Italy Defies Catholic Church Passes Bill Mandating Protection For Homosexual Unions

The long-awaited and much-disputed legislation was hailed as a landmark but also criticised as falling short of full equality for gay couples, particularly in relation to adoption and marriage rights.
italy-passes-same-sex-gay-queer-marriage-bill-nteb

Italy on Wednesday joined the rest of the Western world in extending legal recognition to same-sex relationships with parliament overwhelmingly backing gay civil unions after a long battle to overcome opposition led by the Catholic church.

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.” Romans 1:26,27 (KJV)

Lawmakers in the lower-house Chamber of Deputies voted 372-51 in favor of the legislation with 99 abstentions after an earlier vote of confidence in the government on the issue had been equally comfortably carried, making approval of the bill itself automatic.

The long-awaited and much-disputed legislation was hailed as a landmark but also criticized as falling short of full equality for gay couples, particularly in relation to adoption and marriage rights.

Gay rights activist Federica Frasconi, 26, was in a small crowd outside parliament for the votes.

“We hope the next law, which we will all fight for … will Rainbow Families be for marriage and adoption. And I hope there will be also a law against homophobia,” she told AFP.

Monica Cirinna, the senator who was the main author of the bill, said she expected the first civil union ceremonies “no later than September” and dismissed opponents who vowed to seek a referendum aimed at overturning the law.

 ‘Reject medieval bigotry’

“We will welcome that with open arms. It will allow us to push on to equal marriage even sooner,” she said. “Italy will reject medieval bigotry and conservatism.”

Marilena Grassadonia, president of the  campaign group, said it was a “historic day” for Italy but that celebrations would be muted because of the failure to secure adoption rights.

“What mother or father would attend a party their children are not invited to?” she said.

Prime Minister Matteo Renzi, who had backed the bill but largely stayed out of the debate, called the confidence vote to short-circuit potential last-minute blocking or delaying amendments by opponents of the legislation, who include rebels in his own party as well as the Catholic right.

“Today is a day of celebration for so many people,” the centre-left leader wrote on his Facebook page, framing the vote as another victory for his reform programme.

“We are writing another important page of the Italy we want,” he said.

The government used the same confidence vote tactic to get the bill approved by the upper house Senate in February, but only after the original text had been diluted to appease opponents threatening to scupper it altogether.

A draft article that would have granted gay couples the right to adopt their partners’ biological children was dropped.

While adoption will not be ruled out entirely, family judges will decide on a case-by-case basis.

European Court pressure

In the face of concern that civil unions would be too similar to marriage, references to a need for faithfulness were also removed.

Gay couples will be able to take each other’s names and inherit each other’s residual pension rights, but critics say the new rules fall short of legal protection offered to same-sex couples in other European countries, Canada and the United States.

Several previous attempts to legalise civil unions in Italy have foundered in the face of opposition orchestrated by the Catholic church.

The current bill risked running aground over the adoption clause, with critics insisting it would open the door to surrogacy, which is illegal under Italian law.

Renzi’s Interior Minister Angelino Alfano was among the most fervent opponents of providing a legal framework for surrogacy, saying in January the the use of paid surrogate mothers should be treated like a sex crime.

Italy had been under pressure to get a bill onto the statute book from the European Court of Human Rights.

Judges at the court ruled last year that Italy had breached its commitments under the European Convention on Human Rights by denying gay couples legal unions.

Polls suggest Italian public opinion has moved decisively in favour of civil unions in recent years but that a majority of voters remains opposed to extending equal adoption rights to gay couples. source

NTEB is run by end times author and editor-in-chief Geoffrey Grider. Geoffrey runs a successful web design company, and is a full-time minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. In addition to running NOW THE END BEGINS, he has a dynamic street preaching outreach and tract ministry team in Saint Augustine, FL.
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  • MEGA PREACHERS JIMMY SWAGGART AND PERRY STONE HAVE REMOVED MY VIDEOS ABOPUT THEM FLASHING SATANS OCCULT DEVIL SIGN. ONE MORE STRIKE AND MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL WILL BE TAKEN DOWN. THIS IS SOMETHING I’D EXPECT FROM SOMEONE OTHER THAN MEGA PREACHERS WHO CALL THEMSELVES PREACHERS… THEY DIDN’T EVEN CONTACT ME TO DISCUSS MY VIDEO EXPOSING THEM. THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS FREE SPEECH IN AMERICA. THE FAIR USE LAW IS BEING IGNORED TO DESTROY TRUTH…YOU BETTER WAKE UP!
    ZIONIST NAZI FACE BOOK NOW BLOCKS TRUTH!
    THEY WILL BE COMING AFTER YOU NEXT..
    MY WEBSITE IS: EARTHSHAKINGNEWS.COM

    • JA

      Amen Richard, thanks for this video. God Bless you!!
      They may take our free speech and freedon in general… but they will never take our salvation!!

  • Trober

    “The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.” Rev 17:16

    • GRACE

      amen Trober, first they use her as every prostitute is used then they destroy her.

  • GRACE

    Free speech is only for those who are promoting satanic ideas, they can say whatever they like and they world loves them.
    We can as Christians also speak up but don’t be surprised when you are banned, wear it as a banner, they hated Christ and they will hate His followers too, I’ve noticed a ramping up of banning Christians on some sites, they are getting ready to ban all Christians. But keep speaking truth as it is written in God’s word and if you get banned off the net then pray the Lord sends you elsewhere to speak truth, when one door is closed God will open another, I hope the rapture happens soon.
    Those that would choose Christ during the tribulation and according to Revelation there will be so many saved during the tribulation that John couldn’t number them, they will have to survive till the end of the seven yrs or give their physical lives for Christ so free speech for them will be underground, the world is pushing God out which is laughable because He is Creator of all. Satan will get his seven yrs to wreak havoc but seven yrs is a blink in time.
    Although, I have no idea about swaggart or Stone, heard of them but haven’t watched them but I’ll watch your video Richard so at least it is getting out on this site. I had no idea so many “so called ministers” flash the devil hand sign signifying whose side they are truly on, what a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God for not only is He our saving grace through faith in Christ alone, He is also a Holy Righteous Judge, they make it so obvious, it is sickening to watch them do this and then claim Christ is the Lord, I’d have to ask what Jesus they are claiming. There is only one that I know of and He is God, when you’ve see the Father you’ve seen Christ Jesus and vice versa. Matthew 10:39 “He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.”

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  • Richard

    Well glory to God, we are one day closer to the rapture of the Church. This is just another sign that this age is about to wrap up. Things are not going to be pleasant for those who are left.

    • TheGreatTroy

      Richard,

      How close is that “day” ?

  • TC

    Well,
    The Obamas can celebrate their sham of a marriage openly now with their rent a kids.

  • Larry/vietnamvet1971

    Perverts…..Freaks…Plain & Simple…….given over to a Reprobate Mind.

    They will be food at the Great Supper when the Angel beckons…calls the Birds of PREY to consume…eat their flesh and pick their eye balls out.

    • amelia

      You’re a sad and twisted individual Larry, wasting what is left of your one and only life spewing bile and vitriol.

      I find it utterly depressing that a book, despised by so many today, consisting of a collection of 2,000 year old ramblings by imbeciles has had such a devastating impact on humanity.

      • TheGreatTroy

        amelia,

        Got something to tell you, “Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess” and that includes you, amelia.

      • Larry/vietnamvet1971

        Sorry….LGBT people are Freaks…Perverts…..not NORMAL…..you and them do NOT have Common Sense 101 or any Morals….Decency.

        That same Book is called the Bible the WORD of the One & ONLY True GOD and it says you are already CONDEMNED and and the Wrath of GOD rest on you now….

      • Anon

        Amelia,
        I would give considerable thought to the things you say about ‘The Book.’ The Book that you refer to is the Divinely Inspired Word of God. The one life that you speak of here on earth, is only the beginning. You have an eternity to spend, and you get to choose where you will spend it. The choice should be simple, but many refuse to believe, and mock the things of which they have no understanding. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.” (John 3:16-17) So Amelia, you can accept Him now as your Lord and Savior, or face Him as your Judge on Judgement Day. He gave you free will to choose. Choose wisely, eternity is a long time. God Bless you.

        • Ky

          The bottom line is, if they refuse to believe they will go to hell. Jesus himself said that even if someone returned from the dead they will not believe. He was so right!

          Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
          Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

      • Tusitala

        “It is is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God”. Hebrews 10:31 God bless you, Amelia, and please realize Whom it is you are reviling. Jesus suffered a horrible death to redeem you, He loves you more dearly than you know. I pray you will hear the sound of His voice, repent, and ask Him into your heart. It is the one decision you will never, ever regret. This is for your eternal destiny, it is not a game.

  • Edwitness

    “We will welcome that with open arms. It will allow us to push on to equal marriage even sooner,” she said. “Italy will reject medieval bigotry and conservatism.”

    What she really means is that the gov’t of Italy rejects the person and the word of Almighty God. And jesus’ answer is;
    “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins.”

    Homosexuality is the end of corruption. It is the end product of idolatry. There is no form of debasement worse than this.

  • Jesus said, “Thy word is truth”.
    Those who did not believe Him then,
    are just like those today! Destined for an eternity
    apart from God!
    God led Abraham, Moses, Elijah, Daniel,
    the Apostles, and Paul!
    But,
    Men and women refuse to believe!
    They will stand before the one true God,
    And see His wounds in His hands and His feet,
    And weep!

  • twr

    There is no opposition by the Catholic church who has been molesting little boys for 2,000 years. This is all orchestrated. Churches in America are ordaining LGBT ministers. Integration before conversion. This is just proof that the existing church is not God’s church. The foundation of God’s church is the law and the prophets. Those are your two witnesses.

    Romans 3:31King James Version (KJV)
    31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    • Edwitness

      TWR,
      You are an adulteress.

      • twr

        Edwitness,

        You are a complete idiot. Paul said we should establish the law. Not being under the law does not prevent us from doing what pleases God. It is not binding. It is a choice. By your lack of comprehension, you agree that murder, adultery ect… is ok. If we followed the law, there would be no question of homosexuality. You are the man of sin. There is no one that can make you give your soul but you. There was a conversation about who would be the witnesses. Most said Moses and Elijah. They represent the law and the prophets. The law and the prophets shuts down phony Christians like you. Lawlessness is why we are in the state we are in.

        • Edwitness

          TWR,
          The law voids faith. “For the promise , that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.For if they which are of the law be heirs, FAITH IS MADE VOID, AND THE PROMISES MADE OF NONE EFFECT. Because the law works wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace.” Rom.4:13-16. Take away the law and you take away sin’s power.

          This is why the law had to be abolished (Eph.2:15) and is also why Paul told them that know the law, that to continue in the law while being in a relationship with Jesus made them adulteresses. Rom.7:1-7.

          TWR, you are an adulteress.

          • twr

            Edwitness,

            I hope people on here will wake up and see the nonsense you are saying. According to the gospel of Edwitness. the law voids faith. This is a play on words unlike the Israelites of the first testament, we are not keeping the law out of obligation. Your gospel differs from Paul. Who should we believe?

            Romans 3:31King James Version (KJV)
            31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

            The Law was never abolished. This is a blatant lie on your part. Ephesians 2:15 does points to specific ordinances or decrees within the law, not the law itself. How can Edwitness doctrine say the Law is abolished, when the Messiah says it was not?

            Matthew 5:17-18King James Version (KJV)
            17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

            18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

            Who abolished the law? Paul? The Messiah said he came to fulfil. He did not say he had fulfilled. He did not say by his death he would fulfill. Until heaven and earth pass, not one jot. Has heaven and earth passed? Until the law be fulfilled in all flesh, there can be no kingdom. Man will continue to eradicated themselves until lawlessness is eradicated. You don’t have to have love for God or the Messiah under the old covenant of law. Under the new covenant we keep the commandments out of love. Faith is obedience.

            Romans 1:5King James Version (KJV)
            5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

            The commandments tell us how to be righteous before God. Our faith comes from obedience.

            Romans 16:26King James Version (KJV)
            26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

            Moses was a prophet. The Messiah said he did not come to abolish the law or the prophets. Whatever you think was abolished, is a misunderstanding because you are lawless. Messiah said if you love me keep my commandments. Going to church every Sunday and paying your tithes just because you have been told that was the way to salvation is the same as keeping the law. You are doing out of obligation because you believe you will see the kingdom. Keeping the Sabbath out of love and having faith to know that you will not receive what God has to offer on the Sabbath any other day that what he sanctified is living by faith. Anything else is fear of God taught by the precepts of men. I can’t be an adulteress because I was never under the law. How can obedience to the heavenly father be adultery? You are a creator and guardian of false religion.

          • Ky

            Edwitness,
            I never thought I was in disagreement with your theology and I still don’t. I don’t believe your tone is called for. (juvenile?) Your argument, and it is an argument, is with TWR. Paul was a man, nothing more. To suggest he does not sin, (That seems to be what you are saying.) eliminates the need for Christ in his life. I believe he was speaking of himself as well as any who had not trusted in Jesus as their savior when he asked his question. (Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?) You can read into this whatever you want, but I doubt Paul intended to excuse himself from present company and you were not there so you do not know. As far as Zechariah and Elisabeth, you will have to ask God how he found them blameless. I believe it goes to “intent”. You can have noble intentions and still sin, although unknowingly. God looks on the inner man, remember? The Pharisees that Christ condemned, kept the law and lived that way all the time also, but it was what was on the inside that defiled them. Mat_23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. This is the 1st time you have addressed comments to me on this thread, so you have not asked me a question regarding Paul’s statement in Rom.7:9.

        • Ky

          Paul could not keep the law anymore than we can.

          Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
          Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
          Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
          Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
          Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
          Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
          Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
          Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
          Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
          Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
          Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

          • twr

            At the end of all that, did he not say he serves the law of God? Whether or not he keeps it in his flesh is debatable. At least he understands in his mind that there is a law of God to keep. That is why he says he dies to sin daily. When you are aware in your mind there is a law to keep and you desire to be obedient, faith is increased. Paul said he delights in the law of God. Where else does the Bible mention the Law of God. The only thing you hear about is the law of Moses. Could there be another law? Paul reminds of David talking about the law of the Lord which some believe doesn’t exist.

            Psalm 19:7-8King James Version (KJV)
            7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
            8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.

            There would seem to be two laws, which I have been trying to explain.

          • Edwitness

            Ky,
            You think you have found a way around Paul’s being blameless. But, what about Zechariah and Elisabeth? Luke 1:6 “And they were both righteous before God, walking (this means they lived this way at all times) in ALL the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless”. Funny the same word is used here as Paul used to describe himself, huh?

            And you never answered my question regarding Paul’s statement in Rom.7:9. When was Paul, a Jew from birth, born under the law, ever “alive apart from the law?” The answer is never. That is, until Paul came to faith in Christ. So your juvenile attempt at proving Paul was referring to himself and not simply using the first person as an example does not fit the narrative.

            Paul was speaking to their problem with the law, not his own. Because he never had one after he met Jesus. From the time he first trusted Christ forward he never again trusted in the law for salvation. And this is what he is addressing here. So the only person he can be referring to here is the one who is trusting in the law for salvation. So all the passages you wrote are referencing them, not him.

          • Edwitness

            Ky,
            I am suggesting nothing. I am quoting the scripture. You are the one having difficulty accepting what the literal scripture says. I have written out the exact wording for these passages before. They say exactly what I said they do. What possible reason could you have, other than a pre conceived idea that everyone has broken the law, that would cause you to reject the clear reading of these passages? None. This is how things are taken out of context.

            You’re going to claim that God was speaking to “intent” when He says that Zechariah and Elisabeth were “walking (as a way of life) in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless”. How do you intend to do all the commandments and ordinances without actually doing them, and have God support your having done all of it? The reason you point me to God for the answer is that you can’t find an answer for it in your understanding of the scriptures. That is because legalism has woven it’s way through most church doctrine. The clear reading is that they kept the whole law as God had told Israel to. To say otherwise is to butcher the passage. Remember, the law was a works oriented system. We see “the works of the law” wherever we read of them. The law is works. Rom.4:1-4.

            As to their need for Jesus being nill if they were able to keep the whole law, that idea is a contradiction of the scripture. Paul states that the righteousness that comes from the blameless keeping of the law can not save us. Gal.2:16-21. “I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law (blameless law keeping), then Christ is dead in vain”. (For nothing) Yet you say they would not need Jesus if they kept it blameless. Will you concede to Paul?

            After saying that he kept the law blameless, Paul then goes on to explain that he is still hopeless without jesus’ saving grace. He says “But what things that were gain to me (blameless law keeping, etc), those I counted loss for Christ.” First of all, how would his lying or obfuscating about keeping the law blameless be gain? If, as you say, that is what he was doing? It wouldn’t. But, he says it is. Second, he counts all the things he said of his pedigree to be loss for Christ. This means his pedigree meant nothing as far as salvation is concerned. Because no one can be saved by works. Gal.3:21; Rom.4:1-4. The sin of the world that we are reproved by the Holy Spirit of is “No faith in me”. John 16:9. Not breaking the mosaic law.

            Paul continues to explain that the keeping of the law blameless only results in a righteousness that is of works, and therefore leaves us lost and without Christ. Phil.3:9. Because the righteousness of faith is the only righteousness that will give life. Gal.2:16. “Knowing that a man is not justified (righteous) by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ…” His “own righteousness which is of the law” can not make him alive. Gal.3:21. “Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life (and there has not been), verily righteousness should have been by the law”. All anyone can be by keeping the law blameless is a blameless law keeper. And still just as dead spiritually as someone who never kept the law at all. This is why even though a person like Paul or Zechariah and Elisabeth keep the whole law blameless they are still lost. The righteousness of faith in Jesus is the only righteousness that can give life.

            The question for us is, do we believe that a righteousness of works can save us? Of course we do not. Or do we believe that a righteousness that comes from faith is what makes us alive? The answer to this is an emphatic YES! The problem with a righteousness of works is that the salvation Jesus brought to us is not of works lest any man should boast. Eph.2:8,9. How can anyone boast of something they can never do? They couldn’t. So boasting is done because they can do it. But, salvation is by grace through faith, not of the works of the law. 🙂

            Remember what Paul said he was doing when he started his description of his own pedigree? He said “Though I might also have confidence in the flesh (His own works). If any other man thinks that he has whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more“. Paul was saying, and rightfully so, that his pedigree far surpassed any of his peers. God expected Israel to keep the whole law. He did make provision for their occasional shortcomings (sacrifices and offerings) and sometime worship of idols (slavery and physical death), but overall God kept them for His namesake.

            On the other hand, TWR is a lost person. He does not believe that Jesus is God. He believes Jesus was created by God just like you and I are. What we are discussing Ky is not anywhere near on the level of TWR’s delusion. We are siblings in Christ. He is not in the family as of yet. TWR trusts in the righteousness that is of works + belief in Jesus. The exact person Paul addresses in Rom.7. The man that is a “wretched man”. The man who still is in need of the deliverance from the law. But, as you and I both know, he can not trust in a Jesus who is not God and be saved from anything. Let alone the law.

            Blessings:-} Ky

        • Ky

          “There would seem to be two laws, which I have been trying to explain.”

          twr,

          An interesting idea but I am compelled to think that “the law” is the law of God and they are one in the same.
          “Eze_18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die…”

          Joh_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

          Rom_2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

          Rom_3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

          Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

          Heb_9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

          • Edwitness

            Ky,
            When we read Rom.8:2 we see that there really is more than one law. In fact, there are three declared in the Rom.7 and 8 passage.

            The law of sin in my members.
            This is the law that is able to “take occasion by the commandment”. Rom.7:11. They are the desires of the natural man. In another place they are described as “the lust (desires) of the flesh, the lust (desires) of the eyes, and the pride of life”. 1John 2:16 These do not have to be thought of as evil. They are simply desires like food, clothing, and other needs and desires we have as natural men. They become sin when they are given full reign in our lives. Like the need for food becoming gluttony. Or the need for intimate companionship becoming fornication. Etc…. In their proper context they are good. But, they can not save us. They are of the world. Natural. 1 Cor.15:46-48 Before we come to Christ, we are natural just like God made Adam. “A living soul”. A living, breathing creature. Gen.2:7. When we are “born again” a spirit is birthed in us. We can then relate (know) a spiritual God. John 3:1-8 and 4:24 “God is a Spirit. And they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth”. This is why we need Jesus. And why keeping the law blameless will not save us. The law can not make us alive spiritually. Only Jesus can do that.
            The law of my mind.
            This is the law of Moses that the Jews were to keep. It was conditional. That is why with their mind they made every effort to do the works of the law. If they did not they would be cursed. If they did they would be blessed. Duet.28
            The law of God.
            This is the “law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus”. Rom.8:2. Which really is no law at all. It is life eternal. This “law” says when we “know Him” (by being born again) we have spiritual life. John 17:3 and Rom.8:11. Notice Paul says that this law is a delight to the “inward man”? The spirit man. And we know he is using this designation of it being a law figuratively because Paul teaches that there is no law for the righteous man. For those who trust in Christ. 1 Tim.8-11 and Rom.3:27. “Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? Nay: but by the law of faith”. Is faith a law? Not in the traditional sense. It is really just our side of the relationship. God aggresses toward us with His sacrificial love. We respond to Him with faith. That is, trust in Him. This is our relationship with God and the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

            So when Paul says “with my mind I serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin”, he is saying that with the relationship intact he now begins renewing his mind to the things of the spirit Rom.12:1,2. And that the body has natural desires that if not brought into subjection to Christ (1 Cor.9:27) will take us to over desire. Lust.

            As an aside, when Paul says “I die daily”, he is saying he faces a literal, physical death daily. 1 Cor.15:30,31. He prefaces his statement with “And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?” This means in peril. Then says “I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily“. He is saying in the full context that because death will be destroyed and he will be raised he can face physical death unafraid.

            The concept of keeping the body in check is addressed elsewhere when he says ““But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.” 1 Cor.9:27 And Paul being a “castaway” means he would not be the respected preacher/teacher anymore that God called him to be. And I’m sure you would agree, it does not mean he would lose his salvation.

            Blessings Ky :-}

          • Edwitness

            Ky,
            You said “If it was possible for even one man to keep the law, then it was possible for all.” AMEN TO THAT! I gave you 4 examples.

            In Rom.2:12 we see that the sin of those who do not have the law must be “NO FAITH IN ME”. Because the law is not their’s to keep. So breaking the law does not count against them. Rom.5:13

            The sin of the world that Rom.3:23 refers to, and the Holy Spirit is sent to reprove the world of, is “NO FAITH IN ME”. John 16:9 Not, you broke the law of Moses. The law has nothing to do with why anyone goes to hell. So it can not be the measuring stick for determining someone’s sin. That is why Paul told the Ephesians that Jesus abolished the law. So that the only sin standing between the Jew and the gentile now is “NO FAITH IN ME”. This is how the two, Jew and gentile, are made one new man. Eph.2:15

            Sin is missing the mark. If the mark was the law then sin would be breaking the law. But, the law is not the mark in the New Testament. Jesus is. So to miss the mark is to have “NO FAITH IN ME”.

            Blessings Ky 🙂

      • twr

        Edwitness,

        I have a few idiot proof questions I would like you to consider, and answer. Do you think God objects to a law he wrote? Do you think the Messiah objects to a law he embodies?

        John 5:46-47King James Version (KJV)
        46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

        47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

        How can someone who calls themselves a true Christian object to the law? How can someone be against thou shat not kill, steal, commit adultery or have any other gods before me?

        Adultery is not following the law. The law is a teacher. Adultery is depending on the law as the only means of salvation. Love is when you keep the law strictly because you know it pleases God. How does that make me different from you? If you won’t kill just because God said don’t do it and it will jeopardize your salvation, that is law. If I won’t do it because it is not in my heart, that is love. If you go to church on Sunday because you believe it is the key to your salvation, that is law. If I keep the True Sabbath because I believe in the blessings God promised, that is faith because I know I will not receive the same measure of blessing the other six days. I’m tired of you coming at me with ignorance. I know there is strong delusion, but once you hear the truth, that delusion goes away, depending on what is in your heart. The law and the prophets will expose the lawless. That is why it is a witness.

        Keeping the law is not sin. The law is knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20). Transgression of the law is sin (1 John 3:4). Obedience to the law is faith.

        Matthew 18:3-4King James Version (KJV)
        3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

        4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven

        Unless you convert, you will never see the kingdom.

        Psalm 19:7King James Version (KJV)

        7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

        The Pharisees new the law, but they did not keep it.

        Matthew 5:20King James Version (KJV)

        20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven

        You are writing your own ticket to oblivion

        Matthew 5:19King James Version (KJV)

        19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

        This includes the fourth commandment. I hope for your sake, you wake up. If not, oh well. You have misunderstood the message of Paul, and the Messiah. The Messiah didn’t come here to save this generation

        Matthew 18:11King James Version (KJV)
        11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

        Have you ever heard of an A&B conversation?

        Mark 9:1King James Version (KJV)
        9 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. Messiah was not talking to you or anyone from this generation. Religion is deceptive. When Messiah said this generation shall not pass without seeing the conclusion of all things, he was not talking about you 2,000 years later. Our path to the kingdom goes thru the law and the prophets.

        • Edwitness

          TWR,
          You need to ask Paul these “idiot proof questions”. Paul kept the law “blameless”. Phil.3:6. Yet he missed Jesus all together. Had he not been taught by Jesus Himselfcome that the righteousness one receives from perfect law keeping will not save you, he would have continued killing those he believed were blasphemers. Which was a perfect law keeper’s duty. And is why Paul tells us that the law was abolished. Eph.2:15.

          No one is talking about “breaking the law”. You can not break a law that does not exist. “Where no law is, there is no transgression“. Rom.4:15.

          You may think your path to the kingdom is through the law and the prophets, but Paul was very clear that to keep the law and be “married” to Christ makes you an adulteress. TWR, you are in exactly the same place Paul was just before he met Jesus. If you will hear Jesus as Paul did you too can be delivered from the law. Rom.7:6.

          And Ps. “This generation” refers to those in the generation that would see the signs He was talking about in the passage. That is us! MARANATHA!!

          • twr

            Edwitness,

            Paul was a Pharisee. That was his job to punish those not keeping the law, not the law keepers. Those ordinances which caused Paul to persecute Christians were abolished. Where no law exist, there can only be lawlessness. Once again the gospel of Edwitness is flawed. Paul said should we continue to sin because we are under grace. Sin is transgression of the law. Why would Paul ask if we should continue to transgress a law that no longer exists? I’m in the place Paul was after he met Jesus. He still did not break the law. He kept the commandments. He kept the Sabbath. You are in the place the gentiles were in before Paul’s ministry. You worship with your mouth but your heart is far from God because you do not believe in being obedient. Obedience leads to faith.

          • tiptopsaidhe

            Maybe a clarification is needed between the ceremonial law and the moral law. The law of ceremonies and washings and sacrifices was abolished at Calvary (and ended for all time at the destruction of the temple in 70). 9 of the 10 commandments were reiterated by Jesus, the only exception being the Sabbath, which He became so we could accomplish the other 9 in His power.

            Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
            Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

            Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
            Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
            Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

            When God draws us to know Christ as our savior and our Sabbath, our labor to be righteous ceases (our work is finished), and in fact can become a sin if we strive (works) to accomplish those things which Christ accomplished for us. The new covenant promises that, as we rest in His finished work on the cross, He will cause us to keep the laws and statutes because it is Him, in us, that is pleasing His father in obedience.

            Christ (God) cannot abide in a lifestyle that is rebellious to His own moral code. Christ living in us would walk us out of rebellion and into obedience. Paul refers to that as sanctification, which is an ongoing and continual process until we are complete in glory.

          • Ky

            “God expected Israel to keep the whole law. He did make provision for their occasional shortcomings…”

            Ed, I understand what you are saying, but I think you made my point for me, which is that nobody but Jesus can keep the law, which is THE reason he died for us. If it was possible for even one man to keep the law, then it was possible for all. The Bible does not say anything about broadening the net so more might be saved. I believe it was so all might be saved and none would have an excuse.

            Rom_3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

        • Edwitness

          TWR,
          I guess if quoting the scripture word for word is “nonsense”, then you would be right. But, Rom. 4:14 says exactly what I said it does. “For if they which are of the law be heirs, FAITH IS MADE VOID, and the promise made of none effect”.

          You are an adulteress when you mix the keeping of the law with faith in Christ. Rom.7:1-6
          1″Know you not, brethren, (for I speak to them who know the law), (These are Jews not Gentiles), how that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?
          2For (or because) the woman (Jew) which has a husband (the law) is bound by the law of her husband (the law) as long as he (the law) lives; but if the husband (the law) be dead, she (Jew) is loosed from the law of her (Jew) husband (the law).
          3So then if, while her (Jew) husband (the law) lives, she (Jew) be married to another man (Jesus), she shall be called an adulteress: but if her (Jew) husband (the law) be dead, she (Jew) is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man (in this case Jesus).
          4Wherefore (because of what I just said), my brethren (Jews), you also are become dead to the law by the body of christ; that you should be married to another, even Him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. (Unless we are dead to the law we can not bring forth fruit unto God)
          5For when we (Jews) were in the flesh (under the law), the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members (our natural desires) to bring forth fruit unto death.
          6BUT NOW WE (Jews) ARE DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we (Jews) were held; that we (Jews) should serve in newness of the spirit (married to Christ), and not the oldness of the letter (keeping the law).”
          I repeat, this is not written to Gentiles.

          The law being “established” means it’s true purpose is revealed. And that is to bring wrath. To make sin count. To curse those who are under it. All these are supported by the scriptures I gave you in my prior comment. If your path to the kingdom is through the law and the prophets, your path will end in the same place the Pharisees path took them. The lake which burns with fire.

          You will be rejected as an adulteress when you stand before the Lord with your legalism. You are as lost as those Paul spoke to in Rom.7. The deliverance from the law they needed is the same that you need. “For Christ is the END OF THE LAW for righteousness to every one that believeth“. Rom.10:4

          The righteousness of the law will not save you. Only the righteousness that is of faith will save anyone. Phil.3:6-10
          The law has been abolished. Eph.2:15. And by removing the enmity that was the law, God made the way for there to be one new man. A Christian! Jew and Gentile together.
          So when you say “law and prophets” you reject the Lord Jesus. Just as the Pharisees did. He will not share His throne with idols.

          Jesus is I AM. The God that saves you. Glory to His holy name!

        • Edwitness

          TWR,
          The “law of God” is found in Rom.8:2. “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free (just like the married woman in Rom.7:1-7) from the law of sin and death”. The law of sin and death is the law of Moses. Remember, “the soul that sins it shall die”.

          And the definition of the law of God is found in Rom.8:11. “But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwells in you”. The “law of God” is eternal life through the resurrection. Which is knowing Him. John 6:28,29 and John 17:3.

          And I did not say there is no sin because there is no law. I said what Paul said. “Sin is not imputed where there is no law”. And “Where there is no law, there is no transgression”. The sin you might commit does not count against you when there is no law. And Paul says the law was “abolished”. It was the same before the law was given to Moses as well. Paul said of them that “For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law”. Rom.5:13

          • twr

            Edwitness,

            This is almost a pointless conversation because you have created your own doctrine. You contradict even what is written. The law of Moses is the law of sin and death? How ridiculous. The law of sin and death came from Adam and the garden (Romans 5:18). How is the definition of the Law of God found in Romans 8:11? In Psalms 19:8, David says God’s law consists of statutes and commandments. If the Law of God consists of statutes and commandments, then eternal life through resurrection consists of following those statutes and commandments. Christ death released us from the law of sin and death, but not the commandments. Knowing Christ is not knowing who he was in the flesh, but who he was in spirit.

            John 5:46-47King James Version (KJV)

            46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

            47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

            You say faith makes void the law. Paul says it does not. Romans 3:31King James Version (KJV)

            31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

            You say Paul said the law was abolished. He did not. That is a blatant lie.

            Ephesians 2:15King James Version (KJV)

            15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

            Clearly, it says the law of commandments contained in ordinances. Ordinances are different from statutes and commandments. Even if you thought Paul said the law was abolished, Jesus said it was not his purpose to abolish the law or prophets. Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. The purpose is to live in a sin free world. You don’t get a sin free world by abolishing the law. Paul said he would not have known what sin was if not for the law. What you propose fails the common sense test. Peter said the unlearned and unstable would twist Paul’s words unto their own destruction. That is exactly what you are doing. Keeping the law as a means of salvation is works and what you call adultery. If I give a homeless man a dollar from the kindness of my heart, with no expectation, I keep God’s commandments out of love. If I give than man a hundred because I expect God to pay me back in some way, that is works and God does not respect that. It is really a simple concept that only escapes the grasp of a simpler mind. If God’s law flows through Christ and the resurrection, what was David talking about? You are hanging yourself with your own flawed logic. God’s law consists of statutes and commandments.

            Matthew 5:19King James Version (KJV)

            19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

            So, KY, the only one here that is delusional is Edwitness. I don’t believe in works as a means of salvation. I don’t do works with expectation of reward. Don’t allow Ed(satanic)witness to make you believe your works, done for the right reason mean nothing.

            Matthew 25:35-40King James Version (KJV)
            35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

            36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

            37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

            38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

            39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

            40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

            These people were rejected by the Messiah for a lack of works. They are works from the heart, not works for reward. You do not understand anything about the bible. You don’t have a clue what the law is or which ordinances were abolished. You have created a patchwork quilt of scriptures that reflect the lawlessness in your heart. You take literal what you want and create your own symbolism. Here is one scripture that you should take literally.

            Matthew 18:11King James Version (KJV)

            11 For the Son of man is come to save that which WAS lost.

          • twr

            Romans 6:15King James Version (KJV)
            15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

            We can still sin. Sin does still exist. What is sin?

            Sin is missing the mark. If the mark was the law then sin would be breaking the law. But, the law is not the mark in the New Testament. (Edwitness)

            1 John 3:4King James Version (KJV) (NEW TESTAMENT)
            4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

            James 1:25King James Version (KJV) NEW TESTAMENT
            25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

        • Edwitness

          TWR,
          You have said that the mark is the law. You have admitted to worshiping the same idol Israel does. They reject Jesus as messiah as well.
          John 8:24– I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins.

          John said to Jews who had been under the law that for them sin is the transgression of the law because they were given the law. This is how they would understand it. You never hear Paul saying any such thing. Paul said that Jesus abolished the law. Eph.2:15 so that Gentiles and Jews could be made “one new man”. A Christian.

          If the mark is a thing to you, and not the person Jesus Christ, you have missed eternal life. Just like the Pharisees who yelled “crucify Him”! They missed Jesus, the mark, too.

          • twr

            Edwitness,

            You just never stop. Now, you want to tell me that John, who was not apostle to the gentiles was just telling the Jews that for a reason. You know what John was thinking 2,000 years ago. The definition of sin has never changed. If God says don’t do something and you do it, it is a sin, period. The definition of sin is transgression of the law in both testaments. It’s all about keeping the commandments. You can make your mouth say what you want. The proof is keeping the commandments.

            1 John 3:24King James Version (KJV)
            24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

  • Unlike Islam, Christians are told by Christ,
    to pray for your enemies.
    He actually knew we would have enemies, why?
    Because they did not accept Him then, and do
    Not accept Him now.
    So, I pray for you, Amelia,
    And you probably are going to read this and say
    Please don’t, but, the love of Christ, compels
    me! God does answer prayers!
    God bless you, Amelia!

  • Anon

    Geoffrey,
    When you post an article with the headline ‘Italy defies Catholic Church,’ you give credibility to the church of Rome; the apostate church, the synagogue of Satan himself. If the ‘catholic church’ was really opposed to what was happening in Italy, I can assure you it wouldn’t be allowed to happen. Nothing happens anywhere without their approval. It holds the power to control both religion and politics, and everything else under the sun.

  • char

    Amelia, why are you on this website if you don’t believe anything that we are about? Go away and get on to a Satanic website then. You will feel much more at home there. God help you when you are standing in front of Him muttering your feeble excuses for your disbelief in Him.

    • Leigh

      Amen sister Char!
      Amelia Romans 14:11
      For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

      YOU WILL stand before the Almighty God one day, whether you believe it or not!

    • Tusitala

      I always feel that when people come to a Christian site like this to mock and blaspheme that they are lonely, sad, and empty. Imagine how lost you have to be, how marginalized, if you have nothing better to do than cruise around the net hoping to make yourself noticed by being a provocateur. I think about how they grieve the dear heart of Jesus simply so they can feel sophisticated and superior, how truly pathetic that they are so lost. The Lord is very merciful, He waited for me for decades, allowing me to wander and swim in such dark waters, but He never gave up on me. I have no excuse, I am an educated woman, I could have picked up that King James Bible anytime and saved myself so much pain, I could have been living for the Lord all those years, studying and learning, praising His Holy Name. I can never love Jesus enough, never, I thank Him every day for His Grace, what a precious, priceless gift. If you are reading this as a lost person, please know that Jesus loves you, time is growing very, very short, repent, ask Him into your heart right now, He loves You. Do not miss seeing His sweet face in eternity through pride. I almost did and it terrifies me: forever without the Face of God, how horrible. It can happen to you. This is reality, it is not a game.

  • Ed k

    The LBGT victory in Italy will be short lived if indeed Muslim refugees overrun Italy. Hear of Sharia Law that also states that homosexuals must be put to death. Homosexuality has a 6,000 year long record of landing people in hell since the fall of man in the Garden of Eden. However Islam with its mere 13 or 14 hundred years of sending people to hell has landed many times more people in hell than homosexuality. I can just see the Muslims overrunning and taking over Italy, instilling sharia law, and in effect overturning that new law.

    If that happens, we’ll start to see something that hasn’t happened since Roman times in Italy such as crucifixions, stoning, etc. BTW, Satan hates us all (including, but not limited to Hindus, Buddhists,Muslims, LBGT, communists, socialists, atheists, agnostics and yes, Jews and Christians) w/o regard to salvation status, race, “religion”, sins, gender, etc. and will use his Satanic organizations such as Islam, Roman Catholicism, Nazi-ism, cults, etc. to dispose of as many people both saved and unsaved as he can.

    He’s now using LBGT activists to bring on Christian persecution in America & other “free” countries to stop us from reaching the unsaved by making the Bible and the Gospel, “Hate speech”. When he’s done using them, he’s probably planning to throw them under the “Sharia Law bus” before using the Antichrist to dispose of them and send them to hell with the billions of other unsaved people.

    He can kill our bodies, but not our souls if we’re saved. He is on a mission to send as many unsaved people to Hell as he can while at the same time trying to put us saved out of commission by sending us to Heaven as we threaten his hellish agenda and vendetta against humanity by warning the unsaved with the Gospel and getting them saved & on their way to Heaven before he can have them killed and in Hell.

    Misery indeed likes company and the Devil who knows he’s headed to the Lake of Fire is no exception to that rule. He wants as many to spend eternity burning with him as he can trick into using for his agenda so he can add to their torment.

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  • Tusitala

    What terrible blasphemy, two men embracing one another, what are they thinking, it is a disgusting perversion of the beautiful gift of marital sexual intimacy God granted one man and one woman when they are wed. My heart aches for gays, transgender, bisexual people even in their horrible sin and error because so much of the world instead of praying for them and leading them to the Lord are telling them that what they do is honorable and fine. Dear Jesus, please some back soon, I am afraid for all of us as we face this abyss of filth and lies.

  • David Boles

    How many times does this make that I’ve posted this?! When will somebody finally get it?! The REAL issue is NOT the TINY 1/2 of 1% of the population of same-sex couples (Google that!), not all of whom even want to get married, is blown way out of proportion! Do you forget that God hates divorce (Malachi 2:14-16), and that Jesus calls remarried divorcees adulterers, and that as adulterers, remarried divorcees (those who do not qualify for the “loophole” of divorcing because of INFIDELITY) sit right NEXT to homosexuals in a list of sinners “who will have no share in the Kingdom of God” (I Cor. 6:9,10)? All this anti-gay marriage rhetoric is nothing but bigoted scapegoating. Arch-conservative Cal Thomas, Los Angeles Times Syndicate so aplty stated (5/20/04),  “… Pro family groups have given it their best shot, but this debate is over. They would do better to spend their energy and resources building up their side of the cultural divide and demonstrating how their own precepts are supposed to work. DIVORCE remains a GREAT THREAT to FAMILY STABILITY, and there are far more HETEROSEXUALS DIVORCING AND COHABITING than homosexuals wishing to ‘marry.’  If conservative religious people wish to exert maximum influence on culture, they will redirect their attention to REPAIRIING THEIR OWN CRACKED FOUNDATION.  An improved heterosexual family *structure will do more for those families and the greater good than attempts to halt the inevitable.” [i.e., legalization of same-sex marriages]…
    What a classic case of PROJECTION!: The most common “ego defense mechanism.” Placing blame for one’s difficulties upon others, or attributing one’s own unethical desires to others.  Projecting onto others the very patholoy one is not willing to see in himself.

    1/2 of 1% of the population! Heterosexuals and their sins represent the VAST MAJORITY of the population. Jesus is not impressed with hypocrisy!

    *Fathers, stay home or marry the woman you got pregnant to be the male-gender identification role model your sons desperately require of you instead of abandoning them to be reared by their mothers!

    Mothers make boys.  Fathers make men. by Dr. James Dobson:

    "Based on my work with adult homosexuals, I try to avoid the necessity of a long and sometimes painful therapy by encouraging parents, particularly the FATHERS, to affirm their sons' maleness.  Parental education, in this area and all others, can prevent a lifetime of unhappiness and a sense of alienation.  When boys begin to relate to their fathers, and begin to understand what is exciting, fun and energizing about their fathers, they will learn to accept their own masculinity.  They will find a sense of freedom, of power, by being different from their mothers, outgrowing them as they move into a man's world.  If parents encourage their sons in these ways, they will help them develop masculine identities and be well on their way to growing up straight.  In 15 years, I have spoken with hundreds of homosexual men.  I have never met one who said he had a loving, respectful relationship with his father." (Dr. Joseph Nicolosi Preventing Homosexuality, a Family Guide  chap.1. Used by permission in Bringing up Boys. Dr. James Dobson chap.9)

    Homosexuals DO NOT CHOOSE TO BE GAY! Neither gays nor straights are “BORN THAT WAY”! SNAP OUT OF IT!

    • Edwitness

      David Boles,
      You quote psychology and make excuses. But, God says it is a choice. Rom.1:22-28

      “Proffessing themselves to be wise they became fools”. “Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator”. Idolatry being their first choice they come to this chosen end. “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections (their choice): for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature (again their choice): And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman (their **choice), burned in their lust one toward another; MEN WITH MEN working that which is unseemly**, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet”.

      The “in themselves” part is where we see the flamboyance in the homosexual. It is generally outwardly apparent.
      Now you SNAP OUT OF IT! David.
      REPENT!
      No more excuses

    • Edwitness

      David Boles,
      Psychology- The wisdom of this world. 1st Cor.1:20

  • David Boles

    “What terrible blasphemy, two men embracing one another…” I grew up in a household where my parents fought constantly! Dishes were broken, doors were slammed so hard one came off its hinges once. Screaming and yelling. No love, certainly no “embracing one another.” Now, tell me again about blasphemy! I wish my father had embraced me! BOYS GROWING UP NEED THEIR FATHERS TO LOVE THEM AND TO SHOW IT SO THEY AREN NOT DEPRIVED OF THE DAD-LOVE THEY SO DESPERATELY NEED!
    I guess my father thought it was too “homo” so show affection to me growing up. Heads up fathers! All dads with boys NEED to read this:

    “When Passions are Confused,” by Jeff Olson, RBC Ministries (Radio BIBLE Class):
     
    SAME-SEX PARENT:  “All children long to connect emotionally with their parents, especially their SAME-SEX PARENT.  This relationship is a vital part in the process of growing to feel complete and secure as males and females.  When a child grows up feeling emotionally cut off from his or her same-sex parent, whether it’s real or imagined, it interrupts this process.  If the distance continues, the process never resumes, leaving the child feeling rejected, empty, and insecure as a boy or girl.  Deep down inside, the child senses that something critical is missing, which can cause a child to seriously question his or her identity as a boy or girl…Pulling away and hiding the desire for connection with their same-sex parent didn’t make the desire go away.  It unknowingly caused the desire to grow stronger.  When sexual desires start to emerge around the age of adolescence, the buried yet growing unmet desire for same-sex love and connection can subtly merge with sexual desires.  As adolescents are attracted to what’s missing, and as they experience moments (whether actual or fantasized) when they sense someone touching their unsatisfied desire for same-sex love, their bodies may respond sexually.”

    • Edwitness

      David Boles,
      What do you get when you put 20 feel sorry for themselves homos in a basement?
      Answer- A whine cellar.

      Stop whining about how difficult your childhood was and start taking responsibility for your own choices. Jesus knows our circumstances and has made the way for us to choose to be the men and women of God He intended for us to be. Rom.6:7,8. “** For he that is dead is freed from sin**. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him:” And Rom.6:14. “For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law, but under grace”.

      The only power sin has in your life is what you choose to give it.

    • tiptopsaidhe

      David B – wrote “(those who do not qualify for the “loophole” of divorcing because of INFIDELITY)” The loophole only served early century Jews in the betrothal tradition. It was for a report of prostitution (fornication) prior to the wedding. The man could remarry and the woman was stoned. It doesn’t apply to anyone living today, and neither the gospel of Mark nor Luke acknowledge it at all because theirs weren’t written to traditional Jewish audiences. Though marital infidelity is certainly a reason to divorce, all remarriages after divorce are considered adultery if a covenant spouse is still living. Forgiveness is certainly available to all who repent of unlawful remarriage and return to stand within their covenant vow, regardless of how their covenant spouse responds to their repentance. You are correct, though, in your stance. If the church can perform an unlawful wedding for someone who is divorced while a covenant spouse is still living, the church can certainly perform an unlawful gay wedding. It used to be called hypocrisy when church folk didn’t walk the talk. Now it’s called grace.

      Dr. Dobson’s quote is right about boys and fathers. All boys are wired to protect, to win battles, to be the hero. We are wired for respect and authority. All fathers were built the same way, so there is no disconnect between the male minds or hearts. The disconnect is from the mothers, who are wired by God to love (a great gift), not respect. At the fall, God gave Eve the spirit to usurp Adam’s position as head over her. Every woman since naturally seeks control. Her love for her son includes working to control the situations to protect him from her fears, in the name of love. “I don’t want him playing football because I love him and don’t want to see him get hurt.” Only a woman who has been drawn by God to know Christ as her savior has any chance at all of properly relating to her son (or any male), and that is only because Christ in her would be the one relating to the son. We live in a culture that has no idea how to respect the men inside of little boys. We don’t show them respect when they pick up a toy gun and a shield and say “I’m going to protect you mommy from the bad guys.” We tell them “Oh honey, I love you, and we don’t play with guns.” When he hears it displeases her, he shuts it down to honor her, and part of his heart shuts down also. We don’t cheer for them when they pretend to win the game with a last second heroic shot. That is him rehearsing for the battle for the princess (who she once longed to be) that lays ahead. When she doesn’t acknowledge the victory, a part of him wonders why he keeps making efforts to win for her. We don’t say how much we admire them for wanting to stay home and care for mommy when she isn’t feeling good. That is him practicing how to stand guard over what has been assigned to him. When his desire isn’t noted, he feels it as contemptuous and part of his caring heart hardens. A boy wants to know he is valiant and worthy. He knows his mom and dad love him, because they have to. He wants to know they “like” who he is and who he dreams of becoming, regardless of his performance. Father’s grew up rehearsing for the same battle as their sons. Mom’s didn’t. They just forgot what it was like when they were dreaming of being rescued up into the arms of a hero. Maybe their dads didn’t have Christ to model them love, and how a hero never stops working to show her how lovable she really is. Without Christ, we are broken.

      Gay men don’t love each other. It’s not how men are wired. God commanded a man to love his wife unconditionally (Eph 5:33) because we can’t do it on our own. At the fall, when God put the spirit in Eve to usurp Adam’s authority, Adam became defender of his position, not lover of her rebellious spirit to replace him. In fact, without Christ in a man, he has little chance of unconditionally loving his wife (meaning loving her even when she isn’t acting lovable). If we aren’t wired to love a woman, whom God designed so that we shouldn’t be alone, God certainly didn’t wire us to love other men. Men can, however, build a relationship from living life in a shoulder-to-shoulder way. Meaning, men develop camaraderie through spending time in activities they both enjoy, or in activities of common work or goals. Soldiers develop life long friendships during combat times because they share the same intentions and goals to fulfill a mission. Hikers or bikers or golfers build life long friendships over the common activities. That’s how men are wired. That’s how men relate. When it moves away from that design, it becomes perversions and rebellion to satisfy fleshly lusts. Those aren’t from God.

      • Edwitness

        TTHS,
        Thanks but no clarification is needed. Especially when it is wrong.
        Paul said that the law Jews are to be “delivered from” is the law that includes thou shalt not covet. Rom.7:6,7. Last I checked that was part of the 10 commandments (moral law) and the ordinances that Luke says Zechariah and Elisabeth lived “blameless”. Luke 1:6 “And they were both righteous before God, walking (as a way of life) in ALL the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless“. TTHS, the whole law is done away with in Christ.

        And TWR is wrong as usual too. The law is not made for the righteous man. Only the wicked. 1st Tim.1:8-11. As it was for Israel, when the law is used lawfully, it keeps men from destroying one another. Nothing more. It is not for the Christian.

        And it certainly can not save anyone. Those who were saved in the Old Testament were saved by their faith in God, and not their keeping of the law, just as we who have trusted in Christ are now. The difference for them was that Jesus had not come yet. They were given the law to keep them alive as a people separated unto God by their trust in Him until faith came.

        Even then Israel was not looking for Jesus. They rejected the notion of a dying savior. They believed they would immediately share with their savior the rulership of the world when he came. That is why Peter rebuked Jesus when He told them He would die. Jews were not saved by looking forward to the cross as some teach. They rejected the notion of a dying savior. Those who were saved were so through their trust in God. The keeping of the law had zero to do with it. That is why God gave them Duet.28. Blessings for obedience. And cursing so for disobedience. That is all the law could do.

  • twr

    tiptopsaidhe,

    A loot of people need clarification. Bishop Edwitness believes there is no sin because there is no law. That is lawlessness. You think God is concerned about man’s law? Who said there was an exception for the Sabbath? Where is it written that Christ became the Sabbath?

    Malachi 3:6King James Version (KJV)
    6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

    When people tell you God changed something, it better be in writing and crystal clear.

    Luke 4:16King James Version (KJV)
    16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

    Acts 17:2King James Version (KJV)
    2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

    Just because they broke bread and went house to house on other days, didn’t change the Sabbath. Paul told them to collect an offering the first day so that when he got there on Sabbath, they wouldn’t have to bother. I have heard it all. The Sabbath is so serious, even the land has to keep it.

    Leviticus 26:34King James Version (KJV)
    34 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies’ land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.

    Let no man judge you or dissuade you from observing these things. They are shadows of things to come. When the kingdom is here these laws will be the standard. Christ as our Sabbath means rest. Sabbath is a day of rest. It does not mean Christ literally took the place of the Sabbath. The faith is a journey. We die daily as we sometimes slowly see the need for God’s moral code.

    • tiptopsaidhe

      Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
      Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
      Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
      Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
      Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
      Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
      Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
      Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
      Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
      Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
      Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

      He is asking us that our only efforts are to rely upon the work that Christ did for us on the cross…our work is finished in His. He ends in v11 by saying that if we continue to effort to “help,” it is unbelief that Jesus is Messiah.

      I also already quoted Col 2, but will again:

      Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
      Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

      Paul says we, as followers of Christ, aren’t bound by any of those things he mentioned. If we are holding on to any “certain” things, like a certain day to worship as a requirement, we are efforting for a righteousness that we can’t attain, for it can only be attained by Jesus. Either we rely on Him to be all (rest in His righteousness as accomplishing all God required), or we must rely upon ourself for all.

      • Edwitness

        TTHS,
        Now that I can agree with. 🙂

  • twr

    KY,

    God is not a fool. He expected Israel to know the whole law and try their best to keep it. He did make provision for occasional shortcomings. It was called a sacrifice. The sacrifice made nothing perfect so he sent a greater sacrifice. Jesus didn’t die for sin you commit today. This is the part of the bible everyone ignores.

    Matthew 18:11King James Version (KJV)
    11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

    Jesus never said he came to die for all. We all benefitted in him releasing us from the law of sin and death so we might all have a chance. What he died for is altogether different.

    Matthew 20:28King James Version (KJV)
    28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

    The many he gave his life in ransom for can be found in Hebrews 9:15.

    Hebrews 9:15King James Version (KJV)
    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the TRANSGRESSIONS that were under the FIRST TESTAMENT, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    Jesus didn’t die for the sins committed willingly 2000 years later. Paul is talking to people that lived 2,000 years ago, who were actually under the law. How we apply everything he said to them to us today, who were never under the law, is a mystery.

    • Edwitness

      TWR,
      While it is true that Paul wrote many things to his brethren, the Jews, he was the apostle to the Gentiles. Not the Jews. That being true, why would Jesus separate him to such a task if salvation is only for Israel? And not for the whole world as John 3:16 says? And doesn’t the scripture say that the way we were released from the law of sin and death was through Jesus? How can this be if Jesus only came for Israel?

      • twr

        Edwitness,

        Did I say salvation was only for Israel? I did not. I repeated scripture. Why is it you want to go by the letter of scripture until you don’t agree? Then you want to interpret. How many times did Jesus repeat that he only came for the lost sheep?

        Matthew 10:5-6King James Version (KJV)
        5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
        6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

        If he came for gentiles, he would have not specified his message not go to gentiles. Gentile ministry came after his death and resurrection. That doesn’t mean gentiles are not the beneficiary of his sacrifice. However, it does mean he did not die for your sins or mine. His death released us all from original sin so we could have a chance at the promise of everlasting life. We will still all be judged, good or bad. If we are judged, it has to be based on something. You want a clue as to what it is?

        Matthew 19:17-19King James Version (KJV)
        17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

        18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

        19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

        • Edwitness

          TWR,
          I have been too patient with you. My bad. I am going to go to the source of our inability to communicate.

          Is the Jesus you believe in almighty God? Is He the great I AM? No! Then all that you have said means nothing. Until you come to faith in the true God Jesus Christ, you are a dead man. A natural man. And “the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned”.
          1 Cor.2:14

          No wonder you worship the law. You have rejected the savior. The everlasting Father and the great I AM.

          Until you are born again you will not see the kingdom of God. You can not be born again until you believe that Jesus is the Creator God.

          • twr

            Edwitness,

            I’m not sweating you or Christianity. Your religion is an illusion achieved by deception. You are taught to read the bible as if you are being spoken to.

            Matthew 24:33-35King James Version (KJV)
            33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

            34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

            35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

            In this conversation, Jesus in on the mount of olives having an A&B conversation with his disciples. He is telling them the current generation will not pass till all things be fulfilled. He wasn’t talking to you or people 2,000 years later.

            Mark 9:1King James Version (KJV)
            9 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

            Same here. He is telling the disciples and the crowd that some standing there in the crowd will see the kingdom of God come with power.

            Revelation 1:7King James Version (KJV)
            7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

            He says those who pierced him will see him. Either everything Christians believe will happen already happened, or Jesus was delusional. If he is God as you say, he said heaven and earth would pass before his word. Either way, Christians are the victim of deception because they are taught and taught to read in a manner that does not acknowledge the subject of communication, while becoming that subject. Stick to your mythology. I’ll stick to my faith.

          • twr

            Edwitness,

            No response? I’m shocked. If you believe that Jesus is almighty God, then you must know everything he said would happen, and everything Christians believe will happen has already happened.

            Mark 9:1King James Version (KJV)
            9 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

            Jesus was talking to his disciples and a multitude some 2,000 years ago. He was not talking to Christians today. Jesus said some of them standing right before him would not taste death before they saw the kingdom of God come with power. That means if it was going to happen, it already happened. God’s word does not come back void.

            Matthew 24:33-35King James Version (KJV)
            33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

            34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

            35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

            The you in this scripture is the disciples on the mount of olives. It is not Christians today. God told his disciples heaven and earth would pass away before his words passed away. God said THIS generation, meaning the generation during the disciples time, not 2,000 years from then. Did he lie to his disciples? Was he a man with delusions of grandeur? I would like to hear how you explain this Edwitness.

        • Edwitness

          TWR,
          Is the Jesus you believe in almighty God? No! Then all that you have said means nothing. Until you come to faith in the true God Jesus Christ, the one who is from everlasting to everlasting, the one who has no beginning and no end, you are a dead man. A natural man. And “the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned”. 1 Cor.2:14
          You can not be born again because you worship a false god. You are deceived to the extent that you have bowed your knee to an idol. You worship and trust in the law. You are the one who has no clue. And now everyone knows why.
          REPENT FROM YOUR IDOLS.

        • Edwitness

          TWR,
          Natural words from a natural man. Sorry, flesh and blood will never inherit the kingdom of God. You must be born again.

  • David Boles

    What is the purpose of the Law?

    Now do you see it? No one can ever be made right in God’s sight by doing what the law commands. For the more we know of God’s laws, the clearer it becomes that we aren’t obeying them; his laws serve only to make us see that we are sinners.
    But now God has shown us a different way to heaven—not by “being good enough” and trying to keep his laws, but by a new way (though not new, really, for the Scriptures told about it long ago). Now God says he will accept and acquit us—declare us “not guilty”—if we trust Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, by coming to Christ, no matter who we are or what we have been like. Yes, all have sinned; all fall short of God’s glorious ideal; yet now God declares us “not guilty” of offending him if we trust in Jesus Christ, who in his kindness freely takes away our sins. (Romans 3:20-24 TLB)

    “And the person who keeps every law of God but makes one little slip is just as guilty as the person who has broken every law there is.” (James 2:10 TLB)

    I “keep” the law as a list hung on my wall for occasional reference to remind me of my need for Christ and what He has done for me. “Thanks be to God. Jesus Christ has set me free!”

    • twr

      David Boles,

      Your premise is ludicrous. The purpose of the law is to train you in righteousness. The law for the Israelites was quid pro quo. If you keep these laws I will set you above every nation. In order for God to include the gentiles, that covenant had to be done away with and there had to be voluntary acceptance of God’s law by all. The more we submit ourselves to the law of God, not the curse of Israel, the closer we become to God. We are all going to slip, but we are not all going to stay in sin. It is a daily battle.

      Ecclesiastes 12:14King James Version (KJV)
      14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

      2 Corinthians 5:10King James Version (KJV)
      10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

      Revelation 20:12-13King James Version (KJV)
      12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

      13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works

      The bible, not me says men will be judged according to the works Edwitness said caused me to be lost. If all your sins have been forgiven, what is the purpose of judgment. You reap what you sow. Your works and righteousness are how you will be rewarded in the kingdom. That is the importance of the law.

  • David Boles

    Such a deliberate lack of basic understanding about human sexuality some people have! Edwitness, since when did you CHOOSE to be “straight”? I have my doubts about your own professed HETEROsexuality. Did you ever Google ” bigots are buggers “? Please try to stop being a close-minded bigot and learn some realities about human sexuality. And where do you get that ridiculous notion that gays cannot fall in love? Do heterosexuals want to get married JUST FOR SEX?

    Maybe this report will help:

    STRAIGHT MEN’S BRAINS:

    Female beauty affects men like food, drugs, study says
    Associated press Nov. 10, 2001

    Boston—
     Seeing a beautiful woman triggers a pleasure response in a man¹s brain similar to what a hungry person gets from eating or an addict gets from a fix, scientists say.
    Researchers said the study, published Wednesday in the journal Neuron, shows that feminine beauty affects a man¹s brain at a primal level, not on some higher, more intellectual plane.
    “Beauty is working similar to a drug,” said Dan Ariely of Massachusetts Institute of Technology¹s Sloan School of Management and a co-author of the study.
    Researchers showed a group of heterosexual men in their mid-20¹s pictures of men and women of varying attractiveness, while measuring the brain’s responses through computer imaging.
    The beautiful women were found to activate the same “reward circuits” as food and cocaine does.  The men had a negative reaction to pictures of good-looking males, suggesting that they were threatened by them, study author Hans Breiter said.
    Breiter said evidence that female beauty in the brains of heterosexual men stimulates these primal brain circuits has never been shown.

    When viewing same-sex subjects, do homosexuals’ brains react the same way as heterosexuals’ brains?  Perhaps homosexuals can’t help feeling homosexual feelings—at a primal level, not on some higher, more intellectual plane—any more than heterosexuals can help feeling heterosexual feelings!

    This article raises some questions doesn’t it?  Do heterosexual men MAKE themselves feel attracted to beautiful women BY CHOICE, because they know it’s the normal, natural, even morally Christian thing to do?  Or do you suppose they can’t help feeling these wonderful feelings when looking at a beautiful woman?  Would a heterosexual man be able to STOP feeling these feelings for OTHER women once he gets married, feeling them ONLY for his wife? And the straight men in this study didn’t feel pleasurable feelings like these for other men!  If they did, what would that mean? What if the computer images of his brain’s pleasure centers lit up? What if his pupils dilated? These are autonomic nervous system responses. Do you suppose homosexual men feel these kinds of “pleasure response” feelings in their primal brain circuits when looking at beautiful men?  Or is the gay brain somehow different than the straight man’s brain?  Maybe you do not want to believe they would because you have a secret “agenda” of hiding your own homosexual urges from others. Maybe homosexuality is indeed “hardwired” after all. Perhaps homosexuals can’t help feeling pleasurable homosexual feelings, including romantic feelings and love, any more than heterosexuals can help feeling pleasurable heterosexual feelings—”at a primal level, not on some higher, more intellectual plane.”

    What if people were given tests of the autonomic nervous system using pupilometers (pupils dilate at the sight of sexually stimulating subjects), plethysmographs that record penile arousal, and computer imaging? Wouldn’t such experiments indicate that sexual attractions and romantic feelings are embedded deep in the subconscious?  Surely then certain things hidden would be revealed! But perhaps all this should best be swept under the rug.  Imagine the Orwellian, even Hitlerian implications if people were routinely tested for their sexualities in this manner!

    • Edwitness

      David Boles,
      There is no choice necassary for a person to be “straight”. God made all people heterosexual. He said be fruitful and multiply. Something that is impossible under natural circumstances for a homo to do. The choice that a homo makes is to first reject the true God and replace Him with an idol. Then that choice makes a man to lay with a man and a woman with a woman. Because of the idol they have chosen.

      Being heterosexual is not a choice. It is the way God makes every man and woman. Homosexuals are an abomination by choice.

  • twr

    Edwitness,

    You clearly don’t have a clue what works are.

    Revelation 20:12-13King James Version (KJV)

    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works

    Every man will be judged according to his works. We don’t need any works but we will be judged by them? There are two types of works.

    • Edwitness

      TWR,
      We have established the fact that you do not believe that Jesus is the I AM of the old and new testaments. This means you are not born again. And Jesus said unless a man is born again he can not see the kingdom of God. John 3:1-8. Jesus also said “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins”. John 8:24
      This means you have no ability to understand the scriptures.
      You trust in works and a false Christ. You must repent in order to begin to receive the wisdom of God. Proverbs 9:10.

      • twr

        Edwitness,

        That is code for you can’t answer the question. You know everything else, or at least pretend to. Just say you can’t answer the question.

        • Edwitness

          TWR,
          I have answered your nonsense before with always the same results. The babblings of an unbeliever. Your natural mind will never comprehend the deeper truths of God. And until you are born again you will be blinded to the truth by your father the devil. As long as you trust in a Jesus that is not the Creator God, you will remain in your natural stupor.
          FODDER FOR SATAN!

          “He was in the world, and the world was MADE BY HIM, and the world knew Him not. He came to His own (Israel), and **His own received Him not.

          But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: Which were born, not of blood (a person’s ancestry does not matter), nor of the will of the flesh (will power does nothing), nor of the will of man (legacy means nothing), BUT OF GOD. John 1:10-13

          All of your natural man produced nonsense dispelled in these verses. Trust in the true Jesus for real understanding. You must be born again

          • twr

            Edwitness,

            Why don’t you try believing what you read. He came unto his own. Those of his own (Israel) that believed, he gave them the chance to become sons of God.

            Matthew 15:24King James Version (KJV)
            24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

            Matthew 15:26King James Version (KJV)
            26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs (gentiles).

            Matthew 18:11King James Version (KJV)
            11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost(his only purpose).

            Matthew 10:5-7King James Version (KJV)
            5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

            6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

            7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

            Mark 9:1King James Version (KJV)
            9 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them (Israelites)that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

            Matthew 20:28King James Version (KJV)
            28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many (Israelites).

            Hebrews 9:15King James Version (KJV)

            15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the (Israelites) transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

            I’m not worried about your stupidity. He didn’t come for gentiles, talk to gentiles, or die for gentiles. Don’t take my word for it. Read it for yourself. Learn to read and discern before you pass judgment on me. It’s called strong delusion.

      • Twr

        Edwitness,

        That just means you are incapable of answering the question. You pretend to know everything else. How could Jesus be talking to the disciples and us at the same time?

        • Edwitness

          TWR,
          The verses I gave were consecutive. In context. Unlike you who has to jump around to force your natural view on the scripture. Jesus offered the gift first to Israel, and when they rejected Him, He offered the very same gift to the rest of mankind. Praise the Creator, Jesus Christ, for His wonderful love. Until you are born again you will not understand the kingdom of God.

          • twr

            Edwitness,

            Isaiah 28:10King James Version (KJV)
            10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

            It doesn’t matter about consecutive when it comes to context. The bible doesn’t say he offered the same gift to mankind. It said as many of his own kind that received him, he gave them that gift. If he offered it to mankind, why did he say he only came for the lost sheep? Why did he tell his disciples do not go to the gentiles? Gentiles weren’t included until after the resurrection because he did not come for them. God was closing out the first testament and giving those Israelites the promise of the kingdom. That is why he preached the kingdom is at hand. It was at hand for those Israelites. He told those Israelites that generation would not pass until those things were fulfilled. That is common sense. For God so loved the world didn’t mean everybody who ever walked on it. Also common sense.

            Result of search for “world”:
            165. aion ahee-ohn’ from the same as 104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future):–age, course,

            Their world was closed out and the promise delivered. Everybody who came after has a different path to the kingdom. That is what it was saying when it talked about 2 women grinding at the mill or two men in the field and only one was taken. Jesus only died for first testament Israelites. It says it right in Hebrews 9:15. Everything they have sold Christians about what is to come has already happened. You want to be right so bad that you will accept a lie and lose your soul. Good luck to you.

  • Edwitness

    TWR,
    There is clear teaching from Paul that explains the judgment of the works of Christians. It is strictly for rewards. Not for salvation. 1 Cor.3:12-15
    Vs.15- If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss (does not receive the reward): but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

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