is a high angel. I understand now where you got this from. It’s been years since I’ve read anything concerning JW. Truth is they’ve only been significant to themselves ,and of course the people the disturb knocking door to door.
            Mark be more discerning when choosing friends.

            As for this guy Trolling on a christian site he’s getting the attention he’s lacking in his other life

          • MRH

            “Mark now that explains why you came up with that nonsense that Christ is a high angel. I understand now where you got this from”

            @Dan: Nope, I got such straight from the bible. I don’t follow any religious institutional teachings. Only what the bible relates to me, sometimes external evidences.

            1Co 15:45 KJV – And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

            Heb 1:13-14 KJV – But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

            P.S. Angels are spirits are angels. Christ is now an angel in the highest next to God 😉

          • Brenda Murphy

            Jesus is higher than the angels, Mark, for he is King.
            The angels are his ‘ministering spirits’, as I’ve said below, on your other post.

        • MRH

          “Jesus is higher than the angels”

          @Brenda: Yes I’m fully aware of that fact. I meant angel only in the spirit sense, as God is a spirit (and angels are spirits), and likewise will we believers become spirits (of angelic form) in the resurrection 🙂

          P.S. I admit that I can’t even fathom immortal ‘spirit’ form aspect, being presently of mortal flesh and blood. But I’m sure it will be far better than the dying shell we now have. Eternal slaves unto survival in a mad world, and constantly tormented by temptation 🙁 I trust you can somewhat relate?

          Not sure about you (?), but I want to go home, and from the holy signs, we are close to the edge now? So I’m just biding my time as we believers all are, patiently waiting, watching the holy signs develop daily even 😉

          • Brenda Murphy

            I am always homesick for heaven, Mark.
            This old world is sick and dying, just like the rest of us.
            We all get old, and fade away.
            But if we endure, then we will make it home.
            I hope we do.
            God is good.
            We all have trials and temptations, if we were not God’s, then we wouldn’t have any.
            But we must remember, Christ said, we could do all things thru him, he strengthens us, if we truly have him living in us.

            Jas 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
            Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

          • MRH

            Brenda, if we have the Spirit born within us we are eternally safe and secure. And it is through faith in the gospel that we receive the Spirit, not by our works 🙂

            P.S. If Paul wanted the church to endure the hour of the Beast, then I think he would have told us, warned us? 😉

            Hint: There is not even one tiny indication in all of the church epistles, of the church being subject unto the wrath of the second Beast. All such is only found in Revelation, and not even until chapter 13, the latter half. In fact the tribulation of the living saints ends before the second beast even prevails! And we all know that the rapture occurs immediately after tribulation, then comes the wrath? Anyway, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on certain end time prophetic elements for now? 🙁

  • JCs

    Satan comes disguised as an angel of Light and so does his minister and twistting the Word to fit there dirty deeds is but a snare, can quote scripture perfect but he comes but to steal, kill and destroy ~ There hidden agendas are to take as many with them to hell, a place not created for us but them, there is only one God and His Name is Jesus Christ and Yes the gates of hell will not prevail ! In the Name of Jesus Christ ! We Win ! No religion ,, For we wrestle not flesh and blood but them and they are right now amongst us, evan in these post, be not decieved , they wil always have a come back with words but they are nothing but Devils in disguise with Lies Be ready for the Lord will be calling us Home, and anyone left with whats coming you do not want to be here read the word KJV less watered down and save your own soul, all religion does is tie a stone to ur feet and keep you from ever knowing Truth which God called His Word and the Word became flesh and dwelt amonst us ,,, settle it now cuz we do not know when the Lord is going to call us up whats coming upon this earth is all holly wood movies rolled into one and destruction as satan wrath upon anyone in that time and Gods upon them and the earth will be shaken but the Lord Jesus will cast down all stars and constalations fallen angels and there domaines and will throw the anti christ and false prophet into the lake of fire and then bind satan to the bottom less pit, these who decieve only doing that cause they already been sentenced by Jesus fallen angels are already judged and so they are so angry with God that there going to try take as many with them as they can ,,, will you be not just ready but watching and waiting, the whole point of us not knowing when Jesus would come is that one of a relationship and not religion , seek Him now while He may be found In Jesus Name We wrestle Not flesh and Blood http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+6%3A10-18&version=KJV and that goes for all that say Jesus was just a Prophet, Jehovah witnesses, mormans and all who say He was the messaiah but Not God ,,, He is and was and is to come ~ Will You be ready or faked out ??? Revelations 13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+13+&version=KJV they here and now but will rise and walk this earth you will then have to conten with them, once all true christians are taken, fear is not what we see now hearts will fail from all thats coming

    • Dan (required)

      @ Mark you misunderstand 1 Corinthians 15:45. Mark you have to keep reading through to verse 48. Paul is telling us that man had an (earthly body) but Christ (is from heaven with a heavenly body. It doesn’t mean he is an angel Mark as I have told you before.
      I’m not sure if you know this but JW believe that Christ is the angel Michael. That’s were I thought you got this understanding from.(Heck I needed NTEB staff to remind me of JW beliefs because their so insignificant) Making Christ an angel is not biblical doctrine. When you do this your misunderstanding what your reading.

      • MRH

        “I’m not sure if you know this but JW believe that Christ is the angel Michael.”

        @Dan: Yes I know, they get it from below scripture 😉

        Dan 10:13, 21 KJV – But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. … But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

        Dan 12:1 KJV – And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

        Jde 1:9 KJV – Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

        Rev 12:7 KJV – And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

        P.S. I admit I don’t exactly understand Michael aspect 🙁

        • Brenda Murphy

          Mark, Michael, the archangel, is always the one that stands up for the Jewish people, I believe.
          He is the warrior angel, one of the most powerful of them all. That is why he is called ‘one of the chief princes’, and the ‘ great prince which standeth for the children of thy people.’
          He is not Jesus, for Jesus is the King. Angels are ministering spirits of Christ. I hope that helps some.

          • MRH

            Brenda, you might be correct in that, as after all, Daniel is written to, and concerns the Jews, not the church 🙂

            P.S. Daniel had no clue there would even be a future church 😉

  • Emery

    Satan does come to destroy. His agenda is to prove that God has no right to be the sovereign of the universe. He wants to prove that mankind will not love and obey God, unless they think they will get something out of it. The job of Christians, not Christendom (religions of the world claiming to be Christian, Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Evangelical, SDA, Mormon, and all the others) is to prove Satan wrong. Not many work toward that, though. About seven million or so. The rest, by default, follow Satan. If they are members of a man made religion, they are on Satan’s side.

    As for hell, the Bible does NOT say hell exists. Only the King James and the Catholic Bible, and a couple others, say it does. They are not the same as the original texts in Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek. They are misleading, just like Satan. The Bible doesn’t say that we have an immortal soul, either. It says, the soul that dies, leaves nothing, has no thoughts, cannot go anywhere, because it is dead. Genesis says that when God breathed life into Adam, he BECAME a living soul, not that he had a soul. So, no immortal soul, no hell. No going to Heaven when you die. Only the annointed 144,000 will do that. The rest either die permanently during the final battle, or are resurrected into a paradise Earth post Armageddon.

    It is important that you do not get deceived by the King James or the Douhay Rheims Bibles. They are not honest, and do not say what the original texts say. If you use them, you will have all sorts of wrong ideas about God, and that spells doom during Armageddon.

    • Ruach

      That’s funny!!!

      Charles Taze Russel was a 33rd Degree Freemason.

      That REALLY sums up the Jehovah’s Witness’s doctrine if you have REALLY studied religion, history and Freemasonry but…

      I’ll go one step further.

      Open a copy of your (1950 translation)of your New World (Order)Translation bible and read the forward …

      “The original writings of the Christian Greek Scriptures, commonly called the New Testament, were inspired. No translation of these Sacred writings into another language, is inspired… The Greek text that we have used as a basis of our NW translation is the widely accepted Westcott and Hort text (1881) by reason of its admitted excellence. But we have also taken in to consideration other texts including that prepared by D. Eberhard Nestle and that compiled by the Spanish JESUIT scholar Jose Maria Bover and that by the other JESUIT scholar A. Merk…”

      The JW’s that come to my door have no idea of what Freemasonry is and are clueless to who JESUITs are too!

      The JW’s used JESUITS and ROMAN CATHOLIC manuscripts to aid in the translation of the New World Translation… (and you thought that the JW’s actually taught AGAINST Catholicism!… all you’re doing is promoting it!)

      The JW’s used Catholic Church Sources in order to produce its New World Translation.

      Westcott and Hort were two Satanists, founders of the Hermes Club and members of famed Russian witch Madam Blavatsky’s Theosophy cult!

      Dr. Bill Grady:

      “Wescott and Hort, were a pair of unsaved liberals whose open Vatican sympathies cast them as the consummate Jesuit plants.”

      “To regain her corner on the market, Rome created an elite paramilitary Gestapo unit that would make Himmler’s SS appear like a Sunday school….sparking what historians call, the counter-Reformation. The infamous Society of Jesus was founded by Ignatius De Loyola in 1534, more commonly known as the JESUITs….”

      “They are the most militant arm of PAPAL power to this day. Their goals were to reclaim those that had left Catholicism and to attack the reliability of the Textus Receptus. They would use ANY METHOD to regain control including confiscation, treachery, torture and assassination. Jesuits will stop at nothing to bring the whole world under subjection to the Vatican. The Jesuits ploy was to entice Protestants back to Rome. They knew they could not bring anyone back into the bondage of Catholicism as long as true believers clung to the pure text. So the Jesuits plotted to replace our Bible with pro-Catholic readings of Jerome’s Vulgate. This would cause the Protestant scholars to believe our text was unreliable, unreadable and not scholarly. Once programmed, the scholars would attack the pure text, all the while, believing they were doing God’s service.”

      Westcott and Hort took two WASTE Catholic Sources (the Sinaiticus and the Vaticanus) to produce their WASTE version of the Bible, Nestle and the New World Translation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, written by Senior Jesuits Jose Maria Bover and A. Merkz, followed Westcott and Hort.

      (Now you know why JW’s are taught that you can’t be saved if you leave the JW’s … it’s CATHOLIC doctrine!)

      Go here and read the oath that Jesuits take:

      The JESUIT EXTREME OATH of INDUCTION
      http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=jesuit

      That is … IF you want to know the TRUTH!

      Yes … the TRUTH will set you free!

      I love it when JW’s come to my door …

    • MRH

      Scripture states that we are saved by grace through faith, not by works. All large religious institutions require works salvation, including the JW’s, which is false teaching. Also Charles Taze Russel was buried in a pyramid tomb in a Masonic graveyard.

      As for hell it does exist by the bible, but not as proclaimed by many churches. Hell is not an eternal burning fire, but rather is an eternal timeless bodiless trapping black void, as scripture clearly declares. Hell is being cut off from God completely forever.

      • Brenda Murphy

        Hell is fire, and also a Godless place of eternal darkness, Mark Hodge.

        Jas 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

        Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
        Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

        • MRH

          “Hell is fire, and also a Godless place of eternal darkness”

          @Brenda Murphy: You certainly drive a hard biblical bargain girl 😉

          Anyway, I’ve never been to hell, and so therefore I can’t speak from experience. Also Lazarus and the Rich man are a parable, like all such Jesus preached unto the masses.

          Mat 13:34-35 KJV – All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

          P.S. Regarding hell fire, consider the following OT passage 😉

          Mal 4:1-3 KJV – For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

          Hint: When a house burns down, what is left of it but ashes?

          • Brenda Murphy

            You sound like a JW, Mark? lol

        • MRH

          “You sound like a JW, Mark? lol”

          @Brenda Murphy: Not at all, I just read the bible 😉

          Jer 51:57 KJV – And I will make drunk her princes, and her wise men, her captains, and her rulers, and her mighty men: and they shall sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.

          Jde 1:13 KJV – Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

          Rev 3:5 KJV – He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

          P.S. The ‘lake of fire’ equals eternal oblivion 🙁

  • Emery

    Just as when Jesus walked the Earth and he was reviled, and his teachings were reviled, and the same was done to his followers, you and people like you still do the same old tired thing. Attack those who don’t believe as you do, even though you know nothing factual about them. Your “research” comes from apostates and “religions” of the world. Both are enemies of the truth, God, and Jesus. You made your choice not to follow the truth and God, and to follow Satan’s misleading Christendom. That’s your choice. But, the consequences probably won’t be to your liking.

  • Emery

    The first Catholics didn’t rear their non-Christian heads until over 400 years after Jesus’ death. They accepted all sorts of b.s., like Socrates’ teaching of a trinity, and they adopted the Pagan cross instead of the torture stake as the instrument of Jesus’ death. Hellfire and immortal soul appeared around that time also, not during Jesus’ or his disciples lives. Those lies were introduced into Christendom to attract pagans to the so-called Christian churches to increase their numbers, and therefore their monetary intake. Those lies were invented solely for money. The original texts of the Bible include NO hell, immortal soul, cross or trinity. King James and Douhay Rheims Bibles were the first to include such lies.

    • Mark

      You say “The catholic church was started about 400AD. If that were so how could St. Ignatius of Antioch write in his Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110] “Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church”? Your statement is just factually wrong, as are your arguments. This is just 77 years from the crucifixion. The early fathers knew what was taught.

      The scriptures are clear and not distorted. Read the early fathers, see what they taught, you will find the Catholic Church.

      • Emery

        Because saints are a fabrication of the Catholic church also. No catholic church is mentioned in the scriptures, neither are saints. You WILL find them in the fake Bibles like King James and the Catholic Douhay Rheims Bibles. Saint means holy. God is holy, not so called saints, especially as proclaimed by clergy, who also do not appear in the scriptures. Sects of Christianity, clergy, churches, and the like are all works of the flesh. Involvement in them means being an enemy of God. The Catholic church especially, is, as are all other man made religions, a tool of Satan in misleading the entire inhabited Earth. When all sects and the rest of Babylon the Great are destroyed, you will have a brief moment of realization that you’ve been lied to your entire life, then you will be dead forever.

  • JCs

    satan comes disguised but to kill, steal and destroy ,,, if any one really wants to know the Word of God they will seek Him and find Him Gpds Will be done and the 14000 are followed by a great multitude that no man can number be not decieved many share there own views and wisdome, seek after Gods by the Holy Spirit In Jesus Name

  • Mike

    “Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church [Letter to the Smyrnaeans(c. A.D. 107)].
    -St. Ignatius of Antioch, who lived from ~ A.D. 35-107. He was the third bishop of Antioch and tradition records that he was a disciple of St. John the Apostle.

  • JCs

    satan comes disguised but to steal, kill and destroy ,,, if any one really wants to know the Word of God, they will seek Him and find Him, Gods Will be done and the 144,000 are followed by a great multitude that no man can number be not decieved many share there own views and wisdome, seek after Gods by the Holy Spirit In Jesus Name

  • Emery

    What is this :St. Ignatius of Antioch write in his Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2″ fabrication anyway. St. Ignatius? Smyrneans 8:2? I am talking about scriptures, and you interject fabrications of Satan into the conversation.

    • Mark

      You stated the Catholic Church didn’t exist for the 1st 400 years, this shows you are wrong. No one claimed it was scripture. If nothing can be used that was written out side of scripture for all time it will be hard to have much of a conversation, besides if that is the case nothing you write would be of any value either.

  • Mike

    Jesus Christ did establish only one visible Church on St. Peter, Matt 16:16-19, that has authority to end disputes, Matt 18:15-18.
    I hope and pray that one of you will listen to this talk on one Church. God bless you.
    http://youtu.be/OAl7HPkvXbg

    • In the video above, the speaker makes the claim
      that “Jesus Christ did not do everything that was
      needed to be done” …this is a heresy !

      John 1:29
      29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

      1 Peter:1:18-19
      18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
      19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

      1 Cor:15:1-4
      Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
      2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
      3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
      4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

      John 19:30
      30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

      2Cor 5:17
      17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

      Eph 1:13-14
      13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
      14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

      Eph 2:8-9
      8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
      9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

      We are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ who died
      as atonement for our sins !
      The catholic church can’t save you, only Jesus can !
      There are not multiple salvations in the age of grace,
      it’s the blood of Jesus, or it’s nothing !

      P.S.  There are 2 or more mikes posting here, I’m mike
      from down under, the believer in Jesus Christ and the
      KJV of the bible. The word of God !

  • JCs

    Jesus is our Savior, bottom line, and satan has said he will sit high and try take his place, only he can’t, cuz He not God, there is only one God and the Gates of Hell shall Not Prevail ! We know Truth and Truth makes Free, and Whom the Son sets Free is Free Indeed ! All this religiion is not of God, God is Love, and Love is God, and we are saved by Grace and not of our own, nor by works, lest anyone should boast, and they are going to try change Grace as they said in there video and its only gonna get worse, as in the days of Noah, and sodom and gommorah, 10 brides maids 5 was ready, 5 wasn’t, the bride groom came and the 5 that was ready went with Him, but the 5 that wasn’t came back to fnd a door, and knocking on it, saying Lord, Lord, lets us in,,, was to late for them, that ark was a significance for us today, when Jesus calls us up, its gonna be too late, only them in that time when many will know Truth that do get saved, and thats when this evil will kill all Gods People, in the middle of the 7 year trib, the jews too will then see Truth, when anti christ will break the 7 year Peace covenant that was signed with many, which starts the 7 year tribulation, as he now may be getting ready to set up the abomination of desolation ??? Davids tomb and the upper room ??? Do you all know how close we can be, the false prophet will decieve and make way for the anti christ, is obama the false prophet and pope the anti christ ??? This anti christ will rise, as written, and will sit as God, and many will flock to him, as he decieves the massives,whether be the pope as false prophet or the son of perdition its all anti christ ,,, which bible says the spirit of anti christ which is in the world right now, satan is alive and well and has been all down history and is now getting close to his end too and why we all need to know Jesus why He came to expose them so we would know who they was, so we to can expose what they do and are gonna do, but it all up to you to make that choise and decision for yourself that decision that means two worlds apart, hell was not created for us but them, satan and his fallen angels who are now here and will be coming as this army that will try to come against Jesus at the end of the 7 at a place called megiddo, for the battle of armageddon, We wrestle not flesh and blood, satan come but to steal, kill and destroy, but i have come so that you may have Life and have it more abundant ly ! Jesus who died in place for our sins cuz of what satan did and they still doing, we in a war one you cannot see, a spiritual war two forces fighting, one for your God and one for the Devil and one for our Soul ! My you make that decision based on who Jesus is and what He already has done for you already and not on religion that is satans immatation and door way to hell ,,, Jesus came to set the captives free no matter what you have done you can be forgiven, He has died for evan them not born yet, why cuz God so Loved us and wasn’t how Life was supose to be for us, created in His Image for His Glory, Joy ! Why He didnt leave us nor forsaked but gave us Jesus ! God incarnated immanuel,which means God with Us ! He could have destroyed him then but would that had meant destroying us to cuz we become like him a sinner too ??? but that didnt stop God for saven us nor giving us back Eternal Life, no matter what satan and his dominion do God has already won ,,, why you must know Truth ! and share it on with everyone so they won’t be left with them In Jesus Name He made the way of escape for us and said will keep us from that hour that is coming upon the whole world, cuz we kept our Faith He is going to keep us, says we not supose to be here when anti christ is revealed and if he is one confirming this Peace Treaty, when they says Peace Peace, thats when sudden destruction will fall upon them when we see these things happening when disiciples asked Jesus when will be the end and the sign of His returning ,,, He said the time is not for you to know but to know who He is and the sign is and will be His returning ! He has Plan and it will play itself out and its all written cuz God saw what choices people would make and what would happen and is why we can see the bible unfolding right before our eyes and why you need to read it so no one will mislead you, Holy Spirit will teach you all things bible says, if you ask, He will answer and open the door of your heart He will show you all things GB prayers are with

  • Emery

    Well, it’s good you have a strong belief in God, even if you have a lot of misconceptions about the scriptures. Hell is non-existent. We have NO immortal soul, so what would be the point of Hell? God Almighty is not a three headed God who burns people. Hate to burst your bubble. You get those ideas from religion and from the King James Bible. It’s full of falsehoods. It has hell in it 38 times, but the original texts have no such word. The original texts have God’s name, Jehovah, almost 7000 times, but the King James has eliminated them all and replaced it with lord and god. There are many many other discrepancies between the original Biblical texts and the King James version of the Bible. You should use a more accurate translation, rather than an interpretation like the King James.

    • Brenda Murphy

      King James Version is right on.
      You do not know the true God, or you would believe there is a hell. If there is a heaven, then there is a hell to shun. Some of you need to pray and ask God for knowledge….He will gladly give it to you, for He does not want you to be lost.

    • Ruach

      You wrote:

      ‘The original texts have God’s name, Jehovah, almost 7000 times,’

      Wrong!

      The original text states that the Almighty’s Name is spelled YOD HAY VAV HAY (in Hebrew) …YHVH in English.

      It does not translate to Jehovah.

      Nehemiah Gordon…

      a Jew,
      born in Israel,
      raised in Israel,
      educated in Israel,
      a language expert,
      speaks Hebrew,
      understands ancient Hebrew,
      speaks Greek,
      understands ancient Greek,
      speaks English,
      and other languages,
      was chosen to help translate the Dead Sea Scrolls …

      says that Jehovah is not the proper translation of YHVH.

      And the Name YHVH appears 6,700 – 6,800 times.

  • JCs

    ,,, wrote, He made the way of escape for us, and said will keep us from that hour that is coming upon the whole world, cuz we kept our Faith, He is going to keep us,

    Correction,,, He made the way of escape for us alreay, and said will keep us from that hour that is coming upon the whole world, cuz we kept our Faith ( IN HIM) , He is going to keep us,,, Praisen !

  • JCs

    sounds to me the only one here who doesn’t know Truth is you and i not gonna call you names or continue disagreeing but satan angels are here and want no one to know Truth and will say anything evan if it doesn’t evan match up as long as they can disagree and make it seem like we do not know what we saying Gods Will be done, emery ill enjoy my eternity flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdome of God EnJoy yours as well

  • Emery

    James 2:17  So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead.

    Flesh and blood not inheriting heaven is true, but flesh and blood WILL inherit the Kingdom of Heaven in a paradise Earth for the great flock, and the resurrected who obey God during the judgement day (age or period) after Armageddon. The scriptures are written TO THE ANNOINTED 144,000 and not to us. They are to teach the rest of us. That is the misconception that most of Christendom is stumbled by. They think the Bible is written to everyone on Earth. It is not. the faithful and discreet slave, the 144,000, the only humans to go to heaven, are our spiritual brothers and are tasked with teaching humanity the truths and to give the warnings that are contained in the Bible. Those teachings tell us that to believe religions and not the Bible is works of the flesh. To be part of this world and to participate in it’s desires is works of the flesh. To be part of a religion other than the faith that Jesus taught is works of the flesh. Works of the flesh prevent one from inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven (whose domain is PARADISE EARTH). The Bible has two main themes: to sanctify God’s personal name, Jehovah, and to explain the coming government, ruled by Jesus from Heaven, along with the 144,000 adopted sons of God. This makes them co-heirs with Jesus. We don’t go to Heaven, only they do to rule with Jesus. The Bible explains this very very clearly. Except the King James and the Catholic Douhay Rheims Bibles.

  • Brenda Murphy

    Mat 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
    Mat 13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
    Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
    Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
    Mat 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
    Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
    Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
    Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
    Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
    Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
    Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
    Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

    Many false religions claim to be Christ, but they are antichrist. These ‘religions or sects, or cults, are the birds that lodge in the branches of the true faith.
    Christ will separate them, when He comes.

    1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
    1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

  • Emery

    The original text says “the Kingdom of the heavens”, not the Kingdom of Heaven in those scriptures you quoted. If you use a Bible that twists the word of God, you are engaged in works of the flesh, and you know what that means.

  • Emery

    32 It is, in fact, the tiniest of all the seeds, but when it has grown, it is the largest of the vegetable plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of heaven come and find lodging among its branches.”
    33 He told them another illustration: “The Kingdom of the heavens is like leaven that a woman took and mixed with three large measures of flour until the whole mass was fermented.”
    34 All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds by illustrations. Indeed, without an illustration he would not speak to them, 35 in order to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet who said: “I will open my mouth with illustrations; I will proclaim things hidden since the founding.”
    36 Then after dismissing the crowds, he went into the house. His disciples came to him and said: “Explain to us the illustration of the weeds in the field.” 37 In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; 38 the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. 40 Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. 41 The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be. 43 At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen.

  • Emery

    No, the King James Version is not right on. When I compared all of that version with all of the original texts in college, only about 15% of the King James Version matched the original. It is a wholly misleading work. It removed God’s personal name, it uses hell for hades and sheol, it uses cross for stauros (pole, stake) and it supports immortality of the soul and trinity. None of those teachings are in the Aramaic, Hebrew, or Greek texts, nor do they appear in 90% of the Bible translations in English. King James is a good way to become God’s enemy. You are mislead by it. It’s almost as bad as the Catholic Bible.

    I have compared all 38 or so English translation versions of Bibles with the original texts that the Disciples wrote. A lot of them are close to the original. A lot are not. King James and the Catholic versions are the furthest from accurate that exist today. That is one of the ways that Satan is misleading the entire inhabited Earth. Religion is the other largest method he uses. Peer pressure, governments, false prophets and teachers are some others. You have been caught up in his works for so long, you can’t even entertain the truth it seems. You should reconsider. It means your life.

    • Brenda Murphy

      @ Emery–

      What bible are you reading from?

      • Ruach

        @Brenda Murphy

        He’s a Jehovah’s Witness.

        Here’s my response to one of his comments … it will tell you what he doesn’t know :

        That’s funny!!!

        Charles Taze Russel was a 33rd Degree Freemason.

        That REALLY sums up the Jehovah’s Witness’s doctrine if you have REALLY studied religion, history and Freemasonry but…

        I’ll go one step further.

        Open a copy of your (1950 translation)of your New World (Order)Translation bible and read the forward …

        “The original writings of the Christian Greek Scriptures, commonly called the New Testament, were inspired. No translation of these Sacred writings into another language, is inspired… The Greek text that we have used as a basis of our NW translation is the widely accepted Westcott and Hort text (1881) by reason of its admitted excellence. But we have also taken in to consideration other texts including that prepared by D. Eberhard Nestle and that compiled by the Spanish JESUIT scholar Jose Maria Bover and that by the other JESUIT scholar A. Merk…”

        The JW’s that come to my door have no idea of what Freemasonry is and are clueless to who JESUITs are too!

        The JW’s used JESUITS and ROMAN CATHOLIC manuscripts to aid in the translation of the New World Translation… (and you thought that the JW’s actually taught AGAINST Catholicism!… all you’re doing is promoting it!)

        The JW’s used Catholic Church Sources in order to produce its New World Translation.

        Westcott and Hort were two Satanists, founders of the Hermes Club and members of famed Russian witch Madam Blavatsky’s Theosophy cult!

        Dr. Bill Grady:

        “Wescott and Hort, were a pair of unsaved liberals whose open Vatican sympathies cast them as the consummate Jesuit plants.”

        “To regain her corner on the market, Rome created an elite paramilitary Gestapo unit that would make Himmler’s SS appear like a Sunday school….sparking what historians call, the counter-Reformation. The infamous Society of Jesus was founded by Ignatius De Loyola in 1534, more commonly known as the JESUITs….”

        “They are the most militant arm of PAPAL power to this day. Their goals were to reclaim those that had left Catholicism and to attack the reliability of the Textus Receptus. They would use ANY METHOD to regain control including confiscation, treachery, torture and assassination. Jesuits will stop at nothing to bring the whole world under subjection to the Vatican. The Jesuits ploy was to entice Protestants back to Rome. They knew they could not bring anyone back into the bondage of Catholicism as long as true believers clung to the pure text. So the Jesuits plotted to replace our Bible with pro-Catholic readings of Jerome’s Vulgate. This would cause the Protestant scholars to believe our text was unreliable, unreadable and not scholarly. Once programmed, the scholars would attack the pure text, all the while, believing they were doing God’s service.”

        Westcott and Hort took two WASTE Catholic Sources (the Sinaiticus and the Vaticanus) to produce their WASTE version of the Bible, Nestle and the New World Translation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, written by Senior Jesuits Jose Maria Bover and A. Merkz, followed Westcott and Hort.

        (Now you know why JW’s are taught that you can’t be saved if you leave the JW’s … it’s CATHOLIC doctrine!)

        Go here and read the oath that Jesuits take:

        The JESUIT EXTREME OATH of INDUCTION
        http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=jesuit

        That is … IF you want to know the TRUTH!

        Yes … the TRUTH will set you free!

        I love it when JW’s come to my door …

        • Brenda Murphy

          Thank you.

  • Brenda Murphy

    @ Emery–

    LOL—

    Who are you to judge me? You have a judge, also.
    It seems that you are the one that is ‘twisting and shouting’ all over this blog, trying to lead , but wearing blinders.
    I pray for God to open your eyes to the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Amen.

  • Emery

    Judging you? It is your lack of humility that makes you think I am judging you. I am not. I am stating what the scriptures say, and you don’t like it. Most people cannot handle the truth of the Bible. You do appear to be one.

    • Brenda Murphy

      You are still judging me—you are saying I can’t handle the truth, who’s? Yours?
      No, I cannot handle your truth, but I can handle God’s. Thank you for confirming that.

  • Emery

    Most of the English translations.

  • Emery

    The tetragrammaton is JHVH translated into English. It appears 6996 times. You are wrong sir. Being a natural born Jew taints your outlook. Ignoring the New Testament, the Greek portion of the Bible and it’s meanings, is a huge mistake. Physical Israel is no longer the chosen nation. That ended when Jesus died. Spiritual Israel now is the chosen people. But Jews refuse to believe God on this point. Believing some of what God said, and not all of it is a form of suicide. All of your non-humble rantings about it won’t change the facts. Each and every word is true, or NONE of it is true. And believe me, it’s all true.

    • The tetragrammaton is JHVH translated into English. It appears 6996 times. You are wrong sir. Being a natural born Jew taints your outlook. Ignoring the New Testament, the Greek portion of the Bible and it’s meanings, is a huge mistake. Physical Israel is no longer the chosen nation. That ended when Jesus died. Spiritual Israel now is the chosen people. But Jews refuse to believe God on this point. Believing some of what God said, and not all of it is a form of suicide. All of your non-humble rantings about it won’t change the facts. Each and every word is true, or NONE of it is true. And believe me, it’s all true.

      “Physical Israel is no longer the chosen nation. That ended when Jesus died.”

      This is Heresy ! What bible do you have ? When was 
      it printed ?

      Jeremiah 31:35-37
      35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
      36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
      37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

      In Genesis 12:2-3 God says to Abraham, “And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.”

      Zechariah 2:8
      8 For thus saith the Lord of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

      Romans 11:1-2
      11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
      2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

      Romans 11:11
      11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

      Romans 11:26
      26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

      Matthew 24:15-21
      15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
      16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
      17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
      18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
      19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
      20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
      21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

      Nothing spiritual here ! These are Jews living in Judea, 
      being told to flee the Antichrist, the abomination of 
      desolation, praying that their flight would not be on 
      the sabbath, their about to be slaughtered ! Yes,
      real Jews ! In judaea, not spiritual. It can’t be the
      church, their already raptured. John 4:1
      Their going to flea to the red rock city of Se’-la
      Petra in present day Jordan Isaiah 16:1-5

      Isaiah 63:1
      63 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.

      Jesus will save physical Israe!, the jews, as promised !

      Mike from down under, have a listen to the NTEB 
      Series on Timothy, you will need a real bible for
      that though, a KJV.

  • Emery

    Claiming that nothing from the scriptures is of value is rediculous. And when are you stating that Catholicism began? Even though it is a sect of Christianity, and not the original that Jesus taught, or he would have mentioned it while on Earth. He did not. He mentioned the Christian Faith. Not a sect of it. He said sects are WORKS OF THE FLESH. Works of the flesh make one God’s enemy.

    • Brenda Murphy

      Who are you talking to? Not me, here. You need to reply under their name, so we can keep up. There is a reply button here. Find it, please.

    • Mark

      You state that “He mentioned the Christian Faith” yet Acts 11:26 says: “And they conversed there in the church a whole year; and they taught a great multitude, so that at Antioch the disciples were first named Christians.”, so no, Jesus did not mention the Christian faith as the term Christian came after Pentecost.

  • Emery

    I said the “truth of the Bible”, not “my truth”. You are being dishonest and acting afraid to acknowledge that you may not be getting the sense of a lot of the scriptures. You are not being honest. What do the scriptures say about honesty? It should be easy for you to look it up.

    • Brenda Murphy

      I’m not being honest? You got to be kidding me? And why are you still judging me?

  • Emery

    Jehovah God told us ALL to be His witnesses, didn’t he? yes, he did. Anyway, that’s beside the point. You are making statements without ANY DIRECT FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE of what you’re talking about. You are getting your opinion (and I use that term loosely, because an opinion is based on fact) from other people, and not from your own experience and research. That’s dishonest.

    • Mark

      “making statements without ANY DIRECT FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE” that is the Classic Pot calling the kettle black. Much of knowledge comes “from other people, and not from your own experience and research.” it is not dishonest as that is what research is, looking at what others have discovered. That is fine so long as we do not plagiarize and claim it as ones own. We do not need to re-invent every wheel over and over.

      • Brenda Murphy

        lol, that’s good

  • Emery

    If you only knew how typical that “you are judging me” tactic was, you would be embarrassed. Anyone that doesn’t agree with your false sense of the scriptures is apparently judging you. That’s also a widely used tactic of liberals and Democrats. Change the subject and attack. There is not one shred of “judging” you in my comments. Stating facts is not judging. It is only stating facts. Get a grip. Calm down. Take a breath. Go to sleep.

    • Brenda Murphy

      Zzzzzzzzzzszzzzz……lol

  • Emery

    Russell was something of a nut, what with pyramids and such. However, the annointed 144,000 remnant provide us all with scriptural food and information and update their understanding of the scriptures daily. Since the late 1800’s through today there have been a LOT of changes in understanding.

    What you claim about hell is not in the scriptures, unless you are referring to the two worst translations on Earth: King James Version and the Catholic Douhay-Rheims Bibles. They are so far from accurate, not more than 15% of them match the original texts from which the translations were derived. Of the 38 or so English translations of the scriptures, none are quite as bad as those two. I started comparing them all in 1976. As the versions are updated, they only get worse, not more accurate. Without accuracy, how can you please God by using them? Scripture says also that faith without works is dead. Once saved always saved is a huge lie. These false teachings come from Satan’s work to mislead the entire inhabited Earth. Seems like he’s been pretty successful so far. But, however, he cannot prevail. Nor will anyone whom he has mislead.

    • MRH

      Pyramids and such are Masonic, and JW’s use Masonic symbolism in their false religious institution. Such as the Egyptian sun disk, and other occult imagery. JW’s also falsely claim that Jesus spiritually returned in 1914, when scripture clearly states that he will return in the same bodily fashion he ascended with. Finally you condemn other bibles than your false JW bible. And I’ve seen the JW bible, and it is convoluted to the max!

      P.S. Jesus himself said; “Believe in me and you shall have eternal life”. He did not attach a bunch of other silly religious rules to his statement, like most churches do including the false JW church!

      • Brenda Murphy

        Mark Hodge,
        The whole New Testament is our rule book, or why did God give us His “Holy Bible”?
        Are we to go out and be like the world, after we profess to be born again? What does “born again” mean to you?

        • MRH

          “The whole New Testament is our rule book”

          @Brenda Murphy: Nope, only the church epistles 🙂

          P.S. The Gospels are actually the transition into the grace covenant. Although bibles place the Gospels as NT, technically the NT begins with Acts 😉

        • MRH

          “What does “born again” mean to you?”

          @Brenda Murphy: Biblically it means born of God 🙂

          P.S. The natural man has not the Spirit, only true believers 😉

          • Brenda Murphy

            So, what does born of God mean to you?

          • MRH

            “So, what does born of God mean to you?”

            @Brenda Murphy: It means that God dwells within our very soul or being. However that doesn’t mean we are free from sin yet! Nor does it mean that we have ultimate holy knowledge yet. But it does mean we are eternally saved, that is if we are not faith pretenders. And God alone knows whom his children are or are not.

            P.S. I hope that answered your logical question? And I didn’t even need to use scripture to explain my viewpoint 😉

      • Brenda Murphy

        Quote, Mark-” He did not attach a bunch of other silly religious rules to his statement, like most churches do including the false JW church!”-Unquote.

        Mark, here are just a few of Jesus’ rules:

        Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
        Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
        Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
        Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
        Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
        Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
        Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
        Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
        Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
        Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
        Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
        Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
        Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
        Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
        Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
        Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
        Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
        Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
        Mat 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
        Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
        Mat 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
        Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne:
        Mat 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
        Mat 5:36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
        Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
        Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
        Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
        Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
        Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
        Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
        Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
        Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
        Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
        Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
        Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
        Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

        • MRH

          @Brenda Murphy: Jesus was addressing the Jews (under law), Paul addresses the Church (under grace) 🙂

          P.S. You can’t mix oil and water can you? Well neither can you mix Law and Grace 😉

          Gal 5:1-6 KJV – Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

          • Brenda Murphy

            Christ was addressing all of us. The Bible was written down for all that Christ would call to Him.
            The Jews that converted were part of the church, also, Mark…….Jesus was addressing the church…all of the Christians, after all—-He was in Jewry, always, preaching. Do you not think that Paul was Christ’s also?
            He spread the gospel of Christ. It’s all the same message…to all of us.
            You are the one that is dissecting the Word of God. Don’t tell me that I am living under the law, I was never under the law. I am not a Jew. I am saved by God’s grace. Open your eyes and see the light…Paul had to be blinded before he could see the truth……..how ironic, huh?

          • MRH

            “Jesus was addressing the church”

            @Brenda Murphy: How? The Jew church wasn’t even born until Acts! Jesus himself states fact in his proclaim before ascension. Anyway, the Jews were under law, as was Jesus. However he broke the law, proving it flawed. And it wasn’t until Paul, that Gentiles were invited into the church.

  • Emery

    Actual quotable textbooks are one thing, but taking other’s opinions as your own is not honest. Where does it say anywhere that “calling the kettle black” statement of yours is correct? You are not using direct first hand knowledge. You are obviously not one of God’s witnesses as He commanded all Christians to be. Therefore, you are taking the word of apostates as truth. It’s not. Jesus said apostates are not truthful. So who is correct? You, or Jesus, our King and Savior?

    • Brenda Murphy

      It’s a sect, when that sect says that they are the only ones going to heaven…….. that is their judging, in my book.
      I do not believe in ‘once saved, always saved.’
      We have to bear fruits, or the tree will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
      But those 144k are the Jewish Remnant, that God seals, after the tribulation period.

      • MRH

        “I do not believe in ‘once saved, always saved.’”

        @Brenda: Well it certainly seems that Paul the apostle did 🙂

        Rom 8:1, 9-11, 14-17, 23, 28-30, 38-39 KJV – There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. … But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. … For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. … And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. … And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. … For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

        1Jo 4:1-4, 12-16 KJV – Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. … No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

        1Jo 5:1-5, 10-13, 18-20 KJV – Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? … He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. … We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

        • Brenda Murphy

          Mark Hodge,

          I do love those KJV verses, thank you for putting them on!

          We are saved, if we endure till the end, the end of our lives.

          We are not promised tomorrow, so we better walk as close a walk with Christ as we can, today…..

          Paul also said that not all that run the race will win!

          1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
          1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
          1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
          1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
          1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
          1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

          Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

          • MRH

            “I do love those KJV verses, thank you for putting them on!

            We are saved, if we endure till the end, the end of our lives.

            We are not promised tomorrow, so we better walk as close a walk with Christ as we can, today…..”

            @Brenda: Actually these KJV verses spiritually match with other bible versions (I’ve tested), some an easier English read than the KJV 😉

            P.S. The key to salvation is honesty with God. A true believer honors God in their hearts. Not for worldly status and prestige. Anyway, I do believe that both you and Ron, and probably many self claimed Christians here are true believers as myself. And we are all flawed both in varied ways, plus our holy knowledge is limited.

            Tip: All of the Gospels and before are under the law, and Jesus lived under law. Therefore as Christians we need to focus our hearts unto Paul’s messages to the Church. For within the epistles lies our salvation and other related answers 😉

          • Brenda Murphy

            Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

          • MRH

            “Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”

            @Brenda: Meaning that we are no longer judged for our salvation by the law. Not that we aren’t judged by our earthly works for future heavenly rewards 😉

            Rom 14:10 KJV – But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

            1Co 3:11-15 KJV – For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

            2Co 5:10 KJV – For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

            2Jo 1:7-9 KJV – For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

          • Brenda Murphy

            Mark,
            I know what scripture means, you do not have to expound to me on everything.

          • MRH

            “Mark,
            I know what scripture means, you do not have to expound to me on everything.”

            @Brenda: Likewise with you to me, I’m not bible ignorant ;-
            )

    • Mark

      According to 1 Timothy 3:15 (“But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.”) it is the Church that is the foundation of truth, and might I say the Church that existed at the time of the statement.

      Deuteronomy 18:21-22 “21
      Should you say to yourselves, “How can we recognize that a word is one the LORD has not spoken?”,
      22
      if a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD but the word does not come true, it is a word the LORD did not speak. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; do not fear him.”

      So “prophets” that speak things that don’t come true are not speaking on the behalf of God.

      “Jehovah is the Grand identifier of his true messengers. He identifies them by making the messages he delivers through them come true. Jehovah is also the Great Exposer of false messengers.” Watchtower 1997 May 1 p.8

      Yet Russell and Rutherford etc. missed all their “prophetic” calls, so what makes you think the watch tower interpretation of anything is the truth?

      • Brenda Murphy

        Watchtower is man’s doctrine, not Christ’s.
        So many are being deceived now….it will all come to a head in the great tribulation.

        Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

        • Emery

          The Watchtower announcing God’s Kingdom is not doctrine at all. It amazes me how so many people can make claims about things in which they have no direct first hand knowledge.

          • Brenda Murphy

            My first hand knowledge does come from God’s Word, Emery.

            He is the one that gives us the knowledge to discern truth from lies.
            Jesus said the truth will make you free, free from man’s false doctrines….free from sin….go and sin no more….I can do all things thru Christ who strengthens me!

            The Holy Spirit gives us the knowledge, if we seek it…seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you…….the Word of God will be opened unto you.

            Seek it and you will find the truth. Jesus said that he was the way and the truth and the life. No man gives us life, only Christ. No man’s doctrine gives us life. Only Christ’s.

          • Ruach

            “The Watchtower announcing God’s Kingdom is not doctrine at all.”

            Really?

            Doctrine –

            – a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a church, political party, or other group.

            The Watchtower announcing God’s Kingdom IS doctrine!…

            Doctrine that high-level CATHOLICS called JESUITS help
            write! … that you spew.

            That’s already been PROVEN on here … and it’s the JW’s
            own writing in the 1950-translation forward that proves it.

            Of course, one can probably take solace knowing that the newer JW’s translations have conveniently omitted that part… the part about the SENIOR Jesuits, Bover and Merck, helping write JW’s doctrine.

            But, … You really can’t un-ring that bell, can ya?

            ” It amazes me how so many people can make claims about things in which they have no direct first hand knowledge.”

            Yea,…I know how you feel!

            Me, personally, am amazed every time a JW’s opens their mouth.

  • Emery

    Yep. Amen to that. Faith without works is dead. A lot of Christendom teaches the opposite. That through faith alone, you can inherit the Kingdom of the heavens. A lot also teach that once saved, always saved. Both are incorrect.

    • Brenda Murphy

      I do agree with you on that. We must have works.

      Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

  • Emery

    It seems even more sad that millions upon millions could have the same thing happen in their lives, and they choose not to.

  • Emery

    All are commanded to be witnesses for God. All are commanded to warn others about the coming Kingdom. How many actually do either? You shouldn’t denegrate God’s witnesses unless you understand anything about them. Also, it is a completely un-Christian thing to do. Would Jesus put down his Father’s witnesses like that? I think not.

    • Brenda Murphy

      We are witnesses for Christ, if we are living it, as an example.

      Some are called to do other things for the Kingdom of God.
      I am not degrading you, just your doctrine.

      It’s one thing to be a witness, but to know what you are a witness to, is another. You’d better get it right, or you are in big trouble.

      False witnessing of any kind, is wrong.

  • Emery

    My comment wasn’t in reference to you, but to the idiots all over the world that lie, cheat, steal, murder, and so on. I am sure you’re not one of them.

    • Brenda Murphy

      Oh, but you really need to hit the reply button, when you are commenting to a specific person.
      Okay, I see.
      Yes, those that claim to be Christ’s….then they do all kinds of bad things, like extortion, and lying, and so on. No, that’s not good witnessing at all.

  • Emery

    Then how do you explain James 2:26 Faith without works is dead?

    James 2:26

    Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    James 2:26

    Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)The Catholic Bible

    26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.

  • Emery

    James 2:26

    Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

    26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.

    James 2:26

    Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    New World Translation
    James 2:26 26 Indeed, just as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

  • Emery

    It is NOT doctrine. Every Biblical article in the Watchtower announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom is straight from the Bible. Are you saying that the Bible is doctrine also? No Jesuits helped write any of God’s Witnesses doctrine. There IS no doctrine. The Witnesses for God are the same group of people who Jesus taught when he brought the only true faith to the planet. No difference. The Witnesses live by completely, and preach nothing but scriptures, and they warn the planet about God’s judgement, and teach the truth of the scriptures. There are NO beliefs of their own. They all come from the scriptures. They also constantly study the original scrolls and every existing Bible in all languages to continue to make sure that the NWT is as accurate as humanly possible. Can’t say that about any other translation. Take the King James. It’s more interpretation than translation. It was translated from German into English initially. Going from Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek to German, then to English is a pretty round about way to translate a work of God. The NWT was initially translated in the 1950’s directly from the original scrolls in Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek. It is constantly refined for correctness.

    Your information regarding Witnesses is flawed.

    • The Jehovah’s Witness cult is about as unbiblical as you can get, please read this excellent article: http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/pages/cults/jehovahs-witness.htm

      • Dan (required)

        Good article

      • Brenda Murphy

        TY

      • Emery Richards

        NTEB News Desk;
        JW’s first of all are not a cult. if they were, then that would mean that Jesus was sent to Earth to START A CULT. is that your claim? And absolutelY NOTHING to do with them is “unbiblical”. Everything they do, the way they are organized and operate, and everything they believe and teach comes STRAIGHT FROM GOD’S WORD, THE BIBLE. I don’t have any need to read apostate articles about the society either. Neither do you. If you want to know something about an organization, GO TO THAT ORGANIZATION and talk to them. You’ve NEVER done that, ever. You’ve only talked to apostates. They aren’t God’s witnesses. As Jesus taught to first century christians, apostates are not to be associated with, unless they return to God. Having not gotten ANY of your information from the organization itself, you are in NO position to make the false claims you have made. Do some REAL research, with the organization itself, and THEN make your comments. That is the honest way to do it.

        • The JW’s have done nothing but lie and issue false prophecies since the day Charles Russell created the movement.

        • Mark

          “If you want to know something about an organization, GO TO THAT ORGANIZATION and talk to them”
          So to learn if the Mob is doing anything illegal that should be prosecuted, just go ask them!
          Drug cartel illegal? Murderous thugs? Just ask them!
          Are the JWs Dishonest? Do they apply “theocratic war strategy” to hide the truth by obfusion? Go ask them!

          That will clear it all according to Emery’s Logic!

  • Emery

    Now why would I read an article written by more people who speak without first hand knowledge? NOTHING taught by Witnesses is unbiblical. Absolutely nothing. They are not a religion. They are the faith that Jesus taught. All religions of Christendom are not that faith. They use portions of that faith to build their own religions, but they are not the original. The Witnesses ARE the original faith as taught by Jesus. If you want first hand information about them, go to one of their meetings. Go to their web site: JW.org

  • Emery

    This is NOT a Christian site. It is a Christendom site. False Christianity. Babylon the Great. Works of the flesh. False teachers. False prophets and so on. Being denegrading does not give you credibility.

  • Emery

    The Witnesses are not a cult. If that were so, then you are actually saying that Jesus set up a cult. The Witnesses are the continuing Christian Congregation that was set up by God’s only begotten son, Jesus. Saying that he set up a cult is probably not making God very happy with you. The name Jehovah’s Witnesses is the legal entity under which they operate. They are not a man made religion, as all religions of christendom are. They are the original faith taught by Jesus, and the only faith approved by God, as the scriptures say, and as Jesus taught over and over and over, until he was murdered by people like you.

    • Dan (required)

      You are a cult! You’ve always been a cult! You’ve only had significance in your own circles. After all these many years still your groups insignificance is deafening.. The reason is G-d has not blessed you in any way. Stop knocking on my door!

  • Emery

    Cult (religious practice)
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    This article discusses the original meaning of the word “cult” but not “cults” in the sociology of religion, new religious movements referred to as “cults”, political cults or head-of-state cults of personality, or popular cult followings. See also: Cult (disambiguation).

    Outward religious practice in worship is expressed through religious rituals. Cult in this sense is literally the “care” (Latin cultus) owed to the God or gods and the temples, shrines, or churches. In the specific context of Greek hero cult, Carla Antonaccio has written, “The term cult identifies a pattern of ritual behavior in connection with specific objects, within a framework of spatial and temporal coordinates. Rituals would include (but not necessarily be limited to) prayer, sacrifice, votive offerings, competitions, processions and construction of monuments. Some degree of recurrence in place and repetition over time of ritual action is necessary for a cult to be enacted, to be practiced”[1] Cult is embodied in ritual and ceremony. Its present or former presence is made concrete in temples, shrines and churches, and cult images (denigrated by Christians as “idols”) and votive deposits at votive sites.

    So, are you intending to say that obeying the scriptures, God, and Jesus is a cult? Who formed the cult, Jesus? God? What are the deviant beliefs? What are the rituals? No deviant beliefs outside the Bible are followed by the Christian Witnesses of Jehovah God. Absolutely no rituals exist within the Christian congregation either. The Christian Witnesses of Jehovah are the continuing congregation of Christians that Jesus taught to his disciples up to his death in 33 C.E. I don’t think that Jesus taught a cult to the disciples, or that they were adherents to or practicers of a cult or any deviant beliefs. Unless believing in God, His son Jesus, and what they command us to do or not to do can be considered a cult. Within the congregation exist NO heads, leaders, clergy, rituals or anything else that is not scriptural. So explain your viewpoint. Is it from first hand personal experience? How long were you a JW? Why did you leave the faith? Are you better off in the eyes of God for doing so?

  • Emery

    G_d? Are you afraid to type Jehovah’s title, God? The Bible is full of admonitions that we are to use His personal name in prayer. That name in the tetragrammaton form JHVH appears in the Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek original texts 6996 times. The KJV and the Douay-Rheims (Catholic) Bibles omit it. It only appears 4 times in them. That is a very misleading thing.

    Cult (religious practice)
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    This article discusses the original meaning of the word “cult” but not “cults” in the sociology of religion, new religious movements referred to as “cults”, political cults or head-of-state cults of personality, or popular cult followings. See also: Cult (disambiguation).

    Outward religious practice in worship is expressed through religious rituals. Cult in this sense is literally the “care” (Latin cultus) owed to the God or gods and the temples, shrines, or churches. In the specific context of Greek hero cult, Carla Antonaccio has written, “The term cult identifies a pattern of ritual behavior in connection with specific objects, within a framework of spatial and temporal coordinates. Rituals would include (but not necessarily be limited to) prayer, sacrifice, votive offerings, competitions, processions and construction of monuments. Some degree of recurrence in place and repetition over time of ritual action is necessary for a cult to be enacted, to be practiced”[1] Cult is embodied in ritual and ceremony. Its present or former presence is made concrete in temples, shrines and churches, and cult images (denigrated by Christians as “idols”) and votive deposits at votive sites.

    So are you saying that Jesus started a cult? That he taught his disciples a cult? The Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses is the continuing congregation that Jesus began in the three ministries that he and his disciples accomplished. I don’t think he or God his father would appreciate you saying that they set up a cult.

    • Mark

      You state “The term cult identifies a pattern of ritual behavior in connection with specific objects, within a framework of spatial and temporal coordinates. Rituals would include (but not necessarily be limited to) prayer, sacrifice, votive offerings, competitions, processions and construction of monuments. Some degree of recurrence in place and repetition over time of ritual action is necessary for a cult to be enacted”

      So what you describe sounds a lot like what God established in the old testament for temple worship. God established elaborate rituals, vestments, objects etc. Are you saying that God didn’t establish patterns of ritual behavior in connection with specific objects, within a framework of spatial and temporal coordinates etc.? it shows “Some degree of recurrence in place and repetition over time of ritual action is necessary for a cult to be enacted”

      Since God did these things in the past what makes you think they are all unbiblical especially since these are documented in the bible? I don’t mean this to be insulting but a witness is someone who has seen something, and you seem to have missed many of the details. Heck look at the last supper, there were specific actions and Jesus ended with “Do this in memory of me”. Rituals are not all bad. Your (I assume) attendance at the Kingdom Hall on Saturdays certainly has an aspect that is “within a framework of spatial and temporal coordinates”. Even JW’s exhibit “Some degree of recurrence in place and repetition over time of ritual action is necessary for a cult to be enacted, to be practiced”

      Not all religious imagery is idolatry. An Idol is an object worshiped as the embodiment of a deity etc. A cross in a Christian home is no Idol.

    • Dan (required)

      No Emery I only use G-d as a personal preference. No need to explain why . As for CULT using WIKI for an explanation to it’s meaning is (laughable and not a good source)even for something so simple as CULT. Emery you can compare your CULT to Christianity as much as you want. My point still stands JW have no significant role in anything save the circles you follow. Which unfortunately goes by my door sometime. To bad we can’t sprinkle blood around the door to make you guys pass us by

  • JCs

    We Wrestle not flesh and blood; 2 Peter 2:4
    For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

    James 2:19
    Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

    Matthew 7:6
    Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

    God is coming back and devils want to take as many with them to hell ! Everyone seek God for yourself

    For God so Loved the World

    and would rather none should perish

    seek Him now while He may be found anti christ is getting ready to rise and you are his sacrifice !

    Jesus came to set the Captives free and expose them and there dirty deeds

    John 10:10
    The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

  • Emery

    I didn’t say those things, I cut and pasted a Wikipedia article on cults. Anyway, yes, the Mosaic law had a lot of rutualistic things about it, but remember, it was done away with when Jesus was killed. The whole shebang, including the ten commandments. We are now under free will. We can choose to follow God, or not to follow God. Back then, if you didn’t follow God, you were stoned to death under the law. With the institution of the Christian Congregation by Jesus, and his propitiatory sacrifice of his blood, we are given the opportunity to ask for forgiveness and to repent, and we are ok. Under Mosaic law, you had to sacrifice animals, crops, and various other things. It’s a good thing we don’t have to do those things anymore. A lot of natural born Jews who are orthodox still cling to those Mosaic laws, and totally ignore the Christian Greek scriptures. Strange, and sad that they do that. How can you say that I believe God, but only this far. The rest I reject? Crazy stuff. So claiming cult status is absurd, and I am sure, abhorrent to God. To me, it’s laughable. If you look at most of Christendom, let’s say Catholicism for example, it is the most rutualistic religion around. And all the rituals are pagan. They use idols out the wazoo. That’s pretty darn pagan also. They pray to saints (and they made up saints), they pray to Jesus’ Earthly mother, Mary, they use idols like Saint Christopher medals and the cross (pagan symbol for male genitals). They DO fit the description of a cult. But the original Christian congregation, now called Jehovah’s Witnesses, certainly do not.

    • Mark

      If you cut and pasted it, you said it. In the future it would be best if you also referenced it, else its plagiarism and intellectual theft isn’t a Godly concept. ” it was done away with when Jesus was killed. The whole shebang, including the ten commandments. We are now under free will.” We were always under free will. That is how Adam sinned, through his free will. If we didn’t have free will we wouldn’t be responsible for our actions. God held many responsible even in old testament times.

      The sacrifices of old built on one another to the ultimate sacrifice of the cross and God himself.

      God has established rituals as I mentioned earlier, who are you to say what God did was wrong? To say all the rituals are pagan just shows you again don’t understand what you are talking about. You spew error (Catholic Church didn’t exist for 1st 400 years etc.).

      Idols are worshiped as the embodiment of a deity, not a Catholic practice. Art and items used to focus and meditate on concepts etc are not idols. That interpretation has more to do with your uninformed opinion than any reality. The cross is a pagan symbol for male genitals? You are either a piece of work, have very strangely shaped genitals, or some weird imagination, and please I don’t need to know which one it is. I am teasing, I know this is what you are taught, and believe, and I do give you credit for trying to do what you think is right. But when the facts keep not checking out please look at the source, as scripture says “the pillar and bulwark of truth is the Church”, note the often predicted end didn’t come etc.

      • Ruach

        “Idols are worshiped as the embodiment of a deity, not a Catholic practice.”

        …not a Catholic practice.” ..????

        Idol:
        – a greatly loved or admired person. : a picture or OBJECT that is worshipped as a god.- Merriam-Webster

        The Second Commandment states (the commandment that the Babylonian/catholic church took COMPLETELY out of their Bible):

        “Thou shalt not make unto thee ANY graven image, or ANY likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: THOU SHALT NOT BOW THYSELF DOWN TO THEM, nor serve them: for I The Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me, and keep My Commandments” (Exodus 20:4-6 KJV)

        Scroll to the top of this page and look at today’s Babylonian high priest holding a graven image of the Babylonian goddess Semirimis … notice the crown!

        And what about that red “cross” on his collar? …
        It’s the ancient Babylonian symbol for the sun … as in SUN-god!

        That very same symbol is still found, carved in stone, in remains of ancient sun-god worshipping temples.

        Google (in images): “pope (or) catholics bow to mary.”

        RCC is LOADED with Babylonian/occult imagery and idols.

        Yea, … this REALLY looks like something that Peter the Apostle started.

        No struggle here.

        If you think that you, or any other catholic, can convince me otherwise then, … YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME !!!

        • Mark

          I wrote “Idols are worshiped as the embodiment of a deity, not a Catholic practice.”, you wrote “…not a Catholic practice.” ..????

          Idol:
          – a greatly loved or admired person. : a picture or OBJECT that is worshiped as a god.- Merriam-Webster”

          Since we do not consider any statue, image etc. such as a statue of Mary or any St. to be a God, I am right. If they aren’t considered a God it is not an Idol by definition. The pesky facts sure do water down your arguments. But let us continue…

          You next go off on graven images
          ““Thou shalt not make unto thee ANY graven image, or ANY likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: THOU SHALT NOT BOW THYSELF DOWN TO THEM, nor serve them: for I The Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me, and keep My Commandments” (Exodus 20:4-6 KJV)”

          Do you realize the Arc of the Covenant had 2 angels on it? How can it be God said no graven images and then commanded a graven image be made? That is easy, he didn’t, you have no clue what a graven image is vs an image.

          I may not be able to convince you otherwise, and you are free to wallow in your ignorance, but I can point out you do not know what you are talking about to help keep others from being led astray.

          • Ruach

            You wrote:

            “Since “WE” do not consider any statue, image etc. such as a statue of Mary or any St. to be a God, I am right.”

            “WE” …

            I say to you …

            Congratulations! … you have now elevated yourself to the position above the Almighty!

            Throw out the Second Commandment!

            Create graven images!
            (look up the def.)

            Bow down to them!

            Typical Babylonian doctrine.

            This is not a catholic site, and you’re not winning any converts here.

            But you are showing others how far from the Truth your Babylonian beliefs are.

            By all means, … Keep it up.

            I expect that you’ll start name-calling soon.

          • Mark

            “look up the def.”

            OK here it is:

            grav·en im·age
            noun
            a carved idol or representation of a god used as an object of worship.

            So we are back to an Idol (why didn’t you look this up – your the one who can’t tell the difference), so you are using a circular argument at best. Intent has everything to do with if its an idol or not. Since Catholic statues etc. are not considered the representation of a God they are not Idols, by definition.

            I may not be winning any converts here, but I am stating the truth, and I will keep that up.

            Additional info on Graven image:

            The Hebrew word translated “graven image” means literally “an idol.” A graven image is an image carved out of stone, wood, or metal. It could be a statue of a person or animal, or a relief carving in a wall or pole. It is differentiated from a molten image, which is melted metal poured into a cast. Abstract Asherah poles, carved wooden Ba’als covered in gold leaf, and etchings of gods accompanying Egyptian hieroglyphics are all graven images.

            See: http://www.gotquestions.org/graven-image.html

          • Ruach

            Mark wrote:

            “…When God wrote this Commandment, the Israelites at that very moment were worshipping an Egyptian god, the golden calf (Exodus 32:4). They were worshipping it as a god…”

            This is true.
            The Hebrews were neck deep in idolatry at MANY different times in their history. But that doesn’t make it ok for us to do it AT ANY TIME.

            You:

            “…The Ten Commandments were carried around in the Ark of the Covenant, which had 2 statues of angels on top of it (Exodus 25:22).

            Did YHVH tell anyone to “bow down” to these angelic images?

            You:

            “Solomon had statues of cherubim in his magnificent temple (Ezekiel 41:19).”

            Did YHVH tell anyone to “bow down” to these angelic images?

            You:

            Moses had a serpent statue made in the desert, so that all who looked upon it (not worshipped it), would be healed of snake bites (Numbers 21:8).

            Did YHVH tell anyone to “bow down” to this image?

            Statues and art are one thing…

            But bowing down to them is another!

            Are the catholics in these pics NOT bowing, even crawling, at the feet of statues?

            http://ivarfjeld.com/2013/10/08/they-crawl-bow-and-kiss-wood-and-stone/

            It MUST BE OK with the church … is it not?

            A quick google search shows pope John Paul II on his knees before a “Mary” statue.

            The RCC took the Second Commandment completely out of the Bible, … and that’s because …

            “The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed…the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority.”
            -Canon and Tradition, p. 263

            “They “dispense with the command of Christ???” When the Catholic church is asked…”Why do you feel you have the power, authority and ability to CHANGE SCRIPTURE to match your TRADITIONS ?” They answer…

            “Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; –she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.”
            -Rev. Stephan Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism, “On the Obedience Due to the Church,” chap. 2, p. 174. (Imprimatur, John Cardinal McCloskey, archbishop of New York.)

            “The authority of the church could therefore NOT be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed…the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority.”
            – Canon and Tradition, p. 263

            The “authority” of the RCC is not rooted in Scripture, …but in Babylon.

            Keep in mind that YHVH established HIS year on lunar cycles …full moon to full moon was a month.

            He did not name them, …He numbered them (ex. – 14th day of the second month).

            Today’s Gregorian calendar (named after pope Gregory)
            is based on SOLAR cycles in honor of the SUN god.

            The name of each month has it’s roots in paganism…

            Each weekday does also in honor of the many pagan gods…

            Monday – originally MOON day.

            Tuesday – Tieu’s day

            Wednesday – Wodan’s day

            Thursday – Thor’s day

            Friday – Dagon – depicted as fish/man – why fish is sometimes served on Friday in some institutions – pope’s mitre is a copy of the Dagon priests hat.

            Saturday – Saturn’s day

            And on Babylons most holy day of the week…

            Sunday – The SUN god …Satan/Nimrod

            Sunday is Satan’s counterfeit holy day to YHVH’s TRUE SABBATH.

            That’s why the RCC changed it.

            Now, read this one again:

            “The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed…the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority.”
            -Canon and Tradition, p. 263

            ‘…not by command of CHRIST, but by its OWN authority.”

            There are TWO authorities mentioned here.

            Christ’s is the RIGHTEOUS ONE !

            The other is Satan’s, the WICKED one!

            I’ve made my point on idol worship.

            You believe what you want.

          • Mark

            Mixing facts and interpretation is not a coherent argument. As an example you state:

            “Sunday is Satan’s counterfeit holy day to YHVH’s TRUE SABBATH.

            That’s why the RCC changed it.”

            They didn’t change it for the sake of a sun god but because it was on Sunday that Christ rose from the dead. Every day is an anniversary of something. And even if they choose it to help with the conversion of pagans to the actual faith, then so be it (and it was a combination of the two as I recall).

            Friday Nov. 14 will be national pickle day, if other events fall on that day, even if they are planned to counter it, it doesn’t mean there is a pro-pickle conspiracy.

            As for your comments on idolatry, you are following the same beliefs of the Iconoclasts I wrote about yesterday who were declared heretics in the 8th century. Veneration is not the same as worship. There is still no belief that the object is in fact a deity.

            You can keep your heretical beliefs and I will keep mine in conformance with the ancient unchanging teachings stretching to the foundation of the faith in 33AD.

          • Ruach

            @ Mark

            Note : I use caps a lot, … it’s only for emphasis, … not shouting. I should have made this clear to everyone waaay earlier.

            In response to my post that the RCC changed YHVH’s Holy Sabbath (Saturday) to Babylons holy SUNday and that they did it “…not by command of Christ, but by it’s OWN authority”.

            You replied:

            “They didn’t change it for the sake of a sun god but because it was on Sunday that Christ rose from the dead.”

            The Bible doesn’t say the Savior rose from the dead on a Sunday!

            And He certainly could not have been crucified on Good Friday as is the RCC teaching.

            Keep in mind that a Hebrew day (24hr.) started at sundown (6:00 pm) and ended the following day at sundown… Lev. 23:22

            Also, when a Hebrew died it was their custom/law to bury the deceased before sundown … this is why the thieves legs were broken … to hasten their death for burial.

            The Pharisees wanted a sign that the Savior was who He claimed to be … the Messiah.

            And His reply was:

            Matt. 12 39-40

            “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth”

            This is the ONLY sign that He gave and it’s very important to understand it’s implication.

            We all know that He was saying that He would be “buried” for three days and nights in the tomb… that’s 72 hrs.

            If the Savior was crucified on a Friday and put in the tomb by sundown, then there is absolutely NO WAY that you can squeeze 3 “Hebrew” days (72 hrs.) between a Friday crucifixion and a Sunday morning resurrection!

            – Sundown Friday – to – sundown Saturday … is 24 hrs.

            – Sundown Saturday – to – Sunday morning … is 12 hrs. at most.

            That’s only 36 hrs. … not 72 !

            It’s IMPOSSIBLE!

            NOT EVEN CLOSE!

            With this “sign” the Savior placed His ENTIRE IDENTITY on the line!

            If He didn’t fulfill this sign then we could consider Him a false prophet.

            The sign was NOT His resurrection, … the sign was the AMOUNT OF TIME that He would be buried.

            Re-read the verse, … no mention of the resurrection as being the sign.

            There are “critics” that try to justify the “Good Friday – Easter Sunday” time-line with Greek “periods of time” reasoning …

            – Friday NIGHT being “one period of time.”

            – Saturday (DAY) being a “second period of time.”

            – Saturday NIGHT being a “third period of time”.

            But … the Greek periods of time doesn’t withstand stand the Hebrew test.

            Jonah 1:17 :

            “And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.”

            The Old Testament was written in Hebrew.

            And it’s here that the critics face a real problem when they study the phrase “three days and three nights.”

            These “scholars/critics” have to acknowledge that the Hebrew language MUST mean a 72-hour period of time!

            There is no room for any “periods of time” theories in the Hebrew.

            The Savior said that He would be in the heart of the earth “AS” Jonah was in the belly of the fish.

            “AS” links the Savior’s “3 days and 3 nights” DIRECTLY TO Jonah’s “3 days and 3 nights.”

            Jonah 2:1-2

            “Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish’s belly,

            And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of HELL cried I, and thou heardest my voice.”

            The Hebrew word translated “hell” is sheol.

            It literally means “the grave.”

            In John 11 9-10 the Savior asked…

            “Are there not twelve hours in a day?…But if a man walk in the night, he stumbles.”

            The Bible mentions in several places that the Savior rose “THE THIRD DAY.”

            How long was this?

            Gen. 1 4-13

            The Almighty … “divided the light from darkness. And God called the light Day and the darkness He called Night. And the evening (darkness]) and the morning (light) were the first day…And the evening (darkness) and the morning (light) were the second day…And the evening (now three periods of darkness called night—three nights) and the morning (now three periods of light called day—three days) were “THE THIRD DAY.”

            This is the Almighty’s definition of “the third day” … and it’s a 72 hr. period!

            John 2 19-21

            “Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in THREE DAYS I will raise it up…But He spoke of the temple of His body.”

            There are more verses but I’ll move on.

            The Almighty established WEEKLY Sabbaths (Saturday) and certain other holy days (feast days, etc.) that were known as HIGH Sabbaths.

            High Sabbaths could fall on ANY day of the week.

            John 19:31

            “The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.”

            The Sabbath in John 19:31 is not the regular Saturday Sabbath.

            It was the Passover Sabbath, which occurred on Thursday of the crucifixion week.

            Note that John 19:31 says, “For that Sabbath day was an high day.”

            If it were talking of the Saturday Sabbath, then the Savior would have been crucified and then buried on late Friday … and His resurrection would have been on a late Monday afternoon.

            All the feast days that the Almighty gave to Israel were considered Sabbaths though they did not fall on Saturday.

            The Savior was crucified on the “preparation” day (Wednesday) of the Sabbath (Passover HIGH Sabbath) which was Thursday.

            Modern computer programs verify that the Passover of that year fell on a Thursday!

            And … at what time of the day did Jesus die?

            It was around three in the afternoon on Wednesday.

            Luke 23:44-46

            “And it was about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: And having said thus, he gave up the ghost .”

            When it says the ninth hour, it means the ninth hour since the break of day.

            That means that it was three o’clock in the afternoon.

            The Savior was taken down from the cross and quickly buried that same afternoon before sundown (6:00 p.m)

            If you count 72 hrs. from late Wednesday afternoon … at around 6:00 p.m. … then the Savior would have been in the tomb until late SATURDAY evening … at about 6:00 p.m.

            So … a Sunday morning resurrection is NOT what the Bible teaches.

            The Savior was resurrected on SATURDAY evening … at about 6:00 p.m.

            Jesus was placed in the tomb at around 6:00 p.m. on Wednesday … 72 hrs. later would be at around 6:00 p.m. on SATURDAY … exactly when the first day (Sunday) began .

            Even at this hour the Jewish Sunday night begins at Saturday night at 6:00 p.m.

            When the women arrived at the tomb early Sunday morning … the Savior WAS ALREADY GONE !!!

            Those who arrived early Sunday morning simply discovered … AN EMPTY TOMB !!!

            The angel said, “He is not here, for He is risen.”

            So … the DISCOVERY occurred in the morning … NOT THE RESURRECTION !!!.

            Critics object to a Wednesday crucifixion based on Luke 24:21:

            “But we trusted that it had been He which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, today is the third day since these things were done.”

            This conversation takes place on Sunday, the day of resurrection.

            The answer is found in the word “since.”

            Counting from this verse, Sunday is the third day, Saturday the second day, Friday is the first day SINCE the Passover.

            The Thursday Passover had its night on what we would call Wednesday night and twilight of that night … meaning between 3:00 p.m. and 6:00 p.m. …is when the Savior was crucified.

            The twilight of Thursday afternoon would have counted as the twilight of Friday night … which began at 6:00 p.m. by Jewish reckoning.

            So … we can see that there is no conflict.

            .

            Why would the Savior be crucified on Friday and resurrected on a SUN-day ?

            To honor the Sun-god ?

            To prove the TRUE MESSIAH a false prophet?

            Passover occurs every year on a specific HEBREW date.

            By progression, … it might be on Monday one year and then Tuesday the next year.

            But the RCC changed it to Easter … the counterfeit to Passover!

            That’s why Easter (the worship and honor of Semiramis and the fake savior Tammuz) is ALWAYS celebrated on a SUN-day! … with no progression over the years.

            THEY even have a SUN-rise service to honor the “rising SUN/Nimrod/Tammuz”.

            We were warned by the Savior Himself:

            Mark 7:7-8

            “In vain do THEY worship Me teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the TRADITION OF MEN ”.

            I’ve already proven … by catholic words … that the RCC has it’s “OWN authority” and it is NOT the authority of Christ!

            The True Savior rose on a HOLY DAY … the (weekly) Sabbath.

            In the beginning He created it!

            At Mount Sinai He commanded it!

            In His life He worshipped on it!

            Even in His death … He observed it!

            Because …

            He is the … “LORD OF THE SABBATH” !

            Not the “lord of SUN -day” ! … that’s someone else!

            I Corinthians 15:3-4

            “…Christ died for our sins … ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES …

            and that He was buried, and that He rose again …

            THE THIRD DAY … ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES.”

          • Mark

            Thanks for all the work you put into that Ruach.
            I learned a lot from this one.

            I was mistaken, as are you, that the Catholic Church moved/changed the Sabbath, on further research it was simply replaced by the early church.

            The single best explanation is at: http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/did-the-early-church-move-the-sabbath-from-saturday-to-sunday
            and I am pasting it below the line farther down. They quote Col. 2:16 and it addresses this very question of passing judgement in matters with regard to the Sabbath

            Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or Sabbath (Col. 2:16)

            because the early church started observing Sundays rather than the Sabbath.
            _______________________________________________________

            This is a common misunderstanding. Catholics do not worship on the Sabbath, which according to Jewish law is the last day of the week (Saturday), when God rested from all the work he had done in creation (Gen. 2:2-3). Catholics worship on the Lord’s Day, the first day of the week (Sunday, the eighth day); the day when God said “Let there be light” (Gen. 1:3); the day when Christ rose from the dead; the day when the Holy Spirit came upon the Apostles (Day of Pentecost). The Catechism of the Catholic Church says: “The Church celebrates the day of Christ’s Resurrection on the ‘eighth day,’ Sunday, which is rightly called the Lord’s Day” (CCC 2191).

            The early Church did not move the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Instead “The Sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday, which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ” (CCC 2190). Sunday is the day Catholics are bound to keep, not Saturday.

            We see evidence of this in Scripture:

            On the first day of the week when we gathered to break bread, Paul spoke to them because he was going to leave on the next day, and he kept on speaking until midnight (Acts 20:7).
            On the first day of the week each of you should set aside and save whatever one can afford, so that collections will not be going on when I come (1 Cor. 16:2).
            Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or Sabbath (Col. 2:16).
            The Catechism also says:

            By a tradition handed down from the apostles which took its origin from the very day of Christ’s Resurrection, the Church celebrates the Paschal mystery every seventh day, which day is appropriately called the Lord’s Day or Sunday. The day of Christ’s Resurrection is both the first day of the week, the memorial of the first day of creation, and the “eighth day,” on which Christ after his “rest” on the great Sabbath inaugurates the “day that the Lord has made,” the “day that knows no evening.” (CCC 1166)

            Other CCC references to the Lord’s Day: 349, 2174, 2175, 2191

          • Ruach

            @ Mark

            My post was to demonstrate that the Savior DID NOT resurrect on Sunday morning … THAT’S ALL !

            I hurriedly type when I get a few minutes and often make mistakes…

            (Another reason why I don’t like to blog)

            If I came across as judging you, or anyone, about the Sabbath … then … I TRULY apologize!

            That was NOT my intention!

            I believe that the RCC purposely claims a “Friday crucifixion / Sunday resurrection” for it’s own reason.

            Certainly the JEWISH disciples and those present at the crucifixion would not condone a “Friday/Sunday” timeline.

          • Brenda Murphy

            That’s what I thought, also. There are so many truths there, but we have to open both our eyes and our ears to
            god, not just one. Many say they see, but do they?
            Thanks, Ruach.

          • Brenda Murphy

            typo=god-God

          • Mark

            “If I came across as judging you, or anyone, about the Sabbath … then … I TRULY apologize!”

            Don’t worry, I take it as give and take and assume everyone who is not obnoxious etc. is trying to be of help to others. People who are trying to follow what they think God wants, in good faith I have no problem with. Its not as if we all can’t learn from each other, or gain new perspectives etc.

            “My post was to demonstrate that the Savior DID NOT resurrect on Sunday morning … THAT’S ALL !”

            That’s fine, I just thought the article was interesting and certainly added a perspective on the change to Sunday and on Col. 2:16 that without our conversation I hadn’t contemplated.

          • Ruach

            @ Mark

            After our last posts I became a little “uneasy” in my spirit … and it had to do with “Sabbath” in regards to Col. 2:16-17.

            ( No offense to you , by the way! )

            And it’s probably because I’ve gotten a little (more like a lot!) rusty on some of my studies.

            Especially the feast days that are referred to in this verse by Paul.

            So I sought further insight on it and found this article below.

            It cleared the uneasiness for me … I could better understand what Paul was saying to the newly converted GENTILES who were not familiar with JEWISH Sabbath’s/Festivals, etc.

            Though it’s clear in itself ..it really helps to understand the article better when we have a deeper knowledge of YHVH’s APPOINTED TIMES.

            These are HIS APPOINTMENTS !

            And the Almighty KEEPS His appointments.

            I’ll touch on it briefly…

            The three Holy Days of YHVH are : Passover…Pentecost …Day of Atonement.

            Associated with these Holy days are seven feasts…and .. “‘These are the feasts OF the Lord,” (Lev. 23) …not of man and not of Israel.

            EACH feast is prophetic in nature … And in Col. 2:17 Paul states exactly that …”a shadow of things to come”.

            The first Passover meal was “a shadow of things to come” … The Savior dying on the cross fulfilled that prophetic feast.

            The first four feasts have already been fulfilled … in SPECTACULAR fashion too, I might add!

            Passover … Feast of Unleavened Bread … Feast of Firstfruits … Feast of Pentecost.

            Three remain to be fulfilled and certainly will be at a future date.

            The remaining three are:

            Feast of Trumpets … Day of Atonement …Feast of Tabernacles.

            Fulfilled feasts > > > WE ARE HERE < < < < Unfulfilled feasts.

            "These feasts are key waypoints on a roadmap in holy history. They tell the story of the main Covenant events between God and His Elect people as they occur here on the earth and down through time.

            It is a long and epic saga, with a beginning and a conclusion. The story begins back with the people God called out to Himself in Old Testament times. And it EXTENDS RIGHT THROUGH to the Apocalyptic events John saw in vision and wrote about in the Book of Revelation."

            I personally believe that these APPOINTED TIMES are just as relevant for us today as the first Passover was for the Hebrews in Egypt.

            P.S.

            Mark …

            Per your last post:

            Don't be so kind to me in the future …. it has a tendency to "soften" me!

            I offer this …. with respect.

            ——————————————————–

            The apostle Paul wrote to the Colossian Christians, a gentile congregation: "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come …" (Colossians:2:16-17

            , King James Version).

            This passage, probably more than any other in the Bible, is interpreted by those who reject God's festivals as confirmation that the biblical feast days are unnecessary observances. Regrettably, such reasoning is based on poor scholarship and misleading translations from the original wording of Paul's instructions.

            From the context we see that Paul, in this passage, is countering a local heresy. In doing so he actually confirms and explains the value of God's days to Christians. He explains that they foreshadow "things to come."

            In other words, the focus of God's festivals is on the future, relating God's plan directly to the commission Christ gave His Church. So let's examine what Paul actually says about Sabbaths, new moons and "holydays" in this verse.

            First we need to understand that Paul was confronting a heresy. False teachers had infiltrated the congregation in Colosse. These deceivers had influenced the Colossian Christians by introducing their own religious philosophy. This prompted Paul to warn the Colossians, "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit according to the tradition of men" (Colossians:2:8). Humanly devised tradition—not the revealed instructions of God's Word in the Bible—was the problem Paul was countering. Earlier Jesus had taken the Pharisees to task over the same kind of problem. They also had elevated their traditions to greater importance than God's commandments (Mark:7:8-9, 13).

            Paul tried to keep the Colossians focused on Christ as the head of the Church (Colossians:1:18; 2:10, 19). But these false teachers were trying to persuade them to direct their worship toward angels (Colossians:2:18) and neglect their own bodies (verse 23). No such distorted ideas are taught anywhere in the Scriptures.

            Paul characterized the Colossian heresy as "empty deceit" and "the basic principles of the world" (verse 8). The deceivers were persuading the Colossians to ignore plain biblical instruction in favor of "traditions of men."

            What type of deceitful regulations did Paul combat? "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle … according to the commandments and doctrines of men" (verses 21-22). The heretics advocated man-made regulations concerning physical things that "perish with the using" (verse 22).

            Why is this important? The deceivers were probably forerunners of a major religious movement, gnosticism, that flourished in the second century. They did not represent the mainstream Jewish thinking of that day, nor were they faithful to the Scriptures.

            They believed salvation could be obtained through constant contemplation of what is "spiritual"—to, as Paul explained, the "neglect" of the physical body (verse 23). It appears they believed in various orders of angels and in direct human interaction with angels.

            Paul indicates they regarded all physical things, including the human body, as decadent. He explicitly states that the heresies he was countering "concern things which perish with the using [physical things] according to the commandments and doctrines of men" (verse 22). Paul tells us he was countering human commandments and doctrines—not the commandments of God.

            The Colossian heretics had introduced various man-made prohibitions—such as "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle" (verse 21)—against the enjoyment of physical things. They especially objected to the pleasurable aspects of God's festivals—the eating and drinking aspects—that are commanded in the Scriptures (Deuteronomy:12:17-18).

            When Paul wrote, "… Let no one judge you in food . . ." (verse 16), he wasn't discussing what types of foods they should or should not eat. The Greek word brosis, translated "food," refers not to the kinds of foods one should or should not eat, but to "the act of eating" (Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, 1985, "Food"). The point is that the deceivers disdained feasting—any type of eating and drinking for enjoyment.

            Paul instructed the Colossian Christians not to be influenced by these false teachers' objections to eating, drinking and rejoicing on Sabbaths, feast days and new moons.

            Perhaps we should, at this point, mention the relationship between new moons and God's festivals. The dates for observing God's festivals are determined by a lunar calendar. Therefore new moons—which mark the beginning of the months—are important for establishing correct festival dates. Unlike God's Holy Days, however, new moons are not commanded observances in the Scriptures. In the Millennium the custom of making the arrival of each new moon a special occasion will again be restored (Isaiah:66:23), but no biblical command exists now that requires their observance.

            Now back to Paul's main point: The Colossian deceivers had no authority to judge or determine how the Colossians were to observe God's festivals. That is why Paul said, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days …" (verses 16-17, King James Version).

            Notice that Paul tells them to reject false human judgment, not the judgment of God found in the Scriptures.

            At this point we should note another grammatical matter. The words "respect of" are translated from the Greek noun meros, which denotes a part of something. Therefore a more accurate rendering of what Paul wrote would be "Let no man therefore judge you … in any part of a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days …"

            Paul is simply being consistent. Eating or drinking is an appropriate part of Sabbath and feast-day observance according to the Scriptures. Therefore Paul uses meros ("part") to cover all parts or aspects of God's Holy Days that these heretics might condemn or criticize. Nothing in this passage even suggests that God abolished His Sabbaths or Holy Days, nor authorized Paul to do so. Succumbing to the judgmental influence of those early gnostic heretics is what Paul condemns, not the observance of Sabbaths and feast days.

            God's festivals are times for joy and celebration. He commands us to attend them and rejoice with our children—our entire family (Deuteronomy:12:5, 7; 14:26). He wants us to delight in them. No wonder Paul condemns the misguided ascetic philosophy of the Colossian heretics with such vigor. Paul was defending the Christians' right to enjoy feasting at God's holy festivals.

          • Mark

            Ruach,
            I agree much of what was notable in the old testament is repeated and perfected in the new. From the sacrifice of Abraham, the pascal lamb in Egypt to Christ on the cross is the classic example. I agree that the old feasts, while not all observed in the Christian faith are still important and as you showed are a metric of the times we are in. I have seen similar things to this in the past.

            Today in Church the first reading was ACTS 18:9-18, and it struck me that the accusations made against Paul in this reading: “This man is inducing people to worship God contrary to the law.” may well be in regards to what we are discussing. It certainly wasn’t 8 of the commandments that they dragged him in for, as they don’t apply to the worship of God. Keeping the Sabbath seems to make the most sense. When I get a chance I’d like to run that down a little more, not sure when that chance will be however.

            ACTS 18:9-18
            “One night while Paul was in Corinth, the Lord said to him in a vision,
            “Do not be afraid.
            Go on speaking, and do not be silent, for I am with you.
            No one will attack and harm you,
            for I have many people in this city.”
            He settled there for a year and a half
            and taught the word of God among them.

            But when Gallio was proconsul of Achaia,
            the Jews rose up together against Paul
            and brought him to the tribunal, saying,
            “This man is inducing people to worship God contrary to the law.”
            When Paul was about to reply, Gallio spoke to the Jews,
            “If it were a matter of some crime or malicious fraud,
            I should with reason hear the complaint of you Jews;
            but since it is a question of arguments over doctrine and titles
            and your own law, see to it yourselves.
            I do not wish to be a judge of such matters.”
            And he drove them away from the tribunal.
            They all seized Sosthenes, the synagogue official,
            and beat him in full view of the tribunal.
            But none of this was of concern to Gallio.

            Paul remained for quite some time,
            and after saying farewell to the brothers he sailed for Syria,
            together with Priscilla and Aquila.
            At Cenchreae he had shaved his head because he had taken a vow. ”

            Any way thanks for the post, interesting as usual.

      • Brenda Murphy

        Mark—
        The Catholics make graven images—idols, statues are graven images, graven is carved or shaped.

        Now, you know that God said that He would have no other gods before Him.
        It is a cursed thing……and the people that bow down or worship with them—-they are cursed, also.
        God is a jealous God.
        If you don’t believe there is anything wrong with that, then you are deceiving yourself.

        • Mark

          If you read the definition a Graven image is a carved Idol and an Idol is an object thought to be a God. If it isn’t thought to be a God it isn’t an Idol and isn’t a graven image. Words have real and specific meanings. Catholics distinguish between The one true God and creatures he made. Catholics know they are not God and do not equate them to God.

          Not all statues are graven images. I do think worshiping an inanimate object such as a statue as the embodiment of a deity is wrong, as does the Catholic Church. We hold no other Gods before the Trinity.

          • Brenda Murphy

            Why have statues in the first place, Mark?

            Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
            Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
            Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
            Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

          • Mark

            There are several reasons that I can think of off hand, some are great works of art, but mainly they were and to instruct. For the vast majority of Christianity very few could not read and the scriptures were not widely available even to those who could until the printing press became widely used. Statues, stained glass etc. told and illustrated the scriptural messages. A great example is the Pieta, I can’t imagine anyone believing that carving is the embodiment of a deity (idolizing it), but that does not mean it isn’t worth viewing the work and contemplating the crucified Jesus, and/or appreciating the talent of Michelangelo etc.

          • Brenda Murphy

            So…..now it’s all just harmless art?
            Okay, you can have your idols, I do not want any part of it.

            There is a difference in art and having statues in a place of worship. Don’t you think?

            I don’t think people worship art, or do they?
            Something to think about.
            God gave people the gift to be artistic, don’t get me wrong—- not to make images to put in place of Him. That is the difference!

          • Mark

            “So…..now it’s all just harmless art?
            Okay, you can have your idols, I do not want any part of it.”

            If you can’t figure out what the definition of an idol actually means, then so be it. It is fairly straight forward.

            “There is a difference in art and having statues in a place of worship. Don’t you think?”

            No I don’t. The Catholic Church and Orthodox Churches and their members sponsored most of the great medieval art.

            “I don’t think people worship art, or do they?”

            Already said no, as to Catholic beliefs.

            “Something to think about.”

            Not really since it doesn’t apply, no matter how much you want it to.

            ” not to make images to put in place of Him. That is the difference!”

            Well then you keep avoiding religious art, so you don’t have to worry about developing an issue with worshiping it.

          • Ruach

            @ Mark

            Brenda murphy wrote:

            “But why have statues in the first place Mark?”

            Good question in light of…

            1 Thessalonians 5:22

            “Abstain from all APPEARANCE of evil.”

            They crawl, bow and kiss wood and stone

            These images from Church of Portobelo in Panama expose the bondage of idolatry.

            http://ivarfjeld.com/2013/10/08/they-crawl-bow-and-kiss-wood-and-stone/

          • Ruach

            The Catholic church declares unto all that are of her church to embrace and gather as many statues, medals, relics, and artifacts to themselves as a sign of holiness unto the Lord God.

            The Catholic church teaches it’s followers to bow down before statues when in prayer. Anyone can walk into a Catholic church and see kneelers before every statue placed within.

            The Catholic church proclaims loudly that Jesus is dead and unable to help you. Walk into any Catholic church and you will see a DEAD Jesus on a cross, a DEAD Jesus in the arms of His mother, or an INFANT Jesus in the arms of His mother. However, look at the MEN and WOMEN depicted in statues. Look at Mary, Joseph, Peter, Anthony, and hundreds of other saints. They are all displayed as alive and well and very capable of helping you and hearing your prayers.

            The Catholic church declares that you must bow before and display acts of worship unto a MAN called Pope. The very words of these Popes are such that they proclaim themselves “God on earth” for all Catholic to adore…

            “The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, he is Jesus Christ himself” -Catholic National July 1895.

            “We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty” -Pope Leo XIII

            The title “Lord God the Pope” is found within a gloss of Extravagantes of Pope John XXII, title 14, chapter 4

          • Mark

            “Abstain from all APPEARANCE of evil.”

            Pro-life is considered evil by some, I will remain pro-life

            Sticking with biblical beliefs like the sanctity of marriage is considered evil by those who want same sex or plurality etc. I will remain in my beliefs.

            We should abstain from the appearance of true evil, but we are to be in the world and not of it too.

            Just to show you another Catholic perspective here is a blurb from http://www.catholicbible101.com/whennoncatholicssay.htm

            “It certainly would be idolatry if any Catholic thought that the plaster and paint before him in the form of a person was actually a god. When God wrote this Commandment, the Israelites at that very moment were worshipping an Egyptian god, the golden calf (Exodus 32:4). They were worshipping it as a god. It is not forbidden to have statues. The Ten Commandments were carried around in the Ark of the Covenant, which had 2 statues of angels on top of it (Exodus 25:22). Solomon had statues of cherubim in his magnificent temple (Ezekiel 41:19). Moses had a serpent statue made in the desert, so that all who looked upon it (not worshipped it), would be healed of snake bites (Numbers 21:8). When people stand up, place their hands over their hearts, and pledge allegiance to a red, white, and blue colored piece of fabric, that is only honoring what it represents, it is not worship. The exact same thing goes for statues. The devil uses evil imagery on TV, in the movies, on web pages, in magazines, and on billboards to ensnare humans every day; conversely, the Catholic Church uses sacred imagery and art to inspire people to holiness. When you look at a picture of your dead child or parents and start crying, you are not “worshipping” the picture; it is only a reminder of what the person looked like.”

            As for the reference to the flag above, certainly Emery and the other Jws would find that idolatry, and let it be known on this Memorial Day I will and will continue to pay great respect to the Red, White and Blue, even if some find it the APPEARANCE of evil.

          • Brenda Murphy

            You made some good points, Mark, but went into worldly things…..we KNOW that we are not to dabble in those.
            Yes, the world in all it’s glory, is just sin. We are in the world, but not of it.

            Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
            Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
            Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
            Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
            Joh 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
            Joh 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
            Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
            Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

          • Mark

            “The Catholic church proclaims loudly that Jesus is dead and unable to help you.”

            No, we proclaim through his death and Resurrection he has. We understand and respect sacrifice.

            Making up absurd statements is in no way a dialog. No Catholic teaching, document, etc ever said or indicated Jesus is dead and unable to help.

            Like St. Paul we proclaim Christ crucified

            1 CORINTHIANS 1:23-25
            23
            but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
            24
            but to those who are called, Jews and Greeks alike, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
            25
            For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

            So you find this as Paul states “a stumbling block” and “foolishness”? Well “the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom”.

            As stated in Matthew 10:38 “and whoever does not take up his cross* and follow after me is not worthy of me.”

            Maybe you should reflect Isaiah 53: 3-12
            3
            He was spurned and avoided by men,
            a man of suffering, knowing pain,
            Like one from whom you turn your face,
            spurned, and we held him in no esteem.c
            4
            Yet it was our pain that he bore,
            our sufferings he endured.
            We thought of him as stricken,
            struck down by God* and afflicted,d
            5
            But he was pierced for our sins,
            crushed for our iniquity.
            He bore the punishment that makes us whole,
            by his wounds we were healed.e
            6
            We had all gone astray like sheep,
            all following our own way;
            But the LORD laid upon him*
            the guilt of us all.f
            7
            Though harshly treated, he submitted
            and did not open his mouth;
            Like a lamb led to slaughter
            or a sheep silent before shearers,
            he did not open his mouth.g
            8
            Seized and condemned, he was taken away.
            Who would have thought any more of his destiny?
            For he was cut off from the land of the living,
            struck for the sins of his people.
            9
            He was given a grave among the wicked,
            a burial place with evildoers,
            Though he had done no wrong,
            nor was deceit found in his mouth.h
            10
            But it was the LORD’s will to crush him with pain.
            By making his life as a reparation offering,*
            he shall see his offspring, shall lengthen his days,
            and the LORD’s will shall be accomplished through him.
            11
            Because of his anguish he shall see the light;
            because of his knowledge he shall be content;
            My servant, the just one, shall justify the many,
            their iniquity he shall bear.
            12
            Therefore I will give him his portion among the many,
            and he shall divide the spoils with the mighty,
            Because he surrendered himself to death,
            was counted among the transgressors,
            Bore the sins of many,
            and interceded for the transgressors.i

            Also look at Rev 5:2-12
            2
            Then I saw a mighty angel who proclaimed in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?”
            3
            But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to examine it.
            4
            I shed many tears because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to examine it.
            5
            One of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. The lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David,* has triumphed, enabling him to open the scroll with its seven seals.”
            6
            Then I saw standing in the midst of the throne and the four living creatures and the elders, a Lamb* that seemed to have been slain. He had seven horns and seven eyes; these are the [seven] spirits of God sent out into the whole world.
            7
            He came and received the scroll from the right hand of the one who sat on the throne.
            8
            When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.
            9
            They sang a new hymn:
            “Worthy are you to receive the scroll
            and to break open its seals,
            for you were slain and with your blood you purchased for God
            those from every tribe and tongue, people and nation.
            10
            You made them a kingdom and priests for our God,
            and they will reign on earth.”
            11
            I looked again and heard the voices of many angels who surrounded the throne and the living creatures and the elders. They were countless* in number,
            12
            and they cried out in a loud voice:
            “Worthy is the Lamb that was slain
            to receive power and riches, wisdom and strength,
            honor and glory and blessing.”

            Yes we do keep the cross and Jesus suffering front and center. We proclaim ““Worthy is the Lamb that was slain” as does heaven itself, and you downplay and ignore it at your own peril.

          • Ruach

            @ Mark

            TRUTH:

            John 1:14

            And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

            LIE:

            “The Scriptures indeed is a divine book but it is a DEAD letter, which has to be explained, and cannot exercise the action which the preacher can obtain.” -Our Priesthood, p. 155

            “…A DEAD and SPEECHLESS book.” -Question Box, p. 67

            “The simple fact is that the Bible, like all DEAD letters, calls for a living interpreter.” -The Faith of Millions, p. 155

            “The Bible was not intended to be a textbook of Christian religion.” -Catholic Facts, p.

            TRUTH:

            HE IS RISEN !

            Therefore …

            THE WORD IS ALIVE!

          • Brenda Murphy

            Mark,
            Idols are an abomination to God.
            Do you think how you are hurting God, when you look at a statue with admiration….I do not care if it is a statue of Christ…….it’s not the real deal.
            We must worship in spirit and in truth. That moves God.
            We must worship with our whole heart. We must put no other gods before him.
            You are right, these worldy things are disgusting to God, also.
            But idol worship—you worship the Pope–that is just not right. He is just a man, nothing more, but maybe less, since he claims to be the stand in for Christ–now
            that is an abomination.

          • Mark

            Ruach, I agree that “THE WORD IS ALIVE!”, yet many read scripture and get it wrong. Look at the protestant churches, there is no agreement on a plethora of issues. So they divide, and divide etc. No consistency, no authority, no sign of being the Pillar and Bulwark of truth. While scripture is inerrant (given proper source and valid translation etc.) it is not infallible. If it was everyone here would agree that baptism must be done by: (fill in your answer: immersion, dipping, water, just intention etc…) then post it as an absolute truth and see if everyone who claims to read scripture agrees.

            I am not familiar with, and there isn’t enough of a reference to see the sources you quote. I don’t know if they are authoritative, are the thoughts of individuals or just need a greater context to be understood. But here are a few thoughts.

            While the actual content of scripture is fixed, its understanding will never end).

            The quote: “The Bible was not intended to be a textbook of Christian religion.” is certainly true in part. It is meant to edify and instruct, but as a text book it isn’t set up as such. It is a collection of writings that had many purposes. Jesus, to my recollection, never said to go and write the gospels, He commanded the apostles and others to go and preach. Some of the teachings have been compiled. Scripture says the Pillar and Bulwark of truth is the Church, scripture does not claim that for itself.

          • Mark

            Brenda,

            “Idols are an abomination to God.”

            Yes actual idols are.

            “Do you think how you are hurting God, when you look at a statue with admiration….”

            Admiration is not worship. I admire the scientific genius of Einstein, I don’t worship him. I admire great art too, but I don’t think it is a god. Rephrasing a mistaken concept doesn’t validate the concept. An idol still has a specific definition, that does not apply.

            “I do not care if it is a statue of Christ…….it’s not the real deal.”

            And no one is saying it is, but it is a representation a distinction you don’t seem to grasp.

            “We must worship in spirit and in truth. That moves God.
            We must worship with our whole heart. We must put no other gods before him.”

            Agreed

            “You are right, these worldy things are disgusting to God, also.

            “But idol worship—”you worship the Pope””

            Since when, quote me in any place I have indicated that. Respect is not the same as worship either.

            “–that is just not right. He is just a man, nothing more, but maybe less, since he claims to be the stand in for Christ–now
            that is an abomination.”

            Your misunderstanding is still just that in fact your arguments and fascination with Idolatry is fast approaching the heretical stance of the iconoclasts that was addressed by the seventh ecumenical council of the Church held in Nicea in 787 A.D

            The following is from http://www.catholicbible101.com/apologetics.htm

            “The practice of keeping in Churches the images of saints dates back to the earliest days of Christianity. The practice was so widespread that it only became an issue in the eighth century, when a group known as iconoclasts rose to declare veneration of images idolatrous. The seventh ecumenical council (council of all bishops) of the Church held in Nicea in 787 A.D. was organized to refute the opponents of icons:

            To summarize, we declare that we defend free from any innovations all the written and unwritten ecclesiastical traditions that have been entrusted to us. One of these is the production of representational art; this is quite in harmony with the history of the spread of the gospel, as it provides confirmation that the becoming man of the Word of God was real and not just imaginary, and as it brings us a similar benefit. For, things that mutually illustrate one another undoubtedly possess one another’s message.

            Given this state of affairs and stepping out as though on the royal highway, following as we are the God-spoken teaching of our holy fathers and the tradition of the catholic church–for we recognize that this tradition comes from the holy Spirit who dwells in her– we decree with full precision and care that, like the figure of the honoured and life-giving cross, the revered and holy images, whether painted or made of mosaic or of other suitable material, are to be exposed in the holy churches of God, on sacred instruments and vestments, on walls and panels, in houses and by public ways; these are the images of our Lord, God and saviour, Jesus Christ, and of our Lady without blemish, the holy God-bearer, and of the revered angels and of any of the saintly holy men. The more frequently they are seen in representational art, the more are those who see them are drawn to remember and long for those who serve as models, and to pay these images the tribute of salutation and respectful veneration. Certainly this is not the full adoration in accordance with our faith, which is properly paid only to the divine nature, but it resembles that given to the figure of the honored and life-giving cross, and also to the holy books of the gospels and to other sacred cult objects. Further, people are drawn to honor these images with the offering of incense and lights, as was piously established by ancient custom. Indeed the honor paid to an image traverses it, reaching the model; and he who venerates the image, venerates the person represented in that image. (pp. 135-7)

            The council condemned the opponents of images, specifically

            “…anyone [who] does not confess that Christ our God can be represented in his humanity…”
            “…anyone [who] does not accept representation in art of evangelical scenes…”
            “…anyone [who] does not salute such representations as standing for the Lord and his saints…”
            “…anyone [who] rejects any written or unwritten tradition of the church…””

          • Brenda Murphy

            and to other sacred cult objects.————

            Mark, what you wrote, look at that!

            CULT OBJECTS!

            Some things are hidden in plain view!
            WOW!

            WAKE UP!

          • Mark

            The use of images etc. is consistent with the uses the council approved.

            As to Cult lets look at its definition:

            cult noun, often attributive \ˈkəlt\
            : a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous

            : a situation in which people admire and care about something or someone very much or too much

            : a small group of very devoted supporters or fans

            Your use is based on the 1st definition, which of course the Catholic Church does not fit. It is hardly a small group. Christians collectively are the largest religious group in the world, having 2,319,839,000 followers (numbers from http://www.wholesomewords.org/missions/greatc.html). Of those more than 1/2 are Roman Catholic (1,200,850,000), all the protestant churches combined are about 430,625,000, but are very divided/fragmented, nearly as many are independents 356,733,000 etc. Far more people would see the fragmented and usually localized beliefs of the protestant churches as an issue.

            Certainly the only Christian church that has truly followed the gospel and gone out to the whole world in any real sense to spread the gospel is the Catholic Church.

            Cult can be used in a neutral way as well, and has been:

            : a small group of very devoted supporters or fans

            So yes a cult as a small independent off the wall religious group such as the Jws is a problematic group.

            A small devoted group within a larger organization can also be referred to as a cult, but that is not necessarily a negative use of the term.

            I think you are trying to define a cult as something like:
            “A cult is group that teaches doctrines and beliefs that misrepresent the biblical truth of God’s Word”

            and then set yourself up as the arbitrator of right and wrong. As scripture says the Pillar and Bulwark of truth is the church. God gave us (the world) an authority centuries before the cannon of scripture was set, and it is from that Church authority that we can say scripture is inerrant. That authority is clearly not independent churches, the vastly fragmented protestant churches etc. Very few of them existed then. I submit to you that you should find the authoritative church that Jesus established, stating “and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it”. It started in 33AD and exists to this day, or else scripture is not inerrant and then would not be worthy of belief. Jesus said it would exist to the end of time and we are not quite at the end yet, so find that Church and their positions will be the promised pillar and bulwark of truth. You will also find that their teachings confound the world as for told.

            As you noticed on the thread comparing Faith and Works, many of the stated ideas are a contradiction to what scripture actually says. When you find the authority left to us by Jesus you will find the entire truth.

          • Brenda Murphy

            Mark,

            I just don’t understand why you can’t see that Christ said that:

            Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
            Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
            Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
            Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
            Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
            Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
            Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
            Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
            Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
            Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
            Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

          • Mark

            Brenda, I do see that.
            And I do believe that by their fruits you shall know them
            The protestant churches are churches of division, that is their fruit.

            Lets continue with Mat 7 and see the verses you left off 24-29:

            “24
            “Everyone who listens to these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on rock.
            25
            The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house.s But it did not collapse; it had been set solidly on rock.
            26
            And everyone who listens to these words of mine but does not act on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand.
            27
            The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. And it collapsed and was completely ruined.”
            28
            When Jesus finished these words, the crowds were astonished at his teaching,
            29
            for he taught them as one having authority, and not as their scribes.”

            Note verse 24 that precedes “Peter you are Rock …”. Jesus is stetting the stage for a solid foundation. The rest is also interesting:
            26
            And everyone who listens to these words of mine but does not act on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand.
            27
            The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. And it collapsed and was completely ruined.”

            Sand is what is formed by breaking up and dividing rock. If you built on what has been separated from the rock you will be ruined. As I stated earlier that Church Jesus founded on solid rock will last to the end of time. The shaky shifting sands of division are not a proper foundation. That is Protestantism in a nutshell.

            Given there is no foundation there then “Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” shows what fruits to expect from those not based on the original foundation.

          • Brenda Murphy

            I see that you are calling my belief false now, that figures. Well, God is the judge of all.
            I have given you scripture, but you have your man-made doctrine. You can keep it.
            My foundation is built on THE ROCK, which is Christ, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. 🙂

          • Mark

            Brenda, I am not calling your belief false, I think you are sincere in what you believe. As per Scripture you are not in the Church that Jesus founded however. If your denomination has a start date other than 33ad, it isn’t it.

            I agree God is the judge of all. And to whom much is given much is expected, and to one who little is given little is expected. Sincerity goes a long ways. God certainly isn’t out looking for excuses to condemn people. Faith is a journey, and it develops over a lifetime and centuries.

            Its not as if you haven’t called my faith false BTW. 🙂

            I too have posted scripture. And the doctrines I post are long standing and unchanging. Look at birth control as an example. Pre 1920’s not one protestant church was for it. Now most allow it. That is not following authoritative doctrine from God but changing with the times.

            Please stop butchering the meaning of the foundation. Christ claims to be the cornerstone, not the foundation. Look at Ephesians 2:19-21

            “19
            So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the holy ones and members of the household of God,
            20
            built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone.*
            21
            Through him the whole structure is held together and grows into a temple sacred in the Lord;”

            Christ is the cornerstone and the foundation is “the apostles and prophets”. Given this look at what Jesus said in Mathew, and not what you want it to be. Apostolic succession is important, it is a conferral of the authority the Church has to the end of time. Not on sand but a solid foundation of Rock that is the apostles and peter specifically.

            I know the Church built on a solid foundation with Jesus as its cornerstone and “Through him the whole structure is held together and grows into a temple sacred in the Lord;”

          • Brenda Murphy

            1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
            1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
            1Co 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.

            I believe that you are sincere in your beliefs, too, Mark.
            I believe that we all believe that Christ died for our sins. 🙂
            I know that you love the Lord, as well as others on here.
            Do you love him enough to search out the truth, in him?
            Seek it and you will find it, Jesus said. Take care.

          • Mark

            Brenda,
            Thanks for that scripture. I went and looked and if you go one verse farther back it states:
            “10
            According to the grace of God given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But each one must be careful how he builds upon it,”

            So Paul is talking of laying a foundation and stresses how each must be careful how they build etc.

            Certainly the foundation, cornerstone etc. is an allegory, but at each use it is the apostles who either are or are laying the foundation upon which the Church is built, the church of Jesus.

  • Emery

    God never cast anyone down to a non existent place. Hell is a fabrication of Christendom. It’s not scriptural. Only a couple translations like KJV and the Douay-Rheims use hell for hades and sheol. Hell is not real. Immortal soul is not real. We have no immortal soul. It is not an idea supported anywhere in the Bible. So if hell existed, what would be it’s purpose?

    • Don’t you have the parable of Lazarus in your
      Bible ?… Hell is real ! Thats where the rich man
      is, in torment ! …Verse 23

      23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

      Luke 16:19-31
      King James Version (KJV)
      19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
      20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
      21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
      22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
      23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
      24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
      25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
      26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
      27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
      28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
      29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
      30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
      31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

      How is it possible to twist this parable to mean anything else ?

      The JW have printed your own version of the bible to
      accommodate your own ( cult ) beliefs, that does not
      make your bible inspired by the word of God ! It makes
      your version of the bible inspired by man. The KJV can
      be used by anyone who has a thirst for the Word of God !
      No denomination is required, I stand with the KJV. Now,
      you will want to twist this ! that is because you need to
      make your cult beliefs fit your version of your bible, right !

  • Emery

    The archangel (head angel) is the one who was used to create the angels, Jesus. When God created his only begotten son, he was in heaven called Michael, the archangel. So Mark is right about that.

  • Emery

    In case you didn’t notice, at the top of the post, it says WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE.

    Idols are idolatry. Period. They are not the embodiment of a deity. They ARE the deity being worshiped. It IS a Catholic practice. The cross is proffered as the death instrument used on Jesus. It wasn’t. The scriptures said stauros. Stake or pole. Not cross. It’s a Catholic idol. It’s the pagan symbol for male genitalia.

    God terminated those rituals. Catholic rituals are not any established by God. They are ALL pagan in origin. The Vatican is largely Satanic. The Pope must participate in a Ninth Circle (Satanic Vatican Cult) ritual sacrifice of a newborn in order to ascend to the Papacy. It involves sex with, murder of, and drinking the blood of a new born. It’s been going on since the inception of Catholicism. Do a little research. There are literally thousands of articles and reports on these activities. At the very least, Catholicism is a sect of Christianity. A sect is a work of the flesh. Galations 5:19-21

    • Ruach

      Speaking of a cross above, you wrote:

      “It’s the PAGAN SYMBOL for male genitalia.”

      Then explain this:

      As it’s symbol, your church, the Jehovah Witness’s, uses a cross,

      a PAGAN SYMBOL … and …

      it’s P-E-N-E-T-R-A-T-I-N-G a crown !

      • Ruach

        @ Emery

        In describing a cross above you wrote:

        “It’s a CATHOLIC IDOL. It’s the PAGAN SYMBOL for male genitalia.”

        I’m still waiting on your explanation of why your church uses a CATHOLIC IDOL, a cross, what you call a PAGAN SYMBOL of male genitalia, that is

        P-E-N-E-T-R-A-T-I-I-N-G a crown! … as it’s symbol!

        And, please, …Don’t try to fool me with your “indoctrinated b.s.” … because I can SCHOOL you on occult symbolism.

        Hint:

        The high-level Freemasons know! … it’s in their lodges.

        And 33rd degree Freemason Charles Taze Russell knew…that’s why it was adopted by the JW’s as their symbol … it’s even on his PYRAMID headstone.

        General Albert Pike, Grand Commander, sovereign pontiff of universal freemasonry, giving instructions to the 23 supreme councils of the world.

        “That which we must say to the crowd is, we worship a god, but it is the god one adores without superstition. To you sovereign grand inspector general, we say this and you may repeat it to the brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees – the Masonic religion should be by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the LUCIFERIAN doctrine.”

        The 33rd degree is BESTOWED upon a 32nd mason … that means that he has “really hit the big time”, and “has arrived”!

        I trust that you can figure that out.

        I think Dan is still waiting on your answer to his Lazarus question also.

        • Ruach

          @ Emery

          In describing a cross above you wrote:

          “It’s a CATHOLIC IDOL. It’s the PAGAN SYMBOL for male genitalia.”

          I’m still waiting on your explanation of why your church uses a CATHOLIC IDOL, a cross, what you call a PAGAN SYMBOL of male genitalia, that is

          P-E-N-E-T-R-A-T-I-N-G a crown! … as it’s symbol!

          I’m still waiting !

          • Ruach

            @ Emery

            In describing a cross above you wrote:

            “It’s a CATHOLIC IDOL. It’s the PAGAN SYMBOL for male genitalia.”

            I’m still waiting on your explanation of why your church uses a CATHOLIC IDOL, a cross, what you call a PAGAN SYMBOL of male genitalia, that is

            P-E-N-E-T-R-A-T-I-N-G a crown! … as it’s symbol!

            I’m STIIIILL waiting !

    • Mark

      “… & hail Marys crap which is also wrong Mary is not to be worshiped at all”. God, who gave the 10 commandments included “Honor you mother and Father”, what makes you think he would be so callous to his Mother?

      Lets look at Mary in scripture.

      Read John 2:1-11 “The Wedding at Cana. 1* On the third day there was a wedding* in Cana* in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 [And] Jesus said to her, “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you….”

      Here we have Mary asking for a favor for the Bride and Groom and Jesus does it even though it is not his time. In fact at Mary’s intercession his time started, as this kicked off the 3 Years ministry with this the 1st public miracle. Note he says “Woman” the same as used in Genesis (3:15 “And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed”) and Revelation 12 (“The Woman and the Dragon. 1 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.”). So God shows Mary in scripture in an elevated position with a crown etc. What do you think the crown means? Why did God reveal this image of Mary with a crown? Why do you disparage that which God exults?

      So Mary is at the beginning and the end of scripture! If you keep reading in Revelation you get “17 Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus”. Mary is directly in the ongoing struggle against the Devil, and it is in Scripture! Furthermore those with Mary (The Catholic Church)are pointed out as THE ONES “who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus”. Its sculptural and I know I choose to be with Mary and part of those “who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus”.

      By the way why do you think Satan worshipers hold a “Black Mass” and not a “Black Tent Revival”? Satan knows what Church is the one, and he wants to distort it for his own ego.

      You imply that “By praying to Mary you elevate her to a deity.” No we don’t. You have been wrong to this point so please understand you just do not understand. Mary is a creature created and particularly blessed by God. She was the new arc that held Jesus. She is Full of grace. Jesus followed the commandments to Honor his Father and Mother, would you expect less? Catholics recognize this. She is the Mother of Jesus. She too was foretold in the Old Testament (as was John the Baptist etc).

      He mentions her at the beginning and the end of scripture. Note to protestants that want to attack Mary, God warns about “enmity Between you and the woman…”, are you with Satan or Gods Church, the Catholic Church aligned with Jesus’s mother Mary?

  • Emery

    No. Hell does not exist. The Bible does not say hell exists. You are reading a Bible that is not accurate. The KJV and the Catholic Bibles changed hades and sheol to hell. They removed the 6996 instances of God’s personal name, Jehovah, and replaced it with God and Lord. In the Catholic Bible, they replaced Jehovah with Lord and God in red ink. The original texts contain NO word “hell”, and contain Jehovah 6996 times. You are using a fraudulent translation.

    • Oh I see ! your cult the JW has the real bible right ? Never mind that
      the KJV the WORD OF GOD has been used world wide for the last
      400 yrs ! Millions upon millions have been saved through the Word
      of God in the KJV.

      Eph 1:13-14
      13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
      14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

      Eph 2:8-9
      8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
      9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

      Or don’t you have these verses ?

      You didn’t answer the previous question either! do you have
      the parable of Lazerous in your in your bible ? If so, where
      does the rich man go when he dies ?

      • Ruach

        @ Mike

        JW’s trash the KJV that they know nothing about.

        It’s no secret that the KJ has been “tampered with”.

        Having said that, let me say this …

        Once you know “who” tamperd with it and “why” then it becomes the easiest to correct.

        Instead of correcting it the JW’s take the “already tampered with” KJV and then tamper with it even further to create their ” Luciferian-based – Jesus is an *angel ” – NWT.

        [*Remember that Lucifer is an angel, and that the second definition of anti-Christ is : “false Christ”.]

        That’s what high-level, Lucifer-worshipping Freemasons like Charles Taze Russell do… take a known Truth, the Bible, and then “twist” it a little bit… it’s probably the most powerful form of creating a lie.

        The result is a bible that may closely “resemble” the Truth, but is nothing more than a carefully crafted lie!

        It’s what the ruler of this world does… lie.
        He is a liar and the father of it.

        As a side note:
        Mormonism teaches that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.
        Mormon founder, Joseph Smith, was a 33rd degree Freemason also.

        One doesn’t get closer to the TRUTH by going farther away from it!

        Even with man’s/Satan’s attempt at distorting The Creator’s Word,
        the fingerprints of the Almighty can be found on every page of the KJV!

        I am NOT patting myself on the back when I say this, but if all of us commenters could (physically) sit down at a round-table and have a discussion I could demonstrate something with the KJV
        that is absolutely UNIQUE to it!

        Something that no other translation has!

        Showed it to my JW’s aunt and she was speechless!
        Thought she could find it in her NWT …
        I remember her saying, “It should be in here (NWT) too!” …
        But it was not there.

        It’s something ONLY the Almighty could have done and it’s ONLY in the KJV !

        It’ too lengthy to type here.

        There ARE deeper levels in the KJ that exist in no other translation!

        • Brenda Murphy

          KJV is the deep one, that’s why not many people want to go into deep waters—they think it’s over their head, but it isn’t when the Holy Spirit guides you. I love the KJV .

  • Emery

    The Catholic church is not approved by God. Nor are any other sects of Christianity. No religion is approved by God. Not one. What is approved by God, is the original true faith taught by Jesus. When followed to the letter, one is approved by God. No sect follows it to the letter, or even loosely. Especially Catholicism. That sect is a totally pagan ritualistic conglomerate of several religions and does more to further Satan’s agenda than any other religion on Earth.

    • Emery,

      “What is approved by God, is the original true faith taught by Jesus. When followed to the letter, one is approved by God.”

      Then why don’t you believe what Jesus says ?

      Now this is at the end of the tribulation in 
      Revelation, Jesus returns physically, and
      judges the sheep and goats, notice where 
      the goats are going  in verse 41 and 46 ?
      An everlasting fire prepared for the devil
      and his angles, I would like you to also note 
      what is said in Chapter 26:1.

      Matthew 25:31-33
      31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
      32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
      33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
      34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world :

      Matthew 25:41-46
      41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
      42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
      43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
      44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
      45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
      46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

      Matthew 26:1
      26 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples,

      Everlasting punishment are part of the 
      teachings of Jesus, his own words !

      ” Jesus had finished all these sayings ”
      in Matthew 26:1 , How can you ignore 
      this fact ? Have you deleted this from
      your scriptures ? You still never answered 
      the question about the parable of Lazarus ?
      So I will take it that he has been deleted as 
      well, unless you can confirm otherwise ?

      • Brenda Murphy

        Good verses, Mike.

        Emery—

        Teaching that there is no hell to fear, might cause many to be lax in their faith…and not make it to heaven, only to come to the reality that there was a hell-fire, after all!
        Many are there, now, as we speak.

    • MRH

      “So how can they say the pope wants to make the RCC the one world church?”

      Because the RCC has ultimate power and prestige, and is the wealthiest cult in the world.. that’s why 🙁

      “Remember , it’s not by works that we are saved, it’s by grace through faith, and not of ourselves, there is nothing we can do to earn salvation. Grace is given to us freely by God.”

      Absolutely, so the big question is why do so many churches require works salvation? Are they not all cults sent to deceive the blind?

      P.S. Remember our battle is spiritual not material. All cults are occultic by nature, and thus tied into the NWO mystery 😉

    • MRH

      “Also one thing i found suspect about the Catholic church is the confessional.”

      Terri, the Catholic Church is just another major cult, and the largest one on the world and of history. Such cults are not based on grace, but of works salvation. Which is wholly contrary to sound church doctrine.

      P.S. It also might interest you that these big cults are all tied into the occult, and the proof is in their strange symbols and images 😉

  • Scott

    If Christ is in you, then His truth and law is written on your heart, and you walk by faith, and you don’t need a bunch of laws, catechisms, “Our Fathers” “Hail Marys” and every other man made religious trap the Catholic Church teaches to be “reconciled” or “absolved” or whatever other definition the Catholic Church makes up to be at peace with God.

    phl 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

    13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    (not the will of the priest)

  • Emery

    If you had ever studied carefully, the Revelation to John, you would know that association with ANY sect or division of the original faith that Jesus taught, means that Jesus will destroy you with the sword protruding from his mouth.

    • Brenda Murphy

      Emery—

      Do you know what that sword is…..I’ll just tell you!

      It’s the TRUE WORD OF GOD!

      Our God is a consuming fire!
      There’s one for you, too, Mark Hodge!!

  • Emery

    Since God’s Christian Witnesses are the only congregation of Christians that exist, and the only congregation fulfilling Mathew 24:14, your claim is baseless and abhorrent. Your typing Jehovah’s title, God as G_d is a Jewish practice, you still adhere to strange beliefs that are non-scriptural, as Natural born Jews who are orthodox and many who are not ignore the Christian Greek portion of the Bible. What you do is not approved by Jehovah God, what His witnesses do, is. Can’t change that with rediculous rhetoric and abusive talk. Your behavior is anything but that which Jesus taught. Not being critical, just making an observation based on scriptural teaching.

    • Dan (required)

      Oh Emery boo ho. If the truth is abusive! . Yet we only have words. To claim that I have no right to express myself with G-d only shines a brighter light on your insecurity and lack of assurance of what you believe. My abusiveness is only towards things that are vile to me. Like a turd being put under my nose I am disgusted with your nonsense. I am but a simple servant of G-d. I don’t mince words Emery. Usually I would find common ground with someone of another faith. But, your beliefs are an infection to Christianity. To realize that you infect children with your nonsense is to use your word Abhorrent to me. Nothing you say is based on scripture pal. You are lost Emery. I will say My G-d gives us choices Emery , so the door is still open. But, you must walk through yourself.

  • Emery

    Scott;
    Thanks for your post. Right on the money. It’s a shame that the vast majority of the world do not behave as Christ instructed, or practice what he taught. It would be quite a different place if it were so. It will become such a place in the not too distant future. Only the Father knows the day and the hour, the son doesn’t even know. I look forward to the final battle of God Almighty, and the restoration of the Earth to the Edenic paradise that God purposed originally. It will be a pleasure to be alive in a world where everyone is righteous, death is no more, sickness and sorrow are ancient history. It may be a little tough to watch almost the entire population of the planet perish in that battle, but the aftermath will more than make up for it.

  • Emery

    The texts you have quoted are not accurate translations, but interpretations like those found int he KJV and the Catholic Bibles. They don’t match the original texts. As for you demanding that I do your research for you, you can forget that. If you want to read about Lazarus in the NWT, then do so. It is not my place to do your work for you. You can read it online.

    • I was not demanding anything from you ! Let alone research !
      a simple yes we have Lazarus in our bible or no we don’t have
      Lazarus would have suffice ! So let’s not exaggerate ah ! But
      I see every time hell is mentioned in the scriptures you pull
      the old the KJV has the wrong translation nonsense ! The fact
      is you, and the whole JW sect do not follow the teaching of
      Jesus Christ, the JW have manufactured your own teaching
      and placed the name of Jesus in these teachings to give them
      some sort of christian validity, no better than the catholic pagan
      church that you despise ! By the way, I do my own research,
      asking you would be like asking a catholic or a Muslim, I would
      know the result of the research before I read it, a compiled thesis
      on heresy.

  • Emery

    Quite correct. Baptism is the public declaration of your committment to the faith that Jesus taught. The Bible instructs us to make such a public declaration. It is a command. In not honoring even one command of God or Jesus, we are poking God in the eye with a sharp stick.

    • Really ! I wonder what God is going to do when you have to explain
      to him that the JW decided to print their own version of the bible ?
      Will you tell God he had the wrong translation ?

      • Brenda Murphy

        Probably…..

  • Emery

    If you weren’t such a brainwashed drone of Christendom, and you did a little of your own research, you would see clearly that the NWT and the King James Bibles say pretty much the same thing. The exceptions are where the KJV omits God’s personal name, and puts hell where the original Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek scrolls use sheol and hades. There are a lot of other changes made at the council at Nicea and put into the KJV, but you would never be humble and acknowledge them, since you are not a Christain. Jesus taught us to do many things, and one of them was to adopt humility, love Jehovah God with your whole heart, soul9life) and mind, and to love one another as he loved us. It is apparant that you don’t do those things, thus proving your lack of Christianity. Independent scholars all over the world even hail the NWT as the MOST ACCURATE TRANSLATION OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES in the history of it’s being printed. It adheres as exactly as humanly possible to the original texts. It is checked every day of every year for new information that may alter the translation of a word here and a word there. The King James Bible hasn’t been checked for accuracy since the council at Nicea, a LONG time ago. So stop being so haughty and prideful, and stop being so stubborn into thinking that a work written by political factions centuries ago, and not by you, could never have been altered to serve a political purpose. It was, a LOT.

    • Are you doing this for brownie points or something ? trying to
      earn your salvation are you ? You know, like JW who come
      door to door then write it in their books that they have filled
      their quoter. I told you, I do my own research, strange though ?
      You claim you have the most accurate translations, yet the most
      ridiculous beliefs, on par with Scientology ! That’s how the world
      views you, freaks, but not for Jesus, as for being hauty, you
      believe your the only ones thats got everything right. When
      nothing could be further from the truth you imbecile. You
      allowed yourself to be brainwashed by heretics masquerading
      as a faith in God. No doubt you have brainwashed people
      yourself., and will continue to do so with your heretic beliefs.

  • Emery

    Nope. It is at His son’s direction. It is the single most accurate Bible in comparison to the original texts that has ever existed. You would never check this out, because you are a drone of Christendom, and have no independent thought. You only swallow what others tell you, like your church, that is NOT approved by God. It is a sect, a division of the original faith, that was not called a religion, it was called the one true faith. God works hard to ensure that we are able to continue printing and distributing that translation, since we are the only people on Earth that work toward the fulfillment of Matthew 24:14, where it says “Matthew 24:14

    Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    NWT 2013 Matthew 24:14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations,+ and then the end will come

    Oh gee, it says the same thing as the KJV. Fancy that! You are an idiot.

    • This from a clown who thinks Jesus is an angel, your an absolute moron
      along with the JW cult.

      • Brenda Murphy

        NO Mike,
        He’s just a little lost puppy, who needs Jesus….I love you Emery.

        Ask Jesus to show you the way!

        Be gentle, Mike.
        Jesus loves Emery, too.

        • Well, I can assure you of this Brenda, the next two JW that turn
          up at my door, will certainly be shown the way.

          I don’t see him as a puppy, I see him as a wolf !

          • Brenda Murphy

            Well, a wolf pup, then! lol

    • MRH

      True Martha, as honest faith in the gospel message determines things 🙂

      P.S. A Christian is one born of the Spirit. Personally, I feel there is too much religion in Christianity, and very little regarding true Christianity. Fact is, Christianity is a relationship with God, not a religion per se 😉

  • Emery

    King James Version 1 Thessalonians 4:16
    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first.

    NWT 1 Thess. 4:16 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s+ voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first

    So, who’s the clown again? And Jesus did NOT start a cult. You are quite blasphemous.

    • Well, I’ll tell you again…your a clown bozo !

  • Emery

    My dear, you are anything but a servant of God. You are, either wittingly or unwittingly, a servant of Satan. You do not behave as Jesus taught that a Christian should. You have no accurate knowledge of what he taught. You have no accurate knowledge of his Father’s word. So how could you possibly be what you falsely claim to be? You are not emotionally stable either, as you exhibit signs of agitation when someone challenges your false knowledge. That indicates at the least, insecurity.

    You are rude and abusive and haughty. The Bible teaches AGAINST all of those behaviors. Maybe a concentrated course in Proverbs would show you the proper way to behave. I strongly suggest it.

    • Brenda Murphy

      If you are talking to me, I don’t truly know what to say to that.
      Oh, wait a minute, something did come to mind…..

      Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
      Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
      Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
      Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
      Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
      Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
      Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

      • Emery, you condescending hypocrite, You teach a false
        gospel. Who are you to call anyone out !

    • Dan (required)

      No I called you out Emery. Why are you wasting your time trolling here. You know your beliefs are not ours, so what are your intentions? Your here causing trouble. That’s a FACT. That’s really Christian of you. However you’ve made no challenge. But, you pick up on the agitation well that’s GOOD. G-d has warriors Emery. So all of us aren’t smiling and saying (G-d bless you all the time)! So you’ll pardon me if I’m not delicate. By chance are you a chick ? Because you called me dear. Anyway being pious only proves how ignorant you are as we all fall short.(EVERYONE) I’m honest and I live my life that way . So there now you actually know something about me. My agitation is not directed to you but to your cult. I’m sure your a peach!

  • Emery

    Sorry you’re so stumped upon reading that 1 Thessalonians scripture. It’s not easy learning that your long held beliefs that have been taught to you for so long, are not correct.

  • Emery

    The concept of hell was introduced to Christendom many centuries ago, to keep people from leaving Christendom. It is NOT a scriptural concept. Careful examination of the original Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek texts will show this with no question left to chance. It wasn’t even put into the scriptures until the Council of Nicea decided what our Bible should look like. It was done for monetary and political reasons, not for accuracy to God’s word. Now, how can someone be in a non-existent hell, if the scriptures teach that there is NO immortal soul? The Bible is pretty clear on that topic. There is NO question about it. The soul(life) that sins dies. When one dies, nothing survives death. Your thoughts do perish. And on and on and on. Way too many scriptures teach against hell and immortal soul for you to be correct. That’s like saying God is a three headed God who burns people. He is ONE GOD ALMIGHTY. Jesus is His only begotten son. Holy Spirit is God’s active force, used to perform miracles, create everything through Jesus, raise the dead, protect and comfort, teach, and so on. No mention anywhere that Holy Spirit is a person. No mention of a cross either. The Greek word stauros was used. It only translates into pole or stake. The cross was introduced approximately 450 C.E. to attract pagans to Christendom. The cross is the pagan symbol for male genitalia. All of the paganistic things infiltrated into Christendom got there by the influence of Satan, not God, not Jesus. Study the original texts. Not some misbegotten supposed translation like the King James or the Catholic Bibles. It only takes about a year to go through each sentence from the original texts and compare it to modern Bibles. The results are fascinating, and sad all at the same time. A lot of things that were originally in the texts were interpreted, and not translated, in several English “translations”. Try it. It’s quite a journey, and extremely enlightening and educational. If you were to do so, you would never go near a church or religion again. You would be compelled to engage in pure worship of Jehovah God. You would be drawn to the original faith that Jesus taught, and avoid like the plague, the false teachings of all of Christendom.

  • Emery

    You are partially right about that.

  • Emery

    There is no wrong translation. There is only wrong interpretation. Any interpreting of the scriptures, such as the KJV and the Catholic Bibles, never renders the correct meaningl. They are not solely translations. The scriptures contain within them admonitions to not interpret the scriptures. To not add to or take away from the prophecies. They also say “do interpretations not belong only to God?”

  • Emery

    There you go again, saying that God’s only begotten son, Jesus, started a cult. Sounds like a pretty dangerous thing to say about your creator, and your King.

  • ZION

    Oh ye of little faith, catholics are baptized into the same ideology, reality, destiny and worship of mans perishing words, NOT CHRIST’S. A TRUE CHIRSTIAN CHILD OF GOD BELIEVES IN JESUS CHRIST’S WORDS AND THE POWER OF HIS BLOOD OVER ALL THINGS, BRINGING EDEN AND IMMORTALITY TO THE BELIEVER. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES OPPOSITE OF THIS TRUTH. Romans 1
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    Greeting

    1 Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

    7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:
    Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Desire to Visit Rome
    8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of His Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers, 10 making request if, by some means, now at last I may find a way in the will of God to come to you. 11 For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift, so that you may be established— 12 that is, that I may be encouraged together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

    13 Now I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that I often planned to come to you (but was hindered until now), that I might have some fruit among you also, just as among the other Gentiles. 14 I am a debtor both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to wise and to unwise. 15 So, as much as is in me, I am ready to preach the gospel to you who are in Rome also.

    The Just Live by Faith
    16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,[a] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

    God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness
    18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

    24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

    26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

    • ZION

      2 Peter 2
      New King James Version (NKJV)
      Destructive Doctrines

      2 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does[a] not slumber.

      Doom of False Teachers

      4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.

      Depravity of False Teachers

      12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

      17 These are wells without water, clouds[b] carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.[c]

      Deceptions of False Teachers

      18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped[d] from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,”[e] and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

      • ZION

        Jude 1
        New King James Version (NKJV)
        Greeting to the Called

        1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James,

        To those who are called, sanctified[a] by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:

        2 Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.

        Contend for the Faith

        3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God[b] and our Lord Jesus Christ.

        Old and New Apostates

        5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

        8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

        Apostates Depraved and Doomed

        12 These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about[c] by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

        14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

        Apostates Predicted

        16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. 17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. 19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.

        Maintain Your Life with God

        20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

        22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;[d] 23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,[e] hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

        Glory to God

        24 Now to Him who is able to keep you[f] from stumbling,
        And to present you faultless
        Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,
        25 To God our Savior,[g]
        Who alone is wise,[h]
        Be glory and majesty,
        Dominion and power,[i]
        Both now and forever.
        Amen.

    • ZION

      1 Corinthians 15
      New King James Version (NKJV)
      The Risen Christ, Faith’s Reality

      15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

      3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

      9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

      The Risen Christ, Our Hope

      12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

      The Last Enemy Destroyed

      20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.”[a] But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

      Effects of Denying the Resurrection

      29 Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead? 30 And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? 31 I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32 If, in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”[b]

      33 Do not be deceived: “Evil company corrupts good habits.” 34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.

      A Glorious Body

      35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.

      39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh[c] of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.

      40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.

      42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.”[d] The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

      46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord[e] from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear[f] the image of the heavenly Man.

      Our Final Victory

      50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”[g]

      55 “O Death, where is your sting?[h]
      O Hades, where is your victory?”[i]
      56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

      58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

  • Emery

    Bare minimum, Catholicism is a sect, a division of Christianity. Try reading Galations 5:19-21

  • Emery

    That’s correct. And your point?

  • Emery

    Still trying to find out what your point is. You are engaging in false teachings, and accepting them, and listing what happens to those teachers and their students. I don’t understand why you would prove my point for me, when you’ve been so against the truth throughout this discussion.

  • Brenda Murphy

    @ Emery~~

    I leave you with this—

    Jud 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
    Jud 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
    Jud 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
    Jud 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
    Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
    Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
    Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
    Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
    Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

    • ZION

      John 17
      New King James Version (NKJV)
      Jesus Prays for Himself

      17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

      Jesus Prays for His Disciples

      6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.

      9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me,[b] that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world,[c] I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept;[d] and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

      Jesus Prays for All Believers

      20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will[e] believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

      24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

      • ZION

        1 Corinthians 6
        New King James Version (NKJV)
        Do Not Sue the Brethren

        6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 4 If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? 5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers!

        7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

        Glorify God in Body and Spirit

        12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power.

        15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.”[b] 17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

        18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body[c] and in your spirit, which are God’s.

        • ZION

          Revelation 21
          New King James Version (NKJV)
          All Things Made New

          21 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John,[a] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

          5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me,[b] “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

          6 And He said to me, “It is done![c] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,[d] and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[e] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

          The New Jerusalem

          9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me[f] and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.”[g] 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy[h] Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.

          14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names[i] of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he who talked with me had a gold reed to measure the city, its gates, and its wall. 16 The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal. 17 Then he measured its wall: one hundred and forty-four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel. 18 The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass. 19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.

          The Glory of the New Jerusalem

          22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it,[j] for the glory[k] of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24 And the nations of those who are saved[l] shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.[m] 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it.[n] 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes[o] an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

          • ZION

            Revelation 22
            New King James Version (NKJV)
            The River of Life

            22 And he showed me a pure[a] river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

            The Time Is Near

            6 Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy[b] prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.

            7 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

            8 Now I, John, saw and heard[c] these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.

            9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For[d] I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” 10 And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous[e] still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

            Jesus Testifies to the Churches

            12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”[f]

            14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,[g] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But[h] outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

            16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

            17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

            A Warning

            18 For[i] I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add[j] to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away[k] his part from the Book[l] of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

            I Am Coming Quickly

            20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.”

            Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!

            21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.[m] Amen.

  • Emery

    I still don’t understand why you would support what I’ve said, when you’ve been so against the truth from the outset. What point are you trying to make?

  • Emery

    If you are so against the truth of the Bible, why are you supporting my position? That makes no sense. Are you trying to make a point?

  • Brenda Murphy

    Wow, Zion, God gave me the same verses, as you, at the same time! Amen!

  • ZION

    Luke 11:22
    But when a stronger than he comes upon him and overcomes him, he takes from him all his armor in which he trusted, and divides his spoils.
    Luke 11:21-23 (in Context) Luke 11 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
    1 John 5:4
    For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
    1 John 5:3-5 (in Context) 1 John 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
    1 John 5:5
    Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
    1 John 5:4-6 (in Context) 1 John 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
    Revelation 2:7
    “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’
    Revelation 2:6-8 (in Context) Revelation 2 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
    Revelation 2:11
    “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”’
    Revelation 2:10-12 (in Context) Revelation 2 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
    Revelation 2:17
    “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it.”’
    Revelation 2:16-18 (in Context) Revelation 2 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
    Revelation 2:26
    And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—
    Revelation 2:25-27 (in Context) Revelation 2 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
    Revelation 3:5
    He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
    Revelation 3:4-6 (in Context) Revelation 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
    Revelation 3:12
    He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
    Revelation 3:11-13 (in Context) Revelation 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
    Revelation 3:21
    To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
    Revelation 3:20-22 (in Context) Revelation 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
    Revelation 21:7
    He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

    • ZION

      ohn 10
      New King James Version (NKJV)
      Jesus the True Shepherd

      10 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6 Jesus used this illustration, but they did not understand the things which He spoke to them.

      Jesus the Good Shepherd

      7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who ever came before Me[a] are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

      11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

      17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

      19 Therefore there was a division again among the Jews because of these sayings. 20 And many of them said, “He has a demon and is mad. Why do you listen to Him?”

      21 Others said, “These are not the words of one who has a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”

      The Shepherd Knows His Sheep

      22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. 24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

      25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.[b] 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

      Renewed Efforts to Stone Jesus

      31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”

      33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

      34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?[c] 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe[d] that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” 39 Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand.

      The Believers Beyond Jordan

      40 And He went away again beyond the Jordan to the place where John was baptizing at first, and there He stayed. 41 Then many came to Him and said, “John performed no sign, but all the things that John spoke about this Man were true.” 42 And many believed in Him there.

      • ZION

        John 3
        New King James Version (NKJV)
        The New Birth

        3 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”

        3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

        4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

        5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

        9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

        10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.[a] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but[b] have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

        18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

        John the Baptist Exalts Christ

        22 After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized. 23 Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized. 24 For John had not yet been thrown into prison.

        25 Then there arose a dispute between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purification. 26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and all are coming to Him!”

        27 John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven. 28 You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, ‘I am not the Christ,’ but, ‘I have been sent before Him.’ 29 He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice. Therefore this joy of mine is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease. 31 He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32 And what He has seen and heard, that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony. 33 He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true. 34 For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure. 35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. 36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

  • Emery

    Advertising your ignorance of facts about the Christian Congregation is probably not wise. Did you know that Jehovah’s Witnesses used the King James Version until the late 1950’s? Did you know that when preparing the NWT, they use ALL Bibles of all languages and the original texts from which they were derived to create the NWT? I guess not. There is not a Bible that exists that Witnesses are not intimately familiar with. Witnesses are aware of when, how, and why each of them came into existence. Can you say the same? The Witnesses never do anything without thorough research using EVERY available work, scholar, and text to arrive at the finished work. That certainly didn’t happen with the creation of each of the individual so called translations like the KJV. It was created for monetary and political reasons, and to further Satan’s misleading of the entire inhabited Earth. Witnesses don’t “trash” the KJV, they merely speak the truth about it. You, however, have failed to do so.

    • Yet, the JW still have the same beliefs prior to the late 50s as
      they do now, despite the creation of the NWT, is that correct ?
      A simple yes or no will do ?

  • Emery

    Then it’s a shame it is so inaccurate.

    • Brenda Murphy

      I think you left LOVE out of your bible, Emery.

      I love the Lord.
      Remember…the patience of the saints. I just love that.
      There is LOVE in PATIENCE.
      Love is a work, and they say you don’t need works…well, then I guess you don’t need love, either, now do ya’?

      The thief loved Jesus…so he repented and got saved! Amen~~~

  • Emery

    You are the one who said you don’t need works. The scripture says that faith without works is dead. You argued vehemently that works were not needed. Now you change your tune. That’s good. Little baby steps is all that’s required to gain accurate knowledge of God.

    • Brenda Murphy

      No, you are wrong, you have mistaken me with someone else.
      Ask anyone on here, Ron and I have always said that faith without works was dead.
      That’s Bible.
      You are confused, to say the least.
      May God open your eyes to the truth. Amen. Goodbye, Emery. I am done with you here…for now.
      Besides, I have to go and cook dinner for my hubby. lol

    • Ruach

      @ Paul Robinson

      How right you are!

      When the Savior said, “Upon this rock I will build my Church…”, He was referring to Himself as a ROCK.

      In referring to Peter, Petros was used in the Greek and means: a small stone/pebble.

      The Greek word Petra is used to denote “ROCK” above and means:
      cliff/boulder.

      “Rock” (cliff/boulder) in the above verse does not mean Peter (small stone/pebble).

      Strong’s Greek Concordance

      4074 Pétros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros (“small stone”) then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra (“cliff, boulder,” Abbott-Smith).

      “4074 (Pétros) is an isolated rock and 4073 (pétra) is a cliff” (TDNT, 3, 100). “4074 (Pétros) always means a stone . . . such as a man may throw, . . . versus 4073 (pétra), a projecting rock, cliff” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).

      A cliff or boulder is seen as un-moveable.
      Whereas a small stone or pebble is easily moved.

      And, quite soon after these words were spoken Peter DENIED the Savior three times!

      Hardly someone to build a Church upon!

      Like you said Paul Robinson, Peter was “just a man” and flawed like the rest of us.

      Keep in mind that the Savior is called the Cornerstone of the Church/believers. The cornerstone is always the FIRST stone layed and everything else follows off of it.

      “In ancient building practices, the cornerstone was the principal stone placed at the corner of the edifice. The cornerstone was usually one of the largest, the most solid, and the most carefully constructed of any in the edifice. Jesus describes Himself as the Cornerstone that His church would be built upon, a unified body of believers, both Jew and Gentile.”

      Isaiah 28: 16

      Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious CORNER STONE, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

      And in the New Testament the cornerstone metaphor is continued with Paul while preaching to the Ephesian Christians to help them know the Savior better.

      In Chapter 2: 19-22, the comparison between Jesus and “Cornerstone” becomes very clear:

      “Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

      And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief CORNER STONE;

      In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

      In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

      Peter even confirmed Isaiah’s words when he wrote in 1 Peter 2:6:

      “Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.”

      Notice in Isaiah that the Cornerstone is layed in Zion! … NOT Rome!

      The “Saint Peter” of the RCC is traced back to a very powerful Babylonian high priest from Samaria… there’s LOTS of history on this guy from early historians.
      He went to Rome and performed “astonishing” feats, some same miracles. Because of this he became worshipped as a god and a statue/idol was built of him on the banks of the Tigres river.

      “Patr” or “Ptr” is a Chaldean term and is sometimes pronounced “peter”.

      It means “interpreter”, as in interpreter of spiritual matters.

      “Patr Simon” is Simon Magus of Acts 8!

      This is why The Almighty gave us the story of the two Simons in Acts 8, so that we could understand the beginnings of the “mystery of iniquity”.

      “For the mystery of iniquity doth ALREADY work:”

      Dr. E.L. Martin:

      SIMON MAGUS was a Babylonian priest. He was a part of the Babylonian community that had been living in the land of Northern Israel ever since the Northern Ten Tribes were carried away captive by the Assyrians. God tells us that these Samaritans, as they were called, were claiming to be the true people of God while at the same time practicing many heathen rites which came directly from Babylon (II Kings 17:41).

      This was the type of religious environment in which Simon Magus was born. This was the environment in which he commenced his own ministry and was finally proclaimed the “great one . . . the great power of God” — that is, God Himself (Acts 8:9-10).

      • Mark

        In the Greek, the gospels had to use the masculine form for the word (Peter) as they couldn’t use the feminine to address a man, it just wouldn’t be grammatically correct. Even so “the difference in meaning can only be found in Attic Greek, but the New Testament was written in Koine Greek—an entirely different dialect. In Koine Greek, both petros and petra simply meant “rock.” If Jesus had wanted to call Simon a small stone, the Greek lithos would have been used.” (ref below).

        But even that (Greek) is a translation of the Aramaic word Cephas (Kephas in its Hellenistic form) which is the word for Rock and the language spoken by Jesus (see http://archive.catholic.com/library/Peter_the_Rock.asp). Kephas is used numerous times in scripture. You must know the language in which the author of the book was writing in before you can determine the meaning. And it is clear that the meaning is “Rock”.

        Take the entire passage (not just the fragment you are struggling with) including “I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”. Even if Peter was a “Little pebble” with the ability to “bind on earth shall be bound in heaven” would make one heck of a splash! Ephesians 2:20 “You are built upon the foundations of the apostles and prophets, and Christ Jesus himself is the cornerstone.”. Peter is Rock, Jesus the Cornerstone, and the Catholic Church is built on the “foundations of the apostles and prophets” (apostolic succession etc. look up Matthias replacing Judas Iscariot Acts 1:12-26 etc…) in the fullest of terms.

        • Donna

          Good points, Mark!

          Jesus Christ is the cornerstone, but as St. Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:20, the foundation of the Church is the apostles and prophets. Only the Catholic Church can be traced back to the apostles. People need to ask themselves, “Is my church apostolic?”

          We only need to look to Acts 15 to see how the church functioned. There was a group of Christians who contended that circumcision was necessary for salvation, and they were teaching this based on their understanding of scriptures. There was no New Testament to dig into to search for an answer to this dilemma. Paul and Barnabas went back to Jerusalem to meet with the apostles over this question. They discussed it for some time, and it was the apostles who decided the answer to this question, based on Peter’s vision from God about the Gentiles. Paul and Barnabas were given instructions by the apostles about what to teach. The apostles had this authority. They belonged to the true Church, and those within who disagreed with their teachings – even then – were expected to follow the apostles’ teachings. Otherwise, they were considered schismatics.”We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.” (Acts 15:24)

          You also point out “apostolic succession” (Acts 1:12-26). Church leaders were appointed by recognized Church leaders. Protestants should not ignore this fact! Authority was conferred upon them by other apostles and bishops, and that is how this God-given authority has been passed down though the centuries. From the beginning, there were groups of Christians who taught and believed different things, but they separated themselves or were separated by the Church which claimed the apostles. As St. John wrote, “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” (1John 2:19)Clearly, to be in the true Church, it is necessary to remain with the Church that claims the apostles.

      • Brenda Murphy

        Exactly! Good work there, Ruach.

      • Donna

        Where are you getting your information from?!?

        In Eusebius’ Ecclesiastical History, written in the 4th Century, Eusebius ( a first-rate historian)records that Peter went to Rome when he learned that Simon Magus was there, perverting the Gospel and leading many astray. Peter was eventually crucified under Emperor Nero.

        You should read historical works from the first centuries, and not anti-Catholic, poorly researched books.

        • Ruach

          Y — A — W — N !!!

          I’ve grown bored with this.

          You wrote:

          “Where are you getting your information from?!?”

          And then said that I should “read historical works from the FIRST centuries,”.

          Notice below that Justin Martyr wrote in 152 A.D. and not in the 4th century.

          AS you read, IF you read, you’ll find TEN – SOLID – BIBLICAL – PROOFS that Simon Peter the Apostle was never in Rome!

          THE PRIMACY of the Roman Catholic Church depends upon one fundamental doctrine: the claim that Peter was the first Bishop of Rome and the founder of the Roman Church.

          At the TIMES the Catholics believe Peter was in Rome, THE BIBLE CLEARLY SHOWS HE WAS ELSEWHERE.

          The evidence is ABUNDANT and CONCLUSIVE.

          BY PAYING ATTENTION TO GOD’s OWN WORDS, no one need be deceived.

          Peter was NEVER the Bishop of Rome!

          Who History Says This Simon Magus Became!

          “When Justin Martyr wrote [152 A.D.] his Apology, the sect of the Simonians appears to have been formidable, for he speaks four times of their founder, Simon; and we need not doubt that he identified him with the Simon of the Acts. He states that he was a Samaritan, adding that his birthplace was a village called Gitta; he describes him as a formidable magician, and tells that he came to ROME in the days of Claudius Caesar (45 A.D.), and made such an impression by his magical powers, THAT HE WAS HONORED AS A GOD, a statue being erected to him on the Tiber, between the two bridges, bearing the inscription ‘Simoni deo Sancto’ (i.e., the holy god Simon)” Dictionary of Christian Biography,
          Vol. 4, p. 682).

          That these things actually happened CANNOT BE DOUBTED! Justin was writing to the Roman people at the time and they could certainly have exposed Justin’s credulity if what he said was not so. And, that a statue of Simon was actually erected is definite, for Justin asks the authorities in Rome to destroy it!

          There are many writers, who lived in Rome itself, who afterwards repeated Justin’s account. Those who want to reject these clear statements have nothing in their favor. Justin is clearly giving us fact!

          Hasting’s Dictionary of the Apostolic Church, Vol 2, p. 496, states that there is “very slight evidence on which to reject so precise a statement as Justin makes; a statement he would scarcely have hazarded in an apology addressed to Rome, where every person had the means of ascertaining its accuracy. If he made a mistake, it must have been at once exposed, and other writers would not have frequently repeated the story as they have done.”

          At the time of Claudius, it was illegal to erect a statue to any man as a god or greatly honored person unless the permission of the Emperor and the Senate had been secured. The statue was still standing in Justin’s day (152 A.D.), people were still giving regard to it.

          There are many other accounts of Simon’s traveling to Rome and becoming one of the great gods to the city and to the people of Rome. There are records which show that Simon “prophesies that Rome will be the scene of his crowning glory, when he will be adored as a god” Dictionary of Religion & Ethics, Vol. 11, p. 522).

          Simon Peter NOT With Simon Magus in Rome

          Later, about the fourth century, a flood of works came out about Peter encountering Simon Magus in Rome and overthrowing him. But these works are clearly fiction. Almost all scholars realize the absurdity of maintaining such a thing. In the first place, it can be Biblically shown that Peter the Apostle was NEVER in Rome when these fictitious writings say he should be.

          It was NOT Simon Peter who went to Rome to become Apostle to the Gentiles, but the SIMON in Rome was SIMON MAGUS!

          That Peter the Apostle was not with Simon Magus in Rome is made plain by the Encyclopedia Biblica, col. 4554.

          “The attempt has been made to meet this by pointing out that church fathers mention the presence of SIMON in Rome while at the same time NOT speaking of controversies between him and PETER. This is indeed true of Justin [one of the earliest witnesses — 152 A.D. who knows nothing of any presence of Peter in Rome at all, as also of Irenaeus.”

          Not only did Justin feel that Peter was NOT in Rome at the time, but his deliberate silence shows he didn’t want to perpetrate such fiction. After all, Justin lived very early in the history of the church, and the legend of the Apostle Peter’s being in Rome HADN’T GOT
          STARTED YET! Continuing with the Encyclopedia Biblica about Justin’s reference to SIMON MAGUS: “One part of this tradition — that about Simon’s presence in Rome — he [Justin] found himself able to accept [in fact he held it to be confirmed by the statue, which he brought into connection with Simon]; the other — that about Peter’s presence in Rome — he was unable to accept” (col. 4555).

          Of course Justin was unable to accept the latter teaching. The fact is, Simon Peter was NOT in Rome. It was another Simon who went there — SIMON MAGUS, the one bringing “Christianity” to them in the guise of the old Babylonian mystery religions. Simon came to Rome with the grand idea of e stablishing a UNIVERSAL RELIGION in the NAME of Christianity! And what is remarkable, he did just that!

          Next, we will see how Simon Magus became later confused with Simon Peter and how he cleverly brought into “Christianity” the mystery religions of Babylon.

          Peter Was NOT The First Pope!

          Here are TEN solid, Biblical proofs that Peter was not at Rome. Mark each in your Bible and understand them well, so YOU will not be deceived.

          THE PRIMACY of the Roman Catholic Church depends upon one fundamental doctrine: the claim that Peter was the first Bishop of Rome and the founder of the Roman Church.

          The teaching of Catholic historians tells us that Simon Peter went to Rome at the same time as Simon Magus in order to thwart his evils. This was during the reign of Claudius. After successfully combating the Magus, they tell us, Peter assumed the Roman bishopric and ruled it until the Neronian persecutions of 68 A.D., during which Peter was supposed to have been crucified upside down on Vatican hill. This is the basic story and Catholic writers never shirk in attempting to defend it. Some of them say that this general account is one of the most provable of historical events.

          But is it?

          The fact remains, many ecclesiastical authors of the second century, Justin Martyr among them, give information completely negating Peter’s supposed Roman bishopric. This is admitted by virtually all scholars — except conservative Catholics (Ency. Biblica, col. 4554). But, more important than this, the records of the True Church of God — the writings of the New Testament — absolutely refute the Roman Catholic claim.

          It is time that the world gets its eyes open to the truth of this matter — the truth, which is clearly revealed in the Word of God. The Apostle Peter was NEVER the Bishop of Rome!

          The Bible Teaching

          There are ten major New Testament proofs which completely disprove the claim that Peter was in Rome from the time of Claudius until Nero. These Biblical points speak for themselves and ANY ONE of them is sufficient to prove the ridiculousness of the Catholic claim. Notice what God tells us! The truth IS conclusive!

          PROOF ONE: We should consider Christ’s commission to Peter. This is often very embarrassing to Catholics, because Christ commissioned Peter to become chief minister to the CIRCUMCISED, not to uncircumcised Gentiles.

          “The gospel of the CIRCUMCISION was unto Peter; (For He that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)” (Gal. 2:7-8).

          Here we have it in the clearest of language. It was Paul, NOT Peter, who was commissioned to be the chief Apostle to the Gentiles. And who was it that wrote the Epistle to the ROMANS? It certainly WASN’T Peter!

          “And when James, Cephas [Peter], and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace [i.e., the gift or office] that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision” (Gal. 2:9).

          Paul further mentioned his special office as the Gentile Apostle in II Timothy 1:11: “Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.”

          PETER is NOWHERE called the Apostle to the Gentiles! This precludes him from going to Rome to become the head of a Gentile community.

          PROOF TWO: Paul specifically told the Gentile Romans that HE had been chosen to be their Apostle, not Peter.

          “I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable” (Rom. 15:16).

          How clear!

          Paul had the direct charge from Christ in this matter. He even further relates in Romans 15:18 that it was Christ who had chosen him “to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed.”

          PAUL Established Only TRUE Church at Rome

          PROOF THREE: We are told by Paul himself that it was he — not Peter — who was going to officially found the Roman Church. “I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established” (Rom. 1:11).

          Amazing! The Church at Rome had not been ESTABLISHED officially even by 55 or 56 A.D. However, the Catholics would have us believe that Peter had done this some ten years before — in the reign of Claudius.

          What nonsense!

          Of course you understand that NEITHER Peter nor Paul established the Catholic Church! But these proofs are given to illustrate that it is utterly impossible for PETER to have been in any way associated with ANY Church at Rome.

          PROOF FOUR: We find Paul not only wanting to establish the Church at Rome, but he emphatically tells us that his policy was NEVER to build upon another man’s foundation. “Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, LEST I SHOULD BUILD UPON ANOTHER MAN’S FOUNDATION”
          (Rom. 15:20).

          If Peter had “founded” the Roman Church some ten years before this statement, this represents a real affront to Peter. This statement alone is proof that Peter had never been in Rome before this time to “found”
          any church.

          Peter Not in Rome

          PROOF FIVE: At the end of Paul’s Epistle to the Romans he greets no fewer than 28 different individuals, but never mentions Peter once! See Romans 16 — read the whole chapter!

          Remember, Paul greeted these people in 55 or 56 A.D. Why didn’t he mention Peter? — Peter simply wasn’t there!

          PROOF SIX: Some four years after Paul wrote Romans, he was conveyed as a prisoner to Rome in order to stand trial before Caesar. When the Christian community in Rome heard of Paul’s arrival, they all went to meet him. “When THE brethren [of Rome] heard of us, they came to meet us” (Acts 28:15).

          Again, there is not a single mention of Peter among them. This would have been extraordinary had Peter been in Rome, for Luke always mentions by name important Apostles in his narration of Acts. But he says nothing of Peter’s meeting with Paul.

          Why? Because Peter was not in Rome!

          PROOF SEVEN: When Paul finally arrived at Rome, the first thing he did was to summon “the chief of the Jews together” (Acts 28:17) to whom he “expounded and testified the kingdom of God” (Verse 23).

          But what is amazing is that these chief Jewish elders claimed they knew very little even about the basic teachings of Christ. All they knew was that ‘‘as concerning this sect, we know that everywhere it is spoken against” (Verse 22). Then Paul began to explain to them the basic teachings of Christ on the Kingdom of God. Some believed — the majority didn’t.

          Now, what does all this mean? It means that if Peter, who was himself a strongly partisan Jew, had been preaching constantly in Rome for 14 long years before this time, AND WAS STILL THERE — how could these Jewish leaders have known so little about even the basic truths of Christianity? This again is clear proof Peter had not been in Rome prior to 59 A.D.

          No Mention of Peter in Paul’s Letters

          PROOF EIGHT: After the rejection of the Jewish elders, Paul remained in his own hired house for two years. During that time he wrote Epistles to the Ephesians, the Philippians, the Colossians, Philemon, and to the Hebrews. And while Paul mentions others as being in Rome during that period, he nowhere mentions Peter. The obvious reason is — the Apostle to the circumcision wasn’t there!

          PROOF NINE: With the expiration of Paul’s two year’s imprisonment, he was released. But about four years later (near 65 A.D.), he was again sent back a prisoner to Rome. This time he had to appear before the throne of Caesar and was sentenced to die. Paul describes these circumstances at length in II Timothy.

          In regard to his trial, notice what Paul said in II Timothy 4:16.

          “At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men [in Rome] forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.”

          This means, if we believe the Catholics, that Peter forsook Paul, for they tell us Peter was very much present at Rome during this time! Peter once denied Christ, but that was before he was converted. To believe that Peter was in Rome during Paul’s trial, is untenable!

          PROOF TEN: The Apostle Paul distinctly informs us that Peter was not in Rome in 65 A.D. — even though Catholics say he was. Paul said: “Only Luke is with me” (II Tim. 4:11).

          The truth becomes very plain. Paul wrote TO Rome; he had been IN Rome; and at the end wrote at least six epistles FROM Rome; and not only does he NEVER mention Peter, but at the last moment says: “Only Luke is with me.”

          Peter, therefore, was never Bishop of Rome!

          Where Was Peter?

          Near 45 A.D., we find Peter being cast into prison at Jerusalem (Acts 12:3, 4). In 49 A.D., he was still in Jerusalem, this time attending the Jerusalem Council. About 51 A.D., he was in Antioch of Syria where he got into differences with Paul because he wouldn’t sit or eat with Gentiles. Strange that the “Roman bishop” would have nothing to do with Gentiles in 51 A.D.!

          Later in about 66 A.D., we find him in the city of Babylon among the Jews (I Pet. 5:13). Remember that Peter was the Apostle to the CIRCUMCISED. Why was he in Babylon? Because history shows that there were as many Jews in the Mesopotamian areas in Christ’s time as there were in Palestine. It is no wonder we find him in the East. Perhaps this is the reason why scholars say Peter’s writings are strongly Aramaic in flavor — the type of Aramaic spoken in Babylon. Why of course! Peter was used to their eastern dialect.

          At the times the Catholics believe Peter was in Rome, the Bible clearly shows he was elsewhere. The evidence is abundant and conclusive. By paying attention to God’s own words, no one need be deceived. Peter was NEVER the Bishop of Rome!

          Link to full article is below.

          PLENTY of historical works here … PLENTY ! :

          http://www.reformation.org/simon_peter_versus_simon_magus.html

          • Mark

            “THE PRIMACY of the Roman Catholic Church depends upon one fundamental doctrine: the claim that Peter was the first Bishop of Rome and the founder of the Roman Church.”

            Actually the PRIMACY of the Roman Catholic Church depends upon one fundamental doctrine, that Peter held a place of primacy. He was certainly buried there.

            You make the jump that each prove he wasn’t there, better prof would be to document where he was. If you can’t prove where he was, and none of what you quote does not say he wasn’t there, it is nothing but speculation on your part. That isn’t prof.

            Rome is only mentioned by name 10 times in the New Testament, and mostly in regards to Paul. The NT wasn’t written to be a travel log, as that is not its focus.

            Other documents do talk of Peter in Rome, either explicitly or referentially.

            Your canned arguments are disputed at the following site:
            http://www.thecatholictreasurechest.com/petrom.htm

            All the rest below is quoted from:
            http://www.catholic.com/tracts/was-peter-in-rome

            “There is, in the greeting at the end of the first epistle: “The Church here in Babylon, united with you by God’s election, sends you her greeting, and so does my son, Mark” (1 Pet. 5:13, Knox). Babylon is a code-word for Rome. It is used that way multiple times in works like the Sibylline Oracles (5:159f), the Apocalypse of Baruch (2:1), and 4 Esdras (3:1). Eusebius Pamphilius, in The Chronicle, composed about A.D. 303, noted that “It is said that Peter’s first epistle, in which he makes mention of Mark, was composed at Rome itself; and that he himself indicates this, referring to the city figuratively as Babylon.”

            Consider now the other New Testament citations: “Another angel, a second, followed, saying, ‘Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of her impure passion’” (Rev. 14:8). “The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered great Babylon, to make her drain the cup of the fury of his wrath” (Rev. 16:19). “[A]nd on her forehead was written a name of mystery: ‘Babylon the great, mother of harlots and of earth’s abominations’” (Rev. 17:5). “And he called out with a mighty voice, ‘Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great’” (Rev. 18:2). “[T]hey will stand far off, in fear of her torment, and say, ‘Alas! alas! thou great city, thou mighty city, Babylon! In one hour has thy judgment come’” (Rev. 18:10). “So shall Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence” (Rev. 18:21).

            These references can’t be to the one-time capital of the Babylonian empire. That Babylon had been reduced to an inconsequential village by the march of years, military defeat, and political subjugation; it was no longer a “great city.” It played no important part in the recent history of the ancient world. From the New Testament perspective, the only candidates for the “great city” mentioned in Revelation are Rome and Jerusalem.

            “But there is no good reason for saying that ‘Babylon’ means ‘Rome,’” insists Boettner. But there is, and the good reason is persecution. The authorities knew that Peter was a leader of the Church, and the Church, under Roman law, was considered organized atheism. (The worship of any gods other than the Roman was considered atheism.) Peter would do himself, not to mention those with him, no service by advertising his presence in the capital—after all, mail service from Rome was then even worse than it is today, and letters were routinely read by Roman officials. Peter was a wanted man, as were all Christian leaders. Why encourage a manhunt? We also know that the apostles sometimes referred to cities under symbolic names (cf. Rev. 11:8).

            In any event, let us be generous and admit that it is easy for an opponent of Catholicism to think, in good faith, that Peter was never in Rome, at least if he bases his conclusion on the Bible alone. But restricting his inquiry to the Bible is something he should not do; external evidence has to be considered, too.

            Early Christian Testimony

            William A. Jurgens, in his three-volume set The Faith of the Early Fathers, a masterly compendium that cites at length everything from the Didache to John Damascene, includes thirty references to this question, divided, in the index, about evenly between the statements that “Peter came to Rome and died there” and that “Peter established his See at Rome and made the bishop of Rome his successor in the primacy.” A few examples must suffice, but they and other early references demonstrate that there can be no question that the universal—and very early—position (one hesitates to use the word “tradition,” since some people read that as “legend”) was that Peter certainly did end up in the capital of the Empire.

            A Very Early Reference

            Tertullian, in The Demurrer Against the Heretics (A.D. 200), noted of Rome, “How happy is that church . . . where Peter endured a passion like that of the Lord, where Paul was crowned in a death like John’s [referring to John the Baptist, both he and Paul being beheaded].” Fundamentalists admit Paul died in Rome, so the implication from Tertullian is that Peter also must have been there. It was commonly accepted, from the very first, that both Peter and Paul were martyred at Rome, probably in the Neronian persecution in the 60s.

            In the same book, Tertullian wrote that “this is the way in which the apostolic churches transmit their lists: like the church of the Smyrnaeans, which records that Polycarp was placed there by John; like the church of the Romans, where Clement was ordained by Peter.” This Clement, known as Clement of Rome, later would be the fourth pope. (Note that Tertullian didn’t say Peter consecrated Clement as pope, which would have been impossible since a pope doesn’t consecrate his own successor; he merely ordained Clement as priest.) Clement wrote his Letter to the Corinthians perhaps before the year 70, just a few years after Peter and Paul were killed; in it he made reference to Peter ending his life where Paul ended his.

            In his Letter to the Romans (A.D. 110), Ignatius of Antioch remarked that he could not command the Roman Christians the way Peter and Paul once did, such a comment making sense only if Peter had been a leader, if not the leader, of the church in Rome.

            Irenaeus, in Against Heresies (A.D. 190), said that Matthew wrote his Gospel “while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church.” A few lines later he notes that Linus was named as Peter’s successor, that is, the second pope, and that next in line were Anacletus (also known as Cletus), and then Clement of Rome.

            Clement of Alexandria wrote at the turn of the third century. A fragment of his work Sketches is preserved in Eusebius of Caesarea’s Ecclesiastical History, the first history of the Church. Clement wrote, “When Peter preached the word publicly at Rome, and declared the gospel by the Spirit, many who were present requested that Mark, who had been for a long time his follower and who remembered his sayings, should write down what had been proclaimed.”

            Lactantius, in a treatise called The Death of the Persecutors, written around 318, noted that “When Nero was already reigning (Nero reigned from 54–68), Peter came to Rome, where, in virtue of the performance of certain miracles which he worked by that power of God which had been given to him, he converted many to righteousness and established a firm and steadfast temple to God.”

            These citations could be multiplied. (Refer to Jurgens’ books or to the Catholic Answers tract Peter’s Roman Residency.) No ancient writer claimed Peter ended his life anywhere other than in Rome. On the question of Peter’s whereabouts they are in agreement, and their cumulative testimony carries enormous weight.

          • Donna

            Yes, Peter was most certainly in Rome!!

            Read the record and the witness accounts in Eusebius’ History of the Church, Book II, Chapter 25:

            4. The Roman Tertullian is likewise a witness of this. He writes as follows: “Examine your records. There you will find that Nero was the first that persecuted this doctrine, particularly then when after subduing all the east, he exercised his cruelty against all at Rome. We glory in having such a man the leader in our punishment. For whoever knows him can understand that nothing was condemned by Nero unless it was something of great excellence.”

            5. Thus publicly announcing himself as the first among God’s chief enemies, he was led on to the slaughter of the apostles. It is, therefore, recorded that Paul was beheaded in Rome itself, and that Peter likewise was crucified under Nero. This account of Peter and Paul is substantiated by the fact that their names are preserved in the cemeteries of that place even to the present day.

            6. It is confirmed likewise by Caius, a member of the Church, who arose under Zephyrinus, bishop of Rome. He, in a published disputation with Proclus, the leader of the Phrygian heresy, speaks as follows concerning the places where the sacred corpses of the aforesaid apostles are laid:

            7. “But I can show the trophies of the apostles. For if you will go to the Vatican or to the Ostian way, you will find the trophies of those who laid the foundations of this church.”

            8. And that they both suffered martyrdom at the same time is stated by Dionysius, bishop of Corinth, in his epistle to the Romans, in the following words: “You have thus by such an admonition bound together the planting of Peter and of Paul at Rome and Corinth. For both of them planted and likewise taught us in our Corinth. And they taught together in like manner in Italy, and suffered martyrdom at the same time.” I have quoted these things in order that the truth of the history might be still more confirmed.

            Ruach, Eusebius uses records and witness accounts. Where do you get your information from? Notice the things Eusebius writes:

            1 – “The Roman Tertullian is likewise A WITNESS of this. He writes as follows: “EXAMINE your RECORDS.”

            2 – “It is, therefore, RECORDED that Paul was beheaded in Rome itself, and that Peter likewise was crucified under Nero.”

            3 – “THIS ACCOUNT of Peter and Paul is SUBSTANTIATED by the FACT that their names are preserved in the cemeteries of that place even to the present day.”

            4 – “It is CONFIRMED likewise by Caius, a member of the Church, who arose under Zephyrinus, bishop of Rome.”
            He, in a PUBLISHED DISPUTATION with Proclus, the leader of the Phrygian heresy, speaks as follows concerning the places where the sacred corpses of the aforesaid apostles are laid:”

            5 – “But I CAN SHOW the trophies of the apostles. For if you will go to the Vatican or to the Ostian way, you WILL FIND the trophies of those who laid the foundations of this church.”

            6 – “And that they both suffered martyrdom at the same time IS STATED BY DIONYSIUS, bishop of Corinth, in his epistle to the Romans, in the following words: “You have thus by such an admonition bound together the planting of Peter and of Paul AT ROME and Corinth.”

            7 – “I HAVE QUOTED THESE THINGS IN ORDER THAT THE TRUTH OF THE HISTORY MIGHT BE STILL MORE CONFIRMED.”

            This looks pretty well researched to me, Ruach. Unfortunately, you are reading nothing but anti-Catholic propaganda and you are being duped. Open your eyes. Read the history yourself and stop relying on others to do it for you.

        • Brenda Murphy

          Rome was a pagan country……and still is, for all the preaching that Paul did, they still turned to their old gods!

    • Donna

      Paul,

      There are at least 3 households listed in the New Testament in which all the members were baptized. How likely is it that there were no babies or little children included? This would have included servants, too.

      1 – Acts 16:15 – Lydia believed, and she and her household were baptized.
      2 – Acts 16:33 – The jailor believed and he and ALL his household were baptized.
      3 – 1 Cor. 1:16 – Paul states that he baptized the household of Stephanus.

      In Colossians 2:9-12, Paul says that baptism has replaced circumcision. Babies were circumcised.

      Jesus said to let the little children come to Him, that the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to them! Protestants are always complaining that Catholics perform works when salvation is a free gift. But Protestants don’t really believe that because everyone who would be baptized is expected to be able to make some sort of intellectual acknowledgement, or “believe” and make a confession of faith (works). What better example is there than giving this free gift of salvation to babies – who are totally helpless and can do nothing to receive the blessing?

      • Mark

        Very nicely stated Donna. I would add that Confirmation takes place after the age of reason. It does not replace baptism in anyway however.

        • Donna

          Thank you! And yes, we find Confirmation in the Acts of the apostles, as well!

          Mark, are you also writing under Mark Gaylord, or is he a different person? It’s good to see some Catholics using scriptures to defend the truth.

          • Mark

            Yes, I think I ended up double registering when I first was figuring out this site. Scriptures at least have a chance to illuminate, since any tradition would be dismissed as man-made with out any attempt by many if not most at seeing the truth. And even the authority granted to the church in Scripture would be ignored as you noted above on a previous post.

  • Emery

    You have lots of company. The vast majority of the world reject accurate knowledge of God’s word and His requirements for us. You two are only two more. It is, however, sad. It always is. God is always on the lookout for those with an honest heart, I only wish He had found honest hearts with the two of you.

  • Emery

    You do realize that you’re receiving your only reward now, in this life. Nothing as a reward will be yours as a result of resurrection, and you certainly won’t survive the final battle of God Almighty. None of His enemies will survive it. Revelation to John states that those of you who die during the final battle will NOT be resurrected, but are subject to the second death (Gehenna). So, enjoy it while you can because it is just about to begin. Only one sign left that Jesus gave foretelling the final battle.

    • Emerys judgement of those who don’t believe his
      Perverted cult. Apparently he has been promoted
      to judge while promoting his heresies, they can do
      that in this cult ! They can even print their own
      perversion of the bible the NWT.

      • Brenda Murphy

        We’ll just shake off the dust…..

    • Donna

      Yes, Paul, read your Bible! Please refer to my comment above concerning baptism.

  • Emery

    It is in your best interest to read the scriptures regarding what He does to those who attack His Earthly organization, because that’s what you are doing. He considers it as a sharp stick in His eye and He doesn’t react well to it.

  • Mark

    An interesting take on the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
    http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/incredjw.htm

    What a great racket. Start a publishing house and staff it with converts who think only they are right and they have to save the world. What gets saved by the business is all the $ that they send to NY. They report no charitable activity with the billions they have taken in, not to mention the millions of people whom they have taken in and taken advantage of. The local groups pay cash and either sell the publications or give them away at their own expense.

    So this is a scheme for divine profit! And Emery is one of its salesmen.

    • Dan (required)

      Good post Mark. They can’t stand it when you them how their organization started.. IT’s all their in black and white EMERY!

      Read it and weep!

  • Emery

    Pay cash? Sell publications? Are you nuts? No such thing happens. As late as the late 60’s subscriptions to the WatchTower were given at cost of production, about five cents per issue. Bibles were between fifty cents and a dollar to cover cost of printing, because they were printed by outside publishing houses. Since then, not a penny has ever been asked for for any publications. There have been over 135,000 Kingdom halls built and hundreds of Bethel houses built, all without asking a dime from anybody. So, it seems your information is flawed. It comes from apostates paid to say what they say. If you want accurate knowledge about anything, you should go directly to the source, and apparently, you haven’t done that.

  • Emery

    Again you claim that Jehovah’s Earthly organization, begun by His son Jesus, is a cult. Don’t you realize that God views that as you poking Him in the eye with a sharp stick? You are denegrading God and His son in saying what you are saying. To claim you are Christian is like claiming day is night, that black is white. You must have accurate knowledge of God and His word to be Christian, and to follow that word. It’s quite clear you don’t, on any of those counts. That is sad, as I stated earlier. Trolling? You’re nuts I think. This began by making one comment. The attacks on me began after that first comment. I am merely answering each attack as they come. You must be a Democrat and a liberal. Remember, being involved in politics is a sin.

    • Dan (required)

      I’m calling satan’s organization a cult. So, you think I’m a Democrat but aren’t involved in politics. You just accused and me and joined me. Real smart Emery!

  • Emery

    The beliefs the Witnesses have are the scriptures. Nothing more, nothing less. Understanding of various points have been clarified and refined over the years, as research deems appropriate, and as the faithful and discreet slave deems appropriate.

    • I’m calling BS on this one emery.

    • living witness

      A true Christian is spiritually born anew (again) God breathed, and sealed in that same Spirit that raised Christ Jesus (GOD IN THE FLESH) from the dead. He bore the wrath of God concerning the sins of the world upon His body – His soul was without sin because Jesus was The Word made flesh. Incorruptible seed – The Last Adam that became a life giving spirit.

      1Peter 1:23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.
      ***************Others Have, Now it’s your turn*************
      Now Emery – Please, Go tell the truth at the Temple of Doom, get the boot, repent of your corruption and evil ways – God will forgive you. Jesus was the Lamb of God and as He declared from the Resurrection and Ascension on High “He is the Lord and Risen Christ!

    • Brenda Murphy

      Emery,
      You are right–you are a slave.
      I am not–
      Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

  • Dan (required)

    Absolutely loved it Mark. They can’t stand it when you shine a light on how their (Organization) began. They scurry around like roaches trying to find cover! At least the Mormons don’t go begging door to door It’s a shame Emery! Repent!

  • Emery

    It’s a shame you don’t know the scriptures. Jesus said to imitate him. He said that we are God’s witnesses (speaking to the Christian congregation) and Jesus went from town to town, door to door preaching his Father’s message to all. Therefore, in obeying those commands, you say shame on me? Shame on you for concentrating on some scriptures and ignoring others. Shame on you for not being of the true Faith that Jesus taught. Shame on you for not obeying God. It is however your choice, as Jesus’ death allows us. But don’t complain about your reward for those sins. Your only reward is your current life, as destruction during the final battle prevents resurrection of those destroyed at that time, you included. Matthew 24:14 says that the good news of the Kingdom will be preached throughout the Earth and then the end will come. Do you think that by ignoring that, you can forestall God’s judgement and prophecies? That makes you nuts if you think that.

    • Dan (required)

      Jesus went from town to town door to door(Laughing) are you drunk.
      That’s not in the bible Miss Emery!

  • Emery

    1 Thessalonians 4:16
    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

  • Dan (required)

    YOU’VE BEEN OUTED EMERY

  • Emery

    I know the entire history of the Witnesses, from the first studies, to the International Bible Students Association, to Jehovah’s Witnesses many decades later. It’s you who don’t know much about the congregation that Jesus began in his ministries prior to Nisan 14 of 33 C.E.

  • Emery

    It’s in every Bible in print in English today. He also taught the Disciples to do the same, usually by two’s for safety. Sometimes in larger groups. It’s you who aren’t aware of what the scriptures say.

  • According to this critique on the NWT, it is based on
    preconceived heretical beliefs, and a dishonest 
    and inconsistent translation. It is most definitely not
    a valid version of Gods word. So if you have one ?
    Throw it in the nearest garbage bin, that includes
    you Emery. I told you I do my own research ! 
    I stand by the KJV, the word of God. Not perverted
    translations.

    Answer: The New World Translation (NWT) is defined by the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ parent organization (the Watchtower Society) as “a translation of the Holy Scriptures made directly from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek into modern-day English by a committee of anointed witnesses of Jehovah.” The NWT is the anonymous work of the “New World Bible Translation Committee.” Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that the anonymity is in place so that the credit for the work will go to God. Of course, this has the added benefit of keeping the translators from any accountability for their errors and prevents real scholars from checking their academic credentials.

    The New World Translation is unique in one thing – it is the first intentional, systematic effort at producing a complete version of the Bible that is edited and revised for the specific purpose of agreeing with a group’s doctrine. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society realized that their beliefs contradicted Scripture. So, rather than conforming their beliefs to Scripture, they altered Scripture to agree with their beliefs. The “New World Bible Translation Committee” went through the Bible and changed any Scripture that did not agree with Jehovah’s Witness theology. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that, as new editions of the New World Translation were published, additional changes were made to the biblical text. As biblical Christians continued to point out Scriptures that clearly argue for the deity of Christ (for example), the Watchtower Society would publish new editions of the New World Translation with those Scriptures changed. Here are some of the more prominent examples of intentional revisions:

    The New World Translation renders the Greek term word staurós (“cross”) as “torture stake” because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe that Jesus was crucified on a cross. The New World Translation does not translate the Greek words sheol, hades, gehenna, and tartarus as “hell” because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in hell. The NWT gives the translation “presence” instead of “coming” for the Greek word parousia because Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ has already returned in the early 1900s. In Colossians 1:16, the NWT inserts the word “other” despite its being completely absent from the original Greek text. It does this to give the view that “all other things” were created by Christ, instead of what the text says, “all things were created by Christ.” This is to go along with their belief that Christ is a created being, which they believe because they deny the Trinity.

    The most well-known of all the New World Translation perversions is John 1:1. The original Greek text reads, “the Word was God.” The NWT renders it as “the word was a god.” This is not a matter of correct translation, but of reading one’s preconceived theology into the text, rather than allowing the text to speak for itself. There is no indefinite article in Greek (in English, “a” or “an”), so any use of an indefinite article in English must be added by the translator. This is grammatically acceptable, so long as it does not change the meaning of the text.

    There is a good reason why theos has no definite article in John 1:1 and why the New World Translation rendering is in error. There are three general rules we need to understand to see why.

    1. In Greek, word order does not determine word usage like it does in English. In English, a sentence is structured according to word order: Subject – Verb – Object. Thus, “Harry called the dog” is not equivalent to “the dog called Harry.” But in Greek, a word’s function is determined by the case ending found attached to the word’s root. There are two case endings for the root theo: one is -s (theos), the other is -n (theon). The -s ending normally identifies a noun as being the subject of a sentence, while the -n ending normally identifies a noun as the direct object.

    2. When a noun functions as a predicate nominative (in English, a noun that follows a being verb such as “is”), its case ending must match the noun’s case that it renames, so that the reader will know which noun it is defining. Therefore, theo must take the -s ending because it is renaming logos. Therefore, John 1:1 transliterates to “kai theos en ho logos.” Is theos the subject, or is logos? Both have the -s ending. The answer is found in the next rule.

    3. In cases where two nouns appear, and both take the same case ending, the author will often add the definite article to the word that is the subject in order to avoid confusion. John put the definite article on logos (“the Word”) instead of on theos. So, logos is the subject, and theos is the predicate nominative. In English, this results in John 1:1 being read as “and the Word was God” (instead of “and God was the word”).

    The most revealing evidence of the Watchtower’s bias is their inconsistent translation technique. Throughout the Gospel of John, the Greek word theon occurs without a definite article. The New World Translation renders none of these as “a god.” Just three verses after John 1:1, the New World Translation translates another case of theos without the indefinite article as “God.” Even more inconsistent, in John 1:18, the NWT translates the same term as both “God” and “god” in the very same sentence.

    The Watchtower, therefore, has no hard textual grounds for their translation—only their own theological bias. While New World Translation defenders might succeed in showing that John 1:1 can be translated as they have done, they cannot show that it is the proper translation. Nor can they explain the fact that that the NWT does not translate the same Greek phrases elsewhere in the Gospel of John the same way. It is only the pre-conceived heretical rejection of the deity of Christ that forces the Watchtower Society to inconsistently translate the Greek text, thus allowing their error to gain some semblance of legitimacy in the minds of those ignorant of the facts.

    It is only the Watchtower’s pre-conceived heretical beliefs that are behind the dishonest and inconsistent translation that is the New World Translation. The New World Translation is most definitely not a valid version of God’s Word. There are minor differences among all the major English translations of the Bible. No English translation is perfect. However, while other Bible translators make minor mistakes in the rendering of the Hebrew and Greek text into English, the NWT intentionally changes the rendering of the text to conform to Jehovah’s Witness theology. The New World Translation is a perversion, not a version, of the Bible.

    Recommended Resources: Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Updated and Expanded by Ron Rhodes.

    We highly recommend Witnesses for Jesus for more information.

    Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/New-World-Translation.html#ixzz32IIC3mBr

  • living witness

    Mathew 12:32 “Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

    We live in a dispensation of Grace, in which 2Corinthians 3:15-18
    makes the Administration of and In The Holy Spirit (Mind of Christ)

    To speak against the Set Administrator The Holy Spirit is imponderable.

    This exactly what the Roman Catholic Church leadership to The Pope accomplish with every Mass, and doctrines of devils. Impostors!

    The Greek word AGAINST:kata
    kat-ah’
    A primary particle; (preposition) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive, dative or accusative] with which it is joined): – about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to, touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [dai-] ly, down, every, (+ far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from . . . to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), . . . by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+ your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.

  • Dan (required)

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/180779#.U3vv5fldX07

    Take a look at this people. I’ve heard news the pope was going to do this but now it seems for sure he will!

  • Kathy

    Jesus Christ Almighty GOD says in Matthew 23:5,9 “And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.” This is why God warns us in Revelations 17: 9 that the “MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABMOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH” is the one that sits on the seven mountains,in verse 9. Christians don’t sit on the seven mountains just the Catholic Church, and Pope Francis!!!

    • mark

      Vatican hill is not one of the 7 hills of Rome. It is on a separate hill all together.

    • Donna

      Kathy,

      What about what St. Paul said? Did he not know what Jesus commanded?

      “Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.” 1 Corinthians 4:15

      “But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has served with me in the work of the gospel.” Philippians 2:22

      “Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged.” Colossians 3:21

      “For you know that we dealt with each of you as a father deals with his own children” 1 Thessalonians 2:20

      “To Timothy my true son in the faith” 1 Timothy 1:2

      “To Titus, my true son in our common faith” Titus 1:4

      From the beginning, there were spiritual fathers. Paul refers to himself as one. If Paul did so, it must be OK.

      • Mark

        And Jesus telling the parable in Luke 16:24 said “And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame.”

  • Dan (required)

    http://www.wnd.com/2014/05/new-identity-for-mystery-babylon-of-bible/

    @ Kathy I just found this today Kathy. The mystery may not be in Rome after all

  • Stephen

    The catholic church has never been Christian. Nor is he the first pope to make such a statement.

    • Donna

      Protestants don’t realize it, but they are reacting the same way the teachers of the law reacted when they saw a man (Jesus) forgiving sins. They were offended, just as Protestants are offended that priests (men) forgive sins. As they say, who can forgive sins but God? But just as you noted, the crowds glorified God “who had given such authority to men.” Jesus gave this authority – the authority to forgive sins – to his apostles. The apostles in turn give this authority to their successors.

      Mark, you have defended Catholic doctrine using scriptures. I wonder how Protestants explain these verses, especially John 20:21-23? In my experience, Protestants can not explain these verses – they ignore them – to their peril.

      • Brenda Murphy

        Joh 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
        Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
        Joh 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

        Jesus breathed on these apostles the Holy Ghost, that is why they had the right to preach and for men to come to them.
        Did Jesus breathe the Holy Ghost on the pope and the ‘fathers’ of your church—-no! God can’t breathe the Spirit on idol worshippers!

        • Donna

          If you study the Acts of the Apostles, you will see that the apostles conferred the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands. We can read how they chose another apostle after Judas committed suicide. Jesus was not physically present to breathe on Matthias, yet we know that he was spirit-filled. The apostles also selected other leaders as the Church expanded.

          So, has Jesus breathed on your church leaders? Who gave your pastor the authority to teach and preach? Where does his (or her?) authority come from?

          • Brenda Murphy

            Ruach has been trying to tell you about Pentacost, when the Holy Ghost fell on those there. Jesus sent the Spirit, or Comforter to whomever would accept it. He is indwelling those that invite Him in.
            God does not force anything on you.

            Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
            Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
            Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
            Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

            The Holy spirit still works today, as God does not change, it is the Holy Spirit that convicts the soul of their sins.
            He will heal you, comfort you, be there when you need Him. It is wonderful to be walking in the spirit.
            It is God’s precious gift to us, if we will have it.

          • Donna

            Brenda,

            What you have written sounds nice, but it doesn’t square with scriptures.

            Please note that on the day of Pentecost, Jesus’s apostles and disciples (The Church)were gathered together in obedience to Jesus’s instructions to pray for the Holy Spirit. After receiving the Holy Spirit, we learn that 3000 “were added to their number”. What were they added to? They were added to the Church. They were added by believing and being baptized.

            In Acts 8 (14-17), we read that it was necessary to send 2 apostles – John and Peter – to the believers in Samaria. Although they were believers and were baptized, they did not have the Holy Spirit.

            “When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.”

            This is quite different from what you wrote.

            You stated elsewhere that you are a Pentecostal. Your church is only 100 years old. It is not rooted in the apostolic church – it can’t be. Anyone can look up the founder of your church. It’s Charles Parham. So maybe you don’t believe that Jesus founded the RCC, but you can’t name the founder, since the Church is 2000 years old.

            Here is a link you might find helpful: http://www.bible.ca/t-why-I-left-pentecostalism.htm

            Good luck! There is plenty of scriptures and information here for anyone who is truly seeking the truth. I, personally, spent 15 years searching for truth. I didn’t care which church it was, as long as I could be certain it taught the truth. When it comes to the Pentecostal Church and all these other non-denominational churches, history is completely silent. Only the Catholic Church has endured, and its history is well-documented. Any truth-seeking person can go online or any bookstore and read what the early Church believed, because we still have their writings. And guess what? They may not have called themselves “Catholic” until 92 A.D., but their writings testify to a thoroughly Catholic culture. Unfortunately, some people are so prejudiced against the Catholic Church that they are not willing to admit this. Secondly, most people do not take the trouble to investigate these writings because in their arrogance, they tell themselves that there is no way they could possibly be mistaken. I tell you, Brenda, and Ruach, and the writers of this blog – you are seriously mistaken about the Catholic Church. I will keep you all in my prayers, that the Holy Spirit will enlighten you.

          • Donna

            Correction: The name Catholic Church first appears in writing in 110. A.D., and not in 92 AD.

          • Brenda Murphy

            Donna,
            I don’t care when a ‘church’ was established.
            All I care about is the truth of Jesus Christ.
            My foundation is built on Christ, not some ‘church’.
            You are free to believe what you want. I’m not here to persuade you that my denomination is the right one.
            I am here to combat the lies of satan.
            Worshipping idols is against God. Period.
            It is Bible, and it is truth.
            I don’t pray to Mary, I pray to God in the name of Jesus.
            I don’t pray with a rosary. I don’t have to.The Spirit within me sends the prayers up. I don’t have idols to bow down to. I bow to Christ, only.
            You are free to believe whatever you want.
            I choose to believe God.

        • Ruach

          Dear sister Brenda Murphy,

          Your gentle patience is refreshing! … and I wanted you to know that.

          I must soon stop posting … maybe even today… maybe even this post.

          You just replied:

          “Emery,
          Thank you for letting us use the King James Bible to refute your Jehovah’s Witness FALSE doctrine. It was much appreciated.
          The Lord does work in mysterious ways.”

          That is so true !!!

          The Holy Spirit woke me up (again) last night about 3 a.m. (the 4th watch) and you were on my mind… couldn’t shake it! … and couldn’t go back to sleep either.

          (This is what happens sometimes when one has been fasting and praying for three days a week)

          I know that will sound crazy to some, but that’s ok.

          I posted this article (linked below) and wondered if you had read it.

          http://www.reformation.org/simon_peter_versus_simon_magus.html

          It is lengthy … but is full of “meat”.

          It sheds a wonderful light and makes the TRUTH of the Bible MUCH MORE CLEAR and understandable!

          It focuses on the two Simons of Acts 8.

          The “two Simons” (0ne righteous and one wicked) of Acts 8 is just the tip of the iceberg of a “dual” theme that runs through the Scriptures.

          There are two Enochs.(0ne righteous and one wicked)

          There are two Lamech’s.(0ne righteous and one wicked)

          There are the 12 Tribes of Israel.
          And the 12 Princes of Ishmael.

          They have the same father – Abraham.
          But one group is from the promise of the Almighty and the other is not.

          There are two “shaloms”.(0ne righteous and one wicked)

          There are two shepherds.(0ne righteous and one wicked)

          There are two “marks” in the forehead. (0ne righteous and one wicked)

          At the last supper:

          The Savior … having the Spirit of the Almighty in Him.

          And Judas … having the spirit of Satan in him.

          (Luke 22:3… Then entered Satan into Judas…)

          Though there are many who had been/were possessed by demons …Judas is the ONLY person that the Bible says that Satan himself(!) entered into.

          The Savior is from the Tribe of JUDAH.
          Judah in the OT translates to Judas in the NT… therefore Judas’ name was JUDAH!

          The Savior died on Passover.
          So did Judas.

          Then …

          The Holy Spirit returns and creates the TRUE Church.

          Did Satan’s spirit return and create a FALSE church?

          Enter …

          The two Simon’s of Acts 8 …
          One wicked … one Righteous!

          And then there are two on White horses in Revelation.

          One wicked (ch.6)…

          and ONE Righteous! (ch.19)

          Why the duality?

          Because Satan parallels, and therefore counterfeits, the Almighty! … in order to “deceive the whole world”.

          True Church = True Christ
          False Church = False Christ (second def. of antichrist)

          To understand it more clearly one must fully understand the “future implications” of Gen. 3:15 when the Almighty “declared war” on Satan and promised that someone would be born of a woman/virgin and would put an end to him.

          Satan set out to do two things:

          1) Save his neck by preventing the Savior from being born.

          Obviously he failed … OT is full of stories of Satan trying to destroy Israel …no Israel – no Savior.

          2) He set out to take as many to hell with him as possible … through deception!

          At Babylon, Satan set up his false religious system that would counterfeit/parallel the TRUE religion of the future.

          His front man, Nimrod, was worshipped as a god.
          He was married to Semirimis who was known as “the Virgin”.

          The sun-god Nimrod was murdered/died and it was said that he ascended into the sun.

          His body was cut in pieces and scattered.
          Semirimis found them all except the penis … so she had one made of stone … it’s called an obelisk.

          After his death Semirimis became pregnant and she claimed that she was impregnated by Nimrod through the rays of the sun with the obelisk involved somehow .

          This would make her child a “miracle” birth … and that her child would be the “savior of the world”… and he would be Nimrod reborn.

          The name of the child was Tammuz and his birthday was celebrated on Dec 25.

          Dec. 21 is the winter solstice and has the shortest daylight
          period of the year.

          Babylonians said that this was when the sun “died”.

          Three days later (How long was the True Savior in the tomb)on Dec. 25 the daylight time starts to increase and because of this the Babylonians said that on this day the sun-god was “born/re-born”.

          (Keep in mind that “Nimrod and the sun were considered as one since he had “ascended into it”.)

          This is why on “Christ mass” (Dec.25) Santa and the FALSE/COUNTERFEIT baby savior SYMBOLICALLY show up at the same time …it’s Nimrod re-born as Tammuz.

          Nicklaus is the Greek name for Nimrod.

          Hence, Saint Nicklaus.

          When the Babylonians scattered, some ended up in Egypt.
          The Egyptian religion was Babylonian and Nimrod, Semirimis and Tammuz had new names because of the new languages dished out at the Tower of Babel:

          Nimrod = Osiris
          Semirimis = Isis
          Tammuz = Horus

          The Egyptians used a dome, and obelisk, and a five-pointed figure to depict Nimrod/Tammuz birth-rebirth.

          Go here and see it:
          http://www.mobypicture.com/user/Cosmic_Starr/view/12462638

          We know that the obelisk represents Nimrod’s penis.
          The dome represents the womb of Semirimis.
          And the pentagram (5 point) represents the birth of Tammuz.

          Now, go to a map of the Vatican and see the obelisk (penis) standing in front of the dome (womb) and in line with them is a 5-pointed building … all in line to the rising sun!!!

          The 5-point building is called the “Castle of ANGELS”.
          Satan is an angel!

          Much of Rome and the Vatican is layed out to certain star formations.

          Nothing comes out of the RCC without the popes approval.

          In 2008, on the subject of aliens:

          Top Vatican Astronomer Guy Consolmagno stated how contemporary societies may soon “look to The Aliens to be the Saviours of humankind.”

          Vatican’s top astronomer Guy Consolmago writes: “Perhaps it’s not so far-fetched to see the Second Person of the Trinity, the Word, Who was present “In the beginning” (John 1: l), coming to lay down His life and take it up again (John 10: 18) not only as the Son of Man but also as a Child of other races?”

          Alien savior?
          They’ve spoken a lot about it.

          And there’s more … MUCH MORE !

          The same layout is in Washington D.C. too !

          There are 3 VERY POWERFUL cities that are totally unique … but I’ve got things to do.

          • Brenda Murphy

            Thank you,
            I believe it is a gift God gave me, as I have had to have a lot of it, lately. It doesn’t come easy, mind you.
            If you would like to exchange e-mails, that would be nice.
            I consider you a dear brother. May God bless you.

          • Red Blood

            To Ruach

            Wow !

            I am almost speechless. I really don’t know what to say except that I want to know more.
            I have never heard anything like that before.
            Where did you learn this from?
            I read this comment and the link that you put in it and checked it out in the Bible and you are right about the duality thing.

            I couldn’t find the 2 shaloms though. Who are they?
            And please comment on the 2 shepherds also.
            And clear up for me about the 2 marks in the forehead to.

            I know that the catholics put a mark on there forehead for some reason and I have always wondered about that because the Bible teaches us that those who take a mark on their forehead will not enter Heaven.

            I always knew there was something wrong with the catholics and you have really helped me understand why.

            I watch the tv show Ancient Aliens and have always found it very interesting. But what I don’t like is that in every episode they always get around to saying that the God of the Bible is an alien.

            And it really hit home for me when you posted the quotes of the catholic astronomer about aliens being the “saviours of mankind”.

            And the 3 unique cities you mentioned, what is the third city and is it layed out to star formations too?

            I’ve got lots of questions and looking forward to your reply.

            Thank you,
            RB

          • Brenda Murphy

            @ Red Blood

            The two marks that Ruach was talking about, I believe are:

            This mark is for the 12 tribes of Israel, the ones that are sealed after the great tribulation, so that God will not destroy them, when He sends His wrath upon the earth.

            Eze 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
            Eze 9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
            Eze 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

            Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
            Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
            Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
            Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
            Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
            Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
            Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

          • Brenda Murphy

            That mark above was for the 12 tribes, so God wouldn’t pour out His wrath on them.

            This next mark, is the mark of the beast, the one that people will take for satan:

            Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
            Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
            Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
            Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
            Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

          • Brenda Murphy

            As for the two shepherds:

            Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
            Joh 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
            Joh 10:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
            Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

          • Ruach

            @Red Blood
            @Brenda Murphy

            I had hoped that I was finished with this site, but I guess not.

            No offense to either of you!

            I TRULY don’t mind sharing … even enjoy it.

            It’s just that I am so busy and this takes time… besides, I hate to write … the more I write the more I think, and the more I think the more I write.

            I’ve been told by more than one that I should write a book, but,… I don’t think so,… I’d never finish!

            I have to hurry, so expect mistakes to happen because I can’t take the time to be thorough, and exact, by looking up every detail.

            There are those that will take pot-shots at it, but that’s ok.

            I’m gonna skip the two marks at this time and get to the two Shepherds and that will, at least, help better understand the marks for now… hopefully.

            Some (fast) foundation…

            In the “duality” of the Bible the “wicked” shows up first.

            All my life I’ve heard, “Jesus could come back at any time!”.

            WRONG!

            Bible states that there are some things that have to happen FIRST.

            Can’t list them all, but,…

            Keep in mind that the rider on the white horse of Rev. 6 shows up first.

            He is the antichrist, deceiving the world, and he is imitating the TRUE SAVIOR on the white horse of Rev. 19 !

            [Pastors are ignorant of this or are just being deceitful!

            Remember … we were warned of “sheep” in wolves clothing!

            MANY preachers are Freemasons!]

            AntiChrist has a bow in his hand…to make war.

            The TRUE Savior has HIS WORD (sword) in HIS mouth and will crush the antichrist-Babylon system with it that rules the world even today. Daniel confirms this.

            Moving on …

            Occult means “secretive”.

            I’ve spent a lot of time studying the occult and their secret language of SYMBOLS.

            Nimrod began with the symbol of the sun and the serpent to rep. his master Satan… and there are MANY more symbols today!

            It’s part of imitating the Almighty because HE uses symbology throughout the Bible.

            I would sugjest Codex Magica by Texxe Marrs (?) and Occult Symbols and Their Meaning by Dr. Cathy Burns who was named the “Who’s Who” of what she does… jut a couple.

            Rev. has 404 verses and 278 of them have prophetic symbology. And all can be found, and their meanings, elsewhere in the Bible, sometimes literally word for word or in context.

            ALL false religions are traced to Babylon, even witchcraft. These were the FIRST religions and are wicked!

            Men like Job, Noah, Moses … didn’t have a religion…they had a PERSONAL relationship with the Almighty.

            Quick note:
            The third city is London… specifically the “Square Mile” in the middle of it that has a “winged serpent” statue at it’s entrance gate… no time to elaborate.

            -The Vatican
            with it’s “sun-sex magic” layout to Sirius.

            -Washington D.C.
            with it’s “sun-sex magic” layout to Sirius.

            -The Square Mile with it’s “winged serpent”.

            3 aspects of the New World Order are:

            -One world religion – Vatican (Pope uniting all religions)

            -One world currency – London’s Square Mile (home base of Federal Reserve and others)

            -Some one to enforce it all – Washington D.C.

            No time to elaborate.

            With that in mind…
            moving on fast…

            The Two Shepherds

            The TRUE SHEPHERD said:

            Joh 10:11

            I am THE GOOD SHEPHERD: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

            Joh 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
            Joh 10:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

            Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, AND AM KNOWN OF MINE.

            Two shepherds are mentioned in those verses.

            One a TRUE Shepherd and one NOT!

            The Savior was speaking to the disciples who were JEWS… and they had been raised on the OT and knew EXACTLY who the “hireling – bad shepherd ” was that the Savior was referencing.

            Let’s get a better look at that “bad” shepherd.

            To the OT …

            Speaking of the antichrist who will present himself as a savior …the FALSE shepherd!

            Zech. 11 16-17

            For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall NOT visit those that be cut off, NEITHER shall seek the young one, NOR heal that that is broken, NOR feed that that standeth still: BUT he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.

            Woe to the IDOL shepherd that LEAVETH the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

            Throughout the Bible the Almighty does good with HIs “mighty RIGHT arm”.

            The right represents the side of GOOD!

            Even today when someone does what is good and noble we say that he done what was “RIGHT”, … hence, RIGHTeous.

            Notice that the false shepherd’s “RIGHT” eye is utterly darkened.

            That’s because there is NO GOOD in him!

            He is evil and wicked.

            Now, take a dollar bill and look at the pyramid (SYMBOL of the Tower of Babel) and the all-seeing EYE on top of it.

            Stay with me …

            Is it a RIGHT eye or a left?

            I HAVE looked CLOSELY … it is a LEFT eye!

            (googled it -great close-up here:

            http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:All_seeing_eye.jpg)

            Because the right eye has been “darkened.”

            It’ the “eye of Horus” … the Egyptian name for Tammuz… the fake savior of Babylon!

            It’s a SYMBOLIC rep. of the FALSE shepherd. that was put on by the occultic Rothchild’s, Warburg’s, etc., who make up the Federal Reserve based in the occultic Square Mile of London…we know who the winged serpent there represents.

            LOT’s of history on Rothchild’s, etc.

            top of pyramid:
            Annuit Coeptis – “he” approves of…

            below pyramid:
            Novus Ordo Seclorum – New order of the ages – New World Order!

            Seclorum (latin) is where we get “world”.

            Hitler was the first politician to publically declare a NWO.

            President Bush (1) was the second to do so in his famous NWO speech to Congress.

            Now, google (in images):

            “All-seeing eye catholic church”

            Take your time … click on them so you can get a better look.

            SYMBOLS …HAVE MEANING!

            There’s LOTS and LOTS MORE than this.

            I hope I made it understandable I was in a hurry.

            Next time I’ll talk about the mark that the catholics put on their forehead.

            Will be busy the next few days.

    • Mark

      Just a thought, sit in the front.

      And may God bless you

    • Donna

      Totally false. Barbarians killed more people in the Dark Ages. It was the RCC that managed to preserve the Bible for centuries, despite all the ransacking and pillaging, etc.

      • Mark

        Not to mention governments in the last century, just add up the causalities from:
        Hitler,
        Mao,
        Stalin,
        Chiang Kai-shek (China: 1928-49)
        Enver Pasha (Turkey: 1913-18)
        Hirohito (Japan: 1926-89)
        Hirota Koki (Japan: 1936-37)
        Ho Chi Minh (North Vietnam: 1945-69)
        Kim Il Sung (North Korea: 1948-94)
        Lenin (USSR: 1917-24)
        Leopold II (Belgium: 1865-1909)
        Nicholas II (Russia: 1894-1917)
        Pol Pot (Cambodia: 1975-79)
        Saddam Hussein (Iraq: 1969- )
        Tojo Hideki (Japan: 1941-44)
        Wilhelm II (Germany: 1888-1918)
        Yahya Khan (Pakistan: 1969-71)
        Idi Amin (Uganda: 1971-80)
        Ion Antonescu (Romania: 1940-44)
        Ataturk (Turkey: 1920-38)
        Francisco Franco (Spain: 1939-75)
        Gheoghe Gheorghiu-Dej (Romania: 1945-65)
        Yakubu Gowon (Nigeria: 1966-76)
        Radovan Karadzic (Serbian Bosnia: 1991-96)
        Babrac Kemal (Afghanistan: 1979-87)
        Le Duan (Vietnam: 1976-86)
        Haile Mengistu (Ethiopia: 1974-91)
        Benito Mussolini (Italy: 1922-43)
        Ante Pavelic (Croatia: 1941-45)
        Antonio de Salazar (Portugal: 1932-68)
        Hadji Suharto (Indonesia: 1967-97)
        Tito (Yugoslavia: 1945-80)

  • Emery

    Once again, you are not going to the source. You go to critics from Christendom. You do not compare the NWT yourself, you rely on others to do your work for you. I can find thousands of apostate critics on any organization, religion, or faith. That doesn’t make them correct just because they publish an article. It doesn’t make their claims correct either. To get an opinion on anything requires facts and comparisons. You obviously haven’t done any of that. As I stated earlier, that’s lazy and dishonest, and quite incorrect. Your contentions are incorrect also. Jesus started the Christian congregation and the faith that all witnesses adhere to, and you criticize that. You are then criticizing Jesus and the faith he taught. Yet, you don’t realize the impact on yourself that that behavior has. Deep down you probably do, but aren’t even honest enough with yourself to acknowledge it. Your choice. Your judgement from God Almighty. Don’t complain when it comes your way. Criticizing those who obey God and Jesus, and for not believing as YOU do is haughty, dishonest, and about as far from Christian as one can be, yet you call yourselves Christian. That’s dishonest. It is us who will have to watch as you all are destroyed in the final battle. That won’t be very pleasant to see, but God promised that it is going to happen, so I can’t really complain about it. So you keep on complaining to your heart’s content. After a thousand or two thousand years, I will have forgotten your insolence and disobedience to God, and so will He.

    • That’s because the source, the JW are a synagogue 
      of Satan. Who willingly twist Scritures to suit their 
      own heretic views, habitually lie to defend their own
      heretic views which are not biblical, such as their
      disbelief in the Trinity, God the Father God the Son 
      and God the Holy Spirit. Sourcing information is work 
      idiot, I agree with the source, so no use duplicating it 
      in my own writing, they are far more skilled than I .
      That you dishonestly twist scripture to promote your
      heretic beliefs ! Whether before the late 50 s or after
      with your NWT. Your cult is of the equivalent of 
      Scientology .

    • Donna

      Yes, Peter ended up in Rome.

      He went there when he heard that Simon Magus was there, perverting the Gospel. Peter was eventually crucified under Emperor Nero. These facts are recorded in Eusebius’ Ecclesiastical History, written in the 4th Century. It is better to read ancient texts instead of anti-Catholic, poorly researched books.

  • Emery

    You are so clueless,it’s almost funny.

    • living witness

      Emery is Jesus, The Word, God manifest in the Flesh?

      Be Bold, be a truthful JW here

  • Emery

    Being “born again” according to the scriptures means the old personality, the worldly one, is dead, and the new one, the Godly one, is put on as a new person. Your born again religion explains your actions and your behavior.

    • living witness

      Good luck with that! Man without a new spirit, the cleansed in the blood spirit of Life can’t operate in The True Faith.
      The old man will just continue to thrive in the lust of deceit.
      Even as a religious person, having a form of godliness but denying the power there-in. Without out the Spirit of Christ, the soul is lost.

  • Emery

    Talking to you is a lot like talking to a petulent early teenager with a bad attitude.

    • living witness

      Emery is Jesus, The Word, God manifest in the Flesh?

      Be Bold, be a truthful JW here

      • living witness

        Emery has not responded – Why, because a good truthful JW will never be able to agree with the Spirit of Truth.
        JW’s don’t believe Jesus is The Word manifest in the Flesh: GOD!

        End of the day, without Savior. Lost in Sin, condemned by self.
        God’s grace refussed; exchanged an eternal gift of Life, for a eternal gift of deception from the father of lies.
        Sorry for you Emery, When the Temperature gets to exact you start in with the Scripture-less taunts without a comment in the response box – just an open taunt. The price you will pay has a never end VALUE attached to it – lord Satan will share your pain.
        No Christian want’s that for any soul. True Love says Repent! Turn to Jesus the Lord and Savior for remission of your sin.

  • Emery

    That’s correct. You are not. Even though you claim to be a Christian. Christians are God’s slaves. Non Christians are not. They are Satan’s slaves.

    • Brenda Murphy

      And Emery, I once was brainwashed, like you…..at an early age, I was taught a different doctrine, not JW, though.
      God has since opened my eyes to the true gospel of Christ.
      These other so-called religions, give the true Christians a bad name.
      That is the devil in the deceiving.
      I can assure you, I am not of satan, but of the one true God, Christ Jesus.
      Jesus is Lord. He will always be.
      Those who worship God, must worship Him in spirit and in truth. It is required of us.
      You do have an infirmity…don’t you?

  • Emery

    None of those God has commanded to be His witnesses ever lies. Only the children of the father of the lie would ever lie. Your father is Satan, my father is Jehovah God. God Almighty. The sovereign of the universe. The creator of the universe and everything in it, including you. Satan is the father of the lie.

    • Mark

      Get a mirror.
      You state you have studied ALL religions
      You state that the Pope has been convicted by courts for all kinds of things
      You state nonsense about the Pope participating in blood sacrifices
      You claim a history you can not document, but insist is true
      You claim the Catholic Church didn’t exist for at least 400 years after the birth of Jesus
      and you claim everyone else is a slave of Satan.
      And for people pointing out your claims you call them lazy, stupid, etc.

      What exactly are you a witness to?

      • LOL MARK ! I Can’t stop laughing !

  • Emery

    Jehovah is the One God Almighty. Jesus is His only begotten SON. How can the son of God create himself? Jesus being God is not scriptural, therefore, your statement makes you a child of Satan, not God. If Jesus is God, to whom did Jesus pray? Himself? If Jesus is God, to whom did he say “why have you forsaken me?” If Jesus is God, who sent him to Earth, himself? He said he was sent by his father to do his Father’s will. Did he send himself to do his own will? False religion really has a hold on you. You should abandon all religions as I did decades ago. You should really adhere to the one true Faith that Jesus taught.

    • living witness

      Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
      Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
      Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
      Joh 1:4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
      Joh 1:5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
      Now has the Watch Tower changed the scripture Yes: (was a god…)

      • Praise our Lord Jesus, creator of heaven and earth.

        Thank you Living Waters.

      • Brenda Murphy

        Thank you, living.

    • living witness

      WITH THE TONGUE WE BLESS OR CURSE – WE BRING REFRESHING OR FIRE
      The same way we create situations / We speak words (reasoning)

      Reasoning such as yours are an affront to the Doctrine of Grace.

      Hope you get it settles by steering your vessel away from the flames

      Clue: Say Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh, It’s the only Way God can recover you.

      Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way And the unrighteous man his thoughts; And let him return to the LORD, And He will have compassion on him, And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon.
      Isa 55:8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD.
      Isa 55:9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.
      Isa 55:10 “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, And do not return there without watering the earth And making it bear and sprout, And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
      Isa 55:11 So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.

      DEBATE IS OVER FOR ME – As for me and my house, we shall confess the Lord – Jesus is the Christ – The Word Alive in His resurrection glory / and glorified body that was once as you and me.
      (God in the Flesh) _ Choose Life!

    • Mark

      Emery, lets look in John …

      John 1:1, 14

      1
      In the beginning* was the Word,
      and the Word was with God,
      and the Word was God.

      14 And the Word became flesh*
      and made his dwelling among us,
      and we saw his glory,
      the glory as of the Father’s only Son,
      full of grace and truth.

      So in John we see that the word existed from the beginning and is God and that the word became flesh. The word (God) become flesh is Jesus (not St. Michael) coming to us and expressing that full image of God. It is clear. You ask “How can the son of God create himself?”, the answer is 2 fold, he didn’t, he existed from the beginning, and what is it you thing God can’t do (out side of evil by definition)?

      Further on John 14:6-11 states:
      6
      Jesus said to him, “I am the way and the truth* and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
      7
      If you know me, then you will also know my Father.* From now on you do know him and have seen him.”
      8
      Philip said to him, “Master, show us the Father,* and that will be enough for us.”
      9
      Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
      10
      Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing his works.
      11
      Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves.

      As for your other questions they are neatly answered by the Trinity. I understand you are not open to this truth, but it also explains why in Genesis 1:26 God refers to himself in the plural:

      “26 God said, ‘Let us make man in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves, and let them be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven, the cattle, all the wild animals and all the creatures that creep along the ground.'”

      We have one God in 3 persons, this is why Jesus can refer to the other 2 persons. Jesus (the word) became flesh which further re-enforces scripture that we are made in the image and likeness of God, since Jesus is God in human flesh.

      So Emery the real question is…
      Have I (Jesus) been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Emery?

      May God bless you on your Journey.

  • Emery

    You spout the teachings of Socrates. A Greek. He first promulgated the notion of the pagan trilogy in Christendom. Christendom adopted it to attract pagans to the church, along with the cross to attract pagans, and the 12 day holiday of Saturna, a harvest festival that you call Christmas. Jesus wasn’t born in the winter. He was born in fall while it was still warm outside.

    • 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
      19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

      WOW EMERY !..I didn’t know that Jesus subscribed
      to Socrates !…….Maybe Jesus recieved his monthly
      subscription by pidgeon all the way from Greece !

      • Brenda Murphy

        lol

  • Emery

    No, they didn’t. The original Aramaic and Hebrew texts say what is in the NWT. Your Bible is an interpretation, not a translation for the most part. Very inaccurate. Try reading the original texts some time, or does the possibility of learning something scare you?

  • Emery

    I have chosen life. You have chosen destruction. Sad.

  • Pingback: Persist For Christ | Persist For Christ News()

  • Brenda Murphy

    So, Emery,
    What have you accomplished here? Please do tell me?

    Do you believe that Christ died for your sins?
    Do you believe that he is coming back again?
    He will. He is coming for his own.

    We do have an immortal soul.
    That is why Christ died, that all who believe in Him, would not go to the hell that is prepared for the devil and his angels, and for those that know not God.

    If we did not have an immortal soul, as you say, what would be the purpose of Christ dying? You do contradict everything that you seem to believe.
    So are you an atheist?

    • Excellent point Brenda !

      Our God and Saviour is the answer !

      Titus 3:4-7
      4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
      5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
      6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
      7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

      The perfect harmony of God.

    • Emery

      Ezekiel 18:4

      King James Version (KJV)

      4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

      You ask a lot of questions that are none of your business. If you want to ask questions, use the Bible to answer them. Not some religion’s answers, but the Bible’s. You are extremely haughty and self righteous and narcicistic. You think you are infallible. You are not. You aren’t even correct half of the time. Try learning the things you are talking about before you talk about them. You may experience more success at whatever you are after by being so annoying.

      • Mark

        What did the world do for the 1st 400 years after Jesus when there was no bible? It was a religion that gave us the bible. It is because that religion (as scripture says) is the pillar and bulwark of the truth that we can trust the cannon of scripture. And lo and behold the Jws had nothing to do with settling the cannon of scripture. Not a single thing. It wasn’t the pillar of truth and it still isn’t.

  • Emery

    You simply are not doing your research. You read a scripture and assume that you are getting the sense of it, well you’re not. Doesn’t say Jesus was God Almighty. Many in the scriptures are called a god. Many metaphors also exist within the scriptures. Without comparing ALL other scriptures that use the same word in that way must be compared. All of them. The context is also quite important as to the meaning intended when using a word or words. Faulty research renders faulty understanding. If you’re trying to change my thinking on the matter, you haven’t got a chance of ever doing that. I’ve spent 38 or so years studying the scriptures cover to cover, word for word, and comparing the original texts to all versions of English language Bibles from all of Christendom. Very few come close to the original. Several are extremely far from the original. Some seem to be outright fiction.

  • Emery

    So, who gave him the power, himself? Absurd. You use Holy Ghost. Well, the Greek word used there is pneumos. It translates into English as spirit or breath, not ghost. KJV is one of the most inaccurate translation I’ve ever used. It doesn’t compare well with the original texts at all. It uses hell for sheol and hades, the Hebrew and Greek words for grave. It uses cross for stauros, the Greek word for pole or stake. It promulgates false teachings from the early 400’s C.E, as does the Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible. There are a couple more that are way off as those two are. Using them prevents one from getting the sense of a lot of scriptures. You’d be better off going to a more accurate translation. There are many available, even online if you don’t want to buy them.

    • living witness

      Emery – the fallen soul is also of the invisible creation: It is composed of the mind, the will, and emotions and the Daily main feature is how it reflex’s outwardly through the sense realm.

      THERE ARE TWO SOURCES OF IRRIGATION FOR THE SOUL; BOTH ARE NOT OF SELF

      #1 CHOICE OF THE WORLDLY IS: Ephesians 2:1-3 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
      Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

      #2 – The Choice for the soul circumcised in the heart.
      The Spirit of Christ, I.E. Holy Spirit for the oneness desired.
      Rom 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
      But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

  • Emery

    The original text says hades, not hell. Hades translates into grave, not hell.

  • living witness

    EMERY HAS NOT BEEN WITH GOD EXCEPT THROUGH THE SPIRIT OF CONVICTION.

    Ephesians 4:14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;….

    Ephesians 4:17-19 So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind,being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart;and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness.

  • Emery

    Yes, and you should avoid the trickery of men who created all these religions of Christendom. Satan is misleading the entire inhabited Earth. Christendom and pagandom are two of his tools. You have fallen victim to those tools it seems.

  • Emery

    If you’re attempting to teach, don’t. Your understanding of scripture is not something I am interested in. I teach many classes per week on discerning the meaning of scriptures to honest hearted individuals. The reference material I have I am sure by far exceeds what you have access to. The 38 years of intensive study by far exceeds yours also. Comparing each scripture to each other scripture on it’s topic is time consuming and very enlightening. You should give it a try sometime.

    • living witness

      When You say unto “This Mountain”

      Pride – Ego – All Varieties will bow their Knee, & Confess with their very own tongue: Jesus Christ is Lord — Of All.

  • living witness

    The Conclusion

  • Emery

    In the scriptures, mountains and hills refer to governments, or to God’s government that will be ruled by Jesus post Armageddon. What are YOU talking abouT? I am not getting your point.

  • Emery

    It’s interesting to note that the original texts in Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek never used any words that can be translated into hell, saint, or cross.

    • Mark

      What is interesting is how you select just meanings that support your position and no other, declare what you want it to be as exclusive and then claim everything else is wrong. There are dialects of some of these languages. There are synonyms within languages etc. As an example when you say Greek what dialect of Greek are you using? Attic Greek? Koine Greek? Hellenistic Greek? what one(s)? Do you know there are/were more than one? If so how do you apply them? The meanings differ quite a bit for some of the terms. Or is it all just Greek to you?

      • Emery

        Why should I do your research for you? Get and dread copies of the original texts of the scriptures for yourself. You are not one of my students, you are someone who twists the interpreted instead of translated scriptures for your own ends. You twist them to say whatever you want, while refusing to understand what they originally, and really mean. Well it’s your choice to choose God or Satan. It’s sad that you chose Satan.

        • Mark

          I didn’t ask you to do any research for me did I? I asked you what dialects you use and when and why. I am interested in your level of scholarship and understanding, and so far they seem to be lacking.

          You don’t seem to check the validity of your sources, you denigrate and condemn people just for disagreeing with you.

          Non answers aplenty. Actual useful content 0.

  • living witness

    Wow
    It’s a natural reaction to “Drop The Hot Potato”

  • Emery

    If you’re that interested, get copies of them and do your own research. It’s not difficult.

  • Psalm 45:6-7
    6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
    7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    Phil 3:13-14
    13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
    14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

    Heb 1:8-9
    8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    These scriptures clearly show the deity of 
    Jesus Christ,….he is God ! John 1:1-5

    Of course emery will claim these verses
    a type o. Only the JW can translate the 
    bible accurately ! All reference to Jesus
    being God in the bible must be down graded !
    To fit the JW heretic beliefs. He does not
    know that he sounds like a Pharisee, only
    lord emery can translate the bible for us !
    I wonder how many translations the thief
    on the cross got through before he asked 
    Jesus to remember him in paradise ?…
    .NOT ONE !

    Luke 23:42-43
    42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
    43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

    Through faith he was saved ! If he did not 
    believe, he would not of asked ! Your not
    saved because you claim to know bible
    translations or knowledge of the bible,
    your saved by the blood of Jesus Christ.

    Thank God for the KJV, you can’t touch it !
    Must be killing you ! The gates of hell shall
    not prevail.

    lord emery, I’m not interested in your BS
    commentaries ! Save it for your class of
    heretics !

    • Emery

      You are the furthest thing from Christian, and from an imitator of Jesus I’ve run into so far. You lie, denegrate anyone who doesn’t think your thoughts are God’s, and are so Narcicisstic you could be Narcissus himself. How can you stand going to sleep at night. When you’re asleep, you can’t admire your intellect that you are convinced is equal to our creator! It must be very painful. What do you do in the car? Stare at your reflection in the rear view mirror?

      • LOL emery, is there any scripture in there ? You 
        belong to a satanic cult ! That has manipulated
        scripture to your own end ok ! Did you think that
        I would thank you ? Narcissistic ? Well just re- 
        member that you do not agree with anyone on 
        this blog ! Holding self opinion ( not biblical ) 
        above everyone here ! That is narcissistic !
        By the way, I ride a sports bike, have been
        for the last 39 yrs, you can’t see yourself 
        in the mirrors emery ! only rear traffic, fact !
         You should get on your knees and pray to God 
        to forgive your holier than thou attitude, while 
        exchanging your self righteous comments and
        judgements, as I’ve said, you are not christian,
        your part of a cult, who think they are christian.

        • Brenda Murphy

          Mike,

          Emery is getting very frustrated, as you can tell.
          They have their JW bible which is trash.
          The King James Version will stand–it is written upon our hearts. The Word of God will stand–it will always be in us, and work thru us! Even unto the end, Praise be the name of the Lord!

  • Emery

    Anyone can accurately translate the scriptures, they just don’t, if they don’t fit the existing intrpretations. Investigate the council that created the Bible you use. Investigate why they did to it what they did. If you look at most translations, they are different from KJV and Douay-Rheims. They more accurately represent the original texts. Being biased in translating means biased translations. I am not biased, except toward God and His word that He left for us.

    As far as your thoroughly un-Christian comments and behavior, if it makes you feel good, go for it. Your comments are quite childish though. However, remember, the scriptures say that behaving as you do means your only reward is right now. Your life as it is. No resurrection. No eternal life in a paradise Earth. It is your choice and no one else’s. Just be sure it’s the choice you want to make.

    • Their you go playing god again lord emery ! Your
      judgement means 0 I told you I’m not interested
      in your BS commentaries, your not Christian, your
      a heretic, Titus 3:10 look that up ! By the way,
      you can also look up, Eph 1:13-14 , Eph 2:8-9
      1 John 5:9-12

  • Emery

    Don’t revile the man, it’s not nice nor is it Christian behavior. And he probably meant that the Catholic Church is an anathema, because it certainly is that.

  • living witness

    GOLGOTHA IS THE ROCK UPON WHICH JESUS BUILT HIS CHURCH.

    GOD CREATED, PLACED, AND STOOD ABOVE ALL MANKIND THERE.

    THE LAMB SLAIN FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH.

    THIS ROCK UPON WHICH I STAND.

  • Emery

    Sounds you need a time out from your extremely childish behavior. Playing God? Maybe I’m wrong, maybe it’s not childish, maybe it’s insanity. Only your take on things could ever be accurate, and only YOUR idea of who’s a Christian is the valid one. Pretty un-humble behavior. Extremely un-Christian behavior when compared to Jesus’ example he said we need to imitate. So I guess it’s Jesus and his Father you disagree with in reality, not the scriptures I’ve quoted.

    • As I said before, your not Christian ! You are a heretic,
      even worse, your a teacher of them ! You seem to
      think that your commonteries are valid and correct.
      Like your a judge at a bench deciphering people’s
      comments and ruling them valid or not, then telling
      them what they must do, I’m not interested in your
      comments, is that to much for your ego or somthing ?
      Are you used to people falling all over you ? This
      isn’t your class room where you tell people what to
      do and what to believe, and if they don’t agree with
      you, it’s judgement time, you certainly have an ego
      on you ! You seem to get off talking about transla-
      tions

      • Emery

        Shame you’re such a moron and a drone of Babylon the Great. Your thoughts come from your church and not your own mind. God gave you faculties of thought and you reject them. Weird.

        • Mark

          More Calumny from the holier than thou Jw. Some “witness” you are.

        • Emery, you have your head so far up Satan’s 
          crack that you wear him for a condom ! As with 
          the JW cult. Your grooming people for hell !

  • living witness

    • That was a good song !

  • Emery

    Pope Francis, as have been ALL popes, is a liar and not God’s servant, but Satan’s.

    • Donna

      Jeff,

      Why don’t you read the writings of the earliest Christians? You can easily read what the leaders of the Church wrote in the First Century. Go to NewAdvent.org, and you can read online the letters that bishops wrote to their congregations. These are authentic letters – written by the faithful shepherds to their flock. Very eye-opening.

  • living witness

    A House divided can not stand:

    When Christ was sent in the form of human flesh (JESUS) He, The Word took on a body which was sown in the natural, and was transformed into the glorified body which true believers await.

    He gave up His heavenly estate, and descended and became as a man 4U&me.
    Accomplished the Fathers will, and was accepted as His beloved!
    He will never have any other body – Last Adam, First Born among the brethren – Raised in Glory!

    Mathew 12:25 And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand.

  • living witness

    When a Born Again Christian partakes in the Table of Remembrance;

    The bread represents His Body – who we are, Alive in the Earth.
    Quickened by the Same spirit that raised Christ Jesus from the dead.
    The wine represents the life of the natural flesh organ, His Body!
    Poured out one time on the Cross @ Calvary for the remission of sin. That crimson flow that washes white as snow.
    Jesus, Salvation in Him Alone
    We pour out this life as a drink offering to the nations of the world.
    We are Representatives in the earth that eat and drink in the Gospel Message carried into all the World in a Dispensation of Time: Grace is the mission of conveyance through the Body of Jesus, by the Lord the Holy Spirit of Truth – Yes there is a cost: Deny Self, and Lift Up Jesus. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin.

    • Emery

      When you partake in the emblems, you are sinning. The emblems, the body and blood of Christ were meant for the Annointed sons of God, beginning with the disciples of Christ. Their total number is 144,000 and they are co-heirs, co-rulers with Christ post Armageddon. The entire Bible was written to the annointed, for them to use to teach the world. It was not written to the world. In fact the memorial of Christ’s death is the ONLY command in the scriptures to memorialize ANYTHING AT ALL.

      • living witness

        You sound Like Goliath taunting/mocking Israel.

        You know Emery, King David was a Victor, as for Goliath, how foolish he turned out to be.

        Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
        Gal 6:8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

        Since the battle belongs to the Lord, and you reject the witness of many. Since you profess 38 years of wisdom; the only question of accountability left is: Just how foolish will you feel?

        LIVING WITNESS

  • Emery

    No, you’re wrong as usual. What I am is a true Christian, I am NOT part of Christendom (false Christianity) as you are. All of these so called Christian religions all over the world (and there are over 1000 of them) do not adhere to the faith that Jesus taught. That’s why they are sects of Christianity, and not the original Christianity. Sects or divisions of an original is not the original, it is based on it, but with changes. Since you are not aware of these facts, nor do you want to be aware of them, you cannot make your claim about me. You don’t know the difference at all. I have never “judged” people in these discussions nor have I “told” them what to do. I have used scripture to show the real meaning of them, and I have made suggestions. Your childish approach to them tells me that you have a very fragile ego and are about as mature as a petulent 12 year old. That’s a shame since you have access to discussion groups. You haven’t a clue as to respectful behavior, or honest discourse. Much less Christian standards of behavior. You can find those standards in one book of the Bible; Proverbs.

    • Yeah, blah, blah ,blah, all this while you teach heresies.

    • Brenda Murphy

      Emery,

      You have not used much scripture, mostly garbage from your mouth.
      Those people that you teach, you are feeding them garbage–they will be sick, just like you…..you need to come to the knowledge of the truth…and soon. Time is running out!

  • living witness

    Jehovah’s Witnesses did no exist before 1914!!
    Woops!

  • Emery

    Before the legal entity “Jehovah’s Witnesses” was registered, they were called “International Bible Students Association”. The congregation, however, began while Jesus was alive.

    • living witness

      Oh I know – “Judas Witnesses” Imagine that.

  • Emery

    The name change for the legal entity changed in 1931. 1914 was the beginning of World War One. You’re confused as to dates.

  • Dan (required)

    Here’s a question for you. If your a true christian and not part of Christendom. Then why hasn’t G-d blessed you over Christendom ?
    Surely since G-d favors your cult over Christendom he would bless you many times over.
    The truth is your insignificant because man is your G-d. Just like Scientology has it’s creator; you have yours and G-d does not know you!

    Why are you still so insignificant if G-d is blessing you!
    In fact Scientology at the very least has Celebrity.
    Very sad!

  • Emery

    The Catholic church is not
    christian. It only pretends to be based on Christianity. It is actually Satanic rituals, cloaked in Christianity. The cross was introduced to attract more pagans, so that the collection baskets would contain more money. It’s all about the money. The Catholic church, besides being a tool for Satan to mislead the entire inhabited Earth, is all about money and power and political capital. The Popes have all performed newborn baby sacrifices after having ritualistic sex with them. They then disembowel them and all in attendance drink the blood. The rituals usually include around 12 people, mostly priests. It has gone on for centuries. I have an associate who was called twice to the same New Jersey rectory to clear the main sewer line. Both times he found chopped up newborn baby parts clogging the pipe. He told them to NEVER call his company again. In Canada, they are still digging up chopped up newborn Native Canadian babies around the Catholic and Anglican Residential schools for Native Indians there. Thousands of them so far have been dug up. Children who were incarcerated there, and are now in their 70’s and 80’s have testified to witnessing these rituals and murders, and two of them testified that the pope was the main character in the rituals. Disgusting.

    • Mark

      “The Pope was the main character in the rituals” in Canada? Do you actually think or really look up anything at all? When was the Pope in Canada at those sites? You will believe anything rather than face the truth.

      You claim be a part of the true faith but then refuse any evidence. What about the early Fathers such as:
      St. Polycarp
      St. Iraneaus
      St. Justin Martyr
      St. Ambrose
      St. Ignatius of Antioch
      St. Cyril of Jerusalem
      St. Athanasius
      St. Clement of Rome
      St. Augustine
      St. Jerome
      Etc.

      They learned the faith and passed it on at the time of the early Church. I’m sure you dismiss or ignore all of it, assuming you are even allowed to look at it (Doesn’t the JWs disallow reading anything contrary to their beliefs?). You cherry pick what little there is that could support you, twist the rest and claim victory over nothing.

      St. Ignatius of Antioch write in his Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [~A.D. 107 – 110] “Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church”

      Any Bishops distributing the Eucharist in the JWs? Ordaining any Priests as taught by the early Church? I would venture not. How about apostolic succession? It was taught by the early Church (I’m sure you’ll ignore all evidence or claim its a mistranslated text. If you say these early writings are not in the bible then remember nothing the Watch Tower publishes is either….

      Apostolic Succession as taught by the early Church (part of the original faith, the Catholic faith):

      “Through Our Lord Jesus Christ our Apostles knew that there would be strife over the office of episcopacy. Accordingly, since they had obtained a perfect foreknowledge of this, they appointed those men already mentioned. And they afterwards gave instructions that when those men would fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry. Therefore, we are of the opinion that those appointed by the Apostles, or afterwards by other acclaimed men, with the consent of the whole church, and who have blamelessly served the flock of Christ in a humble, peaceable, and disinterested spirit, and have for a long time possessed the good opinion of all, cannot be justly dismissed from the ministry.” St. Clement Of Rome, “The Epistle Of Clement To The Corinthians,” c. 96 A.D.

      “When we refer them to that tradition which originates from the Apostles, which is preserved by means of the succession of presbyters in the churches, they object to Tradition, saying that they themselves are wiser not merely than the presbyters, but than even the Apostles.” St. Irenaeus, “Against All Heresies,” c. 180 A.D.

      “Therefore, it is within the power of all in every church who may wish to see the Truth to examine clearly the Tradition of the Apostles manifested throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to reckon up those who were instituted bishops in the churches by the Apostles, and the succession of these men to our own times…. For if the Apostles had known hidden mysteries…they would have delivered them especially to those to whom they were also committing the churches themselves. For they were desirous that these men should be very perfect and blameless in all things, whom also they were leaving behind as their successors, delivering up their own place of government to these men.” St. Irenaeus, “Against All Heresies,” c. 180 A.D.

      “In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical Tradition from the Apostles, and the preaching of the Truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same life-giving faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the Apostles until now, and handed down in truth.” St. Irenaeus, “Against All Heresies,” c. 180 A.D.

      “It is necessary to obey the presbyters who are in the Church – those who, as I have shown, possess the succession from the Apostles. For those presbyters, together with the succession of the bishops, have received the certain gift of truth, according to the good pleasure of the Father. But we should hold in suspicion others who depart from the primitive succession and assemble themselves together in any place whatsoever. For they are either heretics or perverse minds, or else they are schismatics who are puffed up and self-pleasing…. Therefore, it behooves us to keep aloof from all such persons and to adhere to those who, as I have already observed, hold the doctrine of the Apostles.” St. Irenaeus, “Against All Heresies,” c. 180 A.D.

      “It behooves us to learn the Truth from those who possess that succession of the Church which is from the Apostles, and among whom exists that which is sound and blameless in conduct, as well as that which is unadulterated and incorrupt in speech….” St. Irenaeus, “Against All Heresies,” c. 180 A.D.

      “No one will refute these heretics except the Holy Spirit bequeathed unto the Church, which the Apostles – having received in the first instance – have transmitted to those who have rightly believed. But we, as being their successors and as participators in this grace, high priesthood, and office of teaching – as well as being reputed guardians of the Church – must not be found deficient in vigilance.” St. Hippolytus, “Refutation Of All Heresies,” c. 225 A.D.

      “He cannot be reckoned as a bishop who succeeds no one. For he has despised the evangelical and Apostolic traditions, springing from himself. For he who has not been ordained in the Church can neither have nor hold to the Church in any way…. How can he be esteemed a pastor, who succeeds to no one, but begins from himself? For the true shepherd remains and presides over the Church of God by successive ordination. Therefore, the other one becomes a stranger and a profane person, an enemy of the Lord’s peace.” St. Cyprian Of Carthage, “Letter To Magnus,” c. 250 A.D.

      “The words of our Lord Jesus Christ are plain that He sent His Apostles and gave to them alone the power that had been given to Him by His Father. And we have succeeded to them, governing the Lord’s Church with the same power.” Seventh Council Of Carthage, c. 256 A.D.

    • Mark

      Here is some of what the original early Church said about the Catholic Church:

      “Wherever the bishop appears, let the congregation be there also. Just as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is manifest, therefore, that we should look upon the bishop even as we would look upon the Lord Himself, standing, as he does, before the Lord. As therefore the Lord did nothing without the Father, being united to Him, neither by Himself nor by the apostles, so neither do ye anything without the bishop and presbyters. Be ye subject to the bishop as to the Lord, for ‘he watches for your souls, as one that shall give account to God.’ In like manner, let all reverence the deacons as an appointment of Jesus Christ, and the bishop as Jesus Christ, who is the Son of the Father, and the presbyters as the Sanhedrin of God, and assembly of the apostles. Apart from these, there is no Church. See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. He who honors the bishop has been honored by God; he who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil. Give ye heed to the bishop, that God also may give heed to you. Be ye subject to the bishop, to the presbyters, and to the deacons.” St. Ignatius of Antioch, “Epistle to the Smyrnaeans,” c. 105 A.D.

      “The church of God that sojourns at Smyrna, to the church of God sojourning in Philomelium – and to all of the congregations of the holy and Catholic Church in every place.” St. Polycarp, “The Martyrdom of St. Polycarp,” c. 135 A.D.

      “Our Lord Jesus Christ is the Savior of our souls, the Governor of our bodies, and the Shepherd of the Catholic Church throughout the world.” St. Polycarp, “The Martyrdom Of St. Polycarp,” c. 135 A.D.

      “The house of God is one, and there can be no salvation to anyone except in the church.” St. Cyprian of Carthage, “Letter 61,” c. 250 A.D.

      “There is no salvation outside of the church.” St. Cyprian of Carthage, “Letter 72,” c. 250 A.D.

      “The Catholic church is one.” St. Victorinus, “Against Arius,” c. 280 A.D.

      “It is called Catholic then because it extends over all the world, from one end of the Earth to the other; and because it teaches universally and completely one end and all the doctrines which ought to come to men’s knowledge, concerning things both visible and invisible, heavenly and earthly; and because it brings into subjection to godliness and the whole race of mankind, governors and governed, learned and unlearned; and because it universally treats and heals the whole class of sins, which are committed by soul and body, and possesses in itself every form of virtue which is named, both in deeds and words, and in every kind of spiritual gifts.” St. Cyril of Jerusalem, “Catechetical Lectures,” c. 350 A.D.

      “Let us note that the very tradition, teaching, and faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning, which the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers. On this was the Church founded; and if anyone departs from this, he neither is nor any longer ought to be called a Christian.” St. Athanasius, “Four Letters to Serapion of Thmuisc,” c. 360 A.D.

      • Ruach

        I’ll say it again …

        The ORIGINAL early Church started on Pentecost and none of the above mentioned were there!

        Check the dates.

        The ORIGINAL early church Christians WERE NOT CATHOLIC !!

        It’s obvious that the ones mentioned in the above comment were catholic.

        Had they once been followers of the True Church ?

        It’s very possible.

        Now consider what John wrote in 1 John 2: 19:

        “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”

        Here, I believe the Almighty is giving us another hint, along with Acts 8, that a FALSE church is “in the works”.

        Clarke’s Commentary on 1 John 2:19

        They went out from us – These HERETICS had belonged to our Christian assemblies, they professed Christianity, and do so still; but we apostles did not commission them to preach to you, for they have disgraced the Divine doctrine with the most pernicious opinions; they have given up or explained away its most essential principles; they have mingled the rest with heathenish rites and Jewish glosses. While, therefore, we acknowledge that they once belonged to us, we assert that they are not of us. They are not Christians; we abhor their conduct and their creed. We never sent them to teach.

        You can’t get the truth from a catholic…

        It’s like asking a thief if he is a thief!

        • Brenda Murphy

          Here we have a Catholic and Jehovah’s Witness, going at it. How ironic?
          Both think that they are the only true church. lol
          Perfect examples of cults.
          You don’t join, then you are not God’s, is what they all say!
          Such lies of satan.
          satan’s messengers are transformed as angels of light.
          That’s about it.

          • Emery

            Thinking JW are a cult is like thinking you are intelligent. It’s clear you aren’t. The Witnesses are what God said they are:

            King James Version
            Isaiah 43:10
            Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

            Isaiah 43:12
            I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, that I am God.

            They are the ONLY organization of people on Earth doing what is foretold in this prophetic scripture:

            Matthew 24:14

            King James Version (KJV)

            14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

            The Witnesses are the same congregation that Jesus began up until his death on Nisan 14 of 33 C.E. The legal entity known as Jehovah’s Witnesses is how they function in this world of legalities. They are not a sect of Christianity. They are Christian.

            In light of your statement, this makes you look pretty stupid.

          • Mark

            Here you go again, your organization picked a title “Witness’, find a favorable use of the word witness and claim it refers to you as a title, yet it seems to be just the common use of the word. I note you didn’t even bother to capitalize its use as if were a title in the text. Of course it isn’t that at all but that doesn’t help your shaky story.

        • Mark

          Yes I know, the dates show how the teachings stayed consistent.

          You state “The ORIGINAL early church Christians WERE NOT CATHOLIC !!” without ANY proof. 1 John 2: 19 doesn’t name any group, you just want the answer you espouse, that certainly doesn’t make it anything close to true or factual.

          What Church other than the Catholic teaches Apostolic succession as taught in the bible? After Judas they appointed a new apostle to replace him. Lets see Acts 1:15-26


          15
          During those days Peter stood up in the midst of the brothers (there was a group of about one hundred and twenty persons in the one place). He said,
          16
          “My brothers, the scripture had to be fulfilled which the holy Spirit spoke beforehand through the mouth of David, concerning Judas, who was the guide for those who arrested Jesus.
          17
          He was numbered among us and was allotted a share in this ministry.
          18
          He bought a parcel of land with the wages of his iniquity, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle, and all his insides spilled out.
          19
          This became known to everyone who lived in Jerusalem, so that the parcel of land was called in their language ‘Akeldama,’ that is, Field of Blood.
          20
          For it is written in the Book of Psalms:
          ‘Let his encampment become desolate,
          and may no one dwell in it.’
          And:
          ‘May another take his office.’
          21
          Therefore, it is necessary that one of the men who accompanied us the whole time the Lord Jesus came and went among us,
          22
          beginning from the baptism of John until the day on which he was taken up from us, become with us a witness to his resurrection.”
          23
          So they proposed two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also known as Justus, and Matthias.
          24
          Then they prayed, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen
          25
          to take the place in this apostolic ministry from which Judas turned away to go to his own place.”
          26
          Then they gave lots to them, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was counted with the eleven apostles.”

          “[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also” (2 Tim. 2:2).

          Again we see the need to pass the faith down in an unbroken chain through time.

          Clement I said in 80 AD (only 47 years since the Crucifixion)

          “Through countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. . . . Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry” (Letter to the Corinthians 42:4–5, 44:1–3 [A.D. 80]).

          This line of succession is unbroken to this day in the Catholic Church since we have followed the scriptural principle (‘May another take his office.’) from the beginning and is well documented by the early Fathers.

          • Ruach

            Simon Peter versus Simon the Sorcerer or St. Peter Meets the Competition!!

            ——————————————————————————–

            This is a great expose by the late Dr. E.L. Martin. It documents the true history of the Samaritans, the meaning of the word “peter” in the ancient world and the “church” that was established at Rome by Simon the Sorcerer.

            Acts 8:

            “But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the LORD for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.” (Acts 8:9-24).

            ——————————————————————————–

            Right from the very beginning, Satan had his counterfeit “messiah” operating right in the true Messiah’s backyard. His name was Simon Magus or Simon the Sorcerer and this man, and not Simon Peter the Apostle, went on to found the Universal Roman “church.” His career was the history of Roman Catholicism in miniature. For a long time he bewitched the people with his false miracles. Since the year 800 A.D., Rome has bewitched the world with her false miracles of transubstantiation.

            Simon believed and was baptized. Outwardly he was a Christian but his belief was only superficial and he was still a pagan at heart. He coveted the apostolic office and saw the opportunity of using Christianity to make money — a business corporation masquerading as the church of Christ!!

            From Simon Magus we get the word simony which means to buy a religious office with money.

            After his encounter with St. Peter, this magician went to Rome and by tricks and false miracles established a “Christian church” in that city. This man can truly be considered as the first of the age long dynasty of Popes —many coming in Christ’s name and deceiving many (Matt. 25:5).

            As in the case of Patrick and Palladius, the arch-fiend Satan took advantage of the similarities of the names to supplant one with the other. We can be sure that Palladius took a big sack of gold with him when he set out for Hibernia. History does not record the encounter between the Roman and the Briton but we can be sure that St. Patrick told him the same thing that St. Peter told Simon Magus:

            “To hell with you and your money . . . for trying to buy the gift of God…….”

            ——————————————————————————–

            SIMON MAGUS
            by Ernest L. Martin

            What were the origins of Catholic-Babylonian Christianity? What was Simon’s religion before he met Peter? Where did that religion originate? Read in this series of articles the detailed and documented account of Simon Magus and his great COUNTERFEIT CHRISTIANITY!

            THE FALSE religious system began very early — almost with Pentecost in 31 A.D. Even in the earliest of Paul’s epistles, he informs us that “the mystery of iniquity DOTH ALREADY WORK” (II Thess. 2:7). Paul wrote this in 50 or 51 A.D. The plot to supplant the Truth had already begun. In the later epistles of Paul and in those of the other Apostles, we find it gaining considerable momentum. However, even though the Apostles discuss the diabolical system which was arising, THEY NOWHERE MENTION HOW IT STARTED. They had no need in mentioning its beginning — that had already been done!

            The book of Acts is the KEY to the understanding of Christian beginnings. Not only does it show the commencement of the TRUE Church, but it equally reveals the origins of the False Church masquerading as Christianity. Indeed, you would think it odd if the book of Acts did not discuss this vital subject.

            The Book of Acts — the Key

            First, let us recall two points of necessary understanding.

            1) The book of Acts was written by Luke about 62 A.D.– some 31 years after the True Church began. Acts recalls ALL events which affected, in a major way, the True Church. It especially tells us about the beginnings of matters relating to Church history.
            2) Acts does NOT record every single event relative to the Church, important as one might think them to be.

            For example, Luke doesn’t mention a single thing about the activities of ten of the original twelve Apostles of Christ. Yet are we to assume that they did nothing important in the history of the Church? Absolutely NOT! They must have done many mighty works. But we can see from this omission that Luke recorded ONLY THOSE EVENTS WHICH WERE ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for God’s Church of the future to know.

            Notice that Luke’s geography leads him towards the Northwest and West of Palestine. He discusses Church history in Asia Minor, Greece and ROME. He wanted to leave us with the truth of what was going on in the West and North because the prophecies showed the false system arising in these localities.

            All other activities of God’s Church — all about the other ten Apostles, etc. — fall into relative unimportance because the trouble wasn’t going to come from Palestine itself. It was to come from ROME and adjacent areas. It is no wonder that Luke spares no pains to tell us the truth of what was really going on in these critical areas, and that is the reason Acts concerns itself primarily with Paul. These are well-known principles that help us understand the overall viewpoint of Acts.

            With the foregoing in mind, read the incident recorded by Luke, of the first encounter of God’s Apostles with a heretic. This encounter was not with an ordinary run-of-the-mill individual, but with one of the greatest men in the East at that time — Simon the Magus!

            The reason Luke describes the intentions of this man so thoroughly is the profound effect this man, and his followers, had on God’s Church in Asia Minor, Greece, and ESPECIALLY ROME. Actually, this man by 62 A.D., (when Luke composed the book of Acts) had caused the True Church so much trouble that Luke had to show the people that he was NOT, as he claimed to be, a part of the Christian Church.

            All scholars realize that Luke tells about Simon’s beginning because of his later notoriety and danger to the Church.

            In this regard, notice the comment of Hasting’s Dictionary of the Apostolic Church, Vol. 2, p. 496: “It seems beyond question that Luke KNEW THE REPUTATION which Simon acquired, and that he regarded the subsequent history of Simon as the natural result of what occurred in the beginning of his connection with the Christians.”

            If we assume that Luke recorded this encounter of the Apostles with Simon Magus simply to show that “simony” was wrong, we miss the point completely. There is a score of places in other parts of the Bible to show the error of buying ecclesiastical gifts.

            Luke was exposing SIMON MAGUS HIMSELF. This IS the important point!! Luke was clearly showing that Simon was NEVER a part of God’s Church, even though by 62 A.D., many people were being taught that Simon was truly a Christian — taught that he was the HEAD of the only TRUE Christians; the Apostle to the Gentiles!

            What Luke Tells Us About Simon Magus

            Notice the points Luke places clearly before us.
            1) Simon was a Samaritan, not a Jew — (Acts 8:9). Remember that the Bible tells us salvation was of the Jews — not of the Samaritans (John 4:22).
            2) Simon Magus greatly used demonic powers to do miracles and wonders (Acts 8:9).
            3) The whole population of Samaria (both small and great) gave heed to him (Verse 10). He was looked on as the greatest prophet — all Samaritans BELIEVED IN HIM!
            4) The Samaritans WORSHIPPED him as “the Great One” — a god. “This man is that power of God called Great [that is the Almighty]” (RSV. Verse 10). Imagine it! They called him god in the flesh!
            5) Luke is also careful to inform us that Simon had become firmly established in Samaria as “the Great One” and had practiced his powers “for a long time” (Verse 11).
            6) Luke wants us to understand that he nominally became a Christian (“Simon himself believed”) and was baptized — that is, he physically, outwardly “entered” the Christian Church (Verse 13).
            7) Simon even recognized that Christ’s power was greater than his but wanted to be associated with that great name (Verse 13).
            8) Simon, seeing the potential of the Christian religion waited until the authorities, Peter and John, came to Samaria and then offered to pay them money to OBTAIN AN APOSTLESHIP IN THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH (Verses 18-21).

            Simon Coveted Apostle’s Office

            Those who carelessly read this section of Scripture may get the mistaken notion that Simon wanted only to buy the Holy Spirit. Yes, he wanted that — but his main intention went far beyond. He had eyes on becoming an APOSTLE!

            Peter immediately perceived his intention and said “You have neither PART nor LOT in this matter” (Verse 21). The true Apostles had been chosen after Christ’s death to take PART in the apostleship by LOT (Acts 1:25, 26). Peter was telling Simon he couldn’t buy an APOSTLESHIP.

            Luke is showing that Simon wanted to be one of the APOSTLES — a top man in the Christian Church. He was after that office. After all Simon imagined himself to be fully qualified to be an APOSTLE, especially over the Samaritans since they already looked to him as the greatest religious leader of the age. However, Peter rebuked him sternly.

            9) Peter perceived that Simon was in the “gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity [lawlessness]” (Verse 23).

            NOTE: This verse has been misunderstood because the King James Version fails to give the full force of Peter’s accusation. This verse when understood in the manner Peter intended, is one of the most important of the whole chapter. IT IS A PROPHECY! Peter knew the mind of this man and what this man was to become. This is made plain by Sir William Ramsay in his Pictures of the Apostolic Church, p. 60. He says: “Peter rebuked him in strong and PROPHETIC TERMS. The PROPHECY is concealed in the ordinary translation: the Greek means ‘thou art FOR a gall of bitterness and a fetter of unrighteousness [lawlessness]’, i.e., a cause of bitterness and corruption to others.”

            This makes it plain. Peter was uttering a prophecy by the Holy Spirit. He was telling what this Simon was to become; Lange’s Commentary says: “Peter’s words, literally, mean: ‘I regard you as a man whose influence WILL BE like that of bitter gall [poison] and a bond of unrighteousness [lawlessness], or, as a man who has reached such a state’.” (Vol. 9, p. 148).

            Not only was Simon, in Peter’s time, a great antagonist to the Church, but he would be the adversary in the future.

            This prophecy is the KEY that opens to our understanding the ORIGINS of the heresies mentioned in the letters of the Apostles. Peter clearly knew Simon wouldn’t repent. Verse 22 shows that in the original.

            Gall of Bitterness Defined

            It is also interesting to note Peter’s statement that Simon was to become a “gall of bitterness.” People today may not realize the exact meaning of such a phrase, but no Jew in the First Century was in any doubt as to its meaning.

            It was a figure of speech adopted from the Old Testament which denoted going over to the idols and abominations of the heathen. Read Deuteronomy 29:16-18 and see how plainly this figure of speech is used. When the Apostle Peter applied to Simon Magus the phrase “gall of bitterness,” he meant that Simon would be the responsible party for the introduction of heathen beliefs and idols into Christianity. The prophecy takes on a new and important scope when we realize this real meaning of Peter’s prophecy.

            No wonder Jude later says, speaking about the very men who followed Simon Magus (including Simon himself): “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ORDAINED to this condemnation” (Verse 4). We can be confident that Peter recognized that Satan was going to use this Simon Magus as the GREAT PROTAGONIST OF FALSE CHRISTIANITY.

            The later history of Simon Magus shows that Peter’s prophecy came true in a most remarkable way.

            Simon Magus Unrepentant

            10) Even after Peter’s strong rebuke, Simon DID NOT REPENT! And Peter knew that he wouldn’t!

            Conclusion: This means that Simon thought he deserved to be an Apostle — if not the chief Apostle — in the Christian Church. He became baptized which, in a physical way, made him ostentatiously a “member.” It is important to remember that he DID NOT REPENT of his error. There is not the slightest hint that he gave up believing that he had divine right to be an Apostle.

            He deliberately continued in this error, with his later followers — calling himself “Christian”! It is because of the later deceptive activities of this would-be Apostle that Luke was compelled to show his ignominious beginning and to reveal what Peter prophesied about him.

            It is by identifying the real beginning of the great false church system with this Simon that opens up a whole new vista of understanding in regard to the counterfeit Christianity which began even in the infancy of the Church.

            What Did Simon and the Samaritans Believe?

            One of the most scholarly of early church historians was Harnack, who wrote an extensive seven-volume work titled The History of Dogma. This man is recognized as one of the top authorities in the world on this subject.

            He states: “Long before the appearance of Christianity, combinations of religion had taken place in Syria and Palestine, ESPECIALLY IN SAMARIA, insofar as the ASSYRIAN and BABYLONIAN religious philosophy . . . with its manifold interpretations, had penetrated as far as the eastern shore of the Mediterranean” (Vol. 1, pp. 243, 244).

            Notice he says the Babylonian religion had come ESPECIALLY TO SAMARIA! !

            And why not? The Samaritans were largely Babylonian by race. The Bible tells us in II Kings 17:24 that most of the Samaritans had been taken to Samaria from Babylon and adjacent areas. Later on, Ezra informs us that others who were mainly of Babylonian stock came to Samaria (Ezra 4:9-10). These people amalgamated their Babylonian religious beliefs with some of the teachings from the Old Testament. But they NEVER DEPARTED basically from their own Babylonian-Chaldean religious teachings.

            If anyone doubts that these Samaritans practiced outright paganism under the guise of YHVH worship, let him read the extraordinarily clear indictments recorded in the inspired Word of God (II Kings 17:24-41).

            A Brief History of the Samaritans

            There were originally five Babylonian tribes who had been transported to the area where Northern Israel once lived before Israel’s inglorious defeat and captivity by the Assyrians. When these five tribes moved INTO the vacant land of Samaria, they brought their Babylonian and Assyrian gods with them.

            After a short while in their new country, they were ravaged by lions. They interpreted this punishment as coming upon them because they failed to honor the god of the new land — not realizing that there is only One Great GOD, who is not confined to any one land. These Samaritans didn’t have sense enough to realize that the True God of the land had sent Israel into captivity because of their calf-worship and their introduction of Phoenician religion.

            They asked the Assyrian king to send back one of the priests of Israel to teach them the former religion in order that the plague of lions would be stayed.

            The Israelitish priest who was sent to them taught the religion of Northern Israel. Remember that the priests of Northern Israel were NOT Levites. At the time of Jeroboam, the true priests of God were forced to flee to Jerusalem and Judea (II Chron. 11:14). Jeroboam set up his own form of religion with the calves at Dan and Bethel (I Kings 12:28-30). He moved the Holy Days from the seventh to the eighth month. He made priests of the lowest of the people, those who were NOT of Levi (I Kings 12:31).

            All of these acts of Jeroboam were outright violations of God’s law. It was from the time of Jeroboam down to the time of Israel’s captivity, that the majority of Israel was NOT worshipping the True God at all! Jerusalem and God’s temple had been repudiated, and paganism had been introduced on a grand scale. When these transplanted Babylonians who were being afflicted by lions in Samaria asked for a priest of the former people — THEY GOT ONE! But that priest was one of the former calf-worshipping priests of the rebel Israelites. He was almost as pagan as the Babylonians themselves!

            This priest of Israel taught the Babylonians (now called Samaritans) to adopt the former worship of the Northern Israelites. The priest taught them to revere YHVH as the “God of the Land.” Thus, these Samaritans finally took upon themselves the NAME: The People of YHVH; but their religion was outright paganism — a mixture of Israelitish calf-worship and Babylonianism — just as Simon Magus later was eager to appropriate Christ’s NAME, but continue his pagan abominations!

            Notice what God says about the final condition of these Samaritans.

            “So these nations feared the Lord [calling themselves God’s people], AND served their graven images, both their children, and their children’s children: as did their fathers [the Babylonians], so do they unto this day” (II Kings 17:41).

            These people called themselves the worshippers of the True God, but were actually Babylonian idolaters.

            What Deities Did the Samaritans Worship?

            It will pay us to notice the gods and goddesses that these forefathers of Simon Magus brought with them to Samaria. The people from the City of Babylon adored SUCCOTH-BENOTH; the Cuthites: NERGAL; the Hamathites: ASHIMA; the Avites: NIBHAZ and TAR-TAK; the Sepharvites: ADRAM-MELECH and ANAM-MELECH.

            The first deity is SUCCOTH-BENOTH, a goddess. It was Semiramis in the form of Venus. Listen to Jones in his Proper Names of the O.T., p. 348. He says the name signifies “Tabernacles of daughters.” It means: “Chapels made of green boughs, which the men of Babylon, who had been transported into Samaria, erected in honor to Venus, and where their daughters were PROSTITUTED by the devotees of that abominable goddess. It was the custom of Babylon, the mother of harlots, and therefore HER SONS DID THE SAME THING IN SAMARIA.”

            What about the god NERGAL of Cuth? We are informed by McClintock and Strong’s Encyclopedia that the name signifies “the great man,” “the great hero” or “the god of the chase,” i.e., the Hunter. In other words, as the Encyclopedia further points out, he was a form of NIMROD. This Hunter-god was honored by the people of CUTH for Arabian tradition tells us that CUTH was the special city of NIMROD (vol. VI, p. 950).

            The next god was that of Hamath: ASHIMA. Jones shows us that he was the great pagan god of propitiation, i.e., the god who bore the guilt of his worshippers (p. 42). This god was the pagan REDEEMER — the OSIRIS of Egyptian fame or the dying NIMROD.

            The Avites worshipped NIBHAZ (masc. — the god of HADES) and TAR-TAK, “the mother of the gods”. This last-mentioned goddess was supposedly the mother of the Assyrian race, or, as Jones says, she was SEMIRAMIS (see p. 354).

            The fifth Babylonian tribe worshiped pre-eminently two gods. ADRAM-MELECH and ANAM-MELECH. The first was the “god of fire,” the Sun or the Phoenician Baal (Jones, p. 14); the second was “the god of the flocks” or the Greek HERMES, the Good Shepherd (p. 32).

            (It is self-evident that these gods and goddesses were the major Babylonian deities, and at the same time, the very gods and goddesses which the Roman Catholic Church deifies today as Christ, Mary, etc.)

            Simon Magus grew up in this mixed-up society. The Samaritans called themselves the people of the True God, but religiously were practicing Babylonians. Simon himself was a priest of these people (the word “Magus” is the Chaldean/Persian word for “priest”). Thus, in the encounter of Peter with Simon Magus, we find the first real connection of true Christianity with the Chaldean priest who was prophesied to bring in its false counterpart.

            Next, we will see how Simon Magus managed to startle the Roman world with his plan to bring in one universal religion under the guise of Christianity.

            Simon Magus Begins UNIVERSAL Church

            History comes alive with the startling story of how Simon Magus — branded a FALSE PROPHET by the book of Acts — established HIS OWN UNIVERSAL church!

            SIMON MAGUS was a Babylonian priest. He was a part of the Babylonian community that had been living in the land of Northern Israel ever since the Northern Ten Tribes were carried away captive by the Assyrians. God tells us that these Samaritans, as they were called, were claiming to be the true people of God while at the same time practicing many heathen rites which came directly from Babylon (II Kings 17:41).

            This was the type of religious environment in which Simon Magus was born. This was the environment in which he commenced his own ministry and was finally proclaimed the “great one . . . the great power of God” — that is, God Himself (Acts 8:9-10).

            He so swayed the whole of the Samaritan nation that all gave heed to him — they did for a very long time (Verses 9-11). But when he saw the potential of Christianity, he endeavored to buy an apostleship in the Church. Peter rebuked him sternly.

            Simon Magus and HIS Universal Church

            Simon Magus, after his rejection by Peter, began to fashion his own “Christian” church — a church of which HE was head — a church designed to completely overthrow the True Church of God. His idea was to blend together Babylonian teaching with some of the teachings of Christ — especially to take the name of Christ — and thus create ONE UNIVERSAL CHURCH! But a church with Babylonianism as its basis.

            Harnack, a church historian, states that Simon Magus “proclaimed a doctrine in which the Jewish faith was strangely and grotesquely mixed with BABYLONIAN myths, together with some Greek additions. The mysterious worship . . . in consequence of the widened horizon and the deepening religious feeling, finally the wild SYNCRETISM [that is, blending together of religious beliefs], whose aim WAS A UNIVERSAL RELIGION, all contributed to gain adherents for Simon” (Vol. 1, p. 244).

            Simon can be classified among the major group of so-called Christians (and Simon called himself such), called by Harnack the: “decidedly anti-Jewish groups . . . . They advance much further in the criticism of the Old Testament and perceived the impossibility of saving it [that is, the Old Testament] for the Christian UNIVERSAL RELIGION. They rather connected this [universal] religion with the cultus-wisdom of BABYLON and SYRIA” (VoI. 1, p. 246).

            With this background, we can understand why Peter so strongly rebuked Simon for his Babylonian ideas. Peter prophesied that this was the man who was to be the “gall of bitterness, and bond of iniquity” to the True Church. Simon’s attitude was corrupt in the extreme!

            The Bible shows he had been working through demons. And yet, he finally called himself a “Christian.” Dr. McGiffert, speaking of Simon Magus, says: “His effort to rival and surpass Jesus very likely began after his contact with the Christians that Luke records. His religious system was apparently a SYNCRETISM of Jewish and Oriental elements” (Hasting’s Dictionary of the Apostolic Church, Vol. 2, p. 497).

            Simon’s Later Activities

            To read all the material that the writers of the second to the fourth centuries wrote about this man and his followers, would literally take days. He has been called by many of them “the father of HERESY,” and, apart from the Bible, the amount of literature devoted to him and his activities, shows he lived up to that title.

            Some of the following authorities to be brought forth were eyewitnesses of many of the things mentioned, and they were writing to others who were likewise eyewitnesses. Much of the testimony to be mentioned is conclusive and cannot be set aside.

            With this evidence of Simon’s activities after his rejection by Peter, we will clearly be able to see why Luke thought it most important to tell the real condition of this man, proving that he was in actuality NEVER an Apostle of Christ. In this regard, notice the comment of Hasting’s Dictionary of the Apostolic Church, Vol. 2, p. 496: “But it need NOT be supposed that when Simon broke with the Christians HE RENOUNCED ALL HE HAD LEARNED. It is more probable that he carried some of the Christian ideas with him, and that he wove these into a system of his own. This system did contain some of the later germs of Gnosticism. Thus he became a leader of a retro-grade sect, perhaps nominally Christian, and certainly using some of the Christian terminology but in reality anti-Christian and exalting Simon himself to the central position which Christianity was giving to Jesus Christ” (Ibid).

            Simon Magus Blends Paganism With Christianity!

            What Simon did was to bring the Babylonian and Greek religious beliefs into a form of Christianity in order to bring about, as Harnack says, a UNIVERSAL [Catholic] religion.

            “The amalgam of paganism and Christianity which was characteristic of Gnosticism, and which was especially obvious in the Simonian system, is readily explicable in the teaching of Simon Magus, who, according to the story in Acts, was brought into intimate contact with Christian teaching without becoming a genuine member” (Ibid., p. 496).

            We further find in Schaff’s History of the Church a reference to this Simon Magus. He says: “The author, or first representative of this baptized HEATHENISM, according to the uniform testimony of Christian antiquity, is Simon Magus, who unquestionably adulterated Christianity with pagan ideas and practices, and gave himself out, in a pantheistic style for an emanation of God” Apostolic Christianity, ol. 2, p. 566).

            Simon only used the name of Christianity to bring about his own desired ends. The Dictionary of Religion and Ethics says that Simon was “a false Messiah, who practiced magical arts and subsequently attempted, by the aid and with the sanction of Christianity, to set up a rival UNIVERSAL [Catholic] RELIGION” (Vol. 11, p. 514).

            Again, what do the histories tell us Simon’s doctrines consisted of primarily?

            “Two independent traditions profess to preserve the teaching of Simon, the one betraying the influence of Alexandrian allegory, the other of Syrian and Babylonian religion” Dictionary of Religion and Ethics, Vol. 11, p. 516).

            It is no wonder that Luke hits hard at the infamy of Simon — for Simon claimed to be a Christian — even an Apostle — and yet was preaching Babylonian paganism. HE WAS CALLING PAGANISM BY THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY!

            “Evidently the Simonian heresy always had a Christian tinge. This made it more dangerous to Christians than a Gnostic which did not affect any Christian influence. Luke therefore would be anxious to disclose the true circumstances that accounted for the origin of the sect — circumstances highly discreditable to Simon” Hasting’s Bible Dictionary, p. 498).

            The reason Luke recorded this encounter with Simon was its far-reaching effects. As Hasting’s explains, the important reason was that of “Luke’s well-known plan of describing THE FIRST MEETING between Christianity and rival systems” (Ibid., p. 498).

            Luke gives in detail the principal character who established the so-called Christian counterpart of the Truth in the Apostles’ days. This is the reason the Apostles in their Church letters many times mention the false system as ALREADY IN EXISTENCE, but fail to describe its origin. They didn’t have to. That was already done RIGHT AT THE FIRST by Luke!

            Who History Says This Simon Became!

            “When Justin Martyr wrote [152 A.D.] his Apology, the sect of the Simonians appears to have been formidable, for he speaks four times of their founder, Simon; and we need not doubt that he identified him with the Simon of the Acts. He states that he was a Samaritan, adding that his birthplace was a village called Gitta; he describes him as a formidable magician, and tells that he came to ROME in the days of Claudius Caesar (45 A.D.), and made such an impression by his magical powers, THAT HE WAS HONORED AS A GOD, a statue being erected to him on the Tiber, between the two bridges, bearing the inscription ‘Simoni deo Sancto’ (i.e., the holy god Simon)” Dictionary of Christian Biography,
            Vol. 4, p. 682).

            That these things actually happened CANNOT BE DOUBTED! Justin was writing to the Roman people at the time and they could certainly have exposed Justin’s credulity if what he said was not so. And, that a statue of Simon was actually erected is definite, for Justin asks the authorities in Rome to destroy it!

            There are many writers, who lived in Rome itself, who afterwards repeated Justin’s account. Those who want to reject these clear statements have nothing in their favor. Justin is clearly giving us fact!

            Hasting’s Dictionary of the Apostolic Church, Vol 2, p. 496, states that there is “very slight evidence on which to reject so precise a statement as Justin makes; a statement he would scarcely have hazarded in an apology addressed to Rome, where every person had the means of ascertaining its accuracy. If he made a mistake, it must have been at once exposed, and other writers would not have frequently repeated the story as they have done.”

            At the time of Claudius, it was illegal to erect a statue to any man as a god or greatly honored person unless the permission of the Emperor and the Senate had been secured. The statue was still standing in Justin’s day (152 A.D.), people were still giving regard to it.

            There are many other accounts of Simon’s traveling to Rome and becoming one of the great gods to the city and to the people of Rome. There are records which show that Simon “prophesies that Rome will be the scene of his crowning glory, when he will be adored as a god” Dictionary of Religion & Ethics, Vol. 11, p. 522).

            Simon Peter NOT With Simon Magus in Rome

            Later, about the fourth century, a flood of works came out about Peter encountering Simon Magus in Rome and overthrowing him. But these works are clearly fiction. Almost all scholars realize the absurdity of maintaining such a thing. In the first place, it can be Biblically shown that Peter the Apostle was NEVER in Rome when these fictitious writings say he should be.

            It was NOT Simon Peter who went to Rome to become Apostle to the Gentiles, but the SIMON in Rome was SIMON MAGUS!

            That Peter the Apostle was not with Simon Magus in Rome is made plain by the Encyclopedia Biblica, col. 4554.

            “The attempt has been made to meet this by pointing out that church fathers mention the presence of SIMON in Rome while at the same time NOT speaking of controversies between him and PETER. This is indeed true of Justin [one of the earliest witnesses — 152 A.D. who knows nothing of any presence of Peter in Rome at all, as also of Irenaeus.”

            Not only did Justin feel that Peter was NOT in Rome at the time, but his deliberate silence shows he didn’t want to perpetrate such fiction. After all, Justin lived very early in the history of the church, and the legend of the Apostle Peter’s being in Rome HADN’T GOT
            STARTED YET! Continuing with the Encyclopedia Biblica about Justin’s reference to SIMON MAGUS: “One part of this tradition — that about Simon’s presence in Rome — he [Justin] found himself able to accept [in fact he held it to be confirmed by the statue, which he brought into connection with Simon]; the other — that about Peter’s presence in Rome — he was unable to accept” (col. 4555).

            Of course Justin was unable to accept the latter teaching. The fact is, Simon Peter was NOT in Rome. It was another Simon who went there — SIMON MAGUS, the one bringing “Christianity” to them in the guise of the old Babylonian mystery religions. Simon came to Rome with the grand idea of e stablishing a UNIVERSAL RELIGION in the NAME of Christianity! And what is remarkable, he did just that!

            Next, we will see how Simon Magus became later confused with Simon Peter and how he cleverly brought into “Christianity” the mystery religions of Babylon.

            Peter Was NOT The First Pope!

            Here are TEN solid, Biblical proofs that Peter was not at Rome. Mark each in your Bible and understand them well, so YOU will not be deceived.

            THE PRIMACY of the Roman Catholic Church depends upon one fundamental doctrine: the claim that Peter was the first Bishop of Rome and the founder of the Roman Church.

            The teaching of Catholic historians tells us that Simon Peter went to Rome at the same time as Simon Magus in order to thwart his evils. This was during the reign of Claudius. After successfully combating the Magus, they tell us, Peter assumed the Roman bishopric and ruled it until the Neronian persecutions of 68 A.D., during which Peter was supposed to have been crucified upside down on Vatican hill. This is the basic story and Catholic writers never shirk in attempting to defend it. Some of them say that this general account is one of the most provable of historical events.

            But is it?

            The fact remains, many ecclesiastical authors of the second century, Justin Martyr among them, give information completely negating Peter’s supposed Roman bishopric. This is admitted by virtually all scholars — except conservative Catholics (Ency. Biblica, col. 4554). But, more important than this, the records of the True Church of God — the writings of the New Testament — absolutely refute the Roman Catholic claim.

            It is time that the world gets its eyes open to the truth of this matter — the truth, which is clearly revealed in the Word of God. The Apostle Peter was NEVER the Bishop of Rome!

            The Bible Teaching

            There are ten major New Testament proofs which completely disprove the claim that Peter was in Rome from the time of Claudius until Nero. These Biblical points speak for themselves and ANY ONE of them is sufficient to prove the ridiculousness of the Catholic claim. Notice what God tells us! The truth IS conclusive!

            PROOF ONE: We should consider Christ’s commission to Peter. This is often very embarrassing to Catholics, because Christ commissioned Peter to become chief minister to the CIRCUMCISED, not to uncircumcised Gentiles.

            “The gospel of the CIRCUMCISION was unto Peter; (For He that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)” (Gal. 2:7-8).

            Here we have it in the clearest of language. It was Paul, NOT Peter, who was commissioned to be the chief Apostle to the Gentiles. And who was it that wrote the Epistle to the ROMANS? It certainly WASN’T Peter!

            “And when James, Cephas [Peter], and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace [i.e., the gift or office] that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision” (Gal. 2:9).

            Paul further mentioned his special office as the Gentile Apostle in II Timothy 1:11: “Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.”

            PETER is NOWHERE called the Apostle to the Gentiles! This precludes him from going to Rome to become the head of a Gentile community.

            PROOF TWO: Paul specifically told the Gentile Romans that HE had been chosen to be their Apostle, not Peter.

            “I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable” (Rom. 15:16).

            How clear!

            Paul had the direct charge from Christ in this matter. He even further relates in Romans 15:18 that it was Christ who had chosen him “to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed.”

            PAUL Established Only TRUE Church at Rome

            PROOF THREE: We are told by Paul himself that it was he — not Peter — who was going to officially found the Roman Church. “I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established” (Rom. 1:11).

            Amazing! The Church at Rome had not been ESTABLISHED officially even by 55 or 56 A.D. However, the Catholics would have us believe that Peter had done this some ten years before — in the reign of Claudius.

            What nonsense!

            Of course you understand that NEITHER Peter nor Paul established the Catholic Church! But these proofs are given to illustrate that it is utterly impossible for PETER to have been in any way associated with ANY Church at Rome.

            PROOF FOUR: We find Paul not only wanting to establish the Church at Rome, but he emphatically tells us that his policy was NEVER to build upon another man’s foundation. “Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, LEST I SHOULD BUILD UPON ANOTHER MAN’S FOUNDATION”
            (Rom. 15:20).

            If Peter had “founded” the Roman Church some ten years before this statement, this represents a real affront to Peter. This statement alone is proof that Peter had never been in Rome before this time to “found”
            any church.

            Peter Not in Rome

            PROOF FIVE: At the end of Paul’s Epistle to the Romans he greets no fewer than 28 different individuals, but never mentions Peter once! See Romans 16 — read the whole chapter!

            Remember, Paul greeted these people in 55 or 56 A.D. Why didn’t he mention Peter? — Peter simply wasn’t there!

            PROOF SIX: Some four years after Paul wrote Romans, he was conveyed as a prisoner to Rome in order to stand trial before Caesar. When the Christian community in Rome heard of Paul’s arrival, they all went to meet him. “When THE brethren [of Rome] heard of us, they came to meet us” (Acts 28:15).

            Again, there is not a single mention of Peter among them. This would have been extraordinary had Peter been in Rome, for Luke always mentions by name important Apostles in his narration of Acts. But he says nothing of Peter’s meeting with Paul.

            Why? Because Peter was not in Rome!

            PROOF SEVEN: When Paul finally arrived at Rome, the first thing he did was to summon “the chief of the Jews together” (Acts 28:17) to whom he “expounded and testified the kingdom of God” (Verse 23).

            But what is amazing is that these chief Jewish elders claimed they knew very little even about the basic teachings of Christ. All they knew was that ‘‘as concerning this sect, we know that everywhere it is spoken against” (Verse 22). Then Paul began to explain to them the basic teachings of Christ on the Kingdom of God. Some believed — the majority didn’t.

            Now, what does all this mean? It means that if Peter, who was himself a strongly partisan Jew, had been preaching constantly in Rome for 14 long years before this time, AND WAS STILL THERE — how could these Jewish leaders have known so little about even the basic truths of Christianity? This again is clear proof Peter had not been in Rome prior to 59 A.D.

            No Mention of Peter in Paul’s Letters

            PROOF EIGHT: After the rejection of the Jewish elders, Paul remained in his own hired house for two years. During that time he wrote Epistles to the Ephesians, the Philippians, the Colossians, Philemon, and to the Hebrews. And while Paul mentions others as being in Rome during that period, he nowhere mentions Peter. The obvious reason is — the Apostle to the circumcision wasn’t there!

            PROOF NINE: With the expiration of Paul’s two year’s imprisonment, he was released. But about four years later (near 65 A.D.), he was again sent back a prisoner to Rome. This time he had to appear before the throne of Caesar and was sentenced to die. Paul describes these circumstances at length in II Timothy.

            In regard to his trial, notice what Paul said in II Timothy 4:16.

            “At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men [in Rome] forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.”

            This means, if we believe the Catholics, that Peter forsook Paul, for they tell us Peter was very much present at Rome during this time! Peter once denied Christ, but that was before he was converted. To believe that Peter was in Rome during Paul’s trial, is untenable!

            PROOF TEN: The Apostle Paul distinctly informs us that Peter was not in Rome in 65 A.D. — even though Catholics say he was. Paul said: “Only Luke is with me” (II Tim. 4:11).

            The truth becomes very plain. Paul wrote TO Rome; he had been IN Rome; and at the end wrote at least six epistles FROM Rome; and not only does he NEVER mention Peter, but at the last moment says: “Only Luke is with me.”

            Peter, therefore, was never Bishop of Rome!

            Where Was Peter?

            Near 45 A.D., we find Peter being cast into prison at Jerusalem (Acts 12:3, 4). In 49 A.D., he was still in Jerusalem, this time attending the Jerusalem Council. About 51 A.D., he was in Antioch of Syria where he got into differences with Paul because he wouldn’t sit or eat with Gentiles. Strange that the “Roman bishop” would have nothing to do with Gentiles in 51 A.D.!

            Later in about 66 A.D., we find him in the city of Babylon among the Jews (I Pet. 5:13). Remember that Peter was the Apostle to the CIRCUMCISED. Why was he in Babylon? Because history shows that there were as many Jews in the Mesopotamian areas in Christ’s time as there were in Palestine. It is no wonder we find him in the East. Perhaps this is the reason why scholars say Peter’s writings are strongly Aramaic in flavor — the type of Aramaic spoken in Babylon. Why of course! Peter was used to their eastern dialect.

            At the times the Catholics believe Peter was in Rome, the Bible clearly shows he was elsewhere. The evidence is abundant and conclusive. By paying attention to God’s own words, no one need be deceived. Peter was NEVER the Bishop of Rome!

            A “PETER” Was in Rome Two Thousand Years B.C.!

            Who was the first “Peter” of Rome? What were his successors called? The history of ancient religion reveals the plain truth about the original Peter of Rome. The truth about his real successors is now clear to us — but hidden to the world. Here is what history shows us of the ORIGINAL Peter of Rome. The truth is startling!

            THE BIBLE records that in the earliest ages, right after the Flood of Noah, men began to rebel against the teachings of God. They began to build cities, found religions, bring in idolatries. Pagan temples were erected — the Tower of Babel came on the scene. All o these things started within the first two hundred years after the Flood.

            Pagan Gods Called “Peters”

            Surprising as it may sound, it is a well-known fact among students of ancient religion, that the chief pagan gods worshipped in the early civilizations were generally known by the name PETER. It is also known that the priests of those heathen gods were also called PETERS. That same name in one form or another, was even applied to the pagan TEMPLES consecrated to those gods.

            Notice what Bryant, in his work Ancient Mythology says: “Not only the gods, but the Hierophantae [special priests], in most temples; and those priests in particular, who were occupied in the celebration of mysteries, were styled PATRES” (vol. 1, p. 354).

            This is significant! The word PATRE is the same as PATOR or PETER in meaning and pronunciation.

            Bryant continues: “PATRE was undoubtedly a religious term . . . . the same as PATOR and PATORA.”

            The ancient pagan gods, the priests who were their ministers, and their sacred sanctuaries — their temples — were ALL called PETORS or PETERS (either spelling is acceptable since vowels are fluid in all languages — especially the Semitic).

            The Meaning of “Peter”

            What did the word PATOR or PETER really mean to the ancients? Surprisingly enough, the word is in the Bible. When Moses wrote about the Egyptian priests, he shows they were called PETERS or “interpreters” — interpreters of the ancient Egyptian mysteries.

            Notice Genesis 41:8. Davidson shows in his Hebrew Lexicon that the consonantal word P-T-R (PETER) signifies “to interpret” or “interpretation” (p. 638; of Brown, Driver, Briggs, p. 837; and Gesenius, p. 877 and p. 843). Bryant points out that “the term always related to oracle interpretation” (p. 308).

            The pagan priests of the mystery religions were called PATORS or PETERS. They had the power to interpret the heathen mysteries. This is further brought out by Bunson in his Hieroglyph, page 545, where he shows that the Egyptians — as the Bible also indicates — called their “interpreters” or priests: PETR, that is, PETER.

            The term PETER was one of the earliest names for the pagan gods. It lasted as late as Greek and Roman times. But by that time the term also took on a widespread secular meaning. It came generally to mean “father” or “parent.” But this was not its primary meaning at all. Bryant continues: “The word PATER, when used in the religious addresses of the Greeks and Romans, meant NOT, as is supposed, a father or parent; but related to the divine influence of the Deity, called by the people of the East, PATOR” (Ibid., p. 353).

            In many ancient religions the father was the chief priest of the family. That is the reason the head of the family became known as PATOR or “father.” The father, because of his priestly position, became known as the ARCHPATOR, or, as it is commonly rendered, PATRIARCH. This is how the term PATOR came to signify, in a secular sense, “a father.” But originally, it always meant, “interpreter” — especially one of the mystery religions.

            Chief Pagan Gods Called PETERS

            We have clear evidence showing that the ancient Romans called their chief gods PETERS — the divine interpreters. The early Roman writer Lucilius, mentions Neptune, Liber, Saturn, Mars, Janus and Quirnus — all were PATERS. (See the Lucilii Fragments.) He did not mean they were “father-gods.” He meant they were gods of PETER-rank — the chief gods.

            Lucilius doesn’t exhaust the list. In fact, he leaves out JUPITER, the “Father” of the Roman gods. But it was unnecessary to mention him as a “PETER-god.” Due to his high rank, the title PETER was actually incorporated as a part of his name. He was called JU-PETER.

            Gladstone in his work on the antiquities of Greece, shows that Jupiter and the Greek god ZEUS were one and the same, JU-PETER was the Roman way of saying ZEUS-PETER, the chief god of the Greeks (Homer and the Homeric Age, vol. I, p. 287), PETER was the name that came to signify high rank among the gods — and among their priests

            Greeks Used Term “Peter”

            The Romans were not the only ones who called their gods PETERS, The Classical Manual reveals that the Greeks used the term PETER (or its variants) as often as did the Romans.
            For example, Apollo was called PATRIUS and his followers APOLLO PATRIUS (p. 23). Pausanius tells us that Artemis and Bacchus were called PATORA, that is PETER-gods (Books 1, 2). Pindar speaks of Poseidon Petraios. He says the Thessalians worshipped Neptune under this title (Pyth. Ode 4).

            In Egypt, the Ammonian priests — who headed one of the chief pagan oracles of ancient Egypt — were called Petors, as Bryant also says: “The chief instrument (idol) in their hands was styled PIETAURUM” (Ibid., p. 356).

            This idol on many occasions took the form of a pole or upright stake (Ibid., p. 358). The pagan god Artemis is often pictured standing by a stone pillar which is called PATROA or PETER (Pausanius, Bk. 1). These pillars, and all the phallic symbols like them, came to be known as PETRAS — the sacred PETERS. (It is still common among the vulgar to refer to the male member by its original religious name — PETER.) These phallic Peter-stones can be found all over the ancient world. In fact, there is not a mention of an ancient pagan oracle temple without some notice being given to a PETER emblem — the sacred stone.

            Like the word PATOR — which came to indicate simply a “father” or “parent” — the word PETRA came to mean any large stone. But in the earliest times, it conveyed only the original religious meaning.

            “The term PETRA came at length to signify any rock or stone and to be in a manner confined to that meaning. But in the first ages it was ALWAYS TAKEN IN A RELIGIOUS SENSE; and related to the shrines of Osiris, or the Sun (Baal), and to other oracles which were supposed to be exhibited” (Bryant, p. 359). In other words, the term PETRA meant the sacred PETER-stone — a stone usually phallic in design.

            “Petras” in Pagan World

            Notice some references to these sacred PETRAS found throughout the pagan world.

            At the temple of Delphi in Greece, the chief object in the ritual was the PETRA (Pausanius, Bk. 10). At the Acropolis in Athens, Euripides tells us, the niches which held the idols were called the PETRAE (verse 935). It is well-known that even the sacred book which was used in the celebration of the Eleusinian mysteries, was entitled “Book PETROMA,” PETER-ROMA– PETER’S BOOK (see Potter’s Antiquities, vol. 1, p. 356).

            Remember that the pagan temples were also called after the PETERS. The temple at Elis in Greece was called PETRON (Lycophron, verse 159). Pytho at Delphi was called PETRAessa (Olymp. Ode 6). The oracle temple dedicated to Apollo in Asia Minor was called the PATARA and the oracle there was called PATAReus (“Eus” means “person who, one”) — (Lempriere’s Classical Dictionary, p. 438).

            Also PATRAE — an ancient town where DIANA had a temple (p. 438), and the oracle in Achaia was called PATRA (Jones, Proper Names of the Old Testament, p. 296).

            Examples are too numerous to mention, but this should be enough to show that the name PETER, or its variants, figured very high in every phase of pagan worship. These PETER stones and temples were found all over the ancient world.

            “There is in the history of every oracular temple some legend about a stone; some reference to the word PETRA” (Bryant, p. 362).

            Origin of Ancient PETER-worship

            PETER-worship can be traced directly back to MESOPOTAMIA. It was there that idolatry had its beginning. There is where the Tower of Babel was erected. It is no wonder that in Mesopotamia we find the first mention of a PETER-temple. In Numbers 23; 22:4-5 we read that the false prophet Balaam was called to prophesy against Israel. Further, in Deuteronomy 23:4, we read that this Balaam had been called from “Pethor of Mesopotamia” — that is, from the PETER of MESOPOTAMIA.

            This Pethor or Peter (either spelling is correct) was the place of an oracle temple. In the Dictionary of Proper Names of the Old Testament, edited by A. Jones, we find that Balaam’s PETHOR was the sacred high place “where there was an oracular temple, and hence called PETHOR, and PETHORA, which meant, place of interpretation, or oracular temple. Here was, no doubt, a college of priests of whom Balaam had been appointed chief PATORA” (p. 296).

            Yes, Balaam was the chief PATORA (Peter) of the PETHOR (Peter-temple) of Mesopotamia.

            It was customary for each pagan country to have a chief oracle or tempIe. The PETHOR or PETER in Greece was Delphi, In Egypt it was Ammon. In Asia Minor it was Lycia — and later Pergamos. Professor Jones tells about the other PETHORS throughout the world.

            Notice: “These ‘high places’ were scattered about in many parts. There was a city of ‘interpretation’ in Acaia, called PATRAE, and another in Lycia, called PATARA, where Apollo had an oracle. PETHOR was in after times celebrated for the worship of Ailat” (Ibid., p. 296).

            Balaam “Chief Peter”

            But Balaam came from PETHOR on the Euphrates — the oracle of Mesopotamia. He was no less than the CHIEF PATORA (as Jones mentions) of the VERY HOME of idolatry and false religion.

            The very meaning of the name “Balaam” shows he considered himself as sitting in the very chair of Nimrod, the beginner of the mystery religions. The name “Balaam” means in Semitic tongues “Conqueror of the People.” This was the exact proper name the Greeks used to designate NIMROD. They called him NICOLAUS, which also meant “Conqueror of the People.”

            In the New Testament we read of people following the doctrines of NICOLAUS (Nimrod). They were called Nicolaitanes. McClintock and Strong’s Encyclopaedia speaking of them says: “The sect of the Nicolaitanes is described as following the doctrine or teaching of Balaam — and it appears not improbable that this name is employed symbolically, as NICOLAUS is equivalent in meaning to BALAAM” (vol. 1, p. 621).

            Yes, the two names NICOLAUS and BALAAM are exactly the same in meaning — they both point to NIMROD, the originator of paganism. We also find that when Simon Magus (alias Simon Peter) “Christianized” the religion of NIMROD, John the Apostle plainly labels his followers NICOLAITANES and followers of BALAAM. All of the heresies mentioned in the Seven Churches are of only ONE system — the system of NIMROD, under the leadership of Simon Magus.

            Balaam Represents Nimrod

            The name of Balaam is another name for NIMROD. But, understand this clearly — the “Balaam” who met Israel on their way out of Egypt was NOT the original Nimrod. He had been killed several hundred years before. This Balaam merely represented Nimrod as his successor. We are all aware that Joshua, being a successor of Moses, was looked on as sitting in Moses’ seat. Even in Christ’s time the scribes and Pharisees sat in Moses’ seat of authority (Matt. 23:1-4).

            So it was with Balaam. He maintained one of the proper names of Nimrod to signify that he was the legitimate successor of the Arch-Rebel. And to emphasize his authority, Balaam could point to his headquarters as the PETHOR or PETER of Mesopotamia. Therefore, the Moabites in their hatred for Israel called for the chief priest of the pagan world. They ignored the priesthood of their own national gods — going to the highest authority they knew! Josephus represents this false prophet as “Balaam, who lived by the Euphrates, and was the greatest of the prophets of that time” (Ant. IV, 6,2). Balaam was the successor of Nimrod — the PONTIFEX MAXIMUS of the pagan world. His headquarters was the “PETER on the Euphrates” — the SAINT PETER’S OF MESOPOTAMIA, the chief oracle of paganism. This is a shocking revelation — but one which stands the test of the Bible and ancient religious history.

            PETER-gods Come to Rome

            It is well-known history that in the earliest ages, the center of civilization was in Asia and Mesopotamia. In later times, political power passed to the Greeks and then to the Romans. It is also well-recognized that the religions of Asia, by Greek and Roman times, had also passed to the West. By the First Century, the mystery religions of the Babylonians were centered primarily in Rome! By that time, Rome had become the chief city of the world.

            Early records mention this transference of pagan religion from Asia right to the city of Rome. The First Century book by Virgil, The Aenid, in Imperial times became a type of Roman “Bible.” It gives the story of one Aeneas who wandered away from Asia right after the Trojan War and settled in Italy.

            The main theme of the book concerns the so-called “sacred task” of Aeneas: bringing the pagan gods of Asia to Italy! Virgil spares no words in glorifying Aeneas’ journey. He shows how Aeneas brought the Romans ORGANIZED RELIGION — with all the pagan gods and goddesses necessary for performing it. And most important: Virgil constantly says that these deities were the PATRII of Asia. (See the CIassical Manual, page 592, for full information confirming this.) These gods and goddesses were the PETER-deities — the chief deities which were destined to favor Rome and Italy above all other countries.

            Asia had been the original home of the PETER-gods. Through Virgil we find them being transported to the doorstep of Rome. And why not? By the First Century, Rome was considered “the home of the gods.” Prudentius, an ancient Roman himself, says that there wasn’t a single pagan deity that did not in the end find its headquarters at Rome.

            Notice what he says: “There came to be one single home for all earth-born gods, and you may count as many temples of gods AT ROME as tombs of heroes in all the world” (Symmachus, 189 to 197).

            It could hardly be clearer! By Imperial times, Rome became the headquarters of pagan religion. It was the chief oracle of the world, the PETER for the earth.

            The Chief Gods of Rome

            There were two gods of ancient Rome which were pre-eminently worshipped as PETER-gods. One was JU-PETER (Zeus-Peter). The other, says the Classical Manual, was JANUS, called PATER or PETER (see page 389). Sometimes these two gods are confused. But they are to be reckoned as distinct — relative to Roman paganism of the First Century. The latter god, JANUS-PETER, had some interesting roles to play in the pagan religion at Rome. These roles answer the question: Who was the original Peter of Rome? Notice a brief history and some of the activities of this god.

            Plutarch in his life of Numa, gives us the identity of JANUS. Originally, according to Plutarch, Janus was an ancient prince who reigned in the infancy of the world. He brought men from a rude and savage life to a mild and rational system. HE was the first to build cities and the first to establish government over men. After his death he was deified. There can be no mistaking who this JANUS was! This title was just another of the many names of Nimrod. This ancient prince who was violently killed, was later deified by the pagan religions. Because of his high authority, he was called a PATOR or PETER.

            Here are some of the religious activities of which JANUS-PETER was in charge.

            It was JANUS-PETER who was pre-eminent in interpreting the times — especially prophecy. “The past and the future was always present in his mind” (Classical Manual, pages 388 and 389). He was pictured as being double-faced. Plutarch said this was a symbol of his endeavor to change men from barbarism to civilization — that is, bring them to the civilization of NIMROD. One of JANUS’ roles, after his deification as a god, was the continuation of his sacred task of “civilizing” men.

            But let us go a little farther.

            Janus-Peter Had “Keys”

            The PETER-god JANUS was to the ancient Romans the “KEEPER OF THE GATES OF HEAVEN AND EARTH.” “HE IS REPRESENTED WITH A KEY IN ONE HAND . . . as emblematic of his presiding over GATES and highways.”

            How shocking! The pagan Romans were calling their JANUS a PETER hundreds of years before the birth of the Apostle Peter. It was this JANUS who was in charge of the “pearly gates”! The very word JANUS means “gates,” that is, the one in charge of the GATES.

            The Classical Manual continues: “Ovid speaks of him [Janus] in the first book of his Fasti; his face is double to denote his equal empire over the heavens and the earth — [does not the Pope claim the same power today?] — and that all things are open and shut to him AT HIS WILL — [he was infallible and answered to no one for his actions, so the Pope] — that he governs the universe [Catholicum], and alone possesses the power of making the world revolve on its axis; THAT HE PRESIDES OVER THE GATES OF HEAVEN.”

            Catholics Claim “Keys”

            The Catholic Church claims Peter gave to it the keys of the gates of heaven and that no one will enter into God’s presence unless that church opens the gates. The very word “Cardinal” means “hinge.” The Cardinals of the Roman Church are the HINGES upon which the GATE — the Pope — is able to turn.

            The Classical Manual continues: “the successions of day and night are regulated by his influence; and that the east and the west is at one moment open to his view.” It was JANUS-PETER who also controlled the calendar by his priests. The first month of the year was named after him to show his control over the years. So, today, we still have JANU-ary as the first month. The Catholic Church, like the priests of Janus, feels it has this same authority over the calendar today.

            Another Name for Nimrod

            Finally, it is necessary to notice at least one more name under which Nimrod masqueraded — the name MITHRAS, the Persian name for Baal, the sun god. This Mithras-worship of Nimrod was popular and was one of the last to plant itself in Rome, but it had a very old theme — outright PETER-worship. “Mithras was styled by the nations of the East PATOR; his temples were PATRA and PETRA and his festivals PATRICA” (Bryant, vol. 1, p. 370).

            Yes, even Nimrod under the name Mithras, the sun-god, was called PETER!!!

            Sir James Frazer tells us of this religion of Mithra — the religion of the pagan PETER — coming to Rome. Notice it. “Among the gods of eastern origin who in the decline of the ancient world competed against each other for the allegiance of the West was the old Persian deity of MITHRA. The immense popularity of his worship is attested by the monuments illustrative of it which have been found scattered in profusion ALL OVER THE ROMAN EMPIRE. In respect both of doctrines and of rites the cult of MITHRA appears to have presented many points of resemblance not only to the religion of the Mother of the Gods but also to Christianity” (Golden Bough, St. Martin’s ed., vol. 1, p. 471).

            Catholics Accept “Peter” Worship

            What he means is that the Christianity of the third and fourth centuries had already by that time inherited so much from pagan beliefs, that this PETER-religion coming from the East found many similarities with Roman Christianity. The Catholics had already, by this late date, accepted the pagan festivals of Christmas, Easter and a host of other rituals and beliefs. Frazer continues: “Taken altogether, the coincidences of the Christian with the heathen festivals are too close and too numerous to be accidental” (Ibid., p. 475).

            It was this pagan MITHRAISM which gave the most to “Christianity.”

            Bryant shows that the chief name of MITHRA in the East was PATOR or PETER — “his temples were PATRA and PETRA and his festivals PATRICA.” Everything connected with this ancient pagan religion can be traced right back to the original PETER — the original “interpreter of the mysteries” who was none other than NIMROD. This is the same mystery system which the Roman Catholics have absorbed.

            Sits in “Peter’s” Chair

            No wonder the Roman Catholic Church claims to sit in PETER’S CHAIR and that the chief temple of the world is today called SAINT PETER’S. That Church has accepted the practices and symbols of the oldest pagan religion on earth: PETER-worship — the religion of Nimrod.

            This pagan religion was believed and practiced before Christ ever told the Apostle Peter and the other Apostles that they were to have the “keys of the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 16:19). Satan counterfeited God’s true religion centuries b

          • Ruach

            Part 2

            SIMON PETER versus SIMON MAGUS

            Satan counterfeited God’s true religion centuries before Christ came!

            This was Satan’s attempt to smother God’s true religion with a counterfeit that to the untrained eye looks genuine. He did this principally through Simon Magus (Pater) who amalgamated all the pagan religions into one UNIVERSAL religion and called the system “Christianity.”

            The Bible tells us to come completely out of this false religious system masquerading under the name of Christianity. We are to get back to the faith once delivered to the saints. We can thank God for His goodness in giving to His Church the TRUTH.

            Simonites Establish UNIVERSAL CHURCH

            Elevating his personal teachings above the Bible, and preaching a “no-works” doctrine of salvation, Simon Magus soon had a universal, popular following. Deified by the Romans, he was buried on Vatican Hill. Read how it happened in this article.

            SIMON Magus, just like his Samaritan forefathers, deliberately blended together the teachings of Babylon with Biblical phrases.

            One of his main intentions was to appropriate a Christian vocabulary to the Babylonian ceremonial system. In other words, he kept on with his heathenism, but now called his system “Christian” in origin.

            Let’s go on. “But he [Simon] promised that the world should be dissolved, and that those who were his own should be redeemed. And accordingly, HIS PRIESTS, Irenaeus tells us [yes, Simon established a priesthood], led lascivious lives, used magic and incantations, made philtres, HAD FAMILIAR SPIRITS by whose aid they were able to trouble with dreams those whom they would. They had IMAGES of Simon and Helen, in the forms respectively of JUPITER and MINERVA” (Dict. of Christian Biography, vol. 4, p. 683).

            Simon Honored as Jupiter

            People who had demonic powers as Simon did, were honoured as gods in the first century — even sacrifices were offered to them. Does this seem unlikely? Then read Acts 14:11-13. After seeing the great miracles that Paul and Barnabas had done through the Holy Spirit, Luke says: “When the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercury.” Then the priest of Jupiter came out to offer them sacrifice.

            Paul and Barnabas “rent their clothes” at such action. What would SIMON MAGUS have done? Or rather, what did Simon Magus do? He let the Roman Senate with the approval of the Emperor Claudius deify him as a god and erect a statue to him. And, the people who followed SIMON called him JUPITER — at the same time calling themselves Christians. The statue that must have been dedicated to Simon was in the likeness of the chief god of the pagan world — the god that desolated the Holy Place in God’s temple — Jupiter Capitolinus.

            The Death of Simon Magus

            The records regarding Simon’s death vary widely. Many of the stories try to incorporate some fiction from the Greek and Egyptian myths to enhance the reader’s interest in this fascinating character. But the earliest records say that he was buried in Rome after a long period of great honour and deification.

            It is not clearly known where Simon Magus alias Simon Pater or Simon Jupiter was buried. But this much is known. The place of burial for ALL prophets and holy men of the Romans was in the sacred cemetery on Vatican Hill. This much is certain.

            Notice what Werner Keller in his The Bible as History says about the so-called burial of the Catholics’ Peter. (Before reading Keller’s statement, let us remember that he is a thorough-going Catholic and firmly, himself, believed that the Apostle Peter was buried in Rome. However, the Bible shows nothing of the kind. Now, let’s read Keller’s comment — the official comment of the Roman Catholic Church):

            “On the night of his death on the cross Peter’s followers BURIED his body. As in the case of Jesus on the hill of Calvary it was wrapped in linen and secretly taken to a PAGAN BURIAL GROUND on the Via Cornelia, behind the stone structure of the arena. This PAGAN CEMETERY lay on a knoll called VATICANUS: the Latin word ‘vatis’ means a ‘prophet’ or ‘SOOTHSAYER’. In days gone by there had been an Etruscan oracle on this spot” (p. 368).

            What an admission!

            Keller ought to have better sense to know that this Peter buried in this cemetery, of all places, could NOT be the Apostle Peter. In the first place, Peter was a Jew, and they had to be buried in their own cemeteries. And even if by a happen-chance a Jew could be buried in a Roman cemetery, it is most unlikely that a Jew — especially one who attacked the Roman religion as the Apostle Peter did — would ever have been allowed into the most holy of pagan cemeteries! This cemetery was reserved for prophets, soothsayers and the great ones of pagan Rome. It would be as sensible to say that Hitler could find a place of burial in Westminster Abbey. And too, can you imagine TRUE Christians searching out a PAGAN CEMETERY — the chief one — in which to bury the chief Christian Apostle, the inveterate enemy of PAGANISM?

            This place, of all places, could not be the place of the Apostle Peter’s burial — even if he had been in Rome. But, there is really no better place for the burial of SIMON MAGUS. He had been, and was being, honoured as a god — not only by the people of Rome, but even by the Emperor and the Senate.

            Yes, Keller and his Catholic friends have undoubtedly found a SIMON, but not the Apostle Peter.

            Catholic Church Accepts SIMON MAGUS’ Teachings

            We have the record of history which tells us that Simon’s teaching spread like wildfire — especially in Rome where he was honoured as a god. In fact, after going there he made that city his headquarters. But let us recall that the followers of Simon called themselves TRUE Christians.

            Simon steadfastly adhered to this. In fact, it finally became the desired name for his followers to use. The names Simonians and Samaritans began to die out in the 2nd century A.D. Justin tells us that some were still going by the parent name in his day (152 A.D.). But by the time of Origen (220 A.D.), he states that there were hardly 30 people in the world which went by the parent name. Yet Eusebius, who lived about 100 years later, said they were indeed still numerous all over the world.

            The fact is, they were divorcing themselves from the use of the name SIMON or Samaritans because by the fourth century their names were beginning to have an odious connotation to them. Nonetheless the Simonians were very much around — this time with the name of “Christian.” And we have the exact testimony of Eusebius himself (325 A.D.) that these people were flocking into the Catholic Church.

            Notice what Eusebius says, after stating that Simon Magus in the days of the Apostles received baptism and feigned Christian belief: “And what is more surprising, the same thing IS DONE EVEN TO THIS DAY by those who follow HIS most impure heresy. For they, after the manner of their forefather, SLIPPING INTO THE CHURCH, like a pestilential and leprous disease GREATLY AFFLICT THOSE [a great number of people] into whom they are able to infuse the deadly and terrible poison concealed in themselves” (Eccl. Hist., II, ch. I, sect. 12).

            This is amazing testimony, for Eusebius is telling us that these people were now “Christians” and that they were corrupting the entire church as a pestilential disease which hits the whole body. Eusebius later maintains that the chief troublemakers were being expelled from the Catholic Church. But how could they expel all of them? Almost the whole church by this time was affected.

            It is not to be supposed that all of the early heretical sects were direct branches of the Simon Magus religion. By the end of the first century there were at least 50 minor sects. The Simon Magus group represented several of these sects, but not all of them. The truth is, the Simonians, whose headquarters were at Rome, finally absorbed ALL these minor sects by the fifth century.

            Simonism IS Catholicism

            It is also true that even some of the Catholics (in Eusebius’ time) were unwilling to go all the way and accept the SIMON MAGUS doctrines of IMAGES, PICTURES, INCANTATIONS, etc., but within another hundred years, history shows the bars were let down completely.

            But in Eusebius’ day, he even balked at their bringing outright images into the churches and worshiping them. Notice what he finally says of these “Christians” of SIMON: “Simon was the author of all heresy. From his time down to the present those who have followed his heresy have FEIGNED the sober philosophy of the Christians, which is celebrated among all on account of its purity of life. But they nevertheless have embraced again the superstitions of idols, which they seemed [ostentatiously] to have renounced; and they fall down before pictures and images of Simon himself and of the above-mentioned Helena who was with him [that is, the images of JUPITER and MINERVA — the Catholics do exactly this today]; and they venture to worship them with incense and sacrifices and libations” (Eccl. Hist. II, 13, 6).

            What clear and revealing statements! Eusebius is not talking about what he considers distinct heretics outside the Catholic Church. He is talking about the MAJOR group IN THAT CHURCH which was continually adding more and more on a large scale. He attributes these evils to the “Christians” who followed SIMON MAGUS. They were so active in his day INSIDE THE CHURCH as to give him grave concern.

            But what happened?

            Did the few Catholic leaders of the fourth century who abhorred outright IDOLATRY manage to persuade the masses to give it up and turn away from the SIMONIANS (now called Christians) who were the cause of it all?

            The answer from history is NO!

            The Simonian “Christians” won out. Imagery, idolatry and paganism — became the Universal Church just as planned in the very beginning by SIMON MAGUS — or by the Devil who possessed him.

            Can we now understand why God, through Luke, devotes a whole section of Acts to warn us of this man’s origin. He was NEVER a part of the Church of God — NEVER!! But he, and his followers — from clear history — have succeeded in bringing in their UNIVERSAL religion — a pagan blend, called “Christian”!

            Magus Counterfeit Marked Throughout New Testament

            WHILE the book of Acts gives us the KEY which shows the beginnings of the false religious system under Simon Magus, it does not describe its activities in any great detail. The Acts, however, performs its purpose in exposing who started the whole mess. God leaves it to the epistles, Revelation, and also the Gospel of John to describe the heresy IN DETAIL. We are certainly NOT left in doubt concerning its
            abominable teachings.

            The Chief Books of Expose

            There is hardly an epistle that does not mention the religion of Simon Magus. Even the scholars who have studied Church History have clearly seen that almost ALL of the references in the New Testament epistles exposing the errors in the first age of the Church are directed exclusively to Simon Magus, or his immediate followers.

            Schaff’s History of the Church says the following about Simon Magus and his doctrines: “Plain traces of this error appear in the later epistles of Paul (to the Colossians, to Timothy, and to Titus), the second epistle of Peter, the first two epistles of John, the epistle of Jude, and the messages of the Apocalypse to the seven Churches.”

            “This heresy, in the second century, spread over the whole church, east and west, in the various schools of Gnosticism” (Apostolic Christianity, vol. 2, p. 556).

            But to single out the one Apostle who seems to have made the most deliberate and planned attack on the false Christianity of Simon Magus — we must look to John.

            Take his Gospel for instance. While he records a history of Christ’s ministry, he has an entirely different approach to the subject than the other three.

            John wrote late. Times had changed. John knew that the teachings of Christ were being corrupted by a well-known plot to destroy the TRUTH. To understand John’s approach to his Gospel we must be aware of his endeavour to expose this false system which had arisen and was gaining momentum.

            Notice how John constantly hits at the necessity of keeping the commandments of God. Why? Because the false system was preaching LIBERTINE doctrines. Notice also John’s particular geographical settings for his Gospel. He was the one who mentions Christ’s meeting with the woman of Samaria. John is clearly striking home at something in this Samaritan incident that the Church of his time NEEDED to know.

            All the other Gospels mention SAMARIA about five times, and even then only casually or in order to give a simple geographical indication. But, when we get to John, writing years after the others, he devotes more space to matters in SAMARIA than is done in all the rest of the New Testament put together. He had a definite and precise REASON for doing so.

            John is noted for his plan of “tying up” or “capping off” the Gospel accounts of Christ so as to give the Church a well-rounded Gospel — bringing in the extra points which were necessary for our knowing.

            Also, John’s epistles are jam-packed with specific information regarding the conspiracy to overthrow the Truth. But yet, none of these works of John mentioned above represent his LAST efforts to warn the Church of that conspiracy which was very much present. John’s last witness to God’s Church before his death was the book of Revelation.

            Christ gave His last written message of WARNING of this system through John in Revelation! He tells us specifically the VERY NAMES OF THE SYSTEM TO WATCH in a remarkable and hidden way. Hidden, and yet SO PLAIN once the KEYS are understood. God certainly does NOT leave His Church in the dark.

            The Book of Revelation

            This book is perhaps the most important towards our study of SIMON MAGUS’ Christianity. Why? Three clear-cut reasons.

            (1) The book of Acts gives us the PAST history of the Church. It tells us about Simon Magus who started the false system. Without the book of Acts identifying the MAN behind it all, the activities of that false system as recorded in the epistles becomes obscured and in some cases unintelligible. So, the book of Acts is vitally important! !

            (2) The epistles then come on the scene, describing the false system. With the epistles, the incident of SIMON MAGUS in Acts represents dynamite!! Each section of Scripture is designed to fulfill specific duties. It is when we understand those duties that the Bible really makes sense.

            (3) Now to the all-important book of Revelation. While Acts describes the beginning of the false system; the epistles nail down its doctrines and describe its activities; the Book of Revelation next comes to the foreground showing the false system’s PROPHETIC HISTORY THROUGH ALL ERAS OF THE CHURCH. We must remember that Revelation intends to show us “things which shall be hereafter.” This is its duty — and it marvelously performs what it was intended to do.

            The Seven Churches of Revelation

            This section of Revelation gives a big KEY. It describes a brief prophetic history of the Church until the coming of Christ. But also — and this is important — it continually shows the false system with which the TRUE Church would come in contact. Though different names are used to describe the corrupters of the Truth, careful study shows Christ is referring to ONE general false system — perhaps with ramifications, but nevertheless ONE system which will counter the True Church in its entire history.

            And in regard to this, Christ tells us in the plainest of words what people it will be, who represent this false system. He tells us it will be SAMARITANS! That is, it will be Samaritans, alias Christians or, plainly, the followers of SIMON MAGUS!

            Christ gives us double witness of this identification in a most remarkable way. What He tells us in Acts of SIMON MAGUS being the beginning of the diabolical scheme, He reinforces by telling us in Revelation that Simon’s followers will make up the false system until Christ returns to this earth. Remember that Dr. Schaff, speaking of Simon Magus, says that “plain traces of this error appear in . . . the messages of the Apocalypse to the seven Churches.”

            But before seeing these clear references, I must say that the material to follow would have been in the past classified as ABSURD in the extreme, but recent discoveries put a whole new complexion on the matter. Let us see.

            The Evidence

            Christ identifies the people behind the false system with several names, but these are simply different names of the same system. Notice this. In two distinct AGES of the Church we read of these people with a distinct description.

            “Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do LIE; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet” (Rev. 3:9).

            This is a promise for US today in the Philadelphia Church. We also read of these false people called by this same name afflicting the Christians of the Smyrna church era (Rev. 2:9). The identification is repeated TWICE and both are describing conditions hundreds of years apart. Now the question remains: WHO ARE INTENDED? The answer is so clear. They are Samaritan-Christians, that is, the followers of SIMON MAGUS the Samaritan!

            The Proof

            Look again at this verse “. . . . which say they are Jews, and are not, but do LIE. . . . ”

            If we would take that expression out of its Biblical context and, for example, place it into an ordinary secular work written in the first century, that expression could IDENTIFY only one people — and especially if a Jew was doing the writing: THE SAMARITANS.

            The Samaritans were the only distinct people in the world in the first and second centuries who said they were Jews, and yet were NOT Jews and they knew it. The Samaritans were LIARS!!

            Notice what Josephus said at the end of the first century — just about the time John wrote Revelation. He is speaking of the Samaritan nation: “When the Jews are in adversity they [the Samaritans] deny that they are kin to them, and THEN THEY CONFESS THE TRUTH; but when they perceive that some good fortune hath befallen them, they immediately PRETEND to have communion with them, saying, that they belong to them,
            and desire their genealogy from the posterity of Joseph, Ephraim, and Manasseh” (Antiquities, XI, 8, 6).

            This is plain history! The Samaritans, if to their advantage, called themselves Jews. But they were LIARS! They knew better. Their own records showed they came from Babylon and adjacent areas. This is exactly what the Old Testament says. They were clearly Gentiles.

            Josephus continues about these Samaritans: “And when they see the Jews in prosperity, they PRETEND they are changed and allied to them, and call them kinsmen, as though they were derived from Joseph, and had by that means an original alliance with them; but when they see them falling into a low condition, they say that they are no way related to them, and that the Jews have no right to expect any kindness or marks of KINDRED from them, but they declare that they are sojourners, that come from OTHER countries”
            (Antiquities, IX, 14, 3).

            Now this should begin to make sense. At the time of Simon Magus it was clearly an advantage to the Samaritan followers of Simon (and Simon himself) to call themselves JEWS. Why? ALL the prophecies stated that Christ and Christianity would come from the Jews. There was no way around this. So Simon went over to the time-honored custom of his Babylonian ancestors and contemporaries of calling themselves Jews WHEN IT WAS TO THEIR ADVANTAGE.

            The Jews, however, never had any real association with these Babylonian imposters. Even when Christ discussed matters with the Samaritan woman at the well, she acknowledged — with amazement because Christ, a Jew, talked with her — that “the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans” (John 4:9). But even though the Samaritans were Gentiles, they consistently lied about their origin when it was profitable to them.

            Notice that the woman at the well carried on the fiction of kinship with the Jews when she said, “Art thou greater than OUR father Jacob, which gave us the well?” (John 4:12). They claimed to be a type of Jew, but they were LIARS.

            This is made plain by Christ Himself when He first sent forth the twelve. He charged them: “Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt. 10:5, 6).

            Pretty plain, isn’t it? The Apostles were to go to the Jews and Israel — but not to the Gentiles or Samaritans. The Samaritans were plainly Gentiles — NOT Jews!

            Review

            With the foregoing in mind, let us now go back to the two identifying scriptures in Revelation. The whole matter becomes so plain when the KEY about Simon Magus and the Samaritan-Christian heresy is realized.

            “Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan [inspired by Satan himself], which say they are Jews, and are NOT, but do LIE; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet” (Rev. 3:9).

            The synagogue of Satan are those “Samaritan-Christians” — the followers of Simon Magus.

            The phrase “which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie” could easily be set off by brackets, for that is the way John intended it. He meant only one people — the “Christian” Samaritans.

            The Other Churches of Revelation Two and Three

            When we now look at the other indications about this heretical system, the Simon Magus (and followers) identification becomes exact. Look, for example, at the Ephesus Church era. Notice the group they had to counter.

            “And thou hast tried them WHICH SAY THEY ARE APOSTLES, and are NOT, and hast found them LIARS” (Rev. 2:2).

            Now, if we let the Bible be our guide in understanding this matter, it shows only one man who heretically sought an APOSTLESHIP and never repented of his desire to have that office — it was Simon Magus. History shows us that Simon established his own “Christianity” with his own apostles.

            And also, notice this important point. Compare the statements about the Samaritans — “Which say they are JEWS, and are NOT, but do LIE” (Rev. 3:9) — with our present Scripture under discussion “which say they are APOSTLES, and are NOT, and hast found them LIARS” (Rev. 2:2).

            The only differences are the words “JEWS” and “APOSTLES.” But — if we get the point at which John is driving — he is saying that these people were calling themselves JEWISH APOSTLES, but that they were all LIARS.

            The Female Counterpart of Simon

            It is well-known that the history of Simon and his religion is connected with the old Babylonian idea of the male and female religious principles. Simon’s Helen (alias Semiramis) figured high in his system.

            It would seem odd if the book of Revelation didn’t mention something of the female side of the false system. However, Christ seems to emphasize the male portion of the system in six of the Church eras — the genders are all masculine. But, when He comes to the Thyatira era, Christ switches remarkably to the female part. Yet, there are not different false systems being discussed, but only the various divisions of the ONE system.

            It is when we come to Thyatira that we find the system described under the symbol of a woman — the woman Jezebel. This analogy was deliberately chosen for many obvious reasons. Reasons so plain that John’s first century readers could not help but comprehend what he was talking about.

            We must remember that John was writing to seven literal Churches all contemporaneous with one another, and he was using language or symbols with which they were acquainted. We, of course, realize the prophetic meaning of the seven churches, but we know that John also had distinct and pertinent messages to the seven congregations which existed in his day. By keeping this obvious fact in mind, the real truth of what John was talking about is made clear to us today.

            Prostitute Prophetess

            First, we notice that John says this “Jezebel” called herself a “prophetess” (Rev. 2:20). There must have been a particular false prophetess which had caused God’s servants to commit fornication and to eat things sacrificed to idols. By looking on this “Jezebel” as having been contemporaneous with all the heresies of the other Churches — and that these heresies were in reality only ONE false system which originated with Simon Magus — we can then easily see that this “Jezebel” can be equated with the “Female Principle” which Simon introduced into his “Christianity.” None other than Simon’s Helen — the reclaimed temple prostitute from Tyre. Helen WAS a prostitute — what better type of person is there who could so expertly “teach” and “seduce My servants to commit fornication,” literally as well as spiritually?

            Simon Magus came in contact with a priestess of Tyre who had been a temple prostitute. The Samaritans worshiped SUCCOTH-BENOTH who was the goddess VENUS. Her devotees continually prostituted themselves. It was their religious duty to do so.

            This woman was overawed by Simon’s demonic power and was persuaded to follow him — to live with him — to become the female principle, the necessary counterpart to his claim as being a type of male deity. Relative to this, the Encyclopaedia Britannica, vol. 25, p. 126, quoting from Justin states: “And almost all the Samaritans and a few among the other nations, acknowledge and adore him as the first god. And one Helen, who went about with him at the time, who before had had her stand in a brothel, they say was the First Thought that was brought into being by him.”

            This is interesting because Justin was himself a Samaritan — born and reared in the country. He certainly knew his people’s native traditions and teachings. What he says agrees exactly with the New Testament revelation of how the Samaritans regarded Simon. They actually called him the “great power of God” (Acts 8:10). It is because of this that they believed him to have creative powers. He himself said he created Helen, his female companion whom he later elevated to a goddess.

            “Irenaenus, Theodoret, and Epiphanius agree in identifying Simon with the Supreme God and Helena with ennoia, the first conception of his mind and his agent in creation” (Dict. of Religion of Ethics, vol. 11, p. 517).

            What blasphemy!! But this is what he taught everywhere he went — and under the guise of Christianity.

            Typically Pagan

            There always had to be the Man and Woman divinities in paganism. Or, to make it plain, Nimrod and Semiramis.

            Now notice what the Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics says about this teaching of Simon which he took to Rome and they accepted: “The original of Simon’s Helena is the moon-goddess of Syria and Babylonia.

            In the Clementine Recognitions Helena is always translated ‘Luna.’ The theory that Simon was accustomed to borrow from paganism IS CORROBORATED by the assertion of the Fathers that he and
            Helena were worshipped by their sect with the attributes of ZEUS and ATHENE and received the cult-title ‘Lord’ and ‘Lady’ (i.e. our Lord and our Lady)” (ibid. p. 518).

            As stated before, it was Simon’s plan to bring about a UNIVERSAL religion under the powerful name of Christianity. Remember that Simon NEVER gave up the Christian name.

            His followers were called Christians. In amalgamating the pagan Babylonian religious beliefs with Christianity, he placed himself at the head — the personification of the chief pagan gods of old, and Helena as his companion in creation, the personification of the female deities. The name Helena for his consort fit his plan exceptionally well.

            “There existed a wide-spread cult of the moon goddess in Syria and Egypt under the name Helene; she was identified with Aphrodite, Atargatis, and the Egyptian Isis, who was after represented with Horns to betoken her relation to the moon. One feature of the myth of Helen can be traced to the very ancient connection of the religion of Osiris with Syria. According to legend, Isis spent ten years at a brothel in Tyre during the course of her wanderings in search of the scattered limbs of her husband. The imprisonment of Helen (Simon’s Helen) is then only a variant of the many myths relating the degradation of the Queen of Heaven” (ibid.).

            How important these observations are, for Osiris was clearly Nimrod and Isis was Semiramis. Thus, Simon Magus said that he had been the power that motivated Nimrod and that Helen was Semiramis — the Queen of Heaven.

            Now let us carefully note that Simon brought his “Female Principle” from the City of TYRE. And who was the original Jezebel — the woman who seduced Israel to worship BAAL? She was the daughter of the king of the Sidonians whose capital city was TYRE. (I Kings 16:31). The original Jezebel was also from TYRE.

            And not only that, Helen claimed herself to be the creation of Simon — that it was Simon who brought her into existence (Ency. Britannica, vol. 25, p. 126). She was, in a sense, the daughter of Simon. But, the original Jezebel WAS THE LITERAL DAUGHTER OF THE KING OF TYRE (I Kings 16:31).

            The Gospel of John

            With all of these things in mind, we can see why John hits hard at the Samaritans in his Gospel, as well as the book of Revelation. He was the only Gospel writer who mentions the incident of the Samaritan woman at the well. He saw it absolutely necessary by his time, for doing so.

            Actually, the whole incident at the well is of relative unimportance if it was simply put there to show us that Christ could perceive that the woman had had five husbands. But there was MUCH more to it than that. If we will carefully notice what the conversation between this Samaritan woman and Christ was, we will see that John is giving the DEATH BLOW to the claims of the “Christian” — Samaritans of his day — the anti-Christ system.

            Since these false Christians DID NOMINALLY REGARD Christ as the (or perhaps better) a founder of the “Christian Church,” John tells them what Jesus informed the Samaritan woman:

            (1) “Ye worship ye know not what” (John 4:22). Christ meant by those words that the Samaritans were NOT worshiping the True God at all. They were worshiping something foreign to the God of the Bible. It was the Devil.

            (2) “We know what we worship: FOR SALVATION IS OF THE JEWS” (v. 22). We can see why John saw the necessity of explaining what Christ really said on this matter. Christ said the JEWS would give forth salvation, NOT the Samaritans — and He was even talking to a Samaritan at the time. John put this here primarily to show that Simon Magus, the Samaritans and his followers, were in COMPLETE error in their grandiose claims.

            And to further emphasize the true Messiahship of Christ — who was a Jew — John records that one whole city even of the Samaritans recognized Jesus as the Christ (vs. 39-42). He was showing that some of the people in Simon’s own home-ground knew that Jesus Christ and the Jews were responsible for salvation.

            John tells us that the woman at the well had FIVE husbands. This is to be taken literally, but isn’t it remarkable that the original Babylonian tribes which became the Samaritans were FIVE in number — and they each brought their false deities with them. Thus, according to the figurative language of the Old Testament, these Samaritans — who claimed to be worshippers of YHVH — were in reality, like the woman at the well, committing adultery with FIVE spiritual “husbands.”

            ——————————————————————————–

          • Mark

            “Right from the very beginning, Satan had his counterfeit “messiah” operating right in the true Messiah’s backyard. His name was Simon Magus or Simon the Sorcerer and this man, and not Simon Peter the Apostle, went on to found the Universal Roman “church.””

            And I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn…

            What you lack in truth you sure made up in volume!

        • Ruach

          @ Donna

          You wrote:

          “I tell you, Brenda, and Ruach, and the writers of this blog – you are seriously mistaken about the Catholic Church. I will keep you all in my prayers, that the Holy Spirit will enlighten you.”

          Have you ever discussed Judaism or Christianity with an Old Testament Jew?

          I know one personally.

          It can be a humbling experience.

          They memorize the Torah (first five books of Moses) by age twelve.

          You would have us believe that the Disciples were catholic…
          worshipping idols and such.

          Just mention going to church on SUNday to an OT Jew!

          Better yet, … go to Israel.
          There are PLENTY of Jewish people there that are more than happy to discuss those two religions with you… PLENTY.

          And when you refer to the Savior as “Jesus” they will have absolutely NOTHING to do with you because they will think of you as STUPID … an IDIOT … and will not tolerate you!

          Whether they believe in Him or not they know His name was not Jesus.

          If you tell them that you observe Christmas … watch out!

          They will spit on you! … Even throw rocks at you!

          You will be considered lower than dirt …And that’s saying a lot in that part of the world!

          That’s where Christianity started and THEY know the history WELL … VERY WELL!

          P.S. –

          Don’t pray for me.

          I do my own praying and it’s not to an IDOL.

          My Father has eyes to see and EARS TO HEAR !

          I told you before …

          YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME !!!

          Good bye ” Donna “

          • Donna

            Ruach,

            What a loving, Christ-like response! Thank you so much! God bless you, too!

            “…for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.” Matthew 12:24

  • living witness

    When all else fails in human strength – become a JW
    Really, Soul’s Without a Savior!
    This groups of pagans is filled with trickery and deceit.
    In the fullness of persuasion they rejoice in each word of contempt for their teachings and doctrines stating clearly everyone else is of the Devil.

    Wow-How can that be – because of a name: Jehovah’s Witness; NOT

    http://mmoutreachinc.com/jehovahs_witnesses/jw_pagan_roots/pagan_roots.html

  • Emery

    It is a shame that you can make comments about something that you know absolutely nothing about, except what other people tell you. You don’t know the Bible, because that’s what Witness believe, and nothing else. You don’t do your own research and go to the Witnesses themselves to see who and what they are. You don’t even look at their web site to see what they are about, you just out of hand make these outrageous remarks dishonestly, and prove your total lack of Christian morals and behavior. That IS shameful. That’s like asking your ex who hates you what you are really like, rather than getting to know you. It’s like asking your worst enemy what you are like, rather than asking you. It’s dishonest. It’s the way Satan would do it, and you do it that way because as the scriptures say, he is your father, so you do the will of your father, the initiator of the lie, the deceiver.

    • Mark

      Can’t you use the Reply on the comments you are actually replying to?

      • Dan (required)

        Mark she doesn’t use out names when addressing us because it’s her way of showing disrespect. I’m not worried about it because I don’t respect her either . SO I stopped using her name. In fact I hope we all stop using It.

        She’s been at it non stop since last night.
        I see her as this old spinster sitting in a dark room trolling!!

  • Emery

    Saint means holy. The term holy applies mainly to God. The word never appeared in the original texts.

    The articles on the ritual killings were in three Canadian newspapers, and reports from the TRC and The International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State (ITCCS). Chief defendants at the 2014 trial were Pope Francis, Jesuit Superior General Adolfo Pachon and Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby.

    Matthew 23:9

    New King James Version (NKJV)

    9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

    Why would I pay attention to early “fathers” in light of Matthew 23:9? It refers to clergy of a religion, not your earthly paternal father. They were NEVER part of the true faith that Jesus taught. If you’re going to attempt to present a position on something, it would be wise to use actual facts and not b.s.

    • Mark

      “The ITCCS operates from an undisclosed central headquarters in Brussels, Belgium, and from regional offices in Vancouver, New York, Dublin, London and Paris.” (from their website, that really sounds legit!)

      See: No, Pope Not Actually Indicted For Child Trafficking, Crimes Against Humanity, Or Fishing Without A License
      http://wonkette.com/543862/no-pope-not-actually-indicted-for-child-trafficking-crimes-against-humanity-or-fishing-without-a-license

      “The International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State (or ITCCS) is a one-man blog that pretends to be a tribunal established to enforce common law. Despite claims of being based in Brussels, the whole thing is written in Canada by Kevin D. Annett, a defrocked United Church of Canada priest.
      The ITCCS came to some notice in the social media sphere in February 2013, when Annett issued a claim that Pope Benedict XVI resigned for fear of arrest on an ITCCS warrant [See Snopes on that — Dok Z] and the hard of thinking forwarded it around as if this actually made sense.
      Previously, Annett had made his money claiming to represent the interests of native Canadians. Until they told him to damn well stop it.”

      From http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/International_Tribunal_into_Crimes_of_Church_and_State

      “At the heart of the “organization” is something Annett calls the International Common Law Court of Justice (ICLCJ), which is rather similar to those “common law courts” sometimes set up by freemen-on-the-land, right down to the “citizen jurors”.[6][7] This court exists only on Annett’s blog.”

      So you believe some made up court? Really?

      Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/popebenedict.asp) found their claim on Pope Benedict false as well

      i.e. you like to quote unsubstantiated claims from crackpot groups to disparage anyone you disagree with.

      For some one who claims to do research this shows your true colors. Your research has all the depth of a parking lot puddle, and is not even as pure. You owe the Pope an apology.

      Why should anyone believe anything you say?

      Please stop spewing crap.

  • Emery

    I am replying to the emails that come from the blog site. Why do you ask?

  • Emery

    Babylon the Great

    Definition: The world empire of false religion, embracing all religions whose teachings and practices do not conform to the true worship of Jehovah, the only true God. Following the Flood of Noah’s day, false religion had its beginning at Babel (later known as Babylon). (Gen. 10:8-10; 11:4-9) In time, Babylonish religious beliefs and practices spread to many lands. So Babylon the Great became a fitting name for false religion as a whole. It includes all religions claiming to be Christian, but are actually sects of Christianity, and not the true worship of Jehovah taught by Jesus.

  • Emery

    Your sophomoric argument is absurd. In Exodus, Jehovah instructed them to construct the tent of meeting, the arc of the testament, the altar, brazier, lamps, and utinsils, with exacting detail. If Jehovah instructs you as to what you make, it isn’t a graven image. Why do you argue about what God said anyway? The command to not make graven images was given to Moses on the tablets Jehovah wrote on with His finger at the same time He commanded Moses and Aaron to make these other items. Now you are arguing that you don’t like what God said to Moses and Aaron. Maybe you should take that up with God Himself. You’re really not making any sense at all.

    • Mark

      Your argument is absurd. God is unchanging and perfect. He hardly would have a double standard. The fact and the argument is that it wasn’t a graven image and you don’t seem to know the difference between what is a graven image and an image.

      I’ve seen how you conduct research and reach conclusions, and it certainly doesn’t follow the scientific method, doesn’t seem to have any method except it must agree with the current standard JW line.

      You also can’t seem to hit Reply to post in the context of the original message. With 38 years or research you should minimally be able to handle that.

  • Emery

    You truly are acting like a deranged person. Your beliefs are Babylonish, and you call others that. You are anything but Christain, and you say others are not Christian. The place where I see this type of behavior most is in the Democrat party of liberal nut cases who say they are progressive. They cannot debate, abhor facts, and change the subject and name call at every opportunity. They are mindless drones who cannot think for themselves, but must rely on others for their opinions and beliefs, much like you do with your Christendom/Babylonish religion. You insist on believing a political work, instead of the correctly translated scriptures. You insist that even though God said that interpretation belongs only to Him, you must interpret and believe the interpretations of others. You add to and take away from prophecy even though it is forbidden to do so in the last couple paragraphs of the Revelation to John. I can’t imagine what you expect to gain from such vile behavior, except to further the misleading work of Satan. You are doing the will of your father, the father of the lie.

    • Dan (required)

      Emery! I guess your taking to me, but my post it way up there^
      Let me explain. Each post has a (reply) right under it!
      Use it! That way each of us will know who your talking to.
      I thought you were just being disrespectful for not using the (reply),but as it turns out ! Your a little slow!

      As for your response. Why do I have to be a Democrat. But, then again I don’t even know if your talking to me. We all seem to be using your name. You seem to be unable to extend that courtesy.
      Why are you so confused as to our differences? Your not reading from the same book as we are EMERY.

      • Emery

        I have quoted scriptures from three Bibles, one of which you use. All three say the same thing.

        • Dan (required)

          Why would you assume I don’t use the other 2?

      • MRH

        “I thought you were just being disrespectful for not using the (reply),but as it turns out ! Your a little slow!”

        @Dan: It’s NTEB’s email design fault, as Reply on email just acts like Comments in blog email.. try it yourself! Emery needs to click ‘commented’ (right of name) instead, to be directed to individual comments 😉

        ————————————————————
        Emery commented on Pope Francis Says Christians Do Not Exist Outside The Roman Catholic Church.

        in response to nowtheendbegins:

        Pope Francis said that people cannot be Christians without the Church, explaining that Christian identity is rooted in it and that believers cannot stand alone.

        I am replying to the emails that come from the blog site. Why do you ask?

        Reply Comments
        ————————————————————-

        P.S. Same glitch was with old blog design, as email format unchanged. Maybe NTEB could look into fixing things with email notification?

        • Dan (required)

          Mark it’s been working for me

          • Dan (required)

            However, I can tell when typing my responses there’s a problem. So your right on that. The design totally fell apart at the end of 2013 and there was no more reply. Remeber that

          • MRH

            However when I click ‘commented’ in blog email, it sends me direct to your comment 🙂

            P.S. Either an email issue, or design glitch. Though you claim no such problem?

        • Emery

          It appears that your “slow” comment only speaks to your personality and how it is lacking in respect. There is a software problem with this blog. You make a LOT of assumptions that are rediculous and rude and disparaging. You seem to be pretty self righteous also. If you ever wanted to act more like a follower of the Word of God, Proverbs would be extremely helpful to you. It has a lot on behavior and the right way to act toward others. Seems you so far have not studied it at all. I for one would appreciate it if you would, and I am sure others you interact with might appreciate it as well.

  • Emery

    You tout the King James so much, it’s a natural assumption.

    • Dan (required)

      Paul if you go to the top of these posts. I said the same thing. The title is sensational. So I was interested. But, after reading the article I was disappointed. I argued with the NTEB staff about it. THANK YOU for making my point.

      The Title is misleading!

      • MRH

        “The Title is misleading!”

        Dan, how is the title misleading? The article clearly states at bottom the following 😉

        —————————————————————
        “During Mass on Monday, Francis also theorized about alien life forms, and suggested that even Martians should be welcomed to be baptized as well.

        “If – for example – tomorrow an expedition of Martians came, and some of them came to us, here … Martians, right? Green, with that long nose and big ears, just like children paint them … And one says, ‘But I want to be baptized!’ What would happen?” Pope Francis remarked, and told the audience that baptism is open to everyone. He also recalled the words of Peter: “If then God gave them the same gift He gave to us when we came to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?” source – Christian Post”
        —————————————————————-

        P.S. I wasn’t at the Monday Mass, nor could I find any videos of things, only varied text web news reports, so who really knows?

        • Mark

          What if the Pope has a sense of humor and this was just fun banter and really has nothing serious to say about little green men with big ears like kids paint them? But was made to make a broader point spoken by Peter “If then God gave them the same gift He gave to us when we came to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?”

          • MRH

            Maybe, but I suspect there’s much more to it all than that 😉

            P.S. Do you not notice that popes often wear an occult fish crown, carry a twisted Jesus on on crooked cross, and sit on a throne with an inverted cross. And that the entire Vatican is steeped in the occult, just like with Washington DC? If you don’t, then you might consider researching things 🙂

          • Mark

            Do you notice the cross you are referring to was only Pope St. John Paul II’s. Its not a crown its a mitre. The exact origin isn’t clearly known but may date to the 700s. It is thought to have developed from possibly from a helmet. It is made of white linen and it folds flat.

            Why is it every thing with many of you is occult? Is the Christian fish symbol occult in your eyes?

            It is funny that you accuse the Catholic Church of being occult when it is the largest charitable, missionary, health providing organization in the world. It stands in staunch opposition to abortion and other evils etc. Scripture says about Satan that a house divided can not stand, and the Catholic Church has and will stand to the end of time.

            Now DC I can agree with….

          • MRH

            “Why is it every thing with many of you is occult?”

            @Mark: You don’t know the half of it obviously 🙁

            P.S. All major Christian religious orders are tied into the occult. I know as I’ve studied things in-depth. And it’s not just in religion either, but also with government. And as well the satanic movie and music industries. And even the major secular organizations and corporations, so much that it’s scary 🙁

        • Dan (required)

          Mark reread the title (Christians don’t exist outside the Catholic Church) Then read the article. The pope never states the Catholic church.(But NTEB feels it’s implied) The pope however does say Christians cannot exist outside of the (Church). Which is inclusive to all denominations. The title is sensational unnecessary.
          It’s not a big deal brother. I just felt the NTEB staff didn’t need to do that. Are you aware that the pope is about to ride through the Palestinian Authority in a topless vehicle before he goes to Israel ?

          • Mark

            Hi Dan,

            I agree that they were over the top.

            All truly Christian branches do sprout from the same tree ultimately. And the more is given one the more that is expected (Luke 12: 46 – 48(mostly 48))

            46
            then that servant’s master will come on an unexpected day and at an unknown hour and will punish him severely and assign him a place with the unfaithful.
            47
            That servant who knew his master’s will but did not make preparations nor act in accord with his will shall be beaten severely;
            48
            and the servant who was ignorant of his master’s will but acted in a way deserving of a severe beating shall be beaten only lightly. Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more.

            The more we know and understand the more that is expected of us. I am certainly praying for him. It is a shame how few Christians are left in the Holy land.

          • MRH

            “The pope never states the Catholic church.”

            Dan, even so, the Catholic Church believes it’s the only true church. Just as other sects (Mormon, JW, SDA, etc) believe they are the only true church. Trust me on this, as I’ve received inside knowledge from devout members of all such Christian cults. And so NTEB is correct on matter 😉

            P.S. Guess NTEB fixed blog issue? 🙂

  • Isaiah 14:9-11
    9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
    10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
    11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

    All these people in hell are actually alive !
    They can speak ! It’s a miracle isn’t it 
    emery ! They even all gather together to
    speak to Satan, “saying art thou also 
    become as week as we ” looks like we 
    have eternal life after all ! Jesus wasn’t 
    Lying ! Even if you change the meaning 
    of hell to grave, or anything you like,
    they are all still alive !!!and they All can 
    SPEAK ! Now the rest of them, the ones
    who chose to believe in the blood of the 
    Lamb, the real Christians, they  get to 
    spend their eternity with our great God
    and saviour Jesus Christ ! What an 
    Awesome God !!!!,!

    • Emery

      Psalm 146:4

      King James Version (KJV)

      4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

      Psalm 146:4

      American Standard Version (ASV)

      4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.

      Psalm 146:4

      1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

      4 His breath departeth, and he returneth to his earth; then his [a]thoughts perish.

      Psalm 146:4

      Wycliffe Bible (WYC)

      4 The spirit of him shall go out, and he shall turn again into his earth; in that day all the thoughts of them shall perish. (The breath of your prince, or of your leader, shall go out of him, and he shall return to the dust; and on that day all his thoughts shall perish.)

      I haven’t changed the meaning of anything. The original texts do not say hell. They do not support immortal soul. They do not support your skewed interpretation.

    • Emery

      Ezekiel 18:4

      King James Version (KJV)

      4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

    • Emery

      I would like to know how a soul can die if it is immortal? You are proffering a NON SCRIPTURAL teaching. The soul is NOT immortal. Soul and life are synonyms in the Bible.
      Ezekiel 18:4

      King James Version (KJV)

      4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

      Psalm 146:4

      King James Version (KJV)

      4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

      Psalm 146:4

      American Standard Version (ASV)

      4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.

      Psalm 146:4

      1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

      4 His breath departeth, and he returneth to his earth; then his [a]thoughts perish.

      Psalm 146:4

      Wycliffe Bible (WYC)

      4 The spirit of him shall go out, and he shall turn again into his earth; in that day all the thoughts of them shall perish. (The breath of your prince, or of your leader, shall go out of him, and he shall return to the dust; and on that day all his thoughts shall perish.)

  • MRH

    “Mark it’s been working for me”

    @Dan: When I click ‘Reply’ in blog email, it opens to bottom of comments on the blog 🙁

    • Dan (required)

      Wow ! Yeah I see what you mean! Your way down here from my original comment (Mark it works fine for me) Bummer.

      • MRH

        Dan, it seems to also be the case with Miss Emery the blabbermouth JW coo coo bird? But obviously she doesn’t care, though she’s been continually asked to Reply as proper, plus I posted instructions, but she probably didn’t bother to read? Anyway, JW or not, she’s whacko. I know JW’s myself, and they are at least polite, not out to start wars like evil minded Miss Emery 😉

        P.S. So I guess the email Reply issue is email program related? Oh well, ‘commented’ works so that’s what I use 🙂

  • Emery

    You truly are a brainwashed individual. The Italian courts have convicted many of the past popes, including Francis, for murder and child trafficing. In the last two years alone, there have been 6 such convictions. You are a drone with no thoughts of your own regarding Catholicism. If the Pope told you to cut your own throat, you probably would do it. The Pope, as all of them have been, is a servant of Satan and not a servant of God. He assumes glory for himself that only belongs to God. He runs a political and monetary based organization that has little to do with the scriptures, or anything scriptural. In light of your vehement defense of them, you as well are Satan’s servant. And it’s not unwittingly that you perform that service to Satan. You are doing it overtly. Matthew 24:14

    Ezekiel 18:4

    King James Version (KJV)

    4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

    • Mark

      I pointed out you pick some blogger who sets up his own kangaroo court and I’m the one who is brainwashed? That is rich.

      What Italian court convicted Pope Francis? When I look I see more non-verifiable accusations but no verifiable convictions other than your blogger court.

      I wouldn’t think calumny on your part would be a virtue even in the JWs. But then again calumny seems to be your strength.

  • Emery

    I owe the pope nothing but to avoid his religion at all costs. He is a murder and a servant of Satan, as are you. It is your personality and intelligence that has all the depth of a parking lot puddle. You don’t realize that your adherence to Satan will keep you from the Kingdom of the Heavens. It will keep you from being resurrected into a paradise Earth. Only the righteous will live through Armageddon, and only the righteous will live after the judgement day or age. You will not be included in either of those groups for your many sins against God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. You will get your current life as your only reward. No stored up treasure in the Kingdom of the Heavens for you, you have forsaken any claim to it. Your only other reward is to share in Babylon the Great’s plagues and punishments.

    • Mark

      Matthew 7:1-3 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?”

      I’m sure God can hardly wait for your next proclamation.

      Calumny really is your strength.

  • Emery

    The Supreme Court of Cassation, the highest court in Italy. Multiple times.

    I don’t have any court.

    I am not aware of a blogger court anywhere in the world. Is that your own invention?

    I haven’t made ANY accusations, merely stated facts. Just because YOU, the sovereign ruler of your own delusional mind, don’t like facts, doesn’t mean they aren’t facts. Simply because you cannot or will not do your own research into the convictions or the Satanic actions of all popes and the Catholic church doesn’t mean those haven’t taken place. It only means you are lazy and are a drone of Catholicism. Whatever they say you are to think, you obediently think. No independent thought outside of your abrasiveness and annoying personality. Maybe if you actually put some honest effort into looking into these things before you spout verbal crap about them (oh, but then you’re not honest), then you could objectively learn something about the false religion that you are a member of. Remember that in Galations 5:19-21 the works of the flesh are listed. Divisions and sects are included. Involvement in them prevents one from inheriting the Kingdom of the Heavens. Catholicism is a sect, a division of Christianity. Not the original. Therefore you revile the original congregation that Jesus created while alive on Earth. He said that the world hates him, so the world will hate us as well. He sure was right. You are of the world, even though Jesus commanded us to be “no part of the world”. You share in the world’s desires, and so will share in her plagues and punishments. Jesus said “get out of her (Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion) unless you want to share in her plagues.”

    • Mark

      A google search “The Supreme Court of Cassation italy Papal conviction” of course can not find even one.

      Try to back up what you say with facts.

      As for the blogger court your International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State, that guy in Canada I gave you the sources about. The only reference you gave to back up your Calumny and slander. That self proclaimed kangaroo “court”. The one you based your false accusations against the Pope on that on review has no facts.

      And your a drone of the Jehovah’s witnesses (I will leave the w in witness lower case just like in scripture for you).

      I have looked up and shown contemporaneous sources that document both the Name of the Catholic Church as well as its structure. You claimed it didn’t exist to nearly 300 years after its first known printed use (107 AD).

      You are to lazy to back up anything except with your own circular arguments.

      I like how you try to end it as a victim. I don’t hate you, but I certainly can’t trust you. Your scholarship is abysmal, you are happy to settle with errors and lies for others.

      • Emery Richards

        Mark;
        In the instances you cite here, you have shown yourself to have not behaved honestly. I’ve made no false accusations, only stated facts. I never accuse. Don’t engage in calumny. I have no interest in destroying anyone’s character, or in making accusations of any type. I only state truth and facts. I wish the same could be said for you, but it’s not possible.

        No such “drone” of God’s witnesses exist, nor have they ever.

        Printing didn’t exist in 107 a.d., only hand written scrolls and parchments, so you again use falsehoods claiming they’re facts, when clearly, they couldn’t possibly be.

        Not posting what you call “backing up” isn’t lazy. I have no circular arguments. I am not here to do your research for you. If you choose to not research, or to do so dishonestly, it’s your mistake, not mine.

        I have never posted herein any errors or lies. My scholarship is none of your business, but I’ve spent four and a half decades researching scripture, translating scrolls, and comparing scripture to scripture. It’s clear you haven’t even come close to ten percent of that amount of research. That shows you engage in massive hypocrisy.

        • Mark

          When you say “you have shown yourself to have not behaved honestly” what you seem to mean is “you did not agree with what I posted with the intent of making it look real”.

          When I said “Printed” I only meant it as in written, not as in on a printing press. Anyway it still dates to 107 AD and it is still known by scholars.

          If you post something as a fact in either a public or personal statement then your scholarship is my business and anyone who reads it and gives it any thought. WHo cares if you have spent four and a half decades “researching” scripture etc. if you methodes are shoddy and your conclusions are wrong. Time is not the measure of correctness.

          • Emery Richards

            Mark;
            When I post something, what I posted is what I mean, not what you want to tell me that I mean. Under NO circumstances is my “scholarship” any business of yours. Not even if I make a statement personally or publicly. You see, they are included in “under no circumstances”. I hope that clears up your foggy mind. Not ONE of my methods (not methodes) is shoddy, and NONE of my “conclusions” are wrong. None of them. They simply are the truth contained within God’s word, the Bible. You cannot understand truth, because truth is foreign to you. You don’t recognize truth if you never engage in it.

            I find it amazing that you spend SO MUCH EFFORT in researching ways to disparage God’s truth, and God’s witnesses, but REFUSE to spend ANY time whatsoever in researching God’s word, and learning it, and what He has to say to us. If you put a fraction of the time into God’s word, as you do disparaging Him and His arrangements, you would slowly begin to understand His word. But for some unknown reason, you refuse to learn God’s word. You seem obsessed with putting down those who serve Him in truth and righteousness. You search out ANY WAY to persecute them and His Earthly organization. And I believe you think you’re doing right, but God sees all, and sees into your heart. He KNOWS what and how you think, and from what I’ve seen in your posts, He doesn’t think much of what He sees there.

  • Emery

    Typical response from a stupid one. Stating facts and making observations is not judging. In saying calumny is a trait of mine, YOU are judging. You display no knowledge of what judging is, and have no fondness for facts or truth, as your comments clearly demonstrate.

  • Emery

    God commanded the Annointed to be His witnesses. He gave a prophecy that the Good News of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited Earth, and then the end will come in Matthew 24:14. The continuing congregation of Christians that Jesus began, still exists to this day. No organization can buy a building, title a car, publish materials, or any of the other things that involve preaching that good news throughout the Earth without becoming a legal entity. The legal entity, when it first became necessary, was International Bible Students Association. In 1931 it was changed to be more in line with God’s commands and was changed to Jehovah’s Witnesses. All in the original true faith that Jesus taught are required to preach this good news.

    Using witness as a noun doesn’t require capitalization. Using it as a pronoun does. You don’t even have knowledge of English? I shall add that to the list of things you know nothing about: Scriptures; God; Jesus; English. There. Anything else you would like to add to your list? I’d be happy to add to it for you, just tell me what you want to be credited with (or without, as the case may be).

    • Mark

      You indicated that the use was in regards to your group. It would be proper to capitalize it then. If it isn’t in reference to any one formal group name, and it isn’t, then it is fine as a lower case w.

      “In 1931 it was changed to be more in line with God’s commands and was changed to Jehovah’s Witnesses” therefore allows you to credit yourselves as existing pre-1800’s even with out any outside reference other than the use of the word in scripture. Very nice.

  • Emery

    In order to use calumny in that way, the subject of your derision should be malicious and false. My comments are neither. So, the you don’t know the meaning of the new word you learned today.

    • Mark

      Like the kangaroo court conviction you accused the Pope of? Not a real court Emery.

      I hardly learned that word today.

      You are guilty of slander.

      Not planning to be in the 144,000 are you.

      • Emery Richards

        Mark;
        The international court of human rights isn’t a “kangaroo court”. It is a real, legal entity, existing with the cooperation of many countries governments.

        • Mark

          What you stated was (and I quote) the “The International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State (ITCCS).” on 21 May 2014 at 3:24 pm.

          I then replied on 21 May 2014 at 5:59 pm with:

          ““The ITCCS operates from an undisclosed central headquarters in Brussels, Belgium, and from regional offices in Vancouver, New York, Dublin, London and Paris.” (from their website, that really sounds legit!)

          See: No, Pope Not Actually Indicted For Child Trafficking, Crimes Against Humanity, Or Fishing Without A License
          http://wonkette.com/543862/no-pope-not-actually-indicted-for-child-trafficking-crimes-against-humanity-or-fishing-without-a-license

          “The International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State (or ITCCS) is a one-man blog that pretends to be a tribunal established to enforce common law. Despite claims of being based in Brussels, the whole thing is written in Canada by Kevin D. Annett, a defrocked United Church of Canada priest.
          The ITCCS came to some notice in the social media sphere in February 2013, when Annett issued a claim that Pope Benedict XVI resigned for fear of arrest on an ITCCS warrant [See Snopes on that — Dok Z] and the hard of thinking forwarded it around as if this actually made sense.
          Previously, Annett had made his money claiming to represent the interests of native Canadians. Until they told him to damn well stop it.”

          From http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/International_Tribunal_into_Crimes_of_Church_and_State

          “At the heart of the “organization” is something Annett calls the International Common Law Court of Justice (ICLCJ), which is rather similar to those “common law courts” sometimes set up by freemen-on-the-land, right down to the “citizen jurors”.[6][7] This court exists only on Annett’s blog.”

          So you believe some made up court? Really?

          Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/popebenedict.asp) found their claim on Pope Benedict false as well

          i.e. you like to quote unsubstantiated claims from crackpot groups to disparage anyone you disagree with.

          For some one who claims to do research this shows your true colors. Your research has all the depth of a parking lot puddle, and is not even as pure. You owe the Pope an apology.

          Why should anyone believe anything you say?

          Please stop spewing crap.”

          So in reality it is not a Kangaroo court, that would require a bigger budget and real facilities. BTW as I said then, “Please stop spewing crap.”

  • Emery

    You are a liar. Your only interest is in derision. I gave you clues to answers to things you are mistaken about, and you haven’t the integrity to honestly look into them. Your flaw, not mine.

  • Emery

    Are you trying to say that the scrolls mysteriously came into existence when a “religion” created the Bible? I think not. The scrolls were copied thousands of times, by hand by scribes, and sent from congregation to congregation, and from one disciple to another disciple, and so on for a long time. Did Moses hang around until a religion came along, and then write the books he wrote, so they could be included in a Bible? How rediculous can you actually be?

    The annointed co-heirs with Christ began with the disciples of Jesus. They continued through the ages to promulgate Jesus’ teachings, and in our day are Jehovah’s Witnesses. The disciples had no part in creating your so called cannon of scripture, but they were inspired by God to put it to pen and paper. God is the author, not a church. Not YOUR church. No human is the author, only the hand that was used by God to actually write and copy it. I can’t believe you actually said something so absurd. Unbelievable!

    • Mark

      Yes they were copied 1000’s of times by the ancient Jews and Catholic monks etc. (not Jws). But the cannon was finally settled by the Catholic Church. Maybe you didn’t notice but the Bible does not contain in its included books its own index. The Catholic Church, the one that really existed, under the guidance of the Holy spirit settled on the cannon of scripture over the course of several years.

      Council of Hippo, created the list of the Old and New Testament books in 393. The Council of Carthage, confirmed the list of canonical books in 397. It has been set since that time. And no the Jws were not there nor were they involved.

  • Emery

    Have you been inhaling something you shouldn’t inhale?

    If you haven’t just learned calumny, the word, why don’t you know the meaning and usage of the word?

    What makes you think any human can “plan” to be included in the 144,000? Where does God say that we have that ability or right? It is HIS choosing of the first fruits of the 12 tribes, no one else can make that choice. There are only about 6,000 of them left on Earth right now, and I am not one of them. I detect that you think you are. Pretty sick.

    • Mark

      “Have you been inhaling something you shouldn’t inhale?” well its true that most of what you write stinks.

      “I detect that you think you are” you shouldn’t assume.

  • Emery

    You seem to have the same problem with the word slander.

    • Mark

      Heaven knows you seem to be the expert.

  • Emery

    Since you are so lazy, a liar, and a jerk, can’t you find somewhere else to demonstrate those traits? All of your assertions are false, as are all of your other assertions. I can only guess, but you are probably this haughty and abhorrent in all areas of your life, and not just your personality on this blog. I hope it’s not the case, but the evidence sure points that way. You spend a few minutes in a cursory look at a few things, and claim definitively that you’ve seen all evidence that exists. That’s quite dishonest, as all of your other comments have been.

    • Mark

      There you go again, where did I “claim definitively that” I’ve ” seen all evidence that exists.”? You post all kinds of unsubstantiated comments.

      It is obvious you don’t like being caught in your own lies and misconception, so stop slandering, look before you leap and back up what you say with substantive content.

      If I was lazy I wouldn’t have spent as much time on this as I have.

      As for being a liar, please show one in context showing that I actually meant to deceive.

      • Emery

        It was less than an hour between my comment and your reply. That’s not very much time at all, and the sources you list are only the ones you pick and choose to make your false claim.

        • Mark

          Which does avoid the question, where did I “claim definitively that” I’ve ” seen all evidence that exists.”?

          You constantly make unsupportable statements, then try to avoid your own statements.

          Time in and of itself is not a measure of quality. It took you until today to respond and you added nothing of substance to the conversation.

  • Emery

    Expert in the use of a word? That’s a new one. Are you attempting humor, or just not thinking clearly?

  • Emery

    The Christian Congregation began when Jesus began it. He wasn’t walking the Earth in the 1800’s, was he? Have I missed something that big? The organization known as The Christian Witnesses of Jehovah IS the continuing congregation that was begun by Jesus. The name International Bible Students Association and Jehovah’s Witnesses began in the late 18900’s for the first name, and 1931 for the latter. Can’t function without being a legal entity, in a legalistic world, and buy buildings, build buildings, produce literature and becoming the single largest producers of Bibles on the planet, now can they? Can’t be the only organization on Earth obeying the command to “preach the good news of the Kingdom throughout the entire inhabited Earth” either, can they?

    Now you make an interesting assertion also. I never once SAID I was a Jehovah’s Witness, nor did I refute it. It was you and a couple others who made that assertion. I described the organization accurately though. You DO make a lot of assumptions, and making assumptions as a rule usually gets one into trouble and makes one a liar, and at the least causes one to make large mistakes.

    I have, in fact, studied ALL so called “Christian” religions for 38 years, in detail. I have engaged in studies with all of them, with a few exceptions, and have yet to find one that is honest, and that adheres to the scriptures, and that produces accurate translations of the Bible like the Witnesses have always done. All the other “religions”, and Jehovah’s Witnesses are not a religion, are so far off in the understanding of scripture that it is truly remarkable. It is truly Satan’s greatest effort in the misleading of the entire inhabited Earth. When I studied all of the non-God believing religions, none of them were nearly as bad as Christendom. Not even the pagan religions. Christendom is the bloodiest and most deceitful group of people on the entire planet, throughout the entire history of mankind.

    • Mark

      “making assumptions as a rule usually gets one into trouble and makes one a liar, and at the least causes one to make large mistakes.” I agree assumptions can get one into trouble, but that is not a lie unless one knows it is false. A lie is a deliberate falsehood, not a mistake.

      You like the word “All” and other absolutes. Absolutes also get people into trouble. And the use of absolutes can very well and often are a lie.

      Can you truly even exhaustively list ALL religions?

      • Emery

        What possible reason would I want to list all religions for? It is a total waste of time. I have studied all mainstream religions over the past 38 years. I’ve engaged in their studies with them, and studied their doctrine as well. Not a one had a clue. I remain in the original faith that Jesus taught, as I have always, at least since I was 19 years old.

        • Brenda Murphy

          1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

        • Mark

          You said “I have, in fact, studied ALL so called “Christian” religions for 38 years, in detail. I have engaged in studies with all of them,”, you even went so far as to capitalize the word “ALL”. So I simply asked you to once again back up what you stated. And you once again have failed to do so.

          The truth is not in you.

      • Emery Richards

        Mark;
        Your post about absolutes seems to make you a dedicated hypocrite. You have used absolutes CONSTANTLY, and claim others should not.

    • Mark

      Emery I understand why you stated “I never once SAID I was a Jehovah’s Witness”, having read what you have posted about it, I wouldn’t admit to it either.

  • Emery

    The Catholic Church is also responsible for more deaths than any other religion in the world. In the history of the world. They have supported most every war that ever happened since their inception. The scriptures tell us to be no part of war or politics. The Vatican is one of the most political entities that exist. They are the most satanic religion that exists, that claims to be Christian. They have the most pagan rituals included in their religion on the planet. Kill one, help two is not a vindication by a long stretch.

    • Mark

      Once again unsubstantiated comments with no supporting facts.

  • Emery

    Mark 12:23-27
    23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
    24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
    25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
    26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

    27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

  • Dan (required)

    Mark I see you were up late arguing with the witness(chuckle). You see they like going door to door bothering people on the weekends. But, now hey they can get online and bother us.

    Christianity has flourished because of G-d’s blessing! (Fact)
    However their cult has not!
    I have had my eye on the pope, so the articles title is what brought me back to NTEB. I’m glad to see the reply button is back at least it works some of the time.
    What miss emery doesn’t want to admit is that after all of the many years the JW cult is still so very insignificant!
    They’ve even been overshadowed by Scientology (laughing)
    I see you got miss witness to use the word (CRAP) Wow you must have got her really mad(Good one)

    • Mark

      Its not so much that I want her to get mad, as I want her to objectively think. She obviously thinks she is thinking! I wouldn’t wish her any harm, but her calumny and slander is harmful to others and in a more important sense to herself.

      We all know God is love, but God is not an emotion. I wonder if she can define what Love is, if she could she might far better understand God. If God weren’t a trinity he would be vain, like Satan. Love can only be expressed by giving freely, and God loved before time itself. Jesus Glorifies the Father and the Holy Spirit, The Father glorifies the Son and Holy Spirit, and the Holy spirit glorifies the Father and the son. There is no ego in the trinity like that of Satan.

      Has been a long time, but I am more than happy to invite the door to door missionaries in when they come.

    • Mark

      Exactly, as an example if I break a window and ask my wife for forgiveness she will forgive me (at least so far!), but there is still damage to the window. Forgiveness is not the same as fixing the glass. Penance is fixing the glass.

      Is that a draft I feel? 🙂

  • Emery

    It is amazing the huge amount of self righteous indignation, innacurate information, and Babylonish beliefs everyone I’ve commented with and had comments from, on this blog. I haven’t discussed with anyone yet on this site who doesn’t display the mark of the beast. The false teachings of Satan’s influences, and the total embracing of the things of this world. It’s truly amazing.

    • Brenda Murphy

      You are what you eat, Emery–
      Stop eating of the JW doctrine, it’s making you one nasty person!

  • Emery

    Well, at least you’re partially right on one of your points. No disciple of Christ was EVER any kind of clergy at all. Ever.

  • Emery

    At no time in the original scriptural texts was a word used that can be translated into any language into the meaning “ghost”. It’s Holy Spirit. Pneumos. Greek for breath or spirit, NOT ghost. There is no holy ghost at all. That’s a fabrication of Christendom, not a teaching of Christ or his Father.

    • Brenda Murphy

      So what is a spirit, Emery?……aww….a ghost.

  • Emery

    It’s amazing that someone who has never used, held, or compared a NWT with another translation, can be such an authority. Even though scholars throughout the world hail the NWT as the most accurate translation when compared to the original texts. They say there are many discrepancies with all three KJV Bibles, as well as the Douay-Rheims and a couple others. The Bible you seem to be so in love with hasn’t been researched and compared with original texts for an extremely long time, in fact it never really was when it was created. But, oh, I hope I am not offending the world’s foremost authority on something she has never held in her hands or used.

    • Brenda Murphy

      Emery,
      Thank you for letting us use the King James Bible to refute your Jehovah’s Witness FALSE doctrine. It was much appreciated.
      The Lord does work in mysterious ways.

    • Mark

      More unsubstantiated claims. What is it about you making unsupported comments? You state: “Even though scholars throughout the world hail the NWT as the most accurate translation when compared to the original texts”

      So what scholars? Are they all Jws? Who are they and what are their qualifications? Were they jury members of your favorite kangaroo court?

  • Emery

    Get behind me Satan. You speak the words of man, not of God.

    • living witness

      Can Satan cast out using this Force?
      Really, How powerful the force is Today Emery!
      I’d tell you to get lost, but I can’t-You Are!

      Jesus, God manifest in the flesh is your only hope.

    • Mark

      I suspected you and Satan were on speaking terms.

  • Emery

    There is no such thing as JW doctrine. So not bowing down to you, your majesty, makes me nasty?

    • Brenda Murphy

      No, don’t bow to me, bow to God!
      You are nasty in the words you use, but you can’t see that, I guess.

  • Emery

    Ghosts do not exist. Is Jehovah a ghost? Is Jesus a ghost? Are the 144,000 ghosts? No, what people claim are ghosts are actually Satan’s demons. Pneumos cannot be translated in to ghost. Is air a ghost? In order for ghosts to be real, immortal soul needs to be real and it is not.

  • Emery

    What church, church leaders, or pastor are you talking about? There is no JW church, church leaders, or pastor. It would be a good idea to know what you are talking about, before you talk about it.

    Jesus was baptized with his Father’s Holy Spirit, as were the disciples of his. It is that Holy Spirit or active force of God’s that enables the miracles to happen. It is the same force that God used to create you and me and the entire universe. You can even learn about that from YOUR translation of the Bible.

  • Emery

    In the Bible, the only ones who spoke “in tongues” were spirit annointed Disciples. Are you saying, that after all these years, you are the first to be spirit annointed to speak in tongues? Those are demons tricking you into it, not God’s active force Holy Spirit.

    • Brenda Murphy

      I wish you would hit the reply button when you talk to a specific person, you are all over this blog and no one knows who you are talking to!

      You are coming close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit–God does not change, therefore His Spirit is at work today- it is the Spirit that convicts a person of their sins.
      Emery–

      If I were you, I’d quit while you can.
      It is dangerous to come against the Holy Spirit!

  • living witness

    The tongue can be very illuminating!

    Emery 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by hell.

    Since the Bible is not for private interruption; God’s will made know to each of us as individuals. But only made know through the Administrator, God, The Lord the Holy Spirit. That’s why you must be Born of The Holy Spirit. God of course being the most accountable being in all creation, took it upon Himself, as he spoke of Himself (The Word) in the Old Testament – Isaiah 53 as the payment made in full, thousands of years before the person of Faith’s Substance hoped for became the Evidence of a seen person (Jesus) the Word birthed forth.

    He did it, just as He spoke it, and finished it. Isa 55:4 “Behold, I have made him a witness to the peoples, A leader and commander for the peoples. ” The True Jehovah’s Witness is Jesus, God in the Flesh”

    Isa 55:11 So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.

    The Word is God!

  • living witness

    Emery the entire point of focus for you is JW’s darkened message; there is no hope there-in, no faith, no unity of the Spirit, no encouragement.

    Folks for the greater part of this conversation, and at different points of growth in Christ have; with some humor, and tolerance, long suffering as in reading the bilge of a cult mind set given you the Gospel of Salvation by Grace through Faith in Christ Jesus.

    Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world.
    Rom 1:9 For God, whom I serve in my spirit in the preaching of the gospel of His Son, is my witness as to how unceasingly I make mention of you,
    Rom 1:10 always in my prayers making request, if perhaps now at last by the will of God I may succeed in coming to you.
    Rom 1:11 For I long to see you so that I may impart some spiritual gift to you, that you may be established;
    Rom 1:12 that is, that I may be encouraged together with you while among you, each of us by the others faith, both yours and mine.

    If you won’t allow the Wonderful Holy Spirit to birth Christ in you, then you will remain in the deluded mental condition you were found to be in as this conversation opened. God has stretched His hand out to you; you continue to as it were “slap it away”

    All are wrong – Only Emery has the truth. Awful wrong, dead wrong!

    Only The Shed Blood of Jesus, God manifest, and he that walked among His own; He can and want’s to recover you. But it’s up to you

    If you treasure in your heart teachings and doctrines of devils, then you will find out where that treasure is laid in a final deposit.
    Jesus is Lord, and Christ
    It is Finished.

  • Emery

    You seem to be confusing yourself with me.

  • Emery

    You don’t seem to have a sense of what that scripture actually means. Typical Babylonish religion adherent.

    • living witness

      That’s to bad, as you are laid up where ever with your computer, you laugh off all these folks – but i can’t remember you telling any of us how to get saved in simplicity:) here’s your chance!

      Emery, how do you lead me into eternal salvation since I know not?

      • Emery Richards

        Living Witness;
        If you are interested in salvation, you should engage in learning what the entire will of God is, and perform it. To learn what that will is, one must do considerable research. It requires using an accurate translation of God’s word, which is close to impossible to find. God’s will is extensive, but it’s not burdensome. Since no religion of Christendom teaches what the will of God is, in it’s entirety, they are not a very good place to start. Part of God’s will for us is that we have NOTHING to do with religions of man. His will is to adhere to His word. It’s how He speaks to us. Christendom, if one did God’s will in it’s entirety, would not exist.

  • Dan (required)

    You guys still talking to this crazy person?

  • Emery

    Interesting. If someone believes God, and what Jesus taught, and not what you say then he must be crazy huh? What does that make you? Someone with visions of grandeur? Someone who fancies himself as equal to God, or to his son Jesus? You have some cojones, that’s for sure. Too bad you are clueless. I choose to believe the scriptures, and what they say, rather than some guess (interpretation) as to what they mean.

  • Emery

    Among your many mistakes, you state that Jehovah’s Witnesses have are a religion, have a church, have doctrine and clergy. None of those things are true. You show your ignorance in stating that they do. You show that you comment on things about which you have NO knowledge. Impressive!

    • Mark

      So you are not the church founded by Jesus by your own admission since he said in Mat 15:18 “And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,* and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.”

      No Church, so not even close to what you claim to be.
      Since the Jehovah’s Witnesses are not a religion, have no church, have no doctrine and no clergy, and Jesus founded a Church, you are and have nothing. Thank you for the clarification.

      • Emery Richards

        Mark;
        You misquoted Matthew 15:18.
        Matthew 15:18King James Version (KJV)
        18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
        You meant Matthew 16:18. And Jesus said HE was the rock upon which his CONGREGATION, not church, would be built on. Jesus taught AGAINST churches, saying they were false, and were works of the flesh.

        The Koine Greek translated into English, word for word and not arranged into an English sentence using English composition reads:
        and I but to you am saying that you are Peter, and upon this the rock-mass I will build of me the congregation, and gates of Hades not will overpower it;

        The Koine word “ecclesia” ONLY translates into English as “people, or congregation”, depending upon context and usage, and NOT into church. And Jesus wasn’t saying Peter was the rock-mass, but Jesus himself was. Hades cannot be translated into English as “netherworld” either.

        I never said I was a church founded by Jesus, since Jesus NEVER FOUNDED ANY CHURCH OF ANY KIND. Ever. Your mistake is in thinking the KJV translation of ecclesia into church is correct. Is is NOT CORRECT AT ALL. It means congregation, which Jesus DID FOUND, the night before his murder. It is comprised ONLY OF HOLY SPIRIT ANNOINTED CHRISTIANS. VISIBLY annointed with God’s spirit. They’re the very first of the 144,000. Your so called research is flawed greatly, and your understanding of the scriptures in question is COMPLETELY INACCURATE. Please, try again. Sooner or later, you MAY get it right, but I sincerely doubt it based on your previous behavior and so called research.

        • Mark

          Going through message by message doing damage control? Funny you pick a message you already debated 2 years ago! BTW my church Congregation is the largest in the world, founded by Jesus and actually spreading the word world-wide. Yours was founded by an adulterer and con man selling “Miracle Wheat” and “Millennial Beans” and is his poor copy of the adventist movement panned off on those who can not think for themselves or do research. The fruite of your “witnesses” are numerous failed prophesies showing you are not what you claim. Research that.

  • Emery

    So because I choose to obey God rather than men, the truth isn’t in me? I have no reason to obey you, and you have no right to command me to do anything. You are quite pompous!

    • Mark

      God has not commanded you to lie nor slander. I haven’t asked you to “obey” me. I have asked you to simply back up your statements with verifiable facts, references etc.

      • Emery Richards

        Mark;
        Of course God hasn’t commanded me to lie nor slander. I never lie or slander. And yes, you DID command me to do your work for you. Your research required to understand the truth. You’re apparantly too lazy to do your own research. If you want to know if something is true, grab an accurate copy of God’s word, and RESEARCH IT FOR YOURSELF. Don’t ask ME to do that research for you. It’s your job, not mine. I’ve done my research for 45 plus years and counting. You, however, have FAILED TO DO SO.

        • Mark

          When I asked for “you to simply back up your statements with verifiable facts, references etc.” it is not me not doing my research, it is you not supporting the non-sense you say. It is your work to back up what you say. If you cannot or will not back up what you say, do the world a favor and don’t say anything. If you cannot or will not back up your statements it is just noise. If you are to lazy, or can not verify or justify your own statements it is not up to someone else to do it. That fails debate 101.

          • Emery Richards

            Mark;
            Asked? You never did any such thing. You stated it as an order or command. I’ve never posted any nonsense. Your suggestion to say nothing is to be ignored. Nor is what I post noise, it’s TRUTH. Since truth to you is like Kryptonite to Superman, you reject all of it. Not obeying your command isn’t being lazy. It is YOU who need to do the research to see if what I say is true. If you’re too lazy for that, then DON’T COMMENT TO ME ABOUT IT.

  • Emery

    I will say it again. No “doctrine” of Jehovah’s Witnesses exists. No church, no religion, no clergy. But you choose to ignore facts. They must be inconvenient to your invented argument. You people are Babylonish and will share in her plagues. No question of it.

    • Mark

      Not to mention no substance, no truth, no history before the 1800s….

      “They must be inconvenient to your invented argument.” – no all that fits the no substance argument quite well.

      • Yes Mark, apparently no proofs required by a
        Jehovah witness, only their opinion, that’s their
        alleged proof !

      • Emery Richards

        No substance or truth or history? It seems you’ve NEVER read Gods word, the Bible. It’s FILLED with substance, truth, and history of His witnesses. Invented argument? Not hardly. You’re the inventer here. The one IGNORING God’s word.

        • Mark

          It may seem that way to you. I agree the bible is FIlled with substance, truth etc. The problem is your arguments are not the bible, and they are not filled with truth or substance.

  • Emery

    I did. It is you who is lying, and acting childishly.

    • Brenda Murphy

      Emery, since you wanted me to look at Proverbs, let’s look at it together:

      Pro 6:1 My son, if thou be surety for thy friend, if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger,
      Pro 6:2 Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth, thou art taken with the words of thy mouth.
      Pro 6:3 Do this now, my son, and deliver thyself, when thou art come into the hand of thy friend; go, humble thyself, and make sure thy friend.
      Pro 6:4 Give not sleep to thine eyes, nor slumber to thine eyelids.
      Pro 6:5 Deliver thyself as a roe from the hand of the hunter, and as a bird from the hand of the fowler.
      Pro 6:6 Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise:
      Pro 6:7 Which having no guide, overseer, or ruler,
      Pro 6:8 Provideth her meat in the summer, and gathereth her food in the harvest.
      Pro 6:9 How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep?
      Pro 6:10 Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep:
      Pro 6:11 So shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth, and thy want as an armed man.
      Pro 6:12 A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a froward mouth.
      Pro 6:13 He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, he teacheth with his fingers;
      Pro 6:14 Frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord.
      Pro 6:15 Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy.
      Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
      Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
      Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
      Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

      • Yes praise the Lord Brenda, his Word endureth forever !

        • Brenda Murphy

          Amen!

  • Emery

    John 11:25-27
    25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
    26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
    27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

    The words of Jesus……Believest thou this ?

    Unless you believe that Jesus ( God ) came
    in the flesh, died on the cross, shed his blood
    for the atonement  of our sin, was buried, rose
    again on the third day, YOU will be lost !

    He sits at the right hand side of the Father,
    God the father accepts his sacrifice on our
    behalf, ….but you won’t ?

    John14:6
    6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Jesus doesn’t say, no man cometh unto the 
    Father but by a Jehovah witness,…does he ?

  • Emery

    Some of what you said is true, some is not, and a lot is pretty weird. First off, how can one beget one’s self? How can one pray to one’s self? How can one be sent by one’s self? How can one not know the day and the hour, but know the day and the hour? Jesus is the SON of God, not God. Jesus is as a god, but not God Almighty. The only God Almighty, no one before Him and no one after Him like Him. You make rediculous statements like that and expect to be taken seriously. Really?

    You make absolutely retarded questions like “Jesus doesn’t say, no man cometh unto the Father but by a Jehovah witness,…does he ?” Really? Are you insane, drunk, or on drugs? Or all of the above? What in the world is wrong with someone who’s mind works like yours? You spend a LOT of time deriding the Christian Congregation that Jesus began during his ministries. What is the reason for that?

    • Brenda Murphy

      So…Emery,
      Let us tell you again—-God is: The Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost….and NO, I’m not catholic.
      The Bible states this, this is the Godhead. These three work together as one. They are separate, but work together…for the same purpose….to give you everlasting life!

      Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
      Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
      Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

      • Emery Richards

        Brenda;
        God is ONE GOD THE ALMIGHTY. Jesus is God’s ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, and there is no “holy ghost”, it’s holy spirit. God’s spirit. His active force, and NOT A PERSON. NOT A GOD, NOT GOD, NOT PART OF ANY TRINITY PAGAN DOCTRINE. That came from Athanasius. The Bible does not say anyting about any godhead either. There IS NO TRINITY with regards to God, His SON, or His holy spirit. Your MISUNDERSTANDING of scripture doesn’t make your post accurate. It’s COMPLETELY FALSE. God says in His inspired word, that there isn’t a trinity, but God the father, Jesus His son, and God’s spirit. Trinity doctrine is a lie, and comes from pagan Babylonish religions, and of course, from you. You apparently do not believe God or His son. It’s your choice to choose to be destroyed. God gave you that right.

        • Mark

          “God says in His inspired word, that there isn’t a trinity” OK quote God saying that in scripture. Back up your statements.

          • Emery Richards

            Mark;
            Now you’re doing what religionists constantly do, and that is to think one scripture explains things. In God’s word, that is almost NEVER the case, AND YOU KNOW IT.
            As far as God saying there’s no trinity, He said He was ONE GOD. His son is His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.
            1 Corinthians 8:6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

            Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

            1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,

            James 2:18 Nevertheless, someone will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder.

            John 1:14 So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth.

            John 3:16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. 18 Whoever exercises faith in him is not to be judged. Whoever does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.

            1John 4:9 By this the love of God was revealed in our case, that God sent his only-begotten Son into the world so that we might gain life through him. 10 The love is in this respect, not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.

            Your rediculous and absurd claim that God is His OWN SON, and that Jesus is HIS OWN FATHER indicates a flawed mental thought process. Are you able to be your own son, or your own father? Of course not. Can you, as a son, work for millennia alongside yourself as your father? Again, of course not. Did Jesus pray to HIMSELF? Definately not, that’s rediculous. Can you, as a son, create yourself as a father? Rediculous! Can Jesus send himself as his own father? Impossible. Can something Jesus didn’t know, and he said was ONLY known to his father, be known to himself AS HIS OWN FATHER? Again, quite impossible. Jesus said he didn’t know, but only the father knows the day and the hour.

            Your rediculous postulation holds NO WATER in God’s word, the Bible. If what you so absurdly claim is true, then almost ALL of the scriptures would be proven to be lies. Titus 1:2 and is based on a hope of the everlasting life that God, WHO CANNOT LIE, promised long ago;

            Here’s a little background on the Athanasian Creed (trinity doctrine in Christendom):
            The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.
            The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.
            In The Encyclopedia Americana we read: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”—(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.
            According to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel, “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.
            John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: “The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899.

  • Emery

    Now why would I look at anything with someone who lies like you do, and who is full of inaccurate knowledge like you, and who hasn’t a clue as to how a discussion or conversation works? You misuse words apparently not knowing their meaning, are very derisive in what you say, interpret that which God said not to interpret, and preach it all as truth. If truth landed on your head and pinned you down, you wouldn’t recognize it. You are so clouded by Babylonish teachings and doctrine that you can’t possibly see anything clearly. Not that you would ever want to see anything clearly. You give forth too much evidence to the contrary.

    • Brenda Murphy

      It’s you who ‘babel on.’
      You can put me down all you want, I forgive you, but the word of God is nothing to mess with. If you come against the Word of God, you are in deep trouble….better pray now. I am praying for you, too.

      And that battle that you are looking for at the end, is when Christ comes back with the martyrs to execute vengeance on those that didn’t know God…and that had those martyrs put to death.

      Sorry, Emery—you have to be a martyr to take your vengeance out on those that you feel aren’t God’s.
      Tough call, but it isn’t mine, it’s God’s Word!

  • Emery

    Ghosts. Unvelievable!

  • Emery

    You are free to believe what you want, it’s your life to discard. Your blood is on your own hands, not mine. I’ve warned you and that’s my duty, and it’s been fulfilled. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. Your spiritual bankruptcy is boundless.

    • Brenda Murphy

      Warned me of what?

      As for blood, I have no blood on me…..oh, wait a minute…yes, I do! It’s the blood of Jesus that is applied! Praise God!
      No man can pluck me out of my Father’s hands—meaning –FALSE DOCTRINES OF MEN.

      Thank you, Jesus!

  • Emery

    I beg to differ. The Jehovah’s Witnesses are not a church, a religion, or a cult, unless Jesus began a cult when he was walking the Earth. Do you think he or his Father appreciate you saying Jesus started a cult? Do you think the annointed remnant appreciate it either? It’s not only doubtful, it’s a certainty. You are now saying that a blog is more knowledgeable than the annointed remnant, Jesus, and his Father. Amazing. You have the blood guilt of all of those you influence into thinking the way you do. You promulgate Babylonish beliefs, and therefore, you, and all of those who believe you will share in her plagues and punishments.

  • Emery

    If ever there was one to whom the phrase “the pot calling the kettle black” applies perfectly, it is you. Your total lack of politeness and respectful behavior is astounding, yet you claim others are impolite and disrespectful. Typical Babylonish behavior. Typical behavior of an adherent to a sect of Christianity. Galations 5:19-21 calls sects “works of the flesh”, those involving themselves in such works will NOT inherit the Kingdom of the Heavens.

  • Emery

    Warned you to get out of Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion, and warned you of the coming Kingdom of the Heavens. Using and teaching false religion is adherence to Babylon, as you have done since I first heard of this blog.

    • Brenda Murphy

      There is a difference between you and me, Emery.

      I have spoken the truth to you in love, and you have spoken lies to me in hate.
      I have even said I have forgiven you for the things that you have said to me. I will end it here.
      Goodbye.

      3Jn 1:11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

  • Emery

    Yes. Notice that the scriptures don’t mention Catholicism, clergy, or any of that man made religion, other than to condemn it.

  • Emery

    You haven’t spoken any truth, nor anything in love. I haven’t spoken any lies nor anything in hate. You don’t seem to be able to get anything straight. It’s probably because you aren’t Christian, you are of Christendom. There’s a HUGE difference.

    • Mark

      You have lied up down and side ways. I have carpets that don’t lie as much as you do.

      • Brenda Murphy

        LOL, good one!

        He’s got so many holes, he can’t keep any water in him, guess that’s why that living water isn’t there!

  • Emery

    King James Version
    James 2:26
    For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

  • Emery

    That of course refers to the Mosaic law, and it was done away with by God when His only begotten son was murdered. We now operate under free will. Jesus’ sacrifice gives us the chance at forgiveness if we ask for it and also repent. The law itself was acknowledged by God as being impossible to keep all of it. Out of His love for mankind, He gave his son, and He gave us free will to choose to purely worship Him, or Satan. How amazing his love for us is.

  • The fact is the Jehovah witnesses do not
    witness for God ! You Have rejected God, and
    the salvation of Jesus Christ ! Therefore 
    rejecting the Holy Spirit !

    Acts 7:54-59
    54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
    55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
    56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
    57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
    58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man’s feet, whose name was Saul.
    59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

    1 John:7
    7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

    Anyone that rejects any part of the trinity
    Rejects God, As the three are one !

    • Emery Richards

      Mike;
      Indeed, God’s witnesses DO witness for God, and have done so since God commanded His people to do so. Thousands of years. No active witness for God have EVER rejected God, since their dedication to Him. Neither have they rejected Jesus ransom sacrifice. To claim they did, is nothing short of an outright lie, which can serve no purpose. And neither have they rejected God’s active force, hoy spirit. That’s even more absurd to claim otherwise Mike. Do you make a habit of being absurd? It appears so in your posts. I hope that’s not the case. I never like seeing that someone has rejected God’s offers of salvation, love, and righteousness. It means their destruction without hope of resurrection. Never a good thing to see. You falsely claim that anyone rejecting any part of the trinity rejects God. Quite contrary to God’s word. God has indicated many, many times through His inspired word, that God is the ONE GOD ALMIGHTY, AND BEFORE HIM WAS NONE, AND AFTER HIM WAS NONE. He also said He CREATED Jesus, His son. His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. Look up beget in a dictionary. Nowhere in God’s word does it say God’s spirit is a person either. Nowhere in His word does it say we are to believe in anything pagan, as trinities of gods are STRICTLY PAGAN. You’re essentially claiming that God is His own son, and that His son is Himself. You claim that Jesus prays to himself, was sent by himself, worked alongside himself, was resurrected by himself, doesn’t do anything of his own originality but only does what himself sent him to do. You claim that God created himself, but was always in existence. You certainly do contradict yourself, AND GOD’S INSPIRED WORD. In fact, what you post herein, appears to be the writings of someone with no grasp of reality at all. None of your pose above makes one teeny tiny bit of sense in any way, shape, or form. Quite odd. You display a total lack of study and research into God’s word, but display OTHER’S thoughts, having none of your own. Those other’s thoughts come from the counterfeit copies of the “one true faith” that Jesus came to teach. Those copies are Christendom, all sects and denominations CLAIMING FALSELY to be Christian, but in FACT, they are NOT Christian. They are the single most effective tool of Satan in misleading the entire inhabited Earth. And you are helping him to do this misleading work. It’s even possible you don’t know what you’re doing, but still you are doing it. May I suggest that you do some HONEST RESEARCH, rather than relying on men, false religions, and false translations of God’s inspired word, the Bible.

  • I just looked up 1John 5:7 in the NWT and compared
    It with 1John 5:7 in the KJV

    1 John 5:7
    King James Version (KJV)
    7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

    1 John 5:7
    NWT
    7  For there are three witness bearers: 

    As you can see for yourself, the JW have deliberately
    changed the meaning of the KJV the Word of God,
    to support their own beliefs. Emery is a liar, fraud,
    heretic and decietful as with the JW CULT.

    The verse has been completely butchered !
    I stand with the KJV, the Word of God !

  • Emery

    Since Jesus started the Christian Congregation, through today, we do exactly as was done in the beginning in the Middle East. You, however, do the same thing now as people who reviled Jesus back then did. You hate him and anyone who witnesses what he taught the disciples to be witnessed. You hate anything that is not of your father, the father of the lie, Satan. Jesus said that the world hates what is not it’s own, therefore it will hate us, the Christian Congregation that he began. He was right in your case for sure.

  • Emery

    7 For there are three witness bearers: 8 the spirit+ and the water+ and the blood;+ and the three are in agreement.

    It is you who are a servant of Satan, and a promulgater of Babylon the Great. You’re not even a nice person. You have no manners. You are dishonest.
    The NWT hasn’t got anything in it that was butchered. It says what the original texts said, in plain modern English. The KJV has changed a large percentage of the original text into something unrecognizable. Jehovah has been removed 9662 times, when God says “you will have to know my name”. His name is not God, that’s His title. His name is Jehovah. The King James uses hell 38 times, when the original texts doesn’t use it even once. There are a lot more changes like this, and yet, you adhere to a book that is filled with the lies of the one who set about to create that work. He locked a bunch of people in a large library and told them what to create, and they did it. Now you love it more than the truth, God, Jesus, or any of the gifts from either of them. It’s your life to discard. IF you ever decide to re-claim it, go to the truth, not the KJV or any other work of Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion.

  • Emery

    You have compared the most inaccurate translation, the King James, with the most accurate to have ever been produced and choose the worst one to idolize. What does that say about your love of truth? What does that say about you as a person? Neither is good. You are as good as committing suicide in God’s eyes.

  • Emery

    NWT 1John 5:7 For there are three witness bearers: 8 the spirit+ and the water+ and the blood;+ and the three are in agreement.

    ASV 1 John 5:7
    American Standard Version (ASV)
    7 And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

    1 John 5:7
    Amplified Bible (AMP)
    7 So there are three witnesses [a]in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are One;

    1 John 5:7
    Common English Bible (CEB)
    7 The three are testifying—

    1 John 5:7
    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
    7 There are three witnesses —

    1 John 5:7
    Contemporary English Version (CEV)
    7 In fact, there are three who tell about it.

    1 John 5:7
    Darby Translation (DARBY)
    7 For they that bear witness are three:

    1 John 5:7
    Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
    7 For there are three that testify:[a]

    1 John 5:7
    Lexham English Bible (LEB)
    7 For there are three that testify,[a]

    Gee. I’m starting to see a pattern here, how about you?

    • Mark

      This passage is an interesting case, the earliest sources are closer to these translations provided by Emery than that found in the KJV. Its not that the KJV is inaccurate, it is accurate to the source it used. Since we do not have the original hand-written source from the original authors of any of the scriptures, we have to work with the best of what we have, or at least what we think is the best we have at any given moment.

      However there are also several criteria for translations, not just one. Scripture is multi-dimensional and translations are not exact. Translations can strive to be the most accurate for one of several criteria. That doesn’t make them bad or wrong necessarily, however there have been MANY bad if not awful translations throughout history too.

      As an example about translations, in English we have the word “snow”, and we all think we know what that is. the Inuit (and this is going back 30+ years so don’t expect perfection here) has something like 21 or 28 distinct words for snow. They live so close with snow and its properties that they depend on that they have a much larger vocabulary for it. Much of the information that is of interest to an Eskimo is entirely lost to most of us.

      Parts of scripture, like Songs, are lyrical – they were meant to be sung. An accurate technical translation to a given language may well destroy the musical qualities such as cadence, ability to fit within a melody etc. If the musical characteristics are to be saved, a more general translation may be required. A more technically correct translation may still be required as to absolute meaning.

      As far as absolute meaning we must remember that scripture is also highly nuanced, so a translation on the plain text meaning in a language will often miss vernacular plays on words etc. and import and subtle meanings. So a translation should be made for emphasis of what aspects the translator wishes to explore and convey.

      Lastly translations really need some sort of authority behind them to certify that they meet the goals set out for their use.

      The original scriptures are inerrant (they are error free), they are not however infallible (people can read them and completely get the wrong idea). This is why scripture must be paired with a valid teaching authority. Scripture says the pillar and bulwark of truth is the church. This is why not any Church can fill that roll. God gave us a church that would last to the end of time and the gates of hell would not over-come it with the power to loose and bind for reasons just as this.

      What is most important in the end is proper understanding, and many translations may be needed for that if one can not access the best available original sources.

  • Oh I see a pattern, you have cherry picked every
    verse than you can to suit your own cult beliefs,
    you are a liar and and a heretic, end of storey !

  • Emery

    Story is not spelled storey. Jesus Christ did NOT start a cult as you say. He was not a heretic, the congregation he started is not filled with heretics, and I am not a heretic, as I am part of that congregation. My post earlier shows that many Bibles have accurate translations. Many. The King James is one of the worst translations ever produced. You refuse to admit it. You seem to worship the KJV and not God Almighty. The choice of death is yours, as God has given us that choice. He will destroy you in the final battle along with all the other Babylon adherents. And there was no “cherry picking”. I picked the first half dozen listed in the program I use. There are several down the list that are inaccurate just like the King James Version. Constantine, in 325 C.E. (A.D.) assembled a lot of people from other Babylonish religions to create a Bible that was in concensus with other false Christian beliefs, and also created the Nicene Creed, that was rife with falsehoods. It is the basis for what later became the Roman Catholic Church. It was never intended to be accurate, only to put to paper the things that all of Babylonish religions agreed on, for their own purposes. In order to ascertain the true meaning of scriptures, one must avoid any translation that is the fruit of that council. The King James Version exemplifies that council’s fruitage. It is works of the flesh. Words of man and not God. A huge sin in God’s eyes. It is the furtherance of false teachings, false prophets, and false religion throughout the entire Earth. That is Satan’s goal, to mislead the entire inhabited Earth. It’s quite effective as demonstrated in your comments and beliefs and actions. You wish to do the will of your father, the father of the lie, Satan. You do NOT wish to do the will of God, your creator, Satan’s creator, and the creator of everything in existence. It is your choice as I said previously, to choose death instead of everlasting life. You can cry and moan and slander all you want, it won’t change anything. Your changing into an honest hearted person and following God’s words instead of man’s words is the only thing that will change ANYTHING in your life. You should give it some honest thought, not the kind of thought you’ve demonstrated in this blog site. It would be very refreshing to you, and could save your life. The final battle is approaching faster than you can imagine. Jesus said that even he doesn’t know the day and the hour of that battle, but his Father, God Almighty is the only one who knows. Gee, that’s another scripture proving your assertion about Jesus being God is false. Also, God said to Moses, that no one can look upon the face of God and live. Many thousands have looked upon Jesus’ face, and not one died as a result. Another proof of your false belief. Investigate, if you have the guts to do it, the truth of the matter instead of spouting the false teachings that have been shoved down your throat all your life, by false religion.

    • Mark

      What flavor is the kool-Aid your drinking at those Saturday gatherings at the Kingdom Hall?

  • Emery

    When the evildoers approached against me . . . , they themselves stumbled and fell.—Ps. 27:2.

    Have you experienced Jehovah’s assistance in difficult circumstances? For instance, have you prayed intensely about a distressing problem and then seen how Jehovah gave you wisdom or strength to cope with that trial? Or can you recall how obstacles to your joyful service were removed or how a large door of activity was opened to you? (1 Cor. 16:9) What effect does remembering such events have on you now? Do not those memories continue to persuade you that Jehovah can help you to overcome or endure even more serious obstacles or adversities? (Rom. 5:3-5) What if a powerful government were to hatch a plot to exterminate Jehovah’s Witnesses as an organization? Many men in modern times have attempted to do just that but have failed. Recounting how Jehovah has helped his people in the past will instill in us confidence to face the future.—Dan. 3:28. w12 7/15 3:5, 6

  • Emery

    Being guided by Holy Spirit is a big help. It is the only way to discern the original intent. The assemblage of those working on the NWT, for example, are guided by a body of the annointed remnant still on Earth. Jesus is the head of the congregation, and directs the annointed, with use of Holy Spirit. The annointed then teach the great flock (great crowd), and they all preach the good news of the Kingdom of the Heavens, using spiritual food sent down the chain from the head of the congregation.

  • Emery

    I don’t know how to answer a rediculous question like that, since there are no Saturday gatherings at the Kingdom Hall.

  • Emery

    It is probably a good idea to limit your interaction on this blog until you become a mature person. Does your mommy know that you are sneaking onto the internet to annoy people?

  • living witness

  • living witness

    Be filled continually are the Instructions for The Body of Christ

  • living witness

    NO WEAPON

    • Great worship songs Living witness ! Man can
      they sing ! Praise his name ! He shall set you
      free ! That first song was so beautiful ! I loved
      them all ! Great to hear so many spirit filled
      christians praising our great God and saviour
      Jesus Christ ! …..thank you !

  • Emery

    FOREHEAD The part of the face above the eyes. One Hebrew expression rendered ‘forehead’ (De 14:1) and the Greek word for “forehead” (me′to·pon) literally mean “between the eyes.” As a very prominent and readily seen feature of an individual, the forehead was, in ancient times, a place for marking slaves so that all could see to what master they belonged. Also, the devotees of certain pagan gods were thus marked. Even today some follow the practice of putting religious marks on the forehead, so that all others can be aware of their devotion to their religious beliefs.. Bearing a mark in the “forehead” is similarly used in a figurative way in the Bible to signify that one is a slave to the true God or to another. At Revelation 7:2-4, reference is made to angelic sealing of 144,000 persons in their foreheads. (See SEAL.) In another part of the vision of Revelation, the 144,000 are represented as having the name of the Lamb, Jesus Christ, and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. As the bride of the Lamb, they would properly take his name. (Re 14:1; 22:3, 4) Since the Hebrew language is twice mentioned in the book of Revelation (9:11; 16:16) and since the apostle John was a Hebrew, it may have been the sacred Tetragrammaton that was written on the foreheads of the 144,000, identifying them as Jehovah God’s servants and witnesses.

    As described at Ezekiel 9:3-6, a class of persons are marked in their forehead for protection from destruction by God’s executional forces, not being marked by angels in this instance, nor with a “seal,” but by a man who has “a secretary’s inkhorn.” Pictured as “sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done,” these, when ‘marked,’ show themselves to be slaves and devotees of Jehovah; their actions, practices, and personalities evidently give evidence of this before all, as if written ‘on their foreheads.’

    In branding slaves for the world political “wild beast”, a symbolic mark is put on the foreheads or the right hands of persons, even by compulsion, as depicted at Revelation 13:16, 17. Those receiving that mark identify themselves as being against God and are due to receive his anger in undiluted form.—Re 14:9-11.

    FIGURATIVE USE. The Scriptures allude to marks made on humans and refer to these in a figurative sense. In Ezekiel’s vision a man with a secretary’s inkhorn was commissioned to go through Jerusalem and to ‘put a mark [Heb., taw] on those who were sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that were being done in the midst of it.’ This action on their part showed that they were righteous persons, servants belonging to Jehovah, and therefore worthy of preservation at the time for the execution of Jehovah’s judgment. The figurative mark on their forehead testified to that fact.—Eze 9; compare Eze 9:4, ftn; 2Pe 2:6-8.

    On the other hand, in John’s vision persons receiving the mark (or, engraving) of the wild beast on their forehead or on their hand were in line for destruction. The mark on the forehead publicly identified them as worshipers of the wild beast and therefore as slaves to it. They were thus shown to be opposers of God, for the wild beast received its authority from the dragon, Satan the Devil. The mark on the hand would logically signify active support of the wild beast, the hand being used to accomplish work.—Re 13:1, 2, 16-18; 14:9, 10; 16:1, 2; 20:4.

  • Dan (required)

    BARACK OBAMA HAS ORDERED ‘IN GOD WE TRUST’ TO BE REMOVED FROM ALL CURRENCY STARTING ON JULY 1 2014

  • Emery

    Well, the attack on Christendom is kicking into a higher gear. The U.N. will work to eliminate it all together soon. When they announce that we now have “peace and security”, hang on to your boot straps.

  • Ruach

    Explain the cross penetrating the crown!

    • Brenda Murphy

      lol

    • MRH

      @Ruach: I just read some of your stuff above.. and WOW! I myself have done research into some of the things you briefly discussed. Anyway, I recently created a playlist (not my material), which you might possibly find somewhat intriguing 🙂

      • Red Blood

        To Ruach

        Couldn’t find the reply button on your last comment so I replied here.

        You have completely blown me away again.
        I hadn’t even fully recovered from the other comment you posted.

        Where are you?
        I’m willing to cross state lines just to have a sit down with you.

        You obviously know some stuff and I’ve got hungry ears.

        You said that you’re busy but please keep posting.

        And thanks again. Many thanks.

        RB

        • @Red Blood: Please also check out my above playlist, as I’m quite certain it will blow your mind as well. Included are topics such as; NWO symbolism, USA bombings, DNA hybrids, Barack Obama, USA Islamic prayer tower, and much more I’ve compiled over time; 911, RFID, HAARP, etc 🙂
          Hint: Watch videos full screen if you can, or in above box 😉

          P.S. Much knowledge here you won’t find anywhere else 🙂

          Mark

  • Emery

    Who knows? The original text says that Jesus died on a “stauros”. The only two translations of stauros are pole, and stake. Therefore, Jesus died on the torture stake that was the most common instrument of execution besides stoning, at that period in time. The cross entered into Christendom to attract pagans, as it is the pagan symbol for male genitalia. As far as it penetrating the crown, use your imagination.

    • Dan (required)

      n fact stake is the PREFERRED translation of Vines Bible Encyclopedia ”

      There is no such encyclopedia. It is just a dictionary published many decades ago, way before we knew what we know today about jewish history.

      Now, let’s explain this:
      There are 3 types of Greek. Classical, Koine and Current. Stauros means different things with different primary meanings.
      For example in Classical greek the primary meaning is stake. In Koine and Current Greek, the primary meaning is cross.

      When the gospel was written, Koine greek was spoken, so the meaning of stauros in the bible is cross. 99.99 % of all scholars agree here.

      Now, what the Watchtower does, is that it ignores the 99.99 percent and desperately looks for one single scholar that agrees with them and then quotes him to death for support. How silly!!

      Wake up people.

      • Emery Richards

        Dan;
        Indeed, Vine’s Bible Encyclopedia DOES exist, as does Vine’s Expository, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, and others as well. In Koine, stauros means stake or pole. You are mistaken. I could care less about your 99.9% of scholars as well, since most of them are of Christendom, NOT CHRISTIANITY.
        Your postulation that you know what the Watchtower does is hilarious. You have no way of knowing what anyone does or thinks, unless they tell you, or you witness it first hand.

        Wake up.

    • Ruach

      A quick response to Emery….

      @ Emery

      Nice try!

      BUT …

      I’m not letting you off the hook so easily.

      In your past posts you said the cross is a pagan symbol and idol of the RCC.

      I’ve already PROVEN, by quoting the Forward of the 1950 Translation NWT,
      that SENIOR JESUITS help write YOUR bible!

      By the way, Pope Francis is the first JESUIT pope!

      That’s ONE (but not the only) obvious reason WHY the RCC’s pagan symbol/phallic cross (your words) is YOUR symbol though.

      I then asked you … WHY…???

      WHY…? …Does your church, the JW’s, who you continually “belch” to be the one and only true church, have as it’s SYMBOL, a pagan symbol penetrating a crown ?

      OF COURSE the crown represents the female principle … we are not children.

      Again … WHY does your church use a sex-act as it’s symbol?

      WHY ???

      YOU DON’T KNOW!

      We knew that when you dodged the question days ago.

      Don’t fret … ’cause I DO know WHY!

      And when I get the time I will tell YOU !

      • Emery Richards

        Ruach;
        I said the cross is a PAGAN symbol. The “tau”, representing Tammuz, a fictitious pagan god. One of a trinity of gods worshiped in Babylon. The cross is not my symbol either.
        The witnesses for God HAVE NO CHURCH. None of God’s witnesses ever claimed to have a church, ever. Sex act? Now you’re being rediculous.
        I’ve not “DODGED” any questions either. Another fiction of yours, like this “sex act”.
        And I am quite certain that you know NOTHING truthful about the organization of God’s witnesses known as Jehovah’s Witnesses. Sure, you have heard, and read many false things about them, from the counterfeit copies of the “one true faith” as taught by Jesus, the original Christianity. But those non-Christian and apostate religions never have been truthful about anything. They also work very hard to destroy those who actually do work for God, and ACCURATELY preach His word, and warn people of the coming Kingdom rule of Earth, replacing Satan’s rule of Earth. Those sects and denominations of Christendom want nothing more than to prevent Satan’s rule from ending. They work VERY HARD to try and ensure it’s continuation. And you work very hard to ensure their success, as do so many millions today.

        • Mark

          Why all the pagan symbology in use by the JWs then? Why did the JWS use a cross on their publications etc. in the past?

          “For years Bible Students ( as Jehovah’s Witnesses were then known) wore a cross and crown as a badge identification, and this symbol was on the front cover of the “Watchtower” from 1891 to 1931.”

          The JWS have used a bit of occultic symbology, the crown and cross is the exact symbol of the Knights Templar logo of
          Freemasonry.

  • Just a few fans of the NWT translations

    What leading Greek scholars say about the NWT:

    Dr. Bruce M. Metzger, professor of New Testament at Princeton University, calls the NWT “a frightful mistranslation,” “Erroneous” and “pernicious” “reprehensible” “If the Jehovah’s Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists.” (Professor of New Testament Language and Literature)

    “A frightful mistranslation ..reprehensible”

    Dr. William Barclay, a leading Greek scholar, said “it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest.”

    “Intellectually dishonest”

    British scholar H.H. Rowley stated, “From beginning to end this volume is a shining example of how the Bible should not be translated.”
    “Well, as a backdrop, I was disturbed because they (Watchtower) had misquoted me in support of their translation.” (These words were excerpted from the tape, “Martin and Julius Mantey on The New World Translation”, Mantey is quoted on pages 1158-1159 of the Kingdom interlinear Translation)

    “A shining example of how the bible should not
    be translated”

    Dr. Julius Mantey , author of A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, calls the NWT “a shocking mistranslation.” “Obsolete and incorrect.” “It is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 ‘The Word was a god.'”
    “I have never read any New Testament so badly translated as The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of The Greek Scriptures…. it is a distortion of the New Testament. The translators used what J.B. Rotherham had translated in 1893, in modern speech, and changed the readings in scores of passages to state what Jehovah’s Witnesses believe and teach. That is a distortion not a translation.” (Julius Mantey , Depth Exploration in The New Testament (N.Y.: Vantage Pres, 1980), pp.136-137)
    the translators of the NWT are “diabolical deceivers.” (Julius Mantey in discussion with Walter Martin)

    “Diabolical deceivers !”

    The NWT is so extremely biased & perverted, it is questionable if any Hebrew or Greek scholars worked on it. It is nothing more than a sectarian paraphrase, not a translation.
    No one uses the NWT except the Jw’s.
    Jw’s on the other hand will use nothing else!
    It has undergone many revisions.
    It is not a translation, but a corrupt sectarian paraphrase

    • Emery Richards

      Mike;
      There are many scholars and translators the world over claiming quite the opposite, saying that the NWT is the SINGLE MOST ACCURATE, with respect to the ORIGINAL SCROLLS AND TEXTS, translation of the scriptures ever produced to date. The NWT is in no way biased or perverted, nor is it questionable, at least by HONEST PEOPLE. It’s certainly not a paraphrase either. I know HUNDREDS of people local to me who use the NWT, and they aren’t JW’s either. Not a “corrupt sectarian paraphrase” either. No honest individual would prefer a translation such as the KJV over an accurate translation. Comparing the KJV translation to the 5,000 or so original scrolls and texts, it contains over 12,000 DELIBERATE errors, and completely removes God’s PERSONAL NAME. A name God COMMANDS us to use constantly. One cannot use His name, if one doesn’t know His name, now can he? Most English translations follow the tradition of the KJV. TRADITION, rather than honest translation. It’s filled with errors to deliberately cause it’s readers to believe in false, pagan teachings. PAGAN teachings, not God’s teachings. There is no benefit in doing that, only destruction from God. But it’s your choice to die by suicide, as that’s what it means in the end.

      • Mark

        None of whom you quote or identify. Mike posted names that can in fact be looked up, and their credentials known. I can actually take what Mike writes and do research. You make an unsupported statement as if it had any value at all. To say “nor is it questionable, at least by HONEST PEOPLE” is the ultimate in circular reasoning.

  • Emery

    Some linguists have examined modern Bible translations—including the New World Translation—for examples of inaccuracy and bias. One such scholar is Jason David BeDuhn, associate professor of religious studies at Northern Arizona University in the United States. In 2003 he published a 200-page study of nine of “the Bibles most widely in use in the English-speaking world.” His study examined several passages of Scripture that are controversial, for that is where “bias is most likely to interfere with translation.” For each passage, he compared the Greek text with the renderings of each English translation, and he looked for biased attempts to change the meaning. What is his assessment?
    BeDuhn points out that the general public and many Bible scholars assume that the differences in the New World Translation (NW) are due to religious bias on the part of its translators. However, he states: “Most of the differences are due to the greater accuracy of the NW as a literal, conservative translation.” While BeDuhn disagrees with certain renderings of the New World Translation, he says that this version “emerges as the most accurate of the translations compared.” He calls it a “remarkably good” translation.

    We said that a good translation tells us the exact thoughts of the original Bible writers. The Old Testament writers used God’s name over 6,800 times. A good translation of the Bible should use God’s name in the Old Testament. Regrettably, many Bible translations today do not. However, the New World Translation uses the name Jehovah over 6,800 times in the Old Testament. In this area, the New World Translation has correctly told us the meaning intended by the original writers.

    Benjamin Kedar, who is an a professor at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem:

    “In my linguistic research in connection with the Hebrew Bible and translations, I often refer to the English edition of what is known as the ‘New World Translation.’ In so doing, I find my feeling repeatedly confirmed that this work reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the text that is as accurate as possible. Giving evidence of a broad command of the original language, it renders the original words into a second language understandably without deviating unnecessarily from the specific structure of the Hebrew … Every statement of language allows for a certain latitude in interpreting or translating. So the linguistic solution in any given case may be open to debate. But I have never discovered in the ‘New World Translation’ any biased intent to read something into the text that it does not contain.”

    Rolf Furuli, who is a Lecturer in Semitic Languages at Oslo University, says with regard to the Hebrew portion of the NWT:

    “In connection with writing my book I read the English text of the NWT against the Hebrew text, word for word. After first reading the Hebrew and then the English text, I sometimes said to myself: “Was this nuance really in the Hebrew text?” And certainly it was! The translators of the NWT have been extremely faithful both to their own translation principles and to the Hebrew text.

    Sunday, September 29, 2013
    Luke 23:43 – Punctuation and the New World Translation; “Truly I tell you today,…”
    On occasion, opposers of Jehovah’s Witnesses attempt to attack the scholarship and honesty of the translators of the New World Translation Bible. One passage that is cited by them is Luke 23:43 and the issue concerns punctuation.

    Addressing this issue, the late Dr. Julius Mantey, noted NT Greek scholar and strong trinitarian, allegedly wrote a powerful attack against the honesty and accuracy of the NWT. He complained of the NWT’s “attempt to deliberately deceive people by mispunctuation by placing a comma after `today’ in Luke 23:43,” when he knows better than anyone that none of the earliest manuscripts (up to the 9th century A.D.) originally had capitalization or punctuation! Later copyists have added punctuation wherever they felt it should be!

    Just because a modern text writer decides where he wants the punctuation and capital-ization to be in his interpretation of the original text (as Westcott and Hort did for the text that is used by the NWT and Nestle did in the text used by the NASB, etc.) does not mean that is how the original Bible writer intended the meaning – as explained in the Kingdom Interlinear footnote for this verse.

    For example, at John 8:58, most (if not all) text writers have left ego eimi uncapitalized. However, some respected trinitarian Bibles (such as NASB, TEV, and Phillips) have ignored the text writer’s preference and used capitalization here in an attempt to make this verb appear to be a Name: “I AM.”

    Are these popular trinitarian Bibles also guilty of “deliberately deceiving,” then, by miscapitalization?

    Clearly, for Dr. Mantey to even hint that punctuation can be precisely determined at Luke 23:43 is totally dishonest. We see The Emphasized Bible by Joseph B. Rotherham also punctuating this Scripture to produce the meaning found in the NWT:

    “Verily I say unto thee this day: With me shalt thou be in Paradise.”

    And the footnote for Luke 23:43 in Lamsa’s translation admits:

    “Ancient texts were not punctuated. The comma could come before or after today.”

    The Concordant Literal New Testament renders it: “43 And Jesus said to him, ‘Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise.'”

    2001 Translation – An American English Bible: 43 And [Jesus] replied, `I tell you this today; you will be with me in Paradise.’

    A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament by E.W. Bullinger, DD., page 811 says:

    “‘And Jesus said to him, Verily, to thee I say this day, with Me shalt thou be in the Paradise.’ The words today being made solemn and emphatic. Thus, instead of a remembrance, when He shall come in…His kingdom, He promises a presence in association (meta, ‘with’) Himself. And this promise he makes on that very day when he was dying…. Thus we are saved (1) the trouble of explaining why Jesus did not answer the question on its own terms; and (2) the inconvenience of endorsing the punctuation of the [KJV] as inspired; and we also place this passage in harmony with numberless passages in the O.T., such as ‘Verily I say unto you this day,’ etc.; ‘I testify unto you this day.’ etc. Deut.vi.6; vii.1; x.13; xi.8;,13,23; xii.13; xix.9; xxvii.4; xxxi.2, etc., where the Septuagint corresponds to Luke xxii.43.”

    Yes, there is no reason to deny the rendering of Luke 23:43 as, “I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”

    How Accurate is the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures?
    Is This Bible Translation Trustworthy? Examine the Facts and Decide

    As a weighty and solemn occupation, the scribal profession enjoyed a privileged status that dates back to the days of Moses. Scribal schools in Egypt, Mesopotamia, Syria, Canaan and other early Bible lands taught the discipline of faithful text translation and replication. Scribes adhered to a code of ethics, which called for the use of colophons appended to the main text. These colophons contained the scribe’s name, the date, the source of the original from which the tablet was copied, the number of lines, and so forth.

    Details such as these indicate that ancient copyists were deeply concerned about accuracy. Present-day scholars find only minimal changes in texts copied again and again for a millennium or more. A tribute to the work of these ancient copyists and translators.

    In this modern century, the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, as used by Jehovah’s Witnesses since the early 60s as a complete volume of both the Hebrew and Greek scriptures, has at times been charged with falsification. Why is this? Can this translation be considered an accurate reproduction of original manuscripts? Did modern-day translators follow the principles and constraints of their early counterparts? What of claims that certain texts have been altered solely to meet the doctrinal beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

    Prior to the release of the New World Translation (NWT), Jehovah’s Witnesses generally used the King James Version or the American Standard Version of the Bible. Early literature produced by the Witnesses quotes these versions and uses them for source documentation. Because of the fact these versions employed the use of the English language in its antiquated form, a need arose to have a modern translation that updated such dated vernacular.

    Additionally, there was a desire to restore the name of God, as translated to Jehovah, to the appropriate places where earlier transcripts had input the term LORD, in capital lettering.

    Early Jewish scholars, notably the Sopherim and later the Masoretes, proved to be meticulous custodians of the Hebrew text. However, an unscriptural orthodox superstition developed whereby the use of God’s divine name became sacrilegious; in other words, too sacred to even utter or write. The original Hebrew Tetragrammaton of YHWH, read in the traditional right to left style, was thus phased out. In later years, this trend continued. A very influential and widely used version proved to be the Latin Vulgate, a translation of the Bible by the scholar Jerome into everyday Latin. Jerome rendered the Tetragrammaton by substituting Dominus, “LORD.”

    Some scholars question the translation of the vowel-less YHWH into “Jehovah.” Indeed, it is evident that the precise, original pronunciation of God’s name is no longer known.

    Frankly, nor is it important. Should the fact that we cannot know with full certainty the way it was originally pronounced cause us to abandon the use of God’s name? If the exact pronunciation were critical to our worship, would not have God made sure that it was preserved for us to hear and use? Rather than becoming mired in semantic renderings, the important thing is to use God’s name according to its conventional pronunciation in our own language. The NWT has done this.

    4.0 out of 5 stars Not popular but definately as accurate as possible, July 2, 2012
    By
    Corinna RN, MICU – See all my reviews
    This review is from: New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (Hardcover)
    While unfortunately some persons have an opinion of Jehovahs Witnesses that may not be favorable for one reason or another, IMHO I have to say that this translation impresses me with its accuracy. I have seen over the past 20 or 30 years how Bible versions in general have began to become more and more “sterilized” and “politically correct” bending to public opinion instead of what the writers may have been trying to say. As an example I have to agree that Gods Name has been removed altogether from most modern translations.

    Look in most old book stores at any older Bible and you will usually see Gods Name (Jehovah, Yaweh, YHWH) in quite a few scriptures. These are all but non-existent today.

    I have to say I admire this translation (and the translators) for sticking to their guns, so to speak, and restoring Gods Name to the Bible where it is so prominent in the ancient Hebrew scripts and some in the New Testament as well.

    As a side note, I’ve read some of these other reviews and am pretty surprised at the obvious bias in the tone of the review. I’m of the opinion that a person can read pretty much any translation and get the idea of what Gods Will is. For some of these reviews to be as spiteful and hateful as they are says more about the reviewers “agenda” and not about the actual accuracy of the translation.

    Peace.

    Using Babylonish scholars and translations to discredit an accurate translation is dishonest. All so called “Christian” religions with clergy are false, and as the scriptures say, are in opposition to God. Therefore their opinion on the accuracy of a translation that is true to the original Word of God is invalid.

    Your childish attempt to list as many Babylonish disparaging statements regarding an accurate translation of the scriptures is appalling.

    • Emery

      Remember the fact also that God looks into all our hearts searching for honest hearted ones to draw to Him. The quotations that you listed are all from Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion. In none of them does God find an honest heart. I could find on Google millions of disparaging remarks about Witnesses, the NWT, or just about anything I wanted to find disparaging remarks about. I could also find countless praises about the Witnesses and the NWT, and just about anything I wanted to find praises for. It is clear that God finds no honest heart in those disparaging Him and His Word accurately translated and put into modern English in the NWT, since it’s translation is directed by Christ, the head of the Christian Congregation. Disparaging the Christian Congregation using Babylon’s tactics, only supports Babylon. You are a cult follower of Babylon and stand no chance of surviving God’s judgement on Babylon. You will share in her plagues and punishments. Not because God doesn’t love you because He does. He warned you countless times throughout your life, and you chose to ignore those warnings. Your judgement from Him is at your own request, not His insistence. Your post proves absolutely nothing other than the fact that Satan uses Christendom to further his misleading of the entire inhabited Earth, and you are helping him.

    • Take it up with your critics ! Are they childish too ?
      Don’t you like your lies being exposed ?

      • Emery Richards

        Mike;
        Childish too? Neither am I childish or a liar. Ever, and you know it. Your childish attempt at claiming that I am through your “exposed” comment, certainly is a testament to your lack of maturity and wisdom. Especially spiritual wisdom.
        Psalms 49:13 This is the way of the stupid ones
        And of those who follow them, who take pleasure in their empty words. (Selah)

        Proverbs 13:20 The one walking with the wise will become wise,
        But the one who has dealings with the stupid will fare badly.

        So, relying on your counterfeit religion, and your counterfeit translation of God’s word, will cause you to fare badly. Relying on wise ones will cause you to eventually become wise.

        This would require you to do a complete 180 degree turn around. Your current course contradicts all of the Bible’s teachings.

  • Jesus Saves !

    1 Cor:15:1-4
    KJV
    Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
    2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
    3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
    4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    1 John5:11-13
    KJV
    11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
    12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
    13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

    Titus 3:4-7
    KJV
    4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
    5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
    7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    Eph 1:13-14
    KJV
    13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    Eph 2:8-9
    KJV
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    ” it is the gift of God ” praise Jesus our Saviour !

  • Emery

    My critics, especially on this blog, are part of Babylon the Great. You folks try to argue your way into a good relationship with God, and try to argue your way into being righteous. It can’t be done. It just causes enmity between you and God. You have been warned about Babylon and sharing in her plagues, and you have been admonished twice as is required in the scriptures. If you want to continue using your Babylonish materials and believing your Babylonish beliefs, then continue to do so. If you don’t want to use an accurate translation of the scriptures, then don’t. But stop attacking God and His organization. It will only hurt you in the end. You can’t argue your way into surviving Armageddon either. Try as you might. Do what you want. I will do what God wants. That’s the key difference between us. Go away.

    • Anyone that doesn’t agree with you, are from
      ” Babylon ” ! …..As I’ve said, you are a cult !
      Who think they are Christian, yes we have
      been warned about Babylon, that’s why I’m
      warning you. Come out of her ! Come out of
      that cult your immersed in ! Let Jesus save
      you !

      • Brenda Murphy

        Amen, Mike!

      • Emery Richards

        Mike;
        Are you always dishonest? It sure looks that way from where I am sitting. You said anyone that doesn’t agree with me is from Babylon, not me. I am not a cult. I am a man. A cult is a group of people, not one person. Look it up in a dictionary. I am immersed in no cult either. The religions of Christendom are a cult. They believe in nothing but lies, and promulgate them with extreme intensity. Take yourself as an example. NOTHING can sway you away from your counterfeit, false copy of Jesus teachings of the “one true faith”, and to God and His inspired word. You reject them with your every fiber. You reject EVERY teaching in God’s word in favor of man’s teachings, who were CREATED BY THE GOD YOU REJECT. That is a cult Mike. That is extremism, and faith in Babylonish religion.

        • Mark

          For you to say to Mike ” You reject EVERY teaching in God’s word in favor of man’s teachings, who were CREATED BY THE GOD YOU REJECT.” is calumny. Since you state he rejects EVERY teaching, list them all and show how he rejects each one. You are a fraud. You make unsupportable statements, with no proof, and something like this you couldn’t possibly prove it. That certainly doesn’t stop you from making the statement however! It is dishonest to make statements you can not back up. I see above where Mike said “Jesus Saves !”, is he wrong? Is that against a biblical teaching?

          • Emery Richards

            Mark;
            So you’ve learned a new word, “calumny”, but you use it incorrectly, or you’re a liar. One or the other. I do not lie Mark, and I wish the same was true of you, but it demonstrably IS NOT. Mark, as you, display a wanton disregard for God’s teachings, and reject everything I’ve posted about God’s word, indicating you BOTH reject God’s word. So it seems that YOUR comment is calumny. Yet ANOTHER blatant example of extreme hypocrisy on your part. You’re pretty good at proving you’re hypocritical Mark, and getting better every day. I am certainly NO FRAUD, and again, I wish the same could be said for you, but it honestly cannot. Every statement I post IS SUPPORTABLE, using God’s word, the Bible. This as well is something I wish you could honestly say about your posts, but if one did say that, they would be lying. The problem is that you are so thoroughly UNFAMILIAR with God’s word, that “support” as you call it, might as well not be there, even though it is, IN ABUNDANCE. When I make a post, I am not here to “prove it”. We are not children on a playground, at least I am not. And I don’t make statements I cannot back up, you do, always for some reason or another. And NOT backing up my statements IS NOT DISHONEST. To claim it is, is simply very very weird Mark.

  • Emery

    You have no valid advice, evidence or knowledge, so why would I listen to you on ANY issue? You use faulty translations of the scriptures, you are immersed in Babylon the Great, and serve Satan. You offer NOTHING to honest hearted people of any value whatsoever. You are not honest hearted, so God doesn’t draw you to Him and the truth, so you criticize those He does draw to Him. Sounds a lot like Babylon to me. And yes, all those proffering false teachings like you ARE party of Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion. You speak of cults, Babylon is a cult, and you are a cult follower. The King James Version is your idol. Christendom, not Christianity is your religion. Why waste your figurative breath? It is not possible for me to care any less what you have to say, so why not stop saying it? Are you stalking me?

    • LOL EMERY, YOU STALK EVERYONE ON THIS
      SITE, You may notice that my above posts, just
      a few fans of the NWT, JW and their many false
      phrophecies and Jesus saves are not addressed
      to you, are they ? But anyone can read them if they
      like, and draw their own conclusions ! So, no, I’m
      not stalking you, I’m posting my views, just like
      you do ! As I said, anyone that doesn’t agree with
      you is from a Babylon false religion, other than JW
      that basically means the rest of the world. If you
      can’t care less what I say, why comment on it ?
      Why even read it ? its not addressed to you !

      • Emery Richards

        Mike;
        Stalk? Now YOU’RE grasping at straws too. I stalk no one, ever, for any reason. JW’s have NO false prophecies. They may state God’s prophecies, but they, themselves NEVER prophecy. One of your MANY mistakes in your posts. Your post about “a few fans of the NWT” is filled with accounts of apostates and religionists from Christendom, NOT FROM CHRISTIANS, or accurate scholars. Case in point, you seem to think you’re a scholar, but all you post is wrong. It appears that you posting on a PUBLIC BLOG SITE means it’s private to you alone. Trust me, that’s not how a public blog works. Anyone may read them, and ANYONE may reply to them. IT’S PUBLIC. You lied in saying “anyone that doesn’t agree with you is from a babylon false religion”. Your words, NOT MINE. I said anyone part of Christendom is part of a pagan Babylon false religion, and that is accurate and truthful FACT. Why I read or post anything, ever, is NO CONCERN OF YOURS. It’s none of your business to know why.

        But God REQUIRES real, TRUE Christians to warn others of what they are doing, or failing to do.

        • Mark

          That is just laughable. If this were a public exchange I’d almost expect the candid camera theme to start playing.
          You said “all you post is wrong.” but it looks like he posted accurate quotes! I looked quick and the first two I looked up were accurate quotes.

          He posted:

          “Just a few fans of the NWT translations

          What leading Greek scholars say about the NWT:

          Dr. Bruce M. Metzger, professor of New Testament at Princeton University, calls the NWT “a frightful mistranslation,” “Erroneous” and “pernicious” “reprehensible” “If the Jehovah’s Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists.” (Professor of New Testament Language and Literature)

          “A frightful mistranslation ..reprehensible”

          Dr. William Barclay, a leading Greek scholar, said “it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest.”

          “Intellectually dishonest”

          British scholar H.H. Rowley stated, “From beginning to end this volume is a shining example of how the Bible should not be translated.”
          “Well, as a backdrop, I was disturbed because they (Watchtower) had misquoted me in support of their translation.” (These words were excerpted from the tape, “Martin and Julius Mantey on The New World Translation”, Mantey is quoted on pages 1158-1159 of the Kingdom interlinear Translation)

          “A shining example of how the bible should not
          be translated”

          Dr. Julius Mantey , author of A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, calls the NWT “a shocking mistranslation.” “Obsolete and incorrect.” “It is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 ‘The Word was a god.’”
          “I have never read any New Testament so badly translated as The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of The Greek Scriptures…. it is a distortion of the New Testament. The translators used what J.B. Rotherham had translated in 1893, in modern speech, and changed the readings in scores of passages to state what Jehovah’s Witnesses believe and teach. That is a distortion not a translation.” (Julius Mantey , Depth Exploration in The New Testament (N.Y.: Vantage Pres, 1980), pp.136-137)
          the translators of the NWT are “diabolical deceivers.” (Julius Mantey in discussion with Walter Martin)

          “Diabolical deceivers !”

          The NWT is so extremely biased & perverted, it is questionable if any Hebrew or Greek scholars worked on it. It is nothing more than a sectarian paraphrase, not a translation.
          No one uses the NWT except the Jw’s.
          Jw’s on the other hand will use nothing else!
          It has undergone many revisions.
          It is not a translation, but a corrupt sectarian paraphrase”

  • Jehovah’s Witnesses and their many false prophecies
    by Matt Slick

    The Witnesses make many claims in their attempt to convert you to their faith. They profess to have the only true Christian church, to be the only true representatives of God, to have the only correct biblical teaching, and to be the only true announcers of Jehovah’s coming kingdom.

    If they are the only true church and are the only true voice of God’s word, then what they say should prove to be true and especially in prophecy. When it comes to predicting the future, the Watchtower organization fails miserably. Following are some of the false predictions made over the years by the Watchtower organization. If you present these to a JW, he will probably say something like, “Those are taken out of context,” or “They didn’t claim to be the prophet of God,” or “The light is getting brighter, and we are understanding Bible prophecy better now,” etc. Make a copy of these false prophecies, found in the appendix, and give it to them to check. They are right out of the Witnesses’ literature.

    Remember Deut. 18:22, “If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.” If someone makes a false prophecy and they have claimed to be a prophet of God, then they are false prophets and are not to be listened to. Do the Witnesses claim to be the prophet of God? Yes, they do.

    In 1972 the Jehovah’s Witness Watchtower claimed to be the prophet of God.

    IDENTIFYING THE “PROPHET”–“So does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? . . . This “prophet” was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian Witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a ‘prophet’ of God. It is another thing to prove it,” (Watchtower,  Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197). (See Deut. 18:21.)

    1897 “Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874,” (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 4, p. 621).
    1899 ” . . . the ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty’ (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth’s present rulership, is already commenced,” (The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101).
    1916 “The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ’s Reign, began in 1873,” (The Time Is at Hand, forward, p. ii).
    1918 “Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection,” (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89).
    1922 “The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914,” (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262).
    1923 “Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge,” (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).
    1925 “The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year,” (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3).
    1925 “It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work,” (Watchtower, Sept., 1925, p. 262).
    1926 “Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything,” (Watchtower, p. 232).
    1931 “There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah’s faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time . . . and they also learned to quit fixing dates,” (Vindication, p. 338).
    1941 “Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord’s provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon,” (Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1941, p. 288).
    1968 “True, there have been those in times past who predicted an ‘end to the world’, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The ‘end’ did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? . . . Missing from such people were God’s truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them,” (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).
    1968 “Why are you looking forward to 1975?” (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p. 494).
    A JW might say that the organization is still learning. If that is so, then how can they trust what they are taught now by the Watchtower? Will what they are being taught now change also? 

    A true prophet of God won’t err in prophesying. Only a false prophet does. The Jehovah’s Witness organization, that claims to be a prophet of God, is really a false prophet. Jesus warned us by saying, “For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect–if that were possible” (Matt. 24:24).l

    • Mark

      1 THESSALONIANS 5:20-22

      20
      Do not despise prophetic utterances.
      21
      Test everything; retain what is good.
      22
      Refrain from every kind of evil.

      So looking at their “prophetic utterances”, and “testing everything”, if we are to “retain what is good” we find there is nothing left to retain…

      These are not the prophesies you are looking for, move along… move along…

    • Emery Richards

      Mike;
      An excerpt from your above post: “The Witnesses make many claims in their attempt to convert you to their faith. They profess to have the only true Christian church, to be the only true representatives of God, to have the only correct biblical teaching, and to be the only true announcers of Jehovah’s coming kingdom.”

      Quite wrong there. None of God’s witnesses HAVE EVER attempted to “convert” anyone to their faith. They are ministers FOR GOD to preach His personal name, and the coming Kingdom. NO JW HAS EVER PROFESSED TO HAVE ANY CHURCH OF ANY KIND. The remnant of the 144,000 ARE the Earthly representatives of God. The scriptures are quite clear on that. And that remnant DO have the only accurate translation of God’s word. And they ARE the only proclaimers of Jehovah’s kingdom. All of Christendom pretends to do so, but they do it so inaccurately, and they lie so much about it, that they cannot be said to proclaim the Kingdom.

      Another excerpt: “If they are the only true church and are the only true voice of God’s word, then what they say should prove to be true and especially in prophecy. When it comes to predicting the future, the Watchtower organization fails miserably. Following are some of the false predictions made over the years by the Watchtower organization. If you present these to a JW, he will probably say something like, “Those are taken out of context,” or “They didn’t claim to be the prophet of God,” or “The light is getting brighter, and we are understanding Bible prophecy better now,” etc. Make a copy of these false prophecies, found in the appendix, and give it to them to check. They are right out of the Witnesses’ literature.”

      JW’s are not a church, and cannot be this “true c