‘Burning Man’ Draws 68,000 To America’s Largest Pagan Cult Gathering

The art theme this year is ‘Cult Cargo’ and focuses on a strange being called John Frum. 'He is known to us by many names, this Visitor from Elsewhere,...

“Then said I unto them, Cast ye away every man the abominations of his eyes, and defile not yourselves with the idols of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.” Ezekiel 20:7

The adherents to this religion are appropriately called “burners”, and the Burning Man Pagan Festival began like this:

“Burning Man stems from a small group of free-spirited artists in the San Francisco area who got together to burn a wooden effigy on the beach in 1986; and the little beach event has grown to an annual gathering of nearly 70,000 attendees and has moved to the Black Rock Desert of Nevada, where hippies, yuppies and wannabe bohemians of every type meet up and enjoy a week of crazy self-expression, self-reliance and communal craziness.” source – Explorer News


A worshipper praying to her pagan god, Osiris, at Burning Man 2013

But the reality of the Burning Man is much closer to worship of the gods of the underworld than it is to Woodstock. Every manner of perversion and occultic practice is on open display during the annual Labor Day Weekend extravaganza. This is Old Testament Baal worship on overdrive. Here is a report on this year’s Burning Man theme:

“By morning on Wednesday, there were 15 streets circling the temporary city created by attendees and the forecast remains free of dust storms. Many have been impressed by the size and look of this year’s Man Base, a structure that houses the iconic ‘Man’ figure burned each year near the event’s close. Inside a flying saucer under the Man is a multi-level structure with zoetropes, a giant chandelier and views of Black Rock City. Slides serve as exits. 


Everything that the Bible says that God hates, like idol worship and sacrificing to false gods, is on full display all week long.

The art theme this year is ‘Cult Cargo’ and focuses on a strange being called John Frum. ‘He is known to us by many names, this Visitor from Elsewhere, dispenser of endless abundance and wielder of mysterious technologies: John Frum, Quetzalcoatl, Osiris, “Bob,”‘ reads the website. ‘His cargo is splendid, his generosity boundless, his motives beyond our understanding. But across the ages and around the world, the stories all agree: one day he will return, bearing great gifts. ‘Our theme this year asks three related questions; who is John Frum, where is he really from, and where, on spaceship Earth, are we all going?'” source – Daily Mail UK


One of the many temples in Burning Man City. You can clearly see the All-Seeing Eye of Horus, various fallen angels, and leaders of the Satanist movement.

Bringing back the gods

The leaders of this massive gathering have a stated, open and obvious aim: to prepare their followers for the appearance of a mystical man from Outer Space to lead them. And with nearly 70,000 worshippers in attendance, this pagan church in the desert is rapidly spreading their religion. Of course, regular readers of the bible know exactly who this man is. The bible describes him this way:


The “grand finale’ of Burning Man 2013 is a Genesis 6 giant-sized man burning in the everlasting torments and flames of Hell. Party on, people, it’s gonna be a rude awakening.

“And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.” Revelation 13:13,14

The Devil and all His followers are fascinated with fire and things burning. This is easy to understand as Hell is filled with fire and those there will burn forever and ever. The ironic twist to it all is that the Devil Himself will burn in the fires of His own Hell.


The massive, sprawling expanse of this year’s Burning Man festival with it’s city in the shape of a UFO.

It is no coincidence that as we get closer to the end times events described in the Bible, that the dark underworld of Satan will dramatically rise and assume a larger and larger role in our everyday society. Everything that the Burning Man festivals stand for is described in the Bible as things that God hates. False gods, idol worship, the groves…all these things incurred God’s wrath on the practicers.

“But they rebelled against me, and would not hearken unto me: they did not every man cast away the abominations of their eyes, neither did they forsake the idols of Egypt: then I said, I will pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the midst of the land of Egypt.” Ezekiel 20: 8

The time is short, the hour has grown late and the sky above us is ever-darkening. All those who practice these abominations and spit in the face of the Holy God of Israel will one Day soon feel the wrath that fell upon the people of Noah’s day in the flood, and Lot’s day with the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Tear down your idols and ask the Lord Jesus Christ to save you.

Before it’s too late.



NTEB is run by end times author and editor-in-chief Geoffrey Grider. Geoffrey runs a successful web design company, and is a full-time minister of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. In addition to running NOW THE END BEGINS, he has a dynamic street preaching outreach and tract ministry team in Saint Augustine, FL.
  • Psalm 36:1 The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes.

    2 For he flattereth himself in his own eyes, until his iniquity be found to be hateful.

    3 The words of his mouth are iniquity and deceit: he hath left off to be wise, and to do good.

    4 He deviseth mischief upon his bed; he setteth himself in a way that is not good; he abhorreth not evil.

    5 Thy mercy, O LORD, is in the heavens; and thy faithfulness reacheth unto the clouds.

    6 Thy righteousness is like the great mountains; thy judgments are a great deep: O LORD, thou preservest man and beast.

    7How excellent is thy lovingkindness, O God! therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of thy wings.

    8They shall be abundantly satisfied with the fatness of thy house; and thou shalt make them drink of the river of thy pleasures.

    9 For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.

    10 O continue thy lovingkindness unto them that know thee; and thy righteousness to the upright in heart.

    11 Let not the foot of pride come against me, and let not the hand of the wicked remove me.

    12 There are the workers of iniquity fallen: they are cast down, and shall not be able to rise.

  • My hair stands up. I live in Northern Co and when I moved here 23 yrs ago, it was rumored a lot of Cult activity. I know there are Palm readers in towns near and we had one shop here in town and we prayed and after awhile they left. Our HS Mascot on the HUGE walls is a wizard and I cant look at it. even when I worked in the kitchen facing it. This is freaky

    • Amen!!! Teresa, There is so much going on around the world. Not just this abomination called the burning man. So many cults small and large in every corner of this world, so many people are doing what Romans 1 says changing the incorruptible God into the corruptible things of man through their vain imaginations and thus they are turned over to a debased mind. God Bless You Teresa!!! Keep up the good work. Frank

      • Good Morning Frank, I tried to find more info on this and its blurry or ? I got that it is not a real person but yet they think he/it will save them? I need to read it better. I just read Veronica I think is one and a Christian? Just not sure how that works but will ask her! You have a great day w the Lord!

      • Well I got to admit, they have the right title for their gathering. Because that is what they will be, if they don’t repent and come to Jesus…Burning man!!! Burning in Hell!! 🙂

      • @ Frank, big problem is that is coming into the churches in huge waves. Many so called pastors, now are accepting New Age techniques and teachings. And the people blindly follow, because they do not know the Word of God for themselves! Fools, blind leading the blind!! I’d say this is all a big start of the Great falling away, the Bible talks about. It’s really all about self worship. They think if they worship the false gods, that they will eventually become gods themselves. What a crock!!! May the Lord help us to know his word and be able to discern what is truth and what is lies from the evil one!!! And all these new age so called bible versions, is helping to make this all come about!! Be fore-warned!!!

    • a lot of people are praying for thinkers like you. no not the painting what represents obviously you do not understand. What would an UN Closed Minded Christian say certainly not what you referenced in re to the Topic of today. He would say to speak truth in Love which was said on here today. The hate came from your side, and really you talk about what the Bible says and use profanity? That in itself says you know NOTHING at all about Jesus Christ. You have a good day.

      • Amen Teresa B.
        Where is the NTEB moderator? Profanity is not supposed to be allowed on this site.

        • Good Morning, who knows where anyone is on here! I am only on to talk when my name appears, soon as that’s done then ghandi I am. Don’t want to be rude:)
          You have a wonderful day w the Lord!

          • @Teresa B., I understand and agree. There is something “wrong” here on this site. But, as I’ve said before, it did not use to be this way.
            I’m thinking about moving on too.
            I have your email address. Will do so soon.
            You have a Blessed Day.

          • thank you mam, yes not for me. Am glad others feel blessed tho! Yes write me want to ask you something privately 🙂

  • Shame, Shame on those evil followers of satan! They NEED Jesus Christ in their Hearts Now! Father in Heaven I Pray for these people, that Your Son Jesus Christ makes His Way into Their Hearts and Minds, Please drive away satan and his evil plans, I Ask this in Jesus Name I Pray, AMEN! Everyone, Jesus is The Way the Truth and The Life, No one Comes to The Father , but, Through Me ( Jesus Christ ).

    In His Service, YSIC \o/
    Kristi Ann

    • Amen Kristi Ann,
      I love spontaneous prayer people. On my Fridge I have a poem:
      Something happens when we pray
      Powers of darkness lose their sway
      We gain strength and fears give way
      THEREFORE Let us pray!

      • Hi Kevin good to see you, thank you for that Poem/Prayer! Hope all is well, Blessings in His Name

    • @Kristi, while I appreciate your sweet prayer, and they certainly need prayer, and they certainly need the Lord in their hearts. I have to tell you that Satan and his evil plans will continue until Jesus comes back! Then Christ will toss him into the pit for a 1,000 years! But until then, him and his plans will continue. I’m sure you already knew that. It’s all written in the Bible dear. All will go according to Gods wonderful plan. Take heart God is on the Throne, and his plan is the big one, and his will, WILL be done, in earth as it is in Heaven, Praise God!!!

  • There is a burning man festival right here in Washington State, too at a place called “The Gorge”. I think it is at some Columbia River Gorge, not sure, but it is a celebration from hell from what I have heard. Disgraceful.

    • This is just my thoughts, but I can see these things increasing all over the US and all over the world. Bringing the world into “unity” so then the Anti-christ can come on the scene, and be the powerful, enlightened one they have been seeking for…hmmm, just a thought!!! 🙂 Glory to God, it is all getting closer!! Keep your eyes open, and be looking for the Lord to be setting all things up for his return, he is even using these fools!! Praise God!!

  • Please share this post with as many as you can, so many people are telling me they have never heard of it. Let’s get the word out!

    • NTEB, how can we copy it so it shows the pictures. I copied and pasted on another site, but the pictures didn’t show…:-( Another Great post by the way!! Love in Christ, suez

  • I am fairly sure those ‘many’ have already heard, that is why they go. Like it has been written in Luke…they have the Bible and the prophets, let them learn from them….God’s invisible attributes make it clear to all.

  • Scripture Warnings that Apply to Television Viewing

    The following Scripture passages have a direct application to this
    issue and are a loud warning to those who have ears to hear.
    Parents need to teach their children these biblical principles
    and guide them in learning how to apply them to their daily lives.
    It is not enough to have a list of do’s and don’ts.

    “I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them
    that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me (Psalm 101:3).

    This verse single-handedly forbids the child of God to watch the vast
    majority of the movies and television programs that are made today.
    Consider just a few of the wicked things that you or your children will see:

    * The breaking of God’s commandments
    * Flaunted immorality
    * Casual drinking and drug usage
    * Drunkenness portrayed as humorous
    * Sexually alluring fashions
    * Sexually enticing dancing
    * Violence and mayhem
    * Casual dating and petting (Parents, do you want your children to
    date after the fashion portrayed in most movies and television programs?)
    * Mockery of the things of God
    * Mockery of God’s people
    * Pagan religions depicted as truth
    * Situational ethics
    * Occultism, paganism, humanism, evolution, and New Age error
    (even in cartoons and in a large number of Disney movies)

    “I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?” (Job 31:1).

    This verse is similar to the one in Psalm 101:3, but it warns more specifically about
    looking upon women to lust after them. The Lord Jesus Christ warned, “But I say unto you,
    That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her
    already in his heart” (Matt. 5:28). These verses are solemn warnings to men and boys
    NOT to watch Hollywood movies, whether in the theater or at home. In public, most men
    will not stare at a woman very long because he is self-conscious about doing that, but
    when he is watching a movie he can ogle an indecently-clad female, even if his wife is
    sitting by his side. Twenty years ago I asked a pastor friend, “Why do you think so many
    pastors are committing adultery?” I have never forgotten his one-word reply: “Television.”

    “But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor
    covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
    Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God
    upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.” (Ephesians 5:3-7).

    This is a perfect description of the vast majority of Hollywood movies today. It also describes the
    sensual rock music that goes hand in hand with practically all of today’s movies. The child of God
    is not to participate in such things, even by proxy.

    • Raymond, Thank You!!! You teach us God’s Word in such an “easy to understand” way. I plan on making a hard copy of all your posting for my nightly readings. Thanks you for posting on this site.

    • @ Raymond. Amen brother. That is a lesson for all of us. Or at least for many of us I’m sure! Thank you!

    • Raymond this is so true. I did grow up w the old tv black and white Lucy and I do not regret it at all. And in my Westerns the good guy always won and God was always mentioned. But that was then and since then everything went to exactly as you say. That too is in the Elite plan for is all the Beakdown of Society. Thank you for this post it is very important. Blessings to you in the Lord

  • Christians are being silenced all across America: in the political debate,
    the public square, the schools, the workplace, and even in the sanctuary
    of their own churches. Read these signs of the times:

    – Christians threatened with prison for protesting the homosexual agenda.

    – Employees of Fortune 500 companies fired for quoting the scriptures or
    forbidden to display family pictures in their office cubicles because they
    offend homosexual employees.

    – Christian churches ordered by the government to perform lesbian marriages.

    – “Antibullying” programs explicitly promote homosexuality in public schools.

    – Municipal workers forbidden by the city to say “family values” because those
    words constitute a hate crime.

    – Proposed federal laws supposedly aimed at preventing employment
    discrimination that would make discrimination against Christians the law of the land.
    – Other “antidiscrimination” laws make Christian charities illegal.

    – Secularist liberals in Congress seek to censor or bankrupt Christian

    – The IRS “cracking down” on Christian pastors who oppose homosexual
    propaganda in schools, abortion on demand, or same-sex marriage.

    – The real impact of same-sex marriage? Any criticism of homosexuality
    would be legally defined as bigotry. Christians who protest could lose
    their jobs, go to jail, or see their churches shut down by the government.

    – The Christian haters are becoming an elite class of super citizens whose
    moral views are actively sponsored by the state while Christians are increasingly
    censored, penalized, and even prosecuted.


    Death is certain but the Bible speaks about untimely death!

    Make a personal reflection about this…….

    Very interesting, read until the end……

    It is Written in the Bible (Galatians 6:7)

    ‘Be not deceived; God is not mocked:
    For whatsoever a man sow, that shall he also reap…
    Here are only some men and women who mocked God:

    John Lennon (Singer)
    Some years before, during his interview with
    An American Magazine, he said:
    Christianity will end, it will disappear.
    I do not have to argue about that…
    I am certain. Jesus was ok, but his subjects
    were too simple, today we are more famous than Him” (1966).
    Lennon, after saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ,
    Was shot six times.

    Tancredo Neves (President of Brazil)
    During The Presidential campaign, he said if he got 500,000 votes
    From his party, not even God would remove him from Presidency.
    Sure he got the votes, but he got sick a day before being made President,
    Then he died.

    Cazuza (Bi-sexual Brazilian
    Composer, singer and poet)
    During a show in Canecio (Rio de Janeiro),
    While smoking his cigarette, he puffed out some
    smoke into the air And said: “God, that’s for you.”
    He died at the age of 32 of LUNG CANCER in a horrible manner.

    The man who built the Titanic.
    After the construction of Titanic, a reporter asked him how safe the
    Titanic would be. With an ironic tone he said: “Not even God can sink it”
    The result: I think you all know what happened to the Titanic.

    Marilyn Monroe (Actress)
    She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation of a show.
    He said the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her.
    After hearing what the Preacher had to say, She said:
    “I don’t need your Jesus”.
    A week later, She was found dead in her apartment.

    Bon Scott (Singer)
    The ex-vocalist of the AC/DC. On one of his 1979 songs he sang:
    “Don’t stop me; I’m going down all the way, down the highway to hell”.
    On the 19th of February 1980, Bon Scott was found dead, he had been
    choked by his own vomit.

    Campinas (IN 2005)
    In Campinas , Brazil , a group of friends, drunk,
    Went to pick up a friend……

    The mother accompanied her to the car and was so worried about the drunkenness
    of her friends and she said to the daughter holding her hand, who was already seated in the car:

    “My Daughter, Go With God And May He Protect You.”
    She responded: “Only If He (God) travels In the trunk, cause inside here….. It’s already full.”
    Hours later, news came by that they had been involved in a fatal accident, everyone had died,
    the car could not be recognized what type of car it had been, but surprisingly, the trunk was intact.
    The police said there was no way the trunk could have remained intact. To their surprise, inside the
    trunk was a crate of eggs, none was broken.

    Christine Hewitt (Jamaican Journalist and entertainer)
    said the Bible (Word of God) was the worst book
    ever written. In June 2006 she was found burnt beyond
    recognition in her motor vehicle.

    Many more important people have forgotten that there is no
    other name that was given so much authority as the name of Jesus.
    Many have died, but only Jesus died and rose again, and he is still alive.

    • STL

      Right On!

      • Amen Raymond and Steven!!

  • The signs of the end times are everywhere. Our upcoming book The Bible According to the Future contains a large chapter on these. The strange thing is that believers often react to the signs the very opposite of how God intends for us to react.

    As we witness such things as the spread of globalism, the building of a one-world church, the increase of wickedness, the breakdown of the traditional family, the destruction of that priceless bastion of liberty called America, the normalization of homosexuality, the callous murder of babies, the filthy pop culture, the breathtaking increase in governmental surveillance, we become fearful, uncertain, frustrated, angry, and discouraged, but this is because our minds and hearts are too focused on things of this world rather than things above. Too often we have the same short view that “conservative” unbelievers have rather than the long view that comes from the light of Bible prophecy.

    Doubtless there will be frustration and discouragement, because we aren’t spiritual robots who are unaffected by our environment, but our response should be tempered by the truths of God’s Word. We should respond to the times in a dramatically different way than our unsaved friends and neighbors.

    When we consider what is happening in the world, we should respond in at least the following ways:

    First, we should rejoice greatly in our salvation.

    “But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy” (1 Pet. 4:13).

    “For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal” (2 Cor. 4:17-18).

    No matter what we suffer in this present world, it is but for a moment in light of eternity with Christ. Every day we should walk in the joy of the gift of blinded eyes opened and salvation bestowed through Christ’s great Sacrifice.

    Second, we should be comforted that Christ’s return is drawing near.

    “And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh” (Lk. 21:28).

    “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are aliveand remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words:” (1 Th. 4:15-18).

    Each day brings us closer to the Rapture of the New Testament saints, and in this light, the signs of the times, though they are grievous for this present life, should be a cause of rejoicing for the believer.

    Third, we should be encouraged that God is in control.

    “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way” (2 Th. 2:7).

    I love this verse at many levels. It explains why we cannot know the time of the Rapture, no matter how dark the situation gets and no matter how many “signs” are evident. I have often heard people say, “The Lord MUST come soon. It just CAN’T be much longer.” The fact is that we cannot know. We can’t know the hour, the day, or even the year or the decade. This is because the Spirit of God WILL let or restrain until He is taken out of the way. He came into the world in a special sense at Pentecost to empower the churches for world evangelism to call out a people for Christ’s name from among all nations, and He will continue to restrain the devil’s program until He is finished and not a moment before.

    The devil is the god of this world, and his handiwork is everywhere evident, but he is not God and he is not in control of the times and the seasons.

    “Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding” (Dan. 2:20-21).

    At one level, it is frustrating to see the mystery of iniquity on a fast track in these days, but at the same time we must not despair in any sense. To despair is the position of unbelief.

    Fourth, we should stand in the confidence that the present evil is exceedingly temporary and will soon be cut down.

    “Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass. Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil. For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace” (Psa. 37:7-11).

    Instead of fretting, God wants us to rest in Him and in His promises. When we do this we can be a powerful witness to the unbeliever who has no such source of comfort.

    Fifth, we must do more praying.

    “I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time” (1 Tim. 2:1-6).

    Desperate times call for more praying, but we are witnessing a dearth of prayer in the typical Bible-believing church. There is lots of partying and lots of activities and fun but not a lot of praying.

    No wonder there is no spiritual power to change things. No wonder we have to adopt carnal methods and pursue pragmatism and mess around with “church growth” techniques.

    1 Timothy 2 ties prayer together with living a quiet and peaceable life and the liberty to preach the gospel, the very things that we want.

    We need to get back to having a real “gather in little groups, get down on your knees” mid-week prayer meeting that consists of a serious time of earnest and effectual prayer rather than merely adding a five minute prayer to a regular service.

    We need to get back to having prayer meetings before Sunday services.

    We need to get back to having all-night prayer meetings.

    We need to get back to having a series of “cottage prayer meetings” before special meetings and conferences.

    We need to get back to having a private prayer closet for daily intercessory prayer.

    We need to get back to having a family altar time of prayer.

    We need to get back to having prayer partners with whom we regularly meet for prayer. It is a powerful and effectual thing to agree together in prayer before the Lord for particular requests.

    I am convinced that the reason why it is so difficult to get the Lord’s people to attend real prayer meetings is that so few of them have an effectual intercessory prayer life.

    Sixth, we must understand the times.

    “And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now isour salvation nearer than when we believed” (Rom. 13:11).

    We need to know the time, and we can only do that by a literal interpretation of Bible prophecy.

    A literal interpretation teaches us that we cannot return to the 18th century when America was created or even the 19th or the 20th. That was a different time. The 21st century America cannot be re-created as something that existed in the past. It is obvious that the prophetic hour is very late and the Rapture is near. Israel is back in the land. The spirit of ancient Sodom is spreading across the face of the earth. Globalism rules in commerce and culture and politics in preparation for the rise of the man of sin. The nations are aligned against God and His anointed in fulfillment of Psalm 2. The apostasy of 2 Timothy 3-4 has spread with breathtaking speed. Even a large percentage of “evangelicals” today worship a false christ (as we have documented in The Collapse of Separatism, which is available in print and as a free eBook from Way of Life Literature).

    What every IFB church needs to do is stop listening to unscriptural voices and pursuing pipe dreams, and focus rather on doing exactly what God has told us to do. Our job is not to build Christian nations; our job is to build godly, Bible-believing churches. We need to occupy ourselves with building a strong foundation in the knowledge of God’s Word, building godly, separated individuals and families, marking and avoiding the budding apostasy even in our own “circles,” and fulfilling the Lord’s Great Commission, and that commission is not about saving America or transforming the culture.

    This will do far more to help America or Canada or wherever than pursuing the misguided and heretical “cultural activism.”

    The root problem with America’s moral and social ills is the apostasy and compromise in the churches. This is the teaching of 2 Chronicles 7:14, which also states that the moral and social problems can be healed only by the repentance of God’s people.

    “If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.”

    We have witnessed 40 years of intense cultural and political activism on the part of sincere but misguided people led by the likes of Jerry Falwell and D. James Kennedy. The result has been the exact opposite of the goal. The goal was to bring America back to God, but the result has been a precipitous deterioration of the nation’s moral condition. This is for the simple reason that this activism does not address the root problem and, in fact, it is part of the problem by producing further spiritual compromise in the churches through the heresy of ecumenism and illicit associations.

    It has been said that a definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

    Finally, we should be busy in the harvest fields.

    “But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance” (2 Pet. 3:8-9).

    The Bible plainly says that Christ is waiting because He wants to save souls.

    He isn’t in a hurry. He isn’t shortsighted like we are, because He dwells in eternity. If a thousand years is as a day, then 41 years would be a mere hour. Actually, I am praying that God would give our mission field of South Asia another 41 years at least to hear the gospel, to have an opportunity to be saved (but at the same time there are so few doctrinally sound workers that it seems almost in vain).

    Instead of fretting at the signs of the times, we need to rededicate ourselves to proclaiming the gospel to every person in every nation and building sound Bible-believing churches where God’s people can be protected, edified, trained, discipled, and where godly Christian homes can be built and children can be prepared as arrows in the hand of the Lord to go out and do battle against the forces of evil.

    It is my personal dedication to this task that keeps me from despairing and being angry and frustrated and discouraged at the signs of the times, such as the destruction of America, though I know as much about these things as most people and though I study them in order to publish O Timothy magazine and Friday Church News Notes.

    At age 52 we returned to the “mission field” in one of the darkest parts of the world, where we had already spent more than 10 years preaching the gospel and planting churches, and at 63 we are more committed to and excited about missionary work than ever.

    It is strange that at the very time when God’s people should be doubling down to fulfill the Great Commission, in a time when even in the midst of great turmoil we still have great freedom and many resources, the number of missionaries is decreasing, and the few who do go to the most spiritually needy parts of the world don’t have the commitment to stay by the stuff anymore, but instead seem to find any excuse to rush back to the land of comfort and plenty, the land where spiritual light is still shining brighter than any other part of the world, the land where full-time Christian workers abound, while so much of the rest of the world sits in unremitting darkness.

    At the very time when we should be living like the pilgrims God’s Word says we are and focusing on God’s business rather than our own, so many are putting down the same roots as their unbelieving neighbors, trying to lay up a large nest egg, fretting about the stock market, wanting to build a bigger home or buy a fancier car, not being generous in missions giving, not spending even an hour a week in gospel work, not maintaining a daily intercessory prayer closet, not being faithful and fruitful members of Bible-believing churches, not encouraging their children to surrender to Christ’s Great Commission.

    You say, “Our foolish leaders are bankrupting our nation and what will we do?”

    The best thing to do is to believe the Psalmist when he says,

    “I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread” (Psa. 37:25).

    Friends, let’s wake up while we still have the opportunity! It is a joy to sell out to the Lord, and we should never be afraid of His perfect will, but there is going to be a lot of regret one of these days when we look back on hours, days, weeks, months, and years wasted on vanity while God’s work was left undone.

    “Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest” (Lk. 10:2).

    • AMEN RAYMOND! You really ARE a soldier arnt you! God bless you brother.

    • Dear Sir

      HYH to the Rescue from this War Zone by Personal Choice, given in a Paper Airplane
      Words from the Wings without Writing

    • Thank you Raymond. I concur 100 percent. Would you pray for the salvation of my daughter and her little son? Dania and Aleric. She will not listen to me.

    • Raymond,
      How can I get in touch with you to do God’s work?

    • Raymond is this written by some pastor? Then who? If you wrote it, will you come to my city and be my Pastor??? 🙂 We sure could use a man of God in our town!!! 🙂

      • Hi Suez:

        The signs of the end times are everywhere. Our upcoming book The Bible According to the Future is written by David Cloud. His website wayoflife.org is a good site in my opinion.

        It would seem I need to clear something up.
        I’m 59 and have been heavily involved for years in researching certain subjects. I have a large library on various matters that interest me, Bible Prophecy being my favorite.
        When I put together an article and I post it, I usually do not
        put “authored by Raymond” on the article. To me it’s just
        not important who wrote it, it’s the message that counts not
        the messenger. Likewise, when I cut and paste someone else’s
        information I usually do not list who wrote it, again, it’s the
        message not the messenger that matters.

        Over the years a number of websites have approached me
        to be one of their staff writers but I turned them down.
        Don’t have the time. I post on many sites and many know me,
        i’ve made some good friends.

        To some people it’s very important their name be on what
        they write, to me it’s not. My name is written in the lambs
        Book of Life and that’s what is important to me.

        This nation (and world) is going down the tubes and I want
        to make a difference where i can, that’s what’s important to
        me. I hope this helps to clear things up.

        Respectfully, Raymond

  • Gerry

    I wouldn’t be surprised if some disaster happens there during their event

  • G-d is a great G-d. He does not like challenges from the Pagan Community. He will punish and give a warning. I sincerely believe this is why California has these fires and probably more to come. these fire also are for other Sin committed as in Abortion and homosexual lifestyles. Repent and sin no more.

  • craig

    Excellent report I would add just one scripture

    2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
    And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that parish; because they received not the love of the truth,that they might be saved.
    And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness

    Everthing is contained in those few verses, but only the unwilling won’t see the love of God through Jesus Christ just the damnation

  • Soon the whole world will follow suit. The God of the antichrist is the devil.

    Dan_8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

    Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the god of forces:

  • That be a burning man alright.


  • All these people do what they do because of lies. It’s alarming to see how many people – even in my circles – are blinded by lies.

    What makes me think I’ve got the truth and they don’t? Not pride or self righteousness. The word of God! The choice to believe in His word uncompromisingly and turn my back on self. To display the fruits of the spirit.

  • Raymond I beg to differ with you about one point you brought up about who is taken out of the way. A Hebrew scholar that was born again and believes in the Lord Jesus Christ as savior and Lord was interviewed on Christian TV and said that the word from the Hebrew is not what the translation really says in the bible. He says it really says stands up not taken out of the way. He says it is Michael the arch Angel that protects Israel who stands up or is taken away from protecting Israel not the Holy Spirit who the 144,000 Jewish believers are sealed with during the tribulation.

    For those who see the scriptures showing us that we will be here for the Anti-Christ and his persecution against Christians this makes more sense. Also, many translations like he showed with this one have been miss translated.

    The bible verse that shows this truth is: Daniel 12:1
    And at that time(last days) shall Michael STAND UP ( be taken away), the great prince which STANDS UP (defends) FOR the children of thy people(Israel); and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time; and at that time thy people(1/3) Israel) shall be delivered, everyone that shall be written in the book. (book of life)144,000.

    Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but lo, MICHAEL, ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES, CAME TO HELP ME; and I remained there with the KINGS OF PERSIA.

    (20) Then said he, Know you therefore I come to you? and now will I return to fight with the PRINCE OF PERSIA: and when I am gone forth, THE PRINCE OF GRECIA SHALL COME.

    (21) But I will show you that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holds with me in these things, but MICHAEL YOUR PRINCE.

    This is why they were told “You know who restrains the anti- Christ from coming. It is the chief prince archangel as shown in the above scriptures who is MICHAEL NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT.

    This is another example of how the scriptures have been twisted and mistranslated to try to prove a certain doctrine that has been refuted even by Paul. Thanks though brother for all the other great in sites you have shared with us that seem right on! Blessings to all who love the truth and our precious Lord Jesus Christ.

    • Christian TV???
      That’s your first mistake.
      I don’t have time to list all your errors.

      You will learn more if you do your own studying…

  • Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
    Feels like tribulation
    Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
    Looks like tribulation
    Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
    Sounds like tribulation
    Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
    Must be tribulation
    Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
    So if we endure tribulation, we will be saved.

    Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
    Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

    Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
    16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

    Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

    Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

    Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
    This is the rapture after trib.

    Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
    This is the wrath after rapture.

    Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    This is the reigning of the Martyrs on the earth when Jesus returns at the end of God’s wrath.

  • When you prepare people to be pulled out all while expecting and fervently awaiting pre tribulation rapture. Your not preparing yourself or others. That is not Gods intention at all.

    The pre tribulation rapture doctrine opens people up to become complacent. THESE FACTS CAN NOT BE DENIED!! If people do not get pulled out they will become offended and many will fall from faith and hate one another. Many will doubt their beliefs because if that wasn’t true then what else is not true. Many will say how can God let this happen?

    You will have caused this doubt for believers at the most critical juncture in the history of the world.

    The post tribulation rapture does not do this at all.

    If people do not get pulled out they will become offended and many will fall from faith and hate one another. Many will doubt their beliefs because if that wasn’t true then what else is not true. Many will say how can God let this happen?

    Interesting cause this is very much what the bible says will happen. Now I will show you the bible verses that say this.

    All throughout the bible persecution or tribulation is mentioned. In fact tribulation is defined by Jesus himself the first time it is mentioned in the new testament. Jesus definition of TRIBULATION:

    Matthew 13:21
    King James Version (KJV)

    21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

    So we see here that Jesus himself defined tribulation as persecution. He basically said when you receive persecution or tribulation because of him and the word (you must be strong in Jesus and his word). That many will be offended. Jesus constantly reiterates the message that you should NOT be offended when persecution or tribulation arises because he has told you of this ahead of time.

    But he tells us that MANY WILL BE OFFENDED (who could possibly be offended that we know of? Could it be people that did not expect tribulation?).

    This above verse does not say they are going through tribulation because they are bad people. Nope they are going through Tribulation (persecution) because they are standing on the word of God. If we are rooted and grounded in what we believe, when persecution or tribulation comes we are going to endure.

    Matthew 24:13
    King James Version (KJV)

    13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    John 16:33
    King James Version (KJV)

    33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.


    John 16:1
    King James Version (KJV)

    16 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should NOT be offended.

    Again Jesus warning to people that they are going to go through tribulation and he warned them to NOT BE OFFENDED. Lets see what else Jesus said to all (not just Jews but all see verse Mark 13:37 for this). Continuing on lets see what else Jesus said to all. (Mark 13 is the parallel chapter and verses to Matthew 24 read them, the say exact same things. The last thing Jesus said he said to all, watch, Mark wrote that down.) Continuing on lets see what else Jesus said to ALL.

    Matthew 24
    King James Version (KJV)

    8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
    9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
    10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.


    When these people become offended and they will (so says Gods word and it just doesn’t say a few will be offended but MANY will become offended) betray us and one another and hate others.


    Mark 13:37
    King James Version (KJV)

    37 And what I say unto you I say unto ALL, Watch.


    Cause side by side that are talking about exactly the same events. So we ALL are to be watching for these events to happen.

    Matthew 24:29-31
    King James Version (KJV),
    29 Immediately after the tribulation
    of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Mark 13:24-27
    King James Version (KJV)

    24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
    25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
    26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
    27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

    All the apostles and Jesus with Gods word were talking about same events to ALL PEOPLE not just Jews see mark 13:37 for proof its talking to all.

    May God Bless Grant You Wisdom & Understanding Always.

    Back to preparing people. May God Be With You.

    • Great scriptures. Some scriptures I find really interesting are: KJV “Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
      Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
      Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
      Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
      Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
      Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
      Hmm, this says the tares are gathered first! I just found that to be interesting. I am not a scholar, but these verses were interesting to me and caught my eye. 🙂

  • Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
    Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
    Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
    These verses are not the rapture, these verses are the raptured saints at the end of tribulation. now let me verify this, by saying the rapture occurred just prior to this seen back in Revelation 6:12 the Jews are sealed after the rapture of the church, That is when they accept Jesus at the very end. Proof?

    Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.
    Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

    Here we see the 144k have accepted Jesus, as Lord and Savior in verse 14:1. In verse14:2 we see the raptured saints in heaven singing a song with harps. Babylon falling in verse 14:8 shows completion of the tribulation. The rest of the chapture expounds on tribulation, rapture, and wrath in chronological order.

    Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
    Rev 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

    So in verse 15 we see the same account. I often wondered if the song they sang here, was the same song as the ones the 144k learned upon the earth. With them being Jews, the song of Moses and the song of the Lamb, would be a possibility.

    • Typo: So in verse 15= So in chapter 15
      Sorry folks

      • This is also just more great proof that the trumpet and vials of wrath are the same. All accounts of events line up to perfection in both places. I plan on doing a study of these soon. With the help of the Lord, I hope to make undeniable evidence they must be the same. I will show tribulation, rapture, sorry pretribbers, and wrath of God, in sequence in both accounts. I hope you look forward to it as much as I do.

      • Roger I will get someone on it. Typo Page 495 section 3, sub section 2.019 fiver . ON IT !! Over and out!!

  • Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24)
    Here lies the unfathomable hope that all Christians share alike: By the blood of Jesus Christ, we pass out of death and despair and into eternal life full of joy.
    This has been brought to you by the following ministries

  • Came across some other interesting things on Isaiah 17 destruction of Damascus Ron.

    (Isaiah 17:6 KJV) Yet gleaning grapes shall be left in it, as the shaking of an olive tree, two or three berries in the top of the uppermost bough, four or five in the outmost fruitful branches thereof, saith the LORD God of Israel.

    The timing of the destruction of Damascus is easy to figure out and its not now. The above verse is taken from Isaiah 17 Destruction of Damascus. I found the phrase that Isaiah uses elsewhere and its “the shaking of an olive tree.”

    Which points us to Isaiah 24 which is about the Day of the Lord.

    (Isaiah 24:13 KJV) When thus it shall be in the midst of the land among the people, there shall be as the shaking of an olive tree, and as the gleaning grapes when the vintage is done.

    Isaiah 24 is about the Day of the Lord.

    (Isaiah 24:1 KJV) Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

    This is when the Lord comes and straighten things out. This above verse is basically same as a verse later in same chapter Isaiah 24:20 where earth reels to and fro like a drunkard.

    (Isaiah 24:20 KJV) The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

    (Isaiah 24:6 KJV) Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

    (2 Thessalonians 1:8 KJV) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

    (Isaiah 24:14 KJV) They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing for the majesty of the LORD, they shall cry aloud from the sea.

    This sounds like the saints singing from the sea of glass to me.

    (Revelation 15:2 KJV) And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

    (Revelation 15:3 KJV) And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

    (Isaiah 24:15 KJV) Wherefore glorify ye the LORD in the fires, even the name of the LORD God of Israel in the isles of the sea.

    Again us signing and Glorifying the Lord. He takes vengence in flaming fire on them that know not God.

    (Isaiah 24:21 KJV) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

    Again he punishes the kings at the end.

    Yep Damascus is destroyed at the end!!

    And again of course man doesn’t look to his maker till the end.

    (Isaiah 17:7 KJV) At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel.

    (Isaiah 17:8 KJV) And he shall not look to the altars, the work of his hands, neither shall respect that which his fingers have made, either the groves, or the images.

    It not only says man looks to his maker but it also says he no longer worship / respect ungodly creations

    (Isaiah 17:5 KJV) And it shall be as when the harvestman gathereth the corn, and reapeth the ears with his arm; and it shall be as he that gathereth ears in the valley of Rephaim.

    (Isaiah 17:6 KJV) Yet gleaning grapes shall be left in it, as the shaking of an olive tree, two or three berries in the top of the uppermost bough, four or five in the outmost fruitful branches thereof, saith the LORD God of Israel.

    Its when Israel has been reduced to a small remnant after surviving desolation.

    Again the main verses telling you that the destruction of Damascus happens at the end is its referece to Isaiah 24 by shaking of Olive Tree and Isaiah 17:7-8

    (Isaiah 17:7 KJV) At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel.

    (Isaiah 17:8 KJV) And he shall not look to the altars, the work of his hands, neither shall respect that which his fingers have made, either the groves, or the images.

    Where man looks to his maker the Holy One Of Israel and they no longer worship or have respect for man made things. THIS IS AT THE END.

    • Again Isaiah uses key phrases, well the all do (all the prophets) and thats how they link to one another and other things they are talking about.

      But Isaiah is one of the more difficult prophets at least for me to figure out. Really gotta read his stuff closely and study it for a while.

      • This shaking of the olive tree, is the 144k being refined in the fire of God’s wrath. And the grapes being the precious fruit. 2/3 destroyed and 1/3 saved for the kingdom age the 144000.

        • and you guys think I am a bit off! lol This is stupid, never heard of it till now. Like talking to a rock, why would the End even put it out there, to see their hatred? I and a friend just went thru something like this on a Carribean Site. Such hatred from Christians who some have read the Bible and can quote Scripture, boy the devil has been SO busy! Thanks for your posts guys.

          • So, since this is under my post , are you referring to D city and I? Teresa. What are you trying to say Teresa? That we don’t know what we are talking about? And where is this hatred coming out of us, I’d really like to see what I’d done to provoke this anger in you?

          • no no no hatred from the new people on the Cult thing, sorry Ron forgive me but do not pay att to where I show up!

          • No problem Sister, forgive me for the misunderstanding. God Bless, you.

        • Yes agreed.

    • Hey that’s great, D City! Great job, Brother. TY for that new lesson, it is good to learn new things. So now we have proof confirmed Damascus is destroyed in the end.

      • Ron & D City, yes, it’s good to learn new things and you two are the BEST TEACHERS I know. Although, it’s a lot to take in, I pray to God for understanding His Word and to help me not to dismiss a teaching because I never heard it taught that way before but to check to see if these things be true! Thanks you both for letting the Bible interpreted itself. “Line upon line, here a little there a little.”

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  • Burnindlite

    Hahahagahaha! Omfg really?!?! You guys are about as clueless as a brick in the middle of the street. You have no clue. Have you ever gone to burning man? No I think not. You probably haven’t even talked to a burner. Thank you for giving me something to laugh at this morning. Your ignorance in general is highly amusing.

    • That brick in the street is wiser than you, Blasphemer. Take your profanity else were.

    • Burnindlite: I don’t have to stick my hand in the fire to know it hot!!!

      • LOL, I love it.

        • Zec_3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

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  • veronica

    You obviously have not done ur homework….the man is not an idol people worship..it is a week of meeting other people and cultures…the burning of the man is not in anyway spiritual but more of a wrap up event for the people who have spent a week learning of others in celebration. As a christian I am proud to be a burner.

    Next time u decide to slam an event…do ur homework…anywhere u read about ‘the man’ & its history it will tell u he has no reason or meaning…its just a man

    • The symbols and pic clearly define their purpose. You can close your eyes if you desire and go, but God sees you and all that goes on.

    • Hi Veronica, with all due respect, how do you say as a Christian, you go to a atmosphere of this type? I did not study it, but exactly what do you do there? Do you read Scripture, Bible Study, Prayer, Fellowship in what way? I have never heard of such a thing, so am asking exactly who/what it is, how it enables your growth in the Lord, etc. You have a Blessed day!

  • The dark

    Yes we will consume all as you writhe before the dark one. For you are the true brainwashed an sinners of your own books of falsehood.

    • satan fears us. Trembles in his misery. he knows his day is short and his work is cut out for him. he’s way to busy for people like you. God has time for you though. Perhaps you should consider the winning side.

  • Dan

    As a long time burner (haven’t missed a year since 2000), I highly encourage you all to come and check it out. You’ll see how much more fun our God is than yours!

    All hail the man

    “For I shall lead them to the desert, and show them truth. Their eyes shall be opened, and they shall follow false gods no more” – The book of Larry, chapter 3 vs 1

    • You got to be kidding me, the book of larry!, where did that come from ? the book of the dead, WHAT A CROCK
      The name fits, if this is your choice ,you will burn.

      • Yes I believe I’ve heard of that book of Liary. Some truth to it they say.

        • Ron is that Larry the Cable Guy?

    • @Dan,So, Does that book of Larry, like have the chapters of Moe and Curly also??? Just wondering!! 🙂

    • @ Dan,
      Mat_24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
      You people looking for some one special, I know of a very special someone if your interested? They call Him Lord Jesus.

  • I am so sick of all the tit for tat, I can one up you, you are going to hell in a handbasket cuz I am right and you are wrong. I have been around Christians ALL my life and NEVER have I experienced or seen the ungliness tha happens on here. You all act like children when you do that. WHY CANT YOU JUST RE WRITE over and over the same Scripture instead of personal comments back!!!

    • I suppose that goes for me, too, Sister. I don’t like blasphemers, but maybe you don’t understand what the abbreviation means on that comment above, but I do. If you or anyone in this world speaks against my God, I will try to defend Him. I don’t care to change my ways for anyone. Have a blessed day.

      • Oh no Ron I get that, its just you all have that tit for tat and It just doesn’t serve a purpose other than what I said. Its prideful in a way if you know what I am trying to say. for me I just would rather see you cont to put the same Scripture and meaning w/o that part, not speaking to only you , you know that right??? You have a great wknd, hot here in Co, town busy w 3 days of Family fun, we stay home now that we are old! 🙂 Some of it is a 1/2 blk away! We can here the music when it starts. Take care

        • ps I did not mean the folks who clearly are not true w the Lord such as these new Frum Followers

        • As I said before, I stand for my God. It may have not served a purpose for what you think is right, but who made you judge and jury? And are we not allowed to voice our opinions about scripture. Yet do you not voice yours, also. Need I say what that is called. Are you angry
          because I belittle satan? What is your argument, Teresa? Clarify your cause.

          • Ron, I said what I meant an am not the first to do so. If none can see it then I should have had a clue. I apologize having offended today, was not my intention, just saying my thoughts. Its like watching people duke it out w no winner. It is never about the Scripture you/them post, only the added little tit/tat. You guys take care.

          • Pride you say, Teresa.

            Jer 9:23 Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
            Jer 9:24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.
            Jesus said love your enemies, He didn’t say love evil.

            Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
            So you want to condemn me for hating evil. Then will you condemn Jesus also. O but isn’t that exactly what you did?
            Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

          • don’t be silly Ron. I am not condemning you for anything. I am calling those out who end their Scrpiture w tit for tat like I said. That is wrong and I don’t care how you want to justify it, You or any of the others. Its just wrong. Posting Scripture to correct someone w your interpretation is awesome. As I said just not the I HAVE TO HAVE THE LAST WORD and I am right. That’s all, to me that is the prideful part, in thinking I am right you are wrong. If I say that I am not prideful? Doesn’t that mean I think I am better knowldged than you? Like I said, I apologize if I offended, I am just making my pt is all.

          • Stating you opinion is good, but those were directed at me and I am not trying to prove anyone wrong, just proving God right! That’s all. You would also call Paul prideful, Sister and you would also call Jesus very prideful, and Stephen and Peter, well maybe Peter was a little. This pride calling is nothing but envy speaking out, it’s as bad as pride if not worse. So we already know what that is called. Pic the moat first, Sister.

          • Amen Ron, Amen Brother.

          • Ron/DC reflecting think I said 3-4 people, I do not like to name names unless I am speaking w them or something they{anyone} said concerning me.

          • I have no idea what you just said.

          • DC no biggy cant go back to refresh mind was from long time ago today, had a rough day, my mouth is always open to my feet and when feet are sideways it wears me out! 🙂

          • Article: Burning Man Draws 68,00 to America’s Largest
            Pagan Cult Gathering.

            Date: September 01, 2013

            Comment (#384) made by Joseph:

            Siging off, you will never see another post from me!


            Joseph lied because he is still posting on this site.
            Can liars be trusted? Nope…



  • The dark

    With all this hate you spew you call you selfs Christian? You are no better than how you proclaim us to be

    • Rather than ask ea one of you Cult for lack of knowledge better word folks, Who are you and where did you come from. Posting Scripture against your accusations is not wrong or hateful. How do you get that? Obviously you do not use the Bible as we know or you wouldn’t comment like that.

  • Amen Teresa!

    • Hi! Valerie. Hope your doing good. God bless you, Sister.

  • Jason Wasson

    Sadly this article is full of lies, decent, and outright slander. Burning man does not represent anything presented to you in this article. Christianity itself should feel ashamed for such false judgement of others. Please do not take this article as truth or what I say as truth. Please do your own research and reading from multiple sources to draw your own rational opinion.

  • Hi Again, may I ask why you would come on here to say those things? I do not remember seeing you here, but al always curious as to why people do this. I love you the only way I know how and that would be in Christ as He commands me to do. I don’t know you but I have to do that. So far none of the folks who belong have presented the meaning of your group, to what God you worship and His Doctrine, Bible? Those are things I want to read, not your angry rebuttle or how we are passing false judgement. Are you saying all info is inaccurate? Present me 24 hrs of what is done that so I can understand you. Thanks, Blessings in the Lord

    • Hi Teresa. I wish I would have seen your post earlier.

      Ill do my best to answer your questions.

      For me, 24 hours at burning man, is a practice in trust, sharing, good will, and love.

      That is a hugely subjective answer. Yes, a lot of people go strictly for the party, but in my opinion, they are missing out of the best part of the event.

      You hear the saying there “the Playa provides”. (Playa is the spanish word for beach). No, we arent worshiping the alkaline lake bed by saying this, but we are understanding there is a higher order to things, and to trust in it. That addage is very true out in the desert.. you may not know what you need that day, but it does tend to find you in a almost divine way. Little miracles like that are common on the playa.

      For me.. I would typically wake up at dawn, and watch the sun rise, take my bike out into the deep desert and observe the various art installations. I would head back into ‘civilization’ and my breakfast would find me. (People gift readily, and its not uncommon to be invited in by stranger to share a meal.)

      Many days, I was performing wedding ceremony as an ordained minister of the state of Nevada. That frequently took up my afternoons, followed by more wandering, and talking with people about everything from politics to art to God.

      I would frequently visit the ‘temple’ which has been a long standing tradition. Temple is not really devoted on a single religious idea, but more to the act of letting they physical go. Its a beautiful place, but one of great emotional significance, as many people leave photos loved ones lost that year. Its profound, a testament to our fleeting experience. Words dont suffice.

      I also attended TEDtalks, where issues of religious freedom were discussed, as well as other topics such as positive community interaction, awareness, etc. Example, one man started a trend in a chinese national park, simply by picking up litter. (Burners are all aware of the ‘leave no trace’ mentality, part of the privilege of being able to use the land is the responsibility to literally leave the desert like we found it.. a real trick for a event with 70k attendees, but everyone does it. Being a good caretaker of the earth and all… )

      “To what god do you worship?” At burning man? It is not at all a religious event, but you can find religious elements from all over the world. You can find conversations about God, Allah, Buddah etc.. and to me, I find it interesting how similar the core messages really are.. its only man’s interpretations and need to be right that we tend to fight over.

      Ever hear of the tale of 3 blind men trying to describe a Elephant to one another? Personally, I think trying to understand God is a bit like that.

      But for a more succinct answer.. burning man is not a religious event.

      I have been to burning man 3 years now. I find.. my experience there is a direct reflection on myself, and I think that holds true for many. When I attend with my mindset, being “what can I give?” I find I am rich in experience that give back to me.

      Conversely, if you see this event as something to be feared, to be hated, I would wonder what you brought to it yourself. What is in your heart?

      24 hours at burning man, like so many experiences in life, is a lot like staring in a mirror. That wont be comfortable or pleasant for many.

      A sign of hell on Earth? Probably not. If anything, its the closest thing to heaven I have found (and this is coming for a formerly VERY indoctrinated christian, on the healing circuit as a kid, etc).

      Hope that helps. I am glad you took the time to actually ask.

      One thing I wanted to ask you: You cite you are commanded to love people you dont know.. as if you are almost loath to do so. Do you really feel that way to people who dont agree with your doctrine? Is it a real love, if you are loath to do it or is it a falsehood?

  • Again

    The universe is my god and my book is life. We come together and burn so people from all walks of life can come together and separate just for a weekend from the blind masses. Most of the world including everyone posting here will believe anything they read. Your books of lies your brainwashing television.

    • Hi so you are New Ager? May I ask you how you got to think TV or Bible is brainwashing? Well forget TV it is now in present time. But Books of lies? I don’t have TV.

  • Darien


    Cargo cults are small tribal religions in the south Pacific that date back to WW2. John Frum was the name of a supposed pilot who performed an emergency landing on one of these islands with a cargo plane, and convinced the natives that he was a god.

    Burning man is an art festival that has a theme every year. This year was cargo cults, so people were supposed to decorate their camps like cargo cults.

    Burners are not a Pacific tribe, they do not revere John Frum. Theyre a group of hippies, artists, and general nuts who like to have a good time.

    Also, better make sure that you never wear clothing cut from two different fibers. I hear the punishment is pretty steep.

    • Hi Darien, thank you for explaining some, no one else has I asked. So are you Christians? New Agers? Mixed Bag? Rainbows? Do you all have a Web site? The article tells me nothing really and I googled but did not see much, so I still don’t know what all the Hullabaloo is. And I still don’t know why you all appeared on this definitely Christian site to post some not so nice stuff? not you. still looking for more answers, thank you and have a Blessed day

  • Theresa,
    Haven’t you gotten it yet Theresa? Ron and DC do not care what anyone else thinks but themselves and viciously attack those who do not buy into their false doctrine. They do not come here with the Holy Spirit or in the spirit of God. They are here to condemn others who question them and then cry, “Why do you attack us so? They are playing an artful game and they know it. They come not from, Let us reason together, but from if you disagree with me I will get you. It is malicious. They then pretend to be victims while they themselves are railing with rage at others.

    • Hi Marie good to see you. Yes a little slow on the uptake. I do get it, yet I don’t. If I ask how does this give God Glory, am told IT NEEDS TO BE TOLD. Yes, and ask I said maybe w/o the last sentences always there? About 3-4 diff individuals do it and I guess I will NEVER get that part of it. I say again, been round Christians whole life and never met w anything like on here. As I type I look at the Dell sign on computer, w the side laying E,
      That’s how I feel most of the time like the sideways E !! 🙂
      You have a great day w the Lord!

    • You have a right to your opinion, Marie.

    • Article: Burning Man Draws 68,00 to America’s Largest
      Pagan Cult Gathering.

      Date: September 01, 2013

      Comment (#384) made by Joseph:

      Siging off, you will never see another post from me!


      Joseph lied because he is still posting on this site.
      Can liars be trusted? Nope…


  • Again

    Because every religion is beleive this or you burn and if u do beleive then to can twist every word in the book for your own use.

    • one more thing, assuming you do believe you were created from something or a higher power? What do you believe on that? Did you ever study Biology, or animals/birds, every EVERY part of the body has to work together for life. Look up a woodpecker and see why their tongue is the way it is. Even Insects. Funny how people believe in higher power of creation or big bang, really? They can do a God maybe as Creator, but NO Jesus, what they miss is they are the same, Cant have one w/o the other

  • Again

    Bohemian Grove in California has a similar Celtic/ Owl/ Baal ceremony they do…Burning a child effigy..EX presidents including Bush/ Nixon and many other have attended..Many Republicans politicians attend the all men event….male call boy’s ( young men ) are hired for the enjoyment of the men there ( sexually )…it’s a private club.in the woods..heavily guarded…the ceremony is done in the fall during harvest…I’ve seen the footage..it shows what hypocrites they are…the link is definitely a Christian one however they do not mention the Groove only the pagan one called burning man …which is popular..it’s all real…the pagan ceremony is ancient…the Celtic version included blood letting …to the real Christians anything that draws on powers that is not derived from Christ is occult ( meaning simply hidden )..and a danger to the entire world…But the rich/power brokers have no problem saying they are Christian but in the dark do all kinds of very non Christian things. The burning Man ceremony is simply a harvest celebration but does have a implication of trying to insure a good year..and of course for many just a time of fellowship and a chance to party…

    • I do know the Grove, Free Masons, Illuminatti, NWO, all of it and what they do. What does that have to do w your group or Christians other than we are STILL Sinners tho we have repented. That does not stop I repented as I needed Jesus. I am still a Sinner. The argument from your side is remember the Crusades and what Christians did? Or as you said, Bush among others do these things. Still Sinners. So basically I can go for a week throw out my Bible, and go back to my ole life, which was less work and more fun at times? I don’t think so, unlike what yo see, I see the Light Jesus presents. He lifted me out of the Miry Clay, He knows every hair on my head and gives me Promise not to worry about future it is w Him. I will pass on this Party this time. Blessings to you Again, and I hope and pray one day you will see and experience the light we see. 🙂

      • Theresa,
        You are an evangelist indeed! Great job!

      • @Teresa B., Amen and very clear.

    • @ Again, Hi there, I seen a video or pictures, and a write up, on just what you are talking about. About some of the Presidents and higher ups being there..Very sad indeed.
      🙂 Some of those in our government, and Hollywood, truly are a bunch of sicko’s!! Thanks for your impute

  • Hi Theresa,
    Here is the ultimate explanation for you. Jesus says that anyone who does not believe in him is an “little anti-Christ”. There are thousands of religions but only one Christianity. It is not about religion but about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. People either have one or they don’t. It does not matter what they call their r3eligion or cult or what they believe in, if they do not believe in Jesus Christ as God and Savior and accept His free gift of Salavation, they are doomed to Hell.
    Do you really want to delve into the devil’s works? You have the ONLY TRUTH in the gospel of Jesus Christ, you need nothing else.
    Don’t be too curious about satan and his works. Best to tell them about Jesus instead of inquiring about their devilish beliefs. They need to hear the gospel first and foremost. If they mock the gospel of Jesus Christ, we know their end. Don’t make friends with the devil!

  • However, maybe it is someone like you that they would listen to. Dear Theresa, what do believe the true gospel is?

    • Hi again, exactly as you said. You are right, I am just an enquiring mind and if I see something I want to know all about it and why it works or does not. Always been that way should have been an investigator! You are so right tho, and OK mom! Blessings to you Marie

  • Darien

    Well, a lot of us showed up because this gathering that many of us save up for all year to go to was just covered on your site. Burners and Burning Man in general get referred to as the devil’s work or satanic or pagan very, very frequently, and we tend to have a pretty severe reaction to this. The festival in and of itself is actually secular. It has no religious endorsement. The individuals who participate in it often do, however. Many of them have a pretty severe aversion to anything even resembling fundamentalist Christianity for various reasons. So there’s a couple of reasons for the sudden influx. They felt insulted that the writer of this article got everything very, very wrong.

    Now, as far as what they are? Lots of: atheists, new agers, christians of all stripes, muslims, hindi, wiccans, jews, smaller individual religions (personal spirituality), and I even know a Zoroastrian who goes. Which makes sense, because I believe they hold fire as a holy object, but don’t quote me on that. And we all follow the Ten Principles. These aren’t exactly hard and fast rules, but more like guidelines of behavior to make sure that the festival is a success. Let me find them real quick for ya. They’re in no particular order, by the way. They are: Radical Inclusion, Gifting, Decommodification, Radical Self-Reliance, Radical Self-Expression, Communal Effort, Civic Responsibility, Leaving No Trace, Participation, and Immediacy. If you want explanations for each, follow this link to the event’s webpage.

    Also, feel free to peruse the site to find out anything you’d like. I’ll check back in later if you have any questions. And I can only hope you and yours can forgive my friends for going up the wall. They deal with this a LOT.

    • Hi Darien, have no more questions. You gave me enough to satisfy my curiosity I am curious to how you found the article posted here tho. Just gives me more folks to pray for! Blessings you you and thanks!

  • Again

    So everyone before Christians went to hell? What about people that are not for fear of death? What about primitive cultures that still exist today that have never heard of it? All condemned what a loving and merciful god he

    • Hi again,
      The consequences of sin is death and not just the death of the body. It is called the Second Death with eternity spent AWAY from God and in the Lake of fire with Satan.
      Every man has sinned. No one is good no not one for all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. Have you ever stolen anything or told a lie or looked with lust at a woman or man? Have you ever said the Lord’s name in vain? If you have, and everyone has, you are guilty in the eyes of God.
      God is Perfect and Holy and Righteous and by His very nature cannot lie. He cannot also live with sin because He is perfect Holiness. BUT He has made a provision for ALL of us sinners through His Son Jesus Christ. Jesus paid the penalty and price for you sins with His Holy Blood. He is the ultimate Judge and will judge you. But if will will see and accept His sacrifice and blood atonement for you sins, you are pardoned and can live in Heaven with Him forever. It is your choice your eteranl destiny. God does not impose anything on you, but offers you free pardon instead. God loves you and because of this love gives you the free will to spend eternity where you want ot. He tells you the 2 choices and then you must decide. Heaven with Jesus or Hell with Satan. Do you agree that the world is full of evil. From where do you think that it comes?
      If you love your very own soul then make the right choice today and choose Jesus Christ.

      • @Marie, Amen sister and so very well said!!

    • They will be judged according to their works, Again.

      • Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

        • Article: Burning Man Draws 68,00 to America’s Largest
          Pagan Cult Gathering.

          Date: September 01, 2013

          Comment (#384) made by Joseph:

          Siging off, you will never see another post from me!


          Joseph lied because he is still posting on this site.
          Can liars be trusted? Nope…


    • @ Again I believe God has ALWAYS had redemption of human souls foremost on His radar. This is clearly stated in the Bible. It is called “General” Revelation. Romans 1:20 “Since the creation of the world the invisible attributes of God can be CLEARLY SEEN and UNDERSTOOD by the things He made, even His eternal power and Divine nature and THAT is the reason humanity is without excuse.” This is the general revelation of God through His Creation. See also Psalm 19:4 Also the Apostle Paul further expounds on God’s general revelation of Himself to humanity and a means of salvation through mans Conscience in Romans chapter 2. He quite clearly answers your question that when men do not have the Knowledge of God either by His Law in the past or the Good news that He Himself came to redeem us by His own sacrificial death in Jesus on the cross that salvation through faith is and has always been available.
      Romans 2:13-16 “When gentiles, who do not have the law by nature do the things in the law, these although not having the law are a law unto themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts excusing or else accusing them in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ…” Once someone HAS heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ THEN they are judged by whether they believed and obeyed the gospel. God does not send people to hell because they never heard of Jesus Christ. He offers EVERYONE a chance to be welcomed into fellowship with Him! Including YOU Again! “The Son of Man came to seek and to save that which was lost” Because THAT is just the way our God Rolls!!!! We are going to say prayers for your eyes to be open to the love of God. That He will lavish His love upon you in a palpable way! So that YOU will be able to say with the rest of us that You have been Pursued and overwhelmed by the love of a Relentless God! We Praise and worship HIM, The LIVING God.

      • Hi Kevin so well put, thank you nice to see you Blessings in the Lord

      • @Kevin, HUH? What version is this out of. How confusing it is!!! Sorry.

        • Romans 2:13-16 is right out of the New King James.
          Romans 1;20 I quoted from memory and is the way Ive stated it scores of times while witnessing on the streets, mostly to unbelievers and mostly to atheists because they seem to understand Romans 1:20 best when stated that way. If you know a version that is clearer then share it with me by all means because the Gospel should be clear and understandable.

          • The NJKV is not an accurate translation…
            Do a search on Wescott/Hort and see the two streams of manuscripts Antioch vs Alexandria…All modern versions (perversions) take their translations from the Alexandria manuscripts…Even Geoff who promotes the heretic Peter Ruckman whio says he has been given new revelations and that the 1611 KJV is best…Do you see why Geoff promotes the 1611 KJV, who can read it? If you want to know that you are reading all of the Word(s) written correctly by God who inspired the Word(s), than you need to use the 1769 Cambridge edition of the KJV…There are wrong KJV’s out there…I can lead you to The Truth, but you have to drink… http://www.wayoflife.org David Cloud

          • Article: Burning Man Draws 68,00 to America’s Largest
            Pagan Cult Gathering.

            Date: September 01, 2013

            Comment (#384) made by Joseph:

            Siging off, you will never see another post from me!


            Joseph lied because he is still posting on this site.
            Can liars be trusted? Nope…


          • Kevin I thought I saved your wonderful story about hiking, but cant find it. Would you be so kind as to tell me on here where it is? Thanks so much have a great day w the Lord!

      • Article: Burning Man Draws 68,00 to America’s Largest
        Pagan Cult Gathering.

        Date: September 01, 2013

        Comment (#384) made by Joseph:

        Siging off, you will never see another post from me!


        Joseph lied because he is still posting on this site.
        Can liars be trusted? Nope…


  • Darien
  • Hi Theresa,
    Not everyone on this site or that comes to this site is a true Christian, no matter what they say they are. There are many pretenders and mockers here who come in the name of the Lord. If you know the true gosple, they will be quickly recognizable to you. Learn to be discriminating and stand on the Word of God only.
    All the best to you.

    • Amen Marie, Amen!!!

    • @Marie, So much truth in your post. You can sense the anger in these people whenever you disagree with them.

  • Again

    You talking about following blind. Word can’t expres how funny that is. Whatever makes u sleep at night.

    • Yes, that is what we do, follow the Lord blindly. With Faith, something unseen. That’s why you cant understand the concept, not to worry, but you may not have much time, one cannot ride the fence, you either believe or not which sends one to Hell. have a nice rest of wknd

      • No Theresa,
        We do not follow blindly. God told us exactly who he is. He laid it all out in the Bible. He painstakingly told us who we are, where we came from, who He is and how we are to be saved and even where would spend eternity. He told us how we were created and how the world fell. He told future prophecies to show us that only God knows the future and that when the prophecies happened as predicted 4,000 years ago, we would believe. He told us in over 300 prophecies in the Old Testament who the Messiah would be, where He would be born, that a friend would betray him for 30 peices of silve, which town he would be born in, how he would die, what the people would say to him while he was dying on the cross, how his garment would be treated, dice thrown for them. God told all these things, THOUSANDS of years before they happened, and gave a perfect picture of what Jesus would look like so that all would recognize Him. There is nothing blind about our faith at all. It is the complete blindness of others not to see it. They make sarcastic remarks about the Bible, but most have NEVER read it. You do not have to defend it to unbelievers. They will come to see it’s truth in the most harsh manner.

        • what did I tell you about what comes out of my mouth? For me personally I blindly follow Christ for exactly the reasons you give above. I do o=not question what His plan is or anything about the Bible Nothing, that’s what I meant, I a sorry to mislead or misspeak 🙂

        • @Marie, very eloquently said Marie!! Please do come here more often. We need your wisdom!! 🙂

  • Theresa,
    You did a great job of responding to him. I like the way you began witnessing. Bravo!
    Love, Mom Marie!

    • 🙂 Evangelisim was not my gift, wish it so was, but what comes from me wont make sense, just whats in my heart for whatever its worth!! Carry on Solderett! Blessings

  • Again

    Whoooo more bible quotes. Your vison of life after death is satanic. There was nothing in the beginning an there will be nothing in the end. Think for yur selfs once in a while it might save your life.

    • there is no life after death in your meaning. We do have life w Christ, that’s why He says we die to Him and He gives us life.

    • how can that be. nothing in the beginning so we are not really here? You are not alive and well? Think of myself? Don’t throw those things out there w no explanation exactly what you mean. I need to have things spelled out

      • Excellent reply Theresa.

  • Darien

    We have our resources. All Hail The Hypnotoad!

    • @Darin, you worship a Toad??? How disgusting!!!

  • Darien and Again,
    The only requirerment of Jesus is that you believe that
    He is God and that He died and shed His blood to pay for your sins and that He resurrected showing us all that He had permanently defeated Death for all of us if we only choose to believe. The gift is free. Take it my man, take it.
    Don’t you see that all of humanity is helpless and hopeless. God saw this and sent his only begotten Son into the world to die for us and free us from the bondage of sin forever. He could not have made it any simpler than to BELIEVE. God is gracious and Good and does not want you to spend an eternity without Him.
    Pray to Him and ask forgiveness for you sins and ask Jesus to be your Saviour. I pray that you do this son.

  • Again

    Keep contradicting yourselfs and stepping around my questions. You are right about one thing this is just the beginning

    • whos was contradictin self, explain please,and what questions were not answered by someone?

  • Dear Mockers, Spoofer:
    Your FINAL four words will be: Jesus Christ is Lord.

    • thanks Marie well said for the ONE!

    • Amen, Sister Marie!

    • Amen Marie, they will either bow here at the Cross of Christ, or they will bow at the Great White Throne Judgement, and there no man should want to be!!!

  • Again

    No it will be take me I’m ready

  • Dear Punah (Again)
    God will not be mocked.

  • Punah is Hindi for again.

  • Awesome, does this mean I can now get a tax deduction for all expenses related to regional and main burns? Hey ya know what religions get, freedom….

    Just a thought maybe we should register as a religion, toss out the BLM under the First Amendment. A $300 per person annual tithe to worship, that’s a lot less than 10% of most average incomes, I’m in!

    Off to register burning as a religion. Common in, we practice Radical Acceptance, ya know, unlike Christians.

    • Christians accept you they will just point out where thinking is misplaced I accept you and I don’t even know you. I also will tell you about my Lord and what He did for me, you can walk away no harm no foul

      • Please save your breath for someone who believes in allegorical tales and falsely associates legislative actions of 1500 years ago with gospel.

        As someone who’s been ‘thrown out’ of every church I’ve attend for asking questions about the glaring contradictions within the whole of the bible. I will not accept a singular perspective derived by a human from bureaucratically selected verses which can be twisted to mean anything when taken out of context of the whole. Or what Christians call a pastor.

        If it can’t be verified with fact it’s an ‘unknown’ and nothing more. If that unknown has an allegorical tale attached to it, that tale is nothing more than primitive human without the necessary scientific and intellectual tools needed to come to an understandable conclusion. Christianity, as all religions, has about as much relation to reality as Star Wars does.

        Also, I read this article, please do your research better. The ART THEME this year is Cargo Cult, which was a story of civilized westerners to aboriginal/tribal cultures, where the cultures were so amazed by shoes and shaving cream they started to worship the westerners as Gods, in their ignorance.
        “The term ‘Cargo cult’ was first used in print in 1945 by Norris Mervyn Bird, repeating a derogatory description used by planters and businessmen in the Australian protectorate of Papua. The term was later adopted by anthropologists, and applied retroactively to movements in a much earlier era.[11]” -Wikipedia.

        You guys really show how far your follow your thoughts with articles like this. If you’d gotten information from more than two news articles and our front page you’d know we’re an artists’ community that practices the free sharing of art without the restrictions and confines of commercialism, government, and religion telling us ‘what art is.’

        Over 60% of us are Atheists; the remaining 40% are moderate Christians as opposed to fundamentalists like this site.

        Whoever follows this site for anything more than comedic relief is just as dangerous to humanity as fundamentalist Islam’s, in fact I’d say all fundamentalists are cut from the same religion, beings easily controlled by fear and hate.

        Burners just create art and love, if you show up and bore us with your bed time stories (you could even call it a gift), we’ll just walk away and let you see our pretty things. Just don’t expect us to provide for you, we believe in Radical Self reliance, since I’ve found Christians to be the most dependent people on earth.

        If I showed up to your church as who I am, without social filters and adornments, I’d be shunned out before even given a chance. I’ve got volumes of life experience as proof how hypocritical organized religions are, especially fundamentalist ones.

        The difference between you and I, Burners don’t write articles complaining about how Christianity is ruining humanity, we just let you find simpletons to follow you and stay out of your way.

        If you had any respect for humans, you’d stay out of ours. Most of us have read your book, at least once and are looking forward to hell. No rules, no taxes, no oppressive daddy figure, and no controls; which are the exact reasons I left my ‘birth-church’ and every subsequent one after. I’m beyond your theocracies ability to control.

        • @ cookie…that is funny you say that, as some of on here are not in a organized church for those very reasons. So please do not lump all “christians” into one lump. You can go into a garage, but that doesn’t make you a car. So is it in Christianity. Many confess they are, but many are truly not! I am truly sorry for your bad church experiences. It is things like that why I myself am not in a church, also to much false teaching going on in a lot of churches now days. Give us a chance to answer your questions, if you will, as long as they are real questions, and not mocking God or Jesus. Maybe we can, and maybe we can’t, but we will try our best. Thanks…:-)

        • Article: Burning Man Draws 68,00 to America’s Largest
          Pagan Cult Gathering.

          Date: September 01, 2013

          Comment (#384) made by Joseph:

          Siging off, you will never see another post from me!


          Joseph lied because he is still posting on this site.
          Can liars be trusted? Nope…


  • KJ Proverbs 11:19-21
    As rightenous tendeth to life:
    So he that pursueth evil pursueth it to his own death.
    They that are of a forward heart are abomination to the Lord:
    But such as are upright in their way are His delight.

  • There is no such thing as a moderate Christian. You are either in or out. Since you despise Chritians so much LEAVE.

    • You write about my lifestyle with less than 10% of the knowledge about my culture, I can’t write about yours after reading your novel three times, questioning over 50 ‘christian ministers’ and ultimately frustrating each and every one of them with logic. Now you’re telling ME to leave. Sorry lady, you initiated contact, you can’t handle the storm you created, redact your half-thought-out conclusions and recognize us as nothing more than artists.

      The ones I feel sorry for are the Christian Burners who have to put up with your line of thinking. A MODERATE Christian is someone who doesn’t think Gays should be beaten with rocks until their straight, a moderate christian is someone who looks at the truth of burning man and say, “Ya know, could be fun.” A moderate christian is someone who doesn’t condemn anyone unlike them to hell. A moderate christian generally has a better understanding of the bible than fundamentalists because they realize the Old Testament was written a little over 4.5 million years AFTER the birth of the planet earth, the whole bible was compiled 1300 years after the supposed birth of Christ, and both have moral tales that were fitting to the times in which they were written but neither feasible connection to factual events. They take the moral tales and apply the ‘positive’ aspects and ignore fire and damnation for everyone who enjoys non-conventional sex.

      I despise hypocrites, and willfully ignorant humans. Which from being a burner and reading your article. I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you guys will believe anything your preacher man tells you too without any independent inquiry.
      That my dear, is willfull ignorance.

      Here this will help…


      Redact your story and apologize to the real Christians you’ve offended and I might leave, otherwise you’re going to have to figure out how to ban rotating IP addresses. My wife is gone and I’ve got nothing to do but watch the man burn and screw with you guys, all my friends are in Nevada, so you’re stuck with me like it or not.

      • Rev, one should never be a moderate Christian, they should always be on fire for the Lord, much like you are for your cause. That’s our problem is in past yrs Satan has taken them over and they are Moderate w Itchy Ears, all explained in the Bible you must remember reading it. I don’t think anyone on here has condemned a sole but expressed Scripture to spread the Gospel Have we/they? If I have forgive me please

      • Rev. Cookie, do you have AIDs yet? The Humanistic god of “yourself” has the curse of The infinite Benevolent and JUST Living God. In Romans Chapter 1 it reveals that sexual perversion like you are defending is a “consequence” of Suppressing the knowledge of the one and only True God.
        Romans 1;21 “Because they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God nor were thankful but became futile in their thoughts, and their FOOLISH HEARTS WERE DARKENED. Professing TO BE WISE THEY BECAME FOOLS… THEREFORE GOD GAVE THEM UP TO UNCLEANESS, IN THE LUSTS OF THEIR HEARTS to dishonor their bodies among themselves they exchanged the truth of God for the lie…FOR THIS REASON GOD GAVE THEM UP TO VILE PASSIONS…Likewise also the men…burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving IN THEMSELVES THE PENALTY OF THEIR ERROR WHICH WAS DUE.”
        When is the last time you had a checkup Rev?

    • @Marie, I was thinking just that. Moderate Christian??? I think not!! LOL 🙂

  • The fire

    Thank you rev finally some sane thinking. It’s people like you that I aim to be like. Hope to see you at the burn one day. And maybe it’s time to go get kicked out of a few churches. I have dozens of questions for them.

    • why would anyone make that a goal? May I ask what questions or acts got you kicked out? Thank you, have a nice eve

      • I’m tired of typing, here are a few I’ve gotten kicked out for.


        • Rev, so what you are saying you impersonated the President of the United States or Martin Sheen? Sorry you lost me

          • That I’m too tired to type out all the questions I’ve been kicked out for and making sure every bible quote I use is accurate and sited chapter and verse. So I found a fictional character which had lines similar to questions I’d asked.

            Are you found now?

          • OK yes, Amazing Grace that saved a Soul like me I once was lost but not am found twas blind but now I see. But to yours, I would just lay my Book against yours and we would discuss the meanings of ea. Thank you for conversation, one thing that cannot be stopped is us praying for you all, so we sure will do so. Have a great rest of the wknd

        • Martin Sheen is SUCH a jackass, and only liberals would think this was in any a refutation of bible beliefs…could only fool a pagan or a Catholic. No difference, actually…

          • @ NTEB
            I know MANY Roman Catholics who will shine with the brightness of the firmament and as the stars forever and ever.
            I was raised to think the Roman Catholic Church was the whore of Babylon and the pope was an antichrist.
            After spending countless hours in front of abortion mills (the modern day “High Places” of Baal) I have seen their tears I have heard the sorrow in their voices as they cry out toJesus Christ for the souls of women who would sacrifice their children. On bended knee crying out to Jesus Christ. My eyes have been opened to the fact that Jesus came to save SINNERS, not political parties, not denominations, not POPES but individual sinners one by one. I am not Roman Catholic, neither am I Protestant. I am a Christian who longs to follow the Lamb whithersoever He goest. I only want to be among the Heavenly throng from out of every tribe, kindred, tongue and denomination.

          • Boy that’s a tough one for me. Raised to think they worship the Pope which they do, Mary, which they do, forgiveness from Priest instead of talking to the Lord, Rosary and Hail Marys. I recently was on a Blog of theirs and oh boy what rules they have, could never be one! Having said that, I have to keep in mind what you said in my mind. We are all so categorized even in like beliefs it seems. Not in Gods eyes. yes some us should be but I think He sees us differently if we Believe and know have repented. The rest ? thank you


  • The fire

    Thank you rev your explanation is way better than anything I can type on this phone. I’m stuck at wok instead of being at the burn. I’d mess with these guys more but they’d just start yelling copycat. As ironic as that is.

    • My pleasure. I’ll be on Playa 2015 and floating around the South-Eastern Regionals until then. Hope to see you at Church!

      I totally have a new burn costume and persona out of this thread. 🙂

      Watch for the blue kilted cookie preacher at a burn near you!

  • The fire

    Oh and why I want to be like him. He condemns and hates no one. One of the major points in your book thing

    • you know Fire? If we feel condemned it is usually what is called conviction, guilt realized. Jesus never condemns anyone where did you miss that in the Bible? Well he did the Moneychangers. Sin is Sin and clearly laid out. Where did your Laws come from in the first place? Do you not follow them? Seems you all want to just do what you want and be responsible for no actions? Does that really work? Do you work? I don’t get it

    • Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
      Condemns no one? That not what God said.

      • Ron you know I need just my own site so I understand myself. I apologize in that I mean the context of earler thoughts about being kicked out of churches or not being welcome because MAN says you aren’t worthy to enter. Thank you for the Scripture, I do know that , I just phrased older thought, new ones, sorry

  • The fire

    🙂 I all I have for you. For anything else I have to say would just make you guys gloat even more. Leavin work for the burn party. Lets see if we can wake the devil eh?

  • The fire

    Bo yakka no yakka so yakka doh

    • Deamon?

      • you guys are talking to demons, remember, don’t cast your pearls before SWINE!!!!!!!!!

    • Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

    • (Romans 1:21 KJV) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

      (Romans 1:22 KJV) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

      (Romans 1:23 KJV) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

      (Romans 1:24 KJV) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

      (Romans 1:25 KJV) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

      (Romans 1:26 KJV) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

      (Romans 1:27 KJV) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

      (Romans 1:28 KJV) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

      (Romans 1:29 KJV) Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

      (Romans 1:30 KJV) Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

      (Romans 1:31 KJV) Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

      (Romans 1:32 KJV) Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

      • Hey D City, While you were posting Romans 1 so was I (See aprox Post 134) 😉
        The Lord always independently confirms His word!

        • Kevin , DC, Great minds think alike when it comes to God!

        • Amen Kevin The Lord is amazing.

          • Amen, It’s amazing how real we see that God is and others place us in the category of fools. If they just knew.

          • Amen my Precious Brother Ron. “If they just knew”
            Seldom, Very seldom does a day go by that God doesnt work a few of His Divine Coincidences.
            I was just in the mountains camping and working on the Pro Life Documentary. There were posters all over the place of a couple Weimeraners that had been lost. My dog is a Weimeraner. He disapeared and I was driving around looking for him. This guy came out of the woods saying he had found my lost Weimeraner. He noticed my Bible on the dash and we had coffee. I told him about the Documentary and its conception. How the Lord revealed to me several years ago that children conceived in rape and incest are most often special gifts from God. Messengers that he sends into the world with special appointments, gifts and talents, salt, light and good leaven because that is just the way our God Rolls! He started crying and told me HE was conceived in incest. His father beat him down about it all his life! He found healing and purpose that day. He was so moved that he asked me if I was an angel! 😉
            He never knew why God’s hand was so evident on his life, preserving him with a palpable love that he could see evidence of but couldnt quite understand. NOW he does and is on fire to tell his story and tell the world about his God!
            He never would have snagged my dog and we would not have met had not someone lost their Weimeraners and put the posters up! God has some pretty clever ways of working out His Providence doesnt he? And He did something like that again today. And He will tomorrow, and the day after that. THAT is one of the plethora of reasons I love Him!
            Yes Ron. If they only knew!

          • Hi Kevin, I too have experience similar stories but nothing so wonderful as that. If everyone could add to a Book all of them, non believers would not recognize the signs like we do. WHAT A GREAT PRAYERFUL way to end this ugly day. Blessings to you and your friend

          • @Kevin, that is so Awesome Kevin. That truly is a God thing!!! 🙂

          • Great testimony, Kevin. I just love it when the Lord uses His children that way. Thank you for the blessing. I pray it come back to you 10 fold in Jesus precious Name.

          • Article: Burning Man Draws 68,00 to America’s Largest
            Pagan Cult Gathering.

            Date: September 01, 2013

            Comment (#384) made by Joseph:

            Siging off, you will never see another post from me!


            Joseph lied because he is still posting on this site.
            Can liars be trusted? Nope…


  • Marie and Teresa,

    You two are wonderful examples of patience and love. I am encouraged by your willingness to engage and stand up for our Lord. Unfortunately I would have written these folks off a long time ago. Would have justified it by saying I’m done casting pearls befor swine. Sometimes you gotta just shake the dust off your feet. To those who are perishing the message of the cross is foolishness. Maybe you’ve planted some seeds and they certainly can’t keep us from praying for them. Thanks for being a beautiful example of a true Christian.

    Diana C.

    • Hi Diana, thank you but I am not worthy I only know how I feel. I been there done that so part of me is still there even tho this bunch was way over my head! We are all Gods Children and hard as it is, we are commanded to love them in Christ. Don’t have to like what folks do I guess is how it is for me. But I sure know many who feel as you and I understand their tiredness of not listening/hearing. Like an addicted person maybe, you get tired of broken trust and just Im done! I don’t know. Anyway you have a Blessed eve w the Lord

  • Revernd Cookie’s Non-denomination guide on how to be a good burner.

    Absolutely no affiliation with BMORG or any regional Burning Man organization.

    Radical Inclusion: You can stay if you’re having fun, you can leave if you’re not, we really don’t care.
    Gifting: Bring something to share, it’s nice.

    Decommodification: Don’t sell our advertise stuff in our home, we don’t want your financial influences.

    Radical Self-reliance: It’s the 21st century, all the knowledge you need to take care of yourself is out there for free on google. Take care of yourself already.

    Radical Self-expression: We love every aspect of who you are, express it, don’t hide behind artificially enforced rules.

    Communal Effort: Help the whole of the community, if you don’t you’re not being self-reliant.

    Civic Responsibility: Don’t irritate the feds too much.

    Leaving No Trace: pick your garbage up, your mom doesn’t live here.

    Participation: No pews, no chairs, no sloths, get up and do something.

    Immediacy: A 747 could land in your livingroom tomorrow; you got one life, live it.

    Revernd Cookie ministries follows all 10 principles of Burning Man, reinterpreted to fit our local congregation as all ‘religions’ do.


    Supreme Deity, who is it?

    We don’t worship a personification of anyone or anything. We build art as a reflection of our creative self, write music to express feelings no words can express, dance like there’s no tomorrow and love everyone willing to accept another persons love. If you must have an overlord, you can have one; we politely ask you not force it on anyone else. Our “effigy” is an artistic representation of human society. It stands over us, the whole of the world influences our every thought and motion, no human can avoid the influences of life on this planet. We annually destroy our representation of society in order to psychologically wash away the damage done to us by every day society. It is not an idol or person we worship it’s a representation of personal frustration with a broken society.

    What’s with this theme?

    Artists often find themselves stumped as to which color to paint with, which note to start on, or which material to sculpt with. The annually changing theme gives artists a mental kicking off point for their projects. The Burning Man Organization has provided themes to the community in the past such as Fertility, Hope and Fear, Metropolis and The Life of Cities. They are just artistic starting points for the community, nothing more.

    How much do I have to give?

    Invitation costs are determined by costs of organizing and maintaining infrastructure for the burn. Beyond that there is no financial obligation. We ask that you bring creativity, heart, love, and a willingness to share all of the above. Some people bring art that cost in the hundreds of thousands of dollars; others bring a tent and a big smile. Your call.

    What are your views on social concerns?

    We don’t hold any organization beliefs other than the 10 principles. We believe the majority of the moral decisions in life should be made by the individual not a democracy or oligarchy. One should obtain as much factual information as they can and make an informed decision on their own, it’s called radical self reliance. We ask that our community members do not shun others for their racial, sexual, religious or gender based proclivities; all humans are created equal, do not attack the person, educate them unto our ways.

    We hear you old burners are mean and grumpy, I thought you guys loved?

    You work half a year or more, for free, to bring a piece of art to the event and deal with all financial, personal, and creative problems associated with it’s creation and then watch a bunch of dirty 24 year old hippies sully your work with destructive excesses and lack of consideration. Tell me you don’t get a bit pissy from time to time. Sorry, it’s hard work so if you’re not here doing it, be thankful and take our tips on how to get stuff done and have maximum amounts of life experiences, unfortunately sometimes love hurts.

    How do I join your community?

    Show up, have fun, take something you’ve never experienced before home and learn from it. That’s it.

    Do I have to Burn all year round?

    Most don’t, we have real jobs, lives and families; but most burners find that their eyes are opened after they experience the burn. They come to realize that much of their previous life was lived incorrectly and make alterations at home to maximize the life experience and accommodate their new lifestyle.

    But the Burning Man Event has rules, for lots of things, why not you?

    Burning Man has rules to keep their community safe and/or out of the hands of corporate, government and religious interference. They’re not arbitrary, most are annoying necessities brought on by the default world.

    Do you have a moral-ethical guide book?

    Nope. Be nice, have fun, don’t mentally or physically hurt anyone if you can possibly help it or recognize it before hand. We know everyone screw up on occasion, don’t worry we’ll yell at ya, hit ya in the back of the head and then give you a hug. You’ll learn.

    Do I have to stop being (insert religion here)?

    Nope. You can stay Southern Alabama Methodist or Northern Massachusetts Lutheran if you wish, but if you’re homophobic, fear new and interesting things, or feel a need to judge everyone who’s not you; you probably won’t have much fun. If someone needs saving, it’s from a renegade art car, cops, or their own destructive behavior. No one needs to find any magical beings here; we’re all magical beings. So keep your religion in your pants where it belongs?

    Do I have to be bi-sexual, gay, pan sexual, overly sexual?

    Not really, many of us are highly sexualized individuals because sexuality is part of the human experience. If you’re not having fun in bed, you’re not living right at all.

    Can I get married at Burning Man?

    Of course, find someone with a card that legally allows them to hitch you two up and you can marry and remarry as many times as you want. My wife and I are going for wedding #2 for our burn and may have more over the years, we love getting married.

    I’m afraid of open flames?

    Ummm we’re called BURNING MAN, we love fire. It’s warm, it cooks our food, it keeps us alive on freezing desert nights, and it metaphorically ‘burns’ away negative aspects of life if you decide to let it. If you’re afraid of fire, you might want to rethink coming in.

    Are Burners going to hell?

    Who knows, if we are we can leave the propane on earth, if not we’ll need a big supply elsewhere. Going to hell requires belief in hell. No physical place that resembles Hell has ever been located by modern science. Heaven has the same fate, but Burning Man is Heaven to some, your call.

    I hear there are drugs? Do I have to take them?

    Exploration of self, for some, can involve varying degrees of chemical intoxication. We do not restrict self-exploration in any form, we ask that if you’re using intoxicants, please be intelligent and know your limits. Even aspirin can kill if you take too much of it. This sect of Holly Burners prefers sobriety, particularly to alcohol; it is chemically a poison and has no positive effects on the human systems, if you’re a drunken fool we’ll ask you to enjoy your intoxication elsewhere. If you’re too high to walk, we’ll let you sit on the couch and giggle for 15 minutes until you regain footing.

    Still afraid of us Fundamentalist Christians?

    Cookie – 5 year regional Burner preparing for a pilgrimage to Burning Man 2015 which I consider a holy venture for my self and my exploration of self. You don’t like it, don’t freakin’ show up. I don’t come to your church and host orgies, don’t bring your judgement to my spiritual place.

  • Deu 32:33 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.

    • Hey Ron,

      Is the rapture here yet? I’d really love for you guys to get what you want.

      You guys can go play harps on clouds free of anyone having opinions other than yours.

      I get to stay here, have an incredible bonfire with my friends and not have to worry about 1500 year old dogma trying to strike fear and subservience into my being.

      • You know, that is no ones choice but yours. It’s not any Christian in the world that makes that decision for you. It’s up to you if you believe in God or not, you have the option to change, it’s not to late. But if you refuse God you will face Him one day and your fear won’t matter any more, you will be doomed for that rejection. He gave you that choice in love it’s all up to you to make the right one. He doesn’t want rebellion in His kingdom that is why He did it this way. If you want to know Him He said Try me and see if I’m good. He’s saying that to you. You’ve tried everything else, why not try the real thing for once. He will fill the void in you empty life and make it whole. It’s all up to you. But the final say is going to be up to Him, Not any of us.

        • thank you Ron AMEN nicely put

          • Wow, nice guy you guys worship.

            Even the Christianity I grew up with wasn’t that mean.

            Frankly if ‘God’ rejects someone because they opt to do things like have sex, enjoy art, think freely and question absolutely everything to explore the one life we have. That life, which to date no one has shown any testable, verifiable proof of after-life. If I let a 1500 year old book and warm fuzzies convince me I might as well practice The Force or try and attain super powers from Gamma radiation, because they’re both equally intelligent.

            But lets say hypothetically you’re correct about everything.
            Is that the guy you want to hang with for eternity? A guy who punishes people the one ‘gift’ he gave us almost immediately. “You exist. You have free will. Don’t eat that fruit. Whops you’re out and I’m only coming to you morons in hallucinations from now on.” Then he comes out and says, “Oops ya screwed that up too, now I’m raping this woman and making her have my kid; he’ll try and teach you good things.” After 38 years he comes back, “That it last straw, I’m abandoning you kids, you’re on your own. When you’re done if you don’t believe in my your screwed; I’ll forgive everything else, murder, rape, misogyny, hate, fear, stupidity, genocide, but if you don’t declare faith to me you’re going to spend eternity at your MORE evil uncles house.” That’s a very interesting and depressing existence. We weren’t put here to explore the universe to the best of our abilities? We weren’t hear to expand our species to the point we populate other planets? We were simply put here to serve am over bearing father figure who abandon us right at the turning point of our intellect as a species? We’re rewarded with 60+ years of missery with the HONOR of worshiping him forever?

            He GAVE us free will, then says we have to believe a singular, unverifiable book as the explanation of ‘life the universe everything?’ Despite the contrary evidence science has produced, which he theoretically is responsible for. Then his final act is banishing us to a fiery damnation for the crime of questioning his utterly invisible existence which can ONLY be verified by refusing his singular gift after our first major grounding?

            You guys have some serious daddy issues. I usually dig that in women but you guys take it to a whole new level.

            Faith that denies the ability to question and verify, sure sounds like government mind control of olden days to me.

            Too bad 500BC – 1500AD didn’t have an Snowdin.

          • Like I said, God will not allow rebellion into His kingdom. Since He is, who He is, I guess that is up to Him to do it, His way, not yours or mine. And yes God is good, very good, but that is not what life is about. Life is a trial to see if you will rebel or not, by the temptations and trials we face everyday. The key to it all, is to hold on to your faith in God, when the going gets tuff. They say that salvation is not of works , but then fail to realize faith itself is a work. The whole purpose of being here is for your trial and if you qualify, by the Blood of the Lamb, then you will be rewarded the good that God has to offer. The Greatest blessing a Christian can have in this life time is peace and not the peace of the world but peace as only God can give. The assurance of eternal hope. You can be envious of it or you can be partakers of it. As I said before the choice is yours.

          • Wow!!!! I mean, wow!!!! You guys REALLY know how to make life miserable.

            Now, lets say you’re wrong and when you kick the bucket your energy becomes part of the universal collective energy, atoms, light, neutrino’s etc. When you die, nothing, just your matter and energies recycling on the planet until they reform into new matter/energy maybe 1 atom will go into a rock and 1 will go into a blade of grass. Maybe some will be come information in the internet in 20,000 years.

            If I’m wrong, I get to have an intellectual debate with a superior being. I love being proven wrong, but I require PROOF!

            If you’re wrong, you spent a portion or possibly your entire life, groveling before a fictional character based on interpreted hieroglyphics originally written around 3000 b.c. They were later dictated onto rudimentary paper by Islamic people after 3500 years of being transferred by word of mouth and manipulated by potentially hundreds of governmental entities. Then the stories were finally translated and interpreted by the reigning government at the invention of the printing press, at which point the Dictator ordered his version of the stories be printed, intentionally (or not) creating the largest governmental mass mind control experiment in history. The CIA should be envious.

            If you’re right, I get to argue and I may loose, but trust me I never walk away unheard. If you’re wrong, you spent your 1 and only life in this form spreading the faith of slavery and punishment in the hopes of attaining something intangible and unexplainable.

            Truly boggles the logical mind.

          • Now, you require proof? Okay if you require proof then the whole world is requiring proof. So now the whole world has proof and what happens, all wickedness of man knows who God is. Okay. What was God’s purpose to make man to serve him because he Knows God is real? No, God’s purpose is to have a wonderful group of people to serve Him because the are willing to believe in the Love that He is. That way these people will love one another and love Him and trust Him greatly. It’s the prefect plan. By your trial life you are judged and if you trust in Him for your life here after, then you would be the perfect candidate for eternal life. It’s His way of culling the bad seed from the good.
            My friend What is life anyway, If I’m wrong then , have I missed it all, drunkenness, sex and filth. no I’ve only missed the misery only the world could give. If I’m wrong my life is richer for nothing, I will live longer and really enjoy everyday of it. But If I’m right then God we judge me worthy of a life that never ends, That’s a long time. So if you right you party it up live like no tomorrow, what have you done but kill yourself early and sick the next morning for doing so. If you’re wrong, My friend what a foolish thing you have done traded a few good times off for a wonderful life with your maker. But we can go on and on. Their is only one true proof to know if God is real or not. And that is give it your best shot at knowing Him and see for yourself if He is real or not. Truly seek God for what He is. So, after you are convinced either way what have you wasted a year of your life in most. if you come to God, with a sincere heart, He will not turn you away. That will be all the proof you need.

          • Sir, You are struggling with reality, We accept it for what it is. There is no labor in our effort, only peace. That peace comes from know God loves us as His Children, It’s a personal relationship we all share and enjoy. Our lives are rich add full of excitement knowing we have but a short time to go before we see our labor come to fruition. We do not live in fear. We know our redeemer lives.

          • Psalm 34:8 (KJV)
            O taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

  • Where is Raymond? Has he been exposed?

    • Time to grow up.

      • No it’s time to cross every t and dot every i…If you are going to post, you need to be accurate and credible…ACTS 17:11…These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

        • Psalm 1:1
          Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly,
          nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

          Psalm 1:2
          But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate
          day and night.

          Psalm 1:3
          And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth
          his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth
          shall prosper.

          Psalm 1:4
          The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

          Psalm 1:5
          Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the
          congregation of the righteous.

          Psalm 1:6
          For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly
          shall perish.

  • Theresa B.
    You know what I like about you Theresa? You treat each person with such respect, love and kindness. You handle yourself with great aplomb (graciousness). That is what drew me to Jesus in the first place, was His great kindness and love. I have learned a lot from you. Thank you.

    • Not God’s Holiness…It should have been your sin that lead you to repentance…Acts 20:21 KJV

      • Joseph T B here are you talking to me?

        • No Theresa, I was referring to Marie’s comment about what lead her to The Lord, was his great kindness and love…That is not the gospel!

          • Hi Joseph What led you to the Lord?

          • GOD’S WORD(s),
            Showed me…
            Which lead to… REPENTANCE”=”FAITH”=”SALVATION”=”ETERNAL LIFE”…
            Only in…

            Acts 20:21…Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

          • Good Morning, I was just curious for some of us it was something personal. Thanks, have a great week w the Lord

          • Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    • Oh Sister, you know it took me yrs to accept a compliment, and am still not comfortable when it pertains to something I should normally do. I appreciate it deeply and thank Jesus for making it happen Blessings to you in His Name

  • Raymond, Come out, Come out where ever you are…Light exposes the darkness!

    • My real name is Raymond…

      Is Joseph your real name?

      • Why are you posting David Clouds material and claiming it to be your own? I have contacted him and he said you have stolen from him and that you are a Liar, check your e-mail. Yes, my real name is Joseph what is your problem with that? I am not the one claiming something that is not mine.

        • Welcome back Joseph.

          • THANKS DCity…What a bunch of immature “Christians.”

          • @Joseph,,,I thought that sounded like David Cloud. That is why I asked him what preacher wrote it, or if he did. I just wondered who really wrote it. But your write Joseph, if we are posting something that someone else wrote, we should say that up front! Thank you!! 🙂

          • I agree!

          • Good to see you back, I was for sure which Joseph you was so I didn’t respond, We have missed you, I sure Larue, has missed you , too, 🙂

          • “What a bunch of immature “Christians.””

            More rock throwing by Joseph.

    • “Come out, Come out where ever you are”

      What a childish thing to say..

  • burning man IS a pagan festival. We DO have the CEOs of google, microsoft and apple out here. We ARE taking over the world, and we DO want to indoctrinate your children.

    Deal with it.

  • Mike
    Enjoy Judgment Day-Deal with it.

    • LOL, good one Marie!! 🙂

  • Truly, where is the DISCERNMENT on this site?

    Go to http://www.wayoflife.org and get some real meat.

    • What is your full name?

      • Raymond, you have my e-mail, you want to contact me then e-mail…I will not get into a debate about what you did on this site…I could 2 Timothy 3:16 most of the milk “Christians” on this site…

        • You vilified me publicly, so explain yourself publicly so
          everyone can see what is being said..

        • Joseph, It was quite obvious that Raymond was quoting others here and made allusions to it. I COPIED quite a few of his posts because they were ringing of truth. (Something I seldom if ever do) I dont care WHO the original source is! It is very good material to advance against hell’s gates and strongholds with. WHY are you attacking him?
          One question for you. Who is called “The accuser of the Saints” in the Scripture? Who, besides YOU is bent on silencing and neutering the witness of Gods people against the wickedness of this dark age? ? ? ?
          If you are an elite “Strong meat” Christian then you should be considering how you might stir other “Milk” Christians up to love and good works.

          • Kevin, since I did not know what was going on, and the Site to go to was posted went looking. It came up and went there, but also what came up were a few not so nice so I asked for explanation and have not got one yet.

          • Thank you Kevin.

          • I did not see one link to http://www.wayoflife.org
            The right thing to do is give the credit for another Pastor’s/Missionary’s who has done the work…Why would you give any impression it is your own, no matter how obvious it “might” seem…You are the one causing division, by not stating the truth.
            P.S…You see Raymond posted a disclaimer, if he was so right , why did he clarify? Which is all I wanted done…I am more than appreciative for that…If you want to condemn me for contending for the faith, than do not call yourself a Christian.

          • I apologize for not being clear enough. Perhaps I should restate it; “WHO in the Scripture is called the “Accuser of the Saints” WHO, besides YOU is bent on silencing and neutering the witness of God’s people against the wickedness of this dark age????

            Raymond, keep on stirring up our hearts to love and good works Like we are supposed to be doing) and dont be discouraged by the devices of the adversary to silence you! There is a raging war to wage against the gates of hell and we appreciate your input. I read an entry in John Newtons diary. He said “He treated me with utmost contempt and indecency! THIS is the first time I have been publicly insulted for the gospel’s sake! LORD…help me to DESERVE IT!” This quote has been a source for much consolation to God’s people outside of Planned Parenthood when we are attacked by the devil’s minions!

          • Thank you Kevin for your kind words.

            I agree, there is raging war going on.
            Seldom a day goes by when I am not
            attacked by someone for something.
            It seems that those who serve Satan
            most faithfully are highly skilled at
            twisting God’s Word, i’ve seen this tactic
            on other websites too.

          • I loved what Raymond posted, for the most part. But it is true that we should not take credit for another man’s work. That being said, I am still thankful for the articles!!! 🙂

          • Joseph,
            May the Lord rebuke thee.

          • This is for Raymond and all those who thought it not wrong to post someone else’s material! I also learned something through this, about posting material even when you ARE giving credit to the author. Hope this is helpful! Joseph

            WAY OF LIFE LITERATURE SHARING POLICY: Much of our material is available for free, such as the hundreds of articles at the Way of Life web site. Other items we sell to help fund our expensive literature, video, and foreign church planting ministry. Way of Life’s content falls into two categories: sharable and non-sharable. Things that we encourage you to share include the audio sermons, O Timothy magazine, FBIS articles, and the free eVideos and free eBooks. You are welcome to make copies of these at your own expense and share them with friends and family, but they cannot be posted to web sites. You are also welcome to use excerpts from the articles in your own writings, in sermons, in church bulletins, etc. All we ask is that you give proper credit. Things we do not want copied and distributed freely are items like the Fundamental Baptist Digital Library, print edition of our books, PDFs and other electronic editions of the books that we sell, the eVideos that we sell, etc. The items have taken years to produce at enormous expense in time and money, and we need the income from sales to help fund the ministry. We trust that your Christian honesty will preserve the integrity of this policy. “For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward” (1 Timothy 5:18).

    • Wayoflife.org is a great website, in my opinion.

    • @Joseph, I did ask him what preacher wrote it, does that count??? I was thinking it sounded like David Cloud to me. But I didn’t want to accuse him, if I was wrong…

  • What is not gospel Joseph. That I heard about Jesus, sat down and read the entire Bible without stopping, saw that I was a sinner, repented and accepted Him as my Lord and Savior. I didn’t know that you tell God how to reach people.

  • Thank you Raymond.

    • Hi Maria,
      This person Joseph is new to me.
      What can you tell me about him?


  • Marie, stop wasting your time to even comment on this pagan “Rev.” It only feeds him and you lose your credibility and witness .We are not to strive with those who refuse to hear Truth. By the way, did you get my reply to you about Raymond and his Lies? I have documented the facts and he will not even reply.

    • I have lost nothing Beb, but your eternity is lost, you can change that if you REPENT.

  • Bo

    Hello – I just couldn’t make it through all if these post to see if any recognized what was in one of the photos above? The pyramid with the eye of horus (lucifer). The light bearer. And I think the third photo was a mini church of some type? Do you see the eye of horus (lucifer,satan,devil) smack dab in the middle of it? Satan has his ways of taking people who don’t have direction, don’t have Jesus in their hearts and lead them to this. This is a Devil worshiping commune and they don’t even know it. Check out the eye in both pictures. God Bless to you all. Keep Jesus’s death , burial and resurrection in your heart mind and soul. Keep your eyes looking up for His return.

    • Hi Bo, nice to see you. been a rough day here so much hatred but it is seen as coming from us.Regulars posted all day against it. Yes the signs are everywhere once you recognize them huh? You take care and have a blessed eve in the Lord.

      • Bo

        Teresa B. – Hi – You and I are both newbies in our faith. You bring great info for us to read. You show us how you really want to be full of Jesus. We all do. But my friend in Christ …please don’t think you have to answer to every ones post. I love Raymonds posts. I really like some posts here by others. Yes…Even Heather. But Teresa…pick and choose your spots. Because It just gets you in a mood I don’t think you like to be in. Skip over those who are just going to make you frustrated. There are God loving people here. Don’t think you have to answer to all. They know how you feel. Raymond knows how I feel and I’ve never replied to him. God Bless.

        • Oh Bo, I know you are right about the posts. I am just built differently. I used to go to the Mailbox 2 blks away from Grandmas house and she ALWAYS got mail She knew everyone,and in her Family was the Generational link, by writing. I love to read but don’t remember much, just curious why people think a certain way, expecially when they hate God even tho they know exactly who He is from being in a Church or ?. Many things can drive one away if they do not strong. Not everyone is healed overnight. So am just curiousity person. Take care 🙂

    • Bo

      What you see in those photos is what you see on the back of our $1 bill. The pyramid with the all seeing eye. (Satan)

  • You go by many names Joseph but they a common root-Beelzebub.

    • That is what drew me to Jesus in the first place, was His great kindness and love. Those were your words Marie…By the way do you use a KJV bible…Then learn how to spell, Saviour is the correct KJV spelling, not Savior…

      You really have some nerve making reference to my name as Beelzebub, shows just how immature and blind you are…

      • “Then learn how to spell”

        Are you the spelling police on this site?
        Thanks for showing your true colors.

    • To call a true Christian endowed with the Holy Spirit, is Blasphemy against that anointing, and is a sin that can not be forgiven, be careful what you say your tongues will condemn you if you are not careful. You better know what you are saying, the Pharisees didn’t, but their judgment was the same. Caution to the wind, please!

      • Ron,
        I do not know Joseph nor how he is endowed, Holy Spirit or Evil spirit. He talks like the devil though.

        • My point is they didn’t know if Jesus was or not either, Just be careful what you say, it is dangerous to speak certain things.

  • Well, satan wants to attack all of us here tonight. Jesus protects us.



  • Well Marie, apparently you want to be lead by blind men…I am done, this is not even a ministry I would even follow…Are you in agreement with what Geoff teaches…Are you aware of Peter Ruckman and his heresies, are you in agreement with Geoff’s false teaching on two salvations…Then I have nothing else to add to this site…All you people seem to do is just spend endless hours appealing to the flesh when you show how little you discern…

    • Jesus is not blind.

      • Marie, you milk fed baby….I said “Blind Men”, how did you interpret that to Jesus? Really, take both of your feet out of your mouth and grow in wisdom and discernment, It’s called The Fear of The Lord!!!

        • Good Morning Joseph, I have just been reading some of your accusations/name calling to people, more than one, and I am speaking to you now. Already said this to others. It is VERY UNGODLY to do such. We are not to call people names, we do call them out of wrong Scripture but to let emotions get out of line is totally wrong. I believe its called Self Control. I have asked all that do this to please stop it falls on deaf ears but it should not. Blessings to you

          • Well put Teresa B.

          • Teresa B…This is from your “sister” Marie, In (Christ?)…Which Jesus are you serving? This is what she said about me…Did you rebuke her?

            #261 written by Marie
            about 13 hours ago


            You go by many names Joseph but they a common root-Beelzebub.

          • Hi Joseph, to answer your question I believe I said all. If you have followed me here I am the broken record on this and I will not quit like others wont, that’s all. Blessings to you

          • Well spoken, just like someone who has no defense for her actions!
            Why would you even say “blessings to you” for all the things you say I have said, that is not bible…Guess you have no time for searching the scriptures between all your blogging and watching America’s Got Talent…I am sure the Lord would be honored for all the filth that they promote on that show.

        • “Really, take both of your feet out of your mouth”

          More meanness from Joseph.

    • Amen, Brother. I have no idea what this is about but what you said here is truth. That spell sure did work and now the devil is laughing.

    • “Then I have nothing else to add to this site”

      When are you leaving?

      • Like a dog returning to his own vomit!

      • Raymond says he has better things to do than to answer me, but yet he keeps posting my comments….That is what I meant “like a dog returning to his own vomit” Raymond can not help himself!

  • JESUS CHRIST IS GOD. Does that burn your ears?

  • Good Night Marie, stay in your ignorance!!!

    • “Good Night Marie, stay in your ignorance!!!”

      More viciousness from Joseph.

  • Jesus is not blind.

  • Before you call someone a liar you should
    have your facts straight.

    1). Compare what I posted to what David McCloud
    wrote, you will find they match.

    2). Some of what I post on this site and others is written
    by David McCloud & others.

    3). It’s the message not the messenger that matters,
    unless it’s God’s Word.

    4). I have been receiving news letters from wayoflife.org
    for some time. I agree with most of what he says but not all.
    I believe David McCloud to be a man of God. I’ve emailed
    him directly and in my opinion he is not very friendly.

    5). I know you’re stressing out about this matter so remember this…… Unless I write “authored by Raymond” assume it was
    written by someone else… Are you happy now??


    • His name is David Cloud, not David McCloud…Can you not even get that right?

      As I said, to your beloved follower Marie, Good Night and stay in your ignorance!!!

      • You’re right, I made a spelling mistake.

        • “His name is David Cloud, not David McCloud…Can you not even get that right?”

          You really are a vicious person.

    • Hi Raymond, no dog in this but when I type Mr. McLoud in, most came up not so good, this is one of them, maybe you could explain for me since I don’t know what everything said means? Thank you have a nice eve in the Lord

      • Hi Teresa B.

        David Cloud has a website called
        wayoflife.org. In my opinion, his
        website is a good one. I would recommend it.

        His last name is Cloud, I make a mistake
        calling him McCloud. It is late and i am tired.

        • Yes I found but I the process found the other articles thus asking for sorta explanation is all, thank you

        • Raymond, I still appreciate that you posted those articles. thank you for that!!! Keep encouraging the body of Christ. 🙂

    • This is for Raymond and all those who thought it not wrong to post someone else’s material! I also learned something through this, about posting material even when you ARE giving credit to the author. Hope this is helpful! Joseph

      WAY OF LIFE LITERATURE SHARING POLICY: Much of our material is available for free, such as the hundreds of articles at the Way of Life web site. Other items we sell to help fund our expensive literature, video, and foreign church planting ministry. Way of Life’s content falls into two categories: sharable and non-sharable. Things that we encourage you to share include the audio sermons, O Timothy magazine, FBIS articles, and the free eVideos and free eBooks. You are welcome to make copies of these at your own expense and share them with friends and family, but they cannot be posted to web sites. You are also welcome to use excerpts from the articles in your own writings, in sermons, in church bulletins, etc. All we ask is that you give proper credit. Things we do not want copied and distributed freely are items like the Fundamental Baptist Digital Library, print edition of our books, PDFs and other electronic editions of the books that we sell, the eVideos that we sell, etc. The items have taken years to produce at enormous expense in time and money, and we need the income from sales to help fund the ministry. We trust that your Christian honesty will preserve the integrity of this policy. “For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward” (1 Timothy 5:18).

  • What about 2 salvations?

    • Marie, Geoffrey teaches one for the Gentile and one for the Jew in tribulation.

      • Thank you for telling me that. What do you mean one for the Jew in tribulation?

        • He teaches from what I understand of it. that the Holy Spirit will be gone and the Jews or tribulation saints will not be saved under grace like we are today. They will be saved by works once again, according to NTEB and others on this site. I do not believe that, but I hope I’ve represented them correctly.

      • @Ron, Oh, so they are Hagee-e-nites??? LOL 🙂

  • Raymond,
    I emailed you and have not heard back from you yet.

    • I’m sorry Marie,

      I have a lot going on in my
      life at the moment. I promise I will


  • Theresa,
    I am ready for lesson two!

  • Hi Raymond,
    I have no clue to who is Joseph. At first I thought he was one the the burning men, then he made a connection between you and I, maybe because I was so glad when you appeared. Then he started insulting me over what I said to Theresa and saying I was following blind men. I said Jesus is not blind. He speaks like the devil to me and I responded in kind. I need lesson 2 from Theresa.
    I am sorry that he has attacked you also. Another interloper I assume. I do not know from whence he came.

  • Ron,
    Thank you. I had no idea that Geoffrey taught the Dual Covenant Theology here. I am shocked. That is FALSE gospel. What else does he teach?

    • @TMarie,,They promote ,the Harbinger book! 🙁



    • @DC, yes,. Amen That is my King too!!! I love that!!!

  • Raymond, I don’t understand what is going one here. but if and I say if you are using someone’s doctrine and they are angry at you for it, that doesn’t look good. And now you are condemning the man yourself even looks worse.


  • Theresa,
    May I share your headache with you tonight?

  • Hit the road Jack don’t cha come here no more no more
    Hit the road Jack don’t cha come back no -o- more.

    Remember that song?

  • sharing someone who played in the Praise Band when I sang w them, Amazing Grace/Jesu Joy of Mans Desiring,

    Strong Christian man and so talented I guitar

  • Raymond you are a man of integrity. Of calmness and maturity. I saw that right away. I and others really appreciate you and what you write here. You are so right, who wrote it does not matter, it is the content. This should have never been an issue but that Joseph of many colors, attacked you tonight. He also attacked me. he came out of nowhere, as the antichrist will come, just to attack us and try to trip us up and make us fall over ourselves. he did not succeed although he tried very hard. Bless you Raymond for the kind of man that you are and for blessing us all with God’s Word and your great insight and information. WE really appreciate it and you.
    Marie, and I am sure that I sopeak for others as well.

    • Thank you Marie for your kind words.

    • Marie, does the word Jezebel mean anything to you?
      Who is the one who told you about Geoff’s two salvations? You have not once reproved me, so be very careful what you say about others when you yourself are making false accusations about a brother who is sharing truth, but you would not know that since you have been blinded by Satan himself for you to follow mean… As far as Raymond, it does matter when you are using someone else’s hard work and not giving the credit where it is do, they called it footnotes, did you go to school? It is stealing…You use words to describe someone who you have never met, just by what is written, do you know that the scriptures tell us to let no man deceive you? 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)…Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
      Think on That!!!

      • “Marie, does the word Jezebel mean anything to you?”

        What a mean thing to say Joseph.

        • Raymond, yopu seemed t have overlooked marie’s comment about me, let me refresh your ignorance;

          #276 written by Joseph
          about 30 minutes ago


          Teresa B…This is from your “sister” Marie, In (Christ?)…Which Jesus are you serving? This is what she said about me…Did you rebuke her?

          #261 written by Marie
          about 13 hours ago


          You go by many names Joseph but they a common root-Beelzebub.

      • Joseph,
        I used to post on a website called motherjones.com
        It’s a website controlled by George Soros. You are
        using the same tactics as some on that website used
        to silence me. I’ve also noticed that you are highly
        skilled at twisting God’s Word. The Lord will deal with

      • “As far as Raymond, it does matter when you are using someone else’s hard work and not giving the credit where it is do, they called it footnotes, did you go to school?”

        You’re a vicious and arrogant person Joseph.


    • @Marie, I agree. What he has been posting is truth, regardless of who wrote it. And, what did Joseph gain by his attack? Not a thing.

    • This is for Raymond and all those who thought it not wrong to post someone else’s material! I also learned something through this, about posting material even when you ARE giving credit to the author. Hope this is helpful! Joseph

      WAY OF LIFE LITERATURE SHARING POLICY: Much of our material is available for free, such as the hundreds of articles at the Way of Life web site. Other items we sell to help fund our expensive literature, video, and foreign church planting ministry. Way of Life’s content falls into two categories: sharable and non-sharable. Things that we encourage you to share include the audio sermons, O Timothy magazine, FBIS articles, and the free eVideos and free eBooks. You are welcome to make copies of these at your own expense and share them with friends and family, but they cannot be posted to web sites. You are also welcome to use excerpts from the articles in your own writings, in sermons, in church bulletins, etc. All we ask is that you give proper credit. Things we do not want copied and distributed freely are items like the Fundamental Baptist Digital Library, print edition of our books, PDFs and other electronic editions of the books that we sell, the eVideos that we sell, etc. The items have taken years to produce at enormous expense in time and money, and we need the income from sales to help fund the ministry. We trust that your Christian honesty will preserve the integrity of this policy. “For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward” (1 Timothy 5:18).

  • I just want to thank all who bailed me out at times today when I needed Scripture for someone or in the Deamon case I felt was quoted against Satan but for me. This was a difficult day for me and frankly I am worn out. I was back and forth between another non Christian Blog with people that have such a hatred for Christians, Jews, Life I general. And they are schooled some in Scripture as far as knowing it exists. HERE same thing all day w no let up. I was almost naseus(sp) because my heart is so sad. At least on here its anger/irritation NOT hate. This site was under Spritual Attack at a very high level today. But the Lord gets the last word when we Pray and Rebuke satan. Thanks again In His Name

  • Joseph came not to bring God’s word or peace but to attack and divide. He did not come to witness to the lost or comment on the news. he came bearing arms of slander. He did not win did he, we are all a little closer together. Satan slanders and divides. He was not successful here tonight. He could not rob us as he planned to do. Jesus Christ ALWAYS wins. Praise The Lord now and forevermore.
    We witnessed today, we defended our Lord, we got to know each other better. I really appreciate getting to know people and learning from them. Good night all.

    • Hi Marie, I do know that YES Jesus Christ always wins and He is the same today yesterday and tomorrow! good night and PTL

    • @Marie, I don’t believe this is the same Joseph that was posting here a few weeks ago. He was very kind. However, did you notice how Joseph just popped out of no-where whenever Raymond was getting everyone’s attention. Doesn’t that seem strange to you? Just think how long Raymond has been teaching, and suddenly (someone) wants to stop him. Think about it!!!!!

  • Hi Ron,
    That does not sound like dual covenant theology to me. I am not quite sure that I understand this. I will have to study. Could you elaborate a little more? Would you explain the principle of it to me? Thank you for sharing with me.

    • Marie I’m not an expert on their doctrine of Eternal Security and their take on salvation. I only know what I believe. I have never followed mans understanding . I made a covenant with God as a child, I hold to that. I seek him alone for my Knowledge. Many condemn me for that but I don’t care, I was raise up in church and went all most of my life, but things of prophecy I leave to God. I learned along time ago not to trust in mans understanding. But I left you a little on the subject below, I hope it helps, Blessing to you.

    • DC I am overwhelmed as that song does that to me at certain times. Because the day was rough, that is exactly the right thin for me! My fave is El Divo w Bagpipes so on first one I knew when Divo built and they came in, then I came to BAGPIPES. Ea Labor Day about 30 Mi away is a Big Scottish Festivel w the whole 9 yds about e days worth. We have never gone but my luck they would play every song but it! I love them tho so no biggy. Thank you so much for blessing me tonight w these songs.

  • Joseph,
    Get behind me Satan. I want no converstaion with you. In the name of Jesus Christ, leave me alone.

  • ………………..here is an instrument that will make you freeze and think peacefully.


  • MARIE–Galations 4:16…Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
    Who are you to tell me to leave this site…My comments are ever bit allowed as your confusion is…What, you do not know enough bible to reprove or correct me? You do not even know about Geoff’s false teaching on two salvations and you want to condemn me…I am glad that I have aggravated you to maybe search the scriptures…

    2 Timothy 3:1-17…This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

    2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

    3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

    4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

    5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

    6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

    7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

    9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their’s also was.

    10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

    11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

    12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

    13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

    14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

    15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

    • Joseph,
      I see you are still twisting things.
      I thought you said you were leaving this site…
      Just say good bye.

      • Romans 12:19…
        19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

        • Amen Joseph! One of the most powerful weapons in the Bible is revealed In Ephesians 4:32 “And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God, in Christ forgave YOU.”
          I just witnessed one of the most beautiful examples of that power. One of the women we interviewed for God’s
          Pro Life Documentary was conceived in rape. Her Biological mother who had given her up for adoption as a young teenager always had the hope they would be reunited. For 48 years she kept the only picture she had of her. When Juda found her mother in a Nursing home she wanted to thank her for giving her life and told her mother she was a hero. Juda asked her about the circumstances of her conception. Her aged mother told her about how 8 men had beaten her, raped her and left her for dead. Juda laid her head in her mother’s lap and began to weep. Her mother said: “STOP your crying! I have forgiven those men and now look at what God has done! He’s brought you back to me!” In just one sentence this little old woman blew Hell’s gates right off their hinges! THAT in my humble opinion is a strong meat Christian!

  • Off Topic but important. I don’t know how many of you shop at Hobby Lobby but they are an awesome place! Just got this:


  • Ron,

    Dual-covenant theology is a Christian view of the Old Covenant which holds that Jews may simply keep the “Law of Moses”, because of the “everlasting covenant” (Genesis 17:13) between Abraham and God expressed in the Hebrew Bible, whereas Gentiles (those not Jews or Jewish proselytes) must convert to Christianity or alternatively accept the Seven Laws of Noah to be assured of a place in the World to Come.

    So, I take it that this was not what you were referring to, but rather a pretrib view that says that in the tribulation people will not be saved in the same manner as they are now in the age of Grace? Is that correct?
    Thank you.

    • I believe that is how they see it, Marie. I believe Grace is the gift of God of His Son for the washing in His Blood on our sins to make us white. Salvation in the washing, only because we believe on Him. This act is not taken away from the Jews, They have to accept Him in the same manner. We clearly see the Tribulation saint doing this:

      Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
      So, in my view it is impossible what they say. Maybe they have another definition of Grace or Salvation? I don’t know.

      • They believe they are of a special dispensation of Grace and it is reserved for them only. They have no scripture that says this of course and they try to teach it through what they call dispensation and a special understanding of scripture. Again no scripture for this at all whatsoever. All they do is create question after question with this teaching.

        We know what the Lords word says about teachings that cause questions:

        (1 Timothy 1:4 KJV) Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

        Again they do not understand the blindness that is given unto Israel. God has caused them to be blinded till the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Again they jump through hola hoops to explain in and around all this confusion and it stems from the pre trib rapture teaching.

        See the fullness of the Gentiles and when it comes in and when the blindness is removed from Israel is easy to understand from post trib and the bible clearly explains it.

        Israel is blinded till fullness of Gentiles comes in.

        (Romans 11:25 KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

        Well we just have to find out when the fullness of Gentiles comes in and when blindness is removed from Israel. Since there is saints (many gentiles) dying during the great tribulation right up to the rapture which Jesus says happens Immediately after the tribulation. (Matt 24:29).

        Saints dying in great tribulation are under grace as well since they are dying for Jesus Christs name sake. We are all saved under grace as you will see before I am finished.

        (Matthew 24:9 KJV) Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations FOR MY NAMES SAKE.

        And the Lord says we are not appointed to wrath. Since he is talking to all saints, chosen (elect), people under grace. Then it stands to reason that the people in the great trib who are the saints as well are not appointed to wrath either. Thus once again proving the great tribulation is not Gods wrath at all. Gods wrath is poured out Immediately after the tribulation just after we are gathered.

        The Lords wrath comes at the day of the Lord.

        So again blindness to Israel till the fullness of Gentiles is grafted in.

        (Romans 11:25 KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

        We now need to find out when grace is poured upon the children of Israel which will be the remnant that remains from the great tribulation after we are gathered. When we are gathered is when the fullness of gentiles has come in.

        So we go to Zechariah 12 and thats all about the day of the Lord (when the Lords wrath comes).

        (Zechariah 12:9 KJV) And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

        (Romans 11:26 KJV) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

        (Zechariah 12:10 KJV) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

        (Zechariah 12:11 KJV) In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. (Armageddon).

        (Romans 11:26 KJV) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

        (Zechariah 12:10 KJV) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

        And these next three verses here you see the remnant being mentioned that were sealed to be protected from the Lords wrath which happens at the Day of the Lord which is when we are gathered (fullness of gentiles has been grafted in).

        (Zechariah 12:12 KJV) And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;

        (Zechariah 12:13 KJV) The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;

        (Zechariah 12:14 KJV) All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

        Again Zecheriah 12 is all about Day of the Lords wrath and that is when grace is poured upon the remnant of Israel. They get sealed as well to be protected through the Lords wrath (which is after great tribulation after we are gathered). This remnant of Jews will be the main population of the 1000 year millennium reign of Jesus Christ.

        Fullness of gentiles comes in at Day of the Lord and we can see at the Day of the Lord grace is poured upon the house of David and inhabitants of Jerusalem. Which is the remnant of Jews after they have been desolated. The Lord shows up and they turn to God.

        • Amen, D City.

          • Amen Brother its clear to see Israel is blinded till the fullness of gentiles come in.

            (Romans 11:25 KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

            Now all we need to know is when the blindness is lifted from Israel. Which is when the Lord will pour the spirit of grace upon the house of David.

            (Zechariah 12:4 KJV) In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.

            Interesting he smites them with blindness. hmmm where have we heard this before. hmmm

            (2 Thessalonians 2:8 KJV) And then shall that Wicked be revealed,whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

            (Zechariah 12:10 KJV) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

            (Zechariah 12:11 KJV) In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. (Armageddon)

            Zechariah 12 which is at the DAY OF THE LORD. That blows the pre trib rapture out of the water and into the fire furnace.

          • See if the fullness of the gentiles comes in when Israel’s blindness is lifted and we see Israel’s blindness is lifted at the DAY OF THE LORD. Well then no pre trib rapture cause the blindness comes off Israel AFTER THE TRIBULATION AT THE DAY OF THE LORD. Showing the fullness of gentiles comes in then and not before.

          • Amen Brother that’s right on. It could be at the very minute the two witnesses go into heaven, as everyone sees them. If so proving the rapture happens at this time and the 144k are seal at the same time , as described in scripture.

            Eze 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

            Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
            Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
            Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
            Just some possibilities. The Jews being destroyed and a remnant of the earth quake giving God Glory, would more than likely be the 144k. Or who else would be Glorifying God?

  • Gotta see this one!!!!!!! wow!


    • Good Morning, I waited till this morning as I got violently ill and had to go to bed. This is the most amazing recording for me and the song speaks for itself. It was yrs before I could even listen to it as I felt so unworthy. When that all changed, I can listen and even sing at times cuz I AM CRYING feeling Gods Love and His Grace. 3 Beautiful songs there Mister, thank you so very much, May you and yours be blessesd w a wonderful day!! 🙂

      • I hope you are feeling better Teresa B.

        • Hi there Raymond, thanks a bunch, yes a little but mad as I cant go to the church I just found, you know! Next time. You take care and have a Blessed day w the Lord.

      • Yes great song Teresa B. as for the violent illness, hope its nothing serious. I will say a pray for you.

        • thanks for prayer, just a little left PTL! Listening to How Great Thou Art, another I can barely get thru!! I know Billy Graham is not like on here, but when I was 10 I lived w my Grandma and when we went to bed on Sun he was on and Geo Beverly Shea sang it with his Baritone voice. I know my first seeds were planted going to sleep w Billy. Have a great day!

  • http://youtu.be/WkIJfLfzZ0w Dallas Holm RISE Again!!!

  • I am not an Hagee-ite, nor do they teach dual covenant theology here.

    • @I didn’t mean you Marie. It was a joke…

  • Just shows how deceived Marie is!!!
    Do you ever listen to Geoff’s teachings, he emphatically states that position…Do we have to do all your research for you, MARIE?

    • Joseph is still attacking people.

  • When Paul rebuked Peter, was he also attacking? Or was he standing on scripture? 2 Timothy 4:2…Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. (Do you see what the scripture says, DOCTRINE!!!)
    Paul named the names, how is it you missed that in your Bible? So far Raymond, you have had to back track on all that has been said about this whole situation, why do you not just biblically correct me through the Word(s) of God….That is what contending for the faith is!

    • Joseph,
      Back track? Actually no I did not.
      What I did do was explain what I am doing and why.

      I am not going to spend hours debating with you,
      I have more important things to do. please don’t waste my time.

      • No one is forcing you to answer my comments!
        Get on with yourself, your not that important…I will just make corrections when necessary for those who want to be lead to factual information…

    • Correcting is not attacking!!! Read your Bible!!!

      • Using Bible is not attacking. Attacking is when you call people wolfs when the are not, calling people satan or of satan, calling people Liars, false prophets and ect. People that do such things , even in foolishness will answer for coming against God’s anointed. Before someone calls anyone anything, they should know what they are doing.

  • SCRIPTURE KJV, (What a shame I have to keep referring to the KJV, because of so many using modern perversions) God is not the author of confusion…2 Timothy 4:10-18…10For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia. 11Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with thee: for he is profitable to me for the ministry. 12And Tychicus have I sent to Ephesus. 13The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments. 14Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: 15Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.

    The Lord Remains Faithful

    16At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge. 17Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. 18And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen

  • I am not sure who was more stubborn Peter or Paul. As far as I remember from scripture Peter and Paul argued and Paul also told Mark to take a hike for a while and wouldn’t let Mark come with him on missions lol I think the problem was simple.

    While Peter gathered the boys to cast lots on who the 12th apostle was going to be after Judas the betrayer. Peter decided to gamble over Mathis and a few others were in the pot. LOL The Lord had to have laughed.

    Mean while when the Lord was done chuckling over Peters gambling session on earth.

    He scare the ever living you know what out of Paul who was currently on a crusade to persecute and kill followers of Jesus Christ. Anyways Paul after developing some instant fear of the Lord do to having direct contact with the source of all energy in this world and the next. Paul became the 12th apostle. Here in lays the problem.

    Paul was extremely knowledgeable in the old testament scriptures. More so then most other apostles. Having had an entirely different experience in getting saved then the other apostles did who walked with the Lord. Paul was very much like an old testament prophet who had a sudden and direct contact from the Lord in his other worldly appearance and power. Which is a much more dramatic effect the the rest of the apostles had.

    So Paul and his dramatic saving experience and his knowledge of old testament scriptures would come and correct the other apostles. Now you try correcting someone who walk personally for several years with Jesus Christ in person. LOL It created more then a few arguments to say the least. But Paul didn’t put up with know none sense. There was no in-between. Because of Paul’s knowledge of scripture and his dramatic experience he took every word very seriously. So some arguments took place. Bottom line they worked it all out.

    Thats the basic story.

    • Just Goes to show God can use just about any body He chooses.

      • yes from the streets to me amen I say!

        Hello to Brenda and blessings in the Lord to her.

        what do you all do on this wknd?

        • Brenda, said doing fine. She has been visiting family at her parents house just down the road a ways, I’ve been eating lemon meringue pie with coffee. I’m Very touchy today! So Brenda better not rub me wrong, Sister, I might get very angry at her for that. You see, I’ve got poison oak all over my upper body. It’s the worse I’ve ever had, LOL. Other than that I’m glad to be a child of God. Praise the Lord Jesus.

          • Good Morning, wow again you all amaze me, get on here this morning and everyone or some have jumped skins to portray another?? How will I keep up now 🙂 kidding of course, but what the heck? Wow so sorry on your itchy, we don’t have such out here, ouch but Lemon Pie???? That ought to have taken care of it right? Homeade? I haven’t eaten Pie except Holiday in yrs. But like Mrs Smith, she is the best baker for moi! Maybe they still do this there, but as kids the ‘treat’was to go have a piece of pie at the local café, or a BIG Cinnamon Roll. That was after Mom was done cooking on Ranches and had to go to city work! Have a Blessed day w the Lord!!

      • Amen brother.

  • From a friend, sending a little humor today

  • MATTHEW 10:11-15…
    11And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. 12And when ye come into an house, salute it. 13And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

    MATTHEW 15:16…
    16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

    Siging off, you will never see another post from me!

    Matthew 23:12…

    And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

    – King James Bible “Authorized Version”, Cambridge 1769 Edition

    • Amen Joseph. But remember this is the world wide web and others come and its an opportunity to spread truth.

      • Then let’s lead them to “THE TRUTH”.
        It’s also a opportunity to correct error!
        Are you of the “Emergent Church” persuasion like Rob Bell “LOVE WINS”?

      • John 14:6 Truth

        Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, unto the Father but by Me

        NIV No one gets to the Father but thru me

      • Amen!

    • From Joseph:
      “Siging off, you will never see another post from me!”


      By the way, it’s spelled “signing” not Siging”
      Just thought you should know.

    • @Joseph, I am a KJV person, very strong. But please explain the difference between the 1611 authorized and the 1769 Cambridge. I am not clear on that one. And where can one buy one? Please don’t yell at me, Thanks

      • Why would I yell at someone who is open to Truth….I would love to share with you the difference…Just goggle 1769 Cambridge Authorized King James Bible…I could share some other website info, but I am not comfortable with some of their beliefs…If you send me your e-mail address I would be happy to forward you more info on this topic… But like I have posted and how this whole debate got started was Raymond’s use of another man’s material without permission of the author… Go to http://www.wayoflife.org and search his (David Cloud’s) site…Use you discernment and compare it with what NTEB teachings…Geoff is not biblically qualified to do the teachings he does and his promotion of Peter Ruckman…Those are the things you are going to have to ask the Lord to reveal to you…I am settled on those issues…Thank you for your willingness to be taught truth…Joseph
        P.S. Do a search on David Cloud’s site for Peter Ruckman and Westcott/Hort…You will be amazed at what is known…Here is an article if space will allow;

        Beware of Peter Ruckman
        By Bro. David Cloud
        Way of Life Website
        Updated April 19, 2004 (first published via the Fundamental Baptist Information Service November 1994) – David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143. Send e-mail: fbns@wayoflife.org
        This material is also available in an enlarged 50-page booklet by the same title. See the online catalog at the Way of Life web site or call 866-295-4143.

        “What do you think about Peter Ruckman?”
        How many times I have been asked this question! For good or for bad, Peter Ruckman’s name is intertwined with the defense of the King James Bible. Personally, I think it is bad.
        On January 24, 1985, I wrote to Dr. Ruckman from my missionary work in South Asia and told him that I believed he had done more damage to the cause of the King James Bible than many of its detractors.
        “…your writings–because of the spirit in which they are given–actually make me desire to flee from whatever beliefs you are propounding. I sincerely fear … that you have done more damage to the cause of the truth of the preservation of the Textus Receptus and the faithful translations thereof than have the enemies of this position.”
        I know these words make even some of my friends cringe, but I still believe this. Why? Because his strange ideas, his multiple divorces, his angry spirit, his arrogance, his Alexandrian cult mentality, his extremism regarding the KJV being advanced revelation, and his bizarre private doctrines tends to cause men to reject the entire issue.
        Dr. Ruckman’s teaching has also caused many unnecessary divisions and problems in churches. It is one thing if a Christian tries to stand for the King James Bible and leaves a church that does not so stand, but it is quite another matter if a Christian becomes caught up in Ruckman’s peculiar doctrines and harsh spirit and comes to the conclusion that his church is apostate merely because it does not accept all of the jots and tittles of Ruckman’s thinking even though it is a church that does not use or defend the modern versions.
        An example of this occurred in my home church. Pastor Wilbert Unger of Bethel Baptist Church in London, Ontario, stands unhesitatingly for the King James Bible, but he does not swallow Ruckman’s peculiarities. To many Ruckman followers, though, if a man does not believe about the KJV exactly what Ruckman believes and does not accept the KJV as “advanced revelation” that can correct even the Greek and Hebrew from which it was translated and as the apex of Bible infallibility, he is “not a true Bible believer.” To believe that the KJV is an accurate translation of the preserved Word of God is not enough. A few years ago the printer for Bethel Baptist Church began reading some of Ruckman’s books and came to this conclusion. He felt that his church was not a true Bible-believing church and he began talking to some of the members, promoting Ruckman’s views, stirring up trouble. He finally left the church because of this and left a serious gap in the printing ministry which the Lord had led the church to start.
        This type of thing has happened many times over, oftentimes even resulting in church splits.
        Let me also say that all men who appreciate Peter Ruckman are not quarrelsome church splitters. I know several gracious Christian gentlemen who appreciate Dr. Ruckman. They appreciate the fact that the man stands boldly for an infallible Bible in a confused, wicked hour. They appreciate the fact that he has stirred up the pot and caused many to look at the Bible version issue. They are willing to overlook his problems.
        While I have no personal quarrel with any man who takes such a position, the bottom line for me is this: I don’t believe an extreme position on an issue is a blessing to that issue, and I don’t believe a mean-spirited defense of the truth furthers the truth.
        For the record, I want to list the Ruckmanisms that I reject and the reasons why I believe that the man is dangerous.
        In The Christian’s Handbook of Biblical Scholarship, pp. 271-272, Ruckman claims: “The King James Bible was ‘given by inspiration of God.’”
        I believe the King James Bible, as an accurate translation of the preserved Word of God, IS therefore the inspired Word of God. I can hold it up and say “this is the inspired Word of God.” I can say that about any accurate translation of the Scriptures from the right Hebrew and Greek texts into any language.
        But I don’t believe the King James Bible was GIVEN BY inspiration of God. I don’t believe the KJV is GIVEN BY inspiration in the way that the original writings of Scripture were. I believe it has DERIVED its inspiration from the text upon which it was based. The King James Bible is an accurate and beautiful translation of the preserved Scriptures and as such is the inspired Word of God–inspired only derivatively, not directly.
        I don’t believe this is merely a semantics game; it is an important distinction. The King James Bible is an accurate translation of the preserved Word of God and as such is the preserved Word of God. It is no more than that, and it is no less than that. The King James Version is the inspired Word of God because it accurately translates the text that was given by inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
        God chose Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic, and I’m not going to say that God made a mistake and that we had to wait until the 17th century before we could have the penultimate Word of God and that English has now superceded everything that came before. The KJV is a wonderful translation, but IT IS a translation. Some would charge that to say such a thing detracts from the KJV. No, the truth never detracts from anything. We want to honor first that which God has honored, and that is the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures. We honor translations but only in a secondary sense.
        To make myself perfectly clear, let me also say that I believe the KJV is superior to all other English versions–superior in its textual basis, superior in its method of translation, superior in the scholarship of its translators, superior in the time of its translation. BUT THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS SAYING THE KING JAMES BIBLE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OR THAT IT IS SOME SORT OF ADVANCED REVELATION.
        The key New Testament passage on the inspiration of Scripture is 2 Timothy 3:15-17. Verse 16 says, “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God…” This refers to the original giving of the Word of God. Inspiration does not refer to the process of transcribing or translating the Bible, but to the process whereby God gave the right words to the men who wrote the Bible.
        This process of inspiration is also described in 2 Peter 1:20-21: “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” This passage does not describe either the copying of Scripture texts or the making of translations.
        It is the doctrine of preservation, then, that guarantees that the God would watch over the inspired Scriptures to preserve them for future generations (Psalm 12:6-7;
        Psalm 100:5; Matthew 5:18, etc.). This is the process whereby God preserved the Hebrew and Greek texts and watched over translations such as the German Luther and the English King James Bible.
        The KJV translators had good reason for every reading they included in their translation, and some of those readings are based more on ancient versions than on Greek texts. There are three major witnesses which sound textual scholars and translators use to determine the correct text, and those are the Greek manuscripts, the ancient versions, and the ancient lectionaries. The translators of the King James Bible looked at all three of these witnesses.
        This, of course, does not add up to advanced revelation. I believe the KJV translators were God-guided, but the KJV readings were not pulled out of thin air. The readings were not “given by inspiration” of God. The readings were all based upon existing textual witnesses from centuries past.
        Peter Ruckman, on the other hand, SAYS he believes the KJV is advanced revelation. Consider:
        “The A.V. 1611 reading, here, is superior to any Greek text” (Peter Ruckman, The Christian’s Handbook of Manuscript Evidence, Pensacola Bible Press, 1970, p. 118).
        “Mistakes in the A.V. 1611 are advanced revelation!” (Ruckman, Manuscript Evidence, p. 126).
        “A short handbook, such as this, will not permit an exhaustive account of the marvelous undesigned ‘coincidences’ which have slipped through the A.V. 1611 committees, unawares to them, and which give advanced light, and advanced revelation beyond the investigation of the greatest Bible students 300 year later” (Ruckman, Manuscript Evidence, p. 127).
        “A little English will clear up the obscurities in any Greek text” (Ruckman, Manuscript Evidence, p. 147).
        “If all you have is the ‘original Greek,’ you lose light” (Ruckman, Manuscript Evidence, p. 336).
        “If you are able to obtain a copy [of Ruckman’s proposed new book] you will have, in your hands, a minimum of 200 advanced revelations that came from the inerrant English text, that were completely overlooked (or ignored) by every major Christian scholar since 90 A.D.” (Bible Believers’ Bulletin, Jan. 1994, pp. 2,4).
        “We shall deal with the English Text of the Protestant Reformation, and our references to Greek or Hebrew will only be made to enforce the authority of that text or to demonstrate the superiority of that text to Greek and Hebrew.” (Peter Ruckman, Problem Texts, Preface, Pensacola Bible Institute Press, 1980, p. vii).
        “We candidly and publicly confess that the King James text of the Old Testament (Authorized Version) is far superior to Kittel’s Hebrew text, Derossi’s Hebrew text, Kennicott’s Hebrew text or any Hebrew text that any of you are reading. We do not hesitate to state bluntly and openly that the King James text for the New Testament (Authorized Version) is superior to Erasmus’ Greek text, Aland’s Greek text, Metzger’s Greek text and any other that you are reading (or will read in the future)” (Ruckman, Problem Texts, page xii). [Brother Cloud: You see that Ruckman treats the Greek Received Text with the same lightness as he does the modern critical text.]
        “If you had the original manuscripts, you couldn’t find what a soul was, no matter how educated you were, because the key for ‘finding out’ had nothing to do with the Hebrew or Greek” (Ruckman, Problem Texts, p. 145).
        “Observe how accurately and beautifully the infallible English text straightens out Erasmus, Griesbach, Beza, Nestle, Aland, Metzger, Trench, Vincent, Davis, Wuest, Zodhiates, Elzevir, and Stephanus with the poise and grace of a swan as it smoothly and effectively breaks your arm with one flap of its wings. Beautiful, isn’t it? If the mood or tense isn’t right in any Greek text, the King James Bible will straighten it out in a hurry” (Ruckman, Problem Texts, pp. 348, 349). [Editor: Why does Ruckman put critical, modernistic textual editors Nestle, Aland, and Metzger on the same level with Beza, Elzevir, and Stephanus who honored the Word of God and handed down to us the Text Received from the Apostles?]
        “The original Hebrew had nothing to do with Genesis 1:1-3 at all [referring to Ruckman’s unique idea that the flood of 2 Peter 3:5-6 speaks of a flood that took place in Genesis 1:2]. It only muddied the issue. Hebrew is of no help at all in understanding the passage” (Peter Ruckman, The Unknown Bible, Bible Baptist Bookstore, 1984, p. 67).
        “The King James test is the last and final statement that God has given to the world, and He has given it in the universal language of the 20th century … The truth is that GOD SLAMMED THE DOOR OF REVELATION SHUT IN 389 BC AND SLAMMED IT SHUT AGAIN IN 1611” (Peter Ruckman, The Monarch of Books, Pensacola, 1973, p. 9). [Brother Cloud: In fact, God slammed the door of revelation shut in about 90 A.D. with the completion of the New Testament.]
        While I believe the Authorized Version is an accurate translation of the preserved Word of God, I reject Ruckman’s contention that the Authorized Version is superior to the Hebrew and Greek from which it was translated, or that God only slammed shut the door of revelation in 1611, or that the English straightens out the Greek, or that the Authorized Version contains advanced revelation.
        If Ruckman is right, where was the inspired Word of God prior to 1611? What did the churches do from the time of the apostles until the 17th century? And what did they do before Ruckman came upon the scene to create this doctrine, because it is certain that no one taught it at an earlier date?
        I know the man enjoys speaking for effect, saying things simply to shake people up, but words mean something. If a man puts something into print repeatedly, year after year, and sends those books out across the land, we are not wrong to take him seriously and to base our judgment of his ministry upon those books.
        To put the critical Greek texts on the same level with the Received Text and to discount every Hebrew and Greek text, as Ruckman does when arguing for the superiority of the Authorized Version, is wrong.
        God chose to inspire His Book in the Hebrew and Greek languages, and I am satisfied that He knew what He was doing. I’m not going to say that the English language has become a better vehicle for God’s Revelation. English is an excellent vehicle but not a better vehicle. Do you see the difference, my friend? I believe it is an important one.
        Let me hasten to say that I DO believe God had his hand upon the translation of the KJV in a marvelous way. I DO NOT believe there are any real mistakes in the King James Bible. (By this I mean that the alleged mistakes are not real.) The King James Bible has played a crucial role in the preservation of the Word of God in the last four centuries because of the importance of the English language. God gave the English-speaking people an accurate translation. I do believe there are places which could be translated more clearly. I do believe there are antiquated words which could be brought up to date. (To say, though, there are changes which could be made in the KJV is entirely different from saying there are changes which must be made, or that it contains mistakes. To say that there are passages which could be translated differently is not the same as saying there are passages which contain error.)
        The point here, though, pertains to whether or not the KJV is advanced revelation. Revelation means a revealing of something that was not previously known by man and can only be discovered by the divine hand. The KJV IS NOT ADVANCED REVELATION.
        Consider what Ruckman believes:
        “…every ‘recognized’ church historian and Christian ‘scholar’ is a member of a CULT. This cult is the Alexandrian Cult of North Africa, and its tentacles stretch from Origen (184-254 A.D.) to John R. Rice and the faculty members of every ‘recognized’ Christian school in the world” (Peter Ruckman, The Alexandrian Cult, Part One, 1978, p. 6).
        I believe Evangelist John R. Rice was wrong about the Bible version issue, but I do not believe he was a cultist. I believe that my teachers at Tennessee Temple were wrong not to instruct me properly in regard to Bible texts and versions, but I don’t believe they are cultists. I’m not going to put them in the same lot with the pope, as Dr. Ruckman does.
        Second Thessalonians 3:14-15 says that while we are not to overlook a brother’s sin or error, and while we are to separate from him if he persists in it, we are NOT to count him as an enemy, but to admonish him as a brother. Mr. Ruckman counts everyone as an enemy who does not adhere to the jots and tittles of Ruckmanism.
        Ruckman lumps together and lambastes with equal harshness the fundamental Baptist who supports the modern versions with the fundamental Baptist who rejects the modern versions–so long as both reject Ruckmanism. In the February 1989 issue of the Bible Believers’ Bulletin, Ruckman says:
        “The polemics in the publications by Donald Waite and Robert Sumner are dedicated to that proposition, and pretense that they are protecting you from heresy is just so much hot air in a wind bag” (p. 6).
        “No apostate Fundamentalist (Duncan, Hudson, Afman, Martin, Price, Newman, MacRae, Waite, Sumner, Kutilek, etc.) ever believed what the scriptures said about the scriptures. … Doug Kutilek, Robert Sumner, Ronald Walker, Donald Waite, Gary Hudson, Fred Afman, etc. … They go right on with their nonsense” (p. 4).
        Most of these men are avid defenders of the modern critical Greek text. Note, though, that Ruckman lumps Dr. Donald Waite into this group as if there were no difference in his position on the Bible and that of the others. Waite is a staunch defender of the King James Bible. His book Defending the King James Bible presents “the four-fold superiority of the KJV”: Superior texts, superior translators, superior technique, and superior theology. Dr. Waite is so strong in his defense of the King James Bible that he has often been mis-labeled a Ruckmanite!
        Why, then, does Mr. Ruckman consider all of these men equally to be members of “the Alexandrian cult”?
        Ruckman does not consider Dr. Waite a true Bible believer for the simple fact that Dr. Waite rejects Ruckmanism.
        Dr. Peter Ruckman has been divorced two times and married three times yet he has been a pastor all along and he defends his unscriptural marital status in his book on divorce and remarriage.
        His first marriage was before his salvation, and it ended in 1962 when his wife left him and filed for divorce. He began pastoring the Brent Baptist Church in Pensacola, Florida, soon after that.
        In 1972 Ruckman married the divorced wife of one of his former students. When a vote was taken in Brent Baptist as to whether they supported his second marriage, 200 voted for it and 100 opposed it.
        He resigned and started the Bible Baptist Church in Pensacola in 1974 with 17 people.
        In 1988 the second marriage ended when his second wife walked out and sued for divorce.
        Ruckman’s third marriage was to a member of his church, a mother of three.
        I have read Dr. Ruckman’s autobiography in which he goes into this situation in some detail. My heart went out to him as I read about the tremendous confusion which existed in his family life for 32 years. He admits his role in the marital strife. Of course he didn’t have to take the second marriage, or the third. He claims the first and second marriages were God’s foreordained judgment on him (Ruckman calls God “the Bookkeeper” throughout his testimony).
        I don’t care to doubt that God called Peter Ruckman to preach, and I believe a divorced man can preach and serve God in many ways without being a pastor. But he should not be, and is not qualified to be, a pastor. That’s not Phariseeism; that is King James Bible. Paul’s epistle to Titus connects the term “blameless” with the pastor’s family life (Titus 1:6), because the pastorate is a very special position. The pastor is he highest position in the house of God, which is the church. I don’t believe there is a higher calling in the world today. Not only is the pastor to be a teacher and a preacher and a soul winner; he is to be an example of the will of God. “Neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock” (1 Peter 5:3). If the pastor’s family is not right, whose will be? If the pastor’s family is not right, where will the church be?
        The pastor must meet qualifications which are not required for any other Christian. It’s a special position.
        The Bible says that a pastor must be “one that ruleth well his own house”
        (1 Timothy 3:4,5). Regardless of whose fault the divorce is, there can be no question that it does NOT represent an exemplary family life. Regardless of whose fault the divorce is, there can be no doubt that the man involved is NOT ruling well his own house. Regardless of whose fault the divorce is, there can be no doubt that it is a handle the devil will use to cast blame upon the church and the work of God.
        Divorces do not take place in a vacuum. They take place in an environment filled with anger, carnality, hostility, bitterness, and sin. That is not judgmentalism; it is fact. Some of my godly divorced friends confess this as strongly as I do.
        Consider how Dr. Ruckman himself describes his family life in days gone by:
        “I have had two wives desert me after fifteen years of marriage … I have been in court custody cases, where seven children’s futures were held in the balance; in situations where Gospel articles were being torn out of typewriters, Biblical artwork torn off the easels, women trying to throw themselves out of cars at fifty m.p.h., mailing wedding rings back in the middle of revival services, cutting their wrists, threatening to leave if I did not give my church to their kinfolk; deacons threatening to burn down my house and beat me up; children in split custody between two domiciles two hundred miles apart, and knock-down, drag-out arguments in the home sometimes running as long as three days” (The Last Grenade, p. 339).
        That is what the man admits took place. That is only a small glimpse into the sin and confusion surrounding those years. Friends, you can label me a judge if you want, but a man with that type of family life has no business in the pastorate. Let him preach on the streets. Let him preach in the jails. Let him preach in the nursing homes. Let him preach in other ways, but we must obey the Bible and reserve the pastorate for men who have godly homes.
        Did I hear someone say that nobody is perfect? That is correct, but there are many men who, by God’s grace, have godly homes.
        If God were not going to take the standards of 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 seriously, why did He give them? And if God is going to take them seriously, who are we to slight them?
        Dr. Ruckman often mocks those who call for high standards for the pastorate and who don’t believe a divorced man fits God’s requirements for the office. Those who take this position he calls hypocrites and Pharisees.
        Consider how he describes his third marriage:
        “… we got married in a regular Sunday night service after the offering was taken up: bridesmaids, wedding cake, rice, shaving cream on the car, the whole works. Standing room only. I WAS FLAUNTING MY FAITH IN THE FACE OF THE APOSTATE FUNDAMENTALISTS WHO WERE GOING TO ‘CASH IN’ ON MY MARRIAGE” (Peter Ruckman, The Full Cup, p. 280).
        On page 211 of his biography, Dr. Ruckman says that those who ask the question, “Do you think a divorced preacher is qualified for the ministry,” are “SELF-RIGHTEOUS PHARISEES.”
        This mocking, ungodly attitude has encouraged other men that it’s O.K. to be divorced and remain in the pastorate and even to flaunt the same before anyone who disagrees. Yes, sadly, many have followed Ruckman’s lead.
        Dr. Ruckman believes men were saved by blood plus works in the Old Testament, that they will be saved by faith plus works in the Tribulation, and by works alone in the Millennium.
        In his booklet Millions Disappear: Fact or Fiction? Ruckman says: “If the Lord comes and you remain behind, then start working like a madman to get to heaven, because you’re going to have to. … You must keep the Ten Commandments (all of them, Ecclesiastes 12:13), keep the Golden Rule (1 John 3:10), give your money to the poor, get baptized, take up your cross, hold out to the end of the Tribulation, wait for Jesus Christ to show up at the Battle of Armageddon, and be prepared to die for what you believe. In the Tribulation you cannot be saved by grace alone, like you could before the Rapture.”
        My friends, Romans 4 says both Abraham before the law, and David after the law, were saved by faith without works. This is the only plan of salvation God ever has had and ever will have–salvation by grace alone through faith alone based upon the shed blood of Jesus Christ alone. The Old Testament saints did not know what the New Testament saint knows, but Romans 4 makes it plain that the Old Testament saints were saved by faith without works. Like Abraham, they believed God and it was counted to them for righteousness.
        Those who are saved in the Tribulation will be saved through the blood of Jesus Christ and through His blood alone. “These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb” (Revelation 7:14).
        See the articles “Salvation Is the Same in the Old Testament and the New Testament” by Bruce Lackey and “Salvation in the O.T. and the N.T. Follow-up.” These are available at the Way of Life Literature web site — “Salvation Is the Same in the Old Testament and the New Testament” by Bruce Lackey and “Salvation in the O.T. and the N.T. Follow-up.”. They are also available in the booklet What About Ruckman? which can be obtained from Way of Life Literature.
        Some of the choice names Ruckman calls men who disagree with him are “jackass,” “poor, dumb, stupid ‘red legs,’” “silly asses,” “apostolic succession of bloated egotists,” “two-bit junkies,” “two-faced, tin-horned punks,” “incredible idiots,” “egotistical jack legs,” “conservative asses whose brains have gone to seed,” “cheap, two-bit punks,” and “stupid, little, Bible-rejecting apostates.”
        Dr. Ruckman can get pretty vulgar. He calls the New American Standard Version “more of the same old godless, depraved crap” (Satan’s Masterpiece–the New ASV, p. 67). In The Unknown Bible, p. 100, Ruckman says, “You see how people get all screwed up?”
        Ruckman believes it is God who has called him to speak like this:
        “God called me to sit at this typewriter and pour forth VINEGAR, ACID, VITRIOL, AND CLEANING FLUID on the leading conservative and fundamental scholars of 1900 through 1990. … God is in charge. He … destines me to sit at this typewriter and LAMBAST, SCALD AND RIDICULE these Bible rejecting fundamentalists who ‘believe the Bible is the Word of God,’ … I hereby dedicate myself anew to the task of DESTRUCTIVE CRITICISM AND NEGATIVE BLASTING against every adversary of that Holy Book…” (The Bible Believers Bulletin, Dec. 1985).
        Ruckman is fighting for a holy Book in an unholy manner. It is confusion.
        I know what Jesus called the Pharisees in Matthew 23. I have read how Paul, filled with the Spirit, spoke severely of the false teacher in Acts 13:9-10. I know the severe plainness with which the Spirit of God speaks of false teachers in passages such as
        2 Peter 2 and Jude.
        But there is a world of difference between the language used in the Bible and the language used by Peter Ruckman. There is a world of difference between the spirit of a Peter and a Paul or a Jude and the spirit of Peter Ruckman.
        There is also a distinct difference between the way the Spirit of God deals with a saved but erring man and an unregenerate corrupter of the gospel. There is a vast difference between the way the Lord Jesus Christ dealt with His own disciples and the way He dealt with the Pharisees. The same distinction is evident in the way that Paul dealt with Peter’s hypocrisy in Galatians 2, and the way he dealt with the unsaved false teacher in Acts 13.
        Yet Mr. Ruckman makes no difference between the Pope, a theological Christ-denying Modernist, or an erring fundamental Baptist brother in Christ. He will a man such as Curtis Hutson together with John Paul II and Karl Barth.
        Ruckman’s spirit and language is not that of the Bible. James 3:13-17 says:
        “Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works WITH MEEKNESS OF WISDOM. But if ye have BITTER ENVYING AND STRIFE in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. But the wisdom that is from above is first PURE, then PEACEABLE, GENTLE, AND EASY TO BE INTREATED, FULL OF MERCY AND GOOD FRUITS, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.”
        My friends, this passage from the King James Bible condemns Ruckmanism. This passage from the King James Bible tells me that Ruckman’s spirit is earthly, sensual, and devilish. Enjoying Ruckman because he “gets after those Bible perverters” is the same carnal spirit as enjoying a good dog fight when the dog you have betted on is the biggest, meanest one around. “Sic ‘em, Pete, sic ‘em!” It is entertaining, and it is immensely satisfying to the flesh, but God says bitter envying and strife is earthly, sensual, devilish. God says heavenly wisdom is peaceable, gentle and full of mercy.
        Some will protest, “But Ruckman is only striving with and showing bitterness toward the enemies of the Bible.”
        The Holy Spirit gave instructions in 2 Timothy 2:24-26 on how to deal with those who oppose the truth. He said nothing about pouring vitriol and acid on them!
        “And the servant of the Lord MUST NOT STRIVE: BUT BE GENTLE UNTO ALL MEN, apt to teach, PATIENT, IN MEEKNESS instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
        When I wrote to Ruckman in 1985 and told him these things, he wrote back and said that I don’t understand the battle. Dr. Ruckman claims that those who reject his attitude and language are pacifists who don’t know the heat of the battle.
        That is a smokescreen. By the time that Ruckman charged me with not understanding “the battle,” I had lived for six years and preached the gospel and planted a church in a land which was strictly and officially opposed to the gospel. We lived constantly with the fear that we could be arrested. Not only was Nepal one of the strangest, poorest, and most difficult lands to live in, but it was a Hindu state and Christianity was outlawed. Further, I was standing practically alone in that entire part of the world for the preserved Bible and for fundamentalist Baptist doctrine. My literature made me more visible than otherwise would have been the case. Our magazines and books went out across most of South Asia. I was slandered; labeled a cult leader; lied about; mocked. I was brought to trial by a group of Christian leaders in Nepal (including the head of Campus Crusade for Christ in Nepal, the pastor of the Assemblies of God in Kathmandu, the head of Youth for Christ in Nepal, and the head of the Bible Society of Nepal) and was told to leave because I was said to be “the greatest hindrance to the cause of Christ in Nepal.” They said I was dividing “the body of Christ in Nepal.” The Bible Society man claimed that I was resisting God because I had taken a stand against the Nepali equivalent of the Today’s English Version (Good News for Modern Man). The Roman Catholic Jesuit priests had meetings about me and took steps to hinder my ministry.
        The battle was hot then and it is hot today and I know something about it, but the Lord’s battles must be fought with the Lord’s weapons, not with fleshly ones.
        In The Unknown Bible, Ruckman claims to hold to 14 “biblical truths” which other Bible teachers have overlooked for 2,000 years. I am reminded of the truism that “if it is new it is not true, and if it is true it is not new.”
        These long-overlooked “biblical truths” include the following:
        1. Angels are thirty-three year old males without wings; and all woman in the Church Age will receive thirty-three year old male bodies at the Rapture. …
        2. The plan of salvation for Tribulation saints is faith plus works and the plan of salvation in the Millennium is works alone.
        3. When the believer is born again, his soul is literally cut loose from the inside of his fleshly body. (Ruckman takes spiritual circumcision very literally!)
        4. Demons re winged creatures ranging in size from those of flies and mosquitoes to eagles and vultures.
        5. Sexual unions constitute marriage in God’s sight.
        On page 347 of The Unknown Bible, Ruckman modestly claims: “Do you realize that in these last two chapters, you have learned a dozen things that were unknown to the greatest Bible teachers in the world? In 2000 years of church history, they haven’t even been able to find the passage which dealt with these things we have been talking about.”
        Dr. Ruckman also claims that his view of man’s soul is brand new truth:
        “The problem is the word ‘soul,’ but since there isn’t one pre-millennial, soul-winning, fundamentalist who knows what a soul is (see the entire library of books published by Eerdmans, Baker, Zondervan, and the Sword of the Lord before 1970) … The soul in the Bible is an invisible BODILY SHAPE. In the Old Testament, the soul is almost synonymous with the body, for it is STUCK TO IT till death” (Ruckman, Problem Texts, p. 145).
        Ruckman believes that the flood mentioned in 2 Peter 3 is not Noah’s flood but is one which supposedly occurred at the judgment of the earth, when Satan was cast out of Heaven. He admits that no other Bible teacher has held this view:
        “Now who could get a message so simple all muddled up? Answer: Every major fundamental Bible scholar and teacher in the United States, without one exception. If you were to ask Henry Morris what the verses refer to he’d say Noah’s flood: ditto Harry Rimmer, Clarence Larkin, J. Vernon McGee, Swindle (sic), MacArthur, Bob Jones III … the Scofield Board of Editors” (Ruckman, The Unknown Bible, p. 67).
        In bragging up his new book The Salient Verses, Mr. Ruckman makes these comments:
        “If you are able to obtain a copy [of Ruckman’s proposed new book] you will have, in your hands, a minimum of 200 advanced revelations that came from the inerrant English text, that were completely overlooked (or ignored) by every major Christian scholar since 90 A.D. This would include all of the modern Bible revisors (1800-1999), all of the faculty members and staffs of every major “Fundamental” (Conservative and Evangelical) seminary, university, and college in Europe and America since 1500, and every Greek and Hebrew scholar (or teacher) since 1611. … Actually, if a Bible believer has this work he will have the accumulated knowledge of Cornelius Stam and Ethelbert Bullinger … Clarence Larkin and C.I. Scofield Ewing, Osborne, Tilton, and PTL … Pember, Peters, Gaebelein, Pentecost, Lindsey, Kirban, Rockwood, Webber, and Van Impe … plus the Puritans, Reformers, major evangelists (Moody, Sunday, Finney, Torrey, Wesley, etc.) and all that ANY Greek and Hebrew scholar … ever found out–that was SO–in the last 200 years” (Bible Believers’ Bulletin, Jan. 1994, pp. 2,4).
        This is a proud, cultish mindset.
        Consider a few of the other peculiar teachings held by Dr. Ruckman:
        “God has ordained on this earth 12 boundaries, with 12 nations, who are destined to leave this earth (transported by angels– Luke 16:22), and populate outer space infinitely and forever, beginning with the 12 constellations that are seen on the earth once every 12 months” (The Unknown Bible, p. 588).
        “In eternity, THE CHRISTIAN IS IN NEW JERUSALEM; he is in his apartment house that is made out of transparent gold, like clear glass. … He is called out on trips, and these trips take him to Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Saturn, Uranus, etc. transporting couples into gardens placing them down and saying, ‘be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth’“ (Ibid., p. 592).
        “I KNOW THEY [DEMONS] HAVE TO BE SMALL. … there’s two little animals that have wings. One’s a fly and the other’s a mosquito. Know what these things are? They’re pictures of demons. all commentaries, and all theologians, they’re winged. THE THINGS HAVE WINGS” (Ruckman, Demons and Christians, Bible Baptist Bookstore, 1976, side 1).
        Some Ruckmanites have challenged me to refute the Ruckman doctrines we have cited. I don’t have to refute them; they are self refuting for the simple fact that they have no biblical authority, just as Rome’s dogmas of purgatory and the papacy are self refuting. Why should we have to refute nonsense? The Bible instructs us to avoid the foolish and unlearned questions of heretics (2 Timothy 2:23; Titus 3:9-11), and Ruckman’s new doctrines certainly fall into this category.
        I really don’t understand why men believe it is so necessary to read after Dr. Ruckman to understand the Bible version issue. There are a multiplicity of good materials available on Bible versions by men such as Donald Waite, David Otis Fuller, Edward F. Hills, Bruce Lackey, Terence Brown, and Jack Moorman. I came to a Bible-believing position through the writings of such men without any help from Dr. Ruckman, and I recommend their writings to our readers. Their writings are not filled with bitter wrangling, hateful sarcasm, and fanaticism. The fruit of reading after such men is peace and settled confidence and zeal for the Truth, not a fleshly bitterness against the members of a supposed cult.
        In conclusion, let me say that while I have some serious problems with Dr. Ruckman, I also have some serious problems with many of his detractors. Many of Peter Ruckman’s most bitter enemies are trying to discredit the idea that there is a authoritative Bible anywhere in the world. They have their own rotten agenda, undermining men’s faith in a preserved Bible and attempting to pollute their minds with the unscriptural, convoluted theories of modern textual criticism.
        “Who, then, can we trust?” some might be thinking? The Word of God says, “Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm … Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is” (Jeremiah 17:5,7).
        Man is defiled even at his best. Our confidence must be in Jesus Christ and in His eternal Word, and let no man shake your confidence in That.
        For follow-up articles on Peter Ruckman see:
        “Divorce and Remarriage and God’s Standards for the Pastor,” O Timothy, Volume 12, Issue 5, 1995
        “The Divorced Pastor,” O Timothy, Volume 10, Issue 10, 1993
        “Ruckman’s Perfect Bible,” O Timothy, Volume 12, Issue 4, 1995
        “Ruckman’s Slanderous Mouth,” O Timothy, Volume 12, Issue 4, 1995 “Peter Ruckman’s Speech” by D.W. Cloud
        “Response to the Ruckman Critique,” O Timothy, Volume 12, Issue 1, 1995
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        • Stop censoring my comments NTEB Moderator!

          • “Stop censoring my comments NTEB Moderator!”

            Once again Joseph is complaining.
            You should start your own website.

            By the way, you promised to leave the website
            so why are yo still here? You lied Joseph.

          • Does that make us brothers?

            I thought you had so much going on in your life, not to reply to Marie’s e-mail…Seems like sitting at your computer all day is not much of a life?

          • 🙁

          • Article: Burning Man Draws 68,00 to America’s Largest
            Pagan Cult Gathering.

            Date: September 01, 2013

            Comment (#384) made by Joseph:

            Siging off, you will never see another post from me!


            Joseph lied because he is still posting on this site.
            Can liars be trusted? Nope…


          • Mat_18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

          • @Raymond, Be careful. I think Joseph is someone who is already on this site. You were gaining to much attention with your truthful post, regardless of who authored it. Evil is on this site.

          • Hi Tracy good to see you , my smily is below but that’s between me and another if it looks like for here! Yeterday was so ugly, thank the Lord for today, but its starting the same. All Christians I have been surrounded w my whole life{varies as to the church will say in doctrine} but they love on ea other, go fishing, motorcycling, car races, rodeos, pot lucks, whatever in life, but somehow manage to control their emotions.
            You ask why am I still here? God knows I do not! Have a wonderful day w the Lord,

          • Amen Sister God Know and sees it all. Each and every single thing is recorded in the book in heaven, Judgment is coming, I pray we all fare well on that day. Many worksa will go in flames as we look upon them burn, with regret. I have but just this to add to the pot, I hope it’s taken in Love. God bless all.


          • Absolutely!

          • @Teresa B., No problem about the smiley.
            Sorry about the attacks, I hate them too. I skip-over certain comments.
            Blessings to You.

          • Hi Tracy,
            I’m beginning to think the same thing about “Joseph.”

          • Hi Raymond,
            Would you please read my post #359 (Approximately) It is my response to Joseph’s quoting Romans 12:19
            (A very good verse) Love you Brother.

            Are you a marine?
            The Lord spoke something into my life about our men and women of the armed forces about a year ago. I was doing the same thing I do every Saturday morning. Driving to Planned Parenthood to pray. (An abortion day) A verse was burning in my heart and I was meditating on it. “For behold in those days and at that time when I bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem. I will also gather ALL nations and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat (Armageddon) And I will enter into judgment with them there on account of My people, My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations: they have also divided up My lands.” Joel 3:1-2 (Reads like todays paper doesnt it?) Anyway the words of the prophet Joel were bearing down on me and I felt the Lord was telling me that ALL nations MEANS all Nations (Including our own) would be gathered at Armageddon and soon. I determined that from now on I will Pray for our service men and women and urge others to also Pray for Spiritual revival among our service men and women. That they will not go into that theater unprepared to die. We know what will happen there. I then got to I-25 and found myself right in the middle of the biggest convoy of troop carriers I have ever seen. I passed one after another. In each one I would wave and they would all smile and wave back. Tears were flowing as I said “Lord, they are all so young and so friendly.”
            Raymond we serve a Strange, Mysterious and Magnificent God. He delights to make Himself known to those who love Him and whos hearts are loyal to Him.
            I urge you to be a shining light to these wonderful men and women in uniform. Dont be ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
            Be a man of prayer. John Owen said “What a man is, alone, on bended knee, in secret prayer before Almighty God is what a man is and nothing more.”
            Leonard Ravenhill said “People ask “Where is the God of Elijah? He is enthroned now as He was then! They are asking the wrong question. They should be asking “Where are the Elijahs of God?”

          • God Bless you Joseph, I believe you are a man of God. He sees your work , Brother. Be not discouraged, Brother.

        • @Joseph about that bible…zipmegolden@yahoo.com put in the line Cambridge bible then I will know it is you. thanks

      • Suez…NTEB is blocking the article I want to send you so if you are open to forwarding me your e-mail I would be happy to forward…Why would I yell at someone who is open to Truth….I would love to share with you the difference…Just goggle 1769 Cambridge Authorized King James Bible…I could share some other website info, but I am not comfortable with some of their beliefs…If you send me your e-mail address I would be happy to forward you more info on this topic… But like I have posted and how this whole debate got started was Raymond’s use of another man’s material without permission of the author… Go to http://www.wayoflife.org and search his (David Cloud’s) site…Use you discernment and compare it with what NTEB teachings…Geoff is not biblically qualified to do the teachings he does and his promotion of Peter Ruckman…Those are the things you are going to have to ask the Lord to reveal to you…I am settled on those issues…Thank you for your willingness to be taught truth…Joseph
        P.S. Do a search on David Cloud’s site for Peter Ruckman and Westcott/Hort…You will be amazed at what is known…Here is an article if space will allow;

        • 4 Ways the King James Bible is Superior.


        • Westcott and Hort

          Brooke Foss Westcott (1825-1903) and Fenton John Anthony Hort (1828-1892) have been highly controversial figures in biblical history.

          On one side, their supporters have heralded them as great men of God, having greatly advanced the search for the original Greek text.

          On the other side, their opponents have leveled charges of heresy, infidelity, apostasy, and many others, claiming that they are guilty of wreaking great damage on the true text of Scripture.

          I have no desire to “sling mud” nor a desire to hide facts.

          I believe it is essential at this time that we examine what we know about these men and their theories concerning the text of the Bible.

          I long sought for copies of the books about their lives. These are The Life and Letters of Brooke Foss Westeott, by his son, Arthur, and The Life and Letters of Fenton John Anthony Hort, written by his son.

          After literally months of trying, I was able to acquire copies of them both for study. Most of the material in this section will be directly from these sources so as to prevent it from being secondhand.

          We cannot blindly accept the finding of any scholar without investigating what his beliefs are concerning the Bible and its doctrines. Scholarship alone makes for an inadequate and dangerous authority, therefore we are forced to scrutinize these men’s lives.

          A Monumental Switch

          Westcott and Hort were responsible for the greatest feat in textual criticism. They were responsible for replacing the Universal Text of the Authorized Version with the Local Text of Egypt and the Roman Catholic Church. Both Wescott and Hort were known to have resented the pre-eminence given to the Authorized Version and its underlying Greek Text. They had been deceived into believing that the Roman Catholic manuscripts, Vaticanus and Aleph, were better because they were “older.” This they believed, even though Hort admitted that the Antiochian or Universal Text was equal in antiquity. “The fundamental text of the late extant Greek MSS generally is beyond all question identical with the dominant Antiochian or Graeco-Syrian Text of the second half of the Fourth Century.”85

          Vicious Prejudice

          In spite of the fact that the readings of the Universal Text were found to be as old, or older, Westcott and Hort still sought to dislodge it from its place of high standing in biblical history. Hort occasionally let his emotions show, “I had no idea till the last few weeks of the importance of text, having read so little Greek Testament, and dragged on with the villainous Textus Receptus … Think of the vile Textus Receptus leaning entirely on late MSS; it is a blessing there are such early ones.”86

          Westcott and Hort built their own Greek text based primarily on a few uncial MSS of the Local Text. It has been stated earlier that these perverted MSS do not even agree among themselves. The ironic thing is that Westcott and Hort knew this when they formed their text!

          Burgon exposed Dr. Hort’s confession, “Even Hort had occasion to notice an instance of the concordia discourse.” Commenting on the four places in Mark’s gospel (14:30, 68, 72, a, b) where the cock’s crowing is mentioned said, “The confusion of attestation introduced by these several cross currents of change is so great that of the seven principal MSS, Aleph, A, B, C, D, L, no two have the same text in all four places.”87

          A Shocking Revelation

          That these men should lend their influence to a family of MSS which have a history of attacking and diluting the major doctrines of the Bible, should not come as a surprise. Oddly enough, neither man believed that the Bible should be treated any differently than the writings of the lost histor-ians and philosophers!

          To continue reading and learning click on the following link.


      • Visit chick.com
        and click on “Bible Versions”

      • Scripture Preservation
        Are the Scriptures just the “ideas” of God, or are they the very WORDS of God? You decide!

        God promises to preserve His words…..
        The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth,
        purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them
        from this generation for ever. (Psalms 12:6-7)

        You shall not addor take away, says God…..
        Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the
        judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live,
        and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your
        fathers giveth you. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you,
        neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments
        of the LORD your God which I command you.
        (Deuteronomy 4:1-2)

        God cares about every one of His words…..
        Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
        Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. (Proverbs 30:5-6)

        God’s words will never pass away…..
        Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
        (Jesus Christ, Son of God) (Mark 13:31)

        God will cursethose who change His Word…..
        For I testify unto every man that heareththe words of the prophecy of this book,
        If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that
        are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book
        of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the
        holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:18-19)

        This doesn’t sound like God inspired only the “concepts” in Scripture.
        He clearly directed every word and will not tolerate man’s meddling with it.
        He calls them “His Words.”

        If your Bible is a King James Bible, it preserves God’s words because it was translated
        using “formal equivalence.” All other Bibles were translated using “dynamic equivalence,”
        in which the translator is free to change words as long as he conveys the “idea.”

        Read the above Scriptures again. Which kind of Bible do you think God wants you to have?


  • If Amazing grace is done right then it will include either bag pipes, or an Irish Tenor or both. Bottom line.

    • never thought about it like that but you are right! there is a show Americas Got Talent I love but hadn’t watched in yrs this yr they have 3 El Divo guys, OH MY GOSH they are amazing youg, and 1 or 2 from another country I think. They made to the top last, hope they win! The amzing part of them is that they never knew ea other before this, threw song together and auditioned!

  • Teresa B…Watching America’s Got Talent?
    Thank you for again, for confirming my point in the lack of your disecenment…Raymond & Marie should be so proud to call you brothers and sisters in Christ!

    Guess she did not take Raymond’s recommendation about how corrupt television is!!!

    • You know what? Pretty clear you have never watched the show. It I nothing like the others some yrs a 6 yr old wins the Million and and a contract. Oh and guess what they might be Christian. Many Christians have won Idol, using it for their Faith to pursue their Career. You are very malicious in your attacks considering we have never met. Yes I did read the TV and that is one reason I no longer have it. In the 50s and a little later there still were good programs, not anymore. My discernemt told me long ago I should leave here as it is NOT a Christian site when certain people claiming to love God do these things, why is it that you cant see that or anyone else for that matter? I just don’t get it

  • Just for credibility, last post I meant ‘discernment”…just did not want to give Raymond an opportunity!!!

    • Still on the attack mode I see.

    • Article: Burning Man Draws 68,00 to America’s Largest
      Pagan Cult Gathering.

      Date: September 01, 2013

      Comment (#384) made by Joseph:

      Siging off, you will never see another post from me!


      Joseph lied because he is still posting on this site.
      Can liars be trusted? Nope…


  • One of my absolute favorite songs, brings a tear to my eye every time.

    Harry Simeone Chorale – The Little Drummer Boy (1958) best and only version. IMO.

    I have no gift to bring………………………:(

    thats fit to give our King…………………. 🙁


    I played my best for Him……………….

    Then He smiled at me…………………………….:) Me and my drum. 🙂

    • hmm my fav as a Child. Never hear it anymore since radios only can music and same ole songs. I really do miss the mainstream church as it always sings Carols and I love them, I don’t listen to folks who say they weren’t based on God or whatever. I wish we sang them all yr long!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks again

  • Proverbs 14:7
    Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.

  • Remember Me by Mark Schultz I love the words, the way it builds in chorus

  • Check out this page in {0} translated from {1}translated fromOriginal:Translated:Automatic translation powered by Microsoft® TranslatorStart translatingStop translatingCloseClose and show original pageSelect
    “… when the struggle seems to be drifting definitely towards a world social democracy, there may still be very great delays and disappointments before it becomes an efficient and beneficent world system. Countless people … will hate the new world order … and will die protesting against it. When we attempt to evaluate its promise, we have to bear in mind the distress of a generation or so of malcontents, many of them quite gallant and graceful-looking people.” — H. G. Wells, in his book entitled “The New World Order” (1939)


    • Hi Shelly you are absolutely correct but I got beat up to bad yesterday, they might hit me over the head in a drunken stupor!!! Truthfully the Rainbow people are easier to infiltrate they are happy all the time!!! 🙂 Blessings to you today in the Lord

      • O yea wait till you try preaching about the mark of the beast that they have already taken. You will find out how happy go lucky they are.

        Nothing more violent then a liberal who has just learned he has been lied to all his/her life.

        • yeah but you W Va guys are used to it! 🙂

        • So, DC if you don’t mind me asking, who has already taken the Mark, and what is it? I hadn’t realized it was out. Of coarse like I said, I am behind the times sometimes!! Or were you talking future tense? LOL 🙂

          • Hi Suez good to see you, far as I am concerned having it in a School already, People voluntarily doing it already, and in 2014 to be in the Health Care, close enough for me! blessings to you in the Lord

          • Its not officially the mark yet. Eventually it may be or there will be a mark of some sort. Future tense of course.

            I agree with Tracy on this one. People think the antichrist has to be present for the mark. NOPE, I think the mark will mostly be established already. With still quite a number of people who have refused it. He will just step in and solve the problem and say. OK anyone who refuses or has been refusing it. Can no longer buy or sell without it. ITS THE LAW OF THE LAND. Along those lines

          • (Revelation 17:13 KJV) These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

          • @ DC, the scripture that gets me wondering is this one: “Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.” I wonder what the Image will be that the false prophet wants the people to make??? Hmm Interesting to say the least. I had a dream about that one time. Interesting, it was.

          • Sister, can I give my thought on that, Please!

          • No I change my mine on that one, Sue, D City can answer, Thank you.

          • @Ron, by all means! No Problem.

          • Aw, I see. Personally, I believe it will be something no one thinks it will be. I think it could have something to do with DNA, or like the third eye thingy IN their forehead. Just a guess, but it may be not what people been thinking it to be. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit if we are Born Again into Jesus Christ, and we can see no physical mark, so why wouldn’t the devil imitate God, he does in most everything else. I think there are things no one understands as of yet. But as things get rolling faster, then we will say, Aw yes, that is what the Lord meant!! Of coarse we are for-warned about some things, but much is still hidden, but will be brought out as time goes on. Just my take on it. No biggy…:-)

          • Some think the image will be that of a DRAGON!!

            Of course there is much implied as to this in scripture but nothing directly stating that. Some verse eluding to what you asked.

            (Revelation 13:11 KJV) And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

            (Revelation 13:12 KJV) And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

            (Revelation 13:3 KJV) And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

            (Revelation 13:4 KJV) And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

            Now Daniel does a lot of things in his scripture on visions. Daniel tells us that this is symbolic of something that has happened in the past.

            Nebuchadnezzar set up a golden statue as an image for people to worship at one time.

            Daniel is telling us that an image similar to such will be done again in the future.

            This image will be tied to the man who receives a deadly wound and is healed. But there is much to elude to it being a dragon type image. Those are my thoughts on it. Ron I am sure can expound.

            (Revelation 13:12 KJV) And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

            (Revelation 13:13 KJV) And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

            Remember dragons breaths fire correct?

            Well the beast will call fire from down and preform wonders like this. People will probably say he has powers like a dragon ect ect. May refer to him as the dragon king, hmmm interesting term that we have all already heard before. Dragons are and have been a fascination for many people for a long long time and the Asians still worship and use dragons as major symbols to this very day. Again all speculation of course. I am sure Ron can expound greatly as he has looked into this much more then I have.

            Again I was referring to future tense on the mark. The mark is tied specifically to the right hand or forehead thus leading to a very specific reality that it will be physical in some way.

            As far as there actually being a dragon that once existed I believe yes and its described in Job. So such a fire breathing creature existed and God used that exact creature in a conversation to Job about fear of the Lord. Its the Lord speaking and describing it in explicit detail to Job. So I believe there were dragons at one time. Scripture says much to back that up.

          • @DC. OK, interesting, well we will have to wait and see I guess. Yes, I know all the scriptures. Been reading the bible for over 40 years now… 🙂 Like you said, just guessing. Everyone right now is just guessing. I find this verse interesting: “(Revelation 13:3 KJV) And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.” AS is were wounded to death,,,meaning? That it was wounded to death or it just appeared that it was wounded to death. All of those verses, just keep us guessing, until the Lord really opens it up or we see it and then get realization about it. Whatever the case, I am confident in the fact that those who are Gods have his seal, and can not have the devils mark given to them. I am thankful for the sealing of the Holy Ghost, and the blood of Christ upon me and my brothers and sisters in the Lord! Praise his Holy Name!!!

          • We were warned about the mark for a reason otherwise its idle words and the Lord doesn’t speak idol words 🙂 Just little common sense for ya. Their is no question its future and there is no question “YOU WILL KNOW” see cause you wont be able to buy or sell without it. 🙂

            So there are a few things in your 40 years you missed in there. 🙂

            My quote is quite obvious I was speaking of future through scriptures and was speculating. Just a little more common sense for ya. 🙂

            D City:
            Again all speculation of course.

            Hope that helps you understand a bit better through a common sense perspective. God Bless Sister.

          • DC Really? Well DHA!! I know, we will know. I said we may not know NOW. Why do you continually twist peoples words,so then come back to belittle them, and make yourself to be the big teacher of scripture??? I come and try and ask a simple question, or make a simple comment, and once again get beat and made to think I don’t read scripture, or I have no common sense. I know we won’t be able to buy or sell without it,,,yes I read that, and yes I do have common sense! I never said in 40 years of reading I know everything. Quite the contrary. This is why I’m leaving this site. Once again another Christian leaves this sight because you and Ron in your constant proclamation the only ones, and your continuing to beat on the sheep. If your teaching is so good, then why do so many keep leaving? Saying they feel no love here, only beatings. Please exam yourself, and realize, to share the word is great, but to beat people with it and put people down and ridicule them is NOT of God, despite all your use of scripture. I would think I am wrong in this, but then again, how many have said the same thing time and time again, when they have left. So who is right and who is wrong. Just your little group of 2 or 3, and everyone else is wrong? I love you DC and have enjoyed much about you, but not your condemnations of people. I pray you have a great life. s

          • Cause based on your response you asked me a question which I thought was an honest sincere one. To which you turned around and replied with a sarcastic answer to my sincere response to you.

            I have no desire to discuss or answer anymore questions from you till your sincere in your asking without ulterior motives. No twisting anything.

            God Be With You

          • As far as condeming anyone. I don’t do that at all. I post scriptures and people do not like the scriptures I post. Their only reason in not liking them is between them and the Lord. I have a gift for seeing things for exactly as they are. Its a God given gift. Now God is using me to share his words with the gift he gave me. If it stings its not my problem. Again the only reason someone would not like it is because it resonates in some why in their daily walk with the Lord. But its hard to be humble about it.

            I condemn no one. I use my God given gifts that he gave me to share his truth. That will never change.

          • Yes Brother that is just what she does, It has been that way with me and Bren , too. She ask and then snaps back with that kind of replies. Like you don’t know what your talking about. If she wants to teach then by all means teach, but to ask for answers so you can content is not right.

      • LOL, Teresa, you reminded me of something. About those Rainbow people. We are a little behind the times. I thought rainbow people meant New Ages. So on the pogo game site once, I decided to go to the rainbow room to witness. LOL Well, I was floored!! And embarrassed, and appalled to say the least. It has gone from New Agers to now rainbow stands for lesbians!!! I was in a lesbie room!!! I hadn’t been there long when a game buddy of mine, seen that I was in that room. He sent me a private message, asking me what I was doing in a lesbian room…I hadn’t realized it for a while, then I thought oh well, I will witness to them…He about died laughing that I didn’t know when I went there….And I was embarrassed, because I had also been trying to witness to him…lol What must he had thought!!! This is some of the stuff, I have gotten myself into, just because I am so dumb and behind the times sometimes!!! 🙂 🙂

    • Hi Shelly, nice to meet you. This is just my humble opinion, but I think if you or anyone else, just decided to go, you would fall flat on your face. Unless God by his Holy Spirit directs one to go and do something like that, it is useless. It is the Holy Spirit that has is to lead us. To many people in this day and age, just take it upon them-selves to go. I have seen that become a disaster. If God wants you to go, he would tell you, in your prayer and alone time with him. Then he would have also prepared some hearts, and they would be respective. That is just my opinion. Let each do as they wish. But the leading of the Holy Spirit is so very overlooked and ignored today, in my humble opinion. God Bless your heart, God knows you have a desire to help people as do I! May the Holy Spirit lead and guide and prepare for us to do this type of thing, is his timing. Praise God!!! 🙂

      • Thank you Suez, Blessings to you I His Name

    • I will go with you Shelly providing we get to call down Fire and Brimstone! 😉
      Just kidding of course. Somebody else once asked Jesus about that and I think He said “You know not what spirit you are of, The Son of man did not come to destroy mens lives but to save them.”
      These folks are about the hardest group of people to reach there are. The spiritual strongholds satan has erected in their minds and hearts are very firmly planted. They have a “determined” unbelief. No doubt many of them are “Given over” by God. THAT is the most tremendous judgment of God in this age! They take great pleasure in blaspheming God’s tender Spirit. They tend to demand tolerance for all things perverse and unholy and find intollerable all things Holy, family or true and good.
      I would be the last one to discourage you to do this if it is what your heart is telling you is God’s will. If that is the case He will be with you. Sometimes our mission from God is as an inditement to the world for sin. Isaiah told God “Here am I, send me. And then God told Him to “Go! Make the heart of this people dull and their ears heavy…lest they turn and I should heal them.” If that is what God commisions us to do then we should rejoice that we are doing God’s will. John Newton said “If 2 angels were sent down from heaven, One to conduct an empire and the other to sweep a street, neither of them would have any desire to change employments.”

      • Forgive me Lord for my comment above. I should boldly go there for you

        • Bless you, Sister. His grace is sufficient. I’m so glad of that.

  • Ron,
    That is just not true. Satan uses the word of God, twists it nad attacks God with Go’s own word.
    Jesus in the desert had God’s word used against him by Satan.
    Eve had God’s word used against her.
    It is a tactic of Satan to use
    God’s own word to attack and confuse.

    I ask you Ron, what part of salvation do you think that you have to perform to get yourself to Heaven?

    • @Marie, amen Marie. That is very true, and I have thought about that several times on here. But be-careful or you will start getting beatings like I did. Women are not suppose to say anything or have a opinion, or be versed in scripture you know. We are just to remain silent and do our house work!!! LOL 🙂 Now wait for the scriptures to start flying!! I have given the opinion that one can kill with the scriptures also, with the mean spirited delivery, but of coarse, I know nothing because I’m just a woman!! Yet Paul said: “Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” bless you Marie, I appreciate you!!

      • @Suez, Agree, but I think Marie has it figured out already. She’s already been attacked by “Joseph.” Sound familiar? Just like an actor!!! When you have some time go up and re-read “Joseph’s” comments.

      • Now wait for the scriptures to start flying!! Sue Just how would I answer that without scripture? Tube to perhaps? Sorry that’s not me. I took a beating to in a blog with Have ya not read and you done your share there. I don’t forget much, Sue. It all written in God’s books.

        2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
        2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

    • Marie, I’m not getting what not true, Maybe you can refresh my memory on that on? But on your question lets go to what the Bible says shall we.

      Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
      Rev_3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

      So to be saved you only have to believe, To believe you have to hear His voice, to hear His voice you will follow, to follow is to obey Him, He is truth.
      Here is the main Key.
      Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
      Rom_2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

      Joh_12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

  • Suez for some reason my computer wont pop into where the conversation is and I am lazy and wont search, apologize. On the Rainbows I as going back 20 yrs or so but either way they are more peaceful! that story sounds like something I would do! 🙂

  • @ Kevin. I couldn’t find your original post, you posted to NTEB, so I will ask you here. You said you know many Catholics who will shine as the stars or words to that effect. You also said they cry out to jesus for the women, and babies on bended knee. How many other religions bend their knee’s to false gods? My question is,,,What jesus are they crying out to? The jesus the RCC promotes is not the Jesus of the Bible Kevin. Are they crying out to the jesus they crucify, every time they take mass, and eat their wafer and drink of their cup, that they believe is the literal body and blood of Jesus??, believing that he comes alive so they can crucify him over and over and over again? Is that the jesus they are crying out to? I know many people who are NOT Christians, yet they are in worldly terms good people, and have morals, and would also feel horrible about abortions. So lets just think about what jesus they are crying out to. There is more than one jesus now, there is the false jesus, the false spirit and a false gospel. This is what the RCC stands for and believes and promotes. And their poor members are swallowing it hook line and sinker. If a catholic is truly Born Again into Christ Jesus, they can’t stay in the catholic church which is full of false gods and running over with paganism. Kevin, with all the false gods, false jesus and the false gospel, and Mary worship, if they had the true jesus, they should run from there and not look back! They would leave, not being able to stand the spirit of anti-christ that abounds there!! Some may think I am sounding harsh, but it is the Gods honest truth. And if you think there are Catholics that worship the true Jesus, and stay in the RCC, you and them are deceived. I appreciate you brother, and the work you are trying to do, but you need to open your eyes on this one. Thanks

    • Sue, you sound like me about 4 years ago. I am not going to get into a typical NTEB debate that infects this site daily. I could type away until my fingers were bloody stubs and I doubt it would change your heart. Romans 14 is my “Go To” Chapter when it comes down to what are “Doubtful disputable things” it says let everyone be convinced in his or her own mind. I would rather be a practicing Roman Catholic with a heart on fire with love for Jesus Christ than a luke warm “ANYTHING ELSE.” I believe it is quite simple who the body of Christ is. It is those who love and obey Jesus Christ, the Head. It quite transcends denominational boundries. The head tells the hands to do something and they obey and do it. The Head tells the feet to go and they go. I believe the Roman Catholic Church is a manmade institution just like the Methodists, Lutherens,, Presbeterians, or the other thirty some thousand denominations including the denomination of being “Non Denominational.” Paul said if you say “I am of Cephas or I am of Appolos or I am of Paul, are you not being carnal? Being carnal is “Death.” There is no life in ANY man made institution. It is the Spirit Who gives life the flesh prophets NOTHING. Every time I here a Catholic “Protestant Basher” I feel the Spirit grieved and I get almost nausious and repelled. Every time I hear a Protestant “Catholic basher” I feel the Spirit grieved and I get Nausious and repelled. There is NO LIFE in either camp. If I were to become a Practicing Roman Catholic There would be no Idolatry in the mass because I would believe Christ is in it and I would worship Him. The Command is after all “Take, EAT” not “Take Understand”

      Romans 14:3-5 “…for God has received Him, Who are you to judge another mans servant, to His own master (God) he stands or falls. Indeed he will be made to stand; for God IS ABLE to make him stand. One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind…”
      I am convinced in my own mind and heart that I belong to Jesus Christ. That I am betrothed to Him. If I were to become a Roman Catholic (Which I have no intention of doing) that I would still belong to Jesus Christ. That I would STILL be betrothed to Him. There is no power in this universe that can snatch me out of the hand I hold or separate me from the love of God that is in Jesus Christ the Lord.
      Im sure Satan would absolutely love to to draw me out into an endless debate rangling over things that would neuter my calling and THAT would be an insult to God and what Kingdom work He wants to do through this unworthy vessel. If anybody wants to address their RCC hate to someone there are many websites of Loving and knowledgable, and able Catholic Apologists that could address you questions. I have kingdom work to do and refuse to be baited out by satan or anybody else. Dont be surprised if Catholic hate gets no response from me. I dearly love the Catholic faithful and everyone that loves and obeys Jesus Christ.

      • @Kevin, with all due respect brother, I am not downing the catholic people per say. But the RCC is demonic. The Pope and the dark Pope and all the underground junk is a abomination to God. I understand the other denominations are not perfect by no means either. But I don’t really think you know exactly what is going on in the RCC. I feel sorry for the people, but not the higher ups. They know exactly what they are doing. Their God is satan. Maybe you should do some research on this. I am not trying to debate with you. But if you think the RCC is all hunky dory, your just plain wrong. The end, and I’m not wanting to debate either. Think what you want to, it is your right to do so. Still love you in the Lord. 🙂

  • So, some of you think it’s me or Brenda that is Joseph? well. I can tell you one thing you gifts are failing you if you think that. I believe you’ve flipped your wig. I would not use deceit in acting as someone else like that to draw contention. If I have anything to said to anyone I’m man enough to say it as Ron Murphy. I fear God only. I love you people but I’m not hiding from none of ya.

    • Are you saying this as Ron or Joseph? lol just kidding LOL

      • Good one, LOL

        • These women have almost convinced Raymond. They are very evil to bare false witness. I hope they seek forgiveness. I know they owe that to me, but I also know their pride will hold them back. They will either lie or Seek God for mercy, but I know what God will tell them. The same as His word.

          • Amen Brother, through the eyes of discernment I knew it wasn’t you. 🙂

          • Good discernment, Brother, all this started in 441 and continued to 443. They set the snare and was taken in by it. Now we get to see if the are real or not? The Lord sure do know what He’s doing.

          • @Ron, Let’s get this clear; not once have I thought that you or Brenda is “Joseph”, but keep in mind he IS on this site as someone else.

          • You been busted, Tracy. The thing about it you don’t have to have much discernment to figure it out. Post 484 starting with Marie she addressed me, Sue told her to what that I would give her a beating and just watch the scriptures fly and the you came in to insinuate that I was Joseph. It very clear who the subject was you and Sue was referring to. So now you lie again. That’s just what I expected of you. I don’t have to judge you, God sees it all , it’s in His book. Even what I’m saying now is, also. So, He will judge me, too. Have a good day.

          • @Ron, you are assuming something that isn’t true. I have never thought you, Brenda, or DC was Joseph. I was addressing Marie on a couple other things that I agreed with. If that made me look as though I agreed with her accusing you of being Joseph, I apologize. I wasn’t agreeing with that part. I guess I should of made that part more clear. It wouldn’t stand to reason you would need to come in as another name, as you have never had a problem saying things yourself. So, no I do not think any of you are hiding behind a different name. Just wanted to make that clear. Thanks

          • Suez, I was agreeing with you about being attacked, but wasn’t saying Ron was “Joseph.”
            That’s not Ron’s style.

          • @Ron, Busted for what? My comments about “Joseph” were directed to Raymond. He attacked Raymond and then Marie. And, I will stand by what I said: he is on this site already. Go up and start reading again. I really don’t need to explain, because God knows our hearts, and for that I am very thankful..
            Why are you attacking Suez and I? We spoke the truth from experience. Are you feeling guilty?
            Again, no way you could be “Joseph.”

          • Tracy to Sue:
            @Suez, Agree, but I think Marie has it figured out already. She’s already been attacked by “Joseph.” Sound familiar? Just like an actor!!! When you have some time go up and re-read “Joseph’s” comments.

            Sue To Marie:
            @Marie, amen Marie. That is very true, and I have thought about that several times on here. But be-careful or you will start getting beatings like I did. Women are not suppose to say anything or have a opinion, or be versed in scripture you know. We are just to remain silent and do our house work!!! LOL 🙂 Now wait for the scriptures to start flying!! I have given the opinion that one can kill with the scriptures also, with the mean spirited delivery, but of coarse, I know nothing because I’m just a woman!! Yet Paul said: “Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” bless you Marie, I appreciate you!!

            Marie to Ron:
            That is just not true. Satan uses the word of God, twists it nad attacks God with Go’s own word.
            Jesus in the desert had God’s word used against him by Satan.
            Eve had God’s word used against her.
            It is a tactic of Satan to use
            God’s own word to attack and confuse.

            I ask you Ron, what part of salvation do you think that you have to perform to get yourself to Heaven?
            I was the subject of all this.

          • Hi Ron, I bit my tongue today but cant now. One should be careful accusing others of Pride when its staring them in the face. I have yet to see you humble yourself and admit at times you sound Prideful. Pride can cover more than one topic, I myself am guilty but when I recognize it have to atone. Not easy for me. Lines are starting to cross to me and that makes me sad. Blessings in the Lord to you

          • Should of bit a little harder, Teresa. I’m sure you would say all the apostles was prideful, too. I know you would of Jesus. But Pride comes before the fall, so If I’m full of pride as you think then just watch, if it is so it will happen, otherwise judge righteously, Sister. The lord know how to keep us humble, just ask Peter. He will chastise those He loves, Amen! I’m glade He loves me. It hard to be humble when the wolves are snapping at your heels. The Lord was humble, but when they corrupted His fathers house, He wasn’t so humble. Jesus said anger but sin not. Have you ever heard a bad word come from me? Have I ever threatened anyone, other than God’s own Judgment? If so, that would be the fruits of a prideful man. Let God judge me. If I be not of Him then, Lord God of all Heaven and earth, bring me down and let me stumble and fall. Your will be done, Lord of all. I believe He has the power and authority to do so. Now Teresa Prove me wrong with scripture and I’ll gladly, humble myself, and say I was wrong. Otherwise you have no way of knowing if I’m humble or not. But why do you judge to begin with?

          • Ron I guess we have a different idea on meanings of Pride. It is not threats or a bad word. I am not asking the Apostles I was asking you. I am not judging you, I asking you to look. I don’t need Scripture to tell me if I am not of the Spirit I know my conscience tells me. I can go find plenty of Scripture to banter back to you but what does that do? Just a diff on interpetations again, like I said, just wondering,

          • You say you judge not, but yet that’s not what is coming from you words. What you see as pride is knowledge, you don’t know me well enough to say, I’m prideful. My only pride is in knowing God. And maybe that’s what you are picking up on. If it is then, God said it was okay, to do so. If you can post scripture to prove me wrong then please I delight in reproof and correction. I will utterly enjoy a good humbling from the word of God, It cuts me many times when I read it. Let’s me grow closer to Him everytime. And Sister that what I’m all about, getting closer to the Lord.

          • I can be humbled thru people thru God. That is not the same as being humbled before Him. Yes you can Pride yourself knowing Him, but there is another side of Pride and pretty sure you are aware. Means many things. I will not post Scripture to just argue I cannot do that in this instance, I am speaking across the table from you.

          • Yes I’m aware of Pride, as I’ve always said before even the Apostles had to deal with it. Wanting to know who sets where in the kingdom and who was the greatest among them. But never the less the Lord loved them all greatly. Pride is not the worse thing that can happen to a person, but you can let it destroy you. Their was more envy than pride, as it is another source of pride , that the Apostles had. But you know the Lord knows just how to keep us humble. Teresa I really have nothing in my life to be proud of, I’m not rich I barely eat, I don’t own much, My truck set with the transmission down, My single wide is an old 1975 model that is in severe need of repair. I lease my property, I own nothing of much value, I’m in debt to taxes. I live on 690. a month, My Children are on drugs and live away from me. I’m retired from the mines with little if anything to show for it. I’m just a little guy, quiet natured. I have no education not even high school. All I have in my life is everything. And as long as I have Him that’s all I need. I’m very happy. He gave me a good woman, that don’t care if I’m poor. And He gave me His precious Word that I adore. So you see I have little to be proud of. And it’s the pride of life that corrupts a man anyway. Jesus spoke of the farmer:

            Luk 12:16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
            Luk 12:17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
            Luk 12:18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
            Luk 12:19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
            Luk 12:20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
            Luk 12:21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
            Luk 12:22 And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
            Luk 12:23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.
            Sorry, if I annoy you posting so many scripture, But these are words of life and I love them with all my heart.

    • @Ron, I don’t think you or DC are Joesph, you both got guts enough to say things on your own name…lol 🙂

      • Good enough for me, Sue. But Tracy is a truce breaker. She make the trace and then breaks it. She stands out side the box and shoots darts into it. What she has implied is baring false witness, stirring contention and stife, along with you, she has lied and used deceit all of which are not of God. She owes me an apology, for baring false witness. She owe God an apology for these other things . She has a lot of repenting to do. But I would be surprised if that happens, knowing of her brags of discernment. So We will see if she is a true Christian or not, and someone full of pride or not. I’ve never beat on you Sue, it’s just you came against my covenant with God. Pushing on me things I take no part of. Have a bless day.

        • Well Ron, I guess all of us have been guilty of pushing people on things here. And if anyone is guilty of anything, let God be the judge not us. We shouldn’t be here to be angry, cause strife and cause division in the body of Christ. And the judging of the heart and ones salvation is certainly not our job, but it is God’s. I am leaving this site, because like Sweet Brenda you wife, I am sick and tired of all the back biting, and hatred and accusing of the brother n I see here. And I repent for any part I may have had in any of it. I love all fellow Christians. I came here for fellowship. Nothing else. I feel no peace here, and no unity what so ever. So I am leaving because I can’t even sleep some nights because of all the rifting. I wish everyone here Gods love, and my love. And I hope someday we may all be in true unity and brotherly love. Teresa and some others have my email if anyone wants to stay in touch. But for now, I am leaving, at least for a season. Goodbye. May the Lord grant to ALL of us Peace, strength, and that we may be filled with the love of God that drives all flesh and pride out. In Christ Jesus name. suez

          • Hello I am sad to see this but not surprised. I am low on the pole here, don’t even belong, which has been asked to me at times. I am here for same reasons and thought it sure was going to be different. What I see is a place where half dz believe one thing and anyone else is hit and miss. If they are questioned eve between ea other, all hell breaks loose. I guess I had a diff idea of what the Lord wants in how His Word is spread. The only Peace here is everyone agrees NO one can disagree.Bad as Obama at times! God Bless you, see 🙂

          • Would it be better if I just let people misrepresent me and belittle me and not defend my faith at all? What if God called me to teach and gave me a more clear view of prophecy? Would it not be good for you to take heed? Should I be silent not to cause stife and contention? Should I obey God or man? Jesus said I come not into the world to bring peace, but a sword. If I could take away the strife and contention, I would. But If I obey God , then I must do what He’s called me to do. I love and follow Him. Others may disagree, that’s fine. God is the judge as Sue says and He’ll judge righteously. I Hope you peace, Sue. I will miss you, please don’t stay gone long. The Lord is at work! Even on this sight. The Sweet Spirit of Jesus lay upon you and comfort you.
            Mat_11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

          • Ron the point is totally missed. Here you have a person Suez thinking the same as you on Trib. But you find something else to argue. Your main focus here is the Trib. Because of it an ally is gone so to speak. Don’t you see here, no one is attacking you on this, you get defensive which is normal but also called conviction. Maybe just once someone is right? Its not about being silent, its about the approach I ike Honey instead of ??

            Yes you should be silent if you cause contention as that is not what God wants when you are already talking to Christians who have been round the circle. You are talking to your Brother or Sister in Christ, do you do that w everyone you know? If so, what a stressful day for all .This all could be turned around so simply by people being humlble and enacting on it I guess. End of day, what did we learn. That we are right no matter what? Is that right in itself? I don’t know but like I said many x we need to know when to shut up. I thought the Lord answered my prayers for 2 days awhile back, which He did, then, but what happened? You are right He is must still be working but the ending might be a surprise to all. Good night and Gods blessings to you all

          • Teresa You don’t know the history. She, the same as you, begin the contention, by joining in with Tracy, Levi and STL calling me prideful and Trying to shut me up. And then she wanted my email, so I gave and because I wouldn’t watch them she got very hostile about it, after I asked for her forgiveness for not viewing them. She said I was full of pride and come against me on a large blog, when I was heavely attacked. I still have those emails. But I try to not hold to the past, but as you can see with the statement from Sue above, it isn’t buried at all. God is my witness to what I say. I’m sure she sees it different. She loved Levi, His word’s as these people say just flow off his tongue like water. So she despised me for Levi’s leaving. But it was Levi that come at us on every account He would ask questions and grow to anger at the answers , God be the Judge. You can be too if you go back and look.

          • No I don’t and I do not want to know.What you are addressing here is gossip. I am sorry but I did not read it, I cant be a party to that w anyone, no one. Since Suez has befriended me off site, will tell you I am passing this along so she can addess it. I am sorry I just don’twant in this mix, just want to say I don’t like the strife and think it is ungodly. That’s all, Blessings to you

          • Then why get involved to begin with, Sister. If you don’t know, then why come to the defense of others that you don’t understand about? Would it not be better to stay out of it altogether? Yes let’s let Sue answer for herself. As I said she has her points to I’m sure. I’d like to hear what it is that I’ve offended her so much about. I guess it’s my attitude again, to boastful, I assume, full of pride of coarse.

          • Hi Ron, I think or tried to only speak of self when writing about a comment to me or about me as 3rd party. If not I apologize. I get involved when a person is attacked if I think they are wronged, and/or it involves me. In this case of fwd on, she said she left the site, and it then became gossip and she should know . I have no idea other than that what the issue is now or then. I am speaking of something different is all. Blessings Ron

        • @Ron, I have not implied that you are “Joseph.” Can you please understand? You couldn’t do “Joseph” even if you tried. As for as the truce, you said I broke it the other day whenever Brenda accused Levi as being Que. But, I was responding to Brenda not you; therefore, please keep your records straight.
          You have a good day.

          • Tracy, I don’t believe you. I was the subject of the discussion. That’s clear for all. But you say that I wasn’t, anyway. So, would you care to verify just who you discerned to be the culprit?

    • OK Im going to come out of the closet now IM JOSEPH!!!! TA DAAAA 😉
      Brother Ron their gifts are definitely failing of they have you pegged as Joseph.
      Whatever happened to the nice Joseph who was always bubbling over with love for Jesus Christ and had nice things to say about people? I knoooow I bet HEEEE is Joseph!!!
      Praise God Hallelujah. It is time to go to the mountains and do some editing. Im taking a guy with me named Ivan who has been struggling and falling back into alcohol. He does good for a few months and then relapses. (Badly) Please pray for this precious friend.

      • Yes Brother you friend is in our prayers. I think what Joseph found out about Raymond was he is getting all the glory over here for this work he’s posting while this , Brother Cloud is doing all the work. If Raymond was using Clouds work hew should of asked first or at least posted his name with it. But that is just my judgment on it. I love both my, Brothers. I believe since Raymond acknowledged Cloud all three parties should be happy now, and let peace reign. Maybe we can give all the Glory back to who it belongs, God, because He alone is worthy to begin with. Love you Brother, Peace of God be with you.

        • Ron…That was my point of interest from the beginning…I do not even follow this blog, my mother brought this to my attention and she asked me to follow up on this since I have had personal contact with Brother David Cloud and “His” ministry…As Raymond so plainly stated that I should start my own website if I do not want to be censored?, Raymond should take his own advice and produce his own material from his own study…It is not right to post material without giving credit to the author, no matter what the message…Everything I have commented on was from my own writings, anyone can cut and paste articles…By the way, Raymond did not even post a real picture of himself on his profile (by his own admission), what does that tell you?
          I am Joseph (Not Ron or Brenda or DC) and I am a Born Again Bible Believing Christian who repented and ask God to forgive me and put my Faith in His One and Only Begotten Son of The Father, “Jesus” and through Christ’s Death, Burial & Ressurection from the grave and Jesus’s Shed Blood I have eternal LIFE!!! Jesus is seated on the right hand of His Father (GOD)…Jesus The Christ (Messiah) is My Lord & Saviour…ACTS 20:21

          • Hi Joseph, AMEN on your Scripture!

          • That was my take of it all, Joseph. You done what was right. It’s not right to post the work of another and claim it as you own. If He would of given the man credit, I’m sure Cloud would of been satisfied. Maybe now he will be. Even though I don’t agree with some of it, the work was his. But really it all God’s to begin with. What we are give is His to begin with. He will not share His glory. All goes back to Him, tell Cloud that for me Brother and thank him for the work for me. God will reward for your love.

          • I hope that clears up all the “mystery” that went behind, “who is Joseph?” I’ll see anyone who has been redeemed when we are with “Our Saviour, JESUS!!!”

          • Now that’s out of the way just who is Joseph? 🙂 🙂

          • Here is what I strive to be:

            #1…A CONTENDER…Jude 1:3…Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
            #2…A WATCHMAN…Ezekial 33:6…But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand.
            #3…A BEREAN…Acts 17:11…These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

            It’s only the Lord I will have to stand before!!!Romans 14:11 – For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

          • Hi Joseph, Thank you for sharing that, I was trying to make a joke as I know how you love the Lord! I have failed before on here trying to do so, I am sorry! 🙂

          • Joseph is one of our Brothers, STL run from this site. Then Tried to blame me for it. He slandered Joseph hard, because he stood to our defense. God knows all about it.

          • no its a joke. in that when one describes who he is, the other person says something like who are you really?

            I don’t do well her w my funny sorry 🙂

          • Teresa…All is forgiven…It gave me an opportunity to share my testimony…How is that for a means to an end, after all that went down yesterday? It only revealed who is standing for The Word(s) of GOD! Acts 20:27…For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
            John 8:32…and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

          • Teresa…All is forgive…It gave me an opportunity to share my testimony…What a means to an end after all that went down yesterday?
            John 8:32…And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
            Acts 20:27…For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

            P.S…You might get this twice as the first post did not go through, so I had to repost from memory…Joseph aka every other name people referred to me as, yesterday! (LOL!)

          • Correction on spelling forgiven, just in case the spelling police are here!

          • the police seem to be in and out and spelling would not be an issue PTL Typos are not the same 🙂

          • Hi Joseph, not to worry that double would not be what I have been experiencing don’t think. I has been fine all day, so we will see in am. Thank you for forgivness and Scripture for such, Yes the 2 days were bad but most days on here are tool Blessings to you in the Lord

          • @ “Joseph???” I’m not sure that I understood exactly what you said in the above post. YOU are forgiving people for what happened Sat.; however, you obviously don’t remember YOUR attacks on Raymond and Marie. It was a wild rage. Go back and reread just what you said to Marie. Do you honestly think that is the way to lead a person to Jesus Christ?
            Regardless of who wrote Raymond’s post, they were very good and people were enjoying them. You appear more like an agitator than anything else.
            However, if you are a good friend of Bro. Cloud why don’t YOU get him on here to debate Ron and DC regarding the tribulation. I, for one, would really like to see it happen. Ron asked if anyone knew him well enough to contact him. It appears that you do.
            But, wonder why DC isn’t pushing this….

          • God Bless you, Brother! I remember you defenses of me and D City. I’ll never forget you Brother.

        • Thanks for your prayers for Ivan, Brother. We had an excellent time in the Lord. I sense he still needs more prayer to break over the hump and get on the stretch whole heartedly for the Lord or he will just continue in this roller coaster cycle.
          I love you too Ron. I love both you and DCs exposition and love for the Scriptures and even more your love for the Lord. You both seem to see and say with “One Voice.”
          I thought it quite obvious that Raymond was using material from someone else and he even made this clear in a few instances but in others he was not and even though I disagreed I rejoiced at the truth he posted. I guess I came on a little too strong against Joseph because I thought he was reproving Raymond too harshly and I tend to defend the underdog. I learned that from my Heavenly Father so I guess HE is partly to blame. 😉 HIS being at fault is always a GOOD kind of fault. So Joseph, if Ron regards you so highly I probably should too. If you see this post I offer my sincere apology.

      • I will surely pray for Ivan. Fahter help this man in Jesus Christs name.

        • Thanks DC. When I posted the prayer request I remember saying to myself “I bet it is a safe bet that both Ron and DC will respond that they will pray.” I LOVE that in my Brothers and Sisters. Thanks again.
          I look forward to meeting all you guys Here, There or in the air!
          Speaking of that I want to share something. I just finished reading a biography of Fanny Crosby (The blind hymnist and poet who wrote over 8 thousand hymns and was instrumental in bringing hundreds of thousands into the fold. She was at Ira Sankey’s death bed (He also wrote many hymns and sang at DL Moody’s crusades) Moody would say “The people come to hear Sankey sing and I CATCH THEM IN THE GOSPEL NET!!!!” HALLELUJAH!
          Shortly before Ira Sankey died Fanny Crosby told him “The whole Christian world is praying for your recovery! He shook his head. He bade Fanny to meet him in heaven, “There he said, I will lead you by the hand and lead you along the golden street up to the throne of God, and there we will stand and say to Him: “Now we see Thee face to face, saved by Thy Matchless Boundless Grace!” Hallelujah, I can scarcely repeat that without the hands going up and the tears coming down!

    • I know what happened. those cult people took you and replaced you? what the heck did I miss yesterday, now need to answer, just looks all funny when I wake up and see all this, oh and then ‘those women’? really? 🙂

  • Isa_29:21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.

  • Ron and DC:
    To those who feel that they muct TEACH nad PREACH to everyone here and WANT to go through the Tribulation, have FUN, it’s going to be a wild party!
    As for me, I will be in Heaven at the Wedding Supper celebrating with Jesus Christ.

    • I hate to rain on your parade, Marie. But you need to know the wedding supper is going to be here on earth, Sister. The supper is the thousand year reign. The Bride is coming after that.

  • Good Morning All, yesterday and cont today, all the msg come intermixed double. One I read earlier in same group will show again. Annoying anyone else? Thanks have a Blessed last vac day!!

  • The Rapture:
    Written by Jack Kinsella who has gone on to be with the Lord in Heaven.

    Hope and Pain
    Life is pain. We can’t separate the two. It is pain that defines life. Our entrance into the life is characterized by pain; everything about the process involves pain; labor pains, birth pains, delivery pain and so on.

    We learn from pain — indeed, there is no more effective teacher.

    A person born without the ability to feel pain is a medical emergency waiting to happen, one who is unlikely to survive childhood unscathed.

    From the moment we enter this life until the day we leave it, life is an exercise in pain avoidance, bookmarked by pain on both ends.

    Physical pain is a necessary element of survival, but that doesn’t make it one millimeter more attractive. One of the most attractive features that heaven has to offer is found in the verse;

    “And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.” (Revelation 21:4)

    But notice where in the Book that promise is written. It is written at the end. Between now and then, all we have is ‘hope’ — and even for Christians, that hope isn’t always enough.

    It is one thing to talk about it, but it is another thing to feel hopeful when all seems hopeless.

    Oftentimes, it is because we misplace where our hope is supposed to be centered.

    Of all the kinds of pain that, taken together, define our earthly existence, the worst kind of pain is the pain of separation by death.

    That pain is different for Christians than it is for unbelievers, but different isn’t the same as non-existent. The Apostle Paul wrote:

    “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.” (1st Thessalonians 4:13)

    I can barely recall the tragedy that death was to me as an unbeliever. Death was the end. All that person ever was, gone forever. It was an incomprehensible tragedy.

    When I became a believer, the nature of death changed for me, but not the pain of it. I knew that death was not the end, but the beginning — for the one who has gone on.

    My Bible says I should be happy for that person. And I am, but that doesn’t do much to assuage my own loss.

    The pain of separation is (for me) no less intense.


    As a believer, my Bible tells me I should welcome death as a new beginning. But I have to confess that I don’t. It is part of that Christian dichotomy that notes that “everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.”

    Even those who object to the Rapture doctrine on the grounds it isn’t fair, base their objections on our inherent fear of the death process.

    They don’t object to the idea of believers going to heaven, or receiving Resurrection bodies, they object to the unfair notion that there are believers who will circumvent the normal death process.

    The Blessed Hope of the Rapture is, when broken into its component parts;

    a) the Hope that some of us won’t have to die to see Jesus; and,
    b) the Hope that we won’t have to endure the loss of separation from our loved ones who will be Raptured with us.

    What makes the Rapture attractive to us is entirely carnal — the avoidance of pain. Remove that element, and one also removes most of the philosophical objections to a pre-Trib Rapture — the so-called “Great Escape”.

    The Promise of the Rapture is our ‘Blessed Hope’ — but if its purpose was simply to ensure a smooth and painless passage into the next life for an elect group of Christians, I would also question its veracity.

    The Rapture is our ‘Blessed Hope’ because it is natural for human beings to want to avoid the pain of death and separation. And by its mechanics, that is what the Rapture offers — but that is NOT its purpose.

    Understanding that one fact sweeps away most of the confusion surrounding the question of why God would so bless what is arguably the least deserving and already most-blessed generation in the history of the Church Age.

    The purpose of the Rapture is NOT to provide a Great Escape from the pain of death and tribulation.

    The purpose of the Rapture is to withdraw the restraining influence on evil that is the Church Age ministry of the Holy Spirit.

    How does the Holy Spirit restrain evil? The Bible says He accomplishes it through His indwelling influence of the Church.

    “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you.”

    Of course, the Comforter of Whom Jesus is speaking is the Holy Spirit. (Notice Jesus refers to “Him” rather than to ‘it’)

    Notice also how Jesus defines the Comforter’s ministry during the Church Age.

    “And when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.” (John 16:7-8)

    During the Tribulation, there is no reference to a Restrainer reproving the world of sin or righteousness or judgment. The Tribulation is a time of unrestrained evil and unrestrained Divine judgment.

    Paul tells us what holds back what he calls “the mystery of iniquity” –or, an evil so pervasive that it causes “all the world” to worship the beast. (Revelation 13:4) Paul writes,

    “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only He who now letteth will let [restrain], until He be taken out of the way. And THEN shall that Wicked be revealed. “(2nd Thessalonians 2:7-8a)

    The Restrainer is not a thing, but a “He”. And that “Wicked” is also a person.

    Until He [the Restrainer] is ‘taken out of the way’ that Wicked cannot be revealed — because he won’t have the Satanically-energized power to do so.

    The power and signs and lying wonders are not manifested until after the Restrainer is taken out of the way.

    But Jesus promised the Church that the Comforter will indwell us until He comes for His Church. So we have two conflicting promises.

    The first is that the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the way BEFORE “that Wicked” is revealed. (2nd Thessalonians 2-6-9)

    The second is that the Comforter will indwell believers until Jesus returns “in like manner as you see Him go.”

    As the Apostles watched Jesus ascend into Heaven after Pentecost, two angels stood by, and addressed them.

    “Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:11)

    Jesus did NOT ascend into Heaven astride a white horse, accompanied by ten thousands of His saints, and bearing a flaming sword of judgment. He ascended into Heaven in secret, witnessed only by His Apostles and the two angelic witnesses.

    So, if Jesus is to return for His Church in “like manner” to the way He left it, then He comes in secret, visible only to the Church and the angelic witnesses.

    Jesus ALSO promised that the Comforter would indwell us until He returns for us.

    If, as I said, the purpose of the Rapture was to provide a ‘Great Escape’ for a single generation of supremely undeserving Christians, then I would share the same problem as others do.

    Why wouldn’t the Church have to endure the Tribulation? What are we, something special compared to all those generations who came before?

    In reality, the Rapture isn’t a Great Escape for Christians — it is the promised evacuation of the Holy Spirit — which requires the evacuation of the vessels He indwells.

    It might seem unfair from the perspective of man, but therein lies the difficulty. God doesn’t see things the way that we do.

    That is why He expects us to trust His Word.

    “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths. (Proverbs 3:5)

  • JC

    HEBREWS 5:10…For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

    • Yes, Brother, Amen to that! What they don’t understand is the implications of their teachings, if it’s not the true word of God. I fear my God, greatly.

  • The Holy Spirit is with Power.

    Act_1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

    Rom_15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

    2Ti_1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

    So there forth The Spirit of God can not be gone in a rapture, False doctrine all the way.

    These verses clearly show the people of God endued with the power of the Holy Spirit in the time of great tribulation.

    Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
    Dan 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
    Dan 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
    you can’t do Exploits without the Spirit of God.

    Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
    The power has to come from the Holy Spirit.

  • From Maries post:
    The Restrainer is not a thing, but a “He”. And that “Wicked” is also a person.

    Until He [the Restrainer] is ‘taken out of the way’ that Wicked cannot be revealed — because he won’t have the Satanically-energized power to do so.

    “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only He who now letteth will let [restrain], until He be taken out of the way. And THEN shall that Wicked be revealed. “(2nd Thessalonians 2:7-8a)
    So if he is taken out of the way, and then the wicked is revealed, then this verse is made void:

    2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    Either the Bible is a big lie or it’s the true Word of God. You people make it out to be a liar. Either he’s revealed before the Lord gathers us or he’s reveal after the Lord gathers us? Which is it? One part of the passage says before and the others says after! That is if the Spirit or the church saints is the restrainer. But that is not the case because God’s word is infallible. So it must not be talking of the Spirit, it is absolutely impossible. False doctrine, wake up people the Lord is coming soon.

  • In 2nd Thess 2:3 he says the antichrist must be revealed first, before the Lord gathers us.
    antichrist first then Gathering second
    So if the Spirit be the restrainer?

    2 Thess 2:7-8 He says we have to be gathered before the antichrist is revealed
    Gathering first then antichrist second

    2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

    antichrist first then Gathering second
    Gathering first then antichrist second

    Do you see why this won’t work?

  • The Holy Spirit is NEVER removed. NTEB teaches the same. The Holy Spirit is never removed. There is no mention of the Holy Spirit in 2 Thess before that verse in question and there would have to be because the HE is referring to someone and if the Holy Spirit isn’t mentioned then who is it. NTEB does not teach the Holy Spirit is removed.

    So since they agree that the Holy Spirit is NOT removed there since there is no mention of the Holy Spirit before the verse in question. This is very smart not to assume things that are not there.

    Then why do they assume that John in Revelation 4:1 is the church. The answer to that is simple. Just the same as they do not teach that the Holy Spirit is not removed cause its adding something in there that is an assumption. The same goes for John 4:1. It is assumed that John Represents the church and they should not assume that either.

    The only one being called “come up hither” is John as stated in Rev 4:1. It is a complete assumption to say that John is representing the church. They say the church is not mentioned in the book of revelation. Well this is where I will dig in and show you the truth of it.

    We need to be very careful and suspect of anyone who tries to argue doctrine from what from what the bible doesn’t say.

    So they say John in Revelation 4:1 represents the church when it says come up hither. But does it say that in Revelation 4:1. NO!! But it does say that John himself is called up hither. So we should not add things that the bible does not say. Secondly they try to back this up saying that the church is not mentioned after this. First just because the word church isn’t used does not mean the church is not present.

    The word JEHOVAH is not used in the books of Ester, Psalms, Obadiah. Does that mean He was not there? Of course not. So why would they do this with the word church in revelation. Its an argument from assumption. Continuing on.

    The dead in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    (1 Thessalonians 4:15 KJV) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

    (1 Thessalonians 4:16 KJV) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    (Revelation 14:13 KJV) And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which DIE IN THE LORD from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

    (1 Corinthians 1:2 KJV) Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be SAINTS, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

    Who are those that die in the Lord in Revelation are they the same? Yes of course.

    (Romans 16:2 KJV) That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

    This is clearly stated all over scripture. The phrase “in the Lord”, “elect (chosen)”, saints ect ect are used to refer to the church all over the new testament.

    We will stick to Ephesians since Ephesians is what they like to use quite often that is referring to specially them.

    (Ephesians 1:1 KJV) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

    (Ephesians 2:21 KJV) In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

    (Ephesians 1:22 KJV) And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

    (Ephesians 1:15 KJV) Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

    And many many many many many many many many other times in new testiment. The Gentile church is not raptured before the tribulation and this is just another example that proves the pre tribulation rapture is false.

    (Daniel 7:21 KJV) I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

    (Daniel 7:22 KJV) Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

    (Revelation 13:4 KJV) And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

    (Revelation 13:7 KJV) And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

    “The horn” in Daniel 7:21 refers to the Antichrist, just as “the beast” does in Revelation 13:4, and in both scriptures he makes war with God’s Saints, and overcomes them. This is persecution of the church during the tribulation period.

    The term saints is used all over Paul Epistles and all through Revelation after Chapter 3 (Revelation 5:8, 8:3-4, 11:18, 13:7, 13:10, 14:12, 16:6, 17:6, 18:24). Pre tribbers say these are the tribulation saints and they are different. ASK THEM TO SHOW YOU THE VERSE THAT SAYS SUCH!!!!

    Not only that but they say these people are saved different then those in their so called (GRACE AGE). I will prove this to be false as well.

    (1 Peter 1:1 KJV) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

    (1 Peter 1:2 KJV) ELECT according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST: GRACE unto you, and peace, be multiplied.


    (1 Peter 1:19 KJV) But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

    (1 Peter 1:23 KJV) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    (Revelation 1:5 KJV) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

    (Revelation 7:14 KJV) And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the BLOOD OF LAMB.

    (Revelation 12:11 KJV) And they overcame him by the BLOOD OF THE LAMB, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.


    (Zechariah 12:10 KJV) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of GRACE and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    Anyone who tells you the saints in the book of revelation are different are saved differently ARE ASSUMING THINGS, NOT TEACHING JESUS CHRISTS DOCTRINE.

    There is no verse that says these people are different, are not saved under grace.


    Pre trib teachers will say that servents are not the same as those under grace. That we are not servants nor referred to as servants. AGAIN THIS IS PROVEN FALSE TEACHING AS I WILL NOW SHOW YOU WITH GODS TRUTH.

    (Revelation 1:1 KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

    Rev 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

    (Revelation 2:20 KJV) Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

    (Revelation 2:23 KJV) And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

    (Philippians 1:1 KJV) Paul and Timotheus, the SERVANTS of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

    (Ephesians 6:6 KJV) Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

    (Revelation 19:2 KJV) For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

    (Revelation 6:9 KJV) And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

    (Revelation 6:10 KJV) And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

    The entire book of Revelation was WRITTEN FOR THE CHURCHES. SO SAITH JESUS CHRIST.

    (Revelation 22:6 KJV) And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.


    Again all written to the CHURCHES SO SAITH JESUS CHRIST.

    (Revelation 22:16 KJV) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the CHURCHES. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    Its a complete assumption and adding things that scripture does not say to say that saints, servants, chosen (elect), blood of lamb, blood of Jesus Christ is different in book of revelation.

    • Paul only mentioned the term “church” once in the first chapter of his epistle to the Galatians. Do not Galatians chapters 2–6 apply to the church? The same can be said of 2 Thessalonians; the term “church” is only mentioned in chapter one. And in Colossians, the term is mentioned in the first and last chapters of the book. Does not the body of the letter to the Colossians apply to the church? So this method consistently applied is senseless.

    • Amen!

  • 2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    What was Paul implying here anyway? He was not saying the antichrist would be revealed just before the Lord come to gather us. He is stating that Before the Lord can gather us the antichrist must be revealed and all the corresponding verses go will that, before the Lord gathers us to Him. If we say world war 3 most come before world war 4, that does not imply world war 4 happen right after world war 3. It may take years. It just means the world war 4 can not come until the 3rd comes first. The same as Paul with the gathering, before we can be gathered the antichrist must first be revealed and axhault himself above all that is called God,

  • JOSEPH: I have been asked to pass this along from Suez, she inquirying about a Book? zipmegolden@yahoo.com

    hope that works let me know thanks

    • I sent her an e-mail…Thank you.

  • This article is extremely biased and is clearly written by someone who has never actually gone to burning man. There are hundreds if not possibly thousands of art exhibits on the playa. That church depicted in the article was one of many varied art pieces. Did you know there was a life sized castle from the videogame Mario? Are people worshiping that too? It’s just artistic expression.

    If you were to give the church a closer inspection, it actually has a theme. The church depicts numerous horrible human atrocities. For what purpose? Ask the artist. I bet you didn’t know there is a guy inside the church that sits inside a confession booth and listens to your problems and offers advice on how to fix them. For example I asked about my frustrations with finding a new job and he suggested that I make a list of activities in a job that I enjoy so that I could narrow down my job search and find work that is truly fulfilling. So please tell me where the demon worshiping is happening?

    The burning man event is for open minded people to shed away social norms and explore aspects of humanity and their individualism. People come to the event for all different kinds of reasons. I imagine some do come to worship something that isn’t YOUR God. But unlike you I don’t really care about that. Ignorance and closed-mindedness is what bothers me.

    I came to Burning Man not to worship, but to experience something new and different with friends. I met lots of great people who were kind and generous with hugs. I saw a car converted into a Tie Fighter. That’s awesome. Tons of amazing art displays. A giant dome filled with hammocks to sleep in. A couch sitting on the top of a giant tower that we climbed and sat on. I could go on forever.

    The truth is you have a problem with Burning Man because it doesn’t conform to the parts of the Bible that happen to fall within your views. Religion is the Devil. It teaches people to hate being human. It is anti human. Of course I’m falling on deaf ears. You only follow that precious book of yours because your parents brainwashed you into believing it as a child just like how your parents were brainwashed by their parents.

    I just wish people of different faiths had a more open mind. I don’t really care in what you believe in as long as you’re willing to keep an open mind and consider alternative points of view. My beliefs have changed many times in life as I have grown older. For example I argue that there is a God and he is neither a he or she or it. To try and comprehend what it is, is trying to comprehend what the Universe is. We are like the ants to the human being. Fact is we don’t have enough information and a Bible with its ultra simplistic view of life definitely does not hold all of the answers. I know there is something out there and I imagine it finds human problems quite trivial. The good and the sin we do as humans is part of being human.

    Want to know what my religion is? Be a good, honest, decent person to other human beings. At Burning Man everyone is so nice and kind. Kinder than any other place I have ever been before.

    Yeah you would probably be offended by the weird outfits or full on nudity or the fact that some people fornicate in public, but that’s only because you’ve been taught by society that it is wrong. Burning Man is a place to temporarily explore the world without the closed minded opinions of society and guess what, at Burning Man there is no anarchy. There are no murders. You make it seem like we sacrifice people at an alter.

    If I were you, I would look at the real evils of this world like the bankers that are robbing this country blind or the military industrial complex that bombs innocent people in the middle east or the dictators that oppress their people or the women getting their genitalia’s cut off in Africa. Burning Man is a beacon of hope that humanity isn’t completely filled with a bunch of ignorant scum that rape and torture other people.

    If your God wants to damn me to hell for being a good person just because I don’t believe in him, then I don’t want to be a part of that God’s world. Clearly he is a psychopath. Oh and you know all of those rules you’re following in there? Stop conveniently ignoring the ones that seem too impractical.

    • I don’t do confessions. But I can direct you to who does. JESUS CHRIST.

      If I did do confessions and you asked me about a job problem with a hair cut like that. I WOULD TELL YOU TO GET A HAIR CUT AND YOUR JOB PROBLEMS WOULD BE SOLVED.

      Seek Jesus Christ, time is short.

    • hate to tell you Bio but God will condemn you to hell not for being a good person, for not repenting and following Him. I used to be you as well, many people praying for you. Have a good day

  • The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. (Psalms 9:17 KING JAMES BIBLE)

    44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

    46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

    48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

    49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. (Mark 9:44,46,48,49 KIMG JAMES BIBLE )

  • 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

    15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
    ( Jude 1:14,15 KJV )

    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

    10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

    ( 2 Thessalonians 1:7~10 KJV )

  • jen

    lol. Burning man is attended by middle class white kids who like to play art-hippy once a year. Then go back home to their laptops and tech jobs.

  • BHAHAHA. This is rich! Twisted words for frightened people. Perhaps if you want to know more about Burning Man, you should ask someone who has gone. Taking the judgements and interpretations of an uninformed blogger as truth really shows ignorance.

    But I suppose it is as they say: Ignorance is Bliss. It is easier to fear and distance yourself from what you do not understand than it is to just _accept_ the things you cannot change.

    • with all due respect sir I heard first hand from people here and no thank you been down that road before

    • A picture is worth a thousand words

  • Sorry to inform you but Jesus is at Burning Man every year. In fact, I think that there are fewer places he would rather be. You see, Jesus really LOVES burners. He also has shepherds there that bring his love and the message of the gospel. One thing that burners have going for them is that they are authentic and not hypocrites. Why don’t you add a dose of love to your condemnation and judgement? Better yet, attend to the paganisim, materialism and mediocrity in your own churches before ranting about other peoples sins.

  • This is for Raymond and all those who thought it not wrong to post someone else’s material! I also learned something through this, about posting material even when you ARE giving credit to the author. Hope this is helpful! Joseph

    WAY OF LIFE LITERATURE SHARING POLICY: Much of our material is available for free, such as the hundreds of articles at the Way of Life web site. Other items we sell to help fund our expensive literature, video, and foreign church planting ministry. Way of Life’s content falls into two categories: sharable and non-sharable. Things that we encourage you to share include the audio sermons, O Timothy magazine, FBIS articles, and the free eVideos and free eBooks. You are welcome to make copies of these at your own expense and share them with friends and family, but they cannot be posted to web sites. You are also welcome to use excerpts from the articles in your own writings, in sermons, in church bulletins, etc. All we ask is that you give proper credit. Things we do not want copied and distributed freely are items like the Fundamental Baptist Digital Library, print edition of our books, PDFs and other electronic editions of the books that we sell, the eVideos that we sell, etc. The items have taken years to produce at enormous expense in time and money, and we need the income from sales to help fund the ministry. We trust that your Christian honesty will preserve the integrity of this policy. “For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward” (1 Timothy 5:18).

  • veronica

    Teresa B.let me ask u this…when u go in vacation to exotic places…hawii…figi…paris…do u study ur bible to use the experience to grow in ur faith…many people do not…in fact many dony even go to church on a vacation…however burning man has many different camps…including chrisitian camps…jewish camps buddish camps…u name it and at those camps u meet those who share the same beliefs with…and they even have church services at the camps…which is more then i can say abouy most events people go to visit.the event restores my faith in human kind as a whole…and the lord shows me every year I go something that makes me say t he lord creates wonderful and beautiful people and art. In black rock city people, even if they are not christian follow christs law more yhen anyone else…love u neighbor as urself…they do so many random acts of kindness for each other…helping the needy…feeding the hungry…and are there for each…a lot more then the so called christians responding to this post. Yes in everyday life…I take my family to church…I read the bible…I say my prayers. When I went to my first burn I read up on what the man was to make sure it was not an idol…I found out about the theme camps…not only have I meet some of my favorite christians there…I have seen people find thier faith in christ there…which is more then I can say on any other vacation I have been on

    • Hi, thank you, I only got information from those who have attended or attended this yr. I apologize to you for not getting more information, I hope thru you the love of Christ shows and lives were changed. Blessings to you in the Lord

    • Hi veronica, I am trying to get off of this site because of all the strife, but I seen your post to Teresa, and just had to comment. I do not doubt there are some very nice people that come to this thing. Some worldly people can be nicer than a lot of Christians I have met also, and sometimes that wouldn’t take much! But, as a real Christian we have to focus on what the Lord said, and be obedient to his word. He warns us and instructs us on what to do and not do. Hear are some examples… KJV:: “2Co 6:13 Now for a recompense in the same, I (speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.
      2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
      2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
      2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
      2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
      2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.” I could give you more, but I think these speak volumes. You see problem with “those” churches at this rally that you say is there, that you do not realize is: Many people and many churches now days claiming to be christian, are not. “Christian” is a term, loosely thrown around now days, as is the name of jesus. There are New Age “christians” there are Mormons that claim to be christans, there is now chrislam, there are so many, many people claiming to be “christian”, but they are NOT worshiping the TRUE JESUS of the Bible. They are worshiping another jesus, another gospel and another spirit. The truth is this, this is known as the Anti-christ spirit going around in the guise of “christian”.
      2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
      2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
      2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.” Just remember this also: 2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.” So dear girl, I just had to tell you, that you need to be so very careful now days. A true church of the real Jesus in my humble opinion, WOULD NOT be mingling with the heathen worshipers of the New Age, and the other false religions represented at this function. I don’t care how nice they are, and what good works they seem to do. Darkness is darkness. Light is light, and Jesus said to stay in the Light, not to mingle with the darkness! I hope this helps you to see things differently. Thanks, good day to you. s

  • Hi Marie,
    This is just my personal opinion but it is what my heart is telling me is the “He that restrains” is a reference to the restraining hand of God which seems is already being removed. I will not dogmatically defend this point though.
    I believe most end time events will play out in ways that take us by surprise and that it is God’s intent for prophecy to be His mystery lest the “prophecy Mongers” like the vultures would be gathered at the carcass of eschotology for personal gain and recognition. (The Bible book stores are full of them!)

  • Oh silly whore of Babylon, seducing so many with your ways and words. How many will you corrupt?

    Yes, Burning man is a evil place.

    Its residents love openly. They show compassion to strangers. They will offer you the food from their plate without ask of repayment. They will clothe you with their own garments if you are without. They will offer you water if you are thirsty, in the middle of the desert. What are they thinking? Foolish burning man people dont even know they need to keep water to themselves or they will die in the desert.

    They welcome strangers with open arms. Literally, they will hug a stranger. Its common. Most of the people there look like dirty beggars, and many even stink of sweat and dust, yet people walk up to someone they have never met with smiles and warm embraces! You cant even buy things there, because only gifting is allowed. Its evil socialism I tell you!


    I heard of a simple man, who talked of sharing, of love, of compassion, feeding those in need, treating lesser people as if they were great. That dude would have fit right in at burning man. He spoke of not judging people and the amazing compassion of the Divine, that there was so much beauty in the world. He hung out with beggars, prostitutes, and all sorts of filthy people too. At least until they nailed him to a tree.

    Maybe a few of you have heard of this guy too.

    Whore of Babylon indeed.

    • Oh Yah! I think I read something about that in the Bible. You know the same man said I’m a jealous God, have no other God’s before me. Now, I wonder what we should do with that? Would you suggest casting it out or ignoring it?

      • 🙂 Thank you Brother Ron! Folks just don’t seem to get that we are not to mingle with the idol worshipers. Yes, we are to go to the highways and the byways to compel them to come in, to receive salvation… But from the scripture I posted above, I don’t think we are to go into the dens of idol worship, to get them. Please correct me if I was wrong!! Yes these people may be nice in the worldly sense, and may do great and wonderful things for others. But they still are not worshiping the God of the Bible, therefore we are to:2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.” I stand to be corrected if I am wrong on this. Thanks

        • A Big Amen, on that, Sister. Serving God isn’t about a social club, it’s about letting Him be God. We can fellowship with one another and welcome all to come with us, but that doesn’t give them rights to change us. If they fellowship, they will have to do the changing. That is what God requires. For our fellowship is in Him, not in the world. Blessings be multiplied to you, Sister, Sue.

      • Oh dear, you really dont know what you are talking about, do you?

        First of all, no, Christ never said that. Nice try but if you are going to try and quote the bible, at least try and be accurate. You are quoting Exodus. That was Moses.. different guy. Its a little confusing because they both had beards, I know.

        A lot of Christs message, was in contrast to the harsh ways of the old testament and other major Abrihamicaly rooted religions of the time. Roman Catholic church kept those texts because it gave them a easy line to market against. It still snags the simple minded.

        That said, the actions you see at burning man arent just ‘nice’ in a worldly way. Its living, and doing what Christ taught. WITHOUT a man made religion telling them to do so. Its from the heart, from the soul and it is beautiful.

        “Blessed are those who do not see, yet still believe”

        These people walk the path of Christ without even trying, without seeing, without knowing and it is amazing. If you think their actions are less meaningful because they are not part of your church, I would ask you:

        Are you really worshiping the Divine, or are your worshiping the Church.

        There is your false Idol. There, is the Whore of Babylon, for all you end timers.

        But you would have to be pretty brave to really look at that. To really see, that you have been lied to, deceived, that so much of what you have built your life around has been the lies of man.

        God is where God is. The modern church, is a gaudy den of corrupt power mongers, pedophiles, and very little more. When your focus is that church, you miss out of the fact that God is alive and well in the world and more powerful than you like to pretend. Yes, there is fear and horrible things, but there is wonder, and such amazing goodness if you have faith.

        Now adays, the christian church separates man from god, convinces us god is weak and we are in jeprody. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Whore, is right here, and you are its ministers.. and the sad fact is, you dont see it.

        The kindness, and goodness that prevails there, are just that. They dont see, they simply believe. They trust with open hearts, and kindness and love is the norm over hate, and suspicion. Yes, you get a lot of push back from the established religions of the day, becasue they want to convince you that anything good comes from them, and that nothing good is outside of what they tell you.

        I see exactly that here, as with many so called ‘christains’. If you really, REALLY are concerned about the end times.. ask your self..

        Why do these ‘heathens’ walk the path Christ laid out better than you do?

        Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?


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  • 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
    1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

    • Yeeeah…. you kinda are making my point for me. (Really, hiding behind scripture you dont understand isnt working for you. You are going to have to use your brain here.)

      Bottom line here, is you are so afraid, and so wrapped up in a religion, you cant see God, right in front of you.

      Think about that.

      I wont be responding to you anymore, Ron. Your bringing a spork to a gun fight here. Its just not fair.

      Be well. )'(

      • Contrary to your beliefs and vain imagination, this is what God says about those that truly believe in Him.

        2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
        2Ti 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
        2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
        2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

        • Not contrary at all to what I am saying, actually quite in line. It seems to be you ‘Christians’ who are full of shame, fear, and hate.

          You all are just suffering from the mistake that you believe you are right, thats all. Most of you, couldnt be more opposed to what Christ actually taught.

          You love quoting the bible so much…. why are the books he wrote not even in it?

          Just wondering.


          • Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

            1Pe 3:11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
            1Pe 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
            1Pe 3:13 And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?
            1Pe 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness’ sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
            1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
            1Pe 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
            1Pe 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

  • Argo

    Hilarious article!

    To all you fervent Christian commenters, isn’t this exactly what you want? Aren’t you just dying to believe that there are real live Satanists amassing their forces? Otherwise, what fun is it?

  • @spells. that is so sad. I am so thankful, I was able to get my husband, just on my own ability and his for me. We didn’t need the help of spells or the demons who are in them. How sad you can’t find anyone just on your own abilities, and your own personality and your own merits!! You have to have help from evil spirits…sad indeed!! 🙁 I truly feel a sadness for you.

  • Oh, and why to come here and speak?

    Well, people in the burner community mentioned this site as a very negative, dishonest site. Its pretty clear, the person who wrote it did so in a very insulated way, not even understanding the basics of the event.

    (Cargo Cult, btw, was a reference to our society in general.. how we ‘worship’ consumerism, and how we should all be ‘taken away’ from that mentality.. a bit subtle)

    Like many groups that base themselves on lies, they are very protective of their insular perspective, and attack those who speak against it. In this sites defense, it has let contrasting perspectives be posted. (a little suprised about that and impressed).

    Mostly, the people who have sounded off, wanted to speak out against the lies being told. Nothing more.


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